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Building Social Skills in Gifted Youths?
UNOStudent asks: "I'm currently a Biotech undergrad at the University of Nebraska-Omaha and have spent the past several semesters mentoring gifted youngsters and have been presented with a challenge this semester. My student is unbelievably smart, however has very limited social skills, is unable to cooperate with peers, doesn't understand why they make fun of his uncombed hair, etc. Since many of us may have grown up in a similar circumstance, I'm looking for suggestions from my fellow geeks on ideas for how to challenge him mentally, while building essential social skills." How would you build social skills in someone more concerned with math, science and computers?
Then he wont need social skills - he can kick the bully's asses and get back to doing what he loves.
There'll be time for girlfriends later (when he's rich), and who the hell said we all *have* to be open, loving marketing types anyway?
You can't expect to wield supreme executive power, just because some watery tart threw a sword at you
Incoming a million "This is slashdot, what's a social skill" jokes....
asking slashdot on social skill questions is like asking a factory worker which distribution of Linux is better.
This is a joke, laugh.
Bored? Why not join a decent mess
You need incentinves. Simply explain that better social skills lead to more sex.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
Divide up the project so that he only has a piece of the puzzle and will fail unless he is able to interact with the other team members to get it to work. Also play lots of games where social interaction is involved to solve the problem, human knots, simple ball games, you know those group building games we all hate.
Visit BobtheKing.com it's perhaps the best thing I've ever made to waste your time with.
This did wonders for my social skills.
Get him into dungeons and dragons. Find a group at a local shop or a campus club that will allow him to join as a newbie.
Most experienced DM's enjoy seeing new players grown and mature while learning and playing the game.
Get him a job dealing with people, and offer some sort of deal for him to get new tech toys to play with as a result. I was once much the same way but after working with people, and being able to reap the rewards, I am now a lot more functional in public than my peers. I've come so far as to hold a fairly decent sales job for my age and location, where I deal face to face with people constantly. Just like getting over your fears of anything else, confrontation is the easiest way to solve the problem. Granted, your student isn't AFRAID of social situations exactly, but I think more interaction would have the desired results.
I mean it. Tell him he might have to wind up running human emotions under emulation if necessary.
Not knowing what the hell is wrong with him will stress him a lot more than having something, anything, he can deal with.
Good luck with this.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
There's the natural course of geek development and we should mess with it as little as possible.
New young geeks should have to wait for beer to develop social skills just like we did.
Comic Book Guy : Someone has mixed an "Amazing Spiderman" in with the "Peter Parker - The Spectacular Spiderman" series. This will not stand.
Woman: Pardon me, but I wish to tender a serious cash offer for this stack of water damaged Little Lulus.
CBG: Huh, "A" that is not water, it is Diet Mr. Pib, and "B" I... (CBG turns to look at the woman) Ohh... Err... Tell me, how do you feel about 45 year old virgins who still live with their parents?
Woman: Comb the Sweet Tarts out of your beard and you're on.
CBG: Don't try to change me baby.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
of course. And the poster above is right about D&D or other role playing games. Heck, there were THOUSANDS of people to socialize with at GenCon!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Give the kid a copy of "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman."
He comes across as an arrogant bastard, but I sure did enjoy the chapter about the intellectual challenge presented by learning how to pick up chicks.
N.b.: Feynman's technique was probably valid in the 50s, and is definitely not useful now. The valuable part is getting this kid to treat "learning social skills" as an intellectual exercise.
I.e., what makes these stupid apes TICK?
Tell him he's just fine the way he is and that the rest of the students will be working for him in 15 years. Those of us on Slashdot with jobs realize that it's more important to be comfortable as yourself than meet someone else's perception of who we should be. In fact, it also works for dating...confidence in yourself is a bigger turn on than a flashy car, big wallet, or "social skills". So, leave the kid alone you schmuck...stop pushing your skewed world view on this poor impressionable youngster.
Get him interested in the booty and he'll clean up his act...or become a mass murderer.
Acting lessons, especially improvisation (comedy or drama).
Acting teaches how to communicate intentions and how to show interest when listening.
Acting can also provide a second social network (with people just as interested in role playing as you, except without silly costumes), with few social interconnections to the tech social networks (so you get to be a social hub.)
Have him play a team sport! Get him outside and away from the text books for a change.
Mod point free since 2001
Being a genius is one thing and it can get you ahead in life, but it's nothing if you can't deal with people (look at Jobs and the Woz, for example).
Even in modern programming, no one man can tackle enormous projects - we break things into functions and into parts and put them together.
Being ethnically different, "smart" (so said my K-12 schools, but college makes me doubt it), and by nature and culture alternately shy and arrogant, I've had to work to A) get to know people and B) work with them instead of going off on my own.
I say you give him group assignments where he has to work with other people (programming seperate functions in a larger program). Also, for kids, the great equalizer is video games - I've been playing Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles for a while and that game really emphasizes team work and people talking together.
"There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter," Jeeves, (Jeeves and the Impending Doom)
...because ultimately it's up to him to do the learning. Unless he's asking you for help (which I doubt; this isn't an episode of "Saved by the bell") he's going to have to figure it out for himself, which includes him figuring out that there's something to figure out in the first place.
:)
Ultimately, the motivator for him to learn social skills will be other kids interacting with him in a positive way, and you can't force that. What you CAN do, however, is get him in social situations where his brains will be considered an asset.
For instance, set up class lab activities that require teams of four, and make sure these activities require serious brains to complete. Sometimes, he should be in charge of picking people for his team; sometimes he shouldn't. Does this mean he might get chosen last? Sure, until a lazy and popular kid decides it's better to have this smart kid doing his work for him. Once your smart kid is selected by the popular kid, and they get an 'A' AND get done early because of it, he'll be considered an asset.
The flipside to that, of course, is that the other kids will initially be using him. The thing is, learing that you're being used and learning how to deal with it is as important a social skill as any other, so while it's painful in the short term it's beneficial in the long term.
Also, you'll be giving popular and lazy kids a reason to view him in a more positive light, which is a good lesson for them.
See if you can get him or her to join a group outdoors activity like camping. Not necessarily something as formal as scouting. In fact, the less formal, the better.
Nature offers some fun science and a chance to develop other areas of interest. Being a part of a camping group is a good way to learn to interact, because everyone has a responsibility (get water, collect wood, etc.) and kids learn their individual responsibilities contribute to the groups well-being. Good adult guidance is a must.
Worked great for the English as a Second Language class that joined my high school outings. And most of them came to the midwest from much warmer climes.
The best way to build social skills is to get them involved in a group of people who actually -care- for them as a friend. The rest is easy.
(sad story, warning)
When I was a kid, I was the fat, alkward kid who nobody liked. I was never able to get over my alkwardness until I found a friend, Melissa (Mel) who accepted me as I was.
Most of the time, these "socially enept" people are only socially enept because society has turned them away.
If you want these people to be socially acceptable, try accepting them first.
Not that I'm cool or anything now, but I do have friends, people who I care about and care about me. Popularity isn't everything. Friendship is. Thank God for friends.
Jay | http://oldos.org
Honestly, the best thing to do is wait until high school and then get the youngster into smoking pot. Nothing relieves tensions and motivates social interaction, especially among the gifted, like a good old fashioned bong hit.
-B
Blake
Social interaction is very similar to knowing a foreign language, reading, etc. If you don't start early in life, it become increasingly difficult later once you want to pick it up. The fact of the matter is that there are small minded people everywhere and it is an essential part of social interaction. Not knowing how to deal with such people at an early age will tend to make a person antisocial as they grow up.
Remember, if they were like everyone else they wouldn't be gifted.
Recalling from personal experience, I am by most definitions a dork and have been one since I picked up my first book in life.
As a general rule I was more inclined to read books than socialize granted that was all I knew. Everyone would want to talk about the latest fad or trend and I just simply was never interested. Whenever company was over, I'd just simply ignore all that and go to my room and read. I had few friends in my life, mostly those I could relate to. Aside from the occasional bully, I was happy socially.
However my stepmom couldn't stand that being a social giant. I was to relate to everyone and anyone. She would constantly drag me out of my room and try and get me to talk to people. I never did out of spite, mostly just clamming up or worse being nasty to anybody she tried, until I could get back to my book (and later computer games). I was not a pleasant conversationalist when forced like that. Therefore I question the value of corrective action against a socially dis-inclined person.
For what it's worth tho, I'd like to think I turned out normal. I'm the first of my brothers to get married (well in 2 weeks anyways). Generally people say I relate well to others. However you generally find me talking to people I can relate with intellectually rather than people who are more inclined to talk about the latest "survivor" episode or some other gunk (I didn't even watch the Super Bowl!). However I can BS my way through anything if needed, for exapmle a job interview or performance review, etc.
Your turn to rant!
...in bed
The lesson is that social interaction doesn't require a major breakthrough. Slowly build up your confidence and you'll be amazed at the results which follow.
I doubt the idea of having social skills is new to him. He is who he is, and if you want him to be somebody else maybe you're the one who should change.
What I saw missing from my geeky friend's social skill set was empathy. They knew they were different and smarter than the rest, and they liked being smarter. Made them cocky, and they looked down upon the rest. The more they were teased, the more they withdrew, and the more they looked down on their tormentors. So how does empathy help? Look, these are smart kids and they can be reasoned with that they are going to have to spend a lifetime among people not as smart as they are. There is no getting around that unless you become a near hermit. So wouldn't it be smart to try to see themselves as others see them?
Yeah, who cares if you comb your hair anyway? Aren't there more important things in life, and besides people shouldn't judge me by my outer appearance! True, all true. But you know what? They do and they will. So does it make a difference whether or not your hair is combed? If no one cares, no. If people do care, yeah, it causes hassles for you that can so easily be avoided by a 30-second brush with a comb. Not hard, appeases the ignorant. Comes in handy if you ever have a job interview (and you will want one someday, won't you?).
Empathy allows you to think through the other person's eyes. Yeah, they aren't as smart as you, but they can't fully help that (biology and all that) and yet they are still humans with as much right toward dignity and respect as you would want for yourself. Apperances and actions shouldn't matter in a perfect world where intellect was all that counted, but we don't live in that world. We do have to interact with people who judge us for all the wrong reasons. Isn't it smart to spend just a minimal amount of effort to smooth our way in life? If you are perceived as a jerk by others, no matter how invalid the reason may be, it will cause friction in your life.
The smart person sees that friction coming and heads it off with a few simple social tricks that fool the ignorant. It's great as a party trick too!
Isolating children from peers and reality is not a good way to impart social skills. Communicating to them from a young age that they're special and better than other people is a negative towards producing functional adults.
Social skills are built through experience, now from memorizing a set of strategies for coping with the stupidity of other people. If part of that is learning to deal with people who don't like you (for any reason), well, that's life.
I see this sort of idiotic reasoning as crappy self-justification, sort of an "I'm better than everyone and that's why they hate me". People who adopt this sort of view are walking down a dangerous road towards more isolation (and probably the things that go with it, like depression or other psychological problems). It's the wrong way to go.
And I know of whence I speak -- I got my ass kicked on occassion in grade school. I had to deal with all the names and other bullshit. But hey, that's life. Learning to deal with advesity is what makes a person who they are.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
While some social skills are required to work and live, try not to over teach these skills. While I realize that being able to sit down and BS with the boss at work may be helpful to yourself, I think it actually hurts the rest of us. Think about it. If no one had the "social skills" to suck up to management, they would have nothing else to base their impressions on except for work ethic, etc. Teaching a child that making fun of ones hair makes sense just supports the behavior. I don't know exactly how to explain what I'm getting at, but social skills are what create PHBs, politicians, etc. Please spare them this fate. It may be a misrable future, but at least it's one with morals, values, and right on one's side!
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
A pulse.
How old is the student you are working with? Is he old enough to care about girls and the pleasures they offer, or would karate or some other martial art be more appropriate? Oh yeah, and how well do you think a buch of geeks would be able to answer the question in the first place. If we cared about how not to be a geek, we wouldn't be reading Slashdot.
Just let him be to his books and thoughts. He may have more important things to accomplish and being social isn't one of them. Newton never got laid for instance. Just make sure he takes baths.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
Ausbergers syndrome - learn it, know it, ask yourself if it applies here. It is similar in nature to Autism (think of RainMan but really watered down, almost to the point of it being questionable as to whether or not he is / is not affected.)
... while being totally socially inept?
Do the youthes you are talking about have amazing technical skills, wonderful (photographic) memories, the ability to empathize with the computer
Anyways, it is worth understanding.
Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
I wouldn't try to build social skills in these geeks. Some of our greatest minds in history had negligible social skills which contributed to the free time needed to achieve greatness. What if Linus Torvalds spent all his free time playing pool? Would we have the light bulb had Thomas Edison been a party animal? I think not.
Unknown host pong.
Having very recently been one of the intelligent but socially inept youths, I can give some thoughts on what did and didn't work for me, and what might have worked better:
Find social situations in that child's area of interest. Online forums are a great place to exchange ideas, pose questions, and give answers, and intelligent young people like to feel like they can be on a peer level with adults. You can find a free online forum for almost any area of interest these days.
I also highly recommend MUDs, a text-based multiplayer online game that is extremely socially based. There are hundreds out there, and most are free - check out http://www.mudconnect.com.
Get them engaged in group activities - theatre is a great way to give intelligent kids a way to express their creativity while working together. It also builds confidence in front of an audience.
Debate teams are another way to give kids a chance to use their intelligence in a social situation, and build confidence in their ability to speak their thoughts and to be heard while being polite and having regard for the other side's opinion.
Public speaking classes and/or groups are another good way to build confidence. And this confidence will still help in one-on-one situations.
And last, but not least, a job or internship is another great way to build social skills - you're forced to interact with your co-workers on a social level and to get your job done. If you can't, you don't have a job. Plain and simple.
[Z?]
and to type this all without sounding too aloof.
;) im not a psychological expert for sure.
I think the major diff between smart people and dumb people is that dumb people don't have to think about everything so analytically. that's not to say there aren't smart people who can think analytically about social situations, but just that is something that takes time to develop. Also not to say all smart people develop the ability to emulate social skills either.
my opinion is that in smart people, social skills is a developed trait, while in most people, they don't have to think about it because they aren't focused enough to let it get above suboncious level.
when you're a kid, there hasn't been time yet. kids aren't really rational about anything, even the smartest ones. myself at the time included, even tho i thought i knew it all.
my best advice would be to sit him down and try to explain in an analytical way how social skills are just another thing for him to dominate his peers in. i think that would've motivated me more, before i had figured out that I had to teach myself how to emulate the social skills that appear relevant in others, yet lacking in smart people.
but who knows honestly
Wishful thinking, but none of these 3 are usually possible. I think the best thing you can do is spend time with your kids doing what they like to do. Most of these kinds of kids don't have friends who like what they like so at least they have a parent supporting them. Beyond that, make sure they have fun. A depressed kid, especially if they're gifted, is going to get jaded really quick. Since they can't necessarily have social fun, at least ensure they can have fun doing their thing. In time they'll just naturally attract others who see value in those things and the social part will work itself out. If they're having negative experiences with other kids don't ignore it. Make sure you tell them it's not the way things should be and then take action to stop it. Don't make the kid deal with negative experiences alone because they're incapable. Don't baby either, but make sure the right environment exists as much as possible.
Find a school for gifted and talented kids (some states have 'em) and get him to apply. Find a summer camp for him to go to (e.g., math camp, science camp, computer camp, chess camp) that will be populated w/kids like him. Get him in some kind of peer group.
I hope this isn't too obvious.
John.
The way I started to get stuff like this was to make use of my intellectual and analytic strengths to get a theoretical understanding of what was going on, and then to approach it like a naturalist studying a foreign species. Then as I figured things out, I practiced, praticed, and practiced some more.
A book I found helpful on the theoretical side were Chimpanzee Politics, a detailed study of political struggle in a colony of chimps. Once I got how this stuff worked in our nearest relatives, a lot of previously mysterious human behavior made more sense to me. Another fantastic one is Impro, a book about improvisational theater which contains some great material on exactly how humans express some of the monkey stuff, how to become more aware of it, and how to do it on stage.
Also helpful are books on body language and flirting (e.g., this one, but there are a ton of them). All of this reading should be combined with observation. TV and movies are a great place to start; the signals are obvious, and you can rewind and slow-mo to help get it. But there's nothing like the real world: classrooms, cafes, and bars are a big help, too.
But there's nothing like practice. It's best to start practicing stuff in a safe environment, possibly by role-playing with friends, teachers, or counsellors. If he easily gets flustered or frustrated when trying this in real life, it's worth talking to a psychiatrist to see if they can help; problems like social anxiety, attention defecit disorder, and depression can interfere in both learning and performing.
Another way to make use of the geeky side is to have him come up with procedures and rituals for things other people do naturally. E.g., have him write up the checklist for the rituals he must perform (brushing his teeth, coming his hair) before he goes into the monkey cage (i.e. classroom). He might also be excited by using high-tech tools (like using the computer to record and catalog of himself and others doing normal social things).
One tip: Somebody who spends all their time on geeky pursuits will be used to learning things quickly. They must be prepared that in this, progress will come very slowly. It's a whole different kind of intelligence. A good popular read on the science behind it is Emotional Intelligence.
Good luck!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Raves, and the Marine Corps.
Not joking.
"Asberger's Syndrome" describes me fairly well, but I don't have the depression bit of it and I do take a holistic approach. However, I contend that the syndrome is an artificial side effect of too narrow a view of "normal". It basically says if you're not a Jock or a Cheerleader, there's something wrong with you. This is, of course, crap.
In any given community there is a core group of people that think the same, act the same and think of themselves as normal. They are, in fact, the freaks. The vast majority of people in the world are in fact distinctly different from every other person on the planet due to their genes, their upbringing or some other event.
Trying to be the same as this core group of freaks is a significant cause of depression, since it's actually impossible. So, don't mention "Asberger's Syndrome", never imply that there's anything wrong with being different. Everyone is better than you at something.
"I've found that as intelligence increases, happiness often decreases. Look, I even made a graph! ... I make a lot of graphs."
- Lisa Simpson
(Yes, I was diagnosed as "gifted" when I was a kid. They should have NEVER told me...)
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Well speaking as someone who experiences this everyday I'd say they need a mentor or some role model to explain how socializing works. When someone says "hi" you say "hi" back, and smiling helps too. They may not know this, it sounds like they should know how to act but maybe they never learned.There is a time limit. I always think of it like those children who were abused and locked up by thier parents. They never learned to speak and by the time they were rescued it was too late because thier brains couldn't handle speech.
BTW you don't have to be super smart to be shy, I think that glamorizes it and makes a happy ending. What if you were just of average intelligence, would someone want to help someone like that?
A new word should be invented instead of "shy" it is so common it's lost all meaning. It doesn't even hint at the incredible pain experienced by people who suffer it.
Quite frankly, the teacher should be more concerned about the bullies; the smart kid isn't the problem, the bullies are. Why?
They usually turn out to be complete rejects as far as society goes; violent neanderthals, basically. Everyone looks the other way until BAM, they hit the real world and suddenly end up in jail for bashing their girlfriend's head against the wall(unless they happen to make it big in sports). Meanwhile, the geek suffers and may be secluded, but ultimately contributes to society in ways the ape never could have.
The solution here is to be strict with punishing the kids that pick on him. Johnny makes fun of him for not combing his hair? Johnny gets a time-out and a talk about how we're all different people, and we need to accept those who are different from us. Children start out as pretty accepting- but in the early years they can either learn it's really NOT ok to pick on other people, or they can get away with it, feel slightly good about themselves, and keep doing it. Learning to accept others makes them far more likely to succeed in school and particularly in the workplace(ie, "team players").
Please help metamoderate.
While being related to that, you could also say the child could be dyspraxic and dyslexic, as I am.
In what has been described in the blurb, I see what I was when I joined year 7 at my UK school.
The best way I coped with social situations was literlly to relate them to computer programming. Each individual is an object, they have the same properties, but diffrent values.
The best way to socialise with one another is to exchange the diffrent values you have and try to find similar ones. When you do, its best to follow the similar ones, and thus you can become friends with them.
If they have diffrent values but express intrest in the ones you have, you could show them about that value. Thus you have also made a friend through diffrences.
I still find it hard to socialise with girls, however, with time comes perfection, as I currently have a girlfriend.
You need to, without making them feel unwanted or put down by suggestions, make them think a bit about their outwards apperence. Hand them a comb in the morning, and make a small joke about why to use it. (E.g. better look snappy, you never know who might walk through the door - or something similar without the cheeseness).
Do get them tested for all three, both of my points, and the parent posters point, as early diagnosis is very helpfull.
Good Luck
NeoThermic
Use my link above, or to view my server, NeoThermic.com
I met a high school kid a couple of years back who blew away any anti-social geek I've ever known. The /. crowd only *thinks* it's out of the social loop, but trust me, this kid has everyone here beat (the fact you come to this site at all makes you more social and recreational). To begin with, he read no fiction whatsoever. Only text books. High level math and physics. Neither science fiction nor fantasy appealed to him. I wish to god I could remember what he said about the /. site after I pointed him to it.
/. crowd, to really help this kid. You may have no idea why this kid is acting the way he is, so don't try to fix him. He's not an iPod mini. If you screw up and make things worse, it's a person, not a couple hundered bucks, that's lost.
Anyway, I *tried* to get this kid into something that even the geek crowd would think was recreational, but nada. No music, no movies, no video games, no sports (assuming foozball counts as a sport). Sure, he's headed to Yale, and he knows assloads about engineering already (he could talk down to a master's student from GA Tech), but I can't imagine how lonely the guy may one day end up. It's *possible* that he'll meet a girl who'll fall in love with him for what he's like now, but his playing field is severely limited as such. And yes, I understand that his idea of recreation was the things he was into, but it isn't exactly common ground when it comes to finding friends. He basically reminds me of the guy from Sneakers who made robotic dogs, but more limited.
I finally decided that it wasn't my place to help this guy. That might be the case with the student in the article. I personally think that it'll take a psychologist/psychiatrist, and not the
This is step 1. Honestly, I know that it's shallow to judge someone on their looks, but hey, it is something that we have *evolved* over millions of years. People who look better succeed, it is a *fact*.
If the kid is upset that people laugh at his hairstyle, then, duh, maybe he should *change* it?
I honestly don't understand why geeks will get upset when people mock their style.. you have thousands of examples of (halfway) decent style to draw on daily, and you don't have to spend a bundle to be dressed normally for your age group. Unless you are going out of your way to look different on purpose (goth, etc ) there is no need for *looking" like a loser before anyone even speaks to you.
This year when i run it, ill be sure to have it running more smoothly (as i ran it for only 2 semesters for the first time) and hope to allocate some more funding for extra parts from my "budget"
Hope this gives the original poster some idea's as to what to do with a little bit of creativity.
We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
"Asperger Syndrome or (Asperger's Disorder) is a neurobiological disorder named for a Viennese physician, Hans Asperger, who in 1944 published a paper which described a pattern of behaviors in several young boys who had normal intelligence and language development, but who also exhibited autistic-like behaviors and marked deficiencies in social and communication skills. "
By Barbara L. Kirby
Founder of the OASIS Web site (www.aspergersyndrome.org)
Co-author of THE OASIS GUIDE TO ASPERGER SYNDROME (Crown, 2001)
You can never equivocate too much.
but a bit simplistic, as a short post must necessarily be.
You won't be able to keep him away from bullies... they abound, and show a certain cunning in oppressing others. Far better a strategy may be found in your second point... teach them how to deal with these types until such time as the legal system offers remedies against the bully's physically assaultive behavior (I doubt too many geeks fear verbal sparring matches with these goons; as the quicker mind tends to prevail). It might also give them some experience with enduring pain and hassle... a valuable trait.
As for getting them laid early in life... I may be in the minority on this one, but caution is definitely in order. If you make their first sexual experience involve some Thai prostitute, you'll forever warp their expectations and impressions about intimacy. No bullsh*t... those experiences are emotionally powerful, and you tend to remember them. Depending on how you interpret those memories, they can become emotional baggage that affects your relationships with future partners.
Sex is a powerful thing... best let him save himself until such time as he can make his own conscious decisions about it, and has the maturity to handle it.
Some of our Slashpervs may, of course, disagree.
Even if a man chops off your hand with a sword, you still have two nice, sharp bones to stick in his eyes.
Believe me, I went through this in a major way, since I grew up in a sports-loving-intellectual-hating public school. Here's what helped me break out of it:
1) The kid should make no apologies for his brains. Unfortunately, many such kids are bright enough to realize that people like you if you're stupid, and thus try to act like an idiot to try to make friends.
2) Show the kid that social issues can be solved just like mathematical and scientific problems. Individual people, especially children aged 8-12, are pretty easy to predict, so encourage the kid to try experimenting with various approaches, changes in appearance, etc, and noticing how each classmate reacts. You might try having the nerd take notes and create a report findings to the teacher, and if their not inflammatory, to the rest of the class.
3) Provide opportunities for the kid's intelligence to be used to the benefit of classmates in a context which matters to them. For instance, give them a mathematical puzzle to solve as a group with a reward based on how quickly they can do it. Suddenly a nerdy kid becomes useful, and everybody's friend.
4) Make sure the kid knows that eventually the nerds win. Big time. They control almost everything, from sciences to many businesses to sports teams to governments. Also make it clear that bullying is a sign of weakness, not strength.
5) Let him find some nerdy friends. They often exist.
-------------
Here are some ideas which you should never ever ever try:
1) Don't blame the nerd for bullies. Teaching a nerd not to be a victim is fine, but to blame the nerd is to tell him that you support the bullies. Dumber kids might not see that connection, but a nerd definitely will.
2) Don't give the nerd self-help books. That just encourages more reading and less social behavior, which makes matters worse.
3) Don't force the nerd to spend time with a particular classmate. The nerd doesn't enjoy it, because the classmate is clearly pretending to be a friend, while the classmate immediately resents the nerds presence because it was imposed by an adult. No one wins.
I am officially gone from
The first thing you really need to make him understand is that the number of people out there who are really interesting and motivated to learn is pretty small, and those who he meets should be valued--but since most people out there aren't terribly interested in being serious intellectuals, he needs to be able to function with them. If he's interested in economics, introduce it as an opportunity cost argument. If not, maybe introduce it to him as a prisoner's dilemma *grin*?
He doesn't need to embrace the culture of his peers, he just needs to find things that interest him that create lanes of communication. I know I wasn't interested in football when I first got to Michigan (I grew up in NYC and attended Stuy), but I quickly realized that it was something that allowed you to chat with a lot of people, and since I've always enjoyed sports, I took the time to learn a lot about it. This doesn't mean that he has to do some rote memorization job so he has something to talk about, it just means he should look into what his peers are interested in, and if any of it interests him, he should take the time to learn about it (his way).
His peers will be interested in chatting with him, and knowing him, if he can discuss the subjects they are interested in talking about it in a novel and interesting way for them. If he's smart, and interested in coming up with novel ways of thinking about things, I doubt he'd have a problem with doing this.
Your student has to understand that we have to function in the world of our peers--whatever that is. Maybe he'll eventually become an academic and be able to lock himself up in an ivory tower, or some cube farm with a whole bunch of other people that are interested in programming. But until he gets to that point, it makes sense to at least try to understand his surroundings rather than trying to make them understand him. Ask him if he thinks its easier to understand him, or its easier for him to understand his class mates?
Unfortunately not very many of us can surround ourselves completely with people who all share our interests, but I've certainly had a lot more fun socially trying to get engage myself in what my friends and aquaintances are interested in, instead of just trying to engage them in my interests.
If he needs a jump start, try getting him to do something, whether its cutting his hair, wearing jeans (or not wearing jeans), etc, that you know he thinks *I* can't do that, but is actually something minor... He's probably backed himself into a niche with his peers that will take him some effort to widen.
I have two kids with mild Asperger's, and it probably comes from my side of the family. Here are a couple of things I've learned:
* There are extroverts and introverts. Introverts gain energy from being alone; extroverts gain energy from talking with others. It's good to know both kinds of people, but don't forget what is good for your soul.
* The outdoors are a wonderful place. Endless miracles everywhere. Getting away from the modern world allows space for the quiet mind. The whole world slows down.
* Activities that don't require verbal communication, such as gardening, hiking, foraging, tracking, fishing, etc. are a blessing.
* Be happy with the special gifts you have; stop worrying about whether you measure up to everyone around you. It's wonderful to be different.
* There are plenty of quiet people; you just have to realize that these are the people you want to be around and seek them out.
* Be extra careful with intense relationships. Don't be careless about sex; being a parent is often very tough if caregiving is not part of your upbringing.
Having never taken a martial art, I don't know how effective they are. However, an alternative is to start running. Running has to be one of the best physical activities, and can be done throughout your entire life.
If the school has a cross country team, (especially if it is no-cut, like mine was), then that may be the perfect way to get involved with peers in an activity. It certainly opened me up more to other people and was one of the best decisions I ever made.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it dissolve.
I have a cousin whose parents always labeled him as "too good" for sports (so of course he ended up believing that, too). So, now not only has he never played a sport, but he looks down on people who do.
Just recently, he applied to one of the better acting schools in California. When he didn't get in, he threw a hissy fit worthy of a six year old -- stomped around the house, yelled at his folks, cried, made quasi-abusive calls to the college demanding to talk with the people in admissions, etc. This wasn't one night, either; this went on for months.
Simply put, he doesn't know how to lose. Or, maybe more specifically, he doesn't know how to react in a positive way when things don't fall the way he wants them to. All his life he's been sheltered from competition and told that he's gifted and better than everyone else and all the other crapola that parents in the 80's pushed on their kids, so when something happens to challenge this point of view he falls to pieces.
So, instead of getting a spot at another school and working on a transfer, he's convinced himself that the people in admissions are threatened by his talent and that they don't deserve him. When the school year starts, he'll be working part time at a coffee shop in San Francisco instead of going after his dreams.
Anyhow, when/if I have kids, you can bet they'll play something. Soccer, baseball, football, whatever -- aside from the other benefits of physical activity, I think it's a valuable place to learn how to deal with adversity (aka, lose).
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Since we don't actually know much about this kid, the best I can do is try to address some common problems.
First, the kid is smarter than just about everyone around him. Way smarter. You know it. He knows it. Make sure that he understands that just about everyone else already knows it as well, and those who are too dumb to recognize it aren't worth impressing. So he doesn't need to beat them over the head with the fact.
Tact is often 90% of the battle. People who are intellectually gifted but socially maladapted tend to be insecure about it, and will retreat into whatever they feel they excel at. So it's pretty frequent that "the smart guy" is the one who ends up jumping down peoples' throats over minor errors. It's not a good friend-winning strategy, but people tend to build themselves up by tearing others down.
So, he has this brain on him. How to get him to use it for good instead of evil? How about teaching him how to tutor his classmates? If you can drill into his head that he needs to be forgiving of mistakes, and compliment people for their effort, it could lead to some positive interactions. For geeks his age, positive social interactions are often few and far between.
Fashion shouldn't be too hard. He doesn't need the $50 jeans or the $200 shoes. Just throw away everything that's too threadbare, or actively hideous. The goal isn't to turn him into a GQ model, but to simply raise his fashion sense to the point that his clothes aren't a limiting factor. The same goes for hygiene. Get him to do something with his hair. Doesn't much matter what.
He might want to take up weight lifting or running or cycling. Something to give him a bit of confidence in his own body. Karate might be cool as well. If he can find something he enjoys in the way of team sports, all the better.
Now the word we've all been waiting for: Girls. I can't say I'm wise in their womanly ways, but let's get a few of the serious no-no's out of the way. Treat them with respect, show interest in their hobbies, don't insult their friends, and for god's sake, don't bitch and moan about how girls all want guys who treat them like dirt. That attitude is both insulting and wrong, and I've seen way too many guys who do it. Occasionally, it's true, but far more often it's just a defensive measure to keep the guy from having to evaluate what he did wrong.
Find something he likes, and find a way for him to get others involved in it (even if it's "just" his fellow geeks).
Just remember that you won't be able to do anything without his cooperation. If he's totally stubborn, help him with the scholastics and hope that he figures the rest out on his own.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
If we are talking about grammar school children, explain that people like those who are clean, smelling good, and have a sense of humor.
If we are talking about teenagers, sex is really the right answer. Not that I advocate actually getting him laid, but let's not ignore the fact that the desire to reproduce is the second strongest desire in all of nature, just under survival. Like it or not, in order to be attractive to women (or even men) you must be clean, sociable, and being in decent shape doesn't hurt. Most intelligent people would be with you on that this is a good course of action, the problem is how to be sociable.
I don't advocate D&D any more than I do cocaine. It's addictive and ends up introducing you to more people with no social skills. LUG's, Magic, theater, and comicon are all right there with it. The goal is to interact with people who are outside your social circle and comfort zone. I saw a few good suggestions for this: martial arts, camping (boy scouts), sports.
I am a geek, I am fat, everyone I know describes me as outgoing. The secret was realizing the falseness of "cool" and "popular".
Someone is popular because they are accepted by those who you perceive to be popular. It's in your perception. There is nothing which sets the cool apart from the un-cool other than that individual's self-perception. Once I was able to come to terms with the fact that no one is intrinsically better than me nor more worthy, I was able to break the mental block which kept me in the theater and out of the keggers. Once I quit ranking myself on a scale of what I thought others thought of me, I was able to become what I thought of myself.
Remember that being more intelligent does give you the advantage. You can learn the game, practice it, and become proficient while others are still coming to grips that there is a game at all.
IMHO, there are some people who can be safely ignored for a period of time during early developement.
I grew up in a "tough" school that was VERY anti-intellectual. My graduating class consisted of less than 50% of the people that started High School, many of my "peers" are dead or jailed right now. There are several people that I had run-ins with early in life that I wish I'd have been isolated from. Being young and poorly guided, I fought these people physically, ignored school work to engage in "social" interaction with like-minded individuals (the friend of my enemy is my friend), etc. If I'd simply been sheltered from them, I sincerely believe that I could have gotten involved in much more productive interaction with a more intelligent group in HS than I did. I eventually abandoned my "friends" when I realized I wasn't as intellectually stunted as them, and now I'm more or less on my own in the friendship arena even though there were plenty of equals and superiors that I could have latched on to.
I don't think that sheltering children in the early years is a bad thing. Once they've developed a mature enough stance to be taught how to stand up against bullies, bigots, etc. then they can be introduced to the full gamut of the social strucure. However, you have to remember that these people who display extra intellectual prowess above and beyond their peers are effectively skipping HUGE areas of development that the rest of us have gone through. Getting them involved in more challenging material early on and protecting them is crucial to keeping them involved in that material, in my mind.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Okay...don't tell him to go weightlifting, don't take him to a strip club, don't "get him laid". It's actually much simpler than that. 1.He likes computers, right? Simple...take him to a LAN party (those things are all over every campus in America). Even the biggest introverts open up when placed in a familiar setting with others with similar interests. It reminds me one time at EB, when a friend and I were looking at games. A group of "geeks" walks in and one of them makes a comment about a game my friend and I are talking about. His friends look at him stupid, and he retorts "Hey, I don't have any social skills here...but I'm trying". Well, he had a point...so we ended up striking a conversation with this introvert in a field he was familiar with (video games). Funny things is, the whole bunch of us "socially inept" losers ended up talking about all aspects of life for the next 40 minutes or so, right in the middle of EB. It was one of the most interesting and downright hilarious conversations I've ever had. A real blast actually. Long story short, put him in his element with understanding people, and he'll open up. 2. If/When he applies for a job, if he's expressed to you that he does want to improve his social skills (I was willing to admit mine needed improving), suggest to him that he take some type of cashier posistion or phone position. Any position where he's forced to interact with the common public can only do him good. While working at a printshop last year, I was forced for the first time in my life to talk to complete strangers and make good acquaintances (making friends with customers = customers who will come back). This did me an absolute world of difference. I became more open to strangers (all friends start out as strangers after all) and got rid of my phone phobia. 3. Just be his friend. I don't know how you talk to him now, but try to be especially friendly and open with him. Don't just talk to him about school. Strike up a conversation with him. "Hey'd you hear about that RIAA lawsuit", "How bout' them delaying Half-Life again". Hell, tell him some of them really lame intellectual jokes. Talk to him like you talk to friends on the street, albeit perhaps more technically. He'll open up. It takes a lot of people a long time to open up, but when they get comfortable, they'll run with it. They water may be cold at first, but once you settle in, it ain't so bad. And after a while, he'll take to it like a fish to water. (Sorry for the horrible closing analogies)
INT. A man drinks from a glass of yellow liquid as a friend stands nearby.
Man 1: Yuck. This beer tastes like urine.
Man 2: Bob, that is urine.
INT. Two nerdy high school guys pass a cheerleader in a hallway.
Guy 1: Hi Heather.
Heather acknowledges the greeting by rolling her eyes in disgust. Guy 1 gets an excited look on his face.
Guy 1: She likes me!
EXT. Pitchman stands in front of a strip-mall storefront.
Pitchman: Do you know people like this? People who have absolutely no clue whatsoever?
The camera moves back to show the sign above the store.
Pitchman: Then come to The Clue Center . Our trained staff can help.
INT. An employee and a male patient are sitting in a nice office.
Employee 1: Listen, shmuck, I'm gonna explain it one more time... Everyone can tell it's a toupee.
INT. An employee and a female patient sit at a table with a toy car and a dollhouse on it.
Employee 2: This is a car. This is a house. The house is where you put your make-up on. Not the car. Or this could happen.
The employee rams the toy car into the side of the dollhouse.
INT. Pitchman stands in front of a sign, holding a pointer.
Pitchman: At The Clue Center, we'll teach you how to... think before you act... think before you speak... And for repeat customers, we'll teach you how to just think.
INT. A scientific laboratory where Dr. Melvin Splonk faces the camera.
Splonk: The Clue Center is great. Now that I shower every day, people talk to me... even when they don't have to!
INT. A living room. A plain-looking woman sits on a couch.
Woman: After just one visit to The Clue Center, I stopped waiting for Mel Gibson to call and started dating men who actually know I exist. You guys are wonderful!
CARD. The Clue Center logo, address, and phone number.
Voice Over: If you or someone you love needs a clue. Don't wait. Call The Clue Center now!
Pitchman appears in a box below the logo.
Pitchman: We're the thick-skull experts!
FADE OUT:
Start a happiness pandemic
Ok so a lot of the comments here can be categorised one of the following solutions:
1) Get him sex.
2) Bribe him into behaving more socially (with something that he's interested in) and hope that it takes.
2a) Get him a job. Offer him tech toys for succeeding at it.
2b) Get him into sports (eg. martial arts) and offer him positive reenforcement for social behaviour.
Man am I glad I'm not the child. There are problems with all of these approaches.
1) Getting him sex. If he doesn't succeed you'll just make him feel worse about himself. If you pay for him to get it you're teaching him he's worthless. If he's not straight you'll also do damage pressuring him to conform with society. He may not be emmotionally mature enough to handle sex and all that comes with it. (You could get him suicidal over someone he builds a fantasy over if you're not careful for example). You're actually distracting him from his talent not helping him to fit it. Sexual behaviour has much more to it than learning to succeed at being a preditor. Let the poor kid develop at his own pace, introduce him to people his own age and get his social skills fixed and he'll not need you to be his pimp!
2a) This is only a good plan if he sees the job as worthwhile. He may not see menial labour as being worthwhile just as he probably doesn't see the need to conform. Once again you already know he doesn't have the social skills for normal interaction so why set him up to fail at something he's not ready for. If he doesn't succeed his precious toys you've bribed him with will be out of reach and he'll feel like a complete failure. Give him the social skills first.
2b) A little better IF you can get him interested AND you do something NON-COMPETITIVE. You want to build up his confidence, and you won't do that if he hasn't learnt how to fit in, and deal with succeess and failure first. Getting him interested MAY be very very difficult though, and if you force it he'll see you as the enemy as well.
Honestly what you want to do is find a hobby HE would be interested in that has a social aspect -something with a technical aspect would be ideal. Examples are boating, kite flying, photography. Try to stay away from PURELY technical hobbies like electronics, computing, sciences that tend to attract mostly males. He'll find his way into those himself. The ideal is something that both sexes participate in so he gets exposure to both men and women who do think differently (Note this is not to get him laid - this is to teach him to interact).
Now you need to sit him down and explain to him what the advantages are of interacting well. He won't be picked on, he'll make friends, aquaintances and collegues that will want to help him etc. If he's so inclined, tell him that you want him to play act the role of someone who'd fit in with people to see how people will behave - call it an experiment (but be sure he understands not to treat other people as lesser beings that aren't significant).
At the end of the day your best bet is going to be to get him to see that a small effort and getting into the habit of being more social will bring huge rewards in and of itself.
it isn't easy, but you always
a) Need to make him understand you're on his side. He can't feel like you're the enemy.
b) Emphasise the positive but do also point out the negative.
c) Correct him gently explaining why things don't work and how he could do things differently to feel more at ease and make people around him feel more at ease. Remember he doesn't have your social skills so what's obvious to you may not be to him.
Good luck. Not an easy one.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
"I'm currently a Biotech undergrad..."
Then why are you making decisions regarding this person's social skills? Did someone ask you to decide if his social skills needed changing? Did his parents thell you they are and ask you to do so? I'm certain you're trying to be helpful, but helping someone who hasn't asked for it (or who didn't have someone in authority ask for it on their behalf) is called paternalism. It's disrespectful to the individual and/or the person's parent(s) or guardian(s).
If anyone needs to learn some social skills, it's the little bastards who won't leave the kid alone, as he obviously prefers. If he's that smart, he'll probably figure out just fine on his own how to behave around others, if he decides it's important enough for him to do so. If I were in your place I would simply serve as a role model for those other kids by accepting him as he is.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Or if that's not his thing, and he isn't scared off by the new-agey fringers, yoga can work, too. Not for ass-kicking, but for getting in tune with his body, which, if he's a typical geek, is way out of whack.
One of the best insights I remember from Coupland's Microserfs was the talk about a geek's disconnection from his/her body. How it's just this thing we pay little attention to, and consequently, it does not serve us well. I'm a runner, too, but while that works on a stress-reduction level, I don't think it puts you in tune as well as a more precise discipline such as martial arts or yoga.
Beyond some frank discussion (everyone needs someone to tell them the truth about stuff), however, what more can you do? You can only do so much. In truth, a woman will change him -- for the better, if she's a good one. Let's face it, guys are extreme, and admirable for being extreme. We can live off very little and get by, and that lends itself to all kinds of single-minded dedication, and thus achievement, but women tend to bring temperance to what they touch. (again, the good ones). Just my $.02
Social skills are a two way street. Make sure that the people around him are interacting with him, too.
Today, I am a fairly stereotypical introverted nerd. However, I have heard from my family that I was actually a fairly extroverted kid.... until school. There I committed three sins: I was ugly (a tooth issue not diagnosed correctly until later), uncoordinated and couldn't play sports well (just nearsighted enough to ruin my depth perception, also undiagnosed for many years), and I knew stuff (could already read and do simple arithmetic in kindergarten). Hattrick.
I'm sure I wasn't a social wonder in kindergarten, but who is? My point is, I never had a chance. Now I'm introverted. What choice did I have?
Mind you, I'm happy enough with the outcome; you can't hear my tone so this might sound bitter. It's not; to me this is just how I am, I figured this out years later.
"But what about his hair?" Well, social skills form via feedback, which must be both positive and negative. If a kid is simply ejected from society at a young age, then he's never had an opportunity to learn about hair styling; he literally doesn't know about it. I recall not caring, either. So even to the extent that you may have a kid clueless, it may even be a result, not a cause.
Can society take the whole blame? Beats the tar out of me, but I doubt it. Maybe he's got a light case of Asperger's syndrome... I'm pretty sure I don't, though. But you can't write the effect of his society off, either. I recall trying to reconnect and being firmly ejected over and over.
How does this help? I don't know. Let me know if you find out. Seems people don't get mature enough to allow kids to re-enter society until somewhere around high-school. Getting out of his age group might help.
(Stuff like this makes me strongly sympathetic to the homeschooling system, which often involves significant out-of-age interaction, short-circuiting the need for every kindergarten class to reconstruct society from scratch; is it any surprise they get it so wrong? What do you expect from five-year-olds?)
On my 20th birthday I happened to meet my grade 3-5 teacher in a restaurant over lunch and he remarked how I had survived the social experiment that was my 'gifted class'. It wasn't until I managed to find and keep a girlfriend that I found out I was an arrogant ass-hole (why she's with me I'll never know). Since learning about social skills from my gf, I've discovered that the praise culture that develops in gifted classrooms leads to egomania among the students. Gifted students learn faster/better, but that doesn't make them special. They have other failings that average students may not have. I still have ego problems (I'll do just about anything for praise, and I have real problems internalizing criticism) but I'm better than I was. I don't know how any of what I've said answers your original question, but I guess I'm trying to say that teaching and raising 'gifted' kids is definitely not a solved problem.
I think humbleness is sorely lacking amongst people with talent. When you match humbleness with talent, you get people like Linus Torvalds. Check out this article at Wired. It was linked from the front page of Slashdot a while back but I'm too lazy to look for the link. The first sentence of the article is "Linus Torvalds wants me to believe he's too boring for this story." I kinda doubt someone like ESR would ever be the subject of an article that started out that way. Arrogance is a real problem amongst the geek culture, and I think it's arrogance that stands between many geeks and a thriving social life. I work as a co-op student at a local software company, and I'm fortunate to work with a few bright people--all graduates of computer programmes at a fairly prestigious university. The social lives of my co-workers are just about inversly proportional to their level of arrogance.
Perhaps it is the socially-skilled people who curtail their arrogance, and not the humble people who garner lots of friends--I can't determine causation from correlation--but it's obvious to me that the two attributes go hand in hand, and I think it's telling that my circle of friends has a rather narrow radius whereas my ego sometimes gets stuck on the doorframe.
Ian
What is the great need to 'change' him, so that he 'fits in better' with 'normal people'.
Let the fucking kid be himself, and allow him to be proud of who is is. Allow him to grow into whatever personality he is most comfortable with.
But since we can assume these kids are rather intellectual, perhaps that intelligence bridges the gap into no math/sci categories. Any kid with a slight interest in the humanities could be appealed to on the level of social justice. Sure kids made fun of of us when we were younger, but as persons, we still have a debt to humanity (IMHO). And, to be honest, I see a lot of geek-types who deserve it. Let's face it...we're damn smart, but we can throw that in people's faces a lot...and that's just as uncool as what others did/do to us. So why learn social skills? Because we owe it to others to do so. Plus everyone is right about getting some...that definately payed off. :-)
Every windows user is a sadomasochist.
Seriously. I'm sure that some slashdotters will start saying stuff like, "hang out with like minded individuals", "the other kids are just jealous", etc. However, none of this will really help the kid as much as just combing his hair. In fact if he's smart enough he'll see fitting in as another intellectual challenge. If he's as gifted as you say, then I'm sure he has a lot of interests and ambitions that he can share with his peers. Make him understand that being intelligent in this world is great, but being intelligent, sociable and athletic would put the world at his feet. Your looks, dress and behavior get you in the door but people respect you for your character and intellect. Get him to pay more attention to his clothes, looks and current events. Make sure he knows the latest fads, make him do sports like martial arts, swimming or team sports. Those will build his self confidence as well as health and looks. Just let the kid know that being a well rounded individual will make him appreciate his knowledge of the world so much more then being a closed off hermit. For a kid like that fitting in would be an exercise in self control and intellectual improvement. Nothing would excercise his brain more then understanding those extrememly complex mases of social interaction in a school :). In the end it should be a breeze as long as he is aware of what he's doing. Make it a simple socialogical fact, people want to hang around with winners, those who are good at doing stuff whether it's sports, conversation, or knowldedge. Make him year to excell at those and people will flock to him. Just make sure that he understands that to be successfull and achieve his ambitions he needs to be both intellectually and sociably knowledgable.
It isn't an issue of "being different." The problem faced by children with Asberger's is a sometimes crippling uncertainty about what others expect in social situations. Basic greetings, smalltalk, social formalities, subtext and nuance are all difficult for these children to grasp. The problems easily follow them into adulthood. It is useful to identify this condition because it is possible to help children with Asbergers. Through special instruction, they can be taught to interact confidently and successfully with other children. They can still be themselves, but they can learn to interact more gracefully with their peers. I agree that the condition seems quite common. I'm certain it describes me, and it probably describes many if not most of my friends. I was always very depressed as a child about my own inability to function socially. My "differentness" wasn't what depressed me. I just never knew how to act. It was something I couldn't do. It took me until high school before I figured out enough to even make close friends. Now I read that kids can overcome this. The therapies I've read about simply explain the social graces in laborious detail, with rehearsals and thorough explanations. I think its a great idea. I wish I had that.
"Tell him he might have to wind up running human emotions under emulation if necessary.
Not knowing what the hell is wrong with him will stress him a lot more than having something, anything, he can deal with."
Maybe this is an improper or even crass question, but when exactly did it become popular for everyone to have a pet disorder? It's really quite pathetic. No one is a bit shy anymore, they have Asperger's syndrome, no one feels under the weather for a time, they have chronic fatigue syndrome, no one dreads going to work in a drab boring office tower, they suffer from sick building syndrome etc. If you want to teach him about Asperger's syndrome, do him a bigger favor and also teach him about how certain psychoanalytical trends have all the earmarks of fad diagnoses.
I submit that what you have proposed here is possibly the worst solution to a kids problem of shyness (even if it's to the point of 'painful' shyness). Telling him: you have X syndrome, you better learn to deal with it now so you can start spending the rest of your life "running human emotions under emulation" is downright depressing and gives him an excuse to throw his hands up and essentially absolve himself of any personal responsibility to remedy his situation.
Would it not be better to provide guidance on how to have REAL relationships with people, find friends of his own interest and maybe gradually introduce him to participation in fun activities with his own peer group??
- "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
How did this get modded insightful?
Isolating children from peers and reality is not a good way to impart social skills. Communicating to them from a young age that they're special and better than other people is a negative towards producing functional adults.
My wife had very large breasts in high school. Wasn't her fault, it was those damn hormones. She had the biggest boobs in school.
High school boys would routinely try and make "3 pointers" down her blouse at school. It got to the point where she begged her mother to let her enroll in an all girls private catholic school.
At the all girls school, nobody kicked anyones ass, unless they wanted suspension. Everyone wore uniforms so there were no "fashion cliques", no "Jocks", no "nerds" Everyone was study focused and oriented, balanced with studies on religion and philosophy.
After that she never had any problems again. Before I met her I always thought it was bad to send kids to private schools, being that I went to all public myself. After hearing her experience though, I would have to agree with her. I wouldn't hesitate to isolate my daughter from a "problem" group
I will point you to a well-reasoned essay by Paul Graham entitled Why Nerds Are Unpopular.
Teach the kid how to throw a wicked right hook. The other kids will stop making fun of his hair and start cooperating with HIM (the way it should be if he's the smart one) within the week, guaranteed.
`which fortune`
I hate to admit this as an unemployed geek who hates wage slavery, but I think young geeks will learn social skills if they get a job working with the public. I was a geek in high school and one of my first jobs was at a theme park. When you have to work with the public, you learn social skills prety fast. But I had to get a job in order to pay for things I wanted, so I'm also wondering if part of the problem is parents who give their geek kids money and toys. There is little incentive to get a job when mom and dad give you money for the latest computer equipment.
...within.
:)
:)
;)
For me growing up there were two things that helped.
The first has been mentioned alot, sport; specifically martial arts and cricket... I also cycled but that did little for social skills
However, the thing that helped most as a young teenager was when a mentor encouraged me to build a model, a mental macro if you will, of "normal" social behaviour. I then would run this model as a simulation before taking action (for a bright kid, this is a brief second or so of introspection before answering); It worked fantastically well (I managed to integrate with a large number of peers rapidly after learning this technique).
Neurotypicals are fairly consistent in their social responses, I still dont *get* social politics, I doubt I ever will, but I can *predict* (predict isn't the best word, approximate, perhaps) the response to an action or comment based on past observations and this "mental macro"; and most of social interaction is based on acting and concealing the truth/opinions in any case, one of the first things I observed was the greatest negative response came when I answered polite interogatories with truth/fact (how do I look? what do you think of my new *insert object*?) etc
Of course, this assumes you are dealing with an Asberger's case like myself or something similar.
You will still encounter gifted neurotypicals who have no inherent deficiency in relation to social interaction, they are just to arrogant and inconsiderate to care either way... people like this can't be helped.
Of course, I could just be full of shit
hope this helps
err!
jak
One of the things about D&D that helped me to realize that my social skills were lacking at the time I started playing it was the character stats.
When the DM went over the stats, and what they were for, and *WHY* the stats mattered in the game, he helped me to think, what would *MY* stats be, and how would that affect my game - or more accurately, real life.
Once they begin to realize that social skills (or Charisma for the D&D analogy) are important, you can direct them to resources such as Dale Carnagies "how to win friends and influence people". The thing is, you have to give them a reason to want to have social skills. At a certain stage they probably are vhemently against developing social skills because of just how different they are.
Get them to realize why "charisma" is important, and they will be intelligent enough to start researching this stuff on their own. D&D is not a bad way to start.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
since "social skills" appear to involve mocking people that are different to you, you're better off without them
Looks like someone has a case of sour grapes.
Social skills involve postively interacting with other people. For some social groups (evidently the only type you've been witness to) this can mean criticizing those outside the group; but not all are like this, and social skills do not only involve large groups.
Just teach the kid how to be polite
Which is a social skill.
We need social skills to go through life. I've dealt with physical, as well as social handicaps, and I can assure you that social handicaps were the hardest to overcome. Ignoring them, or pretending that social skills are not necessary will only ensure that the child is unhappy for the rest of his life.
if they were like everyone else they wouldn't be gifted.
Yes, but just because they're gifted doesn't mean that they have to be social outcasts.
A very real fact about humans and most other animals: image matters. All the desire for fairness doesn't matter.
Bad social skills produces cognitive dissonance in regular folks, just like bad facts produces it in geek kind. This is important because geeks need to communicate some important ideas to society at large, but so long as society is concentrating on your too tight raggy T-shirt, or the unkempt hair, they don't hear your message.
It's not just that you aren't like them. No one talking to Richard Feynman would have thought he was "just a regular guy". But he communicated very well, so people listened. And a big part of that communication is presentation.
Elitest talk, snide remarks, ignorance of audience reaction (eyes glazing, nervous glances away, etc.), unkempt appearance, all these things tell the people you are talking to that you dislike them.
They'll dislike you right back, and worse, they won't give you money.
The ubergeek who is designing NOC's and getting multimillion dollar budgets to do it is someone who can talk to the suits, who can even wear one and look comfortable. Someone who can make them smile.
Social skills are the API to humans. Ignore them at your peril.
All the technology in the world won't hide your lack of vision, talent, or understanding.
Of course, being a fencer, I'm highly biased. :)
The advantages are that (1) geeks love swords, (2) there's no temptation to use it in a fistfight, and (3) in my experience, there are always hot chicks in fencing classes. :D x 1 million
#define sig "Every social system runs on the people's belief in it."
In Rain Man, it is the autistic savantism that is documented, NOT Asperger's. Here are the basic facts, of which you are obviously unaware:
1) Autism is a neurological disorder that is generally present from birth, and includes debilitating symptoms, such as heightened sensory sensitivity (to the point of pain), lack of verbal behavior, and severely retarded IQ.
2) The phenomenon displayed in Rain Man is called autistic savantism, which occurs in approximately 1 in 6 autistic individuals.
3) Savants do not have high intelligence, but rather exceptional specialized skills. This is one of the weaknesses of the film. Almost all autistic savants are still severely retarded, but they have particular skills that are amazing, but not completely out of the bounds of human sensibility. For example, an autistic savants may be able to take one look at a tree, and tell you exactly how many leaves it has on it, instantly. This is because they don't count, like we do, just see, and understand. Something similar, but normal, is the fact that normal people can remember a complex tune after only one listening, and reproduce it. Somehow, our brains are more able to organize auditory phenomena, so that they can be accurately recalled.
Autism is a crippling disease, and is almost certainly not something that this particular child has, or else he would probably find no place in normal schools.
-----[0_o]-----
We are not amused.
My mom did wonders in helping me socially by providing insightful self-esteem building opportuinities at a young age.
Once at the age of 5, I was playing matchbox cars with some of the neighbor kids. Because I was a geeky little kid, something made them start to pick on me. Pretty soon, they had thrown mud all over me and took half of my cars, laughed at me and left. Yeah, I went crying to my mom. But instead of just holding me she took the opportunity to teach me an important social lesson. After wiping my tears, cleaning off the mud and giving me a peanut butter cookie she told me to go right back out there. I was horrified. I wanted to stay in the house by my mom and hide after the humiliation. She made it clear that she would not allow it. Instead, I was to go outside and take two of my cars and pretend to have the time of my life - by myself [early acting incentive?]
Anyway, it worked perfectly. After about 10 minutes of seeing me unaffected by their cruelty, their curiosity drove them to see why I was having so much fun. I let them play with me again, and all of the sudden I was the popular kid.
Later that year, a bully in my preschool class was picking on me and all the other smaller kids. When I told my mom about it, she told me to do the hardest thing once again. Stand up to Goliath. She told me the next time he pushes me to get back up and tell him, "Billy, when you push me down it hurts. Can we be friends instead?" I told my mom I didn't want to be his friend but she wouldn't listen. She showed me some more tough love and made me promise I would do it. Sure enough, the day came and Billy pushed me into one of the girls and I fell down. Choking back tears, I recited the words my mom told me. Billy was shocked. He stammered an apology and we played the rest of the day. He even made me a Christmas ornament later that week.
Those early experiences gave me the confidence to handle similar patterns throughout my geek life. The formula my mom showed me works great, but pattern recognition alone isn't the key - the older people get, the higher base confidence you need to pull these things off.
At least, to some degree. I am still something of an introvert, though lately I simply don't have enough money to go out. (I don't really have enough money to put gas in my car this week.) Before you ask, since broadband costs per month about what it would cost to go to dinner someplace decent once, I don't feel like it's an inappropriate use of my money.
I was considered a "gifted child", I went to a private school only for gifted children for a year and a half or so, before I was apparently kicked out for being violent or something. I have no recollection of the event, besides crying on the way home, and that they gave me a coupon for a free ice cream cone. After that day I went to public school, which was bad from start to finish. They had a GATE ("gifted and talented education" program) which was a sad and pathetic joke. For example, because I was one of the younger students, they wouldn't let me participate in their astronomical pursuits. The only thing I really remember from the GATE program was the speed-reading machine, which looked to be of a fairly ancient vintage, and which has pretty much ruined reading for me because I kill off novels in just a few hours. Now that they're $7 for a goddamn paperback, I can't afford to buy new books, except every so often I'll throw down the money for a nice hardcover - the last two non-textbooks I bought were Cryptonomicon and Quicksilver, can you tell I'm a Stephenson fanboy?
Added to all of this was the fact that my parents split up when I was five, and my father (who is an alcoholic, in recovery, and hasn't touched alcohol except to hand it to one of his sons :) in several years) was not around for most of my development - actually, he wasn't really around for most of the time before I was five, either. We have a great relationship now but that definitely altered who I was, and arguably not for the better. Of course, we'll never know, but one thing it certainly must have done was harm my ability to socialize. In addition my mother was somewhat manic depressive and had her own problems forming attachments and my half-brothers were troublemakers (and only lived in the same house as me for about a year and a half, little of which I remember) so the only male role model I ever had was my "Big Brother" as in Big Brothers and Big Sisters. He was a great guy (Hi, Gary!) who worked for Parallel Systems (I think that was the name, they were someplace in or near Santa Cruz which is where I am from, it was definitely Parallel but I don't remember if it was computing, systems, whatever.)
Now the moment you all are waiting for, the moment where computers enter the picture. Actually throughout this time I had a series of computers. The first one I ever owned was a Commodore 16 which my father got me, he got it "cheap" whatever that meant, probably in trade for something. It had no storage, but it did have the box and the manual, and I fiddled around with BASIC. Gary loaned me his Apple ][+ with two floppy drives for a while, and that was much better. Later, I got a shiny new Amiga 500, and a BSR 1200 baud "phone modem", and the rest, they say, is history.
Back then of course internet access was available only from schools or very expensive services, so I BBS'ed, and made friends that way. I really only had a couple friends growing up, and at this point I had made a few more (like five) from summer school, other ingrates like myself who were of course all intelligent and mostly misunderstood. (A couple of 'em really were violent, thieving little bastards, but they were people that I could get along with for the most part.) But the BBSes were a whole new world in which I could represent myself with words until I had the confidence to meet people face to face and employ my drastically underdeveloped people skills, which like most other skills, improve with use.
One of the people I met through the BBSes was another social inept like myself (he, too, improved greatly over time, partly due to social
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The kind of person who stands out and doesn't fit in will not suddenly become a social creature because he is on a team. What, you think teammates don't give each other immense amounts of shit?
But the sport idea is very good. It doesn't have to be team-based in order to be social. The sports where the person is competing against himself (new high score, faster time, farther distance, etc) fit very well with the mentality. It will hold his interest, put him amongst others who are interested in the same sport but not competing against him for position/whatever, and improve his health to boot.
Martial arts is good. The added self-discipline is a big boost. I recommend fencing myself, but TKD or karate would work just as well. Distance hiking, indoor/outdoor rock climbing, etc, are good. You only need to be 14 to get a sailplane pilot's license in many states, and -- trust me -- that's a serious conversational icebreaker. ("It's a two-seater airplane, but longer, and the wings are thinner and longer, and the whole thing's narrower, and very responsive." [Listener's eyes start to glaze over.] "Oh, and also, there's no engine.")
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
such as the suggestion that those of us with AS are indulging in some kind of fad.
... etc. If you're one of these people, then even if AS is a correct diagnosis, it's critically important that you not label yourself as AS, because it'll just become one more label you hang on yourself as a way of giving yourself permission to fail.
When I was evaluated for AS, my psych told me that I had clear enough symptoms that an AS diagnosis was appropriate... but that ultimately it was up to me whether I had AS. If having the knowledge that my brain was wired differently helped me cope with life, helped me accomodate my shortcomings, let me live a happier and better life, then by all means: let's get the AS diagnosis taken care of.
But the flip side is that a lot of people take diagnoses and turn them into excuses why they can't do $foo, why other people need to accomodate them, why they're
AS is often a fad diagnosis. (The worst I ever saw was a father telling me about his four-year-old with AS. Come on.) But the existence of fad diagnoses does not in any way negate the existence of accurate AS diagnoses, nor the help that self-knowledge can bring.
I have AS. I'm a graduate student; I almost got married once, but it didn't take. I've worked in the industry and received my fair share of glowing recommendations and don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-ass goodbyes. I have the respect of my peers and more friends than I deserve.
None of this happened either because or in spite of Asperger's Syndrome. I'm wholly responsible for all of them--the particular way my head is wired has zero responsibility for any of them.
The way my head is wired is just a fact of existence. What I choose to do with my life... that's up to me.
Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with your call, on that one, Barbara. Upon cursory glance, this student does sound like a classic case.
ASpies are usually filled with a great passion for certain topics that interest them. One way to get them interested in being social is to introduce them to others who share their passions. Even this can be awkward for some, though.
It is useful, in some cases, to teach them that there are very real, practical reasons for gaining social skills. Rare ASpies have been known to be capable of focusing their amazing learning abilities on attaining social graces, from what I understand. They create sets of rules to operate by. They search for patterns in the behaviors of others, so that they can apply their rules. It sounds horrible -- as though it were some sort of act -- but to some degree, a great deal of social behavior is an act, isn't it? Why else would there be etiquette books and finishing schools?
Perhaps what you wish to teach is not social "skills," but, rather, the ability to find pleasure in being social. Can that be taught?
Well, maybe it's best to start with those aforementioned folks who share your student's passions. Start by making things fun!
I completly agree with the parent.
... you probably dont have it. Some of the tips might even give you an insight if you have just some mild traits.
Just because you think that the general description of the Asperger's syndrome somewhat describes you, doesn't mean you have it.
After hearing first about Asperger, I thougth "Hey, that's me." Then I got to the online support groups, read the tips that float there and come to the conclusion "Oh, that's waaaay more serious than my little social problems."
Just because you have some very mild traits of this syndrome doesnt mean that you have it. After all, everyone has some trait of some mental illness, but that doesnt means you are mentally ill.
And dont blindly trust your doctor either, Asperger has become a "trendy" diagnosis (just like hyperactivity) and doctors have become way to eager to diagnose it.
If you suspect Asperger, read the tips on the online support groups and if they look obvious
Asperger's syndrome is a very severe condition that goes way beyond shyness.
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof for my post which this sig is too small to contain.
I know that this has already been mentioned, so I'll probably be modded redundant, but here's my two cents:
I've always been too smart academically and awful socially. Recently I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome (I'm 21 and I was diagnosed 2 years ago.) This essentially means that I struggle to develop an effective theory of mind and lack a certain amount of human empathy. One strategy that has really helped me is to try to understand, to make myself understand, that people are just like me, with thoughts and feelings all the time. I know that this sounds silly and childish, but it works. Actually, the biggest help was "social stories" (and an understanding girlfriend who just happened to write her thesis on Asperger's.) One of the best things that you can do for anyone who is really that socially maladapted is to suggest that he get tested for Asperger's. With the correct diagnosis, assuming that there is a medical reason for his social difficulties, new strategies will open up to him and there will be more resources to seek out.
This sig has been stolen. Return it to its original user for a reward.
You need to check out Fast Seduction.
:)
Yeah, it's horrible, flame away, but it works like you wouldn't believe. Good insights into the female mind. I played around with it as an experiment many years ago to help get my people and relationship skills up. It's actually sickening how well it works. 3 second rule is gold in all walks of life. And for gods sakes, get some new clothes and get a haircut and shave. $150 worth of weights and 45 minutes a week will change your appearance forever, and it MATTERS in interviews.
The feynman stuff is as true as EVER. You don't buy a chick anything. You should be trying to get her to buy YOU stuff. Now there's a challenge.
Treating social interaction as a grand experiment is a lot of fun, you might learn something, and maybe get some, too.
Along the same and more depressing lines, check out the Ladder Theory of male/female relationships. It's amusing, but has a ring of truth to it.
Good luck!
..don't panic
If we're going to do this properly, we should really start at the beginning.
Aardvark:
A furry thing that eats insects.
When I was going to College, the biggest influence in my confidence and people skills was a job in retail. NOT something even remotely connected to technology. I.E. No Future Suck, Elecsucknics Boutique, etc. Selling clothes or glasses are probably the best.
Other benefits:
1. Money. I mean, who couldn't use some more money? You can buy clothes, haircuts, women, toys; hell, he could even buy a gold brick if there's nothing else he wants.
2. Dress sense. Unless you're in a job that supplies a uniform, you're going to have to learn how to put together a good outfit. Some outfits will suck, especially at first, but soon the good outfits will outnumber the bad.
3. Talking to people all the time who don't give a nut how smart you are. As far as they're concerned, you're dumber than they are.
4. You will learn that a company will stab you in the back, then figure out if it's cheaper to pull out the knife and stab you again, or use a new knife. That's a VERY valuable lesson.
If he'd rather not work, then he's probably already too far gone to help, but the College / University that he's going to should have dozens of clubs. That's probably an okay substitute.
---
ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
An alternative to some kind of martial arts that focuses on both disicpline, physical fitness, and education is the Civil Air Patrol, if you're interested in the military. It's for ages 12-21 for the normal cadet program, and if you're any older there's a senior program.
The higher rank kids, regardless of age help the lower rank kids, and it's a good way to earn scholarships if you're home schooled or can't currently earn one in your sittuation.
You do all sorts of neat stuff, important emergency response missions, and recreational things.
Come this April, I'm gonna get to fly in a Jet Re-fueler and watch them re-fuel planes in mid-air. If I remember right, it's a KC-135.
RELAX!
As a coder and socialite, I can fill you guys in on the secret.
Coding is a VERY PRECISE SCIENCE.
Talking to people is a VERY RELAXED ART.
On nights that I'm in "code mode" I don't go out and socialize, or party, etc. I write code. The problem with geeks is that we don't spend enough time in social situations. Just like everything else in life, you have to put time into things that are worth doing. In the same way that you can soak up some code by spending time with it, you can soak up social graces by being around people (that aren't close friends).
PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPUTERS. If you don't put a comma in the right place, or you don't puncuate your sentences properly, your conversation will still compile. The only way to mess up a conversation is to OVERTHINK or OVERANALYZE it. The best thing to do is just talk to everyone as if they were a close family member or friend. Ask them about their day... Ask the cashier at Publix or Kroger if she/he's been busy today. They'll chat with you.
Also, don't chat with people just for a predefined GOAL. People can see right through that (especially girls). Share a few sentences with the grocery bagger EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN FROM HIM. It will do 2 things - it will relax you when talking to a stranger, and it will help you build your basic conversational topics.
Hell, start small. When you call 411 and ask for a number, and the chick is looking it up, ask her if she's been busy. Ask her if shes based out of your town. If it's a dude, do the same thing. Learn to just talk to people and act like you care what they are telling you. But DON'T BE CREEPY. Listen to what they say and follow up on it briefly, but don't linger on things. When your bags are done being placed in your shopping cart, tell the person, "good luck."; or "have a good day". or whatever. Being social is not nearly as complex as learning a programming language; so stop looking at people like every period, semicolon, comma matters.
People are very basic.
The end result is that you'll be more relaxed in general when talking with people. You won't have a "goal" when talking to someone, and people won't think that you do and they'll just talk about whatever with you.
Alcohol helps, but it's not a solution.
Once you find the "keyword" that you and the little slut have in common, you can milk it and show your intelligence on the subject and then bed her.
Stay tuned for Chapter 2: Intermediate conversation - In this chapter we'll discuss how to tell her things like, "Don't wake me up when you leave tomorrow..." and "I really appreciate the head, but I'd be really impressed if you made me a sandwich..."
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
Collection otherPersonsInterests = new ArrayList();
while(true){
while(otherPersonTalking){
boolean noddingAndSmile = true;
listenIntently(noddingAndSmiling);
if(mentionsInterests){
otherPersonsInterests.add(conversationStream.read
}
}
Thread.sleep(10000L);
if(otherPersonHasREALLYstopped){
conversationStream.write(constructQuestionsAboutI
}
paySincereComplement();
}
The kids at school I couldn't make friends with were exactly the sort of people that I wouldn't want any child of mine socialising with anyway. I submit that your definition of functioning socially is too narrow. When I was a kid I started a environmental conservation club for kids. I consider that to be socially responsible. I don't recall seeing any of the "normal" kids with their social skills doing anything like this. I have a strong social concience. I have weak social skills. I might be arrogant, but I'm generous. The end result is that I think I am a nicer person than the average idiot, bless 'em ;)
When I was 16 I decided that I would be happier if I normalized myself. Based on studies on soviet alcholics I concluded that if I did enough brain damage I'd be close to normal
Well it didn't normalize me but the thing I discovered was that when drinking heavily I was charismatic and appraochable. I had spent 2 years in the gym but had no luck with women. *bang* as soon as I have as much booze in me as a squad of navy pilots on leave I was irrisistable. by the time I was 18 there was a list of girls who would go to parties only if I was going to be there.
I also figured out that all I had to do was act like I did when drunk and I was much better with people (the eye contact, energetic voice, the warm smile, being happy to see people, etc). You do not have to ever have the "social skills" all you really have to have is the ability to emulate the social skills. this is basic acting people. It doesn't have to come naturally but you do have to be able to study what charismatic people do and be able to parrot it.
Body building also doesn't hurt. Women as well as men judge you initially based on the only thing they have and that is appearance. Besides it is just like any other RPG, it is all about leveling.
Martial arts? been there done that. If you live in fear this might seem like the answer. Unfortunatly your charismatic martial artist is about as common as your charismatic astro physisist (maybe less, I understand that Hawking used to be great fun at parties). This is only a good idea if he is getting beat up and then, only if he feel the opposition is not going to feel his new found skills entitle them to equalize the situation whether it be through numbers or weapons.
If he is as sharp as you say; above and beyond all else remember he doesn't have to socialize with people his own age. Grab him a few PHDs and post grads from fields that interest him and let them play together. Or see if he can just start college early (some places will pay for it if he his still a minor) The people who are mean to him now, will dead end shortly after high school and that they will never matter like they seem to right now. It is a couple rough years but after that everything gets better.
This one should go AC as some of it sounds like bragging and the rest might sound sociopathic to some.
It is the adult's responsibility to create the social rules in a situation. Whatever you deem to be OK, and do so with conviction, the kids will accept.
You want to get this kid out of his shell? Try accepting him for who he is. He is in his shell because he is scared, and not even the grownup (you) in the situation accepts him.
You have even gone on slashdot to ask us geeks how to make a person change. What if this kid finds out you have done this? I would dare say that of all of the people in this situation that are not accepting this kid for who he is, you are on the top of the list.
I think you should instead work on learning how to accept this person, and give him the space to grow up at his own pace. He will naturally find a sport/activity he likes sooner or later.
The best favor you can do this kid is to try to remember your own childhood. Did you get teased for not combing your hair? Do you have unresolved pain from a painful "not fitting in" situation way back when?
If you don't do this, then these situations will keep popping up. This is because something deep inside you will cause them to repeat themselves in the people around you. This will continue until you no longer need them for your personal development.
Once again, you are responsible for the social environment. If YOU cast this kid in a negative light in your own mind, then the other kids are going to do the actual dirty work of letting this kid know that he isn't accepted by you.
If you got a $100 bill, put your hands up...
I don't know if this would work for the kid specifically, but I found that taking dance classes and being on the dancesport team at my college has really helped my social skills.
I mean, first of all, dancing is a coed contact sport... who else can claim that? Secondly, especially in highschool and college, the girl:guy ratio is at least 2:1, which is very good odds. Third, dance people tend to be very close and very social, so you're learning from the best. Finally, being a dancer skyrockets your attractiveness to whole new levels. When girls see a guy dance, they just fall over themselves. Not to mention it gives incentive to look good and dress nicely.
Dancing is also very fun and will keep you in shape. It's a nice break from the rigors of normal life and learning, but it also keeps your brain active, since you have to be constantly thinking about technique and staying 5 steps ahead of the game.
There are many forms of dancing. Personally, I do ballroom dancing. Now, when you hear that, I know the first thing that comes to mind is your grandparents dancing to old music, but there are a lot of fun social dances that are done in clubs as well as competition dances, which take a lot of training, but are also very fun to perform. Popular club dances are Salsa, Hustle (not the 70s dance, it's a modern dance based on it and danced to techno!), West-Coast Swing, East-Coast Swing, and other variations of Swing. In my area, Salsa is extremely popular, and there are at least 3 clubs that have salsa nights a couple times a week. There are a ton of competition dances, but I won't list them here, you can easily google it.
Anyway, back on topic - dance for a few months and hang out with the dancers outside of pratice... it will improve your social skills extremely quickly and give you much more confidence in social situations.
"Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." --Douglas Adams
Take them to Burning Man!!!
I guarantee you - if you have never been, you and your outlook on life will be different.
If you want the least frustrating experience - find some friends to go with, or ones who have gone. Or, find out if you have a regional burn group - and go to the regional burn, or any one of the other events that the group may sponsor or host. Get involved with the art, with the sound, with the sights - get involved with the people!
Believe me, you won't feel too weird anymore afterward - Burning Man introduces whole new levels of strangeness into your life.
My first Burn was last year. My only regret is not going sooner. The people I met, the friends I made, the art I experienced - I was made anew.
As part of this re-making, I learned something that should be common sense, especially for someone my age - but it wasn't. It is something fundamentally important, that I missed all of these years - and learning it led to my final decision to go to Burning Man. If it hadn't been for the wonderful friends I have, I might have missed this simple truth:
A stranger can only become a friend through getting to know them. If they act like they don't like you, or don't want to talk to you, it most likely isn't you. It's them. In other words, if you are being polite and doing everything to be friendly with someone you don't know, and they still shun you - move on. It is they who have the problem, not you.
Teach them that, let them learn it - then take them to Burning Man.
Both of your lives will never be the same again.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
The other disciplines which have been helping us too-smart-for-our-own-good people get in touch with their bodies are the studies of music and dance. For the clueless, I particularly recommend study in strict formal traditions where they tell you things like "This is right/this is wrong" rather than "Just express yourself." In addition to making practitioners more in touch with their bodies, both disciplines have interesting social effects. They can provide a modality of interaction particularly suited to shy people, one which doesn't involve small talk; they can provide both cooperative and competitive interactions.
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Put gifted kids together.
Yep, that is the best way (from my personal experience).
It not only helps them to gain some social skill from the interaction with similar kids, the moral support I got from these groups was very healthy too. You are surrounded by a bunch of kids who all have the same problems, and that helps you to deal with the bullies. I developped a "I am more intelligent than this jerk, so I dont care what he says"-attitude that helped me survive school.
Granted this is arrogant and needs to be overcome when you reach adulthood, but IMO it's still better than what other people I know have experienced. Not knowing that they were more intelligent, they felt as "cheaters" because they performed well on tests without learning, something that was preached by their teachers to be "impossible". Thereof their whole succes in life seamed a lie to them and they lived in fear that this lie will be discovered one day. Also they felt isolated because nobody understood them.
And they were the lucky ones that did well in school instead of malperforming because they got bored.
The day they first joined a group of very intelligent people generally comes to them as a relieve and sometimes even as an "enlightenment". I literally saw a woman in her fifties burst in tears on her first Mensa meeting. Having contact to other kids that understand and respect him will not only teach him social skills but also show him that he's not alone in the world, but that there are others just like him.
So dont wait for him to make this discovery later in life, but get him in touch with similiar children now. Contact the gifted children program of Mensa or a specialized organisation like the American Association for Gifted Children to see if they have a local group of gifted children.
BTW, from my experience gifted children are far more likely to accept someone much younger or older in their groups than "normal" children. I guess they are happy to find someone that understands them at all, so age doesnt matter that much. (I still wouldnt advice to put a 5-year-old in a group of 16-year-olds ;)
I also was a member of a chessclub which is important as it gets you in touch with "normal" people. Not hyperintelligent, but not the typical school bullies either. But it didnt gave me the same emotional satisfaction as the gifted children group.
Finally, dont expect wonders. I still wasnt "Mr. Popular" in school, but I always had some few, but good friends, even some (even fewer) girlfriends and was happy. But even then, and despite the fact that I got to a highschool for "better" students, it was sometimes pretty rough at school. But when I got to (I guess the US equivalent is college), I fund it very funny that the same people that bullied me before became very nice to me. Suddenly they were concerned about their marks and guess who they did turn to with their problems in Math ;-p ;-p
I didnt abuse my new power and didnt let them abuse me with this new promise of "popularity" either, but kept friendly and acquired a nice middle position in the hierarchy. I suddenly got invited to parties and became a somewhat more normal, but rather shy student.
Now, at university, I'm almost on the top of the food chain
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof for my post which this sig is too small to contain.
I'm a nerd (I'm here aren't I), but I grew out of it. What's the use of knowing the right answer if you can't convince others you know the right answer? Fortunately there's a high school class that teaches kids just that skill, it's called Speech and Debate.
My 15 year old son is in it and it's great. I was pleasantly surprised how much he likes it, way more than I thought. I asked him, and his answer was that it's competitive too (Debate that is, speech isn't). Seems my son likes to win way more than I thought and there's a winner in Debate... it keeps him going.
So you say the right stuff, but you're wearing white socks, sporting unkempt hair, have an untucked shirt, and broken glasses. You won't convince the judges you're right. In the real world, looks matter, presentation matters, self confidence matters. It may not be pretty, it may offend your sense of justice and mathematical fair play, but it's the way the world is. If you need to live in that world, stay behind the computer and type all your messages. But if you want to live away from the computer, learn that lesson while you're in high school and have your life ahead of you so you can take advantage of it!
Keep in mind that we are talking about children as young as 5 or 6 who begin to experience social problems related to this "syndrome". If some kid has a problem, do you honestly think you can help him by saying "Why do you want friends anyway? You'll be rich some day and they'll work for you." That is nonsense.
I remember when I first noticed my problem. I couldn't learn baseball. I kept asking very precise questions that the other kids wouldn't bother answering. I kept making mistakes. I played a few games, messed everything up. Soon no one would play with me. Then I started to get beat up. That can be very sad for a six-year-old.
It just isn't enough to say "it was their problem." It wasn't. They just wanted to play the game, not explain things to me. It was my problem. Both the kid and the parents have to accept that before it can be solved.
Wow, what's your charisma at, like 19? I'd get the kid to reroll if possible.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
90% of TKD schools are McDojos (bullshido.com), so my advice to anyone who thinks of learning TKD: MAKE SURE YOU DO NOT GET HOSED. There are some really crappy schools out there. Make sure you learn self defense, not how to dance. Click the link to find some good advice. And yes, I speak from personal experience. Thank god for Jeet Kune Do.
That's right. All your base.
I was supposedly one of those "gifted students", although Law School makes me wonder. Anyways, I didn't have in terms of social skills until I started playing music seriously. I spent about 3 years playing in various bands, and it helped me a great deal in that department. Nothing quite forces a person to accept social situations faster than sticking him up on a stage to perform with 3 other guys in front of 100+ people. Between dealing with seedy bar managers, fending off groupies (optional), and convincing dozens of drunk 30-40 year-olds that you really can't play Metallica covers ALL night...he will figure it out pretty fast.
This isn't one of my more favorite topics, but, since it's clearly important to you, and presumably this kid is worth it, I'm going to spend some time this evening and write about a few of my experiences growing up. *Maybe*, if you're lucky, you'll find a better solution to this than "He has to find his own way"
I was identified at age 5 as a gifted student. After a brief and demoralizing year switching schools and climbing my way back up, I moved into those advanced classes again, and was moved into a gifted program in 5th grade (The first year a separate program was available in my school system). To add to my separation from my classmates, I have worn glasses since age 4, and can't see more than fuzzy shapes 18 inches away without them.
When I say separation from my classmates, I mean specifically the majority not in the gifted classes. Being one of 5 people culled out of 200 (small town, I know) makes you one step above special ed kids in the social order.
Teachers, take note, public praise in class for those students that do well is a good thing, to some extent. However, excessive use of encouragement in several grades served to draw attention to our difference from our classmates. There is such a thing as too much encouragement, too publicly.
One might think we'd band together. However, that wasn't exactly the case. 5 headstrong kids with wildly different interests doesn't exactly work. Oh we'd try, but to some extent it was merely that we didn't exclude each other, rather than that we were close or included one another.
Gifted class instructors seemed much more intent on focusing on maximizing our future potential and SAT scores 8 years out than on teaching us effective communication and interpersonal skills. In retrospect, study of politics and the acquisition of power probably would have been a more effective motivator as a reason to learn social skills.
But I digress. I got lucky. My father finally struck upon a plan to get me more involved in team activities, with a motivator I could understand.
Air Force Junior ROTC in high school. Laugh if you will, but here's the motivator.
If you want to go to college, you have to have money, be particularly outstanding, or be financially disadvantaged. Unfortunately, my family was essentially lower middle class, made too much on paper to get much financial aid, and made too little to afford it. Most small business owners in rural america fall into this category.
So, know what you have to do to get into a military academy? You have (or had at that time) to be sponsored, usually by a state senator or representative. For some people, this happens behind the scenes because of thier scores, others have to apply, and find someone to sponsor them. But, to get in on merit, there is one scholarship, and sponsorship, available per year from each ROTC school.
So, by excelling, I had an opportunity to go to a truly good school. Hence my enrollment in ROTC.
Now for the lucky part. I made a lifelong friend, joined the drill team, and learned, in a structured environment, how to deal with others in my age group. How to work in a team, and how to develop my leadership skills.
My friend, to whom I am eternally grateful, took me out, taught me to drink beer, smoke, a variety of other things, and challenged me in ways I hadn't been challenged.
Oh, I'd played baseball (badly, poor depth perception) and swim team (slowly, good stamina though, 400 meter medley), but those were challenges my brain could only help so much with.
No, conquering fear, that was the challenge game we were into. My friend took me to a set of cliffs, dropped a rope over the side, and taught me to rappel. He and another buddy taught me to ride a motorcycle. Then we got into motorcross. The variety of reckless dares taken based on the "No Balls" motivator was staggering in retrospect.
Now these were sports! Things I could do that took physical exertion, but required significant nerve and concentration. Chall
As a young geek teach he should know the importance of Compound interest. The more he invests in the future now. When he is older and ready to score with the chicks he will be able to afford to pay for them like the rest of us nerds. Instead of building one, not that he wont be smart enough to. If you don't believe me here is proof that it has worked in the past. Revenge of the nerds
Dude, nothing- and I mean NOTHING- fucked me up MORE in high school and grade school than the goddamned jocks. If you're not a jock, it doesn't matter if you're "on a team" or not- you're shafted into the shittiest position and made a target of opportunity by the opposing team, slammed into "By accident" and blamed for the failures of your own team, and generally shat on until you're ground into dust.
You want to fuck the kid up, stick him with a bunch of primates that play sports all day. See how he likes his life in a few years.
You might be kidding about this, but I don't think you're all wrong.
You need to expose these kind of people to real social situations: including drinking, etc.
The best example I can come up with is as follows:
Back in high school I used to hang out a the local Starbucks a LOT. Most of my high school clique did too. (If if makes anything make more sense, I've always been a computer geek, but was very popular in high school. I wasn't just hanging out with Linux geeks at this Starbucks...)
In any case, this kid named Eric started showing up. He was the most shy person I have ever met, but obviously wanted social interaction. He'd come up to Starbucks, pull up a chair next to our table, and not say a word. When you asked him a question, he'd mumble a response so low you'd have to ask him to repeat it 4 times. He wouldn't speak, he wouldn't say anything at all.
About a year later, we convinced him to come to a party with us. And he drank. He got drunk. And he talked at a normal tone! He actually TALKED.
It wasn't an instant cure, but over the months following that, Eric came out more. At first he would only talk while he was drinking. But as time went by, he became comfortable with talking, and when I last saw him, his social problems had entirely disapeared.
You might be kidding about the "Get him drunk" comment, but I ask everyone to think for a sec: "Why do most people drink?" in the first place?
Even for those of us without hardcore social interaction problems, it's because it still helps us loosen up, etc.
You may not be as off with your "Get him drunk" comment as people might assume.
Sig.i>
I attest to this. My school had the no-cut cross-country thing as well, and one guy who was on it was the ABSOLUTE WORST runner back in junior high. But he perservered. He was absolutely teased to no end (he was very reserved, and spoke slowly) to begin with, but people saw his perserverence. He never became the most popular person or what not, but he did win the Most Inspirational Player during senior year, and he did get cheers from everyone at our school at the few cross-country events I witnessed. I think it really helped him a lot, as he was more talkative and open at graduation.
Now, on the other hand, don't have a kid try for a sport that has cuts, is really competitive, and they aren't good at. There was one guy try out for the JV B-ball team and he was absolutely terrible on the court. He had apparently been practicing for a while (playing with his friends). However, he never improved, and when you looked at him play it just seemed like it was a bad idea to begin with. I think he was crushed when the coach basically told him to stop and that he had no chance. But sports where there are not many throw-away spots, you cannot give spots to the ungifted.
Moral of the stories... competition isn't for everyone?!?... hmm, oh well.
0- Eamonman Proud member of DNRC
Like the Johnny Cash song, just name the kid Sue and he'll be forced to grow out of his shell.
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
As a kid, I had a hard time with communicating with other kids my age just because I was so much smarter than they were. A second grader who reads highschool science textbooks for fun doesn't really have much in common with other second grade girls who's idea of a hard book is The Babysitter's Club series.
Plus, it can be rather isolating when even most adults haven't got a clue about the things you're interested in.
Sometimes I think that it would be easier to be average and to go along happily clueless of anything below the surface of things.
Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines...
I agree with what you did. What would assaulting the man have done? There are plenty of people who did fucked up (similar) things to me in my past and I seek no revenge. The events have passed. My hurting them won't help any others; and it won't help me.
Photos.
Ok the problem is that you yourself see this as a problem and this could send the wrong message. Give this kid a break and simply be his friend. That is all you ought to do. Give him some good books to read, get him a comb and tell him he is the smartest kid you ever met.
I don't think that sheltering children in the early years is a bad thing. Once they've developed a mature enough stance to be taught how to stand up against bullies, bigots, etc. then they can be introduced to the full gamut of the social strucure. However, you have to remember that these people who display extra intellectual prowess above and beyond their peers are effectively skipping HUGE areas of development that the rest of us have gone through. Getting them involved in more challenging material early on and protecting them is crucial to keeping them involved in that material, in my mind.
Amen to that. It's extremely hard being the smart kid in a group of average kids. My older brother was the smartest kid at his school (and I mean this literally--he had the highest IQ score of any kid ever at that school). By first grade he was writing stories about violently destroying his classroom if he were teacher for a day, largely because he had a teacher who had no clue how to deal with smart kids. My parents started homeschooling when he was in 5th grade, and from that point on until he graduated, he spent most of his time in his room reading about astronomy (and then getting up in the middle of the night to take his telescope out), he taught himself ancient Greek (and learned it so well that he knew it better than his college professors) and Latin, and while he didn't have many friends while in school, when he went off to college he ended up with tons of friends and had all kinds of girls chasing him.
Speaking personally, it's so very hard to be a little kid and be working on an intellectual level that most adults you know aren't even on. The only person I knew who could even remotely understand me was the aforementioned older brother (I never was IQ tested, but my parents always suspected I was smarter than him). Adding to that was that I was a girl who was into things that girls are't "supposed" to be interested in or good at, and you start to get the picture of what it's like to go through childhood when you're so much smarter than everyone else. All I can say is that I'm very glad I was homeschooled, because while I've always had fairly decent social skills, it can get to be rather stressful spending all your time having to talk down to people who can't understand half of your vocabulary, and to have to make small talk about things that you think are absolutely inane. If I had had to spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week doing that, I think I really would have turned into a nerd with no social skills because I would have ended up getting bored with talking down to people and ended up avoiding people altogether.
Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines...
Put them in a situation with 'ordinary' people, out there in the world, and make no mention of the 'gifted' moniker ever again.
This is the biggest crock of shit modern education has given us from the 21st Century, incidentally. Every single human being alive today is 'gifted', with life.
Calling some kid 'gifted' on the basis of some wonderful -observed- factor of their personality, and giving other kids hard-core drugs on the basis of other -observations-
This very phenomenon of diversion, separation, and segragation, on the basis of some 'experiment' controlled through another human beings observation, in a desire to make a 'better human being'.
We may as well just start making Aryans again.
5,000,000,000 (+ 0's) people in this world. Every single one of them is 'gifted'. Most of them are thirsty.
All you're doing, by creating 'gifted children' is making a very, very small subset of another very small subset, of a small group of people, run from the infinite reality that every single human being has to face, which is the fact of the existence of every other human being on the planet at this point in time, here and now
Put someone above that for a second, and of course they will come to ignore their responsibilities to wipe their ass and not pick their noses in public. It will have driven them, slightly, mad.
We are all equally gifted. It is the only way to live.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Asperger's often manifests differently in girls, for starters. Girls grow up in a world of social networks. This means they may be more likely than boys to learn social skills. BUT, they do not learn them intuitively, as most people do. They learn them the way most people learn to do algebra or build a birdhouse from a blueprint: first step A, then you do B, then you should get results C.
Of course you are right that lack of social skills != Aspergers. But it's not true that all Aspergers affected people are like your friend.
- Send 'em away from home for several weeks or longer at a time.
- Send them to a place thats culturally different (North Dakota to South Dakota doesn't count, from the suburbs to inner city New York is better, any foreign country is best. Tip: IRELAND - They speak english - sort of, very open to kids, crap TV)
- Do like my parents did, move to a different country every 2nd year
Downside: The kid loses the friends in the old places.
Upside: He has to learn how to make new friends, how to break into existing social networks, to adapt to a different culture, how to depend upon himself.
This won't turn an introverted geek into a social lion, but you do learn the mechanics of meeting new people, building relationships, making friends - it helps to maximise whatever potential social IQ is present.
This is not just from personal experience: I have several friends with similar backgrounds, and they have maxed their potential in this field. If they'd grown up in one single place, they would have turned into carbon copies of Rain Man.
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
I can speak from experience.
- I had zero (0) friends up to age 17.
- I noticed that there was a discrepancy between my assessment of social situation and other people's.
- I resolved that I had to make a rational (as opposed to instinctive / empathic) effort to get into other people's shoes.
From then on, it was blindingly easy.
Put it this way to him:
* he can BE himself, look as such, and pay a price,
OR
* slowly learn "the language", get in the habit of reading all those cues, and do a little bit of acting.
"Be Yourself", although repeated ad nauseam in all sorts of poems, songs, sitcoms, alley psychology tracts and anysuch, is the worst possible advice.
Being clever helps. Most normals are sufficiently slow that one can run circles around them processing their social cues by means of one's nonsocial engine without even taxing it too much, and they'll hardly ever notice.
Once you get the hang of it, it can be fun, not unlike training dogs.
And if normals are of the clever sort, they'll understand your game, won't get offended, wink, and play on.
When I was in college, We had this one professor who was brilliant at his work (numerical methods in astrophysics) and a good teacher. However the guy had no social skills outside of his teaching, and he looked like a tramp. A fellow student ran into him at a train station one day and said "hi!", the professor actually RAN AWAY SCARED.
I was a terminal nerd at the time, but meeting an intelligent guy in his '50s who was less well adjusted to the world than most students, scared the hell out of me. It was like being visited by the ghost of Christmas future.
I'm still rather antisocial, but after watching a possible future played out so vividly, I started to take acquiring social skills a lot more seriously.
... ask him to think about the people around him. How they react to certain things, what they like doing and why.
I learnt a lot, just by watching others and thinking about them. It's good to talk about it with a close friend, too. These two can get you really up to speed on social skills, I think.
Cheers.
Builds adaptive, cooperative, human interface skills in real time! (And is a great way to meet chicks ... or guys ... or both ... whatever). It is not possible to look like a misanthropic geek if one has successfully mastered the basics of successfully aligning your body movements to Latin rhythms. (The trick, of course, is zenning that rhythm thing -- but thus the lessons if you need an extra boost there.)
;)
:)
If that fails, join a rock band. If you can learn to work with "artists", you can then work with _anyone_ (and having unkempt hair can be an asset under the correct circumstances). However, contrary to popular belief, this is probably not a good way to meet members of the opposite sex, or anyone else you might wish to form a non-professional relationship with
At the very least, throw away all those computer games so that you're forced to find something else to do with your apparently (possibly?) copious free time
Cheers,
Carl
Karate can be helpful, but not for everyone. I am currently in the same situation, however, I am lucky enough to go to a large school where I can literally become invisible to avoid teasing/bullying. I haven't been picked on since middle school. The only classes I'm really comfortable in are my technology classes (and I'm a girl - it's hard to fit here too!), so I've made my extracurricular fit me. My high school has a FIRST robotics team. It's great - everyone works super hard to uild and design a robot in 6 weeks, then we get to go to Regionals and some people get to go to Nationals! For someone who may be uninterested in sports or other activities, this could allow him to be with other people that share his interests. The competitions are great! It's like a rock concert, literally, with out the drinking and fights and for geeks. Even if he's not so interested in robots, as I am not (but am more interested now after 2 years), there are other things you can do. The robot is programmed in C and there's a seperate smaller competition for a 3D animation built with 3D Studio Max. I have to say, this is the best experience of high school so far. I don't quite fit at school yet, but I've made friends that might pick on me for being nerdy, but I can pick on them back :-P
It's "losing", not "loosing".
"Losing you mind" is going insane. "Loosing you mind" is pulling you brain out of your skull through your nose with a large rusty hook.
Where did this bizarre confusion come from anyway? I'm sure that these words were not confused with such regularity a year ago.
I remember on one project, I was so pissed off that someone had given us something completely stupid, and practically impossible to do. Mark knew exactly how to handle it -- he told me that they were expecting me to fail, and that I should do it just to prove them wrong. He knew exactly how to turn my anti-social tendancies into a benefit, not a handicap. [and I turned my part of the project in on time... too bad the contractor never did, and walked with over 50% of the hardware, and never produced any of the software, that he was supposedly 'working on in [his] test lab'.]
In a small company, yes, everyone will probably have to do a little bit of customer relations. In a large company, with good managment, they will know how to deal with various personality quirks, and how to get the most of each person. [And likewise, if a particular person is worth the trouble]. Unfortunately, Mark got promoted, and I was hung out to dry by a completely 'hands off' manager, and was fired by his boss for pointing out his mistakes repeatedly.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
You need to check out Fast Seduction.
Yeah, it's horrible, flame away, but it works like you wouldn't believe.
Oh, I believe it. Back when these techniques were disseminated in books (egad), I used some of them briefly to enter (or at least visit) the world of non-geekiness.
But while it might "work" in some mechanical sense, so do illegal drugs (or so I hear) "work" at bringing pleasure. Like any mindless pursuit of pleasure (vs. happiness), learning those Fast Seduction style techniques, without actually learning how to love and interact with your fellow human being, is going to bring misery and a pathetic existence in the long run.
Enjoying a team game has nothing to do with you IQ.
If all the other guys are treating you badly than you should either join another team and ask yourself if you might be responsible for their behaviour too. Social interactions are often as hard to master as chess, both need training and reflection.
In my university the majority of the really smart ones that can do derivations on the blackboard, which remind you of Feinman, are working together in larger groups to discuss their research problems and to have fun, some even play soccer.
I feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy teams at all.
In the end you are jugding about people only because of their IQ. Such easy one-criteria-fits-all arguments are often used by people, who don't have the ability to think clearly and honestly.
I have a son in this situation. In addition to exposing him to social situations through scouts and basketball (he's 9), I engage his analytical skills, which he bases a good part of his self-worth on. I ask him to analyze the situation so that he can understand the rules, play by them and "win" by using them. He WANTS to be smart, so make understanding social considerations part of being smart, and the rest follows. Good luck!
the alleged "hardness" or "softness" of Aikido really depends on where you are studying it. I study with the Western Division of USAF and they tend not to "dance you around" and throw you as much as the Eastern Division does. They just get down to the arm twisting and elbow locking as soon as possible. In fact, it really hurts. The current head of Western Divsion (who studied under the founder) is a bit more of a hard ass than some, and to a good end.
I haven't read everyone answer to this question. However I can tell you what family did and I did. 1st off is to know and understand that being a geek is not a bad thing. However, sciance and math are in every aspect of life. Music is a huge thing, reading music has a large mathamtical attribute. And I am not just talking classical music, but rock or rap. I for example learned to play the drums, now I DJ at a nightclub part time. It is a great way to meet the women, and it forces you to take a bit of pride in your apperance. Another things is my friends tell me I am a pool shark, because I am so good at it they don't want to bet against me. Well guess what Pool or billards uses physics. Also you have to play with others and talk to as well. You start with talking about things like music, Movies, which actoress or actor (depending on your sexual preforance) is the hotest, or which band do you like. This is the way I avoided the hassles of being made fun of. Also learning to deal with people is not a easy thing. Just like all things in life, we have to learn how to do it. And those who say that computer people or geeks or even sciance people don't have to deal with people are wrong. Our life and world is built off a community, that means we all have to learn how to interact with that community and what is required to fit into that community. This means takeing baths, this does mean not eating a clove of garlic and then breathing in peoples faces. If we value our privicey and what to be treated a certin way that means we should treat others that way. *sorry my soap box* As one of my teachers said to me "Don't be a sciance nerd, take the time off form the lab or the computer to enjoy the world around you. Learn to apprcate the things that make life worth living, i.e. art, music, laughter, and family and friends." By the way this teacher was one of the top in the Microbiology field.
When life hands you lemons, ask for Taquila and Salt.
I have a 5 year old who is diagnosed as an Asperger's individual. You are correct in saying that medications do not really help. The best thing to use is occupational therapy. The Asperger's individual has no inate concept of appropriate social behavior, and must be taught what to do in various situations. There are occupational therapists who specialize in this. More info at The Online Asperger Information and Support page.
Explain to him that the whole "social signals" system is a fault-tolerant handshaking protocol for humans. Two computer systems peering will exchange a rigid set of questions and response to verify that they are using compatible protocols and that what one says, the other will understand as it was meant. The same is true of human beings: if you dress in a socially-approved manner, practice socially-approved hygiene, conduct conversations according to socially-approved protocols, people are more likely to understand and believe that the two of you can cooperate to mutual benefit.
If people are to respect the law, perhaps the law should begin by respecting the people.
My comment may be too late. :).
It sounds lame, but band is really a great way to break into being somewhat social. If the kid shows any sort of musical aptitude you should tell him to get some private lessons on an instrument (of his choice) and then to join his school band. If he chooses trumpet though, be careful because he may become an arrogant prick
Band consists af a whole bunch of other nerds and geeks, but from varying backgrounds of geekdom. Also, there usually tends to be quite a few other strangelings in there so he won't feel alone.
Band will create a social environment where people _must_ interact with him, and he _must_ interact with others. By the time he gets into high school, he will at least have basic social skills.
Also, you are almost gauranteed a woman if you are in band due to the "band inbreeding" effect.
Have fun,
- Heath
I agree with you. I was speaking more about revenge than anything else. The people I've encountered from my past have all grown up since then. Revenge seems completely senseless in this light. If you're acting purely in the name of revenge then you are wrong. If you are neutralizing an active threat then you are in the right (but make sure you WMD are actually there first).
Photos.
Perhaps another aspect of maturity is less confrontational discussion. Maybe an eye towards collaboration instead of denunciation? 'Grow up' indeed.
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