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Losing His Religion: Adrian Lamo Interview
digidave writes "Six months after the sit-down, TechFocus.org has published their interview with renowned hacker Adrian Lamo. Done before his arrest, TechFocus kept the interview secret so as not to influence the outcome of his trial. It remains his only interview since being arrested."
Except for this one he did for NPR's Marketplace that aired Wednesday.
It Figures the Times would do him in. He prob tried to read a story without registering.
Keep the faith, share the code
...cute young guy like that isn't ever going to want for cigarettes while he's in the joint.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
wait, this doesnt make sense "Done before his arrest, TechFocus kept the interview secret so as not to influence the outcome of his trial. It remains his only interview since being arrested." How can it be both before his arrest, ... and then be the only interview after being arrested??
Sig- http://www.dreamhost.com/rewards.cgi?ayefly
Losing His Religion: Techfocus Interviews Hacker
Adrian Lamo
Posted by Bill Royle on April 08, 2004
The companies he broke into reads like a Forbes ranking list. Yahoo! Excite@Home. MCI WorldCom. Microsoft. SBC Ameritech. Cingular.
He got away with it by notifying those companies of the weaknesses, and in some cases helped fix them, for free. Then he set his sights on the New York Times. They were less forgiving. Today, April 8th, Adrian Lamo will be sentenced - having plead guilty.
I first worked to get an interview with Adrian Lamo in July, 2003. Having compromised the networks of some of the most influential companies in the world was not incredibly unusual, but the manner in which it was done was intriguing. Adrian Lamo has been termed the "homeless hacker," the "helpful hacker" and numerous other nicknames - because instead of disappearing into the ether, he would make the company aware of the flaw he had exploited, and in some cases would advise them on how to resolve it. Based on that approach, Lamo was fortunate to have dealt with companies that didn't choose to press charges.
Then, during an interview with SecurityFocus (not affiliated with Techfocus), he admitted to having broken into the NY Times network. The interviewer contacted the New York Times in a request for comment. Shortly thereafter, the FBI started an investigation. He was ultimately arrested in September for the penetration of the New York Times network, and for using their resources. Today he has pleaded guilty to breaking into their network, and for conducting unauthorized searches on Lexis/Nexis - all on the Grey Lady's tab. You can read the original criminal complaint here.
Lamo had another distinction from many hackers - he did so while homeless. While his family was willing to house him, he set off on his own, traveling from place to place via Greyhound. Occasionally he slept on the couches of people he knew in different cities, at other times he would sleep in abandoned buildings or anywhere feasible. All the while, he traversed networks using a battered laptop with a wireless network card.
Adrian Lamo is most assuredly unique. A month after his arrest, I received an email from him asking how the weather was. A bit puzzled, I contacted a mutual acquaintance to verify that it was Adrian. Indeed it was, so we met the next weekend near his home to discuss his background, and the serious charges he faced.
This was no ordinary interview. Not only had Lamo not given any interviews since the arrest, but the FBI had been exerting tremendous pressure on journalists that had spoken with Lamo, demanding that they turn over all notes and correspondence with him. It was only after a strong outcry from the journalistic community and their attorneys that the FBI grudgingly relaxed their demands, but there was little solace in that. As such, there was nothing written down - just a digital voice recorder with a limited battery. Upon the conclusion of the interview, the recording was transcribed to the PC, then sent to an offshore server outside of my control, in the event that an order was made to surrender it. The digital recording was destroyed.
We hope you enjoy the interview.
Update: Sentencing has been delayed until June.
When did you get started getting interested in security online?
"That'd depend on how you define started, I guess. My first exposure to computers was my Dad's Commodore 64 when I was six or seven, and as you may have read somewhere, I was interested in making things work differently than the way they were intended - loading, then inputting it and using the list command to see all of the code contained within it to see what the hell I was supposed to do with this blind corner that didn't seem to go anywhere."
What kind of games?
"Text-based adventure, like Zork-style."
What moved you to move from disk-based security to a larger scale type of interest?
"To
The interview linked to in the story is not really the best I have read. There was one done in Wired a while back that had a lot more about his exploits. A particular favorite among the stories he told was one where he and some friends were exploring a Gypsum factory while high on methanphetamines. The police came and just when they were about to get arrested Lamo hears a cat and tells the officers he had come in to rescue it. Sure enough they find the cat and Lamo and his friends are not arrested.
_____
Thank you.
here's (bottom of page) an interview with Lamo I heard on Marketplace a couple days ago. It's really pretty good, he also rags on the computer security industry. Not entirely justified, but he makes some valid points.
it seems to me that unless the comanies specifically hired him as a security consultant, then he has no legal support in these matters.
However, he did not damage/alter any of the sites he hacked (excluding NYTimes, which was a minor addition to the list of "experts"). This does not help him in the courts though, because the act of breaking into the company's networks was illegal in itself.
Well, they'll never be able to track you via your slashdot account.
Seriously, there's a rather supernatural school of thought that says we'll never hear interviews from the "best hackers," because they'll never get caught. I don't believe in superhackers -- but you have to wonder, with these guys catching interview with Lamo right before his latch, if an ego is REALLY the best thing for any criminal to possess. I mean, you need respect and renown to make it in a world without structure, but it seems having the blackhats known your name makes it easier for it to fall in the laps of the whitehats.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
wired also has an article about him. Pretty informative about his history and current conditions. Read away...t ml
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.04/hacker.h
If you go to 2600's website, you can get an mp3 of the last show here. Adrian Lamo was present and spoke about a few things. Also, check the archives, he was on the show previously.
*twitch*
Here's the interview, folks... we've been /.'ed before, but never at this magnitude. The server op is working to get things evened out, but in the meantime here is the text:
When did you get started getting interested in security online?
"That'd depend on how you define started, I guess. My first exposure to computers was my Dad's Commodore 64 when I was six or seven, and as you may have read somewhere, I was interested in making things work differently than the way they were intended - loading, then inputting it and using the list command to see all of the code contained within it to see what the hell I was supposed to do with this blind corner that didn't seem to go anywhere."
What kind of games?
"Text-based adventure, like Zork-style."
What moved you to move from disk-based security to a larger scale type of interest?
"To me there's never been that much of a differentiation, in the sense that what I do is less about a particular methodology of technology that's applicable to some technology but not applicable to others. And more about seeing things differently - seeing things that people see everyday, but seeing them in a way that they never saw, that people who created them never intended them to be seen. To see them, to see what is around them and make them more as the sum of their parts and in doing so cause them to operate in a way that was never intended, expected or even thought possible."
Have you always done this type of thing alone, or do you prefer doing it in a team of other people?
"I've always worked alone pretty much. I will occasionally give pointers, but I very much believe that nobody should look at me as an example to be followed - in the sense that if there's anything that I've done, it's... occupied a space in our world that previously was not occupied. And if there's anything that I can say to anybody that is considering starting out on their own, it's to do something that nobody before them has done. And as such, if I was to really try to unduly influence anybody's path, even by working with them, I'd think that I'd be being untrue to the nature of what I do."
There was a question on the site from someone asking if there were any "schools" or any places to become a "pro hacker." Do you have any suggestions as to where people could go or what you suggest for people who were interested in being an enthusiast?
"The mean streets of Washington D.C. on two dollars a day. Surviving on that - that's a hack."
What was your favorite city in terms of your travels?
"I don't think I have one particular favorite. I have strong affinities to DC, Philadelphia, San Francisco and probably Sacramento, as well as Pittsburgh."
You've been referred to as the "homeless hacker," or "helpful hacker." What started you on the road? Did you have to leave your home against your will - did your parents kick you out or was it something you chose to do?
"No, my parents have always been very good to me. They've always been there for me, no matter what, and they're really great people. When I was seventeen or so, they moved to Sacramento."
Did you like her? Was she a good mom?
"Yeah, she's a great mom. How many moms would stand on the doorstep of a home and tell the FBI "thou shalt not pass," essentially?"
She had said that she wished that you would do something something that everyone would see as positive. Is there any sort of discontent between your family and you when it comes to this field, or is it something you're moving past now?
"The family's in some hard financial straits right now. In many ways I think they don't see what I do as I see it, and certainly not be involved in that respect. They, I believe, view it (computing) more as a hobby and don't really understand, and it seemed to be much closer to being about religion for me."
A
I dont mean to flame or anything, but im not to impressed by Lamo. he did some crazy things, but any lucky script kiddie could do the same. besides the fact that he was a meth addict, his "hacker skills" consist of using a web browser to snoop in unprotected directorys. In fact, he does not even know c++ or java.
There are a couple of things wrong here, which indicate that you've not read the article (and that the original poster got it a bit wrong.)
First off, we knew we'd get subpoenaed, and were ready if that happened.
Second, the notes aren't incriminating to Lamo beyond what some might find offensive regarding his personality (ie. giving someone money to help them get drugs.) If that's pretext for additional charges, we're all in trouble.
Third, none of the the questions or the answers related to his crimes or hacks. What you see in the interview is the transcription of our interview, verbatim.
Thus, under your criteria, prepare to be amazed.
If you break the law shut up about it. Seriously, people bend and break laws all the time. Good, honest people. They cheat a little on their taxes, they don't stop all the way at stop signs, maybe they visit a prostitute occasionally.
No one really cares until:
1) The problem becomes extreme - instead of going 5 miles/hour over the speed limit you go 25 over.
2) You trumpet your illegalities all over the place.
If a sysadmin at the NY Times had received a discreet phone call from Lamo they would have had the option to ignore the whole situation and just quietly fix the problem. Instead they got a phone call from a reporter who was about to write a news piece on how this guy broke into their network.
I'm not saying that they were right, just that it's understandable and Lamo shot himself in the foot with his lack of discretion. I learned this same lesson in high school when I wrote a creative writing paper that was so bloody offensive that I had to have a conference with my parents, the principle, the teacher and the school psychologist. My teacher told me in private that he wouldn't have done anything but make me re-write the paper but since I showed it to a bunch of people (whose parents called in) he had no choice.