Building Social Skills in Gifted Youths?

UNOStudent asks: "I'm currently a Biotech undergrad at the University of Nebraska-Omaha and have spent the past several semesters mentoring gifted youngsters and have been presented with a challenge this semester. My student is unbelievably smart, however has very limited social skills, is unable to cooperate with peers, doesn't understand why they make fun of his uncombed hair, etc. Since many of us may have grown up in a similar circumstance, I'm looking for suggestions from my fellow geeks on ideas for how to challenge him mentally, while building essential social skills." How would you build social skills in someone more concerned with math, science and computers?

Comments

Let's get this out of the way......

[HoxBox]

Incoming a million "This is slashdot, what's a social skill" jokes....

Re:Let's get this out of the way......

[notamac]

And how many XP do I need to get one?

you must be new here....

[chrisopherpace]

asking slashdot on social skill questions is like asking a factory worker which distribution of Linux is better.

This is a joke, laugh.

Easy...

[ErikTheRed]

You need incentinves. Simply explain that better social skills lead to more sex.

Re:Easy...

[KingOfBLASH]

The parent post should be modded up Insightful and not funny. One of the major reasons, IMHO, geeks and nerds do not develop social skills is because they see no need. Most kids are concerned with their classmates opinions, and being liked. Those that do not care about being liked and just want to do what they want to do -- i.e. learn math -- develop in other ways their peers do not.

Another reason I believe that gifted children do not develop social skills is they lack peers. Think about talking to a child when you're an adult. You don't talk to them on the same level because they are immature and inexperienced. It's the same sort of thing for gifted children, they see themselves as the equivalent of a 20 year old trapped in a group of 10 year olds (or whatever). Solution? Put them with people of their intelligence level in their age group and watch them grow socially. (Not an easy task if they are in the top 1% or less of the population)

Work in Teams

[Grassferry49]

Divide up the project so that he only has a piece of the puzzle and will fail unless he is able to interact with the other team members to get it to work. Also play lots of games where social interaction is involved to solve the problem, human knots, simple ball games, you know those group building games we all hate.

Role-playing games.

[Discopete]

This did wonders for my social skills.

Get him into dungeons and dragons. Find a group at a local shop or a campus club that will allow him to join as a newbie.

Most experienced DM's enjoy seeing new players grown and mature while learning and playing the game.

Re:Role-playing games.

[Anonymous Coward]

Which has been married for 10 years; you or your character?

Teach him about Asperger's Syndrome

[TerryAtWork]

I mean it. Tell him he might have to wind up running human emotions under emulation if necessary.

Not knowing what the hell is wrong with him will stress him a lot more than having something, anything, he can deal with.

Good luck with this.

Natural Geek Development

[Ayandia]

There's the natural course of geek development and we should mess with it as little as possible.

New young geeks should have to wait for beer to develop social skills just like we did.

Obligatory Simpsons Quote

[dancingmad]

Comic Book Guy : Someone has mixed an "Amazing Spiderman" in with the "Peter Parker - The Spectacular Spiderman" series. This will not stand.

Woman: Pardon me, but I wish to tender a serious cash offer for this stack of water damaged Little Lulus.

CBG: Huh, "A" that is not water, it is Diet Mr. Pib, and "B" I... (CBG turns to look at the woman) Ohh... Err... Tell me, how do you feel about 45 year old virgins who still live with their parents?

Woman: Comb the Sweet Tarts out of your beard and you're on.

CBG: Don't try to change me baby.

Surely You're Joking

[evilad]

Give the kid a copy of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman."

He comes across as an arrogant bastard, but I sure did enjoy the chapter about the intellectual challenge presented by learning how to pick up chicks.

N.b.: Feynman's technique was probably valid in the 50s, and is definitely not useful now. The valuable part is getting this kid to treat "learning social skills" as an intellectual exercise.

I.e., what makes these stupid apes TICK?

Re:One word - Karate

[wankledot]

As flipant as this the parent is, martial arts might be a real decent way to build some confidence in pysical activity, and get him/her interacting with people. Sports are generally a good way to do it, and martial arts are far more geeky than the usual football/baseball/soccer stuff, plus it can be competitive or not, depending on preference. Seems like all the geeks these days are little japanese culture fanboys who are into anime, and this is a natural transition.

Re:One word - Karate

[Skyshadow]

That's actually not a bad idea (not for the reasons you've mentioned).

Martial Arts build self-confidence, discipline and involve teaching as well as learning (since the more advanced students will help the less advanced). This is probably a pretty good list of the things these kids need, especially if physical activity and the like aren't really their forte -- challenges are good.

I'm taking Tae Kwon Do as a 26 year-old, and I just wish I'd gotten into it sooner. I've only been at it a short time, and I already sound like one of the cheesy recruiting flyers.

As to your other point, you really shouldn't minimize the importance of a good set of social skills. Especially in our more complex world, interaction with others is a huge part of getting anything done. Being able to ask for (and accept) things, network, build relationships and function in social situations are damn nifty skills to have.

Anyhow, I think martial arts would be a good way to teach smart kids to be *smart*, rather than just bastions of niche knowledge.

Asberger's Syndrome

[squozebrain]

I'm not a psychologist, but there is a lot of information on the web concerning Asberger's Syndrome, a social learning disability which often occurs in gifted children. See this site, for example:

Asbergers syndrome is a severe disorder typified by difficulties in social interaction, restricted interests, and unusual patterns of behavior. Like autism, boys are more likely to suffer from Asbergers syndrome than girls. Although the children often have well-developed verbal skills, they are severely lacking in social skills. Their ability to interpret social cues is impaired, as is their ability to empathize with others. Even though they can describe the emotions of others and the gists of conversations, they are unable to act upon this knowledge in an intuitive, spontaneous fashion. They often have clumsy, stiff body language, use inappropriate facial expressions, and may speak in a monotone. Some talk incessantly, but usually about a topic of interest only to themselves, so they bore the listener.

Although they may appear to be rude, this is a neurological disorder and not insensitivity. In fact, children with Asbergers are keenly aware of others around them, and become anxious in social settings. Because they tend to be "nerdy," these children often are subject to social rejection by their peers. This, in turn, frequently leads to anger, depression, and withdrawal, compounding the problem even more. Like their peers, children with Asbergers syndrome want to be accepted, but their disability makes this difficult. These children do well with logical, sequential thinking, so they tend to be successful academically and even have superior skills in an area of interest to them. However, holistic thinking is different; they often cannot deal with metaphors, puns, and creativity. Holistic thinking is required to be successful at reading social situations and responding appropriately.

Since the child with Asbergers syndrome primarily has problems with social skills, especially relating to peers as opposed to adults, the diagnosis, treatment, and prognosis are very different than for classical autism. Psychotherapy and treatment in a program for the emotionally disturbed tend not to be helpful. (In fact, one school of thought regards Asbergers syndrome as a nonverbal learning disability as opposed to a mild form of autism.) One therapy that has been effective is Computer Aided Emotional Restructuring (CAER), which greatly reduces the anger, anxiety, and depression brought on by the social rejection these children usually experience. As they become more relaxed in social settings, these children become free to learn to effectively read and respond to social cues, and social skills training becomes more successful.

Acting lessons

[esnible]

Acting lessons, especially improvisation (comedy or drama).

Acting teaches how to communicate intentions and how to show interest when listening.

Acting can also provide a second social network (with people just as interested in role playing as you, except without silly costumes), with few social interconnections to the tech social networks (so you get to be a social hub.)

A bit of advice...

[dancingmad]

Being a genius is one thing and it can get you ahead in life, but it's nothing if you can't deal with people (look at Jobs and the Woz, for example).

Even in modern programming, no one man can tackle enormous projects - we break things into functions and into parts and put them together.

Being ethnically different, "smart" (so said my K-12 schools, but college makes me doubt it), and by nature and culture alternately shy and arrogant, I've had to work to A) get to know people and B) work with them instead of going off on my own.

I say you give him group assignments where he has to work with other people (programming seperate functions in a larger program). Also, for kids, the great equalizer is video games - I've been playing Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles for a while and that game really emphasizes team work and people talking together.

Speaking from experience...

[oldosadmin]

The best way to build social skills is to get them involved in a group of people who actually -care- for them as a friend. The rest is easy.

(sad story, warning)
When I was a kid, I was the fat, alkward kid who nobody liked. I was never able to get over my alkwardness until I found a friend, Melissa (Mel) who accepted me as I was.

Most of the time, these "socially enept" people are only socially enept because society has turned them away.

If you want these people to be socially acceptable, try accepting them first.

Not that I'm cool or anything now, but I do have friends, people who I care about and care about me. Popularity isn't everything. Friendship is. Thank God for friends.

Smile. It goes further than you think...

[Anonymous Coward]

I graduated from one of the top schools in Computer Science. Needless to say, the majority of students were male and it was "difficult" to find a girl. I was working as a 'Desk Attendant' (which meant that I checked IDs as people entered a dorm) and I realized that it was the PERFECT opportunity to meet women. Everytime a girl passed that I didn't know, I simply smiled. The next time I saw them, I smiled again. If I was feeling lucky, I engaged in conversation. Eventually, it led to completely random women coming up to me on campus saying something as simple as "Hi!". My friends were amazed. "How did you meet her?" they'd say.

The lesson is that social interaction doesn't require a major breakthrough. Slowly build up your confidence and you'll be amazed at the results which follow.

Empathy

[FunWithHeadlines]

I wouldn't classify myself as such a geek, but I sure hung around with those types in school and know the mindset very well. I was always the type who thought somewhat like a geek, but not all the way. I was fascinated by tech stuff, but it was not all-consuming for me. I enjoyed writing as much as I did programming, for example. So I served as a kind of bridge for my more geeky friends to the "normal" kids. I could get along in both crowds, and made friends easily among all types. (In fact, I usually would try to befriend the tough kids so as to have protection ).

What I saw missing from my geeky friend's social skill set was empathy. They knew they were different and smarter than the rest, and they liked being smarter. Made them cocky, and they looked down upon the rest. The more they were teased, the more they withdrew, and the more they looked down on their tormentors. So how does empathy help? Look, these are smart kids and they can be reasoned with that they are going to have to spend a lifetime among people not as smart as they are. There is no getting around that unless you become a near hermit. So wouldn't it be smart to try to see themselves as others see them?

Yeah, who cares if you comb your hair anyway? Aren't there more important things in life, and besides people shouldn't judge me by my outer appearance! True, all true. But you know what? They do and they will. So does it make a difference whether or not your hair is combed? If no one cares, no. If people do care, yeah, it causes hassles for you that can so easily be avoided by a 30-second brush with a comb. Not hard, appeases the ignorant. Comes in handy if you ever have a job interview (and you will want one someday, won't you?).

Empathy allows you to think through the other person's eyes. Yeah, they aren't as smart as you, but they can't fully help that (biology and all that) and yet they are still humans with as much right toward dignity and respect as you would want for yourself. Apperances and actions shouldn't matter in a perfect world where intellect was all that counted, but we don't live in that world. We do have to interact with people who judge us for all the wrong reasons. Isn't it smart to spend just a minimal amount of effort to smooth our way in life? If you are perceived as a jerk by others, no matter how invalid the reason may be, it will cause friction in your life.

The smart person sees that friction coming and heads it off with a few simple social tricks that fool the ignorant. It's great as a party trick too!

Re:One word - Karate

[sonatinas]

When i was 6 my parents enrolled me in martial arts. It really helped me socially. I didn't have that many friends at school, but i had plenty of martial arts friends. You get a great workout and develop some discipline. If you treat it as an art and discipline and not a way to kick ass, it really has a profound effect on your life. And helps you gain confidence.

Re:One word - Karate

[jdm.LNX]

Another thing that will help you pick up social skills quickly is getting a job at a resturant or in sales. Cashier or a position as a cook in a resturant are two good choices. As far as the cook goes, you have to deal with 10+ waitresses and the people inside of the kitchen. As a cashier you've gotta deal with hundreds of customers a day. Working as a cook helped me out more than you can imagine. I got to know alot of hot waitresses and their hot friends.

Another word : Ausbergers

[Glonoinha]

Ausbergers syndrome - learn it, know it, ask yourself if it applies here. It is similar in nature to Autism (think of RainMan but really watered down, almost to the point of it being questionable as to whether or not he is / is not affected.)

Do the youthes you are talking about have amazing technical skills, wonderful (photographic) memories, the ability to empathize with the computer ... while being totally socially inept?

Anyways, it is worth understanding.

Re:Another word : Ausbergers

[JabberWokky]

Why do geeks, who can look up anything on Google, have no idea what Asperger's Syndrome is? They seem to think that it is some sort of light preference away from social skills.

I am quite close to someone with Asperger's. I met him because I know his sister. It's unlikely that I'd meet him otherwise. I've met several people with Asperger's since then, as they live together at an assisted living facility.

Asperger's is a social handicap. He cannot distinguish lies from truth because he cannot read faces or tone of voice. The assisted living facility watches everybody's budget because they are prone to being swindled. At the same time, he is outgoing, gregarious and generous. He remembers everybody's birthday and spends plenty of time on the phone with everybody and goes out most nights, socializing with people.

But he's on a twenty minute loop of topics. He'll bring something up, then the next topic, and so on, and then twenty minutes later brings up the first topic again. His roommate and he have circular conversations without any hint of discomfort. He also tends to bring up things that happened 20 years ago repeatedly, sometimes without being aware of what has happened in the interval. He talks about his childhood pet cat as if it were still alive.

He is very intelligent and fun to hang out with because he is so outgoing. We went over to his apartment for the Superbowl (he's a big football fan), and he had a GI Joe tablecloth. He invited a bunch of people and was a wonderful host.

But he just didn't get some of the jokes or stories because he simply can not read sarcasm or irony.

Asperger's is talked about on Slashdot as if it were some sort of light geekish introversion. Asperger's has nothing to do with introversion, and many geek tendancies (senses of humor that tend toward the ironic, sarcastic or double meaning) are completely beyond the capabilities of someone with Asperger's. One test for Asperger's is asking someone to draw a person. Children with Asperger's tend not to draw facial features, and if they do, they lack any emotion. Asperger's is complicated because the person may be intelligent (or not... they have the normal range of intelligence), but they simply lack the fundimental ability to parse many parts of social communication.

Asperger's is not a minor handicap. Nor does it cause introversion. It is the inability to understand the social interaction inherent in communication. The fellow I told you about is up for assistant manager at a major pizza chain. He's doing well in the world and has made many friends. But he is handicapped, and it's not the minor "geekish tendancies" that people on Slashdot seem to think Asperger's is. He'll never be able to live on his own, always needing some supervision. It is a real, major handicap.

--
Evan

Re:Another word : Ausbergers

[__aatgod8309]

Aspergers isn't necessarily as bad as you are portraying it - at least, not always and not necessarily as visible. (I have a diagnosis of AS (Aspergers Syndrome) myself, so i think i have some idea of what i speak.)

There is a great deal of variation in the intensity of an autistic person's behaviours (for AS is a 'milder' form of autism); in my case i'm pretty clueless about social cues and pretty much lost in social group situations.

Autistics aren't the emotionless robots we're all painted as, although the way we can express our emotions can be so powerful/uncontrolled that it's considered dangerous, or so subtly expressed that the emotion is simply not seen as such.

Humour varies with autistics just as it does with everyone else; i have something of a reputation amongst my peers (both autistic and not) for my wit (when the joke works, which is usually the case).

But AS is a serious obstacle when seeking (or attempting to remain in) employment, and it can make social contact something of a challenge (for both sides).

Yes, it's a handicap, but not always incapacitating.

Re:One word - Karate

[Jexx Dragon]

Being able to ask for (and accept) things, network, build relationships and function in social situations are damn nifty skills to have.

I can build networks. Wait...

Discipline the other kids, please.

[SuperBanana]

Keep them away from bullies and small minded people who won't understand or accept them.

Quite frankly, the teacher should be more concerned about the bullies; the smart kid isn't the problem, the bullies are. Why?

They usually turn out to be complete rejects as far as society goes; violent neanderthals, basically. Everyone looks the other way until BAM, they hit the real world and suddenly end up in jail for bashing their girlfriend's head against the wall(unless they happen to make it big in sports). Meanwhile, the geek suffers and may be secluded, but ultimately contributes to society in ways the ape never could have.

The solution here is to be strict with punishing the kids that pick on him. Johnny makes fun of him for not combing his hair? Johnny gets a time-out and a talk about how we're all different people, and we need to accept those who are different from us. Children start out as pretty accepting- but in the early years they can either learn it's really NOT ok to pick on other people, or they can get away with it, feel slightly good about themselves, and keep doing it. Learning to accept others makes them far more likely to succeed in school and particularly in the workplace(ie, "team players").

An Extreme Example...

[quantaq]

I met a high school kid a couple of years back who blew away any anti-social geek I've ever known. The /. crowd only *thinks* it's out of the social loop, but trust me, this kid has everyone here beat (the fact you come to this site at all makes you more social and recreational). To begin with, he read no fiction whatsoever. Only text books. High level math and physics. Neither science fiction nor fantasy appealed to him. I wish to god I could remember what he said about the /. site after I pointed him to it.

Anyway, I *tried* to get this kid into something that even the geek crowd would think was recreational, but nada. No music, no movies, no video games, no sports (assuming foozball counts as a sport). Sure, he's headed to Yale, and he knows assloads about engineering already (he could talk down to a master's student from GA Tech), but I can't imagine how lonely the guy may one day end up. It's *possible* that he'll meet a girl who'll fall in love with him for what he's like now, but his playing field is severely limited as such. And yes, I understand that his idea of recreation was the things he was into, but it isn't exactly common ground when it comes to finding friends. He basically reminds me of the guy from Sneakers who made robotic dogs, but more limited.

I finally decided that it wasn't my place to help this guy. That might be the case with the student in the article. I personally think that it'll take a psychologist/psychiatrist, and not the /. crowd, to really help this kid. You may have no idea why this kid is acting the way he is, so don't try to fix him. He's not an iPod mini. If you screw up and make things worse, it's a person, not a couple hundered bucks, that's lost.

Re:One word - Karate

[Daniel Dvorkin]

That's actually not a bad idea (not for the reasons you've mentioned).

All of your reasons are valid, but being able to kick the bullies' asses is a valid one as well. The martial arts are the martial arts; they may have developed a layer of philosophy over the years, but at the root they're about fighting. And that's not a bad thing, at all.

I was a punching bag all the way through elementary school and junior high. I started studying Tae Kwon Do -- from an instructor who had been a Marine stationed in Korea, and taught the art as a survival skill rather than a sport -- the summer before my freshman year of high school. I spent my freshman and sophomore years getting in a lot of fights. By my junior year, I had a reputation as a "psycho" (apparently when the jocks were pounding the hell out of me, that was perfectly normal, but fighting back was crazy). It wasn't quite the reputation I was looking for, but it was a hell of a lot better than going to school every day in literal terror.

And by my senior year, once people realized that I wasn't a psycho, it paid off. I could still be a geek, still be really really good at math and science, still spend most of my time with my nose buried in a book ... and I also had friends, and a girlfriend, and invitations to parties, and, you know, a life. It wasn't something I had to work at, directly. It just kind of happened, because I had the self-confidence to live my life in a way that made me happy --

-- and I trace that confidence back, quite directly, to the day I first felt a football player's nose crunch under my heel. Because sometimes, standing and fighting and winning is the best thing you can do.

Cross Country

[Atmchicago]

Having never taken a martial art, I don't know how effective they are. However, an alternative is to start running. Running has to be one of the best physical activities, and can be done throughout your entire life.

If the school has a cross country team, (especially if it is no-cut, like mine was), then that may be the perfect way to get involved with peers in an activity. It certainly opened me up more to other people and was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Re:One word - Karate

[rumint]

I would add that the martial arts are particularly valuable for teaching the lesson that no matter how good you think you are, there is inevitably someone better. The same applies to intelligence. Learning some humilty now will help make him a better student and teacher in the future.

My apologies to the .00001% of the Slashdot population who actually are the top martial artist and genius on the planet.

Re:One word - Karate

[dbialac]

At his age, I was seeing the same things (and in all places, Omaha, NE). Kids making fun of me, but I didn't understand why. It's not his hair, it's him. Oddly, I thought it was my hair when I was a kid, but that was only the specific element, not the abstract element which I couldn't see. The crux of the problem isn't something you can do anything about right now -- connecting to people on the most basic emotional levels. He'll have to work it out on his own later in life.

You can get him involved in activities such as chess club, etc. that are geared towards gifted children. If he doesn't have coordination, I wouldn't do Karate as it will only frustrate him. Help him build confidence in his strengths, which appears right now to be his intelligence. Chess, computer organizations, summer school programs for the gifted, etc.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Re:One word - Karate

[I_Want_This_ID]

Another good martial art is Aikido.

Aikido isn't a "get in your face" type of martial art, it's more of a "take your opponent down as fast as possible with adding as little of your own energy as possible" kind of art. EVERYTHING is taught by example and partner/group work.
Very cool stuff. Here for more information

or...

[dandelion_wine]

Or if that's not his thing, and he isn't scared off by the new-agey fringers, yoga can work, too. Not for ass-kicking, but for getting in tune with his body, which, if he's a typical geek, is way out of whack.

One of the best insights I remember from Coupland's Microserfs was the talk about a geek's disconnection from his/her body. How it's just this thing we pay little attention to, and consequently, it does not serve us well. I'm a runner, too, but while that works on a stress-reduction level, I don't think it puts you in tune as well as a more precise discipline such as martial arts or yoga.

Beyond some frank discussion (everyone needs someone to tell them the truth about stuff), however, what more can you do? You can only do so much. In truth, a woman will change him -- for the better, if she's a good one. Let's face it, guys are extreme, and admirable for being extreme. We can live off very little and get by, and that lends itself to all kinds of single-minded dedication, and thus achievement, but women tend to bring temperance to what they touch. (again, the good ones). Just my $.02

I was a 'gifted' student

[ispeters]

On my 20th birthday I happened to meet my grade 3-5 teacher in a restaurant over lunch and he remarked how I had survived the social experiment that was my 'gifted class'. It wasn't until I managed to find and keep a girlfriend that I found out I was an arrogant ass-hole (why she's with me I'll never know). Since learning about social skills from my gf, I've discovered that the praise culture that develops in gifted classrooms leads to egomania among the students. Gifted students learn faster/better, but that doesn't make them special. They have other failings that average students may not have. I still have ego problems (I'll do just about anything for praise, and I have real problems internalizing criticism) but I'm better than I was. I don't know how any of what I've said answers your original question, but I guess I'm trying to say that teaching and raising 'gifted' kids is definitely not a solved problem.

I think humbleness is sorely lacking amongst people with talent. When you match humbleness with talent, you get people like Linus Torvalds. Check out this article at Wired. It was linked from the front page of Slashdot a while back but I'm too lazy to look for the link. The first sentence of the article is "Linus Torvalds wants me to believe he's too boring for this story." I kinda doubt someone like ESR would ever be the subject of an article that started out that way. Arrogance is a real problem amongst the geek culture, and I think it's arrogance that stands between many geeks and a thriving social life. I work as a co-op student at a local software company, and I'm fortunate to work with a few bright people--all graduates of computer programmes at a fairly prestigious university. The social lives of my co-workers are just about inversly proportional to their level of arrogance.

Perhaps it is the socially-skilled people who curtail their arrogance, and not the humble people who garner lots of friends--I can't determine causation from correlation--but it's obvious to me that the two attributes go hand in hand, and I think it's telling that my circle of friends has a rather narrow radius whereas my ego sometimes gets stuck on the doorframe.

Ian

Let him be himself perhaps ?

[steveoc]

What is the great need to 'change' him, so that he 'fits in better' with 'normal people'.

Let the fucking kid be himself, and allow him to be proud of who is is. Allow him to grow into whatever personality he is most comfortable with.

Re:One word - Karate

[ComradeX13]

The point of Karate - or any martial art - would be in part *to* give him coordination.

Speaking as a former "gifted" kid, and someone who started taking martial arts young, there's nothing like knocking the shit out of the school bully to give a kid some confidence.

A lot depends on age, as well... hell, a kid like that in high school, I'd say find a cool kid his own age and throw him into your average high school summer party. Losing a few inhibitions can do a lot for a person.

Anyway, though, show a kid with some smarts something he wants that he can only get through social activity, give him a few clues as to how to get started and I'm sure he'll pick a few things up (again, age - later on, sex is a big motivator.)

Re:One word - Karate

[shadowbearer]

Mod parent up

Ditto, here. TKD, also. Never considered a psycho, AFAIK, but the bullying just stopped after I got my first belt. Might have had something to do with me demolishing a certain asshole in my sophomore year.

I ran into one of the bullies who terrorized me during junior high recently in a bar in my hometown. His take on it was that I had "changed" and there was something about me that told him not to try it anymore, so he looked for easier targets.

He'd really changed, too, when we talked. We'd both grown up a lot, and it was a great evening of conversation and reminiscence, and laughter at how stupid we both were. Holy memory, batman....thanks, DD

SB

Re:One word - Karate

[kfg]

If he doesn't have coordination, I wouldn't do Karate as it will only frustrate him.

Yes, if his Karate teacher sucks. Unfortunately there are many of these. As with all things one must be an intelligent and discerning shopper.

In any case, a child such as this is quite likely to do better with one of the "soft" martial arts, such as Tai Chi and Aikido, where developing coordination is the principle focus of the art. They also require a good deal of intelligent thoughtfulness to do well. A good teacher will take him from wherever he is and train him from there, not from some hypothetical starting point where he's "supposed to be." Then when he develops skill, coordination and selfconfidence he can adopt a "hard" school if he wishes.

KFG

Re:One word - Karate

[CosmeticLobotamy]

I don't know about being a cook. That seems like it might help. But I have a similar problem to this kid's, not due to excessive smarts but because when people talk to me I freeze up and imagine all the ways I'm going to make an ass of myself before whoever is talking to me leaves despite my best efforts to not, and I worked as a cashier.

So I can tell you that being a cashier will only teach the kid to smile and nod while thinking, "Shut up and pay, shut up and pay, there's people behind you, they're going to yell at me for being slow and it's your fault, shut up and pay." Smile-and-nod skills are important, but there are better ways to learn them where no one yells at you.

Amen, brother.

[rjh]

such as the suggestion that those of us with AS are indulging in some kind of fad.

When I was evaluated for AS, my psych told me that I had clear enough symptoms that an AS diagnosis was appropriate... but that ultimately it was up to me whether I had AS. If having the knowledge that my brain was wired differently helped me cope with life, helped me accomodate my shortcomings, let me live a happier and better life, then by all means: let's get the AS diagnosis taken care of.

But the flip side is that a lot of people take diagnoses and turn them into excuses why they can't do $foo, why other people need to accomodate them, why they're ... etc. If you're one of these people, then even if AS is a correct diagnosis, it's critically important that you not label yourself as AS, because it'll just become one more label you hang on yourself as a way of giving yourself permission to fail.

AS is often a fad diagnosis. (The worst I ever saw was a father telling me about his four-year-old with AS. Come on.) But the existence of fad diagnoses does not in any way negate the existence of accurate AS diagnoses, nor the help that self-knowledge can bring.

I have AS. I'm a graduate student; I almost got married once, but it didn't take. I've worked in the industry and received my fair share of glowing recommendations and don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-ass goodbyes. I have the respect of my peers and more friends than I deserve.

None of this happened either because or in spite of Asperger's Syndrome. I'm wholly responsible for all of them--the particular way my head is wired has zero responsibility for any of them.

The way my head is wired is just a fact of existence. What I choose to do with my life... that's up to me.

Three Words - Job in Retail.

[Beardo the Bearded]

When I was going to College, the biggest influence in my confidence and people skills was a job in retail. NOT something even remotely connected to technology. I.E. No Future Suck, Elecsucknics Boutique, etc. Selling clothes or glasses are probably the best.

Other benefits:
1. Money. I mean, who couldn't use some more money? You can buy clothes, haircuts, women, toys; hell, he could even buy a gold brick if there's nothing else he wants.

2. Dress sense. Unless you're in a job that supplies a uniform, you're going to have to learn how to put together a good outfit. Some outfits will suck, especially at first, but soon the good outfits will outnumber the bad.

3. Talking to people all the time who don't give a nut how smart you are. As far as they're concerned, you're dumber than they are.

4. You will learn that a company will stab you in the back, then figure out if it's cheaper to pull out the knife and stab you again, or use a new knife. That's a VERY valuable lesson.

If he'd rather not work, then he's probably already too far gone to help, but the College / University that he's going to should have dozens of clubs. That's probably an okay substitute.

the secret to being social

[bergeron76]

RELAX!

As a coder and socialite, I can fill you guys in on the secret.

Coding is a VERY PRECISE SCIENCE.

Talking to people is a VERY RELAXED ART.

On nights that I'm in "code mode" I don't go out and socialize, or party, etc. I write code. The problem with geeks is that we don't spend enough time in social situations. Just like everything else in life, you have to put time into things that are worth doing. In the same way that you can soak up some code by spending time with it, you can soak up social graces by being around people (that aren't close friends).

PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPUTERS. If you don't put a comma in the right place, or you don't puncuate your sentences properly, your conversation will still compile. The only way to mess up a conversation is to OVERTHINK or OVERANALYZE it. The best thing to do is just talk to everyone as if they were a close family member or friend. Ask them about their day... Ask the cashier at Publix or Kroger if she/he's been busy today. They'll chat with you.

Also, don't chat with people just for a predefined GOAL. People can see right through that (especially girls). Share a few sentences with the grocery bagger EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM HIM. It will do 2 things - it will relax you when talking to a stranger, and it will help you build your basic conversational topics.

Hell, start small. When you call 411 and ask for a number, and the chick is looking it up, ask her if she's been busy. Ask her if shes based out of your town. If it's a dude, do the same thing. Learn to just talk to people and act like you care what they are telling you. But DON'T BE CREEPY. Listen to what they say and follow up on it briefly, but don't linger on things. When your bags are done being placed in your shopping cart, tell the person, "good luck."; or "have a good day". or whatever. Being social is not nearly as complex as learning a programming language; so stop looking at people like every period, semicolon, comma matters.

People are very basic.

The end result is that you'll be more relaxed in general when talking with people. You won't have a "goal" when talking to someone, and people won't think that you do and they'll just talk about whatever with you.

Alcohol helps, but it's not a solution.

Once you find the "keyword" that you and the little slut have in common, you can milk it and show your intelligence on the subject and then bed her.

Stay tuned for Chapter 2: Intermediate conversation - In this chapter we'll discuss how to tell her things like, "Don't wake me up when you leave tomorrow..." and "I really appreciate the head, but I'd be really impressed if you made me a sandwich..."

while modded funny this is actually accurate

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was 16 I decided that I would be happier if I normalized myself. Based on studies on soviet alcholics I concluded that if I did enough brain damage I'd be close to normal

Well it didn't normalize me but the thing I discovered was that when drinking heavily I was charismatic and appraochable. I had spent 2 years in the gym but had no luck with women. *bang* as soon as I have as much booze in me as a squad of navy pilots on leave I was irrisistable. by the time I was 18 there was a list of girls who would go to parties only if I was going to be there.

I also figured out that all I had to do was act like I did when drunk and I was much better with people (the eye contact, energetic voice, the warm smile, being happy to see people, etc). You do not have to ever have the "social skills" all you really have to have is the ability to emulate the social skills. this is basic acting people. It doesn't have to come naturally but you do have to be able to study what charismatic people do and be able to parrot it.

Body building also doesn't hurt. Women as well as men judge you initially based on the only thing they have and that is appearance. Besides it is just like any other RPG, it is all about leveling.

Martial arts? been there done that. If you live in fear this might seem like the answer. Unfortunatly your charismatic martial artist is about as common as your charismatic astro physisist (maybe less, I understand that Hawking used to be great fun at parties). This is only a good idea if he is getting beat up and then, only if he feel the opposition is not going to feel his new found skills entitle them to equalize the situation whether it be through numbers or weapons.

If he is as sharp as you say; above and beyond all else remember he doesn't have to socialize with people his own age. Grab him a few PHDs and post grads from fields that interest him and let them play together. Or see if he can just start college early (some places will pay for it if he his still a minor) The people who are mean to him now, will dead end shortly after high school and that they will never matter like they seem to right now. It is a couple rough years but after that everything gets better.

This one should go AC as some of it sounds like bragging and the rest might sound sociopathic to some.

Re:One word - Karate

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. As a geek who has studied multiple martial arts (both un-armed and weapons), I can say that it is a great way to learn social skills and how to get along with people. You can learn a wide range of skills both social and physical, and have a lot of fun while your at it.
Use a bit of caution when choosing a dojo however, many of the schools have (unfortunately) become overly commercial - as long as you show up and pay your fees, you can expect to advance "on schedule" - I've seen kids (and adults) with black belts who show none of the maturity and skills that should be present at that level. Others have become clubs for people who seem to think that everything you need to know can be learned from watching Jet Li movies, when this is a weapons class, it's a Darwin Award waiting to happen.
That said, there are many very good schools out there. Visit them, talk with the Sensei and sit through a couple of classes before signing up.
A couple web sites to check out as a place to start:
http://www.askf.org/
http://www.geocities .com/toyamanewsletter/index.ht ml

Re:One word - Karate

[Anonymous Coward]

>>He'd really changed, too, when we talked. We'd both grown up a lot, and it was a great evening of conversation and reminiscence, and laughter at how stupid we both were.

On behalf of tormented geeks everywhere with similar memories of childhood bullying, please tell us you ended the evening with a warm, friendly handshake... and then you kicked his sorry ass six ways to sunday, just for the fun of it.

Re:One word - Karate

[shadowbearer]

He bought the drinks, and dinner. It wasn't inexpensive. I offered to, but he'd not hear of it. I guess one could consider that getting kicked. I don't. I considered it making peace. After nearly 21 years, it was worth it; considering the circumstances, kicking his ass would have been redundant. I could have. What would have been the point?

There are times in one's life when you just have to let shit go. I did.

SB

Re:One word - Karate

[OSUJoe]

Apology accepted.