Ars Technica Looks At GNOME 2.6 [updated]

The Original Yama writes "Ars Technica takes a look inside the GNOME 2.6 Desktop & Developer Platform, due for release any minute now. It builds upon an earlier review of the GNOME 2.5 development series and their own examination of GNOME 2.4." darthcamaro writes "internetnews.com is running a story about the release of GNOME 2.6 today. They actually got a hold of Miguel de Icaza who had some real interesting stuff to say about it and the Linux Desktop in general. 'de Icaza told internetnews.com that a simpler interface has been the goal of GNOME since at least version 2.0.'" Update: 03/31 21:59 GMT by T : sn0wman3030 was one of many submitters to link to the GNOME 2.6 start page, including links to screenshots, documentation, and source downloads.

Comments

Spatial Nautilus

[ultrabot]

Incidentally, I'm testing it out as we speak. The Spatial Nautilus is very very annoying - it's much like the default Windows behaviour of popping up zillions of windows that you always have to turn off every time you reinstall Windows.

Yes, I'm going to go back to kde 3.2.1 Not because of the spatial nautilus that I can disable, but because of the missing "column list" viewing mode in Nautilus. I'm the kind of guy that wants to see as much stuff as possible w/ one glance, without needing to focus my eyes too much.

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[functor]

O_o

View menu -> View as List.

Resize window as needed.

Oh, look, it's a detailed columnized view.

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[ultrabot]

Oh, look, it's a detailed columnized view.

It's not the same thing. I don't want to see the details, I want to see lots of items in a small space.

Zooming out doesn't do the trick either, because then the file names are under the icons, not right of the icons like in KDE column list mode. If the icon is just left of the file name, you can cram more objects in the same space.

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[Shillo]

> The Spatial Nautilus is very very annoying - it's much like the default Windows behaviour of popping up zillions of windows that you always have to turn off every time you reinstall Windows.

Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

--

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[Figaro]

Oh...for that you go to the "File Management" preferences and set "Text Beside Icons".

You could also turn on "Compact Layout", but that's pretty ugly.

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[horza]

Why not use ROX? It works equally well under KDE and Gnome, maximises use of screen estate, automatically switches to small icons at a configurable point, and one click switches between icon and detailed list view. It's also blindingly fast. Seriously, try it.

Phillip.

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[drivers]

Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

I was disgusted when I read that in the article. That is rediculous. Expecting users to get used to using an alternate button just for their app... and if you happen to be thinking about the task at hand instead of the UI you'll end up making mode mistakes. Who let this through? Aren't there UI standards in projects like these?

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[Anonymous Coward]

run:
gconf-editor

goto /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser

enable this option

"If set to true, then all Nautilus windows will be browser windows. This is how Nautilus used to behave before version 2.6, and some people prefer this behavior. "

you get the old nautilus back by default :)

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[squiggleslash]

It's not aimed at you, and you can turn it off - that is to say, you understand the system enough to (a) be able to turn it off and (b) to see no disadvantage in doing so.

Most people have difficulty understanding the file system and how to find their information. I'm constantly amazed at how many people, for instance, do not even realise their files are laid out in a hierarchy on their systems (usually finding out that they've had their system set up for them by a "helpful" "expert" who's turned on browser mode.)

A spacial navigator is one of the few widely used systems that makes file system navigation intuitive. There are several reasons for this.

To begin with, it is immediately obvious that the system is hierarchical. This is not the case with the "browser" metaphor unless "browser" is combined with something else such as Window's File Manager/Explorer tree views on the left. A directory contains other directories (or folders contain other folders), they're not "links".

Secondly it helps with memory. Open a folder and it's where you left it. The icons are where you put them. You remember details like that. It's always easy to find the file you want if you know it's on the bottom left, or top right. You remember instinctively that the folder you just opened is the right one because it appears where you left it. A "browser" environment doesn't do that, you end up traversing through multiple directories that all look the same, and you need to do a fair bit of reading before you know where you are.

The major reason "experts" see it as a problem is because it tends to result in quite a few windows being open. This, really, is pretty trivial compared to the benefits for an inexperienced user. Additionally, better systems make it easy to manage those windows. In Windows, for instance, you can shift-click the close button on a directory window, and it and all the parents will close. Unfortunately this hasn't been replicated elsewhere.

OS/2 used to have this nice system where opening a drive would open a window that represented all the directories on the drive, in a sort of tree view. You could then open up branches of the tree to find the directory you want, and open that window directly.

Macintosh has a neat feature where if you're dragging files around, while you're still holding them you can hover over folders and they'll temporarily open, so you can move them without opening any additional windows.

It sounds to me for the most part a good thing that Nautilus has a spacial mode and that that mode is default. What's needed now is:

1. The "experts" need to understand the reasons for it rather than the kneejerk reactions we've seen here.
2. It obviously needs tuning. Apple, IBM, and Microsoft have all come up with sensible optimizations to reduce the "lots of windows" burden.
3. Improvements in GTK should be considered so that screen space is used more efficiently. More intuitive and automatic workspace management would help (such as the Amiga's launching of apps on new workspaces), the option of top-of-screen menus (which aids muscle memory too) would also help.

It's a good thing. I'm glad they've done it. For once, GNOME is getting ready for the desktop.

Next stop: File metadata?

Re:Spatial Nautilus

[Waffle Iron]

I'm in the camp that says this kind of stuff is bad. IMO, the whole reason computers exist is because so many real objects suck. If physical folders and files had the properties we needed, then we wouldn't need to take so much effort to implement them in computers.

Invariably, my physical desk gets stacked deep with huge piles of papers and other miscellaneous stuff. This sucks because I can't find what I need amongst all of the clutter. My opinion is that this "spatial navigation", or popping up dozens of windows or whatever, is just emulating this undesirable clutter on the computer.

The computer is able to manage navigation very neatly with features such as the back-arrow dropdown list in file managers and browsers. If such a feature were available in the real world, my physical desktop would always be neat and I'd save gobs of time. (Hmm, maybe I should try installing a cafeteria dish stack holder in my desk...)

I don't agree that always trying to emulate the limitations of the real world is a good thing just because the limitations of the real world are more "intuitive".

Re:USB

[altp]

USB support is done via the drivers and kernel not Gnome, GTK, KDE, QT or any other Desktop environment ortoolkit .

I Like Gnome

[Goo.cc]

I am a Mac OS X user and I have to say that I think that the UI of Gnome is appealing. If I was still using NetBSD, I would probably run it. (Hell, maybe I'll install YellowDog Linux and give it a try.)

Re:Someone explain this to me, please.

[Rick Zeman]

Doing a search for technica reveals that slashdot links to that site frequently, yet in terms of content they deliver the same kind of news

Slashdot doesn't create content, but just links to articles. Slashdot is a portal; its only content are the user comments. Ars does great work and their articles are their content. Their stuff is definitely "News For Nerds. Stuff That Matters."

As a KDE user....

[armando_wall]

I'll give Gnome 2.6 a try. I find it more appealing as its team releases more versions. Its GTK library is one of my favorites to develop with. But I always got a "something is missing" impression with it (the desktop).

Besides, I know KDE is free software, but I think Gnome is "more free" for all platforms to use (ducks).

What about

[big_groo]

Dropline?

Does anyone have any news on this?

Re:USB

[functor]

Look for things like hotplug, HAL Project, the D-BUS Project, the kernel events layer and other components of Project Utopia to get you things like automagic USB device identification, driver loading and GUI events.

Hopefully we'll see something in GNOME 2.8/2.10/3.0 that'll use this stuff.

(See http://www.freedesktop.org; lots of cool stuff going on behind the scenes.)

See http://tech9.net/rml/talks/rml_fosdem_2004.sxi for more info.

spatial metaphor?

[Anonymous Coward]

The "spatial metaphor" sounds pretty lame.

Looks like someone was trying too hard to do something "revolutionary".

Wow, it remembers the last folder you where in! So does the file browser on freaking xmms.

Everytime you click a folder it opens a new window? That sucks! Ya it can be avoided with a middle click but why do that in the first place, since everyone is obviously just going to use middle click. I wouldn't say that's a bug but it certainly isn't a "feature" either.

Oh god...

[bicho]

... I don like Gnome that much anymore.
Besides the panel and the fact it uses gtk, I disagree with a lot of things, like absurdly minimalist configuration options AND documentation AND a regedit-like nightmerish hell with also minimalist documentation.

Anybody has successfully compiled e17 ? (yes. I am aware its not supposed to be usable/compilable yet)
I have been waiting for it a looong time, and it seems there is always wan problem or another.

I remember I compiled once its file system when in e15 or e16 something, and It was really nice.... but haven been able to compile e17 ever.
Now, that is something I really want to see...

Re:I'm sticking with KDE, thanks

[Deusy]

until gnome comes up with an integrated all-in-one development IDE ala' kdevelop, I'm not using it.

You haven't looked hard.

What about Anjuta, or MonoDevelop, combined with Glade?

Well, that, and because gnome is slow as ass compared to kde.

Unqualified, unsubstantiated, stupid as ass FUD.

You're right.

[FreeLinux]

Installing Gnome 2.6 on your Red Hat 9.0 will "ruin" all the Red Hat stuff, in the sense of setting everything to Gnome defaults rather than Red Hat modified defaults. A better option for you would likely be to wait a couple of months for Gnome 2.6 to be integrated into Fedora and then upgrade your installation to Fedora.

If however you are really keen you could try the Fedora Core 2 RC2 release. Though it is only a relase candidate (RC) it does ocntain Gnome 2.5 which is the beta version for the pending release of Gnome 2.6

Re:Gnome needs an install program

[StoneTable]

or Debian, and apt-get update. Whatever your distribution of choice is, there is likely an easy way to upgrade. emerge, apt-get, yum, up2date, red-carpet, etc, etc, etc.

Performance?

[Moderation abuser]

No mention?

Not important?

Preliminary (and subjective) testing indicates that it isn't good when compared to the competition; CDE, GnuStep and having just loaded the current KDE, it looks like that is faster as well. Testing commonly used stuff; Menu operations and such over a LAN.

Bugger... Anyone know of a platform I can build an objective test suite on, for the various competing GUIs rather than relying on a stopwatch? I've found lots of Java specific and Web specific stuff...

One of the benefits of Unix I suppose. On Windows you get Windows and so have nothing to compare with.

Re:Performance?

[FooBarWidget]

Nautilus is noticably faster. Much faster. Heck, it's so fast that it isn't even funny anymore. Windows appear instantanously. It's faster than Konqueror or even Windows Explorer. :/

Nautilus

[iantri]

Excellent.. I firmly believe that the Mac OS 9 Finder is the best file manager in existance.. nothing else even comes close. The speed and ease with which you can organize files is amazing.

Nice to see this interface ("spatial whatever") being put to proper use outside of the Mac.

Nautilus is looking very Mac-like.

[s3nns]

Since switching to OS X, the spatial Finder is the only thing I've found myself missing from the Classic OS. Although OS X's Finder is sucking less and less with each revision, I still don't think it comes anywhere near the usability of the old Finder. (YMMV, of course. Old habits die hard.)

Nautilus seems to get it incredibly right, though. Although I've yet to use it for myself, Nautilus seems to immitate all the right things from the spatial Finder of old. (I haven't actually used Gnome since version 1.4, but I'm tempted to take another look.)

Kudos to the Gnome team, it's looking better and better with each release.

What's with the spatial desktop???

[Mjlner]

Seriously though... It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous: sure, it's nice for newbies to copy ten, twenty, maybe even fifty or so files, but it doesn't scale. It simply isn't practical for large amounts of files, which Apple noticed in time for OSX. Besides, had the Gnome team read "About face", they would know that UI design isn't all about catering for newbies.

I just don't get the Gnome devs somtimes

[bogie]

First off for a minor update it seems totally nuts to jump to a completely different paradigm for file management. Its just wrong throwing this out to users who are used to the other way of handling files for years. This should have been done at 3.0, not at 2.6. Second, the old behavior should STILL be default. The spatial setting should be secondary but let the user know he/she can try it. You don't just switch the way things have been in such a major way with no transition period. That's the thing about Gnome they seem to just make major changes to the way you interact with your PC between releases without any notice.

Another example that comes to mind is the way they up and switched the "Yes" "No" "Cancel" dialog out of the blue. Right now the way Gnome does it is just bass ackwards to the way 95% of the world is used to. Sure I'm used to it now, but any Windows or KDE user who tries out Gnome will find themselves clicking on the wrong button because Gnome has it backwards. That's what happened to me after getting used to the old Gnome way.

The people in charge at Gnome just don't seem to want to ever settle down and let people get comfortable with the way they interact with the OS. Next release the File Selector will probably be further modified and you'll have to relearn they yet again. It just seems that there is all of this talk about Gnome and their superior HIG methods yet the things that shouldn't be changing get changed with every release. Pick a file selector, pick a file manager setup, pick a file confirmation dialog and stick with it, Forever. Stop changing the basic ways in which we interact with the OS with every release.

Re:I just don't get the Gnome devs somtimes

[FooBarWidget]

The right-to-left order is used to MacOS X. As everybody knows, everybody on Slashdot worships MacOS X, and always praise it for being the most userfriendly OS ever.

That aside, GNOME is actively moving away from the "Cancel/No/Yes" button order. They've been doing that for years now if you still haven't noticed. :/
Instead, buttons now have explicit action verbs, like "Cancel, Don't Save, Save", just like in the much-praised MacOS X.

"but any Windows or KDE user who tries out Gnome will find themselves clicking on the wrong button because Gnome has it backwards."

Which further proves that "Yes/No" is braindead and should be replaced by action verbs.

As good as MAC OS X?

[Garg]

"GNOME is turning into something that is really pleasant to use," he [de Icaza] said. "I can happily say that GNOME 2.6 is up to the level of MAC OS X usability."

Suuuuuuurrre it is. And I've got a bridge to sell you cheap.

Don't get me wrong; I hope he's correct. If so, Linux will really start to make some serious inroads on the desktop. But unless 2.6 is really a quantum leap, I don't think it's true.

Mac's are still the all-time usability champs. You can take people who are deathly afraid of computers and they can use a Mac after a short while. So I'll believe it when I see it.

Garg

Re:"simpler interface" but at what cost ?

[dalutong]

preferences->input box->"nick completion suffix"

you don't have to click anything. you can just stick that suffix in and pow! works better than before!

Slashdotters just can't understand Gnome

[ericdfields]

The majority of the posts I'm seeing that are 'anti-gnome' stem from the sheer fact that all of you out there are more than just computer users; you are programmers, devleopers, engineers, students, enthusiests, etc. Gnome is not directly targeted toward you.

The Gnome Desktop is very forward looking, as what it does is based on the assumption that Linux On The Desktop will be truely realized one day, and it is preparing to meet the needs of those future (read: not yet existing) Linux users. That isn't to say that Gnome can't be used by any contemporary Linux user with an advanced computer knowledge, it's just not made tailored to you guys. Play around with it. Get to know it a bit more. Then customize to you're liking. Gnome can work however you want it to. That's one of the more beautiful aspects of it.

As for the so-called lack of intuitiveness, this is just plain false. Gnome is as intuitive as a never-used-a-computer computer user can experience (without violating any patents!). Beacuse realistically, the _user_ needs only their home directory with a few sub directories (Documents, Pictures, Music, Movies, etc.). You don't need more than a window or two to manage them. That aforementioned Linux _user_ of the future will appreciate how easy it is to drag and drop between these folders in multiple windows. For the rest of you, it's your duty to discover that parent folder widget as well as the "Browse Folder" option in the right-click menu (i think that's where it is).

In reality, the future linux user (and really all users) will only need to access files as items in a niche program like Rhythmbox or OpenOffice/AbiWord which specifically deal with a particular document type.

I agree that maybe nautilus-cd-burner doesn't jive well anymore. Something along the lines of Mac OS X's 'Burn to CD' radioactive icon is needed somewhere, or something. Thse sorts of things are minor, however, since the Gnome desktop is still not in its future where Linux is mainstream, they still have time to figure out how to manage this issue. In the meantime, chill out, or invest time in compiling k3b.

Slashdot seems to be full of impulsive radicals who vehemently stick to their OS/DE/Apps of choice, and are quick to insult anyone or anything else that's not their favorite. It's a strange sort of application bigotry. Of course, ignorance plays no part in bigotry...

Hear, Hear!

[Senjutsu]

I think this is great news, as I'll finally have a file management program that works the way *I* want it to work. I'm really surprised at the amount of hate this is getting; you can just turn the option off if you don't like it, people.

Prior to this it too often seemed like all the serious file managment options boiled down to: "You can have a file manager that works however you want, as long as it's some minor variation on Windows' browser metaphor".

Choice is a good thing.

Misconceptions about GConf

[TrixX]

Unlike the windows registry, each GConf app includes the schema with the keys it uses, including its type and documentation. If that key does not exists, it means it's not supported by your currently installed version of nautilus.

If it does exists, selecting it at gconf-editor will allow you to see it's value, type, and documentation.