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Passport to Nowhere

prostoalex writes "CNET News.com.com talks about less than glamorous acceptance of Microsoft's single sign-on technology, .NET Passport. Being launched as a single sign-on service for online businesses and competing heavily with open Liberty Alliance project, which so far has produced just a large amount of PDF files, .NET Passport is considered a failure (although not by Microsoft). Turns out, high licensing fees, lack of simple implementation, security leaks and server downtime, were not acceptable to most of potential clients out there."

97 of 361 comments (clear)

  1. Favorite quote from TFA by Liselle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Microsoft was kind of pushing Passport for a problem that didn't exist..."

    I think that more or less hits the nail on the head. This is aside from the downtime issue, which is embarassing, and privacy issues, which are disturbing. On the privacy/downtime note, the Liberty Alliance may be vapor currently, but the idea of a "federated" system sounds much better to me. It's not a problem I have with Microsoft, rather it's a problem I have with giving all of my personal information to a single organization to put into a central respository.

    No sir, that's bad sauce.

    --
    Auto-reply to ACs: "Truly, you have a dizzying intellect."
    1. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by michael+path · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had that quote cited and ready to post as well.

      It's still not an issue that exists today. However, I'm an avid user of Paypal because it's more convenient to pay with my username and password submitted only to Paypal's server, and let them return the "Success/Fail" of the payment to the vendor. It made eBay easier. It's easy to subscribe to Slashdot/OSDN using it. It's easier to subscribe to some porn sites using it.

      Granted, that's just the payment piece, and not the cetnralized repository of all my useful details - but significant just the same.

      Now, if Microsoft bought eBay (and thereby, Paypal), they'd have an existing solution they could extend to suit their needs.

      That said, the moment Microsoft buys eBay is the moment I evaluate auction alternatives.

    2. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by PacoTaco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft wants to push the distributed web services model. Web services are much easier to manage with a centralized authentication system (rather than dealing with many separate passwords/certificates per application). Whether something like Passport is right for end users is another question.

    3. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by js3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's debatable. I don't know anyone who fancies remembering a bunch of passwords for every site he signs up for. I even have a password manager on my usb flash drive because I can't keep up with password. I could use one password for everything but that's insecure too.

      So far I've used the Passport on two sites, mcafees online antivirus subscription site and radioshack.ca whenever I order something

      --
      did you forget to take your meds?
    4. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Otter · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "Microsoft was kind of pushing Passport for a problem that didn't exist..."

      I wouldn't say the problem doesn't exist -- every time a link takes me to an article at the LA Times, Chicago Sun, Telegraph or any other paper that requires me to remember some crazy new userid or to go through a lengthy registration process, there's a problem, usually solved by my deciding it's not worth it. Or bidding on eBay from the library, or...

      As you say, a central repository seems like a bad solution but I'd really love to have a good one. (And, no, my having to carry everything around on a memory stick is not a good answer. For one thing, you can't just mount them anywhere.)

    5. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by TrentL · · Score: 5, Funny

      I just use a dummy password for all those newspapers anyway. I let the browser remember it.

      Oh, and I'm not a 65-year old CEO living in Ethiopia, but don't tell that to the Washington Post.

    6. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by prockcore · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't say the problem doesn't exist -- every time a link takes me to an article at the LA Times, Chicago Sun, Telegraph or any other paper that requires me to remember some crazy new userid or to go through a lengthy registration process, there's a problem, usually solved by my deciding it's not worth it.

      My browser, just like all the other browsers out there, has a nifty little feature which remembers my logins.

      If mozilla ever gets that roaming profile idea, then passport is completely useless.

    7. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Sigma+7 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Whether something like Passport is right for end users is another question.
      While I'm not speaking for everybody, I'm sure there's a large group of people that always hate having to register for every individual website for the sole purpose of posting a single comment. It's one of the many good reasons why Usenet is still around. It's also the same reason why Gamespy's Forumplanet is keeping so many users in spite of having a poor forum interface.

      Multiple logins aren't better either. Given the sheer quantity of internet forums, a user will eventaully give up on creating new username/password combinations that they will simply recycle them (a big security risk right there.)
    8. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Otter · · Score: 3, Informative

      Both of you guys miss my point -- yeah, Mozilla and Konqueror remember my logins, on a single computer! They don't transfer between work and home and they certainly don't help me at a public terminal! Thus, Passport.

    9. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Microsoft was kind of pushing Passport for a problem that didn't exist..."

      The problem of single sign on (SSO) does exist, particularly in the corporate world. Vendors implimenting Web Portals (MS SharePoint, Sun Java System Portal Server, BEA WebLogic Portal, Vignette Portal, etc...) have a particular interest in SSO and identity management via Identity Services to present a single interface to various systems in an enterprise.

      My main problem with MS Passport is that it's Microsoft's version of a standard rather than a community standard. Applications can connect via MS's SDK rather than publishing the standard. Using Open LDAP, Sun's Identity Server, etc... will generally follow open standards and have better compatibiltiy to other open source/standard applications.

    10. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by blanks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't see how having your personal information stored on hundreds and even thousands of non-central repositories would be any better......

      I would feel much better with all my personal information being stored on MY machine, and having specific sites that I allow to access this information, then having my personal information stored everywhere on the net in databases, or to have passport like systems working together with site.

    11. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by MagicBox · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well the IDEA was brilliant. However, there's a huge difference between thinking the idea and implementing it the was it's supposed to to be. I also think MS had the logic of implementation correctly, and a partially working .NET passport system (which personally I have never used beyond signing in to hotmail). There is a few reasons that Passport was *doomed* from the very beginning, and two come to mind right away:

      1) The venerable WEB is just not able to handle such complex task. It'll fall prey to hackers and vandals. We do not understand Internet deep enough to be able to complete such tasks in total security and privacy. There's too many holes, that even those who look for them 24/7 haven't found yet. Internet has grown much faster than our ability to understand it and study it.

      2) one word: Microsoft. Yes they probbably have all my info collected little by little over the years, but I'll give that the benefit of the doubt, what I don't want to do it trust something (someone) that cannot be trusted. I am not bashing MS, I know they are trying HARD....but it's gonna take time and some radical changes for that to happen.

      --

      The phaomnneil pweor of the hmuan mnid. Fcuknig amzanig eh!
    12. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Cecil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd trust my personal information to Microsoft before I trusted it to Liberty Alliance. Founding member companies are:

      American Express, AOL Time Warner, Bell Canada, Citigroup, France Telecom, General Motors, Hewlett-Packard Company, MasterCard International, Nokia, NTT DoCoMo, Openwave Systems, RSA Security, Sony Corporation, Sun Microsystems, United Airlines and Vodafone.

      Perhaps it's just me, but it sure sounds like their marketers' wet dream.

    13. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by 1010011010 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PassPort? Jeesh - you /. dorks will replace a simple 2 second process with one incredibly difficult and annoying just to stay away from MS... You may think you're some sort of "Freedom Fighter", when really you're just a retard.

      How's the weather in Redmond?

      I'm sure PassPort will protect you from spyware, such as keystroke loggers, on those public terminals, right? And I'm sure that giving MSFT control over my personal authentication tokens is really in my best interest, never mind passport's publicised security problems. Yeah, I'm the retard for not trusting it.

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    14. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Web services are much easier to manage with a centralized authentication system (rather than dealing with many separate passwords/certificates per application).

      While true in theory, I still agree that there really isn't a problem to solve, at least not with the amount of technology in Passport.

      For example, having accounts on multiple sites isn't a big problem at all. As far as security goes, I set up username/password choices in tiers. Many non-essential sites get a standard username and password (a non-dictionary hard-to-guess password at that). E-mail gets an entirely different password for better compartmentalization. My home computer gets yet another password.

      With three or four levels of compartmentalization, password management isn't something I lose sleep over. Also, I'd much rather each site have its own account information, so there's little chance that one site could figure out what other sites I visit.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    15. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · · Score: 2, Insightful
      a user will eventaully give up on creating new username/password combinations that they will simply recycle them (a big security risk right there.)

      How is this any more or less of a security risk than having a single sign-on in the first place? ( Assuming equal security of the account storage, I guess. )

      Recycling l/p pairs can lead to 1 -> Several account compromises - single signons can lead to 1 -> All.

      YLFI
      --
      One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
    16. Re:Favorite quote from TFA by bonhomme_de_neige · · Score: 3, Interesting
      For example, having accounts on multiple sites isn't a big problem at all.

      The problem isn't remembering your passwords (you have local password managers for that, such as the one built into Mozilla, which are much more secure simply because your home PC would need to be compromised to even begin cracking at the password list... that is assuming you keep your home PC reasonably secure). The problem is signing up to all those sites. Each time you have to fill out a form, wait for an activation email, then activate your account, etc. etc.

      If your sole purpose for creating an account was to post a comment on some forum, which you more than likely will never want to post on again in your life, then there's a good chance that you'll just say "fuck it" and whatever you wanted to say will go unposted. But if instead of going through that pain you can just click the "Log me in with Passport" button and then post your message, it's a lot more likely to end up posted.

      I've found myself in this situation on several software support forums, where I was looking for a solution to some problem, and someone else had already posted the same problem, but it had not been answered. After I work out how to solve it by myself, often I want to be nice and post the solution, but the effort of creating an account essentially for someone else's gain is simply too much (I'm not an altruist ;p)

      The reason Passport failed (apart from the ones cited already) is simple: trust. In order for such a service to work people have to trust the organisation they're giving their personal info to. This already rules out Microsoft as a viable implementor of such a program - how many people genuinely trust MS enough?

      --
      "Why are you watching the washing machine?"
      "I love entertainment, as long as it's clean"
  2. Personally.. by Caedar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I never saw a need for .NET Passport in any way. Privacy issues aside, all Passport would achieve for the company using it is something they could already do with simpler, more secure, and less liable technologies already available to them.

    1. Re:Personally.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, and wallet services like Passport will eventually become moot if business merger mania continues. I mean, just imagine if Microsoft buys or is bought by a major credit-card issuer like MBNA. Then your credit card will be automatically connected with a PIN that allows you to shop on MS sites, no Passport needed.

      Sound far-fetched? Media companies are buying up content companies and vice versa... US consumer spending is 2/3 GDP and is floated on credit cards. It's only a matter of time before the credit card companies start acquiring retail interests. Wal-mart + Fleet/BOA?

    2. Re:Personally.. by CdBee · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I used to use Passport to sign into eBay UK but it failed about every other time. I ended up abandoning that account and starting a new one due to the low reliability.

      I lost several good auctions thanks to that POS system!
      I suspect my experience wasn't atypical and has led to this.

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
  3. Hmmm by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 5, Funny

    Turns out, high licensing fees, lack of simple implementation, security leaks and server downtime

    Yet they still buy windows...

    1. Re:Hmmm by MrPoopyPants · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who buys windows? People buy computers, it comes with windows. Most people don't know any better.

      I know you were joking (at least that's what the moderation indicates) but I just don't see people flocking to the stores to get the latest copy of windows. Adoption of XP has been pretty slow (even though it's the best windows yet). People sit there with spyware, worms, memory leaks, and complete shit on their computers and don't even care. It's amazing what the average computer user will put up with.

  4. Generic description by nother_nix_hacker · · Score: 3, Funny
    Turns out, high licensing fees, lack of simple implementation, security leaks and server downtime
    Sounds like a generic description of MS products.
    1. Re:Generic description by ThogScully · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I personally think that it's becoming the groupthink/chic thing to do to point out that the Slashdot crowd doesn't like Microsoft.

      Personally, I'd say the posting of that story should stand as proof that Slashdot isn't so biased as you seem to indicate. Moreover, whenever good news for Microsoft is posted here, it's generally studied with great detail and flaws are exposed in the methodology. For example, in the story you mention, they ignored worms, viruses, trojans, etc, because they didn't involve a person specifically targetting a specific windows machine for an intrusion. I remember thinking that the only valuable thing to come of that study was that Linux/Unix/whatever required actual human intervention to break into it, while Microsoft wasn't worth the bother when a thousand automated tools do it for you.
      -N

      --
      I've nothing to say here...
    2. Re:Generic description by nother_nix_hacker · · Score: 2, Insightful
      instead of buying into groupthink, how about explaining and citing examples?
      I use Windows, Linux and Solaris every working day. I can put up with Windows on the desktop but on the server it's a joke. Crappy error logs (IIS), amazingly bloated (Windows Server 2003), almost unscriptable (Windows Server 2003), un-modular (Windows Server 2003), Security issues advertised daily... the list just goes on.
      I could easily come up with Linux examples supporting the same statement. In fact, Slashdot posted the study showing Linux was the most-breached OS on the net.
      Was is sponsored by any chance?
  5. "Competing Heavily"? by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 4, Insightful
    [.NET Passport is] competing heavily with open Liberty Alliance project, which so far has produced just large amount of PDF files

    ...by this logic, one could say that Halo is competing heavily with Duke Nukem Forever, or that Coca-Cola is competing heavily with Cola Turka...

    I mean, doesn't "competing heavily" imply that there's, well, an active competition in the first place?

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  6. Problem that doesn't exist big time... by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It is widely pulicized now how to manage passwords for a website -- it's as simple as using other Microsoft tools, and so in a way, passport puts itself out of business by competing poorly with other Microsoft products. Why would anyone not just use an NT auth login, ASP, or one of the myriad of other ways to do a sign-on. The only place I see passports now is places where Microsoft already had a majorly vested business interest. Passport should go right up there with Microsoft BOB , IMHO.

    --
    stuff |
    1. Re:Problem that doesn't exist big time... by jfengel · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem isn't managing passwords for a web site. The problem is managing passwords for ALL web sites.

      How many accounts do you have, between eBay and paypal and Amazon and slashdot and ...? Do you use a different password for each one? Aren't you the least bit worried that the Slashdot editors will use your Slashdot password against your Amazon account?

      The idea of Single Sign-On is to put all of your eggs in one basket, then make sure it's a really good basket. Nobody trusts Microsoft to make that really good basket, but it doesn't mean that they're not trying to solve a real problem. It's a tricky one, because the trust factor is scary, and the stakes are very high.

    2. Re:Problem that doesn't exist big time... by Jerf · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The idea of Single Sign-On is to put all of your eggs in one basket, then make sure it's a really good basket. Nobody trusts Microsoft to make that really good basket, but it doesn't mean that they're not trying to solve a real problem. It's a tricky one, because the trust factor is scary, and the stakes are very high.

      The most recent Cryptogram has a highly relevant comment on this issue:
      [Suppose t]here are 10 $100 piles, each secured by individual $200 security systems. They're all secure. There are another 10 $100 piles, each secured by individual $50 systems. They're all insecure.

      Clearly something must be done.

      One suggestion is to replace all the individual security systems by a single centralized system. The new system is much better than the ones being replaced; it's a $500 system.

      Unfortunately, the new system won't provide more security. Under the old systems, 10 piles of money could be stolen at a cost of $50 per pile; an attacker would realize a total profit of $500. Under the new system, we have 20 $100 piles all secured by a single $500 system. An attacker now has an incentive to break that more-secure system, since he can steal $2000 by spending $500 -- a profit of $1500.

      The problem is centralization. When individual security systems are combined in one centralized system, the incentive to break that new system is generally higher. Even though the centralized system may be harder to break than any of the individual systems, if it is easier to break than ALL of the individual systems, it may result in less security overall.

      There is a security benefit to decentralized security.
    3. Re:Problem that doesn't exist big time... by TykeClone · · Score: 2, Funny

      Isn't that what Gator does too?

      --
      A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
    4. Re:Problem that doesn't exist big time... by mdfst13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That assumes that you are going to go to an overall weaker system. Previously, you had $2000 total protected by $2500 worth of security. Afterwards, you have $2000 protected by $500 of security. Why did you cut out $2000 of security? Maybe that's the only option, but that is a big starting assumption.

      Another issue is that while the first 10 piles may each be protected by $200 worth of security, what if they are easier to compromise in bulk? They share a user right? Chances are, you simplify the system either by sharing passwords across multiple piles or by using some consistent algorithm to generate passwords.

      For example, if you share the same password across all ten, that's really $200 total of security. Once you compromise one, you've compromised all. If the user has a consistent algorithm, perhaps compromising three reveals the algorithm: that would be $600 worth of security.

      Now, compare that to one system where it costs $2500 to break the single password. On that system, $200 or $600 gets you nothing. If either of the above situations occur, you would get everything even in the decentralized system. If neither applies, you still get back half the money for looking.

      Another issue is password difficulty. The easiest passwords to remember are things like names and birthdays. However, these are also the easiest to crack. If I have just one password, I use it enough that I can afford to make it complicated (capitalization, numbers, characters, long, etc.). If I have many, I need them to be relatively simple. Heck, if I just string my 20 passwords together, that doesn't increase the difficulty in an additive fashion but in an exponential or at least factorial (there are 20! ways to arrange 20 passwords) fashion. Maybe instead of $2500 security I now have $12,500 of security.

      Another example. I am willing to carry one random number generator as a key chain. I am not willing to carry twenty. See what I mean? There are things that a single system can do that multiple systems can't.

      Given the assumptions, the statement is quite correct. I'm just not convinced that the assumptions will always hold.

  7. Only used in hotmail by sapped · · Score: 5, Informative

    I actually created a passport login to see how many places they would use it and if it would be beneficial. Thus far I have only seen it used with Hotmail and on the MSN site. Have any others seen it used on other non-Microsoft sites?

    1. Re:Only used in hotmail by tim_uk · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've used Passport to sign into Ebay. It seems to work fine there.

      Tim

    2. Re:Only used in hotmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Match.com
      Expedia.com (hasn't been a Microsoft product since 1999)
      Ebay.com
      Paypal.com

      There are a few others, but those are the ones that immediately come to mind.

    3. Re:Only used in hotmail by Anml4ixoye · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ebay has it where you can use it for sign-in (though I don't), and I have seen it on other sites for registration. I had to get a Passport for work, and I tried it at some of those places. One site I signed-in with Passport, and it still wanted me to fill out all of the registration information - not verify what was there, but actually fill it all in again.

      I guess it made me feel good to know they didn't just pass over my information, but made me immediately wonder what it was useful for.

    4. Re:Only used in hotmail by Maudib · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, online banking. I hate microsoft passport, however Microsoft Money is quite good. My banks use passport to automate ms money's connection to them. The accounting, portfolio and transaction management is massively simplified thanks to passport. Granted my paranoia led me to encrypt the whole drive the MS Money files were stored on, but it is still very usefull. A level of integration was achieved here that I have not seen anywere else. It is quite excellent, and I wish there was an alternate provider.

    5. Re:Only used in hotmail by Deimios · · Score: 2, Informative

      I work for an ISP that provides MSN wholesale to customers and we have to use a .net passport to sign into the customer information tool, its a pain in the ass.

    6. Re:Only used in hotmail by lrucker · · Score: 2, Informative
      there are LOTS of sites that use it. Starbucks, eBay, Citicards.com....

      When Passport was new, that was the only way you could buy stuff at Starbucks website, but they've made it optional since then.

    7. Re:Only used in hotmail by jlechem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And all it manages to accomplish is people getting their accounts hacked. A hacker gets into a persons passport and voila they have access to eBay and start committing fraud in that persons name.

      --
      Hold up, wait a minute, let me put some pimpin in it
    8. Re:Only used in hotmail by dasmegabyte · · Score: 2, Informative

      I needed to open a Passport account to get content on my Verizon phone.

      Once I did, it opened the doors to tons of content I didn't give a shit about. I just wanted to delete all the useless bookmarks they shove in there.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
  8. No thanks by Orien · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I like the concept of passport, but I'm not going to get in bed with Microsoft to put it on my web servers. Besides, it has always seemed to me that doing a scheme like that would introduce so many more points of failure to your web system, that it wouldn't be worth the trouble. That's not to mention security. Somehow I just feel safer when I have to log in to each site separatly.

    1. Re:No thanks by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like the concept of passport ...


      The entire concept is flawed from the get-go.

      If I wanted my passwords stored on a computer, then I might as well do away with them completely.

      But assuming I did want to to store my passwords on a computer, I'd want them on my computer.

      And if for some reason, I wanted to store them with a third party, I wouldn't want the storage to be a single sourced service.

      And if was willing to accept a single sourced service, I still wouldn't want that source to be Microsoft.

      And assuming you get past all of the above, you still need to convince the vendor that it's good for them too - and you'll need to convince a lot of them to make it worth while.

      -- this is not a .sig
  9. sweets catalogue uses it. by Brigadier · · Score: 2, Interesting



    I am an Architect and I was pretty happy to see Sweets (the product catalogue) uses msn passport as their logon service. I have to admit it was convenient as there are drawbacks to having to remember every online service logon that you subscribe to. It's pitty this couldn't have been implimented better and or be more successful. It would be interesting to see if yahoo or aol takes a stab at this as everyone I know has a yahoo login. It would be nice to use it for everything none critical.

  10. Failure. by rhpenguin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An interesting concept coupled with all the bad parts that were exposed and its a wonder why no one wanted to use it. I use it myself with messenger service, but thats about it. I would not trust the security of my website/webapp to Microsoft.

  11. Just PDF files? by finkployd · · Score: 5, Informative

    Liberty Alliance project, which so far has produced just large amount of PDF files

    Which is all they intended to produce. Technically Liberty Alliance is a spec, not an implementation.

    Now if you are asserting that there are no implementations, the SourceID people would probably disagree with that.

    Finkployd

    1. Re:Just PDF files? by El · · Score: 2, Funny

      You were expecting maybe .DOC files instead?

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  12. 2 Things by panthro · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. I have yet to meet someone who actually has (let alone uses) a .NET Passport.

    2. If you are thinking about replying to this message with "I Do!", then I probably won't meet you, so see 1.

    --
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
    1. Re:2 Things by lpangelrob2 · · Score: 3, Funny
      1.) If you're saying that you've never met anyone that's used/uses a Hotmail account, I would find that hard to believe.

      2.) If you really haven't... hi, I'm Rob! Nice to meet you. :-)

    2. Re:2 Things by El · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every one of the tens of millions of hotmail customers have and use a .NET passport. That includes many slashdotters (like me). Granted, most of these are throw-away email accounts, but still, they are used.

      --

      "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  13. Concept Good, at first. by jolyonr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At first, the concept of a global authentication system seems great. We all have too many passwords to remember, the idea behind Passport seems great.

    But in reality, there isn't anyone who is secure enough, trustworthy enough, powerful enough and smart enough to pull off a system that would work and would be trusted.

    You need to have the strength and power to be able to build such a system, and with those, trust invariably goes out of the window.

    So for now I'll keep all my passwords in my brain, and pay the price of my mistrust.

    Jolyon

    --


    Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
    1. Re:Concept Good, at first. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      This is exactly why a service like this will never work. Much better for everyone to adopt digital certificates. They could be stored in smart cards (seems to be the defacto standard) or iButtons or whatever, you can copy them to multiple devices, and you will have to enter an optional key to access them in the first place, then the key to use them. Certs can be issued by whoever, the issuer maintains the signature and public key.

      With smart card readers being installed anywhere and everywhere (Lots of PC motherboards even now have a header for one, and the slot is cheap) it seems like that would make the most sense. They're showing up on credit cards too.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  14. Perhaps entering passwords and form fields... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...isn't such a chore that we would need a freakishly-complex infrastructure to save us a couple of keystrokes.

  15. Re:Microsoft and the FBI by ioErr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Interesting claim. Care to, you know, back it up with something?

  16. What's .NET again? by Eberlin · · Score: 2

    Was this .NET My Services?

    I know there was a .NET The Platform, C# -- .NET's Revenge, and VB.NET -- a new SOAP. A while ago, the company put forth this .NET strategy and then backed away as people started going "eh?" as to what it all meant.

    From general consensus, the .NET platform seems to be doing ok into adoption (if those "Senior .NET Programmer" ads are an indication) while the whole "My Services" single sign-on deathtrap was greeted with uberskepticism. If I remember correctly, this was one of the grand awakenings BillyGoat had -- when nobody would adopt it because of security concerns, he realized he had to coin "Trustworthy Computing."

    I don't think the idea is going to die away -- when they've come up with their "Best Windows Ever!!!" in 2007 or so, look for that same "My Services" pitch.

    1. Re:What's .NET again? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 5, Interesting

      .NET was originally a set of web services, then a service platform, then a server OS, then a set of services on a server OS, then a development platform, and, now, the most known .NET (because I think there's more than one, MS couldn't tell me for sure though) is the multiple language to bytecode platform/compiler.

      Is it any surprise that .NET appears to be fading away? Anything that mucked up by schizophrenic marketing would have to be simply the best thing since the goose that laid gold eggs to survive. And MS's products are definitely not that. (that's not an opinion, see the recent virus outbreak reports for why - just about every major MS product's been hit in the last 6 months)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  17. Re:Microsoft and the FBI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Interesting claim. Care to, you know, back it up with something?

    Back it up? You must be new here.

  18. surprising it is by spectasaurus · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Turns out, high licensing fees, lack of simple implementation, security leaks and server downtime, were not acceptable to most of potential clients out there."

    It's strange that this didn't appeal to most users who already use Windows. I would think people would tend to use things they are already familiar with.

  19. This is not just a passport issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have yet to ever see a Liberty Federated login screen so I'm not sure that it is even implemented. The Microsoft acceptance outside their own network is shifting, but I think this is an inevitable result of companies not wanting to rely on SLAs for business critical components of their solutions. This really is the single biggest problem of any web service in that you lose control and true accountability. Smart businesses will continue to internalize business critical components.

  20. Vendors don't want it. by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 4, Informative
    From the article

    "I can't imagine a Web site today being willing to pay $10,000 a year and go through the whole process necessary to implement Passport."


    Hello? It's not very easy to imagine a site that's willing let a third party handle customer information for free.

    Most companies aren't even willing to tell you how many customers they have, much less let you collect personal information about them.

    -- this is not a .sig
  21. Look for the .NET Passport Sign In button by GillBates0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    From the .NET Passport page linked to in the blurb, people are supposed to look out for the "button" and when they see it on their site, they can login with their .NET account.

    What's to prevent me from copying their pretty gif and collecting people's logins/passwords?

    --
    An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
    1. Re:Look for the .NET Passport Sign In button by RadioSilence · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would be called SSL.

  22. My $0.02 by pragma_x · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The original concept behind the design of the internet (DARPAnet) was to spread out the whole mess as to make it impervious (or at least resilient) to a tactical nuclear strike.

    Fast forward almost three decades and now we should keep desigining it to avoid tactical commercial strikes.

    If everything, like commercial web security, was placed in the hands on one trusted authority, some problems would be solved. (I for one welcome single sign-on to all my messageboards and other non-sensitive websites regardless of their affiliation) But build that authority on single corporate entity and the whole mess comes tumbling down once that solitary company folds, runs out of funds or cuts the project. Not to mention that they then have the power to determine limits of use to suit their own agenda.

    MS Passport is one such technology that attempted to carve a market niche contrary to the spirit of the medium it was intended to support. The internet is not monolithic and it's use and enrichment should follow.

    </soapbox>

  23. Lets hope today's failure doesn't pay off tomorrow by Fluidic+Binary · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .NET Passports like .NET in general are not merely about today. Many of these sorts of projects are part of a larger scheme of Microsoft, so today's 'failure' is also an investment for the future of their corporation.

    Microsoft is one of many companies that would like to one day see us subscribing for software monthly rather than merely suffering through outlandish licenses, having little knowledge of what is actually going on inside of our infrastructure and ultimately making them into another 'ma Bell'.

    Their goal is seamless computing, controlled entirely by monopolies. I think the advantages of this are clear: Configuration of software could be done automatically based on users preferences, licenses could be validated behind the scenes, displays of resources similar to what you have shown an interest in can be compiled by their networks.

    This future will be dominated by web based resources and applications. Just as Windows allows them to dominate the desktop, .NET was their plan for domination of net commerce and secure applications.

    The downside to all of this is clear I assume.

    I'm glad it is presently considered a failure, I merely hope their long term investment doesn't pay off.

  24. MS isn't giving up... by brucmack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I attended an MS tech talk a couple of months ago about the identity system coming in Longhorn. It seems like they are really targetting mass acceptance with that one too.

    While I can't remember exactly how everything worked (hey, I was there for the food), it was basically an RSA key system, with the private key stored on ones own computer. The main MS involvement was to have some servers set up to allow one to back up their private key so they aren't screwed over if their computer crashes without a backup... and the presenter seemed confident that there would be non-MS providers of the service as well.

    It seemed like a pretty neat idea anyway... There were also systems in place to allow one to deactivate their key if it was compromised. Basically one's computer could notify all of the places it had exchanged its public key with to tell them that it is no longer valid anymore. It seemed like an interesting system that took a lot of the control away from MS, as long as one trusts the OS not to beam the keys back to them :)

    The only real downside was that it seemed like they weren't too keen on getting the server-side software operating on non-MS platforms. But who knows... It certainly seems to be a better solution than Passport, since there would be no fees beyond having a supported OS.

    1. Re:MS isn't giving up... by mosschops · · Score: 2, Informative

      The main MS involvement was to have some servers set up to allow one to back up their private key so they aren't screwed over if their computer crashes without a backup...

      Isn't the whole point of private keys so only you have them? People need to take some responsibility in looking after their private data. I think I'll pass on their oh so kind offer...

      I'll stick with private local backups, especially considering Microsoft's far-from-perfect security record.

  25. Too expensive by truelight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Passport has extremely high potential. I tried it out a while back... I went to Slate.com after signing up for a passport, and clicked the "Sign In" button. Now, I had never visited Slate, nor did they have any data on me prior to this. When I clicked "Sign In", that was it. I was registered. No filling out forms. No nothing. From a usability standpoint, Passport has tremendous potential.

    With that said, the fees are absolutely horrendous. I checked it out - $1000/year for "small implementations", and $10000 for other. While I'm all for paying for a good solution, I can't see how having a single-sign-in solution on any website would generate $10000/year in profits.

    I'm sure it would catch on like wildfire if they just lowered the fees to more manageble levels.

    Oh, and buy paypal.

  26. Re:eBay by ptr2void · · Score: 2, Informative

    They do. One more reason to avoid eBay.

  27. Anyone uses mozilla password thingie? by alexborges · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I mean. WTF do we need an extra service for if the security manager can do it, also kwallet can remember them all and interact with konqueror....

    Even IE can do it i think..... so, i think the single sign on in passport is really a fucking hoax designed to lock linux and OSS out of large datacenters.

    --
    NO SIG
  28. Maybe by bryan1945 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Haven't read the replies (or the FA), but wasn't a big concern about Passport that you would need to sign over your first 3 children just to get authenticated?

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  29. No, I'm New Here by New+Here · · Score: 3, Funny

    No, I'm New Here

  30. Crap can flow uphill by cyberlotnet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with the whole concept in general to me is security.

    Company A holds your credit card information and controls the sign up system.

    Company B You make purchases through there system, credit card details are pulled from company A, your happy

    Slap on 100 Company B's each with the ability to pull your credit card data so you can make purchases.

    You now have 100 new possible locations for a hacker to crack, giving them access to a massive database of credit card data.

    A chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The more merchants you add to this style system, the better change your chain will break one day.

  31. Passport's Compeitors... by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Passport has gotten a lot of bad press, but there's three other major single signon systems in circulation that nobody talks about...

    AOL's ScreenName Service is used on all Time Warner web properties and partners, including AIM, the Netscape sites, all of the magazines they own and EA's Pogo games site.

    Disney's Go Network may have failed as a portal, but every web domain Disney owns still redirects to a subdomain of go.com such as ABC.go.com and ESPN.go.com. Therefore, there's a full network of news content, e-mail, and a few shopping sites contained there, all of which are Disney-owned properties.

    Yahoo also has a full "network" of sites within the Yahoo.com domain... e-mail, an IM client, games, shopping, and let's not forget there's a serach engine there too. Yahoo lets several partners have your entire account infomation simply by offering a one-click registration into a site such as WorldWinner.com from their games section.

    So, while all the bad press is being aimed at MS... several just as invasive services have quietly gained power.

  32. Just how many Google logons do I need? by LostCluster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Every registration-requiring service of Google nicely collects no more infomation than it needs to, but there also seems to be very little support for cross-linking registrations from one service to another. As a result, they have distinct logon screens for...

    - AdWords
    - AdSense
    - Google API
    - SiteSearch / Websearch
    - Blogger

    They just keep adding new services, but there's no sign of any unity coming...

  33. Wrong way around by realnowhereman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the idea of single sign on is a good one. The problem is, it shouldn't be implemented on the server side. KDE's new KWallet system is a very good example of how this should work - I keep all my logons locally, encrypted, and in a trusted place - my privacy is not at any more risk than it ever was. Now, I single sign on to the KWallet system which is then used by konqueror/kopete/kmail/whatever to auto-logon whereever i go.

    With a little bit of support server side (perhaps a standard way of passing logon information to HTTP servers - if the existing method is not deemed good enough) this could easily fake the entire passport system with no need for any centralised server.

    --
    Carpe Daemon
  34. My "Passport" by oldmildog · · Score: 4, Funny

    For each web site I visit, I have a user ID and then make up a 10 character random password. That's stored in a text file on my laptop which is then encrypted with PGP. When I need to log in to a site, I unencrypt the file, copy/paste the password into the browser, and wipe the file. This is a few more steps than what MS Passport does but is infinitely more valuable to me in making me feel my passwords are relatively secure. BOTH solutions rely on one password to protect all my accounts, but at least in my solution it's a 20-character phrase stored my head instead of one stored in Redmond.

    --
    They have the Internet on computers now?
    1. Re:My "Passport" by Kor49 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think I am slow today. Why was parent modded funny ? I do what's described already by using a neat program called Password Safe (on sf.net, by Schneier's company). It copies the password to the clipboard and after you paste it, close psafe, and clipboard is cleared.

  35. Other single sign on systems exits by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    here's Glenda's

    In plan9's the single sign on is a bit different as it can save credentials for your regular internet services such as ftp, ssh, vnc, pop3, imap

    secstore is an encrypted file store, one of which is your factotum keys

    here's some example keys (SECRET is where my password would be):

    key proto=pass server=www service=ftp user=matt !password=SECRET
    key proto=p9sk1 dom=outside.plan9.bell-labs.com user=mattp9 !password=SECRET
    key proto=pass server=colo service=ssh user=matt !password=SECRET
    key proto=vnc server=kit user=matt !password=SECRET

    one can load one's passwords into a text editor and add/remove them in secstore

    or do echo 'key proto=vnc server=kit user=matt !password=SECRET2' > /mnt/factotum/ctl

    if they key is not present, factotum prompts you for it and remembers it while you are logged into the terminal

    When you log out factotum forgets all the entries not in secstore

    It's a great system, I just enter my secstore password at boot and I have passwordless access to the services I have stored.

    though one tends to just hit power when you go to lunch you can just do 'kill factotum | rc' to unload all the keys and then 'ipso factoum' to load them from secstore again (i think thats how you unload them, i've never done it)

    servers need not know anything about it, no .NET libs to compile against or licensing fees to pay

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  36. shame by falsification · · Score: 2
    It's a shame too, because a big market exists right now for a good, cheap, privacy-protecting, easy-to-implement directory service: blogs.

    Connecting your blog to a big directory service would mean getting rid of comment spam forever. Blocking comment abusers would become much easier, too.

    In fact, if I were running one of these directory services, I would offer the service free of charge to blogs (for a limited time) in the interest of getting customers signed up and used to the service.

    Then, once it's established, the commercial potential will become ever more lucrative.

  37. the solution for logon-itis... by -O.ster_66 · · Score: 2, Informative
    check out BUGMENOT

    --
    "You get all the fun of sitting still, being quiet, writing down numbers, paying attention...science has it all."
  38. Ebay uses passport. by blanks · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://cgi3.ebay.com.au/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?Passp ortSignInShow&pt=-1&finalURL=

    Did some more searching, and yes ebay ueses passport.

    Does this mean paypal uses passport? If not will it?

  39. Humorless mods are gonna kill me on this one. by Thud457 · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't get it, I thought Gator already had all these features.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  40. Apple's Keychain by diamondsw · · Score: 4, Informative

    What works well is Apple's Keychain idea.

    If you want, all of your passwords (web sites, iDisk, e-mail, etc) are all stored in your encrypted keychain on your computer. When you login and authenticate your primary keychain is unlocked, allowing programs that stored passwords to access them. Programs cannot access others' passwords without your consent (in the form of "The application blah wants to access your keychain. Do you want to allow this?"). As would be expected, the whole shebang is encrypted on disk, I believe with AES. Finally, if you don't want all of your passwords in one spot, you can create multiple keychains (e-mail accounts, financial sites, other web sites) and unlock them only as needed.

    It's all local, all secure, very flexible, and by default so easy it's completely transparent.

    --
    I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
  41. LDAP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not that anyone will ever see this, but it seems that a distributed LDAP database answers most of the problems raised in these various articles. You get decentralized security/management with referral chasing while at the same time having a global tree-like infrastructure like DNS, so a single originating query retrieves the requested information.

    Adopting a common lookup structure to filter on (and this can be accomplished via referral chasing as well so that existing structures can be acommodated) would mean that your email address would identify you and your password would authenticate you to web services anywhere, with permissions based on the DN of the bind - if I supply me@domain.com, I authenticate via uid=me,cn=users,dc=domain,dc=com and the password I supply, and permissions are granted/withheld based on components of the DN.

    With referrals security and authentication is left up to individual LDAP directory administrators.

  42. get passport passwords with credentials, today! by tota · · Score: 2, Interesting
    What a coincidence, a co-worker (seating just across my desk) could not get in to his hotmail account today, but he could get in to another ms server so he called support and told them that somehow he knew his password but the hotmail site wouldn't take it.


    Guess what, they told him his new password over the phone, without asking for a single proof of identification!

    When he asked them if, maybe they were supposed to check his identity first, he got nowhere (something like "thanks, noted" - I couldn't hear the other end of the conversation at this point)


    That's trusted computing?

    Trusts who?

    --
    TODO: 753) write sig.
  43. Not sure how MS works, but by mdfst13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not sure how the Microsoft version works, but if I were implementing something like this, I would never allow logins to come from the site. Instead, I would require the site and user to log in to my system separately. Then I would give them a unique identifier or something to check if the user is logged on to the central system.

    For example, I might create two unique encryption/decryption key pairs and give one decrypt to the site and the corresponding encrypt to the user and give the other decrypt to the user and the corresponding encrypt to the site. Now they can communicate safely with private key encryption.

    Note that neither the site nor the user ever has login info for the other. Remember to discard the keys when done.

    A side effect of this is that instead of getting a login page when you try to connect to a site using the system when you are not logged in, you would get an error page (you are not logged in; please go to the appropriate place and log in). This would be mildly inconvenient but much more secure.

  44. back door by mabu · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who needs a back door when Microsoft is guarding your front door?

  45. Re:It 's a lot like by krray · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .Mac I use though. The absolutely wonderful video chat with your auto-AIM account helps (though you can get a free AIM account and go to town too).

    Moving from the Mac @ home to the laptop to the Mac at the office ... there's nothing like having all your mail on IMAP servers, identical bookmarks in the browser, identical address book entries, identical calendars (of course this all also goes on the iPod for easy use on the road :).

    Heck, once in a while I'll find I'd like to quickly move a few dozen work .DWG files. Sure, I could email them to myself, but I can also just drop them on my iDisk. Locally cached and seamlessy implemented. Don't knock it until you try it...

    I also use the @Mac.com address for administrative type email (of course auto-filtered as well) -- with another home email and work email address available. All separated, but all also the same "Inbox" -- everywhere. It's a backdoor way to reach me if you've been blocked accidently on the over aggressive spam filtering _I_ do @ work and @ home. Well worth the $100/yr IMHO.

    Yeah, there's also free virus software included, but what for? To scan YOUR Windows files? I don't bother...

  46. Of course Passport is flopping. by Zathras26 · · Score: 3, Informative

    First of all, as others in this thread are already pointing out, the security issues are problematic, to say the least... you want to store all that financial information in a Microsoft server, with Microsoft's terrible security record? No, thanks.

    Second, Microsoft already has a ridiculous amount of power over the lives of the ordinary consumer, and the ordinary consumer knows it and deeply resents it. Even if they're not technically literate enough to be able to use non-MS products regularly, they still don't want to give Billgatus of Borg any more power over them than they absolutely have to.

    Related to that, Passport is designed to force people to use MS products. I have a Passport ID (which I created only because I have friends on MS Messenger, not because I wanted to), and it's nothing but one solid headache. Just as an experiment, I've tried to log in to a number of sites with Passport using my regular browser, Safari, and it never works. It works fine in Internet Explorer, though -- gee, you don't suppose MS purposely designed it not to function with any browser other than its own, do you? Nah... I mean, they've never done anything like that before...

  47. My background on this.. by zeno_2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I used to work helpdesk for Microsoft. Well it was another company that they contracted, but anyway. After doing Win98 support I got moved to multimedia and games. Part of that support was for Asherons Call.

    Asherons Call (when it originally came out) used the MSN Zone login system to keep track of whos in the game, who has accounts, etc. Probably a year or so later, they (being Microsoft) decided that it would be better of all of the MSN Gaming Zone went to passport instead of using their own login system. When this first went thru, the passport servers got hammered, and people were unable to make passport accounts. Most of these people that were making new accounts were because of Asherons Call. Then the real troubles began.

    First, they had it setup so only one active Asherons Call account could be tied to a passport. Sure, you could have multiple accounts under one passport, but you would have to go to the Asherons Call website each time you wanted to use a different account, and change that info on the webpage. (What pretty much happens is you login to passport when you go to the AC page, and then you go into the game, you dont put another password or anything in the actual game interface). So, when you logged in, it just used the "active" AC account tied to the passport you used. This really isn't a big deal for those who have just one account, but there was a lady who called in with 22 AC accounts. Don't ask me why she had so many, people get a little crazy with these games I guess. So, for her to be able to easily login to each one of those accounts, she would have to create 22 seperate passport accounts. So much for the "single sign in system" that they like to tout so much.

    Second, the MSN Gaming Zone, and Microsoft are pretty much 2 seperate companies. They don't really share much info behind the scenes (im talking support wise). So, when someone called me up, they would say they couldn't login to Asheron's Call. I would have them go thru the process of making a passport account. At times, the passport account creation wouldn't go well, and Microsoft (at least at that time) had not a single person who could really help me with the passport system at all. There really isn't a phone extension I could have called to get more info, i just had to like figure it out on my own. Not something I dont think really should be done in a big support deal. Anyway, walk the person thru creating the passport account, and then going in and linking the AC account with the newely created passport account. For the few weeks after they decided to do this, it was the worst that you could think of, having to fix that 20 times in a day. It wasn't really our problem (games and multimedia) but they didn't have anywhere else for them to go.

    Ok, so that said, I couldn't imagine what a seperate company would get in terms of support when trying to, lets say, integrate passport into thier website. I was representing myself as a Microsoft employee and I couldn't really find anyone to help fix problems with passport, and I was access to the full MSKB (one of the cool things they have, even if it is all just text)Eventually we got some tools towards the end of my days that we could look up what account was tied to what passport, but it really didn't matter much because all the problems we had with it were pretty much taken care of. As a side note, if you were to call them up today, you would be talking to someone in India.

  48. Passports generate spam by quoll · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Last year we took on a Windows programming contract, so I went ahead and bought an MSDN subscription. In order to log into the online stuff I needed a .Net passport, and this required an email address.

    The address I gave had been around for 3 years and had never received more than a couple of spam messages a week. Within 24 hours of getting the .Net passport that email address was getting over 20 spams a day, and it has grown significantly since then. (Thank goodness it wasn't my primary email account!)

    Conclusion: either the passport user list is being sold, or security is nonexistent. Either way this is not a system anyone sane person would subscribe to!

  49. Old News by ChicagoDave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Jeez. The whole passport, name everything .NET, hailstorm junk is like three years old. MS uses passport for its own verification, but they haven't been pushing it for at least two years now. Find something else to gripe about.

    --
    http://chicagodave.wordpress.com
  50. Why don't browsers do this? by MikeFM · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why do we need something like passport? Shouldn't browsers provide this functionality. Or instead of username password combos why can't we authenticate using a single secret key that the user need only remember? Hash the secret key and a seed from the website. Send the hash to the sites to authenticate the user.

    Example:
    User's Passphrase: My dog is brown.
    User's hash: 87c5630aaae21c773ea493aab54022b2
    Site's domain: kavlon.org
    Site's Passphase: Red Rover, Red Rover.
    Site's hash: b4d1fe9cf7b3860a50ec7f21a2c09bb3
    Combined hash: kavlon.org87c5630aaae21c773ea493aab54022b2b4d1fe9c f7b3860a50ec7f21a2c09bb3
    Unique hash: e833a1237ac1afcaeed8f91139dc8e53

    So neither the user nor the site admin need know their hash.. just their passphrase. The site never needs to know the user's private passphrase or hash. The only code the site needs to know is the unique hash which is specific to just that site. Using a one way hash (this used md5's) it's impossible to brute force calculate the value of either passphrase or hash (although obviously the site's hash is public). Because the combined hash uses the site's domain and the browser verifies that domain there is no way for another site to trick the browser into giving it the unique hash for another site.

    With something like this the user only need to remember a single pass phrase and they could type it just once per session on any browser with any website. No doubt there are problems with it but it could be improved and then I think it'd be easier than something like Passport.

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  51. MS-Passport is inherently insecure by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful
    MS Passport is inherently insecure and cannot be made secure, even in theory. To claim otherwise would be false advertising. Not to mention that in the terms of service you hand over any privacy you once had, see the FTC link above again for an example of abuse.

    I'd be especially wary of sites locked into ASP or .NET, not just for the inherent security problems. PayPal, for example,. is at potential risk, as it is owned by eBay. But read the changes to HotMail or other similarly MS-Passport encumbered services.

    There are ways to do secure, platform independent, centralized authentication for web and other services, but MS-Passport isn't one of them. See Kerberos + LDAP instead. If you don't wish to experiment on *BSD or something else, all the major Linux distros include both clients and servers. There are even ways of scaling enourmously. Universities and libraries with electronic subscriptions should be able to get the most mileage out of Kerberos.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  52. Vapor? Definitely not. by g_lightyear · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's not vapor folks. The fact that you may not *see* the fact that your name is getting federated across a set of services as a federated namespace in Liberty has nothing to do with whether or not federated names are in use.

    We're just about to ship, transparently, a Liberty architecture here - and we're doing so internally amongst ourselves and our assembled services. There's nothing vapor about the technology.

    The fact that there's no pretty website offering a "Passport" to be used anywhere on the internet for Liberty is missing the point: that isn't what Liberty is all about. The fact that you could has nothing to do with whether or not you *would* do so.

    --
    -- A mind is a terrible thing.
  53. Sibboleth by KjetilK · · Score: 2, Informative
    Do people here know about Shibboleth?

    I think it looks very interesting, and it is much better than both Passport and Liberty Alliance in that you control your own data and decide yourself what you want to share (if I have understood it correctly).

    I haven't seen it been discussed a lot on /., and:
    2004-02-22 20:10:08 Shibboleth For User Info Exchange (developers,privacy) (rejected)

    --
    Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  54. There's a lot of really random comments, here. by g_lightyear · · Score: 3, Informative

    Time to clear this up.

    1) Liberty Alliance protocols aren't about setting up a single auth provider that the world uses to authenticate you: It's a way of businesses and sites to create an agreement to allow each other to cross-login, or to support logins from foreign systems. Any site wishing to turn its login system into an Identity Provider is free to do so - other sites can then use that federated identity.

    2) Liberty Alliance protocols don't require that one central identity hold all information. Each service provider has a local account which can hold information specific to that service without requiring your private information to be shared indiscriminately.

    You can Liberty-enable a set of websites today. This can be done transparently to users, and is about businesses sharing sign-ons and authentication information without actually having to share your data. Site X doesn't need to have your account information, or your password; it can find out from the identity provider enough information to know whether you've been authenticated, or direct you over to them to authenticate safely.

    Read the docs, folks. It's not Passport. It's not even really *like* passport, in its intended use. It's real, it's implementable, it serves a real purpose, and it's going to be BIG.

    --
    -- A mind is a terrible thing.
  55. Re:Use PGP? by Progman2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is that anyone can create keys with duplicate names and addresses. What you need to do is associate your (legitimate) key pair with your Slashdot user (for instance). This might take the form of /. giving you a message like "I am [username]" for you to sign and return.

    For regular authentication either your browser would need to repeat that process OR /. would send a message encrypted to your key, which you must decrypt and use. Either way, you'll be using your private key in a challenge/response system.

    That said, I see no security problem with it unless you get so tired of typing your passphrase that you change it to "asdf". :) It wouldn't hurt to look this situation up in AC2 and see if I missed something.