Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Ars Technica Looks At GNOME 2.6 [updated]

Posted by timothy on from the standing-in-the-garden-with-a-gun dept.

The Original Yama writes "Ars Technica takes a look inside the GNOME 2.6 Desktop & Developer Platform, due for release any minute now. It builds upon an earlier review of the GNOME 2.5 development series and their own examination of GNOME 2.4." darthcamaro writes "internetnews.com is running a story about the release of GNOME 2.6 today. They actually got a hold of Miguel de Icaza who had some real interesting stuff to say about it and the Linux Desktop in general. 'de Icaza told internetnews.com that a simpler interface has been the goal of GNOME since at least version 2.0.'" Update: 03/31 21:59 GMT by T : sn0wman3030 was one of many submitters to link to the GNOME 2.6 start page, including links to screenshots, documentation, and source downloads.

75 of 336 comments (clear)

  1. Spatial Nautilus by ultrabot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Incidentally, I'm testing it out as we speak. The Spatial Nautilus is very very annoying - it's much like the default Windows behaviour of popping up zillions of windows that you always have to turn off every time you reinstall Windows.

    Yes, I'm going to go back to kde 3.2.1 Not because of the spatial nautilus that I can disable, but because of the missing "column list" viewing mode in Nautilus. I'm the kind of guy that wants to see as much stuff as possible w/ one glance, without needing to focus my eyes too much.

    --
    Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    1. Re:Spatial Nautilus by functor · · Score: 4, Informative

      O_o

      View menu -> View as List.

      Resize window as needed.

      Oh, look, it's a detailed columnized view.

    2. Re:Spatial Nautilus by linolium · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've never tried it, but I can't see why they would do it... I really hated it when Windows used that spatial thing. But, you know, I think the Gnome team would have done a bunch of research before they changed something as significant as this, so I don't think I have to worry about it being unefficient or anything. It's just getting used to it that will be a problem. ;)

    3. Re:Spatial Nautilus by ultrabot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh, look, it's a detailed columnized view.

      It's not the same thing. I don't want to see the details, I want to see lots of items in a small space.

      Zooming out doesn't do the trick either, because then the file names are under the icons, not right of the icons like in KDE column list mode. If the icon is just left of the file name, you can cram more objects in the same space.

      --
      Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    4. Re:Spatial Nautilus by Shillo · · Score: 4, Informative

      > The Spatial Nautilus is very very annoying - it's much like the default Windows behaviour of popping up zillions of windows that you always have to turn off every time you reinstall Windows.

      Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

      --

      --
      I refuse to use .sig
    5. Re:Spatial Nautilus by Figaro · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh...for that you go to the "File Management" preferences and set "Text Beside Icons".

      You could also turn on "Compact Layout", but that's pretty ugly.

      --
      :wq
    6. Re:Spatial Nautilus by horza · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why not use ROX? It works equally well under KDE and Gnome, maximises use of screen estate, automatically switches to small icons at a configurable point, and one click switches between icon and detailed list view. It's also blindingly fast. Seriously, try it.

      Phillip.

      --
      Property for sale in Nice, France
    7. Re:Spatial Nautilus by drivers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

      I was disgusted when I read that in the article. That is rediculous. Expecting users to get used to using an alternate button just for their app... and if you happen to be thinking about the task at hand instead of the UI you'll end up making mode mistakes. Who let this through? Aren't there UI standards in projects like these?

    8. Re:Spatial Nautilus by ultrabot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Double-middle-click (or double-right-click, I'm not sure) on a directory closes the current window and pops the new one. This de-annoyifies Nautilus quite a bit. :)

      Sounds reasonable if you are using a mouse. I like to navigate w/ keyboard - what's the tactic there?

      --
      Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    9. Re:Spatial Nautilus by ultrabot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sounds reasonable if you are using a mouse. I like to navigate w/ keyboard - what's the tactic there?

      Whoops, apparently there is C-S-w to do this. Not the easiest possible combo.

      Too bad it only seems to kill parent folders, not all the folders.

      --
      Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    10. Re:Spatial Nautilus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      run:
      gconf-editor

      goto /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser

      enable this option

      "If set to true, then all Nautilus windows will be browser windows. This is how Nautilus used to behave before version 2.6, and some people prefer this behavior. "

      you get the old nautilus back by default :)

    11. Re:Spatial Nautilus by hattig · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It is more like the classic AmigaOS (From Workbench 1.0 in 1985 to present) behaviour, which has always been a spatial filesystem view.

      Spatial does not mean "open folders in new window" - it has that per-window location, size, view mode, etc aspect to it as well. AmigaOS also let you locate Icons within each window where you wanted and then snapshot their locations along with the window, so still more advanced, but maybe Gnome will get there 20 years afterwards ...

      Now it only needs an option for the default action when double clicking (Either: "Open new window" or "Open new window and close parent") so my weaker middle button doesn't die too soon. Because of the latter you need an "Open Parent Window" button on the UI, although the popup on the bottom left seems to suffice it isn't exactly obvious.

      Still, it is looking like a nice clean desktop now. I wonder what would happen if KDE put some effort into making their system clean and simple?

    12. Re:Spatial Nautilus by vandemar · · Score: 2, Funny
      Sounds reasonable if you are using a mouse. I like to navigate w/ keyboard - what's the tactic there?

      xterm + bash

      works for me :)

    13. Re:Spatial Nautilus by superjaded · · Score: 2
      Expecting users to get used to using an alternate button just for their app...
      How's that any different from learning the commands on vi? or the keystrokes of emacs? or the middle button opening a new tab that was pretty much only in Mozilla (and maybe Opera) back in the day?

      I've effectively "taught" myself to middle click on links in only a few days when I started liking the tabbed browsing of Mozilla. Of course, when I go in IE every once in a while I'll vainly attempt to middle click on a link thinking I'm still using Epiphany or another tabbed-able browser.

      Besides, as has been said multiple times whenever there's a slashdot article, there's a gconf key that let's the user default to the old browser-type view. That makes the "having to learn an alternate button just for their app" point moot.

      And it's a double middle click, not a double right click. Right click brings up a context menu like it would in any other program.
    14. Re:Spatial Nautilus by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful
      It's not aimed at you, and you can turn it off - that is to say, you understand the system enough to (a) be able to turn it off and (b) to see no disadvantage in doing so.

      Most people have difficulty understanding the file system and how to find their information. I'm constantly amazed at how many people, for instance, do not even realise their files are laid out in a hierarchy on their systems (usually finding out that they've had their system set up for them by a "helpful" "expert" who's turned on browser mode.)

      A spacial navigator is one of the few widely used systems that makes file system navigation intuitive. There are several reasons for this.

      To begin with, it is immediately obvious that the system is hierarchical. This is not the case with the "browser" metaphor unless "browser" is combined with something else such as Window's File Manager/Explorer tree views on the left. A directory contains other directories (or folders contain other folders), they're not "links".

      Secondly it helps with memory. Open a folder and it's where you left it. The icons are where you put them. You remember details like that. It's always easy to find the file you want if you know it's on the bottom left, or top right. You remember instinctively that the folder you just opened is the right one because it appears where you left it. A "browser" environment doesn't do that, you end up traversing through multiple directories that all look the same, and you need to do a fair bit of reading before you know where you are.

      The major reason "experts" see it as a problem is because it tends to result in quite a few windows being open. This, really, is pretty trivial compared to the benefits for an inexperienced user. Additionally, better systems make it easy to manage those windows. In Windows, for instance, you can shift-click the close button on a directory window, and it and all the parents will close. Unfortunately this hasn't been replicated elsewhere.

      OS/2 used to have this nice system where opening a drive would open a window that represented all the directories on the drive, in a sort of tree view. You could then open up branches of the tree to find the directory you want, and open that window directly.

      Macintosh has a neat feature where if you're dragging files around, while you're still holding them you can hover over folders and they'll temporarily open, so you can move them without opening any additional windows.

      It sounds to me for the most part a good thing that Nautilus has a spacial mode and that that mode is default. What's needed now is:

      1. The "experts" need to understand the reasons for it rather than the kneejerk reactions we've seen here.
      2. It obviously needs tuning. Apple, IBM, and Microsoft have all come up with sensible optimizations to reduce the "lots of windows" burden.
      3. Improvements in GTK should be considered so that screen space is used more efficiently. More intuitive and automatic workspace management would help (such as the Amiga's launching of apps on new workspaces), the option of top-of-screen menus (which aids muscle memory too) would also help.
      It's a good thing. I'm glad they've done it. For once, GNOME is getting ready for the desktop.

      Next stop: File metadata?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    15. Re:Spatial Nautilus by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'm in the camp that says this kind of stuff is bad. IMO, the whole reason computers exist is because so many real objects suck. If physical folders and files had the properties we needed, then we wouldn't need to take so much effort to implement them in computers.

      Invariably, my physical desk gets stacked deep with huge piles of papers and other miscellaneous stuff. This sucks because I can't find what I need amongst all of the clutter. My opinion is that this "spatial navigation", or popping up dozens of windows or whatever, is just emulating this undesirable clutter on the computer.

      The computer is able to manage navigation very neatly with features such as the back-arrow dropdown list in file managers and browsers. If such a feature were available in the real world, my physical desktop would always be neat and I'd save gobs of time. (Hmm, maybe I should try installing a cafeteria dish stack holder in my desk...)

      I don't agree that always trying to emulate the limitations of the real world is a good thing just because the limitations of the real world are more "intuitive".

    16. Re:Spatial Nautilus by peter_gzowski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It sounds pretty annoying from the article. The dude basically says, "it's this new way of file browsing, where you have just have to get used to double clicking the middle mouse, and then figure out how to go back up the hierarchy, and then hit Ctrl-L if you want to navigate anywhere quickly". Um, yeah, and how is this better than a hierarchical view along the left hand side, with the contents of the selected directory in the right, and a toolbar that auto-completes along the top (i.e. what konqueror defaults to)? It has window memory? Great, that totally makes up for the hours of frustration I would spend learning this great new way of file-browsing.

      Do you know what file-browsing needs that it doesn't have? A connected command prompt. That's it. I know I can bring up a command prompt in Konqueror. What I want is for that command prompt to follow the actions I take when I click on gui directories, and for the gui to follow the actions I take at the command prompt. This, for me, would achieve file-browsing nirvana.

      --
      "Now gluttony and exploitation serves eight!" - TV's Frank
    17. Re:Spatial Nautilus by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      There is one big flaw with ROX.

      It only supports unicode, and since I use ISO-8859-15, the filenames are a mess.

      If ROX would just support other charsets than UTF-8, I (and many others) would be very happy.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    18. Re:Spatial Nautilus by pyros · · Score: 2, Interesting
      here's a gconf key that let's the user default to the old browser-type view

      I believe my last test install of Fedora Core 2 had an option in the Desktop Preferences -> File Manager application. Anyone know if that was an upstream change? Or are non-Fedora users going to have to use gconf?

      And it's a double middle click,

      Hopefully the Single/Double click option in the same Preferences application applies to the middle-click as well.

    19. Re:Spatial Nautilus by ZarKov · · Score: 2, Informative

      Shift is the modifier for "close current window behind me". So Shift-double-click and Shift-Alt-down open the selected folder and close the current window, and Shift-Alt-up opens the parent folder and closes the current window.

    20. Re:Spatial Nautilus by someonehasmyname · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Do you know what file-browsing needs that it doesn't have? A connected command prompt.

      PathFinder for OS X does that nicely.

      --
      Common sense is not so common.
    21. Re:Spatial Nautilus by Ctrl-Z · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, double-middle-click is really easy on a scroll wheel. :-P

      --
      www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
    22. Re:Spatial Nautilus by wowbagger · · Score: 2, Informative

      First of all, this preference is not there by default. GCONF, much like Window's RegEdit, requires you to know the type of a key if you need to create it.

      So if /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser does not exist, you have no idea if it should be a boolean, an int, a string, or what.

      Second of all, in nautilus-2.5.6-1 this does not work. I've tried - at least, it does not work if the key is a bool. I have not had the patience to try all possible combinations of type and value.

      --
      www.eFax.com are spammers
  2. Re:USB by altp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    USB support is done via the drivers and kernel not Gnome, GTK, KDE, QT or any other Desktop environment ortoolkit .

  3. I Like Gnome by Goo.cc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am a Mac OS X user and I have to say that I think that the UI of Gnome is appealing. If I was still using NetBSD, I would probably run it. (Hell, maybe I'll install YellowDog Linux and give it a try.)

    1. Re:I Like Gnome by bsharitt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've always found tthe Gnome UI(in the 2.x series) to be quite clean and professional, and it happens that I'm a Mac user too. KDE just seems to be trying to be Windows way too much, although it is improving too.

      (btw- why is the parent a troll? He's just complementing to DE the article is about)

    2. Re:I Like Gnome by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      to me...KDE while having a lot of features and tweeakables...is way to messy. Gnome on the other hand has decided to go down the road of OS X with an HIG and simpler is better and integration is paramount(and by integration I mean the tools as part of the Desktop environment, not necessarily a modular design like Kparts)

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  4. Re:Someone explain this to me, please. by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doing a search for technica reveals that slashdot links to that site frequently, yet in terms of content they deliver the same kind of news

    Slashdot doesn't create content, but just links to articles. Slashdot is a portal; its only content are the user comments. Ars does great work and their articles are their content. Their stuff is definitely "News For Nerds. Stuff That Matters."

  5. Looks like a Mac by bwindle2 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Does abody else think the screen shots look an aweful lot like Classic Mac OS?

  6. Will 2.6 make Sarge? by bjarvis354 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am excited about the prospect of GNOME 2.6 making its way into Debian Sarge. with gnome 2.6 could be a really powerful desktop for more than a few years...Which is probably how long it will take Debian to release again...And I am sure if 2.6 made it to testing, it would push back Sarge's release date.

    1. Re:Will 2.6 make Sarge? by gid · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's already been said that 2.6 will likely not make it into Sarge.

      Personally I hate it when Debian prepares for releases, it means I have to wait until the release is made until I get new software in sid again. :(

  7. As a KDE user.... by armando_wall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'll give Gnome 2.6 a try. I find it more appealing as its team releases more versions. Its GTK library is one of my favorites to develop with. But I always got a "something is missing" impression with it (the desktop).

    Besides, I know KDE is free software, but I think Gnome is "more free" for all platforms to use (ducks).

    1. Re:As a KDE user.... by FooBarWidget · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Huh? Where do you see Ximian actively bashing KDE?
      I see more people bashing GNOME, or accusing GNOME of bashing KDE even when it isn't true.

  8. What about by big_groo · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Dropline?

    Does anyone have any news on this?

  9. Re:USB by functor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look for things like hotplug, HAL Project, the D-BUS Project, the kernel events layer and other components of Project Utopia to get you things like automagic USB device identification, driver loading and GUI events.

    Hopefully we'll see something in GNOME 2.8/2.10/3.0 that'll use this stuff.

    (See http://www.freedesktop.org; lots of cool stuff going on behind the scenes.)

    See http://tech9.net/rml/talks/rml_fosdem_2004.sxi for more info.

  10. spatial metaphor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The "spatial metaphor" sounds pretty lame.

    Looks like someone was trying too hard to do something "revolutionary".

    Wow, it remembers the last folder you where in! So does the file browser on freaking xmms.

    Everytime you click a folder it opens a new window? That sucks! Ya it can be avoided with a middle click but why do that in the first place, since everyone is obviously just going to use middle click. I wouldn't say that's a bug but it certainly isn't a "feature" either.

    1. Re:spatial metaphor? by i_really_dont_care · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, exactly. I use Gnome myself, but that's the thing happening when you let coders do interface decisions. You usually end up with things like this "spatial view" in Nautilus or, say, the cluttered interface of Gimp. Everyone will complain what an utter bullshit this is, yet the people actually coding it will insist that it actually improves usability, despite the fact that no one wants it like this (other than a handful people, but those are probably the some that also find editing sendmail.cf by hand more intuitive than using some configuration UI). Also, they say, it does work: just double click the middle mouse button. Middle mouse button, my ass! The end argument will always be, that it's free software, it doesn't cost something, and one could fork it if one really needed the feature so badly, besides, be nice to us, we're doing this in our spare time, case closed.

      There's a reason why companies do usability studies rather than asking their coders what could be "cool" or "intuitive". Sometimes things like Clippy will result, but most of the time, it prevents stuff like "spatial views" to happen.

  11. Speed of 2.6??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wish he would have commented on the speed of 2.6, rather than just talked about what looked pretty or not.

  12. Oh god... by bicho · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... I don like Gnome that much anymore.
    Besides the panel and the fact it uses gtk, I disagree with a lot of things, like absurdly minimalist configuration options AND documentation AND a regedit-like nightmerish hell with also minimalist documentation.

    Anybody has successfully compiled e17 ? (yes. I am aware its not supposed to be usable/compilable yet)
    I have been waiting for it a looong time, and it seems there is always wan problem or another.

    I remember I compiled once its file system when in e15 or e16 something, and It was really nice.... but haven been able to compile e17 ever.
    Now, that is something I really want to see...

    --

    errera hunamum ets
    1. Re:Oh god... by sploxx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ACK. I'm still using gnome, but that "features are bad" attitude of the developers lets me consider switching back to KDE more and more. I hope they won't make the same mistake...

    2. Re:Oh god... by jjhlk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's wrong with Gnome's "regedit"? Would you prefer a text file with pretty much the same layout (one option per line) but where options are missing and you have to read the documentation to find out if they even exist? It is Ok to me.

  13. "simpler interface" but at what cost ? by phoxix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I could to totally wrong on this, but from what I've seen great features are being removed from really cool apps in this absurd strive for a "simpler interface"

    Case in point:

    Xchat used to have this GUI option called "Old Nick Completion" (Its like zsh's tab completion, but for IRC) But now it doesn't. The code for the function is still there, but the GUI option is not. No offense to the xchat guys, but this easily robs people of a great IRC great experience.

    For proof of what I'm talking about:

    a) look at this patch: Xchat Old Nick Completion Patch

    B) the Mandrake Xchat package ships with the above patch

    C) download the Xchat source code, and take a gander. Then notice how your own Xchat installation is missing this great feature

    Lets not dumb down GREAT SOFTWARE like Xchat!

    Sunny Dubey

    1. Re:"simpler interface" but at what cost ? by dalutong · · Score: 4, Informative

      preferences->input box->"nick completion suffix"

      you don't have to click anything. you can just stick that suffix in and pow! works better than before!

      --

      What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
  14. Re:I'm sticking with KDE, thanks by Deusy · · Score: 4, Informative

    until gnome comes up with an integrated all-in-one development IDE ala' kdevelop, I'm not using it.

    You haven't looked hard.

    What about Anjuta, or MonoDevelop, combined with Glade?

    Well, that, and because gnome is slow as ass compared to kde.

    Unqualified, unsubstantiated, stupid as ass FUD.

    --

    Free Gamer - Free games list and commentary

  15. Re:Someone explain this to me, please. by use_compress · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The difference between ./ and Technica is that slashdot can bring down Technica whenever it wants.

  16. Re:Gnome needs an install program by matqua · · Score: 2, Informative

    Thats why you use Gentoo, 9/10's of the time you can simply go "emerge gnome" and it will take care of everything.

  17. You're right. by FreeLinux · · Score: 4, Informative

    Installing Gnome 2.6 on your Red Hat 9.0 will "ruin" all the Red Hat stuff, in the sense of setting everything to Gnome defaults rather than Red Hat modified defaults. A better option for you would likely be to wait a couple of months for Gnome 2.6 to be integrated into Fedora and then upgrade your installation to Fedora.

    If however you are really keen you could try the Fedora Core 2 RC2 release. Though it is only a relase candidate (RC) it does ocntain Gnome 2.5 which is the beta version for the pending release of Gnome 2.6

  18. Re:Gnome needs an install program by StoneTable · · Score: 4, Insightful

    or Debian, and apt-get update. Whatever your distribution of choice is, there is likely an easy way to upgrade. emerge, apt-get, yum, up2date, red-carpet, etc, etc, etc.

  19. +1, informative by ultrabot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Oh...for that you go to the "File Management" preferences and set "Text Beside Icons".

    You could also turn on "Compact Layout", but that's pretty ugly.

    Thanks for the tip, I feel much more at home already :-). Another view mode would have been more intuitive, but what the heck.

    Now, I might even be giving that spatial thing another shot...

    --
    Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
    1. Re:+1, informative by Brandybuck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Another view mode would have been more intuitive, but what the heck.

      While another view mode would have been more intuitive, it would not have followed the Gnome philosophy of a more intuitive interface. Now isn't that intuitive?

      Seriously, when a desktop starts making things harder to use in an effort to make them easier, there's a serious disconnect.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  20. Re:I'm sticking with KDE, thanks by bonch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    KDevelop runs on either.

    KDE is much more lagged than GNOME. Personally I don't like the fact that it takes seconds to open a Home folder. Remind me again why they integrated the Internet and file browsers into one program? Is it because Windows 98 did it?

  21. Performance? by Moderation+abuser · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No mention?

    Not important?

    Preliminary (and subjective) testing indicates that it isn't good when compared to the competition; CDE, GnuStep and having just loaded the current KDE, it looks like that is faster as well. Testing commonly used stuff; Menu operations and such over a LAN.

    Bugger... Anyone know of a platform I can build an objective test suite on, for the various competing GUIs rather than relying on a stopwatch? I've found lots of Java specific and Web specific stuff...

    One of the benefits of Unix I suppose. On Windows you get Windows and so have nothing to compare with.

    --
    Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
    1. Re:Performance? by FooBarWidget · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nautilus is noticably faster. Much faster. Heck, it's so fast that it isn't even funny anymore. Windows appear instantanously. It's faster than Konqueror or even Windows Explorer. :/

  22. Nautilus by iantri · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Excellent.. I firmly believe that the Mac OS 9 Finder is the best file manager in existance.. nothing else even comes close. The speed and ease with which you can organize files is amazing.

    Nice to see this interface ("spatial whatever") being put to proper use outside of the Mac.

  23. I love GNOME's timed releases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having a new version of GNOME every 6 months strikes me a perfect compromise between adding new features and improving exisitng architecture. The bottom line is that these last few releases of GNOME have felt consistently polished.

    So far, I love using the latest 2.6 (ok, strictly speaking: 2.5) version. Even sweeter, the 2.8 version is already promising to be a significant improvement with new applications and better infrastructure!

    Thanks and great job GNOME developers and testers!

  24. Nautilus is looking very Mac-like. by s3nns · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Since switching to OS X, the spatial Finder is the only thing I've found myself missing from the Classic OS. Although OS X's Finder is sucking less and less with each revision, I still don't think it comes anywhere near the usability of the old Finder. (YMMV, of course. Old habits die hard.)

    Nautilus seems to get it incredibly right, though. Although I've yet to use it for myself, Nautilus seems to immitate all the right things from the spatial Finder of old. (I haven't actually used Gnome since version 1.4, but I'm tempted to take another look.)

    Kudos to the Gnome team, it's looking better and better with each release.

    1. Re:Nautilus is looking very Mac-like. by s3nns · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, OS X's Finder is steadily getting better. 10.0/10.1 was weak, 10.2 was an improvement, and 10.3 is pretty usable. It really pales in comparison to the software it replaced, though, and Panther's half-assed "spatial Finder" is a pretty weak imitation. (Hopefully Nautilus does a better job.)

  25. What's with the spatial desktop??? by Mjlner · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously though... It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous: sure, it's nice for newbies to copy ten, twenty, maybe even fifty or so files, but it doesn't scale. It simply isn't practical for large amounts of files, which Apple noticed in time for OSX. Besides, had the Gnome team read "About face", they would know that UI design isn't all about catering for newbies.

    --
    Lemon curry???
    1. Re:What's with the spatial desktop??? by DrWhizBang · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's been tried on both the Mac and Windows and the conclusion has been almost unanimous

      Whose conclusion has been almost unanimous? You never asked me.
      Please don't call the MS's lame-asses attempt at copying the Mac interface aka Windows 95 "spatial". It is not. In fact, I had trouble swtiching from Win 3.1 to Win95 because MS screwed things up by taking a crufty filesystem, tacking on a couple of layers of recursive abstraction, and then removing the File Manager and replacing it with explorer, which couldn't do either spatial or browser correctly.

      The Mac always did this correctly, making the spatial metaphor work because it was consistent (until OS X).

      Browser based file navigation is OK as long as it is consistent, but spatial has the advantage of making the filesystem easier to understand. You complain about scalability, but did you use Mac OS 9, where you could "dock" windows as tabs to the bottom of the screen, and navigate using "spring-loaded" folders? I miss that every time I need to use a computer. I was never more efficient at managing my files than I was in those days :-(

      The challenge that the gnomers face is using a spatial view on a much more complex filesystem. Hopefully, they pull this off - I can't wait to try the new nautilus to see if they have.

      --
      Schrodinger's cat is either dead or really pissed off...
  26. Re:Followup question by Queuetue · · Score: 2, Informative

    Going from rh (7.2-9.0) to fc1 is just an apt-get dist-upgrade away.

    Here's instructions to do it with yum, I did it just this week with apt (faster, in my opinion.) You should not have to reinstall anything (as long as you stick to rpms), and your home directory will be completely left alone, for the most part.

    Upgrading from RedHat 8/9 to Fedora Core 1

    Also #fedora on freenode is your friend.

  27. I just don't get the Gnome devs somtimes by bogie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First off for a minor update it seems totally nuts to jump to a completely different paradigm for file management. Its just wrong throwing this out to users who are used to the other way of handling files for years. This should have been done at 3.0, not at 2.6. Second, the old behavior should STILL be default. The spatial setting should be secondary but let the user know he/she can try it. You don't just switch the way things have been in such a major way with no transition period. That's the thing about Gnome they seem to just make major changes to the way you interact with your PC between releases without any notice.

    Another example that comes to mind is the way they up and switched the "Yes" "No" "Cancel" dialog out of the blue. Right now the way Gnome does it is just bass ackwards to the way 95% of the world is used to. Sure I'm used to it now, but any Windows or KDE user who tries out Gnome will find themselves clicking on the wrong button because Gnome has it backwards. That's what happened to me after getting used to the old Gnome way.

    The people in charge at Gnome just don't seem to want to ever settle down and let people get comfortable with the way they interact with the OS. Next release the File Selector will probably be further modified and you'll have to relearn they yet again. It just seems that there is all of this talk about Gnome and their superior HIG methods yet the things that shouldn't be changing get changed with every release. Pick a file selector, pick a file manager setup, pick a file confirmation dialog and stick with it, Forever. Stop changing the basic ways in which we interact with the OS with every release.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    1. Re:I just don't get the Gnome devs somtimes by FooBarWidget · · Score: 5, Informative

      The right-to-left order is used to MacOS X. As everybody knows, everybody on Slashdot worships MacOS X, and always praise it for being the most userfriendly OS ever.

      That aside, GNOME is actively moving away from the "Cancel/No/Yes" button order. They've been doing that for years now if you still haven't noticed. :/
      Instead, buttons now have explicit action verbs, like "Cancel, Don't Save, Save", just like in the much-praised MacOS X.

      "but any Windows or KDE user who tries out Gnome will find themselves clicking on the wrong button because Gnome has it backwards."

      Which further proves that "Yes/No" is braindead and should be replaced by action verbs.

  28. Re:Oh yea. by Speare · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Choice is fine for larger and more personal things, such as a few styles for laying out your information, or whether you want cargo space or sport performance out of your vehicle.

    Choice becomes a barrier to entry when you can't stick to a consistent set of basic interface standards, such as what the right mouse button should do to most visual elements, and where the turn signals and brake petals are positioned.

    --
    [ .sig file not found ]
  29. As good as MAC OS X? by Garg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "GNOME is turning into something that is really pleasant to use," he [de Icaza] said. "I can happily say that GNOME 2.6 is up to the level of MAC OS X usability."

    Suuuuuuurrre it is. And I've got a bridge to sell you cheap.

    Don't get me wrong; I hope he's correct. If so, Linux will really start to make some serious inroads on the desktop. But unless 2.6 is really a quantum leap, I don't think it's true.

    Mac's are still the all-time usability champs. You can take people who are deathly afraid of computers and they can use a Mac after a short while. So I'll believe it when I see it.

    Garg

    --
    Garg
    Alumnus, Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters
  30. Re:Linux Predictions. by sn0wman3030 · · Score: 2, Funny

    1% of the posts will offer statistics about the rest of the posts.

    --
    Life is offtopic.
  31. Slashdotters just can't understand Gnome by ericdfields · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The majority of the posts I'm seeing that are 'anti-gnome' stem from the sheer fact that all of you out there are more than just computer users; you are programmers, devleopers, engineers, students, enthusiests, etc. Gnome is not directly targeted toward you.

    The Gnome Desktop is very forward looking, as what it does is based on the assumption that Linux On The Desktop will be truely realized one day, and it is preparing to meet the needs of those future (read: not yet existing) Linux users. That isn't to say that Gnome can't be used by any contemporary Linux user with an advanced computer knowledge, it's just not made tailored to you guys. Play around with it. Get to know it a bit more. Then customize to you're liking. Gnome can work however you want it to. That's one of the more beautiful aspects of it.

    As for the so-called lack of intuitiveness, this is just plain false. Gnome is as intuitive as a never-used-a-computer computer user can experience (without violating any patents!). Beacuse realistically, the _user_ needs only their home directory with a few sub directories (Documents, Pictures, Music, Movies, etc.). You don't need more than a window or two to manage them. That aforementioned Linux _user_ of the future will appreciate how easy it is to drag and drop between these folders in multiple windows. For the rest of you, it's your duty to discover that parent folder widget as well as the "Browse Folder" option in the right-click menu (i think that's where it is).

    In reality, the future linux user (and really all users) will only need to access files as items in a niche program like Rhythmbox or OpenOffice/AbiWord which specifically deal with a particular document type.

    I agree that maybe nautilus-cd-burner doesn't jive well anymore. Something along the lines of Mac OS X's 'Burn to CD' radioactive icon is needed somewhere, or something. Thse sorts of things are minor, however, since the Gnome desktop is still not in its future where Linux is mainstream, they still have time to figure out how to manage this issue. In the meantime, chill out, or invest time in compiling k3b.

    Slashdot seems to be full of impulsive radicals who vehemently stick to their OS/DE/Apps of choice, and are quick to insult anyone or anything else that's not their favorite. It's a strange sort of application bigotry. Of course, ignorance plays no part in bigotry...

    --
    eric http://www.ericdfields.com/
  32. Re:Oh yea. by LMCBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Everybody" did not say that choice is bad. Some people prefer simplicity over choice, others prefer the opposite. Amazing, I know.

    --
    Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
  33. parent is wrong by phoxix · · Score: 2, Informative

    preferences->input box->"nick completion suffix

    Is not the same at nick completion. That only adds whatever you desire to the end of of a completed /nick. (And thanks to some odd Xchat bug, it only works with a single char, though some of the code clearly supports using more than a single char.)

    Sunny Dubey

  34. Hear, Hear! by Senjutsu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think this is great news, as I'll finally have a file management program that works the way *I* want it to work. I'm really surprised at the amount of hate this is getting; you can just turn the option off if you don't like it, people.

    Prior to this it too often seemed like all the serious file managment options boiled down to: "You can have a file manager that works however you want, as long as it's some minor variation on Windows' browser metaphor".

    Choice is a good thing.

  35. Re:The greatest feature in KDE by Nodatadj · · Score: 2, Informative

    Alt-left click moves the window for me in gnome
    alt-middle click lets you resize it
    alt-right click brings up the window menu.

    This is using the metacity that comes with gnome 2.6

  36. GnomeMac, KDEWin by mst76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Although it isn't completely clear cut, it seems that KDE takes a lot of inspiration from Windows Explorer (yes I know it does a lot more), while Gnome seems more like MacOS Finder (but isn't as good yet). I guess the majority of computer users (including the /. crowd) comes from a Windows background, which may explain why they feel more at home in KDE than Gnome.

  37. This widget was initially hard to find.. by hungfarlow · · Score: 2, Funny

    so we're not going to tell you where it is!

    --
    Penguins are so sensitive to my needs - Lyle Lovett
  38. Re:Oh yea. by MostlyHarmless · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apparently, sometimes choice is good, and sometimes choice is bad. Imagine that. (I like having the choice of ketchup or mustard, but I would prefer the former to be red and the latter to be green.)

    In other news, the Slashdot Borg Entity has dissolved itself after two members expressed different opinions on an issue.

    --
    Friends don't let friends misuse the subjunctive.
  39. Misconceptions about GConf by TrixX · · Score: 3, Informative

    Unlike the windows registry, each GConf app includes the schema with the keys it uses, including its type and documentation. If that key does not exists, it means it's not supported by your currently installed version of nautilus.

    If it does exists, selecting it at gconf-editor will allow you to see it's value, type, and documentation.

  40. GnomeVFS sounds awesome by the_truk_stop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm really looking forward to this GnomeVFS abstraction layer while saving and opening. What I've read (without having yet compiled it for Gentoo) has already gotten me into some fun conversations with my Linux-using friends:

    Allan: "Whoa, whoa, Gnome's getting _really_ smart!"
    Me: "No, it's getting really STUPID. It only understands opening and saving.

    Gnome: "FTP? Yeah, I'm not sure what that is, but I'd sure like to save this document right now to this location.
    GnomeVFS: "Sure thing." *** 1337 under-cover action ***
    Gnome: "Oh, you can do that for me? Cool!"

    - Kurt