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On Videogames And Inherent Political Bias

An anonymous reader writes "An article for Reason Magazine, recently posted to their site, argues that games, unlike traditional media, are inherently biased - in favor of individual freedom - and that games might influence real-world political preferences." The author starts by arguing: "Video games are evolving into a grand anti-authoritarian laboratory", and concludes: "Computer games, as a class, do appear to favor civil and economic liberty... because of the same human tendencies that free players from domineering storylines and inflexible rules. Games naturally turn players against contrived limits and inconsistencies."

71 comments

  1. What?! by Neck_of_the_Woods · · Score: 2, Funny



    You mean Pking will become a Political Stance?

    --
    Neck_of_the_Woods
    #/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
    1. Re:What?! by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "You mean Pking will become a Political Stance?"

      Considering what happened 10 years ago in Rwanda and what may be happening right now in Sudan...

  2. Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Thinkit4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, isn't it clear enough that /.ers and other nerds are quite libertarian (a word the media hasn't even heard of).

    --
    -I am an elective eunuch.
    1. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by bluGill · · Score: 2, Offtopic

      No it is not clear. If anything /.ers are libertarians where something they enjoy is being infringed on, while very for regulations that affect others. Throw in a large amount of "Give everyone welfare, but don't make me pay for it." In other words just like everyone else in the world. Individuals of course run the whole spectrum of political opinion, and a few are even able to recognize the inconsistencies of their views.

      Last presidential election the Nadir supports got a lot of voice, then Gore people. There was a small minority of people talking about Browne (? wasn't he the libertarian candidate?) and seemingly less Bush fans. Nadir and Gore are not compatable with a libertarian viewpoint, (though some fans re unable to recognize this because they have a few libertarian tendencies that were masked. Bush pretended to represent a closer view, but I don't think anyone really believed it, he hasn't lived up to it.

    2. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by moof1138 · · Score: 1

      > (a word the media hasn't even heard of)

      That's not entirely true. I recall the news stories about that Libertarian guy from Montana who drank colloidal silver and turned blue.

      --

      Hyperbole is the worst thing ever.
    3. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Captain+Pedantic · · Score: 1

      If anything /.ers are libertarians where something they enjoy is being infringed on, while very for regulations that affect others.

      That makes them Republicans, not Libertarians.

      --

      None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
    4. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by syrinx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I used to think that /.ers were on the whole pretty libertarian.. I think /. might have been the first place I'd heard of the Libertarian movement.. but recently it seems that everyone on /. (or at least the vocal ones) are just plain left-liberal.

      Allergic reaction to Bush? Who knows.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    5. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Funny

      I always thought that that applied to Democrats.

      Oh, wait. Those are the same thing!

      Rob

    6. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by txviking · · Score: 1

      Maybe those categories don't fit anymore, and the representative democracy needs to be spiced up with some more direct influence.

    7. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      Hey I voted for candiate dubbed the smurf around the office, and I'd vote for him again if he ran for governer, anyone is better than the socialist Schweser, or either of the Republican candiates.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    8. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, they say that a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged. Maybe a liberal is a libertarian whose job has been off-shored.

    9. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 1

      The most unfourtunate part of that coverage is that they didn't stay around for more. I'd say he's one of the 'least' weird people in Montana.

      --
      Everything will be taken away from you.
    10. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or more likely a /.er is a liberal because they don't go outside often enough to be mugged.

    11. Re:Gamers are nerds are libertarians by Govt+Stooge · · Score: 2

      I believe a libertarian is a republican who smokes dope. Can't remember who this quote is from, but I love it.

      --
      "Honesty is the key to a relationship. If you can fake that, you're in." --Rich Jeni
  3. America.. by genrader · · Score: 1

    Only in America man...and maybe some other countries.

  4. But not so liberal as you'd think... by stienman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Games naturally turn players against contrived limits and inconsistencies.

    But they reenforce the idea that some limits need to be set and must be enforced. Take the current cheat vs anti-cheat wars, and the limits placed on all MMOGs.

    -Adam

    1. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by MMaestro · · Score: 3, Interesting
      But they reenforce the idea that some limits need to be set and must be enforced. Take the current cheat vs anti-cheat wars, and the limits placed on all MMOGs.

      True, but don't forget that these are GAMES. The moment you start putting even the smallest barrier (like a maximum altitude or a 'no you can't make a spell so powerful you kill half the world in one shot') people start bitching, whether is single-player, multiplayer, or a MMOG game.

      On top of that, theres no real direct method of punishing someone for breaking 'rules' except in MMOGs. Ban him? There are plenty of servers. Mute him? Again, there are other servers. Abuse him? AGAIN, other servers. We're not solving the problem, we're just shoving it under a carpet.

    2. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by ADRA · · Score: 1

      Give a person the right to speak, and they'll do it if you like it or not. I agree that not much is being done, but besides giving every person a personality profile before being allowed to play, there's nothing we can do in order to curb the abusers.

      If you think these people in games are any different then what they are in reality then you've probably been playing the games too long. There are always people bitching about what they don't have, don't like, don't stand. Why do you think they escaped the real world to begin with?

      --
      Bye!
    3. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 1
      True, but don't forget that these are GAMES. The moment you start putting even the smallest barrier (like a maximum altitude or a 'no you can't make a spell so powerful you kill half the world in one shot') people start bitching, whether is single-player, multiplayer, or a MMOG game.

      I think the best games allow you to do just about anything. But then you have to face the consequences. For example in the game Driver, you can speed. Which is fine, unless the cops see you do it; and then they lay chase.

      Now, that's fun. You're getting to break the law. And sometimes you get away with it; sometimes you don't.

      I missed that kind of stuff in GTA I-III. It didn't enforce the road laws. It made it *less* fun.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    4. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The moment you start putting even the smallest barrier (like a maximum altitude or a 'no you can't make a spell so powerful you kill half the world in one shot') people start bitching, whether is single-player, multiplayer, or a MMOG game.

      What are you talking about? All games have a maximum altitude, and it would be grossly unbalancing to allow spells so powerful that you kill half the world in one shot. Who would play on a PvP server like that?

      It's called "balancing" the game. Barriers like these are necessary to keep a game fun, and you're far more likely to hear people "bitching" if you don't straighten these problems out. MMPORPG's are full of items getting Nerfed, and while some people complain when their favorite weapon is weakened, it is usually player complaints that lead to the tweak in the first place.

      If you have ever played against a Glacier player in Killer Instinct, you'll know that without those so-called barriers against infinite damage, there isn't any gameplay.

      Of course, there are rules in multiplayer gaming. Real old-school Street Fighter players will pull their hands back from the controller and let you throw them if they accidentally throw you in a close-quarters fight. Well-behaved MMPORPG players will not steal your loot, despite it falling on the ground. And I've seen circumstances in FPS games where poorly behaved players will be repeatedly assassinated by their own team-mates, ruining their statistics and forcing them off the server. Still, most rules in social situations are not enforced at the end of a gun, and this holds true in gaming as well as life.

    5. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's called "balancing" the game. Barriers like these are necessary to keep a game fun

      Not exactly. A lot of people think that it would be more fun to allow some classes to be harder to play than others. You know, kind of like real life.

      Rob

    6. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MMO communities are VERY similar to real communities in respect to individual freedoms. Basically, your freedom ends where anothers freedoms begin, and vice versa. Unfortunately, the dividing line is VERY blurry, and there will always be people who will push the limits of their personal freedoms.

      Players think they should have the freedom to steal people loot, killsteal, etc because it's technically within the limits of the game, but those actions infringe on the rights of other players who are trying to legitimately play the game.

      Games (and societies) with no restrictions will only be possible when we can trust that EVERY member of the group will respect the rights of others and not abuse the freedoms granted to them.

    7. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by hak1du · · Score: 1

      Lack of regulation isn't "liberal", it's "libertarian". The rwo mean very different things.

    8. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by Zirtix · · Score: 1
      Do you mean 'harder to play' as in 'harder to use, but effective if used well', or as in 'harder to use, and genuinely crap'? There's a big difference.

      The latter is probably more like real life, but the former undoubtedly makes a better game. It's great to be owned by a skilled scout or pyro in team fortress (they've put in the time). But if there's a class no-one uses in normal play, then it seems a waste.

    9. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      It's called "balancing" the game. Barriers like these are necessary to keep a game fun, and you're far more likely to hear people "bitching" if you don't straighten these problems out.

      "Balancing" the game? In order to "balance" things in games, both sides would be restricted to the same type of rules, restriction, and objective. In otherwords, no diversity. For RTS games, that would mean having EVERYONE play only as one side, or in FPS games use only the default gun since it may be unfair to some players who spawned slightly farther away from the uber-gun.

      Gee wiz, by that logic we should only play sports games, since they're the only games that are "balanced."

    10. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by xtinct · · Score: 1

      holy shit! do you know what a "game" is?

      a game is *supposed* to be some kind of test of your skills as a player/team vs. another player/team -- be it physical skills or mental ability -- and see who's better. it also includes the requirement that the "test" is fair -- meaning it's balanced. every game up until video games has this requirement (chess, checkers, etc...).

      if this doesn't sound "fun" to you because you don't like to lose to superior players on an even playing field, maybe you shouldn't be playing games.

    11. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by MMaestro · · Score: 1
      if this doesn't sound "fun" to you because you don't like to lose to superior players on an even playing field, maybe you shouldn't be playing games.

      My point is that the playing field isn't fair at all. If I jump into a Quake 3 server with one guy camping the BFG spawn point and constantly spawn killing me from there, how is it fair that I have to use the machinegun (the default gun) against the BFG (the strongest gun in the game)? I go onto a Counter-Strike server and start with a bare $1000 cash. Great, I can buy Desert Eagle vs... AK-47s, M4 Carbines, and enough sniper rifles to halt an entire platoon. Real fair.

      every game up until video games has this requirement (chess, checkers, etc...).

      Yeah, and every game up until video games has always given both sides the same exact resources, advantages, disadvantages, and equipment. In otherwords, everything is symetrical and we should play Pong, since that is symetrical.

    12. Re:But not so liberal as you'd think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Balancing" the game? In order to "balance" things in games, both sides would be restricted to the same type of rules, restriction, and objective. In otherwords, no diversity. For RTS games, that would mean having EVERYONE play only as one side, or in FPS games use only the default gun since it may be unfair to some players who spawned slightly farther away from the uber-gun.

      Gee wiz, by that logic we should only play sports games, since they're the only games that are "balanced."


      Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with a perfect example of the logical fallacy of reductio ad absurdum. Hint: placing limits on the maximum damage a player can deal out does not logically require one to remove all but one type of weapon.

      "Balancing" in game terms does not mean, never has meant, and is never used by anyone with an ounce of sense to mean, making everyone equal. It means making sure that nobody has a stupidly unfair advantage. Please note that trotting out an example of an unbalanced game does not prove that balancing is meaningless.

      Nice troll, MMaestro.

  5. geez by black+mariah · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Computer games, as a class, do appear to favor civil and economic liberty... because of the same human tendencies that free players from domineering storylines and inflexible rules. Games naturally turn players against contrived limits and inconsistencies."

    Talk about reading into things that aren't there.

    Take a good game. Now take out all of the limits and inconsistencies and rules. What do you have? NOTHING. You have nothing. Those limits you overcome are what is FUN. That's the entire goal is to overcome those limits. They're trying to make some great existential point about videogames, but they're failing miserably.

    --
    'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
    1. Re:geez by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      "What do you have? NOTHING. You have nothing."

      Phyllis Weaver should have held on to the red snapper.

    2. Re:geez by You+Didn't+Spellchec · · Score: 0
      "Computer games, as a class, do appear to favor civil and economic liberty... because of the same human tendencies that free players from domineering storylines and inflexible rules. Games naturally turn players against contrived limits and inconsistencies."

      Talk about reading into things that aren't there.

      Take a good game. Now take out all of the limits and inconsistencies and rules. What do you have? NOTHING. You have nothing. Those limits you overcome are what is FUN. That's the entire goal is to overcome those limits. They're trying to make some great existential point about videogames, but they're failing miserably.

      Next time, try reading the things that are there. He didn't say anything about taking our "all of the limits and inconsistencies", he specifically said "contrived limits and inconsistencies".

      You'll find that you're a lot more successful at debates when you try to actually understand the point that the other side is making.

      (BTW: I think his argument is a load of shit, but it really chaps my ass to see someone railing so vigorously against a strawman.)

      (OBTW2: work on your grammar.)

      --
      Michael Moore is a
  6. Why? by bl4nk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What ever happened to video games being... video games. Since when did they start having some grand meaning or statement?
    Video games aren't "evolving" in to anything. I hardly believe that valve was thinking about civil and economic liberty when they started creating Half-Life 2. Now, if we were talking about Kingpin, I guess I could see that. Or maybe that game was just about being as bloody and violent as possible, as to attract more buyers.

    This is ridiculous. Let's not turn water in to wine here.

    1. Re:Why? by ADRA · · Score: 2

      Get me flamed for this,

      I concider Video games in the same general field of entertainment value. You have your movies that are pure tripe for the masses, neither innovative nor educational. Then you have your 'mature' movies that cater to those who really enjoy the art of film making etc.. Not to say they don't overlap, but they don't really overlap as much as one would hope.

      Apply the same for video games, but then realize that the niche video game industry doesn't materialize. Instead of young video gamers building emersive experimental games, they build second rate knock-off's of last generation games.

      I do believe that there are a few 'art house' video games in the world which have actually impacted the industry and our lives in general, but I think they're too few and far between to develop a following.

      --
      Bye!
    2. Re:Why? by ronfar · · Score: 1
      I hardly believe that valve was thinking about civil and economic liberty when they started creating Half-Life 2.
      Hmm, normally, I'd agree. But Half-Life has a very strong libertarian of the black helicopter, tin-foil hat variety type of story. (Incidentally, that is the libertarian point of view I'm normally accused of subscribing to. Truthfully, that pretty much is, except that I would add, "getting there, not there yet.") They didn't have to do the story that way, but they did.

      I think that it is a mistake to think that is the nature of games that makes gamers libertarian. Since games are under attack as being sinister, mind warping influences in our society, gamers see the ugly side of the authoritarian nature of the Establishment. This tends to make them Anti-Establishment to a degree, whic translates as libertarian in this case, "What, give those bozos more power? They think Doom caused Columbine, I wouldn't want to give them power over my local boy scout troop, let alone the Federal Government."

      You'll find something similar happen in any group that the Establishment attempts to marginalize. I would say that gaming only leads to mild libertarian influences, because gaming is a fairly mainstream hobby. Sometimes, they'll be an uptick though, look at California. "So, let me get this straight, Resevoir Dogs gets to stay out in the main rack with the rest of the DVDs, but Vice City goes behind the black curtain with Debbie Does Dallas. We've got morons in our legislature, I tell you."

      If one party would just be anti-video game scapegoating, you'd see this turn into Republican or Democratic bias, but it probably wouldn't be deciding factor except for a small minority.

      --
      All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
  7. hmm by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 1

    Much like the article, from a political magazine, is inherently biased?

    --
    "I only speak the truth"
    Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
  8. Sims... by thefirelane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because of the same human tendencies that free players from domineering storylines and inflexible rules. Games naturally turn players against contrived limits and inconsistencies.


    Of course the same argument could be made that games do not favor political/social liberty... Games like SimCity/warcraft show gamers how an extremely organized, well planned, and well led society can become greater than all others. Seeing how such societies flourish would naturally lead them to desire a similar intelligent overseer running the real world, with extreme authoritarian control to be able to 'do the right thing'.

    1. Re:Sims... by umofomia · · Score: 1
      Games like SimCity/warcraft show gamers how an extremely organized, well planned, and well led society can become greater than all others. Seeing how such societies flourish would naturally lead them to desire a similar intelligent overseer running the real world, with extreme authoritarian control to be able to 'do the right thing'.
      I'd be wary of an intelligent overseer who had the itch to press the tornado button every now and then.

      You can't reload real life...

  9. so way totally true by moof1138 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was just playing Super Monkey Ball 2, and it occurred to me that deregulation could make a smoother playing field that allows us to reach our goals with fewer obstacles. Super Monkey Ball 2 can be a profound metaphor for life on many levels, actually. I like to think that my time playing Super Monkey Ball 2 is really time spent in deep reflection on the more important truths in life.

    --

    Hyperbole is the worst thing ever.
  10. OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, I think we've determined that this article is bunk. Next!

  11. By population.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of the world does run that way.

  12. Not always by ADRA · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of my buddies loves linear final-fantasy type games because the storyline is highly linear. He hates open ended games. I know he's not the only one. Millions of people don't buy final fantasy, sports games, puzzlers, etc.. in order to experience unlimited control over their environments.

    Mind you, there are several genre's that do open the boundaries of control. Games come to mind: GTA-types, PC role players, MMO's.

    Others that stand in the middle are games that are emotionally expressive but lack any expansive imagination. FPS's, RTS's, and some adventure-type games fit into this mold. I find the mass-player base resides here simply because it fits in to the comnfortable medium between highly linear and tightly controlled advancement conditions.

    --
    Bye!
  13. Good article overall, but... by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They mention that Games have an inherent bias towards individualism and individual power. What they fail to point out is that this bias is also present in Movies, television shows, and stories. Movies are almost always about Neo/Luke/Hellboy actualizing their individual power and saving the world. Even more innocuous movies like A Beautiful Mind or Chasing Amy are about exploring the kinds of power people wield on the environment around them. While many other cultures focus upon characters struggling to survive, or the effects of the political or ideological environment upon people, Western stories are primarily focused upon the effects people can have on the world around them.

    The idea of individual power is pretty well embedded in our culture at large. "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is a distinctly American phrase, as is the idea that whatever may come in life it is due to actions or personal failings on the part of the recipient. If someone is poor, it must be because they are inferior, and vice / versa. We don't say that homeless people are homeless because they had antiquated skills, were laid off, and had no job-training programs available to them. We say that homeless people are homeless because they are lazy bums. We don't tell our kids that if they are lucky and flex their networking connections they have a statistical chance of rising as high as their social caste will allow. We tell them that all they need to do to become anything is "try harder."

    Now, do videogames have this attitude because of a belief inherent in the system, or is it reflecting larger cultural attitudes? I would say the latter, referring specifically to Japanese RPG's. The japanese RPG, unlike most American RPG's, are populated by the "reluctant hero," a figure tragically forced into the savior role, and whose ability to alter the environment around him is directly related to the power that is being wielded through him by another entity or concept. The heroes in Warcraft 3, for example, are heroes because they choose to fight. The hero in many Square games generally doesn't choose to fight until near the end, when he finally realizes that the ultimate goal in life is to become their pre-determined destiny. He is always supported in his quest by the spirits / gods / floating moa heads, and he always wins. Contrast that to GTA 3, where there is no higher moral authority determining your existence.

    Hence, western videogames reflect western individualistic beliefs about society. Is it any wonder that a western researcher ends his paper on a note of breaking through the false veneer of individualism in western games to find true individualism?

    P.S. I'm glad to see more people taking the medium of videogames seriously as a form of human expression worthy of research. Keep it up. We need about a million more of these papers.

    1. Re:Good article overall, but... by Ritorix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The beauty of video games is the choices given to the player of a game. This is completely different from any other media. No matter the theme of a movie, it is delivered in an authoritarian fashion. Movies are always the same experience which the viewer has no control over.

      While the American culture has a bias towards individualism, not all cultures do. Video games let the people of those cultures make choices they otherwise could not. It lets them experiment with true freedom of choice, morality, forms of government and other themes. In a MUD or MMORPG setting, it lets players see how their actions compare to actions of other international players.

      Modern video games allow one to transcend their culture, and act as they desire. When someone is allowed to make choices not normally allowed by their culture, it is truly revolutionary.

  14. Mario for President! by radimvice · · Score: 1

    We only need to look to the Mushroom Kingdom for the answer to all our problems...

  15. MMORPGs? by angst_ridden_hipster · · Score: 2

    Um, is it just me, or are all MMORPGs actually centrally administered, with a set of rules that could be arbitrarily changed by the host company?

    Gee, sounds like an authoritarian setup to me.

    Oh, but within the (possibily labile) boundaries of the rules, you're able to do as you like. Or, as the imprisoned freedom fighters are so often quoted as saying "within the confines of my prison cell, I am absolutely free."

    I supposed you could argue that the world is like that too (especially if you believe in a Supreme Being), and that we are free within the constraints of the rules... but the whole idea seems like the author trying to take a phenomenon, and force it to prove a point that he wants to make.

    --
    Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachtani?
    www.fogbound.net
  16. Unbiased? by aliya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What do you mean "unlike traditional media"? Traditional media is inherently biased towards anything that benefits traditional media, whether that be freedom of the press or corporate consolidation (of the media companies). Traditional media also tends to be very liberal, because only very liberal values will get them access to information and locations and embarrassing details and the private affairs of any and every entity that they think their consumers will pay for. The inherent bias of the media is the subject of books, journalism classes, and the careers of media researchers.

    1. Re:Unbiased? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I refer to "media" in the article, I don't mean news media. I mean older formats like the novel, film, etc. I am suggesting that they can be used to communicate any political idea whereas games have characteristics that make them less compatible with some viewpoints.

      Kevin

  17. see the violence inherent in the system! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    > unlike traditional media, are inherently biased

    "Unlike traditional media." Score:5, Funny!

    Believe me, the word "bias" wasn't invented for video games.

  18. Well researched... by Mike+Hawk · · Score: 1

    I'd tend to agree with the author that games tend to be more "free" than traditional media, but it is much simpler than the author wants to suggest. The free comes from the interaction alone. In a movie we go where the director, through the camera, wants us to go. In a game, the player controls where they go. But there will still always be a wall. There will still always be rules, from gravity to supply and demand. There will still always be motives. The game allows a player to inject their motivation, but that doesn't mean the intended result is possible in the world. The freedom is not political in nature, but merely functional. You still can't get anywhere the games designer does not intend for you to go.

    The other bit of the freedom puzzle, and this mostly applies to the MMORPG and similar games, is the limitless resources. The constant creation of an abundance of swords, shields, armor, gold, etc means that society is "free" to function very different than in the physical realm. What some, myself included, often see as ideal for the physical world cannot ever truly be attained as long as man is forced to deal with limited resources. One is "free" to run around PK'ing because there is another life for that character/player just around the bend. We can let the marketplace be truly "free" because there is truly enough for everyone. And if there isn't just hang around the spawn point for a minute and there will be.

    Now if this shallow "freedom" were to alter the perception of the player, what does this tell us? It should start to set off alot of alarms, for one thing. We would then be dangerously approaching the notion that (some) individuals are unable to know that this freedom is only possible through fantasy. That PK'ing is not ok. That economies are not boundless. Where do we go with a nation of youth who have had their perceptions altered to believe that the shopkeeper is an NPC and one is "free" to treat them how they wish?

    And even better, what do we do to the poor sod who always walks around pushing every brick looking for the ever-present secret room that contains the blue key to open the blue door to get to the green key...?

  19. It's 5:00, time for a sweeping generalization by CosmicDreams · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow, Gamers are all libertarian's? Huh, I didn't know that. Watch out before the thought police spiders into this site. You'll be first on thier list.

    Seriously, I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about a minority group of people without expelling a certain amount of common scense. You know that little voice that says, "Technically, there may exist those that do not conform to your model."

    On the other hand, I do certain games (Civ, Railroad Tycoon, and other strategy games) allow players to exercise political thoughts. Players can ask questions such as How does Democracy effect my bottom line? You mean I can't attack the annoying puny little country that just attacked my level 25 city without congress's permission? and why does communism suck so much?

    --
    Go Gusties
    1. Re:It's 5:00, time for a sweeping generalization by CosmicDreams · · Score: 2

      sorry for the typos, I meant to say:

      On the other hand, I do think certain games (Civ, Railroad Tycoon, and other strategy games) allow players to exercise political thoughts. Players can ask questions such as How does Democracy effect my bottom line?; You mean I can't attack the annoying puny little country that just attacked my level 25 city without congress's permission?; and why does communism suck so much?

      --
      Go Gusties
    2. Re:It's 5:00, time for a sweeping generalization by Sigma+7 · · Score: 2, Informative
      On the other hand, I do certain games (Civ, Railroad Tycoon, and other strategy games) allow players to exercise political thoughts.
      They also let the player relax in the event a nuclear war should occurr - those nuclear missiles only have a range of 16 tiles, which is less than a quarter of the globe. :)

      You mean I can't attack the annoying puny little country that just attacked my level 25 city without congress's permission?
      I would consider that to be a bug with the game rather than a political issue. In most democratic-style of governments, people would have no problem allowing for retaliation against an attack from an enemy, even if there is some political resistance.

      In the case with Civilization II, the senate always forces a peace treaty when a rival nation wants one, regardless of the circumstances. This is unrealistic in two means: first off, it ignores the reputation of the AI players (because AIs don't have that attribute - only human players). Secondly, it allows unprovoked attacks followed by an attempt at negotiation to force a treaty, repeated ad infinitum (same applies if an opponent has a Great Wall or United Nations.) The only way to counter attack is to dmaage your own rep (possibly causing a revolution as well).

      Still, it was a better simulation than Civ I - where you could avoid forced peace declarations by not accepting an audience with the emmisary.
  20. Blasted racists.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Maybe a liberal is a libertarian whose job has been off-shored"

    Blasted racists whining because there are many jobs that foreigners do better than Americans.

    1. Re:Blasted racists.... by Tukla · · Score: 1

      A cheaper job, yes. I haven't heard anyone claim that the foreigners do a better job.

  21. Team play = socialism? by Christ-on-a-bike · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Interesting article, though I only skimmed it. The games that are brought up seem to be largely solo-play ones though (GTA, Sim City, etc.). MMO games are mentioned, but they are often played solo too. Other interesting new computer games are played in teams. Isn't the 'politics' of a team game somewhat less 'individualistic'?

    For example, in public games of Counter-Strike players who are selfish and just play as they like (camping, team killing, deathmatching, and so on) are flamed and may be kicked. A certain degree of subservience to collective goals ('altruism', even) is expected. This seems quite the opposite ethic to GTA's ultimate freedom. And the behaviour expected in CS is more than mere politeness. If you're not playing with your team, you're not really playing the game at all.

    There are lots of games where you are expected to follow orders. PlanetSide is like this, if you take it seriously. There is a military command structure, not a democratic one. (cf. America's Army.)

    My take on team play is that people enjoy it because gameplay 'altruism' is natural part of socialising. Multiplayer gaming is social, team gaming more so. You get a kick out of seeing your team succeed, even if your avatar is killed. Some people take this further with clans and suchlike. The 'political' point is clear: by collaborating you can achieve more.

    1. Re:Team play = socialism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where on earth do you get the idea that "team players" are socialists? Playing fair with others is at the core of Libertarianism, which relies on their being a core set of laws (your right to swing your fist ends at another man's nose). It is in a libertarian's interest to play fair with like-minded people, because there is strength and security in numbers. This is the basis of "team play."

    2. Re:Team play = socialism? by Zirtix · · Score: 1
      In team play you share a single goal with your team-mates. However, the libertarian/individualistic ethic lets you choose your own goals.

      Put another way: the team player is prepared to give up their 'life', altruistically, for their team's success. Does this seem like 'individualism' to you? (Does it seem reasonable to call, say, NFL football 'individualistic'? And if not, what does that say about CAL CS play?)

      TFA said that players like to be in control and free. For example, players hate scripted sequences and FMV cut scenes. BUT in e.g. Counter-Strike you 'take one for the team'; your avatar dies and you must watch the remainder of the round non-interactively, like a cut scene. You're prepared to make this sacrifice of control because the team goals are more important than your avatar's survival. (This is how team play goes beyond simply 'playing fair'.)

      Socialism is collectivism: giving up some personal privileges and freedoms in order for a greater goal to be achieved. Team play can be interpreted this way, surely.

      Notice that I'm not saying that team players are all socialists! Just as TFA doesn't say that people who play GTA are all libertarians. The focus is supposed to be on the 'political meaning' of the games themselves.

      -- (Christ-on-a-bike posting under another account)

    3. Re:Team play = socialism? by Ritorix · · Score: 1

      Do not confuse altruism with team play.

      Altruism is giving of yourself while expecting nothing in return.

      When you act as a good team player in CS, or even a military in RL, you expect something in return. Victory, awards, recognition, pride, etc. Team play happens to be the best way to achieve a selfish result.

    4. Re:Team play = socialism? by Zirtix · · Score: 1
      Clearly, team play != 'pure altruism' (if altruism is ever pure). In team play the 'something you expect' is, in the first instance, collective success ( a 'win'). This is still altruism in a broad sense. For instance, dying in CS means you are less likely to be able to afford a good weapon in the next round; your stats will suffer. But as a good player you are prepared to die anyway, because otherwise the team may lose (yes - damaging your stats even more).

      The point is that such games are deliberately designed around the concept of team play, and rewarding collective behaviour. You cannot just do what you want in CS and expect to have a good time, let alone win. To win you must serve your team and make 'quasi-altruistic' tradeoffs.

      So regardless of whether multiplayer video games allow altruism, it seems that they present non-individualistic aspects. There are a range of possible 'political biases' to find in video games.

      -- (Christ-on-a-bike posting under another account)

    5. Re:Team play = socialism? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      That's a fallacy, because altruism is it's own reward. Or, in some cases, lack of altrusim is it's own punishment.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  22. Not True by Roto-Rooter+Man · · Score: 4, Funny
    --

    The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
  23. British games have lots of bias by Slashdot+Hivemind · · Score: 1

    British games have a long history of political bias-Monty Mole was about a scab in the miner's strike, Hostile Waters presents a vision of a nanotech communist paradise, Startopia used the alien setting to make analogous social commentary

  24. My two cents. by shaitand · · Score: 1

    First this is a load, not all games are structured this way. And games don't influence anything but games, this has been shown time and time again and yet people keep coming back trying to claim games are brainwashing people this way or that way. The truth is that people who ALREADY have certain mindsets and ideas are drawn to certain types of games. Games do not make people murderers or encourage them to shoot people. Rather people who are inclined to shoot other people are likely to be playing shooters and graphic killing style games if they play video games.

    Second. Let's pretend for a moment that this were true. How exactly is this a bad thing? Games are brainwashing people to have individual thought as opposed to joining in groups of hot out of the mold idiots who follow the crowd and are therefore easier to herd?

  25. No by IshanCaspian · · Score: 0, Troll

    That's US foreign policy.

    --

    But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut yer fat yap nerd.

  26. ...Yet Another Article on "Cinematic Gaming" by DaFlusha · · Score: 1

    I think it's a well-written article, but I'm not all that impressed with people who keep crying for a cinematic gaming experience. As Chris Crawford put it, the "word 'cinematic' seems to be more common in game design discussions than 'interactivity,' even though the latter is central to game design and the former is peripheral.

  27. I just don't see it by Roto-Rooter+Man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Considering the number of games where your character is fighting against an evil corporation -- or a future dystopia full of evil corporations -- I don't exactly see a bias toward lower government regulation.

    I have seen environmental alarmism in a number of games, as well as some over-the-top examples of pushing multiculturalism, animal liberation, and a few other social causes. Nothing too extreme or preachy though, and certainly less than the biases you can find in movies and typical entertainment TV. More the kind of thing that unintentionally comes from the story creator's own worldview rather than an overt attempt to infuse a political message into the game.

    On the other side, it sure seems like most games aren't in favor of gun control!

    --

    The goatse guy for president. Win one for the gaper!
  28. box in a box in a box in a box... by liminality · · Score: 1

    ahh yes, the indefatigable influence and political power of a chap sitting behind his computer all day playing games... this osunds more like the matrix trying to cover itself. "Liberate yourself through games!" LOL.

  29. Crimes and Punishments in MMORPG's by Sylven_1969 · · Score: 1

    Gaming is one of the few things that I have a great amount of knowledge in. I've been playing since I was ten (started on a vic-20 with cassette drive on Scott Adam's Adventure games). I have amassed a great collection of over 1000 titles on a wide variety of platform systems and of course the majority of my titles are for the PC. In the main MMORPG I play "The Eternal City" www.skotos.net , PKing and other "unacceptable" behaviors are usually handled with a public trial in the coliseum. This normally ends up finishing with the guilty party having a "fair" shot at freedom by fighting for the crowds against a raging bull, a couple of giant brown bears and a swordcat. This normally ends up with the guilty party being removed in pieces from the coliseum floor. This might sound like it's not much of an answer but if you consider that I have five years invested in my current character on the game you'd understand that having your character die isn't a "small thing". As I was reading the article one of the first games that came to mind other than the MMORPG's (massive multiplayer online role playing games) was Freelancer, which was mentioned later in the article. This game allows you the freedom after the main quest is finished to become a freelancing pirate or to buy a freightor and become a smuggler of illegal goods or a legit trading company. This is one of the few non multi-player games I've ever played that allows you that much freedom. Also in Morrowind when I first started I ignored the main plot and built my character up , in the process I not only joined the warriors guild but ended up killing the guildmaster (at the rest of the guilds prompting) and beomcing the new guildmaster for the entire gameworld. Games like Freelancer and Morrowind can bring some semblance of "freedom" to do what you choose, but the level of character interaction, political freedoms and carreer choices in an online game like "The Eternal City" is impossible to achieve in a stand alone single player game. The reason it's impossible is that games like TEC "evolve" over time, forming themselves about the "players" that support the production of such games. "however I suppose if they could make an incredible AI to change the gameworld around choices and actions made by your character it could happen". I'm new to /. and hope I can make a worthy contribution in the future to some of the great discussions that take place here.

    --
    Jay Dale "If you're not living on the edge then you're taking up too much space!"
  30. Isn't it just the opposite? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't game players just escapists who can't cope with reality? They must exist in artificial limitations in order to overcome contingencies beyond their control inherent in a completely open and "democratic" environment.

    If anything, people who play games would be happy shovelling shit for The Man of an autocratic government so long as there was a high score list for who shovelled the most.

  31. Mod parent up! but.... by nnappe · · Score: 1

    Western movies arent all from Hollywood. French Spanish, English and Latin American cinema is quite different from Hollywood.
    Even so, its a great comment