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Real Sues Baseball Over Windows Media
westlake writes 'According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, RealNetworks has sued Major League Baseball over its use of Windows Media. The dispute began with MLB's decision to stream exhibition games in WMA format only, under its revised contract, Real claims all live MLB streams must include RealMedia as an option. The piece states: 'Windows Media Player controlled about 34 percent of the U.S. market, compared with nearly 19 percent for RealOne player and 10 percent for QuickTime player, according to January data from Nielsen/NetRatings.'"
I hope Real wins, Major League Baseball sticks by the terms of the contract they signed, and Microsoft has to start dealing with competition.
But on the other hand, if all three parties got wiped out by a freak comet impact, I'd be even happier!
before I die, I'd love to see a company actually try to innovate, instead of sueing.
a regular contract dispute to me. "Where's the beef?"
What?
I don't use RealPlayer at all. If for some reason a website offers only RealPlayer videos I just do without. not a big deal for me. much more annoying, as you say, to remove the tentacles of Real after you've installed their "free" player.
-sweatyb
Just imagine it: Major Leaguers with bats chasing down lawyers. GTA only with not so innocent civilians...
There's a growing sense that even if The Future comes,
most of us won't be able to afford it.
-- Lemmy
They're just being proactive instead of waiting for Microsoft to "innovate" them off the map.
I can't see what's wrong with the lawsuit. RealNetworks has a contract with MLB.
Please note that Real is not asking MLB to only broadcast in Real, as the article stated, "MLB is free to use Microsoft's Windows Media format if it wants, but under the Feb. 8 agreement, it also must use RealNetworks' RealMedia format to provide live coverage of the entire baseball season, including spring training."
I admit I haven't RTFA, but 34% (WMP) + 19% (Real) + 10% (QT) leaves 37% to add to 100. I'm assuming this is only streaming video, so what takes up that extra market share?
-Trillian
Real is just doing what other failing industries are doing. Biting the hand that feeds them. Real hasn't been losing money because of MLB didn't want to renew the contract as it was previously, it has been losing money because it sucks. Large groups of people (no matter how stupid) will eventually pick the better format. I am not saying that Windows Media is the better format, but when you only have two options, Real or Windows Media, you be the Judge.
-- johntracy.com, because everybody else is wrong.
The disagreement is about MLB not using real to broadcast the preseason games, which Real believes is part of their contract. This kind of debate is something jocks can provide us the most insight on, on whether preseason is real baseball or not, on a technical and a meaningful level (Does the preseason really matter of affect how the regular season will go?)
While I haven't read the contract, and am not a lawyer, based on the information in the article this is a stupid lawsuit by Real. They are alleging that the phrase "baseball season" in their contract with MLB includes the exhibition serieses and the World Series.
Every baseball fan knows the term "preseason" and "postseason". Apparently Real Networks does not, and thinks it's grounds for a lawsuit.
Anybody got deeper info?
Since real has licensed QT codecs I wonder how they figured out who has what penetration? They must be looking at what people are using to view/listen to the media as opposed to actual installed user base.
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
I take it MLB didn't get "Expressed Written Consent" for that.
Karma: 0xdeadbeef(mostly as a result of being newly allocated)
We all know that baseball fans just love the superior xvid format as well as mplayer. Besides, compiling gentoo gives them something interresting to watch during the game.
----
Go canucks, habs, and sens!
I think slashdot users should take note due to platform selection. I have paid for the mlb broadcasts the last two years since I could listen to the Redsox in Baltimore at home and work. Now, with windows media being the only stream being offered, I will not be able to listen to the broadcasts as windows media player doesn't support either my linux machines (or solaris the other OS I use). So MLB take note, I probably won't renew this year if media player is all you offer.
I don't understand libertarians. All you guys complain about is how the judicial system interferes with capitalism blah blah blah, and that they should stay out of everything except contract enforcement. Real brings a breach of contract action and you STILL complain! This has nothing to do with the quality of Real's software (yes it sucks, and it always has), it has to do with a CONTRACT.
"westlake writes 'According to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, RealNetworks has sued Major League Baseball over its use of Windows Media. "
Wrong. They're suing MLB for NOT using Real. This news would be mildly more interesting if MS told MLB not to use Real. But the article doesn't say that happened, so put your pitchfork down. I can't believe that's the headline over there.
Actually, Real's probably in the right over this assuming the contract is as clearly stated as it is mentioned in the article.
"Derp de derp."
They can if you sign a contract with them saying you will.
"will microsoft sue me for not using windows?"
Same thing, if you sign an actual contract with Microsoft, then you're bound by that contract. We're not even talking about an Eula here, we're talking about a real bona fide contract.
PLAINTIFF, Real Networks, Inc. hereby does... ::Buffering...::Buffering...::
-- "Complacency is a far more dangerous attitude than outrage." -Naomi Littlebear
Even better, Real is desperate to hold on to this contract, since apparently the old contract (which granted exclusivity to Real) was costing them more than it brought in. Maybe they'll finally create a profitable business model? Hey there's a good one, Real posts a profit while streaming a Red Sox World Series victory...
The whole thing is about marketing. If you have agreed to mention Blah Inc. during your press conference, but you failed to do so, you'll get sued. And it doesn't matter if you want to also mention Baa Inc., but you must mention Blah Inc.
MLB failed to give RealNetworks such marketing presence, thus gets sued.
Real Player: Free as in syphilis.
As much as I dislike the Micrsoft monopoly (Microsopoly? Whatever...), I dislike everything Real-associated.
Besides the Spyware, besides having to go through heck to even find the free Realplayer on their site.... the galling part is anything you put into a Real format is stuck there. Just try and find some apps that convert their sound or video formats to some other format.... it's a challenge.
Pot... kettle... black!
I have prepared a response, I believe that (buffering, buffering, buffering) the case has no (buffering, buffering, buffering) ahh the hell with it.
I hate sigs.
"RealNetworks has become increasingly willing to use litigation to defend its position in online media, after a sustained attack from Microsoft in the market"
National Public Radio's Cartalk website dropped RealNetwork recently for related tactics.
If I were a potential customer, I might think twice about signing up with them in the future.
Could be time to do a short sale, although these things can take a while to come to fruition.
RNWK's CEO may be emulating Daryl.
Litigation can be a viable business model, but when you sleep with the Devil, you'll probably get screwed.
How do you control a market? these are not commodities. A user can have all of these, or none, or any combination there of installed. Its not like an OS where the computer is running one OS at a time (side stepping the virutalizaton issue). So install base isnt a zero sum. Now you can distrubte the same content in multiple methods, so again this isnt zero sum. So HOW can you have a market share. Its not like the rating what people are watching as one tv can only be tuned to one thing at a given time (again side stepping PIP). Shouldnt it be the percentage of people that have the compatiable player installed. So for all internet connected client machines, X% have a compatiable WMA player, Y% have Real, and Z% have Quicktime. X, Y and Z have no corelation ( assuming players dont attack each other). So you cant 'control' the market but rather its a progess meter on how well you have been able to penetrate the market. It is completly possible for windows to have 100%, while Real has 100%, and Quicktime again has 100%, that would mean every client machine has all three players installed. If that is the case who has 'controled' the market?
Of course not. If you won't RTFA, RTFB (blurb).
This is probably no different from one providing binaries but not source for a GPL application. You agreed to provide a format in your contract, you either do so, or argue that the contract doesn't cover that instance. And if you're smart you do so even if it isn't explicitly in the contract, so there's no chance of a lawsuit and you look good in the other people's eyes.
Microsoft can sue you, and probably successfully, for not using Windows if Microsoft and you had contracted for you to sell dual-boot machines, and you start selling all-Linux machines.
As I pointed out in a blog entry today, Real's chairman and CEO (and founder) is also a minority owner of The Seattle Mariners. Thus, by Real suing MLB, Glaser is -- in part -- suing himself. Why are no reporters covering this aspect?
Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
The file format for MPEG-4 is based on QuickTime's file format.
The audio format and video format used in MPEG-4 are not Apple technologies. Heck, Microsoft unlike Apple is one of the patent holders for the video format.
Try to play a MPEG-4 file using one of the more advanced profiles in QuickTime. You can't. Apple only supports MPEG-4 Simple Profile.
If everyone followed Real's business strategy, Coke would be sueing many restaurants for not being offered alongside Pepsi.
Yep. It's an awesome customer retention policy too.
-- Patience is a virtue, but impatience is an art.
The thing I don't quite understand is if these stations are just streaming audio (and usually just stereo audio at lower than CD quality), why don't they just stream it as mp3 or whatever Shoutcast uses? It works great on every platform I've tried it on and doesn't need some proprietary spyware-bloated application to listen. They could still offer a 56kbps for modem users and a 128kbps stream for everyone else. With video it becomes more complicated of course, but with broadband you might as well just use DivX or even mpeg2 to stream your stuff instead of proprietary codecs again.
The parent is not a troll and should not be modded as such. The poster is correct in that the lawsuit is apparently the result of a contract between Real and MLB, and MLB is failing to uphold their end of the contract. This differs from the incorrect analogy made by the parent's parent, since the parent is explaining how this is within the bounds of contract law.
Next thing you know, they'll be suing Click and Clack from CarTalk. They recently dumped Real in favor of Windows Media because of the difficulty in getting the real "Free" Real player, and then all of the pop-ups it had. WMP was just easier and less painful to their customers and their mailbox.
Sometimes MS does get it right, at least a little bit.
No Not Again! Its whats for dinner.
<are you sitting down?>
Well, OK, maybe not right out of the box. But at least you don't have to resort to modifying registry entries, deleting executable helper apps, or deciphering ambiguously-worded menu items to make it behave.
Even better, a senior RealNetworks engineer has taken the time to provide a step-by-step guide detailing how to turn of all the annoying RealOne features!
The lawsuit should be ruled invalid. MLB bought a service. They don't have to use it if they don't want to. It's like If I don't play my old nintendo anymore even though it's there. They still have the option to use it if they want to though because they bought the option for the year.
Real needs to stop complaining and be happy they got the money they got.
Ps: Stop the lawsuits, we look like crap in other countries.
Ya know, I don't understand why any of this even has to come to a contract. I'll admit I didn't RTFA. Perhaps I'm naive (and I probably am), but can I not download (perhaps purchase) the server/streaming software from MS/Real/Apple, install it, and broadcast whatever the hell I want, without paying royalties to any of those companies? I must admit, I'm primarily a Mac user, so if a site is shortsighted enough to only provide their content in MS or Real formats, I just do without. I know MS has a player for Mac, but whatever. If I was the MLB comissioner, I'd want my games available to as many people as possible, therefore I'd stream in all three formats. I'm not sure where their priorities are at.
Media Player = evil corporate monopolistic empire
Real = Bad popups, bad software, bad website, bad people
QT = not available for unix (OS X doesn't count)
I'm not sure why Apple doesn't make QT player available as a freeBSD port and have a version for linux folk. It's a tragedy that Real is the only format available to unix users, even tho it sucks. Real was good back when it was RealAudio. it went to shite after that.
I'll stick to quicktime player for now.
While everyone is sitting here dumping on the quality of the Real player, has anyone actually bothered watching the MLB.TV broadcasts and comparing the two? I have, and the quality of the Windows Media format is horrible compared to the Real format.
WMP (and also running it in mplayer and vlc) drops tons of frames on most of my computers (the only one that doesn't is my Athlon XP 2500+). But viewing full screen is like putting on the glasses of someone with really bad eyesight when you don't need glasses.
Real on the other hand at least doesn't drop frames and full screen is bearable if you sit 5 feet away from your screen. (Even on a 4 year old 400mhz G3 PowerBook).
I do wish that they'd just go with some free mpeg4 based codec or at least any mpeg4 based codec so you could have the option of viewing it in any player on most any platform.
who has the other 37% of the streaming video market ?
I'd guess standard MPEG video. Not even MPEG-2, just plain old MPEG-1, like on a VideoCD.
If you check out pr0n sites, standard MPEG-1 is a very common format for pr0n video download. Uh, not that I would know... I heard it... somewhere... um, gotta go now.
Yes, I hear there's big money in streaming pre-season baseball games over the internet. the ad-sales alone are probably worth dozens of dollars! dozens!
Considering 34%+19%+10%=63%, who controls the other 37%? And mind you that unacounted for percentage is larger than the Windows Media Player share.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
They can't win in the marketplace by using their spyware tactics or actually creating a quality product, so now they're trying to remove the ability for businesses to choose any technology other than RealMedia. The obvious desperation here is sickly comic.
I think we should load SCO, Real, and George W on board a European mars probe and launch it, with specific instructions to crash-land on Mars and never be heard from again... after all, Bush wants to go to Mars; SCO could finally find fossil evidence to support their claim that their propriety UNIX code is the basis for all life; and Real could start streaming video to outer space, instead of to us here on Earth.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
It's just ungraceful and inefficient. Oh wait, I already said microsoft.
Yes, you need a format. Some might suggest OGG, or mp3, but AIFF would work just fine.
From the source, the sound leaves ONCE!
If I listen to it, my little request packet heads towards the source. The routers along the way get the notification that I want to listen to M'Cast address xxx on port P. I get to the source as the first person. There is now a "stream" running to my machine.
If my neighbor decides to listen, her packets go upstream and hit the router we share. DONE, that router gets 1 stream in and sends it to both of our machines. (where right now with stupid cast, it gets 2 in and sends one to each machine). 50,000 people on comcast listening? Fine, the comcast cloud gets 1 feed in and sends them through the it's cloud to 50k people. If 20k are in austin and another 30k are in boston, then a stream goes to each city ONCE and the local routers send them to all the people.
Grace; elegance.
Neither Real nor MS would know crap about that, eh?
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* STD was, in fact, the FIRST BAND EVER to be played on the Internet's MBONE when they were playing at a picnic at PARC(?) at Van Jacobsen was just looking for something to blast out nearby. Google found me this. I'd hate to actually work to find this stuff...
That is bull. When people encounter a site which says "ok, you need to install this plugin", most people tend to actually install it. They're in fact _too_ eager to install any plugin. That's how 90% of them get those dialers, spyware and God knows what else on their machines.
.avi codec, I'm not wasting my time downloading DivX."
You may also notice how there's no shortage of people downloading DivX. (Seein' as there's no shortage of ripped movies on P2P, for example.) Not many start saying "bah, my computer already came with Microsoft's
You may also notice that there's no shortage of people downloading the latest and greatest Macromedia Flash player. There are whole sites available _only_ in Flash, and a thriving Flash ads industry. Much as I'd like to see both of those die a painful death, they're not going to. Why? Because surprisingly enough people do download the plugin.
Now if they had to _buy_ a product to view those files, they might think twice. But installing RealOne? I don't think anyone will start crying over a 10 minute download. (And don't start telling me about the poor people of Elbonia with their 9600 Baud modems. Anyone on that slow a modem doesn't watch streaming video of baseball players _training_.)
Why would someone then refuse to use RealOne? Well, how about the fact that RealOne is a spammy annoying piece of crap? Or that for a long while you had to dig deep to find the camouflaged link to even be able to download the "free" (annoyware) player? Being directed to a plugin site, and every link seems to want money for it, I can see how that would make people think twice.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.