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Reviewers Pile On World Of Warcraft Beta

Posted by simoniker on from the best-game-evah dept.

Thanks to GameSpy for its 'Pile On!' feature discussing Beta impressions so far on Blizzard's long-awaited MMO title, World Of Warcraft. Reactions range from the effusive ("I'm more convinced than ever that this game may finally be the first truly mass-market MMO") through the delighted ("I'm... completely in love with World of Warcraft"), to the ecstatic ("World of Warcraft delivers just what people are expecting: a tight, fun MMOG from a trusted developer.") Elsewhere, a WorldOfWarcraft.com forum discussion has a Blizzard representative mentioning release estimates of early this summer are likely wrong: "Definitely not July. As you know, we never set release dates, but you can expect the beta to run for another 5+ months." But, more importantly, does anyone _not_ like World Of Warcraft?

104 comments

  1. I don't by sinergy · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I think there are some definite balance issues, in particular with the alliance classes.

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    ...
    1. Re:I don't by mog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Insightful? The game is in beta phase. One of the main purposes of beta is to balance. Now admittedly, Blizzard has a history of having balance issues in the release version of its games, but that remains to be seen for World of Warcraft.

    2. Re:I don't by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, given that the alliance classes are the only ones available at the moment, 6 alliance classes are also available to the Horde, and the game is still in _beta_, I'm ok with there being balance issues.

    3. Re:I don't by Rallion · · Score: 1

      Can you name an RPG (any type with actual distinct classes) that IS balanced?

      While in beta stage, preferably, though I'll take a release version as well.

    4. Re:I don't by Maglos · · Score: 1, Troll

      Considering that the game is still in beta, I say you sinergy, must be a moron.

      I think a better question is, how could the game be better? For me, click and destroy gameplay is vary tired. Any game based on a reward system that has little to do with reflexes must be based on intellagent choices, not simply doing what I am told. Given the same amount of hours I should have a stronger charator then an eleven year old kid. Otherwise my charactor is completely devalued. I'm sure WoW has allot of inovative variations on the style, but still, I think I would loose interest in the game within a month.

    5. Re:I don't by sinergy · · Score: 1

      Ultima Online was very balanced in its beta. Too bad it had stability issues back then. Dark Sun online was pretty well balanced also, but sadly quite hackable.

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      ...
    6. Re:I don't by sinergy · · Score: 0, Redundant

      I'm a moron for saying it has balance issues in beta?

      I've been around for far too long playing these types of games to not see that there are these issues.

      Also, please don't use the "word" allot when calling somebody a moron.

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      ...
    7. Re:I don't by Maglos · · Score: 0

      no not that there say it, saying "I don't" in response to where you like the game, and stating balance issues, that are never intended to be final in beta as your reason. Blizzard allways messes with stuff drasticaly during its betas. To try struff out.

    8. Re:I don't by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I can't stand the thought of tens of thousands of Starcraft players sharing the server with me.

      I R KILLD ELF KEKEKEKKE

      Uh... no thanks, Blizzard.

      --
      Comment of the year
    9. Re:I don't by Tobias+Luetke · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think you rather mean that blizzard has a history for developing the hardest to balance games on the market and then managing the impossible.

      I don't know if you were in the War3 beta test but it was just stunning to read those patch notes. Every patch someone found a overpowering strategy and "cheesed" it to death, in the next patch there would be a seemingly unrelated change to a random different unit and people would bitch that blizzard didn't address the issue xyz. Yet people noticed that they now have an effective counter vs the cheesed strategy.

      Another great example were the NightElf ancients ( their buildings can uproot and and become units) the top players in the community said that Night elfs needed something else becuase this is not really an advantage. Yet a year after the release of the game Night elf players started to use these ancients as their main units so much that blizzard had to actually make them a wee bit weaker in a later patch.
      I've never seen a company which is a year ahead of its customers best strategys.

      Today the games Starcraf ( 3 races ) and Warcraft ( 4 races ) are amazingly balanced. Apart from C&C generals they are also the only RTS gamaes which offer fundamentally different races.

    10. Re:I don't by Godeke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not even "old school" pen and paper RPGs are balanced when you look at distinct classes. Frankly, the issue of balance is usually an overreaction by the players. Having coded for Muds for many years, everyone wants the advantages of their class *plus* what everyone else has.

      Running a mud for some time, our technique for determining balance was pretty simple: capture the "time between levels" of the players. Simply log the play time between each level for each player, and number of player deaths during that time. Sort them out by level achived, race and class. A little bit of statistics will show any unbalanced classes pretty quickly. It will also show your better players: they will level any class faster than average.

      After doing this for a few years, we could calculate the level rates like clockwork. Yet, even with this "level playing field" the whining continued. My final realization: there is a level of "background whining" which reflects upon the players personality, not upon your game. Learn what this level is, and you only have to worry when the whining breaks that level.

      --
      Sig under construction since 1998.
    11. Re:I don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say the "races" in Giants: Citizen Kabuto are fundamentally different, though the balance may not be as precise as with the games you cite. Highly underrated game though.

    12. Re:I don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      UO balanced at launch? What?!

      Everyone used Halberds (best weapon by far)
      Magic users could smite anyone with a single spell while remaining hidden or kill them with fire walls and not suffer any loss of alignment.

      Yeah balanced my ass.

    13. Re:I don't by llefler · · Score: 0, Troll

      Such bizarre moderation. Would someone like to explain how such a simple opinion gets moderated a Troll? And just yesterday I had mod points....

      --
      It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit. -- Harry Truman
    14. Re:I don't by Rallion · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, no, those are called Koreans. It's easy to confuse them with Starcraft players; in fact several newer dictionaries list them as synonyms.

    15. Re:I don't by balzi · · Score: 1

      Warlords Battlecry had 9 races. broken into 3 elves, 3 civilised and 3 other. Each group was FUNDAMENTALLY different, with more but slighter differences between each race within a group.

      W:BC 2 had 12 races. better retract dude.

      --
      "I split coffee all over my wife's nightie .... serves me right for wearing it" -Speelberg, no 'Spar
    16. Re:I don't by sinergy · · Score: 1

      Maces and fencing weapons were far better than halberds then.

      Just because everyone used them didn't mean they were better.

      People could smite others with a single spell because nobody had the magic resistance skill.

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      ...
    17. Re:I don't by TJWitz · · Score: 1

      I'm glad that blizzard takes the time to fix their incremental errors, but don't try to tell me that they are managing the impossible. The only reason there are so many fixes and so many patches is that their games (SC/WC3) are fundamentally flawed and unbalanced. The same goes for the Diablo series - buggy/exploitable as hell, constantly rebalanced/patched...

      Don't forget that it took Blizzard until SC to actually realize that different races didn't have to be clones of each other, with two full iterations (WC/WC2) of first-hand experience and years of observing other companies attempt it first.

      Blizzard doesn't bother to balance the game; they simply patch any 'overpowered' strategy to death, rinse, repeat.

    18. Re:I don't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A:Simple! any idiot can get to be a mod. Actually all you have to do to get mod points here is; Bash MS and the Xbox in nonsensical apocaliptic context then proceed to talk about the gamecube As "the console for the intelligent man" dont forget to link the obligated PA penny arcade reference (ignoring they have mentioned several times they have no console preference) mention several times theres nothing wrong for a grown man to use a game that looks, feels and moves like a kindergarden wall since this actually reflects a strong personality and a large penis.

      Please mention they are not in fact part of the system but rebels of the digital era and that Mario/ Zelda adventure s/n 1890108 and Pokemon s/n 77990907 are experiences close to having sex with a playmate

      Also inflict that the entire reason for the ps2 success is because teens and CS l33ts play GTA3 because is "cool to shoot hookers" and they do this 24 hours a day in a daily basis.

      Oh and for bonus points convince everyone Retro games of the 4-8 bit era where gogol exponentially better than "just graphics crap" today, after all what could be better than expending 120,000 continuing hours (getting arthritis in the process) moving a white dot in a black screen so it could shot another dot at an undescirnable figure on top of it? and repeating the exact same action about 1 billion times at inhuman (faulty designed) speeds which produce burning in pain wrists and thumbs sored to the bare bone? certainly thats how heaven must be alike.

  2. Why some people turn away by Pizzop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the largest point that seems to stick against people who I game with is that there doesn't seem to be any PVP. I can see it being implemented, but it's just not the competitive game that most people I game with want. Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

    --
    How to Speak Leet
    1. Re:Why some people turn away by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

      Unfortunately, that is very correct. Blizzard is not writing an MMO for a niche market - they are writing one for the masses, and if that means they focus on the not-so-hardcore MMO population, so be it.

    2. Re:Why some people turn away by Colazar · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Exactly. My Shadowbane guild, in looking for a game to migrate to, has eliminated WoW from consideration for just that reason.

      Of course, we play Shadowbane, so that puts us out of the mainstream already.

      --
      He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
    3. Re:Why some people turn away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      As an ex-DAoC player, I have to say that despite the obvious shortcomings of that game, their conceptualization (not necessarily implementation) of the RvR system was ingenious. It is hard for me to play other MMOs primarily because I am constantly finding myself wishing for something akin to the Realm v. Realm component with which I had such a blast on Dark Age.

    4. Re:Why some people turn away by JavaLord · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One of the largest point that seems to stick against people who I game with is that there doesn't seem to be any PVP. I can see it being implemented, but it's just not the competitive game that most people I game with want. Of course, the people I game with are in no case any type of standard or majority, so our opinions don't really count.

      You and your friends might not be the standard majority of people playing MMO's now, but the majority of regular video game players would want PvP in an MMO if they were to play them. MMO's are a niche market right now, filled with players who would rather socialize and play PvE than PvP. The vast majority of online games, and games in general have player vs player modes rather than 2 player co-op.

      The first MMO that crosses over into "mainstream" will have PvP.

    5. Re:Why some people turn away by I+am+Kobayashi · · Score: 1

      I totally agree. DAOC was my first MMORPG, and so I had nothing to base it against. But now that I have tried basically every MMORPG that is on the market, I really do appreciate the concept of the RvR in DAOC. It is truly brilliant (even if seemingly obvious to a non-MMORPG player)

      That said, the reason I am no longer playing DAOC is because the game so poorly implemented that concept (and had other serious issues from the dev team)

      I don't see why WoW with an alliance and horde can't do this same thing? Have an RvR zone? It seems perfectly set up for such an endeavor. And given Blizzard's track record, they would likely implement it much better than DAOC did.

      --
      --Kobayashi--
    6. Re:Why some people turn away by darkwing_bmf · · Score: 1

      Just load any modern FPS. Its got all the PvP you want without the annoying monthly fee. And they are usually balanced ... how many PvP MM0RPGs can you say that about?

  3. The Game's Possible Weakness by mog · · Score: 1

    I'm among the flocks that have been following this game for every nugget of news I can get about it. I wasn't fortune enough to have the opportunity to beta test the game (yet), so I have no hands-on impressions apart from the barebones alpha. That said, based upon the legions of reviews that have been presented on the game in the beta state, I am under the impression that the low-end game is rock-solid. It leaves me with an undying curiosity to see what Blizzard does with the high-end game. Have they put even more of the Bliz-Polish into the upper levels, or has it been largely ignored in favor of making the starting levels perfect? As far as I know, the beta is still locked to a max level of 30. Does this mean that the high-end content is not yet there, or do they just not want to blow their wad during beta?

    I have ultimate faith that Blizzard will pull it off, and make the game a blast to play from 1 to max. But .. as far as I can tell, the high end game appears to be the spot where if there is a weakness with the game, it will surely manifest. As indicated by the editor, the low end game has received entirely positive reviews.

    1. Re:The Game's Possible Weakness by ADRA · · Score: 1

      I dunno Blizzard's beta schedule, but if they don't release high level content at all, how the hell can they tell how people play that content. For all we know, there could be serious balance, gameplay, etc.. issues that fall apart at this point.

      That said, I SERIOUSLY doubt that they won't allow players to play high-level content in beta. The anticipation is great and all, but not allowing anything would hurt their bottom line soon enough.

      --
      Bye!
    2. Re:The Game's Possible Weakness by cgenman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most high-level content isn't created until near the end of the development cycle. Until you're relatively certain the graphics format, sound format, gameplay ideas, and every thing else are panning out, why fill out content that you may have to redo? Better to focus on your engine and gameplay early on, while filling out the world with Blizzard production level art and design once the technical side is stable. They probably have a few of the God monsters artwork and quests complete (though not balanced), but it is doubtful they are just holding back on the universe. It's Beta because it is not done, and except for bug fixes Art and Level Designs are the last to go in.

      You can be pretty sure that the level 65 monster with the big fangs and the ability to throw things will pan out correctly if the level 16 monster with the hunchback and the ability to throw things is working well.

      Besides, what do you think they will be doing during the next six months? Strictly playbalance?

      --
      The ______ Agenda
    3. Re:The Game's Possible Weakness by weaklink · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Devs have commented that they will be raising the level cap as they complete enough areas/mobs/quests for that level to be fun. If I remember correctly they said they didn't have quite enough dungeons previously to put the cap up.

      They plan to raise the level cap to 35 for the next push. With 5 months to go, I'm sure they will have plenty of time to raise the cap to the same level they plan on having it set for retail.

    4. Re:The Game's Possible Weakness by Rallion · · Score: 1

      Also, if they'd just delayed the beta stage till the content was finished, how long would various people just end up sitting on their asses with no work to do? Core coders just sitting there bored waiting for the content developers to finish before the beta starts, and then the entire content staff just tweaking difficulty afterwards? I know the dev team's organization probably isn't quite that divided, but the problem would still exist.

    5. Re:The Game's Possible Weakness by Maserati · · Score: 1

      They'll get to the 31-60 range soon enough. Just remember this, the lower-level game has to be good or you'll lose people before they even get to the high-end stuff. At this point thye could bump it 5 points a month and still manage a release this year.

      Would January be a good time to launch an MMO title ? I'd think putting out a new title just as people finish their Christmas presents is probably a good idea. EVE's launch was interrupted by the holidays and I've seen other projects (game and otherwise) get disrupted by the holidays. Aiming for late-January to early February would let the staff take their holidays and still have a few weeks before it goes gold. From a project management standpoint it'd work nicely. Same goes for the team members.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
  4. WOW - All I can say is wow ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Well I've been playing this for months. (Yes, I was lucky enough to be an Alpha tester too).
    And I've played no other game since I started.

    This game is really good. There are still balance issues (but they are not too bad), a couple of classes need buffing up a bit (mage especially).

    Hours of my life have been sucked into this game. It's so much fun, I would recomend it to anyone.

    Tradeskills are fun, I feel they need expanding a little, but we still are in beta, and changes are happening all the time.

    The economy seems to work (unlike SWG), there are money sinks as well as money generators. There has been no inflation (yet). Of course I haven't hit lvl 30 (max) with any of my chars yet, so these guys may have a different take on it.

    Two thumbs up. Recommended. Be prepared to lose all your spare time, and half your night to this game - every day.

    1. Re:WOW - All I can say is wow ! by Rallion · · Score: 1

      I have faith, understand, I'm not criticizing a game I haven't played, that I expect to be amazing at release. But I don't think you can say much about the economy right now. It may work, I'm not at all saying it won't, but the fact that it's held up under testing conditions is barely evidence at all that it will work once the real game goes live. Scale is what kills the economies, and time.

      Again, I have faith in Blizzard in the end, it seems they've even done a little bit of repair to the Diablo II 'economy' since the last patch, and that was never meant to be sustainable as far as I can tell.

      Anyway...I hate all alpha testers. Damn you.

  5. Cripes by Boing · · Score: 5, Funny
    the first truly mass-market MMO

    Seriously, guys, can we stop appending to acronyms?

    RPG was okay. MMORPG was obscure, but acceptable. But what, now we have MMMMORPG?

    1. Re:Cripes by cgenman · · Score: 1

      I'm personally waiting for the Old Man Murray version. His strong opinions and insights could lead to the greatest GPROMMMMMMORPG of all time.

      --
      The ______ Agenda
  6. Where's OMM? by jvmatthe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone need to kick Old Man Murray out of retirement. The video game world needs that hot, steaming cup of bile to wake it up from its gross, self-congratulatory stupor.

    Then we'd know if World of Warcraft was really worth its salt. And be entertained at the same time.

    --
    Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
  7. On the topic of balance... by Enrico+Pulatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to "balance" the game. Back in the day, if you chose to play a wizard in an RPG, you knew the road was gonna be tough, but you'd eventually get to throw fireballs. Nowadays, people complain day and night about the lack of balance in a game. Live isn't balanced, we're not all Zen masters, deal with it.

    1. Re:On the topic of balance... by (trb001) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, there's tough and then there's downright, no fun to play, bad ideas in character balance. The first rule of game making is that anything that makes the game unfun or unplayable shouldn't be added. If there's a long road to an eventual goal that makes that long road well worth it, that's okay. If it's just tough and long because the game is based on strength and leprechauns are just naturally weak (no +15 str Leprechaun Biosuits), that's an issue.

      Off the top of my head, because I'm playing it now, look at the necromancer in Diablo 2. He starts off bloody weak and stays that way most of the way through the game. But the ability to summon oodles and oodles of minions as his stats go up, and the ability for those minions to become serious badasses is pretty cool. So you have a long road of watching your back and being careful, with the reward of being able to clear rooms full of baddies easily. Maybe not the best example, but certainly in the ballpark.

      --trb

    2. Re:On the topic of balance... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what sux is paying 3 years for a game that is unbalanced, only to have it finally balanced out character-wise when people start getting tired of the game and income starts falling for the game's hosting company (ie everquest..I don't buy the fact that they have as many active subscribers as they claim..put up or shut-up I say..why did they start hiding their logged in numbers on the status screen?)

      You bust you ass with a messed up class, fight through all the crappiness, only to have someone start the same class 3 years later and have none of the problems you encountered..very retarded.

      everquest balancing was just plain crap for years, they never tried to seriously address it until recently. same thing goes for the 'experience'..it suddenly became much easier to experience as of late, a direct correlation to subscriber loss. I'd bet my dormant everquest account on it.

    3. Re:On the topic of balance... by Planesdragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I hope that Blizzard doesn't try to "balance" the game. ...

      The situation you described isn't unbalanced. It's just "time-balanced."

      "Game Balance" means "all of the players have roughly equal ammounts of fun." Usually, this translates to "all player choices mean roughly the same ammount of total 'power.'"

      Leaving MMORPGs and CRPGs aside, and getting back to pen & paper, imagine the game that doens't care about balance--five friends pick fighters, rogues, or wizards, which are all moderately balanced with each other, and then friend number six picks "uber cleric of d00m!", which lets him outclass everyone else.

      The game is unbalnaced, not because the cleric can do a lot or has the most power, but because it lets the player with the "uber cleric of d00m" do everything--and that means that he often will, meaning that he'll do more than anyone else--and he'll probably have more fun than anyone else.

    4. Re:On the topic of balance... by GreyWolf3000 · · Score: 1

      Diablo 2 has been out for years and they still haven't balanced it. Don't believe me? Just try and play through the game with an Assassin.

      --
      Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
  8. GameSpy going along with marketing hype? by Pluvius · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wow, I'm shocked. Sign me up for three copies!

    Rob

  9. I absolutely do not like it!!!! by Dutchmaan · · Score: 1

    ..well... uhh.. ergghh..fffffffffffffffinee.. YES! I LOVE IT! GIVE IT TO MEEEE!

  10. Re:I can think of one reason... by twbecker · · Score: 0

    Check the forums. There is someone who has purportedly got WoW running on linux under wine. It's even endorsed by Blizzard. With that said, endorsed does not mean supported, and they (blizz) maintain that it is an unsupported platform.

    --
    "The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
  11. a bit boring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    this game is a bit boring. not sure if it is my age, but I was amazed with Ultima Online, then astounded by Everquest when it arrived..but this one, just doesnt do it for me.

    I think MMORPG's peaked with Everquest. I hope I am wrong..but that is my thought on the matter.

    I've fallen back into the games like Quakeworld , ie battlefield 1942/vietnam, unreal. the ones that don't charge you monthly and don't punish you for that 'privelege' to pay.

  12. Re:I can think of one reason... by weaklink · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's a cut and paste of a post announcing a project to run WOW on Linux. It will be official, but officially unsupported.

    GadFly joined Blizzplanet as new Linux Community Leader staff member.

    He will develop a Linux community and will offer full support on how to play World of Warcraft under Linux. He has a fully playable version running on Wine.

    He will release the software, documentation and tutorial files soon. This Tech Support will be an ongoing service at Blizzplanet. Join our forums and the usergroup for future newsletters on the topic.

    The service is fully free.
    The Blizzplanet service to Linux users is not affiliated in any way with Blizzard.
    Gadfly was authorized to pursue a Wow on Linux
    development as an independent Tech support project for as long as it is a free service to the community. Blizzard will not offer Linux Tech Support. The service will only be supported by Gadfly and any future Linux Tech Support staff at Blizzplanet.com

    Gadfly will develop a shell allowing Linux machines to run purchased Blizzard software. This means every Linux user might possibly be able to buy and play Blizzard games. Again, Linux is an unsupported platform, and Blizzard will not offer Tech Support. This is an independent and initiative-driven project by Gadfly-- an IT Consultant which will be offered non-profit and free to any Linux user. This means you will not
    be forced to donate in order to acquire the service. As soon as the package is released
    we will need testers that can run Wow on Linux
    and Wine. The feedback will help develop a
    stable final product for the Retail version of
    World of Warcraft.

    This is a great achievement by the Linux/open source community and we thank Blizzard Entertaiment and
    its legal department.

  13. I don't like it by DaveJay · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I don't like the game. Too many trans fats.

  14. I hate it! by KDan · · Score: 1

    Cause I don't have the time to even think about playing it, much less buy it and play it when it comes out :-(

    Daniel

    --
    Carpe Diem
  15. I LOVE WOW! by Herkum01 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Who wouldn't love the Woman of Wrestling!

    1. Re:I LOVE WOW! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Straight men?

  16. Re:I can think of one reason... by wed128 · · Score: 1

    This is the first time i've seen this, and not to sound pessimistic, but running a program under WINE is a far cry from native support.

  17. As Statler and Waldorf would say... by Akki · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Booo!"
    "Booo!"
    "That was the worst thing I ever heard!"
    "It was terrible!"
    "Horrendous!"
    "Well, it wasn't that bad."
    "Oh, yeah?"
    "There were parts of it I liked."
    "Yeah I liked a lot of it."
    "Yeah it was good."
    "It was great!"
    "It's wonderful!"
    "Bravo!"
    "More!"
    "More!"
    "More!"
    "More!"

  18. Sorry... a quick correction. by weaklink · · Score: 2, Informative

    It may not be offically allowed. I'm a bit confused about that now, but there is indeed a project to run WOW on WINE. Here is another cut and paste or go read it yourself here:

    http://www.blizzplanet.com/forum211/viewtopic.ph p? p=1093#1093

    The Cut and paste:

    ** Blizzard Entertainment does not support Linux in any way, shape or form. This project has NOTHING to do with Blizzard Entertainment, they do not assit in this project, contribute, or provide any information to assit in the development of this project in any way. Blizzard does not condone running of thier products in a linux enviorment, and will not feel sorry for you if you mess up your chacters by doing so! If you run WoW under Linux, you do so at your own risk.**

    I'd like to welcome you to the Blizzplanet Linux community.

    I celebrated my 10th wedding anniversary this weekend, and had a great time.

    I will not be forking if I can help it. As anyone that has spent any amount of time in the Linux community knows, it is better to contribute to the whole, rather than build your own little hole.

    Here is where we are at right now:

    I am useing the CVS from WineHQ

    latest Binary here:
    http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/wine/win e-20040 309-1fc1winehq.i386.rpm?download

    Get the source here:

    http://www.winehq.com/site/cvs

    Note: Remember to check out the ENTIRE source tree, and as always, RTFM (this is what I am useing)

    If you need help, post here. Someone will help you.

    What works, what doesn't?

    In the Alpha, the game will launch, query the realme, login in, create chacters, retrive the chacter list, and enter the game world. IT is very unstable, and kicks one of several execptions. Alpha development is currently dead, since the beta is out, there is no reason I can see to continue this develpment path.

    In the beta:

    Launching the game useing the -uptodate switch kicks an execption, I'll post it later.

    Once I can launch the game properly with out all the hacks, I will be able to begin troubleshooting the execption in addition to my standard beta testing duties via Windows. (remember as a beta tester you are obligated to test the game under the supported OS's, NOT linux. Do not log any bugs you may find while running WoW via Wine, And never violate your terms of use!)

    That is about it. I also am going to start parellel testing the WineX builds from transgaming. I have downloaded the source, and will build it tonight. I will post the results here.

    Here are the details of the systems I am using:

    Intel P3 933 and 1.33 ghz
    512MB RAM
    Nvidia GeForce4 ti4600 128MB's in both running latest drivers.
    Fedora FC 1, current.
    SuSE Current distro

    Ok all. That is it for now... more later.

    Gadfly

  19. Re:I can think of one reason... by weaklink · · Score: 1

    I saw that post maybe a day or two ago on the offical beta forums.

    Yes it's not the same as a native client, but if it works well then I'll probrably be dumping windows completely. WOW and Ryzom are the only two things that have me hanging on.

  20. The flaws will not be in the game by SpittingTrashcan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Blizzard is very good at making games that are rock-solid, highly balanced, and immensely fun to play... alone. And the Beta is going to be a blast, at least at first, because everybody on it is overjoyed to be playing this lovely game with everyone else. Once the general public gets their hands on it, things may not be so pretty.

    How does Blizzard plan to handle griefing? Has anyone in the Beta tested the degree to which they can make other players miserable? This is where Old Man Murray's review of Asheron's Call was so helpful - it pointed out, with dramatic effectiveness, that it was quite possible to follow the rules of the game, not attack anyone, and still bug the hell out of other players. Until the general public - including the hackers, griefers, scammers, spammers, trolls, and general scum of the Internet - get in on this game, it won't be possible to truly evaluate the gameplay experience.

    1. Re:The flaws will not be in the game by Rallion · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, Blizzard's got a history of bitchslapping people who try to make their games less fun for others. They put it in their Terms of Use. Griefers in their RTS games get banned, and I doubt this will be much different.

      Still...yes, I hate people. Immensely.

  21. Five Months of Beta? by Tofino · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Five months of beta mean a first-day-of-retail populace that includes two groups. First, the lucky, small percentage of people who will proceed to form cliques and keep their super-secret-squirrel knowledge of the best places to hunt, trade recipes, etc. to themselves, gaining levels and wealth in a very short period of time. And the vast majority that will enter the game, see these people, see all the content being solved by them on day two, and give up.

    Happened to a lot of people when FFXI went live in NA. Several people from the Vault boards quit the game because they felt it was impossible to establish any sort of level playing field. Sure, not everyone is going to feel competetive, but it's like taking someone who's just learned to play chess, and throwing him in a tournament. That person's hopes are going to be crushed, and it's unlikely they're going to see the better players as something to strive towards.

    1. Re:Five Months of Beta? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'm sure they are going to do the same thing that most games do, when the beta is over all characters will get wiped and the beta testers will have to start from scratch like everyone else. the only advantage they will have is the fact that they know the best places to hunt.. but this is a blizzard game so i'm sure it won't matter much

    2. Re:Five Months of Beta? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, you do know the beta phase of a game is used to correct technical issues, test content, and fix (as best as you can) balancing issues, right?

      If it results in a smooth launch and happy playerbase, beta length be damned. WoW has been hailed as the fastest MMORPG to pick up, and you won't be on different worlds as those who were in beta - chances are you'll meet one in your first day, learn from them, or hunt together.

      Time put into a MMORPG affects gains. Not beta experience.

    3. Re:Five Months of Beta? by Maserati · · Score: 1

      That happened in EVE too. The groups formed during beta teamed up immediately after launch and never looked back. After a year it's turned into a very intense PvP game - I got ambushed and killed just for passing through someone's territory.

      PvP is much more fun for the hardcore player - they have the good stuff.

      --
      Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
    4. Re:Five Months of Beta? by jjhlk · · Score: 1

      Chess is more logarithmic than the MMORPG situation which is more linear. That is, it'll take a while to be competetive at chess, but then to get a little better will require much more work. But in the MMORPGs, it could be impossible to catch up to the higher players - even with exponential experience requirements - because in my experience (granted i was never very competetive) a level 41 could always defeat a level 40.

  22. Balance is not the problem. by johncheng · · Score: 0

    Unlike traditional RPGs where you feel like an important part to the story in the game. By nature of having thousands of other players in an MMORPG, the typical player are bound to feel average and an insignificant part in the game. While balance is necessary, it's just an illusion to help a player feel unique when he's just another average entity in the virtual world. The point at which a player realizes that is also when he gets bored of the game and closes account.

    MMORPG could do more to help a player feel unique and involved by reducing the emphasis on massively-multiplayer, and and take a more "design/play in your own dungeon" kind of approach.

  23. beta access? by drp · · Score: 1

    Is there any way to get into the beta? It seems that everybody except me has access to this game, and it's kind of nagging on me.

    Is it a small closed beta, or a large scale beta like Asheron's Call 2 had going?

    1. Re:beta access? by Lazyhound · · Score: 1

      Closed beta. Sign-ups ended ages ago.

    2. Re:beta access? by Rallion · · Score: 1

      It's pretty small now, all the people you see that are in on it are just the ones with the most to say. It will grow, in stages, but if you didn't participate in the sign-ups you'll have to wait for the huge fully open beta to play, unless I misunderstand the plan and you won't even get to play then.

      As of now, though, supposedly less than half the people actually playing the beta got their accounts by directly signing up. It's more people involved with fansites, alpha testers, and the like.

  24. Too much hype by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 1

    Nothing ever lives up to hype. While I'm sure the game is good, you *know* people will be dissapointed and whiny as soon as something starts to bother them.

    This is generally the 'movie sequal' theory, but it applies here too I think.

    --
    "I only speak the truth"
    Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    1. Re:Too much hype by Rallion · · Score: 1

      That's part of the reason Blizzard doesn't like releasing too much info ahead of time. Back with Diablo II, they announced a few possible features way before release, and they didn't get into the final game. I remember seeing plenty of people saying they would never play they game because of it.

    2. Re:Too much hype by 0x0d0a · · Score: 1

      Nothing ever lives up to hype.

      This is *especially* true in the case of Blizzard, which has an exceptional marketing engine.

      I remember them working on building up fervor about Starcraft. Not that Starcraft was a bad game, but they had a huge amount of misleading and exaggerated claims about the abilities of the engine.

      I don't see why anyone cares about a game like WoW before it comes out. Ignore it until the release, then read a review or two or take a look at the forums and think about whether you want it. Blizzard beta releases are more about hype than testing.

      --
      May we never see th
  25. Re:Balance is not the problem. by Rallion · · Score: 1

    Well, you can do the 'play in your own dungeon' thing to an extent, AFAIK. You just don't get to design it.

  26. No PVP a good thing? by AzraelKans · · Score: 1

    Is not that surprising that WOW is getting all thumbs up not only this comes from blizzard and we are talking about dedicated warcraft fans, these guys are playing for free! (drum roll! thank you! tip the waitress on the way out please!)
    Anyway jokes apart, is interesting that they are liking the game without PVP think about it, no PVP means no Player Killers, less vandalism and pillage, less laggy battles(since the CPU only has to conscern on monsters and their AI) and no abusing on the newbies(!!!) could this have to do with the good scores is receiving? I mean we are talking about a world where you can only team play with others,BUT not fight, not even if they are a supossed enemy race or people you just dont like. Maybe blizzard should check that out.

    Im not in yet, but is as good as they say I will get it as soon as I have a decent dsl line.

    --
    Go ahead MOD my day!
    More opinions here
  27. Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness by realdpk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Penny Arcade had a hint at a major weakness (in my eyes). I read it as them suggesting that they wanted to play with their girlfriend, but in order to do that they had to limit their own play, so she doesn't become a "support" character. (Site's down, else I'd grab an exact quote).

    That's one of the major failings of all MMOGs I've seen thus far, except perhaps UO. That real-life friends can have a lot of trouble trying to keep up, and once one falls behind, they are pretty much screwed unless they can play a lot of catch-up.

    I'm waiting for the day a game comes out that allows for players to take breaks/vacations/do real life stuff, and still be able to play with their friends. So far all they've done is make it very difficult. (I do have personal experience with this, not just blowing smoke)

    1. Re:Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness by Colazar · · Score: 2, Informative
      This is an area where Shadowbane does well. Leveling is so fast that this is not a problems at all. A dedicated player can hit the cap in a month. A casual player can hit it in 3 months, and be useful in the meantime.

      Of course, this is necessary, because it usually takes three tries to design a character that is any good...

      --
      He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
    2. Re:Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why i really like City of Heros, which allows the user to "sidekick" someone that is 5 or more levels lower than them. It raises the "sidekicks" attack level to 1 or 2 levels lower than the mentor. Thus allowing someone who is much higher level to still play with their low level friend

    3. Re:Penny Arcade hint at a major weakness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out Eve: The Second Genesis. Character development is time based only, so if you're taking a break, all you need to do is log on every few days to keeps skills training and your character doesn't fall behind at all. Hell, some advanced skills can take a good month to train, so you can take an extended vacation while they train. However, time off will not advance your finances.

      The downside to this is it is almost impossible to catch up. Theres limited ways to speed up skill training, and everyone does them, so if you're one month behind someone, you'll always be one month behind them. (But it's not nearly as gamebreaking as it can be for traditional MMO's)

  28. An Online game that allows breaks. by ssand · · Score: 1

    The Realm Online Realmserver.com Is fairly interesting for the people who don't have time for making commitments of long periods of times. Granted the graphics are a little shabby especially if you are not into 2d graphics, but it's pretty cheap. Plus it is one of the first MMORPGs ever, created by Sierra, and before UO.

    As for a game for the casual gamer. An online game is definately not the place. You cannot expect someone who can put in 5 hours a day in a game to be at the same level as someone who only has time for 5 hours a week.

    1. Re:An Online game that allows breaks. by realdpk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You misread me, or I wasn't clear. I don't expect to be at the same level. I'd like to be able to play with my friends, regardless of the level difference.

      I understand I won't be as effective. In most games, you can play alongside higher level players, but you won't get any experience or any loot. There's no incentive to play with your friends if they're way up there in levels.

      In some games, like FFXI, the "penalty" for having different levels is extreme once you get 3 or 4 levels out. You could play 4 hours a day, but if your friend plays 5, you won't be able to play alongside them (unless you don't mind letting the gap widen even further). I think that is the problem.

    2. Re:An Online game that allows breaks. by Rallion · · Score: 1

      In most games, you can play alongside higher level players, but you won't get any experience or any loot. There's no incentive to play with your friends if they're way up there in levels.

      This is very true in Diablo II, and with every second patch or so, it's gotten more so. Of course, practically nobody's aware of this at all...I love how a stupid person with good intentions sometimes refuses to believe that they aren't helping me a bit by bringing in their level 30 character to support my new level 2. Really. I adore it.

    3. Re:An Online game that allows breaks. by Trillian_1138 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I honestly can't remember if this was something I read in a preview somewhere, or in a "Some game should include this" rant somewhere. (I feel like it might have been the latter, and on Penny Arcade.)

      A nifty sollution to the problem of not being able to play with higher level friends would be the ability to do temporary apprenticship with higher lever characters. Say a level 10 hooks up with their friend, who has been playing longer and is a leve 30. The level 10 would get some sort of temporary stats and skills bumps, putting them to the equivilant of level (say) 20 or 25. Combined with a game written to allow characters within 5 or 10 level of each other to work effectively together, this would allow lower level characters to still play with higher level characters, and gain experience from it - suitably modified so they get a reasonable amount for a level 10 character and not a level 20 or 25 character.

      Thinking out lout now, the system could even be built so the level 10 character doesn't imediatly jump to a temporary level 25 upon apprenticing with their friend, but does it over the course of 5 or 10 minutes, and it can only be done (for example) 6 hours out of every 24. This allows friends to still play together for (what I think) is a very reasonable amount of time, but not abuse it by having tons of level 1s running around with level 99s.

      Just some thoughts. Sorry I don't know remember where the origonal idea came from, cuz it's not mine.

      -Trillian

  29. How to make time to play WoW by Rallion · · Score: 1

    Step 1: Stop posting on games.slashdot! ;)

    1. Re:How to make time to play WoW by KDan · · Score: 1

      I can do that at work. I think my boss would object to me playing WoW on my office computer during working hours though... :-P

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
  30. More interested in EQ2 myself by Fiz+Ocelot · · Score: 1

    Just today was a Press Release about voice overs in EQ2. The videos are great and I can see this being a main features in most mmos to come. Not to mention Everquest has been running strong for 5 years now so they are quite established and experianced. (Death system is much better than EQlive too imo, no xp loss)

  31. What makes you think... by freeBill · · Score: 1

    ...griefers couldn't get into the Beta?

    --
    Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
  32. Re:-1, DMCA-wielding jackbooted thugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lol. You must get far in life with bumper-sticker Ideology.

  33. Re:-1, DMCA-wielding jackbooted thugs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better bumper-sticker ideology than blind worship of an evil company simply because they can manufacture a game. And much more important than giving a shit what a pissant like you thinks.

  34. Re:I can think of one reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure it's endorsed by Blizzard. Until they decide it could be used to support "piracy" (a.k.a. subverting Blizzard's control of the "experience"). Then they sue the WINE developers.

  35. Re:I can think of one reason... by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

    Considering how Warcraft III runs _flawlessly_ under the latest Wine when using the secret OpenGL rendering switch (ie. -opengl command-line parameter), I for one don't worry much about the lack of a Linux client.

  36. One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by MachDelta · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...is that they build staircases to nowhere.
    This hit me hardest with Diablo 2 (+LOD). You start off, the game is great, everything is new and exciting, skills, equipment, quests... you're completely wowed by it all. You keep playing, and quests start to become rehashes of other quests (eg: Kill x, find y, bring item to z), but you keep playing because you're still leveling and finding new and exciting gear. And then, the magical night comes: You beat the game. Congrats! A winnar is yuo! ...and then what? In Diablo's case, you move on to Nightmare and Hell. The exact same game, only with tougher monsters and phatter lewt. You keep leveling and finding cool shit, so for a while its OK. But eventually you beat the game a second and third time. Then what? Keep looking for phatter lewt and more levels! So you start with the Meph runs and Pindle runs and Baal runs. Over and over and over, all in the search for more levels and the uberest gear in the land.
    I used to be mad into Diablo, always looking for the perfect character and the l33test equipment setup. And then one day I realized just what I was doing, and how pathetic it was. I'd willingly jumped off the campaign, the grand staircase, right into a pit of boring and stupid. Fortunatly for Blizzard, their druglike secret formula is frequently strong enough to keep players splashing around in a shithole post-game indefinitly. But eventually I looked around and realized where I was, what I was doing, and how Bliz had duped me into getting there. And I guarantee you I will not be going back.
    Which is why i'm concerned about WoW, and why I have yet to subscribe to a MMORPG. Now i'm sure Blizzard will craft a masterful MMORPG and a great story, and reviewers will shower the game with praise... but as long as Blizzard (and indeed, most MMORPGs) continue to neglect the giant question-mark that is the post-game, I won't willingly fork over ANY of my cash for their game(s). Bliz could create their best collection of quests yet, but as long as the game still remains a staircase to nowhere... i'm not climbing it. Sorry Bliz.

    1. Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by Thrikreen · · Score: 1
      You could say that about all MMORPGs. Which is why I'm sticking with NWN because it's not just about being a munchkin, there's more than just leveling up and getting loot.

      Then again, I've been spending more time creating for NWN than I have playing it.

    2. Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 4, Informative
      You seem to think that this "druglike secret formula" is unique to Blizzard. I got news for you, its not unique to Blizzard, its not unique to Verant, its not even unique to MMORPGs.

      I suggest you do a little reading on what a Skinner Box is. Here is a great essay which explains how MMORPGs are essentially giant skinner boxes.

      The trap you fell into is called psychological addiction, and it is quite vicious indeed. But what better way is there to ensure a continuous revenue stream from your customers.

      As with all things in life, these games are fine in moderation, but always be careful that you aren't getting TOO into it.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by jcoleman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Where does the staircase of other games end? Nirvana? Complete happiness? All-knowing-ness? Did Jesus come back to Earth when you finished Super Mario? Did fireworks go off when you beat Legend of Zelda? Was world peace achieved when you finished GTA3?

      Games are all about the fun you have while you're playing them. When they're not fun anymore, stop playing them and give them to me. :)

    4. Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by bugnuts · · Score: 1

      Interesting angle, but where are you supposed to go? You spent your $40 on a single-player game, played it for 100+ hours, hell maybe 200+. How much would you pay for 100 hours of entertainment if it were, say, MOVIES? Average of $8.50/movie, 100 minutes per movie... that's $510. Looks to me like Blizzard saved you at least $470.

      Now there's a huge difference between single-player games and MMO games. The distributor and publisher gets most of the money for the $40 cost, but the developer and infrastructure gets the monthly fee. That means they aren't going to write a game that gets "solved" after 20 or 100 hours of play. Rather, they want to foster continued play, where there really is no end of the game. Sony is particularly nasty/clever with this, developing "hooks" to keep people paying, even if they aren't playing, for fear of losing their house/loot/guild/etc.

      So, you would not like ANY mmorpg out there, because they are written to have no "post-game" (except for pk-based games, where you level up, then fight others -- e.g. shadowbane and swg).

      Learn to stick a fork in it and call it "done," and stop whining about how you only got 100 hours worth of entertainment for $40 instead of a lifetime. The post-game for single player games is called Real Life. Time for you to stop crying and join it.

    5. Re:One thing I hate about Blizzard games... by rpillala · · Score: 1

      Another poster is exactly right about games being a behavior mod designed to keep you at your computer. What's puzzling me is what you expected? What do you expect from a game after you finish playing it? Are there other games that have handled the postgame well? I'm pretty familiar with games but I don't know of any that continue to reward you after you've received all the awards in the game.

      I am, incidentally, considering WoW because I read somewhere at bliz that they're adding new content each month. If that's true, it would justify the monthly fee. Depending on the fee.

      Ravi
      --
      When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
  37. It appears a PVP beta server could be on it's way by weaklink · · Score: 2, Informative

    It isn't absolutely confirmed but since there community rep Kat likes to tease with her inside knowledge I would call it close to being "offical"

    Here's the cut and paste of the post:

    --
    We will have some special rule servers, but have not yet determined what ones we'll create.

    It's quite possible that our next beta server will be PvP.

    ~Kat :)

    --

    Go here to read the thread yourself:

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wo w- general&T=9560&P=1&ReplyCount=16#post9 560

  38. sorry... not used to Slash formating. by weaklink · · Score: 1

    This is the URL to the thread: Try this one

  39. One thing I love about Blizzard games... by shumway · · Score: 1

    Is that even after you've spent weeks and even months into beating the game over and over again, getting many many hours of entertainment from a measly ~$40 initial investment, and no further monthly fees for playing on their busy servers, you still enjoy it and want to keep playing.

    Fortunatly for Blizzard, their druglike secret formula is frequently strong enough to keep players splashing around in a shithole post-game indefinitly.

    You understand what "post-game" means, right?

    --
  40. Blizzard by Lando · · Score: 0, Troll

    Unfortunately with all the BS over Blizzard Corporate suing the open source community and their not producing products for Linux means that I will never see this game.

    Instead I am watching the founding members of blizzard north that formed their own company to see what they come up with...

    --
    /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    1. Re:Blizzard by betat · · Score: 1

      Wow...when did gaming get so political?

      I always thought games were for fun...

  41. After Star Wars Galaxies... by Doches · · Score: 1

    ...I'll play anything, and wait forever. Especially if it's by Blizzard!

  42. Screw World of Warcraft... by Snaller · · Score: 1

    ...give us Starcraft 2 !

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating