Slashdot Mirror
Epic Cracking Down On UT2K4 Cheaters Already
qasimodo writes "Gamespot.com is reporting that Epic has banned the first cheater from Unreal Tournament 2004. You can read the thread explaining this on the official Atari forums for the game. DrSin, one of Epic's programmers started the thread as a warning to fellow users, and so far everybody seems to be happy. I agree with that, we need to stop the cheaters before they ruin every game out there. But the question remains: How can they stop them completely? Surely, script kiddies will just stop and go somewhere else, but how about the guys who write all the tools? They won't stop so easily." Elsewhere, nerdb0t points to an ACM Queue editorial on the subject of cheating in online games, arguing: "Perhaps game developers don't realize they're enabling roving gangs of sociopaths who are effectively destroying the virtual world the developers have worked so hard to create."
I always wonder why they don't make two sets of servers, one with all kinds of cheats enabled, and a good set. The cheaters get to fight each other for best cheats, and the normal people enjoy a good clean game. Everyone wins.
It's good to see them enforcing their laws, but how could this new super-cool no cheating system fail so soon?
SAILING MISHAP
As has been discussed in length already, it is impossible to trust the client unless you send each frame prerendered to every client pixel for pixel. Because of this, the only real solution is to ban the cheaters. The way this works is that the people running servers and Epic trust each other. When a client tries to connect to the server, it will check the CD key against Epic's master ban list. If you are banned, you will not be allowed to join the server. Someone could hack the server code as well as the client code to make sure this check is not done (actually, it's configurable), but the cheaters will not be able to play on servers that do such authentication. And as people prefer to play in a cheat-free environment, these servers will natually be more popular.
Of course, someone can always come up with a better cheat or a new handle, but each time they are banned they will have to buy a new game to play again. That's an expensive mistake for the cheater. Making cheating economically prohibitive is the only way, as far as I can see.
Writing a cheat tool is not a perfectly valid strategy for playing the game. It's actually a perfectly example of violating the user agreement. It's a perfect example of a reason to ban cd keys. It's a perfect example of somebody trying to ruin the fun for everybody else because they don't want to spend the time to actually get good.
In fact, a new class of game would be to simply provide the world server and document the APIs, then allow anyone to write their own clients. People could oompete on how usable their interface design was, instead of just how nimble their fingers are. (Other strategies such as maximizing your own bandwidth while DoSing your competitors present themselves as well.) Of course, there is no profit to be made in doing an online game like that...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
You said it yourself...games SELL because of graphics. The game buying public speaks with their wallets that graphics are the most important thing. When that changes, and only when that changes, professional game developers (i.e. those who make games in order to make money) will start emphasizing other things.
I expect this to come around sooner rather than later, because the graphics arms race is reaching a point of diminishing returns. There's such a thing as "good enough", and "more complicated pixel shaders in your 3D" isn't the kind of jump that "now in 3D instead of 2D" was.
I have a dream, that one day, man will frag and snipe without hearing the crys of WALLHACK, OMG HAXOR!!!! Contact your congressman about putting a stop to the cheaters. Paid for by the association of friends of elasticwings.
In my opinion, writing a cheat tool is a perfectly valid strategy for playing the game -- a good aimbot or whatever isn't exactly easy to make.
I suppose you'd be okay with a boxer bringing weapons and armor into the ring, as long as he had built them himself?
Engagements -- whether sporting or gaming -- have rules. They have rules so that everybody can compete on an even footing, know what they are up against, and most of all have fun. They do not have rules so that annoying little assholes who use aimbots can ruin everybody else's day by not following them.
If the rules of a particular server allow cheating, then by all means go for it. Knock yourself out and have a blast. If the rules do not allow cheating, do everybody a favor and don't cheat.
This is just common fucking sense, people.
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Blizzard set up 2 sets of "realms", an open realm and a closed realm. The closed realms kept the player's savegames on the server and while you were playing, all your character's interactions went through the server instead of straight to another player, while the open realms allowed you to play online or offline and kept your saved characters on your own local machine. Open realms also worked by the same system as fps's do, ie one player hosts the game, other players's boxes connected to it and none of the gamedata is sent to a secure server. It was a great idea and worked for a while, but cheats still crept into the closed realms from time to time. Of course, they were often patched quickly and the offending players banned, but that was little deterrent for others to try to cheat as well.
The way I see it, anti-cheating measures work the same as bug spray on a camping trip. You can apply it as often as you like, but mosquitoes are everywhere and at some point you've gotta suck it up and realize that soaking yourself in it from head to toe won't keep you from being bitten.
I always thought it would be a great idea for a development company to design a game, may it be a FPS, RTS or whatever, that ENCOURAGES cheating. For example, with the purchase of the game, you are given tools, maybe some source code or something, that helps you actually DEVELOP your OWN cheats. The whole point of the game would be to see who could create the best cheats and dominate. You could share them, trade, etc. I know that already sort of happens with some games, but not on the type of scale as I am mentioning - I'm talking about a mainstream, popular-like title. Hell, make a series of them.. an FPS, RTS, RPG, etc.. if it would help get rid of some of the cheaters from the games I play, then I'm all for it.
this goes back to my theory that games have been g oig to hell since (insert system name here), with varying plateues from the NES up to Dreamcast. old games were hard. damn hard. why? because if the game wasn't interesting, there isn't a whole lot of excitement getting your green square into the red castle. in newer games, its get you n-polygons full motion character into the 100 virtual acre perfectly rendered castle... thats all you have to do, but damn its pretty.
Don't worry - its just stigmata. Pass me a napkin and don't you dare tell my mother.
First off, let me clarify, I hate cheaters. I run an ethics guild, and one of our rules is don't cheat. So I have no desire to see on-line cheaters flourish.
BUT
If you spent $50 on a computer game, only to have one of the major reasons you paid for it disabled by the manufacturer, wouldn't you be shouting bloody murder? Especially if they singled you out personally? I know I would be furious! Chances are, I would go down to the courthouse and file a claim in small claims court the next day.
Question is, is there a better way to handle this other than a permanent ban from the master server? (Someone mentioned a set of cheating servers. I think I would be OK if those were the only servers you had access to once you were banned/restricted)
Better yet, does the master server just work for browsing playable servers, and could you bypass it with clients like GameSpy, or is it more like how Half-Life used WON to check WonIDs?
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
I agree about spoiling the fun though.
At the moment, people who play online games 'seriously' tend to go to LANs or play in leagues - where cheaters are expelled. Could this trust concept not be extended with a web of trust? Vouch for your friend's setup as legit and then cryptographically sign it. To play in your web of trust, he needs to use that config. And if you suspect him of undetectable cheating anyway, you can revoke your signature. (Am I making sense?)
This scheme is decentralised, whereas the current anti-cheating schemes are presumably based on DRM-like centralised trust. Software-only DRM is sometimes said to be impossible to engineer. I'd rather play with cheaters than install Palladium/TC hardware though :/
"Engagements -- whether sporting or gaming -- have rules. They have rules so that everybody can compete on an even footing, know what they are up against, and most of all have fun."
In fact, this is the fundamental basis of game theory: a situation with two or more participants and a limited (i.e. non-infinite) set of available actions, with all participants trying to achieve the best outcome for themselves. Cheating breaks the whole concept of the "game" apart.
I wonder if cheaters know this? My guess is that they just can't recognize that disrupting fair competition is not a measure of their skill.
+++Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And Reboot.+++
"I'm sure at least some cheat writers have most of their fun seeing how long they can cheat before they get caught."
Kinda like shoplifting to see how long you can get away before you get taken away by the police.
I disagree with this completely. Every single player game is designed so that one person, i.e. YOU, plow through it steadily to keep your interest. When you lose you have to start over again, but YOU are the star of the show. For this reason, multiplayer games are very frustrating for players of primarily single player games. I don't think these people know or care that they are hurting others. They just want to win the game. (the ones who brag about it are excepted)
Actually some people just like to spoil the games and can do it without cheating.
During the ut2004 demo, on one server, a guy would come and stay HOURs just taking the raptor, and staying around his base, pushing players who spawned there and crashing it against them, killing them in the explosion. Then go back running to the raptor.
His team would lose everytime. After one week barely no one would go to this server anymore, because of him, which probably made him rejoice in the closet where he was playing from.
I could once neutralize him by going to the other team and taking the raptor to go the other base and destroy the raptors as soon as they appeared. That way he was forced to actually fight me in order to go back to his turf, but couldnt since he was really a terrible player. Which was probably the source of his behavior:
This kind of guys takes pleasure in a dreadfull and utterly ridiculous way because they are unable to take some in a simple playfull way like the others. Therefore the envy.
Other behaviors frequently met:
-killing teammates.
-killing hostages or destroying whatever important game goal.
-monopolizing important ressources for the team.
-standing in front of a door in a no teamdamage game, blocking the whole team.
-getting teamkilled on purpose then shouting "Team Killer!" and having a good player ban.
The worst case so far was a team of cheater, with aimbots, who invested a public server, went into the same team, and voted out every good players that would come to the game, in order to keep only newbies in the other team and frag them to death.
What was particularly pathetic was that by watching them play in spectate mode, they were again really lame players, barely able to move in other ways than in straight line. The game was et by the way. Even with aimbot, they were easily killable, so they actually banned good players!
I think Halo PC solves this problem by making everything serverside. I have yet to see anyone cheat on Halo, and it makes me wonder why more game's don't do something like this.
I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
Kinda like shoplifting to see how long you can get away before you get taken away by the police.
As the consequences for getting caught shoplifting are far worse than those of getting caught cheating in a video game, this analogy isn't really valid.
Rob (Though I wouldn't exactly be shocked if some kleptomaniacs thought that way)
If I get your CDKey, and I get banned with it - you can't play the game as you paid for.
Dat's a crime. It might not seem like a big crime, but I think once you got done screaming at forums about how you have to go plunk down another $50 to play again, you might disagree.
This is totally wrong. People appreciate money they earn MUCH more than money they don't.
99.9% of riches to rags stories involve people who didn't really have to work to earn their money.
The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
I think it fitting that the number one master hacker in all of UT (the zellius bot is legendary) is the first person they banned. I wonder if they sat back and let other botters (helios, Lamp, Ten Bucks, etc. ) pass by waiting for him? lol.
Karma: Bad is the liberal way of saying this guy won't drink the kool aid here on slash dot. I wear my Karma with pride
While I love the game (and will probably buy it when I get a chance to get to a store), it doesn't fill me with confidence about the anti cheat protection in the final product.
Totally disagree here. This is exactly what the Homeland Security office's response is to international and domestic terrorism -- harsher controls, clamping down on any type of non-identifiable interaction. Basically, everyone who speaks, reads, types, looks, smells, or hears anything needs to have a tattoo on their forehead with a barcode in it for easy ID by the Feds. In a marketplace, these controls make even less sense than in the legal realm. Once again, I will state what others before me (and will after me) have stated for years. It will be in caps, not as a shout, but as an attention getter: THE BEST RESPONSE TO CHEATERS IN THE ONLINE VIDEO GAME ARENA IS TO IMMEDIATELY LEAVE THE SERVER WHERE THE CHEATER IS CURRENTLY CHEATING. Ignore them, leave them. For some reason, it appears there were few people like me who had the shit kicked out of them by bullies in grade school. It took a very long time before I believed my parents and ignored the bullies by walking away and removing myself from the location. The bullies get bored and stop -- or go bug someone else not hip to the trick yet. Cheaters will get really bored if everytime they pull some stunt, every single player who sees it immediately logs off that server, dissapears instantly, poof gone into the bit-aether. They're left playing with themselves, which is nothing new to them, right? >-) Just leave. Vote with your connection. Go to another server. Yeah, you'll be moving quite a bit for say 3 months or so, but then the cheaters (I guarantee it) will get bored and move on to some new activity -- or they'll stick to servers where people are too stupid to leave. This will leave your servers clean and fun. Try it! It works!