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Seattle Times Reviews Desktop Linux Distros

prostoalex writes "Seattle Times section on Personal Technology compares Xandros and Lindows as two alternatives to Windows for desktop computing. Their verdict: installation - excellent; OpenOffice - good enough; digital cameras, printers and other peripherals - excellent; CD burning - no problems; video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats); digital camcorders - poor; burning audio CDs - poor; Net access and Web browsing - no problems."

122 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. Audio CD's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Audio CD's are no problem with applications such as K3b. Heck, even regular cdrecord burns audio cd's without a problem.

    1. Re:Audio CD's by antic · · Score: 5, Funny


      Their verdict: installation - excellent; OpenOffice - good enough; digital cameras, printers and other peripherals - excellent; CD burning - no problems; video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats); digital camcorders - poor; burning audio CDs - poor; Net access and Web browsing - no problems.

      ...trying to find a PC for sale that doesn't have Windows on it - problems...

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
    2. Re:Audio CD's by richie2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Finding a white box with no Windows shouldn't be a problem. If you're buying Dell or Gateway it's another story.

      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    3. Re:Audio CD's by ravydavygravy · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTA:

      I couldn't figure out how to save CD songs in their original .cda format for copying onto blank CDs. I've been spoiled by Apple's iTunes' ability to convert and copy in different formats. The software handled MP3s fine, however.

      He couldn't save as .cda, but otherwise thought they were fine apps. The ./story is a wee bit misleading on that front...

      Dave

    4. Re:Audio CD's by ravydavygravy · · Score: 3, Informative

      gtoaster - drag the music files to the "tracks" window pane and when done, press record.

      How hard was that...

    5. Re:Audio CD's by queen+of+everything · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you need to buy a pre-built PC, here's a good one at Wal-Mart . I hope that link works, its kind of long.

      Anyway, I just got one for work, I work for a small company and it is happily running FreeBSD. I haven't really had any problems with it.

      --
      "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the life-long attempt to acquire it." -Albert Einstein
    6. Re:Audio CD's by sharkey · · Score: 5, Informative
      DELL.

      A step in a nice direction.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    7. Re:Audio CD's by Mr_Dyqik · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm, despite having Red Hat as the OS, you still get a copy of Roxio EasyCD creator with the CDRW

      How very useful

    8. Re:Audio CD's by ookaze · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are right but, before Linux 2.6, burning audio CD on the fly could take a very long time, or perhaps even impossible. I ran into issues with burning audio CD on the fly before kernel 2.6. On the fly was so long (was going at 1X instead of 16X), that I was compelled to burn in two steps (extract then burn images).
      Now, it works perfectly. The author also has other issues too, but my guess is he was not using K3B. Because K3B does everything he wanted to do (except extracting in .cda format I think, which is stupid, as WAV is the same in quality).

      I agree with the other appreciations though.
      For camcorder, I agree more on the concern of video softwares, still lacking on Linux.

    9. Re:Audio CD's by cshark · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dell has always been good with linux and other alternative os's. Compaq's on the other hand suck. I spent 900 dollars on a new computer system only to be told by a phone operator in India that the problem I was having with it couldn't possibly be happening. Cock suckers...

      --

      This signature has Super Cow Powers

    10. Re:Audio CD's by the_mad_poster · · Score: 4, Funny

      Imagine if the fire department acted like that.

      "No, sir. We see no possible way that your house could be on fire at this time. I'm quite sure that if you wait a few more moments, you will see that there is no problem at all."

      I'M STANDING IN THE FRONT YARD WATCHING MY BURNING ROOF FALL IN YOU IDIOTS!

      "Sir, are you on drugs?"

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
  2. K3B by dew-genen-ny · · Score: 4, Informative

    Seriously, Audio CDs - Poor ????

    K3B is the best piece of buring software that I have ever used.... makes nero seem pretty shocking....

    --
    tom-george.comBecause geeks rate higher t
    1. Re:K3B by zemoo · · Score: 2, Funny

      > installation - excellent

      So if I can't get it to work, what does that make me? :(
      I think I'll go try Slackware

    2. Re:K3B by budhaboy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm using a nearly new version of K3B and it won't let me burn CDs from Mp3's, and it won't tell me why. This is a pretty serious problem.

    3. Re:K3B by m00nun1t · · Score: 5, Insightful

      An "average joe" (or a reporter masquerading as one) had a problem. Therefore it's a problem.

    4. Re:K3B by bierik · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ever used mp3burn? It's absolutely easy to use. The program burns your mp3s on the fly (ie you don't need storage place on your harddrive for wav files).
      You can burn all mp3's in the current directory by using

      mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3

      By using the option '-c 80:00' you can make sure all songs actually fit onto the cd. mp3burn can also be used to burn other formats such as ogg- or flac-files

    5. Re:K3B by thepoch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What I would like to know is... if this average joe would also complain about difficulty in burning an audio CD with Nero. Maybe the only CD burning software he's tried is Windows Media Player or Roxio Easy CD Creator or something. Or maybe he just uses Nero Express (the easy to use front end of Nero). What I would like to really know is what his reason for difficulty is. Maybe he just wants a simple "wizard" like application that asks him questions. Disclaimer: I've never used K3b, but I hear it's as easy as breathing.

    6. Re:K3B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      LOL, you're telling some newbie "average joe" to open up and command prompt and start typing in all this gobbley-stuff???

      user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
      bash: mp3burn: command not found

      "Hmmmm..." User somehow manages to find and install this app.

      user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
      *mp3 does not exist or invalid audio file at /usr/bin/mp3burn line 414.

      "Hmmmm..." User is sorta smart so they figure out they need to be in their mp3 directory. "How do I change directories???" Lets say they figure it out.

      user@linows:~$ mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3
      cdrecord: Bad Option: speed=XX.

      "Uh?? WTF???"

      Then they'll get to the dev=x,x,x crap. Hell, I know what I'm doing and I rarely remember the fricking raw scsi device number. Screw that...

      Shame...

    7. Re:K3B by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ya see, this is the problem. No "normal" user is going to want to use command-line tools like this to burn CDs.

      They want to pick tracks from a graphical file manager, hit "burn", and have a fnished CD 10 minutes later.

      And why shouldn't they? Though i'm sure someone will try to prove me wrong within minutes of posting this, there's really no reason to have a friendlier interface than the command line for things like this, assuming it's done fairly cleanly. Eschewing graphics in lieu of (percieved) performance increases is all well and good, but not if it locks out potential users.

    8. Re:K3B by Svartalf · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have used K3B for making audio and data discs. You've heard right. I used to think xcdroast was easy- but this has that one beat hands down.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    9. Re:K3B by mhesseltine · · Score: 3, Informative

      I just did exactly that, grab some mp3 files (and a couple .ogg files) and create a new audio CD project. My installed versions of necessary software include:

      • k3b: 0.11.5
      • cdrdao: 1.1.8
      • cdrecord: 2.1a25-dvd
      • dvd+rw-format: 4.7
      • growisofs: 5.13
      • mkisofs: 2.1a24
      • normalize: 0.7.6
      • readcd: 2.1a24
      • sox: 12.17.3
      • transcode: 0.6.11

      I am aware that parts of that (such as dvd+rw tools) wouldn't be necessary. Just pointing out that it can work out of the box. Then again, I'm using Gentoo so "emerge k3b" was all I had to do. Maybe your distro doesn't include sox or normalize as a dependency for k3b, thus it can't use sox to convert the mp3/ogg files to wav.

      --
      Overrated / Underrated : Moderation :: Anonymous Coward : Posting
    10. Re:K3B by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 5, Interesting


      And why shouldn't they?

      Let me reply to this as a Mac user. When OS X was being rolled out (over?) the Mac using faithful, it was understood that while the CLI was present, it's use (and understanding) should be regarded as a feature, but never never to be required. To require the use of the CLI for any task was to be considered a failure of the software HCI design.

      No software that's installed by default, and in fact, almost no software that wasn't originally Unix based, uses the CLI as a primary tool of interaction.

      Now, maybe Linux doesn't want to be as "dumbed down" as OS X--fine. But until Linux is able to be run for day to day operation without the use of the CLI at all it will not gain mass marketshare acceptance. Either live with niche desktop usage, or change the way the apps work so that no CLI is required.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    11. Re:K3B by Hadean · · Score: 4, Insightful


      So what are any of the "average users" who use the same version of K3B supposed to do? Be told they can't burn MP3s? That's completely ridiculous! I'm not an "average computer user" in the least, but why the hell should I be forced to figure out new commands and their options everytime I want to do something? Shouldn't an audio CD burning program, you know, just work? I have more important things to do in my life then read MAN pages or online documentation - I want it to burn the bloody CD so I can get on with whatever I'd prefer to be doing.

      Sorry for the rant, but sometimes I can't stand the arrogance. Of course, now someone is probably thinking to themselves, "Why don't you program something?" or "Why don't you work or so-and-so open source project?" Which is, again, a major problem with the Linux community (at least, some people within it). I don't, because that's not what I'd like to be doing for hours and hours on end?

    12. Re:K3B by the_mad_poster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is, again, a major problem with the Linux community (at least, some people within it). I don't, because that's not what I'd like to be doing for hours and hours on end?

      Soooo... let me get this straight. YOU think it's a problem because OTHER PEOPLE don't want to do the job YOU just said YOU don't want to do but YOU'RE currently griping about?

      Quit your bitching. If you actually thought it was a big enough problem to care about, you WOULD go program something. Shit. You could even *gasp* SELL IT AND MAKE SOME MONEY.

      If you don't want to participate in OSS short of using other people's hard work for free, fine. Stop whining about the shortcomings unless you plan on contributing something though. It would be one thing if you were asking someone nicely to do it, but you're not. You're being a whiny bitch and complaining because nobody ELSE programmed something YOU think would be nice to have.

      Boo hoo. Cry me a river there big fella. I'm really gonna concern myself because you're complaining that nobody else spent their free time making something for free that other people might think would be "nice" to have.

      And before you give me shit about "pushing it to the masses": FOSS is not a commercial venture. The point is to make a useful, open system, not please ever computer-illiterate wonk out there that figured out how to press the power button. You want to get pissy about the CD-burning capbilities in Lindows? Go bitch at Lindows since they're the ones selling the system as "user-friendly", don't direct your ire at the FOSS crowd that has better things to do than worry about ESR's poor "Aunt Tillie" who can't get her goddamn printer to work on a system that wasn't built for her anyway.

      Was that "arrogant" enough for you?

      --
      Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
    13. Re:K3B by PyromanFO · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is probably the most asinine comment about software development I have seen in a long time. Here's the way free software works. You purposely leave out features? Someone comes along and fixes that for you. If you tell them "Hey guys, leave this out so teh users will get l33t and l34rn to h4x0r L0L!" they will ignore you and add them anyway. Why? Because people won't learn the CLI if they don't want to. Computers are tools to be used as we see fit, not the other way around. If a user wants to never touch the CLI it's not your job to try to force them to do otherwise. In fact, if you think it's your job someone will come along and remind you that it's not. That's be beauty of free software, it's a free market.

      So by all means, leave out features to get users to use the l33t CLI. It'll just mean I'll never have to worry about using your software.

    14. Re:K3B by fitten · · Score: 2, Funny

      But that suggestion wasn't meant for normal users! It was meant for Slashdotters.

      LoL... then you need to dumb it up even more and then add a few flames to it... Like this:

      You can burn all mp3's in the current directory by using

      mp3burn -o 'dev=x,x,x speed=XX' *mp3

      Microsoft sux! OSS is teh win!

      I want to marry Linus!


    15. Re:K3B by gbulmash · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I am an 'average joe' (read: never used linux before). I have a nearly dead Win2k 400mhz pentium box. I would like to use that for some tasks here and there and windows is nearly dead (won't allow files to be dragged anymore, won't load the windows update website, etc). I would like to throw linux on it and use it as a secondary machine behind an OSX laptop, but I am not looking for a hobby. I need something I can use, not something that is a challenge to make work.
      First, the Windows problems you're describing don't sound like they're due to the speed of the machine. It sounds like your Windows installation has gotten old and burdened with various gunk and junk you've picked up over the years. There are some clean-up programs that can help with this, but since you seem ready to install a new OS, why not just back up your important data, re-format the hard drive, and re-install Win2k?

      What do you want to do with the machine that you think installing Linux on it will help with, but a clean, well-running installation of Win2k won't?

      I am by no means advocating Windows. But there is a learning curve to any new OS. If you're an "average joe", not looking for a hobby or learning experience, and Win2k worked on your machine before, I'd say re-installing Win2k is going to be a lot easier for you than migrating to Linux.

      - Greg

  3. isn't xandros by derphilipp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    isn't xandros capable of integration into the existing windows directory and can use it to authentificate the users ? That would be a great thing to be able the authentificate users with their windows passwords (without using pam_smb)

    --
    Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.
  4. Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... but could have done with a link to last year's review. It would have been good to see in detail how far we've come.

    I think saying 'burning audio CDs - poor' misstates the verdict in the article, by the way. He had trouble finding how to copy .cda files directly, though burning from mp3s was fine. Odd, since you can just grab them right out of Konqueror IIRC, but still a long way from 'poor'.

    1. Re:Interesting... by gowen · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think that this is it, but you'll need a NYT-style free login.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  5. mplayer and xine by MrSpiff · · Score: 5, Informative

    "video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats)"

    how is mplayer and xine not sufficient? mplayer has OSD progress bars even and quicktimes movies has never been a problem.

    1. Re:mplayer and xine by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm assuming they mean out-of-the-box configuration or available packages. I'm using Mandrake 9.2 and I know that MPlayer isn't included with that. Downloading MPlayer, and getting all the required plugins for different video formats isn't that easy. Well, wouldn't be very easy for Joe Average using Lindows or Xandros

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:mplayer and xine by lintux · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, but to make them work, you have to install some additional codec files which can't be distributed freely with the operating system because the license does not allow this.

    3. Re:mplayer and xine by mrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I guess due to licencing/patent issues that these are not installed by default in the distros? Average user probably does not ./configure && make && make install

    4. Re:mplayer and xine by RDeepak · · Score: 4, Informative

      mplayer does come bundled with Mandrake 9.2 and it did play all my divx's and dvd's just fine.

    5. Re:mplayer and xine by Ploum · · Score: 4, Informative

      In order to see divx or xvid movie on Windows, you have to download and install the codec. Am I wrong ?

    6. Re:mplayer and xine by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Shhh. Let's not point that out already. Windows is the 1.0 normalizer. Linux is like 0.1 in the authors mind I guess...

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    7. Re:mplayer and xine by lintux · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know, the only thing I know about Windows Media Player is that it usually attempts to download the necessary codec, and sometimes it even succeeds and gets the file playing.

      But for QuickTime on Windows, AFAIK the Apple software is really needed, yes. So actually this is not just a Linux problem. The only problem is that you can download Windows QuickTime straight from the Apple website, while they still probably don't distribute Linux MPlayer modules on their site.

      It would be nice to put a little downloader-and-installer for these modules in the fool-proof distributions though.

    8. Re:mplayer and xine by arkanes · · Score: 2, Informative

      While this is true (and cool), the most commonly used codecs (Quicktime, Divx, Xvid) will not be auto-installed. The codec download is actually best for obscure formats that're rarely used, and for the newer versions of WMP.

    9. Re:mplayer and xine by peter_gzowski · · Score: 2, Informative

      I guess you don't have any encrypted DVDs, then. Out of the box, Mandrake does not include libdvdcss, which is needed by mplayer, xine, ogle, and totem to play encrypted DVDs. It may be different now, but I remember that mplayer used to only play quicktime files if you compiled it with special Windows codec support. By default, Mandrake would include a precompiled version without this support.

      --
      "Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
  6. Yeah, audio CD burning... by Vo0k · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Whenever I burn audio CDs and CPU load or harddrive load jumps at least a bit up, the audio track gets broken, stuttering, breaks, noises...? It's not like buffer underrun, a small peak like at opening Xterm, less than 1/4s, is enough to cause problems!

    Will CloneCD employ Realtime Linux extensions to prevent that? I'd like to see it!

    --
    Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    1. Re:Yeah, audio CD burning... by O · · Score: 5, Informative

      Are you running kernel 2.6? I used to have shit like that all the time on 2.4, but it never happens with 2.6. I'd definitely upgrade if you haven't.

      Especially now that all programs that use cdrecord's library (libscg, I think) can write directly to ATAPI burners instead of having to use SCSI emulation. That took care of a lot of the problem for me, too.

      I think they might also try to get real-time priority if you run as root, as there is usually a message complaining about something like that if you don't run them as root. Sudo is your friend.

      --

      1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21 -- Mathematics is the Language of Nature.
    2. Re:Yeah, audio CD burning... by msgmonkey · · Score: 2, Funny

      Are DMA transfers enabled on your CD-ROM drive IDE channel?

    3. Re:Yeah, audio CD burning... by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you have udma for your drives turned on? I know burning at 16x without dma used to be a nightmare [thank ya hdparm!]

      Right now burnign a cd takes next to no cpu time as it's all done off chip ;-)

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    4. Re:Yeah, audio CD burning... by ozbird · · Score: 4, Informative

      ATAPI support isn't quite there yet. If you have a good burn, it works great. If you have a glitch (e.g. with CD-RW media), the drive tends to be locked in some kind of retry loop, and you have to reboot or even power off to clear it. I didn't strike these problems using SCSI emulation. It's no biggy - the more I break, the more data gets fed back to the developers. :-)

  7. Improving Linux by pinkUZI · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I like the table at the bottom of the article best.

    Installation - last year @ 30 minutes versus today @ 5 minutes. I think it was closer to five minutes last year that that, but it is getting harder to remember the days of 45 minute installs. Look at how far we've come!

    --
    You are receiving this message because your browser supports Slashdot Sigs and you have Slashdot Sigs enabled.
    1. Re:Improving Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      Installation - last year @ 30 minutes versus today @ 5 minutes. I think it was closer to five minutes last year that that, but it is getting harder to remember the days of 45 minute installs. Look at how far we've come!

      I use Gentoo, you insensitive clod!

    2. Re:Improving Linux by seasleepy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But the author reviewed Red Hat last year, which offers lots of choices in which packages and programs you want to install (as well as the partitioning and whatnot).

      Xandros and Lindows probably just *give* you a certain subset of packages instead of asking which ones you want, since they're emulating Windows.

  8. Games? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yeah, great, I really care about digital camera support. How compatible is it with games?

    1. Re:Games? by Moraelin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Fortunately", the mis-conception of games being something only for kids is just that: a mis-conception. On the bright side, it helps keep politicians in the business of screaming about how _M_ rated games are some conspiracy to turn 12 year olds into serial killers, because surely noone in the _M_ age bracket would buy a game. But that's the only "bright" side there is to that mis-conception. Actual studies show that the average age for gamers is more like in the mid-to-late twenties nowadays. Like any bell curve, that extends both ways a lot. There are 50+ years old people in there too. (E.g., my father plays Counter Strike.) And that's not even taking into account the millions who play Solitaire or Minesweeper some online web-based Backgammon game or such. Those usually won't say they're hardcore gamers, but guess what? They're still playing a game.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    2. Re:Games? by thenextpresident · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, this is a common argument. However, one from someone who obviously doesn't have the facts straight.

      1. How compatible is it with games? Many games are made for WindowsXP. You expect OS developers to make them compatible? Why not ask the companies that make these games why they don't make a Linux version. Many companies do make Linux versions of games without a problem. It shouldn't be our job to make software built for one OS for another OS.

      2. When will Microsoft make Ximian Evolution compatible with Windows? Oh, they won't? And why not? Because Evolution is not developed by them, and they don't care to port it.

      3. Running Linux doesn't mean you stop playing games. I play lots of games: Unreal Tournament, Neverwinter Nights, Enemy Territory. But I prefer playing games on my PS2, as I have a bigger monitor, and a couch to sit on.

      So continue using Windows, and continue making excuses why you don't want to switch. If you don't want to switch, by all means, don't. But don't pretend that it has something to do with your "games" that you must have, and place blame on those that shouldn't be responsible. Rather than demanding game companies be compatible with Linux, continue to support the lack of choices.

      AC Morons...piss me off.

      --
      Jason Lotito
    3. Re:Games? by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lemme quote the original statement I was answering to: "Fortunately, for the vast majority of grown ups, our priorities are the other way round." Which is just false. Given a choice between:

      1. an OS which can play games, and

      2. an OS which mostly can't

      the vast majority of adults will choose the second. That's what I'm saying.

      And let me give you another reason for it: the majority of adults aren't high paid IT consultants. They might have a computer for the whole family. Not a whole farm of computers, which can be neatly split into dedicated routers, dedicated mail servers, linux desktops and gaming machines.

      So even if you actually think that everyone playing a 3D game is not an adult game yet, guess what? They might have to share that machine with their 40+ year old mom and dad. Hence that machine just got "must run games" as an extra requirement.

      And before you cite that "women over 40 play most games" survey, they're playing word games and puzzle games, not GTA3, which is pretty evidently *not* what the original poster means.

      The gaming world isn't divided that sharply into (A) GTA or Quake 3 clones, and (B) 2d puzzles.

      There are a ton of games, like "The Sims" or "Europa 1400 -- The Guild" that are very graphically intensive, sold very well, have a ton of adult players, and don't have a Linux port. And they're not GTA, they're puzzle games, business sims, or other such.

      And even among puzzle games players, I don't think things are that interchangeable. "Ludicriously well cattered for" would be being able to run his/her favourite games from that genre, not basically "umm, you can play Pingus instead of The Sims." :)

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  9. little respect by shird · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In the first paragraph he suggests that worms, viruses and popups are somehow the fault of and only restricted to Windows, and using Linux will solve all those problems.

    This is not the reason to switch operating systems, it is a reason to use better software, patch your system, have better security practices etc. Articles that start with this proclamation don't warrant reading any further.

    --
    I.O.U One Sig.
    1. Re:little respect by Space+Coyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole point of this article is to show that these linux distributions are fully capable of carrying out every day end-user tasks, and that there currently isn't a problem with worms, viruses, or spyware on Linux. So it most definitely is a compelling reason to give Linux a try, your embracing of a hellish computer experience of patching and babying your computer as opposed to doing real work notwithstanding.

      --
      ___
      Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
    2. Re:little respect by Telex4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the first paragraph he suggests that worms, viruses and popups are somehow the fault of and only restricted to Windows, and using Linux will solve all those problems.

      This is not the reason to switch operating systems, it is a reason to use better software, patch your system, have better security practices etc. Articles that start with this proclamation don't warrant reading any further.


      Given that this article was written for the average computer user, I'd say you're dead wrong. My housemates all run Windows (98/XP) and they have constant problems with viruses and spyware. I help them where I can, but even with me around, they, as your average users, get screwed by it.

      I moved my girlfriend and my family over to GNU/Linux, and they've not had any problems. All of a sudden they don't suffer from worms, viruses, popups and adware.

      Average users simply do not protect themselves from crap like worms, viruses, popups and spyware, for whatever reasons. So you see, it's a perfectly valid reason to switch for many people. If Windows can't protect average users from that crap, average users should be looking elsewhere.

    3. Re:little respect by andih8u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good thing you never have to patch linux to keep it secure and up to date, right? I don't get why all the linux people are always acting like you just install it and its set for the rest of its lifecycle. While it may be inherantly more secure, and un-patched box is still an un-patched box; linux's saving grace is that its average user is typically more savvy than your average windows user is.

      --


      slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
    4. Re:little respect by kzadot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Worms and viruses and popups etc are THE main ways that windows manages to eat away at productivity.

      The authors suggestion that worms, viruses and popups are totally a windows thing, and that they can very effectively be remedied by upgrading to a more thoughtfully designed OS such as linux is in no way false, and definatly suggest that a well written article follows.

      Being able to avoid these annoyances is definatly a MAJOR reason, (but not the only reason) to abandon windows and switch to a more serious, productive work environment such as linux.

      Remaining with windows, and "using better software", "patching your system" and having "better security practices" does make partial sense to me, but if you can recognize some benefit in abandoning IE and Outlook in favor of Mozilla or something (i.e. getting it half right), then whats preventing you from recognizing that this is the same idea behind abandoning windows in favor of linux?

      Apart from you being a windows fanboy that is.

      Do you realize that its the open source development model behind free software such as Mozilla, that makes it so solid and reliable dont you? You do realise that its the peer review process thats lacking in Outlook, IE, and windows itself thats to blame for the shoddy design and poor security of these programs?

      Save yourself hassles now, ditch windows, it really is a crap OS.

  10. Not just those 2 distros by darnok · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That summary could be applied to just about any Linux distribution, not just Xandros and Lindows.

    Interesting how in the "normal office" uses (i.e. OpenOffice, Net access and Web browsing) Linux is now seen as at least good enough.

    From the article, I suspect the author is comparing installation of Win XP *without other apps* against installing Lindows/Xandros *with multiple bundled apps* - this would mean that Lindows/Xandros installs are actually even better than stated given that nobody installs Win XP without also installing other apps afterwards.

    Personally, I've found that installing a "home" Windows PC takes about a day, by the time I install Windows, install service packs, critical patches, MS Office (including finding serial numbers) and sundry apps. With Knoppix or Mepis, it takes me about an hour to get to the same point (i.e install OS to disc, install netselect, find fastest host, apt-get update, apt-get upgrade). Furthermore, installing the Windows PC requires me to actually be sitting in front of the PC doing stuff for a sizeable amount of the time, whereas with the Linux distros I spend very little time actually in front of the PC itself.

    1. Re:Not just those 2 distros by AbbyNormal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      takes about a day

      Here's my breakdown for an average win2k machine. I'm sure some uber nerds could do this blindfolded and quicker, but this is just for comparrison.

      -Win2k vanilla install with basic configurations, 45 minutes (w/reboots).
      -Windows Update Service Packs/patches = 1 hour (cable modem).
      -Average office software (MS OFfice, Firefox, Thunderbird, ZoneAlarm, Symantic Anti-Virus) = 1 hour.

      Heck, you could include the time it takes me to actually build the computer (1.5 hours) and it would not be even close to a day.

      Note: These timeframes are for a home office machine.

      --
      Sig it.
  11. These are nice, but... by Amiga+Lover · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had the chance to play with a Lindows machine in the last month, and it left me impressed with the simplicity, but concerned about the mentality it's going to help keep breeding.

    While not all windows users are the "luser" type, there's a massive amount of Joe Average users who can't troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag. Linux has continued to grow for more than a decade now, and has been doing well without these windows style distributions, and leaving behind a group of users with a wealth of knowledge that leaves any Joe Average in the dust.

    What I'm concerned about is... with an OS like Windows, why would anyone need to learn to troubleshoot? They can jump from one candy handholding OS to another without going through any kind of knowledge gathering to do so. It's keeping up a culture of ignorance among computer users. That's a legacy I think will come back and bite us on the butt.

    1. Re:These are nice, but... by slash-tard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not everyone needs to know how to troubleshoot a computer. Do you know how to do your taxes if you have capital gains and real estate tax write offs,fix your own plumbing? Do you know how to fix your new car, how about read over that lease to make sure your not getting screwed.

      Joe Average is never going to become a computer expert, just listen to how many times they refer to hard drive space as RAM. The best thing any OS can do is minimize problems and make things easy for simple users.

    2. Re:These are nice, but... by darnok · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > They can jump from one candy handholding OS to
      > another without going through any kind of
      > knowledge gathering to do so.

      My experience with this type of user (and there's lots of them) is that their Windows boxes generally "clog up with junk" running slower and slower and less and less reliably over time. Depending on the user, in my experience it can be anywhere from 6-12 months before the PC pretty much needs Windows to be reinstalled.

      How many users can actually reinstall a Windows machine, plus all their apps, plus recover their data from backups ("what are they?") when that time comes? Judging from the Q&A sections in PC magazines, a lot of people can't manage this.

      I think it's actually easier now to reinstall Linux than to reinstall Windows. Consider distros such as Mepis, Knoppix, Morphix - they've got all that most home users will ever need on 1 CD, and the install consists of booting off that CD and either typing one or two commands or clicking an "Install to hard disk" option and clicking "Next" a few times. It's a lot easier to do this than to install a typical Windows box with apps on multiple different CDs and tracking down serial numbers.

      Now, if only these users (and here I'm talking about *you*, Mum, Dad and sis!) would remember to take backups from time to time...

    3. Re:These are nice, but... by RGautier · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not everyone has the time it takes to learn about computers, nor do they care to. I know that I, for one, won't take the time to rip apart my VCR or DVD player when it stops working. Instead, I'll just go buy another one. At $300 for a computer with Lindows on it, I'd say that we're rapidly approaching the point of having people buy computers just as they would buy a DVD player or VCR, or toaster, or microwave.
      I don't think you're right in your assessment of this coming back to bite us in the butt. Indeed, you're missing one of the points, that those of us with skills will continue to be the handyman of tomorrow. What we need to worry about is when computers get cheap enough to throw away, rather than fix. That's when the handyman/fix-it shop will no longer be viable, and when our jobs will be in danger.

    4. Re:These are nice, but... by aliens · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's keeping up a culture of ignorance among computer users.

      It's really called, not everyone has the time/desire to learn how to troubleshoot.

      Can every car driver troubleshoot a problem with their car? Not even close. A small percentage will know what the problem is and fix it, another small percentage will have an idea of what the problem is and tell the mechanic, and the rest drop it off and say 'It's broken, please fix'

      That's how it is with computers. I'm sure any mechanic who loves cars would wish people learned more and took better care of their cars. That's how I see a lot of linux people act.

      But the fact is most people aren't going to even consider learning more. That's the beauty of linux. If they at first get Lindows, anyone who is part of the, group of users with a wealth of knowledge that leaves any Joe Average in the dust. will eventually seek out Gentoo, Slack, etc and learn more.

      Anyway my point is don't worry about it. There are a lot better reasons for the masses to run linux over Windows other than it being technically better. Something they probably will never really know anyway.

      --
      -- taking over the world, we are.
    5. Re:These are nice, but... by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The conception that the computer is something that only High Priests of the Sun (or IBM) should have access to, is so 60's that it isn't even funny.

      Do you need to be an electronics expert to use your TV? Do you even need to understand microwave physics to use your microwave oven? Do you even have any knowledge at all of the chemistry and physics involved in using that detergent in your washing machine? Do you need to be an expert in lasers to operate your DVD player?

      Well, then why the heck would an end user need to be a computer expert to use a computer?

      And let's talk about the vendor-consumer relationship. If you're a programmer, your job is to deliver what the users want, _not_ to make them have to take a 5 year course in CS to be able to use your stuff. It's your job to deliver value to the customers, _not_ the other way around. Because it's those pesky users that pay for your salary.

      And what the users _want_ is an appliance that's as easy and safe to use as their TV or microwave oven. That's it.

      The current screw-up where computers are a fragile unstable contraption, and needs arcane rituals to keep it working, is _not_ what the users want.

      And the current practice of blaming the users for your program's shortcomings, and calling them names like "lusers" or even "idiots", is a sad mockery of what the vendor-customer relationship was supposed to mean.

      If that "clueless luser" had to call tech support to get your program to work, it's _your_ failure. It's that simple.

      Just some food for thought.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    6. Re:These are nice, but... by SoTuA · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That's how it is with computers. I'm sure any mechanic who loves cars would wish people learned more and took better care of their cars. That's how I see a lot of linux people act.

      No, because of a lot of factors:

      People who don't take good care of their cars don't boggle down the internet or send me spam.

      People don't expect mechanics to work for free, or assume their car malfunctions because it's a car.

    7. Re:These are nice, but... by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      how about the simple fact that if I backup my /home/user directory I can drop it back in a fresh linux install and not lose a damned thing... this is 100% impossible under windows. I have to export the user profile and the hope that I can import the damned thing... most of the time it fails, and it never saves everything the users wanted.. linux forces the user by DEFAULT that everything must be saved in their user directory. windows let's you plop them anywhere... espically in the typical corperate domain setup where most everyone runs as administrator or power user because the IT department doesnt want to piss off the Executive staff or are stuck with horribly written vertical apps that haven't been re-written cince windows 98.

      Linux as the desktop in corperate is an absolute dream for the IT department and the users.

      management and care of a linux desktop machine is at least an order of magnitude easier than a windows machine... and it get's even easier if you run everything terminal server style with diskless workstations.... something that is near impossible with windows without spending 30 times the cash on licensing and specalized software and hardware.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    8. Re:These are nice, but... by beforewisdom · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What I'm concerned about is... with an OS like Windows, why would anyone need to learn to troubleshoot? They can jump from one candy handholding OS to another without going through any kind of knowledge gathering to do so. It's keeping up a culture of ignorance among computer users. That's a legacy I think will come back and bite us on the butt.
      If you substituted "car" for "OS" in your paragraph above you would say that is how it should be.

      My point will be the same idea.

      Most people only want to use computers, not become computer enthusiasts or computer hobbyists.

      1985 is calling, they want their attitude back :)

      Steve

    9. Re:These are nice, but... by RoLi · · Score: 3, Informative
      What I'm concerned about

      Why are you concerned?

      The beauty of Linux is that it comes in so many flavours and variants, so nobody forces you to use Lindows.

      If security on Lindows desktops will ever be an issue (so the user is running as root, so what? Right now there aren't any viruses or worms on Linux) then I'm sure Lindows will adapt and change the defaults to no longer run as root. But since there is much, much fewer piracy on Linux, I have my doubts that even if everybody would run as root, a virus could propagate. Because most distros ecourage the user not to run as root, the chances of a virus actually propagating is even slimmer.

      But it's irrelevant because it won't be your problem anyway, so why should you be worried?

      There is a need for extremely dumbed down Linux distributions, and Lindows fills that need.

      The nature of OpenSource is that it can be customized to every need. If there is a need for a run-always-as-root distribution, then somebody will satisfy that need. That's the beauty of it. Nobody can force anything down the user's throats.

  12. Still... stuff works in windows by thegraham · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It can't really be argued that most of the gadgets such as palm's, digital cameras, iPods etc. work easily with linux. Most of them can be made to work with fiddling and some software that someone has hacked together, but at the end of the day the hardware vendors have more resources to throw at the software, and inevitably produce better software that works well with their product. Until they start producing software for linux, its simply too difficult for the average computer user to get things working on a linux desktop. Take my iPod for instance, with windows I just put the CD in, click install and its done - with a GUI that is _far_ better than gtkpod's (although gtkpod is great), whereas with linux you have to install different things, compile them in some cases, and its just much harder work.

    THomas

    1. Re:Still... stuff works in windows by PSC · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the hardware vendors have more resources to throw at the software, and inevitably produce better software that works well with their product

      Depends.

      A friend of mine bought a Sony Cybershot (which is certainly no cheap digicam at over $1000) and the software that came with it is outrageously bad and just plain stupid. A special, severely crippled download software instead of using Explorer on the USB storage device; a viewer that behaves irregular at best (zooming into previews and the like - looks really great).

      Anyway, nowadays more often than not, the software that comes with your favourite device is outperformed in both function and usability by independent third-party software (be it Open Source or Closed).

      --
      --- The light at the end of the tunnel is probably a burning truck.
    2. Re:Still... stuff works in windows by JollyFinn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People may learn apt-get install to get applications but there is ONE BIG CATCH! They need to know that gtkpod is the application for that purpose. I have used linux from y2k and thats news to me. I could google and find out if I needed. But will average joe do it? NO. Heck there is probably some really good applications on tasks I wan't to do. But there is 10 crappy choises from which to choose. And I only wan't one that works. And know the name. Unless you get something along the way. ap-get install "connecting mobilephone to PC" And that "" could be parsed as any task user wan'ts or something to identify anything, apt-get is not for average Joe. How to make it a lot easier task. First put a list of commonly used apps for different task in a GUI installer with detailed descriptions what the applications is all about and top choises for different tasks. Now people could actually select what they need, and easy gui interface. Not needing guessing what application works for what. Now besidest that there should be something for "Windows power user" friendly thing like ability to search descriptions for key words. Like handset, or something. And common assumption for many tasks is that "if I cannot do it in gui its hard and there for impossible for me to do.".

      --
      Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
  13. One important thing by omar.sahal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In using linux I've noticed that we have real problems with installing and uninstalling software (just image uninstalling mozilla on many platforms). This would have to be sorted before Linux could be used by the general public.
    I hostly feel how ever that once this and other areas such as connecting devices have been delt with Microsoft have a big problem on there hands. Some projects that could sort the
    installation/uninstalltion problem include autopackage zero-install and A-A-P

    1. Re:One important thing by Imperator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's completely distro-dependent. A good package manager makes installing and uninstalling software easy. Whenever I hear someone complain about packaging on Linux, I ask them what distro they're using, and if they've considered trying alternatives...

      --

      Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
    2. Re:One important thing by mrbnsn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      apt-get install package
      apt-get --purge remove package

      It's never failed me yet. Since the two reviewed distributions are Debian under the hood, the respective package management tools should work every bit as well.

  14. Why those distros? by Hiigara · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why were only Xandros and Lindows reviewed? While I don't have a problem with Lindows, unlike most linux users. I think open source linux has better distros available then those two.

    My problem with the article is the possibility that a linux newbie might buy Lindows without trying Fedora, SuSE or SlackWare. What's the point of buying a Windows clone just so you can say you switched to Linux?

    Although if Lindows were to change its name to something more respectable I might consider trying it out. ;)

    1. Re:Why those distros? by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's the point of buying a Windows clone just so you can say you switched to Linux?
      to not get hit by the next windows worm

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  15. Partioning by p_millipede · · Score: 2, Interesting
    He mantions about some of the limited features of some distributions in terms of paritioning - that they normally only offer a complete wipe or split-in-two, but still need to reinstall your alternate OS. I have NEVER found this.

    When I first ever did a Linux install (about six years ago, with very little knowledge of partitions or anything) I went with manual partitioning. It's not hard. And every recent distro that I've used allows you to do advanced, manual partitioning from within the installer (graphical or otherwise) - you just need to choose the right option. Personally, I normally run fdisk or cfdisk to create the partitions and then specify how to mount them in the installer.

    By manually partitioning, you can come up with some seriously wierd multi-boot configurations. My most complicated set up was: /hda1 - FAT32 - 8GB - Win98 / shared data
    /hda2 - NTFS - 10GB - Win2K
    /hda3 - ext2 - 100MB - /boot partion (for linux)
    /hda4 - extended partition, containing:
    /hda5 - ext2 - 10GB - / partition
    /hda6 - ext2 - 2GB - /home partiton
    (/usr etc stored in / partion)
    /hda7 - Swap partition - 500MB
    /hda8 - BeFS - 2GB - BeOS5 personal edition

    My point is really that to set up such a structure using fancy tools is rather difficuly - the tools keep trying to get in the way. fdisk is the way to go.

    The system above used a number of boot loaders to get it going. The MBR had XOSL with an option for each OS in it, and used keyboard commands within it to control subsequent boot loaders. Win98 and Win2k booted by Win2K boot loader, installed on the Win98 partition. LILO on /hda5 and the Be Boot loader /hda8. I would never let an automatic tool anywhere near it. The only reason I don't still have that configuration is because I tried using Partition Magic on it once (to test it for a friend, I then recommended against it on the grounds that is screwed up my system) and learnt my lesson.

    1. Re:Partioning by Vo0k · · Score: 2, Informative

      they normally only offer a complete wipe or split-in-two, but still need to reinstall your alternate OS

      About the only "proprietary" software I use rather frequently, and on Windows.
      PowerQuest Partition Magic, allows resizing and moving of existing partitions without damaging the contents. Allows you to make room for Linux without breaking Windows. I always first repartition the drive from Windows with it, then boot Linux installer and skip repartitioning, just format and mount Linux partitions. Unless of course it's a dedicated Linux box :)

      Does anyone know of some similar software for Linux? Mandrake people supposedly developed something alike, but with broken NTFS support in the kernel, I doubt it could work.

      --
      Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    2. Re:Partioning by p_millipede · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The above system originally had a single FAT32 partion, which I split using Fips (sorry this is a DOS program, not Linux - there might be a Linux version though). Fips enables you to split a FAT partion in two, provided to defragment it first. I then manually created the rest of the partitions.

      When I used partion magic on it, it got confused (or something) by the complicated set up and screwed up the partion table, making the system unbootable. Fortunatly, I had backups of the data, but not the entire disc, so I could restore my documents but had to re-install the OSes, resulting in a new system layout (one without BeOS).

  16. What about Gaming? by unknown_host · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Till the gaming industry supports windows, it seems unlikely to oust Windows from the Desktop computing market. Given that these alternatives offer the same functionality, the support for gaming would definitely be where they loose out. And most people(non-slashdot readers) wouldn't want to take the trouble of installing 2 operating systems.

    --
    Schrodinger 's Cat : wanted dead and alive

    1. Re:What about Gaming? by gowen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Gamer vastly over estimates importance of gaming in home / office desktop PC market. Film at 11.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    2. Re:What about Gaming? by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Funny

      And that's just people I know.

      You need to get out more...

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  17. porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    porn surfing is better with Linux and I'll say why.

    Most of the times I sign up to a website only to find that I can't download the videos. I have to watch it streaming from the Internet. This is of course very fraustrating because it is slow and it forces me to keep my membership. Usually Media Player is the default player so it opens it and obeys the website's command and streams.

    Programs like Download Accelerator help a little, but the sites have gotten smarter as well.

    Now with Mozilla and some video program running I can bypass their system and usually get to save the videos. If not, usually linux video player save the video on disk in the cache somewhere and those can be easily recovered.

    Now the only thing I'm trying to get around is the annoying link to a page that contains the picture you want to view, so there is no way to leech the site of pictures. I'm too lazy to write a program to crawl... and wget doesn't do what I want to do sometimes.

    Oh well. It's all about choices I guess.

  18. Why not Mandrake ? by phoxix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not too sure why they selected Xandros or Lindows over Mandrake for such a review.

    Unlike either of the two, Mandrake is composed of 100% FLOSS, is freely available, and it simply "kicks ass".

    In fact, I'm some what insulted they chose lindows at all. Lindows is a rather craptacular distro, with super annoying marketing practises, and a high yearly fee for people to get additional software.

    Sunny Dubey

    1. Re:Why not Mandrake ? by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd think you should send that question to the editor's desk over at the Seattle Times, rather than in addition to posting it here. Maybe they'll post a follow-up article. More linux coverage in mainstream periodicals is a good thing.

      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  19. No free version? by Underholdning · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What I'd really like to see was a free linux distro among the tested versions. I have no beef with commercial linux distributions, but I'll never use one myself. It would be much easier for me to spread the word of the wonders of linux, if there was a free linux that would score as high as these two apparently does.
    What I see here is two windows clones based on linux. If linux is so much better than windows, why try so hard to behave like windows?
    So, what I'd really like to see is a Linux version that's easy to install, works out of the box, and stands on its own two legs. To the best of my knowledge, there's no such distro yet. Or what? I'd love it for someone to tell me that I'm wrong and point me in the right direction

  20. Serial numbers are easy to find by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    They're right on the back of the CD jewel case, usually on an orange sticker about 3 inches across.

    1. Re:Serial numbers are easy to find by darnok · · Score: 2

      How many people can actually lay their hands on those CD cases when the time comes? Also, a surprising number of people, when asked to enter a serial number for the first time, don't think to look at *the back* of a CD case to find it.

    2. Re:Serial numbers are easy to find by TheVidiot · · Score: 3, Funny

      Not too many, actually, when they got Windows though eDonkey.

    3. Re:Serial numbers are easy to find by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I thought they were normally written in Magic Marker across the front of the CD, usually with a little warning about "Do not quote this number in any dealing's with Microsoft technical support".

  21. Can't we focus on something else now? by suso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that the time for linking to every article that talks about Linux or compares it with Windows has passed. Linux is becoming mainstream. The time has come to focus about other aspects of it on slashdot.

  22. Real good by piquadratCH · · Score: 4, Funny

    > The good folks at RealNetworks have an opportunity
    > to become a de facto standard but they should run
    > right out of the box

    I never thought to see "good folks" and RealNetworks so close in one sentence...

  23. Bogus Conclusion: "Almost like Windows" by wehe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Author Paul Andrews comes to this conclusion:" Lindows has a slicker interface and emulates Windows so well that it repeats several of my pet Windows peeves. Xandros' user-interface has more obvious Linux legacy to it but shouldn't stymie the first-timer." These are the usual conclusions in our days, deciding whether is something worth to use or not, by having a look at the outside (here the interface). That's one of the reasons of the "success" of Microsoft operating systems. They have put a lot of work and money in their style-guides.

  24. Yeah, but how does it compare for porn? by oingoboingo · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's all very well and good to compare Linux to the Mac and Windows for 'common' tasks such as editing a Microsoft Word document, connecting a digital camera, or installing a printer. But what about a task that many (if not all) Slashdot readers use their computers for on a daily basis: downloading, archiving, sorting, viewing, and ejaculating to gigabytes and gigabytes of internet pornography.

    Let's face it...if a desktop operating system doesn't come with a great thumbnailing preview app, excellent support for streaming media formats, and the ability to survive having the keyboard and mouse suddenly being disconnected to have semen cleaned out, then it really isn't up to scratch. In future, I'd propose to reviewers evaluating desktop Linux systems a few extra categories:

    Disabled accessibility: Many operating systems have features designed to make them easier to use for the blind, deaf, or just plain stupid. But can the interface be easily manipulated using one hand only? Can the video player be precisely controlled with only a few fingers, while the other hand is wrapped around the user's own few inches?


    Web brower pop-up enabling and tracking: While most users claim to clamour for browsers which block annoying pop-up ads, in reality they crave what these pop-ups are offering: free porn. Does the desktop OS under review offer a browser platform which makes following these pop-up nuggets of jizz-candy easy to follow and track? Can the browser in fact follow its own trail of pop-ups, closing those containing circular links, and launching the download manager when a rare find of actual porn is found?

    I'm sure the Slashdot community will have plenty of other ideas to contribute. I look forward to hearing the community's response!

    1. Re:Yeah, but how does it compare for porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Although I do see the humor in your post, I've found that *nix is far better suited for pornography.

      Slideshow of all porn found in last week:

      find ~/.pr0n -type f -name \*.jpg -a -ctime -7 -print | xargs xv -random -wait 7
      Slurp a site:
      for i in `seq 1 50` ; for j in `seq 1 15` ; do wget http://some.site/gallery$i/image$j.jpg -O whatever-$i-$j.jpg ; done ; done
      Find duplicate images:
      find ~/.pr0n -type f -exec md5sum {} \; | sort | awk '{print $2, $1}' | uniq -f 1 -d
      mplayer/mencoder can easily concatenate a series of wmvs when a pornographer splits them up. Mozilla has good gesture support and the Magpie extension is meant specifically for efficiently snarfing image galleries. glitter is excellent at slurping newsgroups and konqueror is quite good at organizing images by thumbnail (and there are quite a few GNOME/KDE image organizers available as well). mplayer precisely fits your criteria for keyboard control.

      In fact, *nix is so superior to Windows in this regard that when my main home box had to remain in Windows for a longer period of time (doing quite a bit of Windows programming lately), I needed to download cygwin + X11 + xv + mozilla + mplayer in order to keep from rebooting constantly.

    2. Re:Yeah, but how does it compare for porn? by Lord+of+Ironhand · · Score: 2, Funny
      apt-get install pornview
      (no seriously, it exists...)

      On a slightly more serious note, gqview (viewer) mplayer (movies) and pan (binary news downloads) would probably satisfy (oops did I just say that?) your requirements quite well. A slightly hesitant "have fun" would probably be in place here...

  25. digital camcorders... by unknown_host · · Score: 4, Informative

    camstream is a nice collection of tools for webcams and other video-devices that uses video4linux2. Combining it with some Image Processing Library(gimp?) and a fancier gui should make it a decent enough tool.

  26. Linux ok for Linux Penguins by gelfling · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Isn't all this pulse checking getting boring already?

    Hi we're a bunch of nerdy Linux geeks and Linux is rilly rilly kewl and 1337 to install (which I guess as an end consumer you're going to do a LOT of as a matter of course in your normal purchase cycle?)

    So trust us, here's a bunch of distros that are all only about 40% harder to install and run than Windows and when you're done they will run more or less 80% of what you originally intended Windows to run more or less 90% as well.

    1. Re:Linux ok for Linux Penguins by tomstdenis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Um you got it right basically.

      Linux distros are hard to install as ice fishing is hard for warm climate southerners. Wrong market.

      That and the average computer user could just be better served with a typewriter and a vic-20 or something ;-)

      What gets me about articles like this are the summary judgements that will be based off it... E.g. well some magazine jerk said Linux is hard to use. Must be true. Ok school, let's renew your assraping windows licenses!

      I mean seriously.... specially at vocational schools where people are training to be professionals why not use professional tools and not he "user enabled" ms ones?

      For example, writing a manuscript? Great, use TeX not Word. Developing a program? Great use a free multi-platform C compiler [e.g. GCC] not some single platform Intel friendly MSVC [which is just huge bloatware ... 6 CDs?], etc, etc, etc.

      There are tonnes of quality free software out there that professionals of different fields can use. They're just too lazy to put up with development. Sure gimp isn't photoshop but I'm sure if Gimp had more active feedback [and say donations] the authors would be really motivated to get 2.0 out the door. At the end of the day Gimp is free and the professionals [say artists or whatever] are rewarded with a tool they don't have to re-license with every computer/new year, etc..

      Of course all of this requires a bit of long-term thinking and not the usual standard issue 9 second knee-jerk reaction americans come standard with.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  27. Not bogus at all by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, I don't see that as bogus at all.

    The way to interact with an application is through its interface. When someone uses your program, they don't directly work with your clever code, they work with its interface.

    The exact same product, with the exact same capabilities, can be a breeze to use or a bloody nightmare that needs you to spend days learning how to even get started. The difference between the two is the interface.

    The thing is: Joe Average doesn't have a Ph.D. in CS, and shouldn't need one. He just wants, say, his pictures copied from his shiny new digital camera to his hard drive, and from there archived to CD-R. He also wants to send some of them per email to the kids, and to print some on his shiny new ink jet printer.

    And he wants all that done with the absolute minimum of fuss and frustration. He doesn't want to learn new skills, he doesn't want to gain a ton of clue in how to compile the kernel and 20 libraries, and he doesn't find it great fun to experiment and tweak either. He just wants the job done. That's it.

    Which means: he'll want some obvious buttons to click on. Which means: a GUI. That's what he'll interact with. And it's the GUI that can make this job a no-brainer 5 minute exercise, or a 7 day nightmare that includes reading outdated, incomplete and obscure man pages.

    _If_ that 7 day nightmare is the best that you can offer him, he doesn't even want your product. It doesn't matter what cool hacks happen in your application, it doesn't matter how you cleverly coded your own uber-efficient image processing library to deal with your files. What matters is that he had to go through a lot of inconvenience to get a simple job done.

    Hence, reviews that start with the surface aren't bogus, nor a bad idea.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  28. Seattle Times Disses Microsoft by alteran · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The opening paragraph:

    "Don't you wish some days you could just toss that Windows computer out the, er, window and try something else? Something where viruses and worms weren't everyday occurrences, where you didn't have to suffer through lockups and crashes every few days? Where the screen wasn't cluttered with pop-up ads and strange spyware programs, snooping on your every move?"

    I find it interesting that the newspaper on Microsoft's home turf, where Microsoft pumps hundreds of millions (if not billions) into the local economy, feels free to speak so negatively about MS software. If Seattle isn't full of passionate Microsoft devotees, what city is?

    If anyone here reads the Seattle Times, is this typical?

    --
    Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
    1. Re:Seattle Times Disses Microsoft by RoLi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      People are just getting tired of Microsoft.

      Microsoft promised that WinNT/2K/XP was more secure than Win9x. Well the biggest worm epidemies ever all have stricken WinNT/2K/XP, so while in theory it might contain some nice security features, it's a lot less secure than Win9x in real life.

      Microsoft also promised that Win2K could run headless (without graphics card and monitor), it doesn't. Then they promised that Windows .NET server aka Win2003 could run headless, it doesn't.

      Now they promise that Longhorn will include so great features that it will set the world on fire. (and it will probably also run headless, although I haven't heard that promise from MS for a while), but in the end it will turn out to be a minor upgrade at a hefty price.

      Just like there are lots of mentally slow people running around firmly beliefing that WinXP is more secure than Win98, there are lots who still believe Microsoft's proclamations. But some have stopped believing them.

    2. Re:Seattle Times Disses Microsoft by MatthewB79 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, it's not as typical as people from all over assuming that Microsoft Corp. has some kind of stranglehold on the culture and community in and around Seattle. I've lived in Redmond for about 2 years now (girlfriend works for MS, she uses Linux almost exclusively). As I tell everyone who asks, you're probably going to meet many people who work for Microsoft, Nintendo, Eddie Bauer, Safeco, Boeing, etc. in everyday life here. Many of them are free-thinking people who use alternative OS's. Some of them are total cult of Microsoft weirdos. To answer your question, this isn't the first time the Seattle papers have published material that puts down Microsoft.

    3. Re:Seattle Times Disses Microsoft by aschlemm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As someone that lives in the greater Seattle area this isn't unheard of the Seattle Times. They are the conservatiev newpaper here as I believe they supported Bush for president and the war in Iraq. Seattle is quite liberal though and so you can easily find liberal Republicans here as well. One always thinks of conservative papers supporting big business no matter what but over the years but the Times doesn't always follow that sort of mantra.

      While it's easy to find someone that either works or has worked at Microsoft not everyone has good things to say about Microsoft here in Seattle. I worked at one small company in Bellevue (On the eastside of Lake Washington from Seattle) and there were rumours going around that Microsoft was looking at us as a potential acquisition and I heard more than one ex-Microsoft person say that they wouldn't be continuing with the company if Microsoft bought us.

      Keep in mind that we have a few large companies here in Seattle that use other operating systems besides Windows. Amazon.com is here and they're a big user of Linux now and Boeing is still rather large here and they've always had a lot of large Unix servers so it's not a Windows only world around here. I can safely say I can wear my Tux hat and walk around the streets of Seattle and not get jumped by roving bands of pro-Microsoft thugs. I'm also rather suprised about how many people recognize Tux these days. I've even had several people that work in a few of the various coffee houses I frequent around Seattle immediately recognize Tux and they've related to me how they're running Linux at home now.

  29. Let's not start saying the same things again. by caluml · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Before we jump on the bandwagon and start shouting "But I can burn audio CDs really easily" - we should remember that the people reviewing this are our target audience. Sure, **we** can do it, but they had problems with it, and hence it's these problems that we should be addressing.

  30. Not good business by Maskirovka · · Score: 3, Funny
    Seattle Times Reviews Desktop Linux Distros

    And 10,000 Microsoft employees cancel their subscriptions in protest to their communist tendancies the next day.

    It's a joke. Laugh.

  31. Uhh just a minute by Epistax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How well did they rate "Using non-standard hardware." Including printers, laptops, and virtually unknown brands of cdroms, ethernet devices, win modems (Ok maybe this one doesn't matter much anymore), windows keyboards (how much function can you get out of those functions), etc.

    I'd like to know how well speed step performs in linux. Can a laptop hibernate if it needs to? On my i8k in Mandrake it allows either battery or external power. If I plug in / detach the cord, the computer freezes (although the battery does kick in because whatever was on screen stays on screen). I can only assume everything worked by the high ratings given. Also I can assume from the ratings that the system instantly recognizes when any new USB/Firewire/PCMCIA device is hotswapped, and in most cases can identify it. Right? I mean, I did see the word "excellent" so I think it should at least be equal with Windows.

  32. My frustrations by rajeev_king · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recently installed Fedora Core-1 on my new machine. Always I have a habit on VideoCD on my computer and thought I will try it with GNU/Linux. I came to know there are two applications on Linux to view that ie Xine and Mplayer).I dont have internet at my home ,so I downloaded xine and mplayer from my friend's machine and put it in my flash drive.Now my probelm started.When I plugged in my USB drive ,fedora didnt respond to any keyoard events on the first time. Second time when I booted it was shown as a drive.And it happened for the same sequence every time. I came to know Fedore Core -1 doesnt support hot plugin as Win 2K ,but it is supported in latest linux kernel (2.6 >).When I tried to install xine and mplayer it showed endless dependencies,and finally I succeeded in installing xine.While watching a movie ,I felt sound is ahead of picture ! and finally I had to stop that after I started getting echo .And picture quality is not as good in Windows Media Player(full screen mode).

    What I am trying to say ,even for some what experianced users,sometimes getting things working can be nightmare.

  33. Yeah.. by DarcSeed · · Score: 3, Funny

    I was like, burning some audio cds from my mp3s.. and it was like BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP, and I was like, what happened? And it went BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP again and the next thing I knew, my mp3s were gone. They were some really good mp3s.

    --
    Best death? What, die from a naked lady avalanche?
  34. Long term reviews by 4lex · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why are there always "installation and first steps" reviews? Sure, you have to install the systems, and sure, you have to burn CDs or write letters... but I would like some mid-to-long term review, including differences with Windows or Mac OS X regarding security problems, upgrades (two fields where linux should win hands down), integration of new hardware (which I suppose could be way more problematic), installation of new programs (which could be either way)...

    I think long-term reviews would be far more interesting to convince people of the possiblities of the system in the long term, as a stable working environment, not just as a weekend-hobby.

    --
    My journal. Mainly about freedom.
  35. RIAA and MPAA are pro-Linux !!! by gosand · · Score: 2, Funny
    video playback - could be better (with more progress bars and support for Apple's formats); digital camcorders - poor; burning audio CDs - poor;

    This just in... the RIAA and the MPAA are now strongly supporting Linux as their OS of choice.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  36. Re:Another good Desktop : Gentoo. by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "If you are not a joe user but you still want a good destkop OS to get your work done you should try the power of Gentoo."

    To start with the punchline: actually that should IMHO read "if you're a masochist and want the computer equivalent of a kick in the teeth, you should try the power of Gentoo." Yep, that's some real power in that kick.

    "Its fast, modular, not too hard to install (just read the docs, it holds your hand) and free."

    Heh.

    I was recently persuaded by some co-workers to try Gentoo on my Athlon 64 system. Now the thing that should have made me think twice is that said co-workers are hardy fronteer men. Real Men (TM) who edit source code in vi, will only configure anything with vi, and use a text mode browser. In fact, they start X and KDE to get a news ticker, then fire up xterm and lynx to browse the web.

    I guess at home they sleep on a heap of rusty nails too, because using a bed would be too much like those lusers who want comfort. I guess the kind of people who, back in their age, had to walk 5 miles barefoot through the snow to school. Uphill _both_ ways. And they _liked_ it.

    So I try it too. The first impression is that the install CD dumps me to a text mode prompt, with only a text file and links2 as a text-mode browser to download and compile the rest of it.

    _That_ primitive. In fact, the only way to be more primitive would be to make me feed punched paper tape into the computer and toggle switches on the front pannel to make it load. Like in the good old days in the 70s.

    The philosophy of Gentoo seems to be "why automate something, when it can be done by hand in text mode?"

    E.g., it has a tool to find the best mirrors, but they don't even let you use it until later. First you have to use the text mode browser to go to their site and manually find a mirror to download stuff.

    E.g., it has the tools to configure the network, but it's too stupid to launch them automatically. No, I have to read that text and launch them by hand.

    E.g., if it knows that I'll have to create this and that directory and chroot, why the heck can't it provide a nice front-end that does that for me?

    E.g., if it has 3 syslog demons total that it can install, and a recommended one... why can't that be on a nice page with 3 radio buttons? Why do I have to launch scripts by hand just to choose 1 option out of 3? No, seriously. I want to know.

    The whole thing except maybe configuring and compiling the kernel could jolly well be automated. But no, let's be Real Men (TM) and do that by hand instead. Just having a user-friendly ncurses front-end wouldn't be macho enough, I guess.

    And what's the point of the whole exercise spanning several days of recompiling everything? Just to be able to put my very own "-O3" in the compiler flags? (Which half the ebuilds will tone back down to -O2 or -O anyway.)

    Why not just get Mandrake which is already compiled like that for you?

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  37. my experience with Xandros by BigGerman · · Score: 2, Informative
    I purchased and installed a copy of Xandros 2.0.

    It feels much more polished than current Mandrake or Fedora do. Everything seems to just work. My only problem with it on the desktop was outdated Mozilla (1.4) but I found an upgrade script. Package installation via Xandros networks is an excellent idea for those who would be scared by apt-get install cryptic-package-name.

    I tried CrossOver and most of the stuff installs and runs, including Quicken and Internet Explorer. Seeing Windows Update running in KDE is truly scary. Fonts on Windows apps are terrible.

    Now, on my laptop Xandros did not shine quite as well. Once again, no proper power management support. I know for a fact, that if I get a recent Fedora or Mandrake I can get the power management to work (after tons of twiking), but I would except Xandros to take care of it for me.

    If I could suspend/hibernate my laptop with Xandros, i would have absolutely no reason to boot Windows anymore.

  38. Do I betray thee, Tux? by katsushiro · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Linux is good. It's better, faster, and more stable than it's been in years. The level of quality on existing applications has gone up considerably, and new applications are being worked on everyday. You can use it as an everyday desktop as easily as you can use it for web/file/print serving. Systems such as Debian, Gentoo, and, yes, even Red Hat, make installing applications and keeping them updated a breeze. You don't have to worry about viruses, and spam and pop up fighting is integrated into most available web browsers and mail clients. However: it's not perfect. And it still caters to a different type of person than what Windows usually caters to.

    Here's the deal: a lot of things in Linux still require you to know about your computer, and the things that go in it. They require you to at least understand a lot about the inner workings of your machine and the software on it. This, however, means that your average Linux user must spend some time and effort learning these things and fiddling about with them, dropping into the command line, etc. etc. This is fine and good if you, like me, enjoy messing about with the guts of your OS. But most people, frankly, don't want to learn about their computers. They don't want to have to know anything about their system, its commands and file structures and methods and formats. They just want things to work, simply and with as little hassle as possible. And, for the most part, Windows provides that hassle-free day to day experience much better than Linux does.

    Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mean it as an attack, or in a condescending way, when I say most people can't be bothered to learn more about their computers and spend time learning the format of some arcane commands. It may seem strange to geeks like me, but most people do have better things to do. If you're, say, a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant or, hell, even a housewife, there's a thousand things in your day and in your life that are more important than trying to figure out just what command paramater will enable you to finally view that picture of your grandkids that your daughter in law emailed you. These people, most people, in fact, want convenience. They want to sit down and have their machine work hassle free, and they dont' want ten billion options and configuration parameters, they just want a button they can click that will do what they want, or close enough to it that it doesn't matter. And I can't say I blame them.

    Sure, Linux is free, both cost wise and speech wise. And that's a big draw for a lot of us. But it's still not as easy to use as your average Joe and Jane want it to be, and it won't be for a short while longer, at least. Because of thise, while you might not spend money on it, you'll certainly have to spend more time with it, both in education and work to get it to do the things you want to do. Linux can do anything Windows can, and then some... it's just that it's not always as easy as it is over in Windows land. Most people simply don't have the time or patience to deal with that, and they're willing to pay to have things just work, rather than use free apps that require you to spend a week learning them. Why spend hours trying to figure out how transcode, vcdimager, and k3b work and getting around each app's quirks just to put an AVI movie on a VCD, when on Windows, Nero Burning Rom can grab an AVI and slap it on a VCD in three clicks. Sure, Nero costs money, whereas transcode and its ilk are free, but with Nero you click three times and you're done, while even a computer geek like me has to spend a whole morning trying to figure out the command line formats of each command before I can even begin, and then spend time experimenting with it until I get it right. Most people would rather pay for convenience than have to suffer for a free program.

    So here's the deal: I'm no longer going to hold Windows against Windows users. If you know about Linux but still want to use Windows, it's your choice. There are risks and costs in that, of course, such as exposure to

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
  39. Xandros/2.0 is the one to go for by pieterh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Unmentioned in the article, but central to Xandros' value is the Xandros File Manager, which was written from scratch by Xandros. It is very good: every useful file association has been pre-configured so that even a newbie can simply click on a file to do something useful. It just works. And, BTW, it includes very simple CD burning. I'm using Xandros, so are more of the PCs in my company, and it is stable, fast, and professional.
    It's commercial - $40 - but that is really worth paying for software of this quality. Xandros really continues the old Corel tradition of excellent software at a low price.
    Switching from Xandros to Lindows is painful: Lindows just looks cheap and nasty. And every other distro has the same hurdle: they require technical skill to install.
    I've seen Xandros installed and used by a person who had never before in his life used a PC, and watched me doing it once. It is that good.

  40. Users should be expected to be proficient by FreeUser · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And the current practice of blaming the users for your program's shortcomings, and calling them names like "lusers" or even "idiots", is a sad mockery of what the vendor-customer relationship was supposed to mean.

    If that "clueless luser" had to call tech support to get your program to work, it's _your_ failure. It's that simple.


    That is vastly simplified and in many cases flat out wrong. Yes, there is poorly written software that leaves users vulnerable, and requires users to know things they can't reasonably be expected to know. Microsoft is exceptionally guilty in this respect, as the plethora of viruses, worms, and trojans on that platform, and the tremendous damange they cause, attest to.

    But users need to be competent to use a computer, and Microsoft engages in a rhetoric that actively discourages competence, replacing education with soothsaying and empty promises of future security and performance.

    A more constructive approach would be for people to recognize that computers are like cars in some important respects with respect to what is required for a person to be capable of using them effectively and safely.

    In order to drive a car you have to get several weeks of training, pass written and operational exams, and be licensed.

    You have to not only learn the mechanics of operating a motor vehicle (how to turn the engine on, in both warm and cold weather, how to operate the transmission, windshield wipers, headlights, turn signals, how to parallel park, etc.) but also the rules of the road (when to use the turn signals, how to read the signage, the unposted rules of the road such as default speed limits in residential vs. rural areas, etc.).

    Even in the more permissive countries with respect to driving (such as the USA) you have to take a semester long class in how to drive before you are remotely considered competent enough to take the state exam, and in Europe the training is even more rigorous (and expensive) than that.

    Computers are machines at least as complex as cars, capable of doing far more diverse tasks than a car. It is the responsibility of the computer user to gain some degree of competence, and while not every car driver is a mechanic (nor every computer user willing to take the cover off of their machine), every driver does know the basic rules of the road and how to operate the vehicle. The same should be expected of computer users: they don't need to necessarilly know how to install a device driver, but they should be required and expected to know what a filesystem is, what a file vs. directory is, that different programs store information in different formats (mp3, avi, etc.), and the difference between persistent storage and RAM, as well as the difference between what is stored on their local drive and what is on the internet.

    Microsoft has persued a philosophy of keeping the users as stupid and uninformed as possible, to their own detriment. The fact that this laziness is embraced by their users (and is no small factor in the spread of worms and trojans among these people) is no excuse ... most of us wouldn't bother to take driver's ed either if we could just get the keys to the car and start learning on our own (making the roads as unsafe as the Internet has become).

    People need to be literate to read and write, and educated to operate a motor vehicle, and none of us expects to be able to do these tasks without being educated in the basic skills required to do so. It is absurd that we expect to be able to operate something vastly more complex and flexible ... computers ... and demand the ability to do so with little or no education or competence.

    Today's windows user is like the illiterate peasant of the 19th century, going to the local scribe to write or read a letter because they can't. The difference is that, at least in Europe and the US, efforts were being made to teach the peasant to read and write. Today the opposite is true

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  41. What about CrossOver Office? by juneadelle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Deluxe version of Xandros comes with this program, which runs most Windows software we've been able to throw at it (MS Office, Photoshop, etc). I'm shocked that this article overlooked this feature, which would arguably be a huge boon to Windows users looking to switch to Linux. Of course, maybe his editors would only pay for Standard, so maybe he never saw it.

  42. SEATTLE Times Review by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a huge milestone. The media at this end of the globe is traditionaly scared to piss off Redmond. Even the virus alerts have a positive spin. I think of all the Wet Coasters out here who's faces go blank when I mention Linux (usually during a 'pop-up' or 'computer virus' discussion). To have this kind of mention, let alone positive endorsement, out of a major West Coast publication stuns me. Typically, what happens next is that once the other media organizations see that the Seattle Times does not burst into flames they pick up the story themselves.

  43. My Xandros Experience by Long-EZ · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I bought a new HP ze5185 notebook PC in December 2002. I never booted Windows XP. I put in the Xandros 1.0 CD and installation was easier than any Windows install I've done.

    I was immediately impressed with the availability of open source software. A year later, I installed Xandros 2.0. It's even better. I haven't missed Windows at all (no surprise, I hated ever Windows version I ever used). I do wish there was a Linux version of QuickBooks accounting software. The Win version runs in Crossover, but it's a bit ugly. All other applications I need for my small engineering business are native Linux aps.

    Xandros demonstrates that Linux is ready for the average desktop user now. The few remaining hassles of Linux seem less important to me than the Outlook worms and crashes most Windows users suffer. And the issues with Linux are disappearing rapidly. It has the potential to be almost as low hassle as a Mac in a year or two, while running on low cost generic PC hardware. I don't see what Microsoft can do to stop Linux. Even with the FUD campaign, SCO, etc., Linux marches on relentlessly. It's the nature of open source software to continuously improve.

    I have a few issues with Xandros.

    I wasted last weekend watching the five DVD set of Stargate season six. Xine worked reliably, but only after I shut down most other applications. Xine's user interface is slow on my PC. But playback is smooth and of good quality.

    I used a couple of different CD burning applications in Xandros 1.0. They worked well, but there wasn't one application that was good for audio and data CDs. I was glad when Xandros 2.0 integrated CD burning into the excellent Xandros File Manager. Unfortunately, my first attempts to copy audio CDs resulted in one good CD and five coasters. Maybe I need to learn how to use the CD burning features. Or maybe I need to install K3B until Xandros refines their CD burner.

    Unlike the article, I have no trouble playing Quicktime videos. Mozilla handles them automatically too. Even crappy Realplayer seems tamed in the Linux world where it is prevented from taking over my PC, although it's probably still spyware.

    Putting aside glitches in multimedia that most operating systems experience to some extent, I'd have to say that Xandros is an excellent platform for businesses, where the main uses will be word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, email, and internet browsing. Xandros has always done all of these things very well, and will only get better as OpenOffice matures and Firefox makes it's way into Xandros.

    The biggest item left on the To-Do list is repealing the Microsoft tax. I resent the fact that I can't buy a name brand notebook PC without being forced to give $80 to Microsoft for an OS I do not want and will not use. Just think how bad it would be if the US Department of Justice had LOST their antitrust lawsuit.

    --
    >> My ultraviolent Linux switch video.
  44. Off topic: Burning by cdyson37 · · Score: 2, Funny

    This actually appeared in a newspaper:

    Commenting on a complaint from a Mr Arthur Purdey about a large gas bill, a spokesman for North West gas said, "We agree it was rather high for the time of year. It's possible Mr Purdey has been charged for the gas used up during the explosion that destroyed his house." (The Daily Telegraph).

  45. Because Lindows.com *has* a marketing practice by mdfst13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mandrake is a nice (and cutting edge) distro. Mandrake markets itself to Linux users who buy software for Linux reasons. By contrast, Lindows.com and Xandros market *directly* at people who would otherwise buy MS.

    Criticizing LindowsOS/Xandros Desktop for not matching up to other Linux distros is missing the point. They are not intended to match up to other Linux distros. If you want to run Linux, forget LindowsOS/Xandros Desktop: install stock Debian (or Mandrake, Gentoo, etc.).

    LindowsOS aims at people who want a cheaper alternative to Microsoft Windows. It is cheaper than MS Windows (that "high yearly fee" of $50 is cheap compared to paying $100 to update Windows and another $300 to update Office; it also gives discounts on various third party software).

    Xandros Desktop is aimed at business users with an existing Microsoft network. It is designed to allow install piecemeal (buy one new Xandros machine at a time) by *MS Windows* admins (as opposed to more expensive Linux admins).

    There are a variety of reasons to choose other distros over LindowsOS/Xandros Desktop. When reviewing Linux distros, this should be noted. The purpose of this article is not to review Linux distros -- it's to review alternatives to MS Windows. Lindows.com and Xandros have positioned their products in that light (largely because it is more profitable to compete against commercial software than shareware) and are reaping the benefits in terms of publicity.

    For whom would you expect them to write articles? 3% of their readers? Or 90+% of their readers? Isn't it obvious?