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Seattle Times Reviews Desktop Linux Distros
prostoalex writes "Seattle Times section on Personal Technology compares Xandros and Lindows as two alternatives to Windows for desktop computing. Their verdict: installation - excellent; OpenOffice - good enough; digital cameras, printers and other peripherals - excellent; CD burning - no problems; video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats); digital camcorders - poor; burning audio CDs - poor; Net access and Web browsing - no problems."
I think saying 'burning audio CDs - poor' misstates the verdict in the article, by the way. He had trouble finding how to copy .cda files directly, though burning from mp3s was fine. Odd, since you can just grab them right out of Konqueror IIRC, but still a long way from 'poor'.
"video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats)"
how is mplayer and xine not sufficient? mplayer has OSD progress bars even and quicktimes movies has never been a problem.
Whenever I burn audio CDs and CPU load or harddrive load jumps at least a bit up, the audio track gets broken, stuttering, breaks, noises...? It's not like buffer underrun, a small peak like at opening Xterm, less than 1/4s, is enough to cause problems!
Will CloneCD employ Realtime Linux extensions to prevent that? I'd like to see it!
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
I'm using a nearly new version of K3B and it won't let me burn CDs from Mp3's, and it won't tell me why. This is a pretty serious problem.
I use Gentoo, you insensitive clod!
That summary could be applied to just about any Linux distribution, not just Xandros and Lindows.
Interesting how in the "normal office" uses (i.e. OpenOffice, Net access and Web browsing) Linux is now seen as at least good enough.
From the article, I suspect the author is comparing installation of Win XP *without other apps* against installing Lindows/Xandros *with multiple bundled apps* - this would mean that Lindows/Xandros installs are actually even better than stated given that nobody installs Win XP without also installing other apps afterwards.
Personally, I've found that installing a "home" Windows PC takes about a day, by the time I install Windows, install service packs, critical patches, MS Office (including finding serial numbers) and sundry apps. With Knoppix or Mepis, it takes me about an hour to get to the same point (i.e install OS to disc, install netselect, find fastest host, apt-get update, apt-get upgrade). Furthermore, installing the Windows PC requires me to actually be sitting in front of the PC doing stuff for a sizeable amount of the time, whereas with the Linux distros I spend very little time actually in front of the PC itself.
It can't really be argued that most of the gadgets such as palm's, digital cameras, iPods etc. work easily with linux. Most of them can be made to work with fiddling and some software that someone has hacked together, but at the end of the day the hardware vendors have more resources to throw at the software, and inevitably produce better software that works well with their product. Until they start producing software for linux, its simply too difficult for the average computer user to get things working on a linux desktop. Take my iPod for instance, with windows I just put the CD in, click install and its done - with a GUI that is _far_ better than gtkpod's (although gtkpod is great), whereas with linux you have to install different things, compile them in some cases, and its just much harder work.
THomas
In using linux I've noticed that we have real problems with installing and uninstalling software (just image uninstalling mozilla on many platforms). This would have to be sorted before Linux could be used by the general public.
I hostly feel how ever that once this and other areas such as connecting devices have been delt with Microsoft have a big problem on there hands. Some projects that could sort the
installation/uninstalltion problem include autopackage zero-install and A-A-P
An "average joe" (or a reporter masquerading as one) had a problem. Therefore it's a problem.
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Why were only Xandros and Lindows reviewed? While I don't have a problem with Lindows, unlike most linux users. I think open source linux has better distros available then those two.
;)
My problem with the article is the possibility that a linux newbie might buy Lindows without trying Fedora, SuSE or SlackWare. What's the point of buying a Windows clone just so you can say you switched to Linux?
Although if Lindows were to change its name to something more respectable I might consider trying it out.
Till the gaming industry supports windows, it seems unlikely to oust Windows from the Desktop computing market. Given that these alternatives offer the same functionality, the support for gaming would definitely be where they loose out. And most people(non-slashdot readers) wouldn't want to take the trouble of installing 2 operating systems.
--
Schrodinger 's Cat : wanted dead and alive
I'm not too sure why they selected Xandros or Lindows over Mandrake for such a review.
Unlike either of the two, Mandrake is composed of 100% FLOSS, is freely available, and it simply "kicks ass".
In fact, I'm some what insulted they chose lindows at all. Lindows is a rather craptacular distro, with super annoying marketing practises, and a high yearly fee for people to get additional software.
Sunny Dubey
What I'd really like to see was a free linux distro among the tested versions. I have no beef with commercial linux distributions, but I'll never use one myself. It would be much easier for me to spread the word of the wonders of linux, if there was a free linux that would score as high as these two apparently does.
What I see here is two windows clones based on linux. If linux is so much better than windows, why try so hard to behave like windows?
So, what I'd really like to see is a Linux version that's easy to install, works out of the box, and stands on its own two legs. To the best of my knowledge, there's no such distro yet. Or what? I'd love it for someone to tell me that I'm wrong and point me in the right direction
Underholdning.info
> They can jump from one candy handholding OS to
> another without going through any kind of
> knowledge gathering to do so.
My experience with this type of user (and there's lots of them) is that their Windows boxes generally "clog up with junk" running slower and slower and less and less reliably over time. Depending on the user, in my experience it can be anywhere from 6-12 months before the PC pretty much needs Windows to be reinstalled.
How many users can actually reinstall a Windows machine, plus all their apps, plus recover their data from backups ("what are they?") when that time comes? Judging from the Q&A sections in PC magazines, a lot of people can't manage this.
I think it's actually easier now to reinstall Linux than to reinstall Windows. Consider distros such as Mepis, Knoppix, Morphix - they've got all that most home users will ever need on 1 CD, and the install consists of booting off that CD and either typing one or two commands or clicking an "Install to hard disk" option and clicking "Next" a few times. It's a lot easier to do this than to install a typical Windows box with apps on multiple different CDs and tracking down serial numbers.
Now, if only these users (and here I'm talking about *you*, Mum, Dad and sis!) would remember to take backups from time to time...
It's keeping up a culture of ignorance among computer users.
It's really called, not everyone has the time/desire to learn how to troubleshoot.
Can every car driver troubleshoot a problem with their car? Not even close. A small percentage will know what the problem is and fix it, another small percentage will have an idea of what the problem is and tell the mechanic, and the rest drop it off and say 'It's broken, please fix'
That's how it is with computers. I'm sure any mechanic who loves cars would wish people learned more and took better care of their cars. That's how I see a lot of linux people act.
But the fact is most people aren't going to even consider learning more. That's the beauty of linux. If they at first get Lindows, anyone who is part of the, group of users with a wealth of knowledge that leaves any Joe Average in the dust. will eventually seek out Gentoo, Slack, etc and learn more.
Anyway my point is don't worry about it. There are a lot better reasons for the masses to run linux over Windows other than it being technically better. Something they probably will never really know anyway.
-- taking over the world, we are.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
The conception that the computer is something that only High Priests of the Sun (or IBM) should have access to, is so 60's that it isn't even funny.
Do you need to be an electronics expert to use your TV? Do you even need to understand microwave physics to use your microwave oven? Do you even have any knowledge at all of the chemistry and physics involved in using that detergent in your washing machine? Do you need to be an expert in lasers to operate your DVD player?
Well, then why the heck would an end user need to be a computer expert to use a computer?
And let's talk about the vendor-consumer relationship. If you're a programmer, your job is to deliver what the users want, _not_ to make them have to take a 5 year course in CS to be able to use your stuff. It's your job to deliver value to the customers, _not_ the other way around. Because it's those pesky users that pay for your salary.
And what the users _want_ is an appliance that's as easy and safe to use as their TV or microwave oven. That's it.
The current screw-up where computers are a fragile unstable contraption, and needs arcane rituals to keep it working, is _not_ what the users want.
And the current practice of blaming the users for your program's shortcomings, and calling them names like "lusers" or even "idiots", is a sad mockery of what the vendor-customer relationship was supposed to mean.
If that "clueless luser" had to call tech support to get your program to work, it's _your_ failure. It's that simple.
Just some food for thought.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Let's face it...if a desktop operating system doesn't come with a great thumbnailing preview app, excellent support for streaming media formats, and the ability to survive having the keyboard and mouse suddenly being disconnected to have semen cleaned out, then it really isn't up to scratch. In future, I'd propose to reviewers evaluating desktop Linux systems a few extra categories:
Disabled accessibility: Many operating systems have features designed to make them easier to use for the blind, deaf, or just plain stupid. But can the interface be easily manipulated using one hand only? Can the video player be precisely controlled with only a few fingers, while the other hand is wrapped around the user's own few inches?
Web brower pop-up enabling and tracking: While most users claim to clamour for browsers which block annoying pop-up ads, in reality they crave what these pop-ups are offering: free porn. Does the desktop OS under review offer a browser platform which makes following these pop-up nuggets of jizz-candy easy to follow and track? Can the browser in fact follow its own trail of pop-ups, closing those containing circular links, and launching the download manager when a rare find of actual porn is found?
I'm sure the Slashdot community will have plenty of other ideas to contribute. I look forward to hearing the community's response!
LOL, you're telling some newbie "average joe" to open up and command prompt and start typing in all this gobbley-stuff???
/usr/bin/mp3burn line 414.
user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
bash: mp3burn: command not found
"Hmmmm..." User somehow manages to find and install this app.
user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
*mp3 does not exist or invalid audio file at
"Hmmmm..." User is sorta smart so they figure out they need to be in their mp3 directory. "How do I change directories???" Lets say they figure it out.
user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
cdrecord: Bad Option: speed=XX.
"Uh?? WTF???"
Then they'll get to the dev=x,x,x crap. Hell, I know what I'm doing and I rarely remember the fricking raw scsi device number. Screw that...
Shame...
Ya see, this is the problem. No "normal" user is going to want to use command-line tools like this to burn CDs.
They want to pick tracks from a graphical file manager, hit "burn", and have a fnished CD 10 minutes later.
And why shouldn't they? Though i'm sure someone will try to prove me wrong within minutes of posting this, there's really no reason to have a friendlier interface than the command line for things like this, assuming it's done fairly cleanly. Eschewing graphics in lieu of (percieved) performance increases is all well and good, but not if it locks out potential users.
A step in a nice direction.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
You know, this is a common argument. However, one from someone who obviously doesn't have the facts straight.
1. How compatible is it with games? Many games are made for WindowsXP. You expect OS developers to make them compatible? Why not ask the companies that make these games why they don't make a Linux version. Many companies do make Linux versions of games without a problem. It shouldn't be our job to make software built for one OS for another OS.
2. When will Microsoft make Ximian Evolution compatible with Windows? Oh, they won't? And why not? Because Evolution is not developed by them, and they don't care to port it.
3. Running Linux doesn't mean you stop playing games. I play lots of games: Unreal Tournament, Neverwinter Nights, Enemy Territory. But I prefer playing games on my PS2, as I have a bigger monitor, and a couch to sit on.
So continue using Windows, and continue making excuses why you don't want to switch. If you don't want to switch, by all means, don't. But don't pretend that it has something to do with your "games" that you must have, and place blame on those that shouldn't be responsible. Rather than demanding game companies be compatible with Linux, continue to support the lack of choices.
AC Morons...piss me off.
Jason Lotito
And why shouldn't they?
Let me reply to this as a Mac user. When OS X was being rolled out (over?) the Mac using faithful, it was understood that while the CLI was present, it's use (and understanding) should be regarded as a feature, but never never to be required. To require the use of the CLI for any task was to be considered a failure of the software HCI design.
No software that's installed by default, and in fact, almost no software that wasn't originally Unix based, uses the CLI as a primary tool of interaction.
Now, maybe Linux doesn't want to be as "dumbed down" as OS X--fine. But until Linux is able to be run for day to day operation without the use of the CLI at all it will not gain mass marketshare acceptance. Either live with niche desktop usage, or change the way the apps work so that no CLI is required.
--
$tar -xvf