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Dish Network & Viacom Settle Their Differences
weshart writes "I haven't yet seen anyone mention the fact that CBS and other Viacom channels are back on DishNetwork. They've been unavailable for the past day and a half, as was reported earlier. No word on the details of the agreement; and the DishNetwork announcement doesn't say anything about whether or not they'll be raising their rates."
Just in time to see Rupert get kicked off survivor allstars
"It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
It would be nice to see Dish stand up to Viacom and leave them out of the most basic package. I believe it is only around $1 for the programming but I don't like the fact that Viacom thinks that they can just raise their rates arbitrarily and remain in basic packages.
Besides, MTV is evil.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
And just in time for the good stuff too. (i.e. Survivor, CSI, Without a Trace, etc...)
I was worried I might miss some groundbreaking television like yet another reality show.
settle their differences. They rely on each other too much.
It's just a darned shame they had to wage their petty little feud on our TV screens. Like little children...
--
I'm robSlimo, the username is a
product of frustration after losing the pwd to RatOmeter.
CNBC basically described the situation as Echostar caving in to Viacom's demands for a $.72/year fee hike.
Looks like content is king.
I'm a Dish Network customer, and while I'm disappointed that I could lose Comedy Central, I know where to place my anger. Dish Network seems to be the only provider that goes to any effort at all to keep rates down. Viacom is trying to frustrate that goal by forcing Echostar to add yet another damn channel (Nicktoons) and raise provider rates on channels that are already one-third (or more, counting overnight "paid programming") commercials. Those costs don't get paid by cable/satellite providers - they're paid by customers who get the costs passed on to them.
Here's a few things we do know about the deal:
- One of the reported sources of conflict was Viacom's demand that Dish add the new Nicktoons network into their lowest base package, America's top 60. That didn't happen. Instead, the network will be added to one of Dish's more obscure packages, America's Top 180.
- The three notable Viacom-owned networks that weren't deleted from Dish Network, namely TV Land, SpikeTV and CMT had contracts that expired at a different time, and Viacom wanted those three networks to be tied to expire at the same time as the rest of Viacom's channels. Apparently, those three networks have had their contracts extended as part of this deal. No official statement on when they now expire, but I think we can all assume the next time things expire, everything will all expire together.
- Echostar had a pretty good anti-trust lawsuit working against claiming that the tactic of withholding the popular networks to force the purchase of unpopular networks is illegal because it's using a monopoly product (copyrighted content) to force the purchase of another product. If Echostar had won, this would send a shockwave through the industry because every content provider does this to every signal distributor. However, we'll never know the result of this suit because this deal agrees to dismiss all pending litigation between both companies.
- Every Dish Network Subscriber will recieve a $1 credit on their next bill, and those who also subscribe to a locals package that lost their CBS station will get a second $1 credit on their next bill as well. These will not be pro-rated down to pennies because the outage only lasted 36 hours. In addition, all Dish Network subscribers will get a coupon for a free pay per view movie, which is worth $3.99. The cash credits will cost the company at least $15 million, and allowing for the fact that some of the coupons will be unused the PPV movie offer should cost the company about $10-15 million. Ironic, because $25-30 million is about the total price increase Viacom was seeking.
Kissed and made up. ewww.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.
It's been on since about 10 or 11 PM CST Wednesday night.
"Inflammable means flammable? What a strange country!" -Dr. Nick, The Simpsons
All you folks paying for some sort of Dish based access feel like cattle now?
Boy I sure do. If anything needs a bit of regulation, this industry does. People should not have to wonder if they can watch their paid for programming or not depending on the whims of some fat ass execs.
Do you think Dish will compensate their customer base? Do they even care about their customer base?
Too many programming choices are an either or bundle situation. People are stuck paying high rates in return for few real choices about their programming.
Dish and Direct TV both should be forced to carry programming on a RAND basis. Their customers should be able to choose what they want with a finer grained degree than they do now.
The bundled programming does not save any of us a dime because the 30 percent of good channels are spread throughout the bundles. This forces people to just pay for all the crap at once, rather than be able to pick 'n choose.
We are seeing this because there is no real check on the power these distributors have over both their customer base and those who seek to distribute programming.
Viacom is going to lose on this one because Dish holds most all the cards. People are going to wonder what happened. Dish will make sure and tell them their version first.
Shame on you for watching such filth and enjoying it. The "filthiest" adult porn is more healthy in spirit.
Give a hand, not a hand-out.
Great.
So who lost?. Us. We, the consumers, lost. i really do not like this new ease at which the people are pushed aside and ignored so easily. It's really discouraging. The bickering spilled over into ugly text on the screens and then black bars over the ugly text. Who lost? Us. We lost. How many people are *actually* going to switch services? Not many.
No? Oh yes my friend, very few will. Why? Because of the hit they will take from "ducking out early" on the contract or a hit on credit for giving the old providers the finger. Not many people are willing to pay off the rest of their contract *and* start paying a new one just to switch service over this.
Lesson to the providers? We can do whatever the fuck we want (just don't piss off the FCC)...the consumers are too locked in and/or lazy to raise hell on us.
Sad. Very, very sad.
I feel for you guys... I only watch two channels, Comedy Central and Cartoon Network (both of which, I believe, you lost for a day or two with this whole Viacom shenanigan).
I honestly don't know what I'd do without my Comedy Central and Adult Swim on Cartoon network. I nearly LOST it on my cable company when I moved to a new place DOWN THE STREET from my old place, and had a different cable 'offering' that excluded Comedy Central. I was bouncing off the walls trying to find things to do with my life instead of watch Comedy Central all day long.
Now I have a baby girl. Guess I found something to do instead of watch TV.
Check out the best P2P sharing website: MEDIACHEST.COM
Too Britney, Justin, P. Diddy and all, I say, "Foo"
S'cuse me while I go frolic naked in the periwinkle. Woo!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Damn ! Dish will now pull the plug on channel 347 which had LOTR reruns and a few interesting movies. It was a lot better than the other crappy viacom channels.
Than again, I hate all tickers/corner ads.
After a few nights of "Off line - Press Info" on a host of Viacom-owned channels in my lineup, I've realized how little I cared for those channels anyway. I almost never watched VH1 or Nickelodeon or CBS, but I kept them in my channel list on the off chance a decent show popped up.
Now, I think I can safely remove them from my favorites list and reduce the scrolling in the guide between useful channels.
There's nothing like being deprived of something to learn how little you needed it in the first place.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Viacom, I explained, wants Dish to buy a whole package of stations, even though Dish thinks some of the channels aren't worth it. Dish wants to pick and choose the stations they buy.
Fair enough. Except I realized that when I signed up for Dish, I also thought some of the channels aren't worth paying for. But in this case, Dish sees things differently:Apparently, Dish wants it both ways. Packages are a great idea when Dish forces them on me, but not acceptable when Viacom forces them on them.
The aforementioned 8-year-old got it right: "They're just fighting like 3-year-olds over a toy, aren't they?" And picking which side to root for is about as silly.
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
Well that didn't take long.. Me=Cable- History, Discovery, and TLC.. Nothing on the dish interests me except Wings and Tech.. I can only take so much sensless ad spamming of regular tv, which has grown to Nill lately. I think I've blocked out most of the channels.
Just going through the pain of 2 days without Comedy Central and CBS have left a sour taste in my mouth. I was seriously considering upgrading my dish setup to include the new 921 DVR, but I'm upset with both Charlie and Viacom. Viacom doesn't directly get my money, but Charlie does... I ain't paying him $900 for a piece of hardware.
I was 1/2 tempted to pull the trigger on VOOM, but they don't carryTechTV, nor offer a PVR device.
Instead of watching Letterman the other night, I started reconsidering my options... Comcast does not yet have HDTV cable in my area. I have 4 TVs (1 HD and 4 standard), and I absolutely require the crack that is TechTV _and_ a PVR now that I've sampled the both of them. What's a geek to do? I currently use a HTPC to pull in local channels over the air, but CBS only comes in at around 50% signal strength (WBBM in Chicago Fiasco.) It would be great to get DVR, HD/Standard Def, and program guide integration so I have a wife-proof solution. Anyone else go through these pains?
DirecTV seems like an option, especially if I pick up the DirecTiVO with DVD recorder, and maybe tack up an HD reciever... but that sounds like it will cost me a bit of coin as well.
No you're not the only one annoyed. I have satellite (DirectTV) and the first time I saw it scroll I missed the first part of the message and thought it pertained to me. I was about ready to call and raise a fuss. Then I saw it again and realized it was only Dish that was affected. Relief.... then after seeing it over and over....annoyance.
I don't see how it was any different with MTV gone. They still don't show music videos.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
F*ck off. The worst terroist incident in recorded history occured in September of 2001, or can't you remember that long ago?
I was just about to go crazy snapping up CHEAP E* systems from pissed Dish customers as they switch, then sell them back to them later after this worked out..
I had figured on a ~30 day window. So much for getting rich quick..
I don't have Dish Network, I have basic cable, and I got all these messages scrolling along the bottom of the screen urging me to call Dish networks to harrass them about some I don't give a flying #%$#$^^&&*! about, and distracting me from my TV watching for days. Just made me change channels, not what they wanted I'm sure, or had any way of tracking.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
I've watched large companies everywhere. Microsoft, Viacom, DishNetwork/EchoStar, GAIN, and even Atari. They never seem to give an answer that is the "Truth". I have tried to get more info from both Viacom and Echostar, but I keep getting pushed aside like some little baby. What's the point of giving your customers buisiness if you don't treat them right?
Empathetic-- 94% You tend to walk in someone else's shoes a hundred miles before pointing a finger.
Just how does one go about issuing a press release that says, "We made Viacom our bitch." ?
Now waste another mod point on this.
A troll, perhaps, but you area misguided twit.
While you masturbate to some porno your mom did in the 70s, I'm watching Times Discovery.
Maybe it's time for a provider to try something new. Sure have the basic-plus-premium packages, but also offer total ala carte programming; just pick the specific channels you want. Maybe offer a /. package: sci-fi, techtv. plyby....what else does a /.'er need? Obviously the content rpvoders such as Viacom want to cram all their other useless channels down your throat, but it would be a interesting idea. Just watch hbo, cbs, fox, and espn , just pay for those channels.
The sat/cable providers talk about channels costing the consumer "pennies per day", but what is the real cost? How many channels does the consumer really watch and for how long a period. I wouldn't be surprised if it really cost the consumer $10 an episode to just watch Trippin the Rift, given all the other programming they are paying for an not watching. Bah
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a fat white guy who is threatened by change."
"... if this fight had dragged on, i'm sure they would have lost customers. but really switching providers over a few measly days of bickering, isn't that overreacting?.."
No, not really. No more than fighting censorship of "questionable art" on a small scale.
The point is WHEN and WHERE do the line get drawn? If these providers don't see *any* reaction over this - how long will it go next time? How much "down time" will be okay?
i fear you have missed the point of my statements. i am stating that the consumer lost here and the providers are, in a sense, just getting away with providing poor service.
Now for the next week Dish Network should scroll the message "Thi$ i$ a VIACOM $tation"
If she was anything like her brother, she'd have three boobs!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Here we have government mandated channels that nobody wants. In order to carry the costs, they are bundled with other channels.
I'm sure the same is true in many other places.
You think that the cable tv industry doesn't pull this kind of thing all the time? In order to get the same number of channels that I get with my current DirecTV system, I would have had to pay Comcast cable over $100 a month for their digital package, while DirecTV has more channels at half the price.
If anyone, the blame more likely rests on Viacom who will just assume that all cable/satellite companies should swoon at their feet for the chance to carry MTV and the rest of their garbage.
If you start getting the government involved in regulating something, you're going to end up with problems. Calling for regulation over losing VH1 classics for a day and a half is pretty stupid anyway.
slashdot, news for crazed liberal socialist zealots
There was a time that I wanted the sci-fi channel, but my local cableco wouldn't carry it. It took alot of navigation through their staff to get an honest answer, but it was basicly due to the fact that they them selves couldn't just buy one channel off the link, but they had to get also get a package which included things like bravo. It took a year or so of people like my self sending letters to the cable company basicly saying, "look, we are willing to pay extra for these channels you don't carry, what's the problem". It was the digital age after all, all we need do is phone up a special phone number and poof, we got the channels we've been asking for.
I see this as being a very much diffrent case. Sci-Fi may not be worth extra bucks, but Bravo and IFC on the other hand are worth extra bucks. This is also a diffrent case because we the consumer made it clear we were willing to pay for something extra.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
No? Oh yes my friend, very few will.
Unfortunately there were enough people switching in the span of a day to warrant news articles across the country (check Google News yesterday for 'Viacom Dish Network') stating that cable companies are/were getting an influx of cable orders from people jumping off Dish. In some cases, these people will have to wait up to a week for cable service because of the demand.
I'm sure most of these 'jumpers' did not break their contract because it wouldn't be worth it. Rather, their contract was up already and they needed their Nickelodeon for little Timmy (age 3-4) because he won't go to bed until he watches his Spongebob Squarepants or Dora the Explorer. One day was too much to take after his screaming fit (or they wanted to prevent that fit if possible).
Sadly, now they're just stuck in the position of paying more for cable because they're probably too proud (or frightened) to go back to Dish. I feel even more pity for the few fools who jumped into a DirecTV contract within that 36 hours' time.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
executives in the back room. talked ;) ;)
still dont get it? You not familiar with the mob, are you?
But maybe Western Europe will now finally wake up and realize just why US foreign policy is what it is. I only wish it didn't have to take the lives of almost 200 Spaniards to do so.
I couldn't stop my better half giving up on Dish (this is the second time this has happened in recent years) so their coming back is too late for me - DirecTV here we come. Hate to give Murdoch the business but... ...apparently the DirecTV sales were swamped by people moving. Doesn't matter about buyer's remorse, the costs are such that all those customers are almost certainly already lost to Dish now.
Stupid really
I was deeply concerned about it when I was watching this Monday's WWE Raw. For a few seconds there I was wondering why I was getting that ticker when I was getting that channel through a cable company.
litigious bastards
suck it sco!
Even though he munged it up due to sheer laziness, that's a 9/11 troll, dilrod. I think he makes a good point. Because Madrid isn't in America, we don't care.
I considered sending them e-mails congratulating them on not having them on there any more.
Sorry to point out your ignorance. The worst terrorist act was Hiroshima and closely following it is Nagasaki. Some where after that, we see Pearl harbour and 911.
...now have to purchase major satellite or cable providers.
If Comcast purchases Disney, along with Time Warner owning (surprise!) Time Warner Cable, and News Corp. controlling DirecTV, then the distinct possibility exists of them essentially reaching a truce whereby they agree to give each other discounts on each other's programming as a quid pro quo. Since GE (NBC, Bravo, USA, Telemundo, etc.) and Viacom won't have the quid for the quo, that puts them at a large disadvantage.
The obvious solution to such a situation is that GE and Viacom buy large (10 million or so subscribers) cable or satellite providers. Cox and Echostar seem to fit that bill the best (being the most appealing), though I suppose that with the Bells starting to think of laying fiber to the home, BellSouth could also be in play (Verizon and SBC being too big for even GE to realistically swallow).
Of course, with the FCC talking about, in the fallout from Nipplegate, making pay-TV providers, in return for continuing exemption from decency regulations, allow susbscribers to opt out of receiving channels they consider indecent with corresponding discounts, who knows where all this will lead...
Just like everyone has his or her own corner of the Internet, is everyone trying to get his or her own little entertainment channel going? And are they expecting to be able to use the cable/dish companies to reach into the consumers' pocketbooks and siphon out money?
The cable and dish companies have monthly price points at which they market their offerings. They know that Grandpa Joe Innercity is just fine with local analog basic service for $11.99. Bob and Mary Suburban are willing to pay $44.99 to get ESPN and the Home and Garden Network in the standard package. Tom and Bridget Twohourcommuters will pay $79.00 to get movies. And of course, there is always a market for pr0n and sp0rts, for which some people will pay extra.
If every channel is demanding $1.00-$2.00 to get into the standard analog package and the provider needs to make money, then consumers are looking at $200 per month, which is an oppressive burden on the median income.
In Minneapolis/St. Paul, Victory Sports is the sole carrier of Minnesota Twins Major League baseball. None of the cable companies have even stepped to the bargaining table, as the $2.30 per month demanded by the channel is too high a price.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/465/4316582.htm l
Victory Sports and Viacom are both taking the stand that consumers are going to scream for these channels on their service. The cable/dish companies are going to rightly state that it will cost...A LOT. Then we will see where the screaming goes. In the meantime, to watch CSI Miami on CBS, I get 39 minutes of show and 21 minutes of commercials. The credits even get squashed as they roll by during the local news lead-in.
Have you Meta Moderated t
Who on Slashdot.org really cares about CBS? GOATSE is more important to the web development community!
Dish Network does nothing but distribute the contents. They are sort of the middlemen. Usually, in capitalism, the middlemen make a lot of money for little value addition.
However, in this case, the middlemen is getting squeezed from both sides. So what should Dish Network have done? Well they have 2 options
I am suprised that Dish Network did neither
Jobless Jim Renounces Linx
Indefinitely Detained US Citizen
"DishNetwork['s] announcement doesn't say anything about whether or not they'll be raising their rates."
On the main info channel is the following:
"DISH Network is very pleased to announce that we have reached an agreement to once again provide you with Viacom channels like CBS, MTV, Comedy Central, VH1 and Nickelodeon.
We appreciate your patience, loyalty and support in helping keep DISH Network the lowest all-digital price in America."
I'd assume that last bit in there means DISH Network must've struck an agreement that will at least keep their prices below DirecTV. But we all know what assume does. For those who don't, here's a simple equation: ASSUME = ASS + (U + ME)
But didn't 11th September only kill Americans?
It happens every year. They save the final few episodes for late-April/May when the season ends, so they'll get the highest ratings during the May sweeps period. Most networks do it.
I don't think anyone in their right mind thought that Dish could win this, anyhow. The timing couldn't have been worse, with the NCAA tournament and all. As much as I hate their guts, there was no way Viacom was gonna blink first.
Mind you, I've not been unhappy with Dish over the four (IIRC) years we've had them: they beat the wireless cable we had before, hands down. However, I do think they sometimes try to pull the wool over their customers' eyes. Of course, that seems to be S.O.P. for all media companies these days, and none of it excuses Viacom from what they did.
From the Dish Network statement:
One of the things I figured out over the last two days is that they actually use creative tactics to be able to claim lower prices than DirecTV. Take the Dish 120 channel package versus the DirecTV 125 channel package, for instance: $34.99 vs. 36.99, respectively, BUT (and this is a big "but") to get local channels you have to pay Dish $5.99 a month more. DirecTV includes those channels for just $3. Add that up, and suddenly Dish costs just one cent less for five fewer channels. I'm pretty sure the only thing keeping us with Dish right now is that DirecTV doesn't carry our locals yet.
Yes, you've got it exactly right. I work for a (not-to-be-named-top-tier) cable company. It is simply not possible for us to offer channels on an individual basis because of the media conglomerates, like Viacom, forcing us to offer their channels in all-or-none blocks. The best we can really do is three tiers: (1) basic cable, which is the local networks which are (usually) independently owned, (2) expanded basic, which has those plus the aforementioned blocks from the various conglomerates, and (3) digital, which has the other channels plus all the REALLY crappy ones that we were able to negotiate out of expanded basic, plus various indepdendent networks. It's really quite ridiculous. Every time we renegotiate a deal, there are always a bunch of crap channels that we end up having to add, which nobody watches and which force us to raise rates. Believe me, nobody would like total a la carte programming more than the cable companies--our profits would increase tremendously if we could sell the networks individually, at a reasonable profit, rather than taking a tiny profit on package deal for a dozen crap networks. We've gotten LOTS of feedback over the years--there are MANY customers who would love to pay $40/month for 40 individually selected channels over $100/month for 200 forced channels. And we would turn a much higher profit in the $40/month case. But it's simply not possible, due to precisely the reason you mentioned.
Howard Stern back on the air, my life would be back to normal.
"Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called everyone, they meet at the bar."
I despise Echostar, but their practice of locking people in with 1 year contracts benefits both them and their customers.
They spend more money to manufacture their receivers than they charge for them. Unlike DirecTV, Echostar makes all of their own receivers. They don't have RCA or whomever making them. If they don't have the agreement that you will be with them for a year, they can't be sure to recoup the cost of making that receiver. Unless you have their Everything Pack, they don't start making any profit off of you until the 2nd year.
You may be stuck for a year, but because of that Lock In you paid less for the hardware.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I haven't yet seen anyone mention the fact that CBS and other Viacom channels are back on DishNetwork
It might be because most people weren't missing much...
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not terrorist acts. We had already declared war on Japan when the bombs were dropped. Perl Harbor is closer to a terrorist incident.
For those complaining about this spat between Viacom and Dish Network know this, I got my bill from Comcast and it was increased by $3.
What do I get for that extra $3? Nothing that I can see. No new channels, no better reception and still the theft of 15 minutes of service every hour on CNN Headline News (they put their own crappy program on for the last 7.5 minutes or so at the bottom and top of every hour).
At least you folks have satellite. Being in an apartment limits me to one choice.
(Emphasis mine.)
Dish doesn't necessarily want it both ways. You might want tho think of it as a bit of an ugly trickle-down effect...
The content providers, like Viacom, are all forcing these package deals onto Dish (and others). This makes it completely unfeasible for Dish to offer anything ala carte; if Dish sells Comedy Central to Joe Customer, Viacom insists they pay for MTV too!
When they say, "Our packages have been setup in balance with cost effectiveness and consumer demand. One way to help keep our customer's programming costs low is to provide stations in packages, rather than ala carte," it is a perfectly reasonable explanation.
They pick a few of the more popular bundles (ie. Viacom's channels and some others) and sell them as a package, making the price cheap as possible while hopefully satisfying as many people as possible.
The whole controversy here was that Viacom wanted to force-add another channel to the bunch they were selling; basically, Dish could either pay for the extra channel (resulting in an increase in Dish's base price and many dissatisfied customers), or Dish would get NONE of Viacom's channels (resulting, again, in many dissatisfied customers).
Thanks to content providers like Viacom, Dish doesn't have the luxury to pick-and-choose what channels to buy. And so by extension, neither do you.
Hey, how about breaking out the ol' antenna if you want to catch CBS shows during an outage? Not that hard. And if you have an HDTV set, you should be using a digital tuner anyway. Then you actually get a better picture than Dish can provide.
Granted, I only have ultra-basic analog cable myself, so far.
Unexpected windfall of money is always such a delight. I cant wait for the $1 refund this month, I've got a couple weeks to figure out what I'm going to do with it.
I Want my MTV
Fortunately their biggest market niche is the low-end tier for not a lot of money and they were able to successfully defend that market. Being a subscriber to that tier, I'm glad this is the outcome (and I got a free movie out of the deal!).
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I complained to dish and Viacom by email, warning dish that I would cancel the service if those channels were not restored (I don't really care who is to blame).
I got a response quickly from an actual person at Dish (I was impressed by this) but not from Viacom. The letter was apologetic, and directed towards my particular concerns, but suggested I voice my displeasure to Viacom as well; this I had already done. Today after the channels were restored I received this dish form letter, which you'll notice does not address price hikes (or a lack thereof):
Dear Loyal DISH Network Customer,
I am very pleased to announce that we've successfully reached a long-term agreement with Viacom to provide you with CBS and MTV Networks including MTV, Comedy Central, and Nickelodeon. I am happy to say that this agreement will allow us to continue to provide you the lowest all-digital price everyday.
I understand that it has been a difficult 36 hours to be without these popular channels. We appreciate your patience, your support for DISH Network and your continued business.
As promised, you will receive a credit on your next billing statement. In addition, we would like to thank you for all of your support by sending you a free DISH On Demand Pay-Per-View coupon that will allow you to view upcoming hits like "Cat in the Hat" and "School of Rock." The coupon will arrive in your April billing statement. Enjoy a movie on us.
Everyone at DISH Network will continue to fight to provide the best possible programming and services at the lowest possible price, every day.
Thank you for your loyalty and thank you for being a DISH Network customer.
Charlie Ergen
CEO
DISH Network
I wouldn't want regulation, but I'd say some media monopoly-busting is in order.
Doesn't CBS have the right to broadcast over the public airwaves only because the feds essentially gave them the airwaves for free? You know, for everyone to access for free?
Since the FCC has resolved the issue of rebroadcasting local channels within a market, how can it possibly be legal for Viacom to withhold CBS from DishNetwork in order to hold it hostage so that other Pay Channels get accepted?
Doesn't the public have some sort of right to always see CBS?
Obviously, I must not understand something.
The rate increase Ecostar/Dish was fighting was 6 cents. And it wasnt arbitrary, they added NickToons to their lineup (only place to get a daily dose of Ren and Stimpy, Rocko's Modern life, Invader Zim, Angry beavers and a host of other awesome yet otherwise unaired Nickelodeon cartoons)
They also had several channels which went from having about 6 hours of programming a day reaired again and again to having full line-ups.
Even if its only for Nicktoons, I would pay 6 cents extra.. now the test is to see how Ecostar reacts rate-wise.
If they don't increase, good for them. If they do increase them any more than a reasonable amount considering they are paying less than a dime more, then THEY are the money mongers you need to be complaining about.
Just a little insider information here.. Viacom threatened to increase the costs to DISH to carry their programming by FOURTY FREAKIN PERCENT. DISH blew a nut, because they didn't want to raise their prices, but obviously if your costs increase FOURTY FREAKIN PERCENT, ya don't have too much choice.
As a Dish customer myself with about 1 year left on my contract (America's Top 60), I fired off a letter complaining about the situation, and my wife called and requested that our account be suspended until the missing channels were returned to the package. (You're able to suspend your programming for up to, I believe, 90 days, without having to pay a fee for breaking your contract. They usually offer this for when you go on vacation, so you don't pay for time you're not using the satellite.)
Judging by the nearly 90 minute long wait time on hold to reach someone at Dish when she called in, I'd say they weren't feeling like they "easily pushed the consumers aside".
I think if this dispute went on much longer, Dish would be looking at a large class action lawsuit from everyone still bound by a contract. (After all, my contract was for a specific programming package I agreed to keep for a set length of time. By Dish yanking several key stations from my package, they're effectively breaking the terms of our original service agreement.)
still sucks, already missed chappelle show. And if ya ask me disk network shot themselves in the foot on this one, while i was missing my tv shows i checked into direct tv, and its cheaper and i can get a tivo with 2 tuners for 100 bucks as opposed to the tivo knockoff with 1 tuner that dish network was trying to sell me for the same price. So im still switching
Does Jayson Blair contribute reports?
You're failing to account for the fact that 1 Spaniard is worth 20 Americans.
Just a month ago (before I heard about all this) I got a notice from Dish that they were raising the monthly rate by $2 or $3 per month.
"According to the Turtle" www.paperbackreader.com
ah, "the woes of an unregulated monopoly in a free market"...
(that's a direct quote from the pr director of the biggest cable provider in my state)
so put *some* broad choices in the middle tier:
sports package - the ESPNs, golf, YES, NESN, etc...
learn package - nat go, history, disc, tlc etc....
home package - style, hgtv, foodtv DIY, etc...
news package - cnn, hn, msnbc, foxnews,
fun package - nick, mtc, vh1, toon, comedy central etc...
that keeps your big vendor deals bundled and you have big swatches to sell to.
we're dumping standard cable for precisely this reason - there's the air channels plus maybe three more that we watch - amc, bravo and a tie between tlc and foodtv - after that - there's only so much you can watch - we've de-tuned everything we know we never watch - so we can actually run thru the channels before the show's over, and fer the love of god take the digital channels off the analog cable guide - you have to sit thru the entire scroll of 100 channels to see what's on the 40 we get!
sorry.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
As per Tom Freston, CEO of MTV Networks:
EchoStar recently raised its rates to subscribers by as much as $3.00 a month. But they refuse to pay MTVN a less than 6 cent increase per month they were asking for ALL of their channels including CBS and BET. When Americans watch TV, they spend over 20% of their time with the affected networks -- yet their fees are less than 5% of what EchoStar gets from its average customer. Consider that distributors pay over $2.00 a month to ESPN for that ONE service.
MTV Networks spends over $1 billion on programming each year. The increases in programming costs go way above the increases in license fees that we ask from distributors.
Echostar had actually already agreed on a deal with Viacom in January, but renegged on it and decided to file a lawsuit instead of coming up with a new agrement.
As for all of those talking about how good of a company is, and how you wanted the small company to win out...
They've been found liable for copyright infringement and for stealing CBS's signal for five years.
They have a long history of filing frivolous lawsuits, and spent much of their time in court the last several months
They tried to get a court to issue an injunction against MTVN - and they lost.
Echostar has a history of being rather Truant on paying their bills to content providers, Viacom lists them as being one of their "latest" payers.
EchoStar is NOT a "mom and pop" operator . In reality they are huge and powerful. With almost 9 million customers, they are the 4th biggest distribution company in the U.S.
During all of this, Ecostar wasn't taking calls from people complainig about the outage, or if they were you had to go through a long winding automated system to get a live human. Their messages consisted mainly of "Call CBS".
Viacom set up a special line and had hundred of employees whose jobs have nothing to do with custmer service manning phones to talk to customers about the issue. Many of these people stayed well into the evenings, in some cases past Midnight on the east coast to handle calls which flooded their switchboard from nearly all 50 states.
Something like:
- Package A: 30.00
- Network channels: 5.00
- Viacom channels: 10.00
- Company B's channels: 5.00
- Company C's channels: 5.00
- Company D's channels: 5.00
Once consumers know how much they're spending for what, they might be able to make their preferences known better and spend accordingly.The cynic in me, however, says that this won't happen *because* once consumers know how much they're spending for what, they might be able to make their preferences known better and spend accordingly.
It was a generic response. As I posted earlier,I e-mailed them as well, told them I was NOT a subscriber but went with the cause anywho. Same letter, but glad you got your South Park back.
I didn't want to delve into those tech details, but you are definitely correct. I was just trying to make a simplified model. I would also love to see a Sat engineer explain their bandwidth usage metering.
The other issue I didn't mention was that a popular channel like MTV would cost Dish/DTV more to buy than a smaller channel, so a smaller channel wouldn't need as high of a viewer base to justify it's transmission costs. The actual sats also have have more directed spot beams now, so Indiana would have roughly its own feed and California its own. Those two issues would help the per channel model, but I don't think it would help enough.
Any Dish/DTV techs want to respond?
IANAL, but I play one on
As pointed out on the thread that informed Slashdotters about the takedown, Dish didn't have to give any break (as per customer agreement), but chose to, as a sign of good faith. 9 million+ subscribers, cost to Dish $9 million plus. In addition in the next bill (or if you don't receive a bill, in a seperate mailing) You will receive a PPV coupon for a free PPV movie. Cost $3.99 to every subscriber who was affected (that comes out to nearly $36 Million) Dish took a $45 milllion hit on this. The prices will not go up. Dish network is still cheaper than DirecTv, and the price increase is less that DirecTv had earlier this year, and a lot less than my cable company announced after being held up by the same company over ESPN.
In addition VIACOM's action by dragging this to people on cable and every Viacom channel on every cable system and even on the competition was about as sleazy business practice I've ever seen. From what I understand both sides gave a little.
In this whole scenario there were no winners,only losers, regardless of which side you were on.
Actually Dish didn't break the terms of your contract. The Contract says they can change the programing at anytime by adding or dropping channels.
d ex.shtml
Section 1
From http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/aboutus/RCA/in
subsection G
G. Changes in Services offered. DISH Network reserves the right to change the Services that we offer, and our prices or fees related to such Services at any time. If the change affects you, we will provide you notice of the change and its effective date. The notice may be provided on your billing statement or by other communication permitted under Section 9B. In the event of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages or other Services, you understand and agree that we have no obligation to replace or supplement the programming, programming packages or other Services previously offered that have been deleted, rearranged or otherwise changed. You further understand and agree you will not be entitled to any refund because of a change in the contents of any programming, programming packages, or other Services previously offered.
Instead, the network will be added to one of Dish's more obscure packages, America's Top 180.
How is it obscure? Go to the DISH website and click on programming. That simple.
Charlie complained that he didn't want to carry yet another cartoon channel because Dish already has four or five. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they got rid of all their shopping channels: two home shopping networks, GEMology channel, health&beauty, men's, coin vault, spanish language home shopping, and my favorite--the cappiodimante channel. You can never have too much faux porcelain (cast resin) Saturday Evening Post figurines. I dumped my cable for Dish because they replaced CSPAN-2 with a spanish language infomerical. I missed CBS because they had a special on Gavin Newsom, but would give a damn if they dropped ABC permanently forever and never to be seen again.
signature pending slashdot approval
According the the FCC, as a tenant, you have a right to have satellite as a choice and your landlord/landlady has to comply or risk a fine.
Check out this page, and this one for some help on what your rights are.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Now, if I would just learn Spanish, I could double the number of available channels!
Anonymous Kev
Proudly posting as AC since 1997
(Finally got a dang account in 2004)
I am inclined to not think so. According to ratings if people bought their channels "channel by channel" then many minor but interesting channels would die out. What would be left are the MTVs, ESPN, and Comedy Channels. Sure these channels are entertaining but they aren't everything.
I have come to accept that especially in the area of pop culture the majority may rule but it is rarely right and often make poor choices. Where will PBS go? How many will really get BBC America? Are you really going to pay for the Weather Channel?
1. dish is going to make good on the viacomless time 2. name me one show on nickeloden that doesnt totaly suck 3. 99% of the crap on mtv isnt music, and 99%of that is foul-mouthed rap with no redeeming quality 4. comedy centeral, well i used to like them but...then i got hbo, and hbo comedy 5. CBS? yea i see-bs, and it is called survivor, the only thing on cbs that is worth the time of day is the NFL (or basketball this month) and they cant even show the biggest game of the year, a huge draw in its self, without a cheap 2-bit stunt.
I would go for VOOM, but in Denver we get no HDTV signals in our area (for another year the stations are broadcasting HDTV from a broom clost in an underground bunker downtown which goes about four blocks).
Also, like you, I cannot live without TechTV. I sent them a message through thier web site asking when they would have TechTV, and when they might have a PVR option... we'll see what they say.
Frankly, I would not mind a Voom subscription that included all independant HDTV channels plus TechTV. I could even live without local, or get them OTA from normal TV and that would be good enough.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"I haven't yet seen anyone mention the fact that CBS and other Viacom channels are back on DishNetwork."
Sure, except for the fact that I posted this at midnight last night.. it took you over 12 hours to post then you say no one noticed.
Whatever!
there was much rejoicing. yay.
"all i wanted was a pepsi..."
Wow! So it does.... But that's a really awful contract provision, IMHO. Basically, it means the consumer could pay out big bucks for one of the largest channel packages, and suddenly be told "Sorry - we only carry 3 channels on that package now. Too bad!"
It seems to me like this could still be challenged in court, as an unreasonable contract clause, and have it rendered null and void. (After all, this might "fly" if Dish only sold their service in one "tier". But the only thing people pay more for on their network is additional programming. Then, this provision single-handedly gives Dish supposed authority to yank that out from under the customer whenever they please, without breaking the original contract agreement.)
Actually if you check the agreements for DirecTv, any cable company, you will find similar clauses. The reason is the very thing that Viacom did here, the bundling of channels. In addition supose MTV goes belly up, and all of a sudden there is no more MTV, if the clause wasn't there, Echostar could be sued (or the cable company), even though it was beyond their control. In this sue crazy country we call the USA it makes good sense to have it there.
Mmm.... I understand your point, but disagree. I think a more appropriate contract would simply say that the provider reserves the right to substitute programming for equal numbers of alternate channels of programming, at will. That way, your "top 60" or "top 150" channels still have 60 or 150 channels in them at all times.
Perhaps, it could/would even be worded that "substitute programming will be of a reasonably similar nature". (Let's face it. If you subscribed to a satellite package mainly for the sports, you wouldn't fimd it acceptable if they pulled your ESPN channels and permanently replaced them with cartoon channels. You'd expect something sports related in the substitution.