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FIRST Robotics Championship Underway
Bob Moretti writes "The annual FIRST robotics championship is underway at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. 295 of the best high school teams from North America and beyond have brought close to 20,000 students. 130 pound, 5 foot tall robots compete for pride and national recognition. NASA is providing a webcast. An explanation of the somewhat complicated rules can be found here. Any event that puts science and engineering in the spotlight for thousands of high school kids, many of them from low income or inner city areas, is a must-see. <shameless promotion> My team is currently in 20th place in the Galileo division. </shameless promotion>"
How about a link that works
130 pound, 5 foot tall robots compete for pride and national recognition.
The robots do what they do because some nice person has placed a wire up their ass, unless this is an advanced AI contest.
The robocup (real football/socer) people use 23cm diameter max robots. The american football people use 5 foot robots.
:o)
Bet the american football robots still insist on wearing body armour. Bunch of old women
Beep beep.
I think the Lego league sounds fun.
MINDSTORMS have become really hard to find. Do any retail outlets still carry them, or are we just left with the Lego website?
My School, WEttown School, a large Private school in East PA is there too. They are the team that one the "Best Rookie Team" Award at the Anapolis Reagionals and placed 15th there too! WE are all really syked about their success.
The most successful candidates, the most experienced candidates, are fundamentally driven by the simple, throbbing desire to eventually succeed in building a real girl (or at least an interim jerk-off-bot) a la Weird Science.
I for one welcome our teenage robot building overlords!
Er, wait....that would be truly frightening. Robot-building teenager overlords! Yeah, that's it.
Please help metamoderate.
Sure many of the teams are from 'inner city' schools but the competetiveness of team has nothing to do with the students and everything to do with corporate sponsorship.
I was at a low income rural high school and we competed in 1997. There was no qualification to go to nationals, just pay up the $3000 entry fee. We had a local construction company pay for the entry fee and the high school gave a few hundred for parts.
When we got to the tournament (we all paid our own travel and lodging) we found out the student built robots are an extreme exception. Most literally are built at the labs of GM or NASA or who ever is the sponsor, the engineers do everything, and the students have no clue. This is encouraged. A machine actually built by students in their school doesn't stand a chance
USFirst is a joke in terms of education, it's just a big PR opportunity.
im looking at 300kbps streaming video just for a results page, you know , exactly the sort of data that could be on a webpage (in realtime too) but no lets just waste bandwidth
what a waste when they could be streaming
tech videos/interviews/live roving cam teams/behind the scenes
grab a couple of DV camera nerds, a wannabe presenter chick/guy, a microwave TV link and USE the technology to stream something a bit more creative than a page of numbers
My high school participates in BEST (specifically, the San Antonio hub), which seems to be similar-- except FIRST actually seems to involve some programming (BEST robots are basically controlled not unlike how an RC car would be controlled).
Nonetheless, these programs are a great way to teach hands-on engineering to students.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but it's my understanding that Lee De Forest--who liked to call himself the "father of radio" after he wrote the world's first Ph.D. dissertation on wireless technology--was really more like the benevolent uncle of the vacuum tube, maybe even the father of modern electronics; but in terms of radio he didn't do much more than Marconi.
Where does everyone put Marconi on the spectrum of today's media ancestry?
NOLA center for sci math, a Rookie school pulled a top half ranking (23 of 46) as a rookie school. Go fighting Nautali! wh00t!
about a month ago I was visiting during spring break. I was one of the founding members of the robotics club... except back then we called it RobiticA, and it was less of a robotics club per se and more of an excuse to cut class and play with electric motors, hydrolics and Legoes. in communist russia your sig posts you.
Lee De Forest smoked Marconi's big fat cock.
Dude, that is so fucking insensitive... You seem to be completely clueless about all that De Forest has done for you; I think if you'll examine your life and your media diet you'll find out what a prominent part De Forest's innovations play in it every day. He was responsible, in large part, for a paradigm shift that yielded all the technologies we enjoy today.
Besides, Marconi was an ass pirate.
Marconi is, by all measures, the essential father of the modern media-immersed lifestyle. While it's true that Buckminster Fuller coinedd the phrase 'global village', I believe it was Marconi who made that vision possible to begin with.
I know I define a successful robot build on how well it does in Robot Wars. All of these other tests seem, well, pointless. When you pit 2 robots against eachother in a battle to the death, that's the true test. Survival of the fittest defines strong humans, why not robots?
Definately a cool program. I was involved in it 2 years ago, my team (643) won the Virginia regional and got 2nd in the Philadelphia regional. We also were in the championship tournament at Disney. For about all of January and Feburary (each year's challange is released near the turn of the year) the team worked on designing and building the robot and soliciting funds for hours each day. The championship was great, the school even gave us spending money and FIRST gave us vouchers for meals and tickets to the park. They even rented out Epcot for one night (and they took up half the parking lot for the whole week). Of course Dean Kamen was their with his Segway. It was certainly a great experiance and well worth it. Despite pressure from the school Administration and students, the tech. teachers didn't do it this year or last year, it was too much of a time commitment and they have families (I doubt their wives would have let them).
Is this something like the Robocup Junior on a national level?
In fact, Lee De Forest was very much an innovator in the postmodern sense that Thomas Edison was an innovator.
I mean, both Edison and De Forest are credited for sweeping innovation and groundbreaking invention, neither of them were much more than publicists, promoters... they were the pre-internet equivalent of affiliate web sites, offering no contribution of their own, merely peddling wares produced by others.
You suck Marconi's fat cock.
There goes Marconi, driving around his zamboni, with you in his lap deepthroating his monstrous father-of-god member.
booyea.
Boy, the Slashdot community sure has deteriorated.
People used to be able to discuss important issues like this without resorting to weird fucking surrealistic oneupsmanship.
God, it's almost as bad as Kuro5hin here now.
Sadly, there's a lot of truth to this.
I've been involved on the periphery of a not-so-local high school's (Rick Hansen Secondary School - Team 1241 "Force 6") development project and I'm disappointed in the extremely high cost of entry (ie to be registered and to get a kit), the sophistication of the projects as well as the other costs associated with it. It is essentially impossible to field a team for less than $35k CAN ($25k+ USD) to be successful. This includes money for the kits as well as travel expenses and, amazingly enough, promotional materials that are needed to ask for sponsorship funds.
The high cost of entry really bars schools from low-income inner city neighborhoods, which are the ones that would probably benefit the most from the experience. These schools also do not have contacts/parents in industry that could help as mentors and sponsors. This is probably the biggest issue I have with USFIRST right now.
The robot task is such that high school kids cannot work through them without substantial help from experienced engineers and what the kinds get out of the program (as well as put into it) depends primarily on how the sponsor engineers allow the kids to do. The best sponsors are high level advisors and make sure the kids plan out the designs themselves and help them think through the problems that they encounter rather than do the design themselves. I'm sure there are a lot of cases where the kids are barely able to play around with the robots before the competition because of the amount of time the sponsors put into the robots.
There is too much emphasis on the necessary fund raising. The Rick Hansen team had created a promotional DVD along with glossy brochures; there is an irony that these materials can be produced quite cheaply because they give the impression that the team has more money than they know what to do with.
Rather than limiting the kids to the materials supplied in the (incredibly expensive) kits, I would prefer seeing something where the bare minimum was provided by FIRST and the majority of parts were to be found at Home Depot/Digikey by the kids themselves. I think this would limit the price somewhat, would allow the kids to spend more time on design, building and experimenting (which is what FIRST should be all about anyway).
There should also be a restriction on how much the sponsors can do - clearly there are a lot of teams that benefit from corporate tool rooms with trained tool makers and do not rely on industrial arts rooms with the students learning how to machine parts on their own. To help enforce this, I believe that each team, to qualify must provide documentation on the robot to prove that the students were primarily responsible for the design and this documentation could be made available by USFIRST as guides for later teams.
Regardless of the warts, USFIRST is the best opportunity kids have to learn, design and compete with others. The events are amazing, fun and energetic experiences that are barely controlled chaos. The kids have a lot of fun, FIRST is a great way to build school spirit and it gives a few kids an opportunity to see if engineering/computer science is the way they want to go in life.
myke
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
This is pretty cool that the Slashdot crowd follows this too. The Patribots just joined this year as a last minute team and we got 21 of 43 at the Colorado regional. Being one of 18 rooky teams it was quite the accomplishment along with getting the rooky inspiration award.
-Tim Louden
I have always been of the opinion that Tesla invented radio... along with every thing else...
*clever sig*
My school competed in this last year...
We are an inner-city public school. We had no sponsor, couldn't cough up the $20000 entry fee (or whatever it was), and made our robot for under $200. They waived the entry for our aptly titled "ghetto bot". When wer got there, the number of student built robots were slim to none. Most realyl are built by the engineers that sponsored the school.
We didnt get last though, so i guess thats good.
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
1. The robots are not autonomous. They're little more than big RC cars. No AI, no computer vision, frankly little computer stuff at all. If you're student interested in CS, this competition has little to offer you.
... make their *own* "LegoLeague". Basically a heavily dumbed-down version of BotBall. So rather than work with BotBall, they're trying to run them out of business it looks to me.
2. The cost is daunting. A typical budget for a FIRST team is about $15K. This basically means that FIRST is a competition only for kids from affluent suburban high schools. If you're an inner-city school, unless you're lucky enough to get a grant, you're not good enough for this competition.
3. FIRST often arranges for grants by teaming schools with corporate sponsors. The sponsors provide in-kind cash and some mentoring. But my experience is that sponsors, being corporations, rationally want to make sure that their "donations" maximize their own visibility, and so when the kids' efforts go south, the corporations wind up doing much, even most, of the work on the robots, particularly in inner-city or otherwise disadvantaged schools with less resources. In some cases kids have been reduced to being, more or less, the joystick operators.
4. FIRST doesn't play ball nicely with other, frankly rather better, competitions. For example, BotBall (www.kipr.org) has been around for a long time, and kids have a month or two to build an autonomous robot to solve a complex task using lego. Thus this incorporates EE, CS, and ME aspects of robotics. The cost of materials is usually about $1K. Recognizing that their $15K entry made FIRST only available for the Mercedes Benz class schools, they looked to BotBall for some inspiration and decided to
I do not get a good feeling about FIRST in the least.
thanks for this very informative posting
Only the machine instructions are linked to a physical demonstration. This "amateur robotics" competition is really more about manufacturing skill and hand-eye coordination, not advancing technology or even implementing it in new or creatively useful ways. I see little practical difference between this and the Boy Scouts' Pine Derby.
The first 10 seconds of a match are purely autonomous.
And why is it only the first 10 seconds? What happens in under half a minute that is so chaotic and uncontrolled that they need such tight constraints?
My car can manage to drive itself 'autonomously' down a straight road if I turn it on and give it fuel, for about 10 seconds.
Wow... This article provides great evidence how many /.ers are teenagers :)
My rookie team placed 15th out of 52 teams in the Granite State Regional. We were a student team, with a couple of mechanical engineers who volunteered their time but not much money. We even beat our mentors!
</plug type="shameless">
and challenges the students involved to build the robots in a limited time enviroment (something like 8 weeks) for competition. No replacements are allowed, iirc, and only reworking can be done on site.
This'd directly refute the poster above, that thinks they're completely built by sponsors. I covered the Connecticut competition at the invitation of a systems operator involved with the event. It looked to me like most of the robots were well constructed home-brew with a competent technician helping the students along, shop teacher style.
Seems to me from being there and looking at the robots that there wouldn't be a huge advantage from designing them in a lab environment. The tasks are more geared toward creative design than sheer money thrown at them.
You're reading Slashdot. Of course you like Linux and pc hardware
I'm a member of a Southwestern ontario robotics team.
our budget is rarly more than 6500$, 5000$ of that goes to our entry fee.
In the past 3 years we have competed against 50-75 teams at our toronto regional.
We have placed 8th,6th, and 4th.
Seeing the amazing machines that GM, Delphi, and NASA are able to make is breathtaking, our team consists of 2 Teachers, 2 engineers and aroun 15 students. We consistantly outplace teams with 20k+ funding and engineer driven..
This just shoes that determined thinking and commitment to a project can push us past our obsticles.
It is rather disturbing how many people are bashing the program. It is a good chance for students to learn about many things they otherwise wouldn't in high school. The students on the team I help mentor (1243 out of Swartz Creek, MI) did all the pnuematics and all the electrical systems. We also have students learning how to program in C, doing all the autonomous code and writing code to handle inputs from the various controls. All the mentors did was explain to them how the systems worked, they hooked it up, they figured out problems, and they built the robot.
We are a rookie team this year, took first at the Grand Rapids regional, and are currently competing at the championship (17th place in the Curie division, currently). Sadly, I am not there.
So you guys are the incompetent administration?
I was the lead programmer for our team, 1240, and I had a really great time participating in the Midwest Regional Competition. We ended up getting third to last (we were under manned and under budgeted), but it isn't about winning.
What was so cool about this whole thing was, if you needed help with your robot, there were literally 2 or 3 teams coming to help you, because teammate selections were random it was to your best interest that everyone's robot worked! Everyone there was so nice and easy to talk with.
I just wish I wasn't a senior when our school started to participate with this, because I would definitely do it again!
My team seeded 4th and made it to the regional semi-finals.
:-D
We had a good event even if we didn't win. Was kind of disappointing to not even get an honorable mention for the Chairman's Award though. (For those that don't know, the Chairman's Award is the highest award at any FIRST competition) We had a good last match, and we're proud of what we accomplished.
Congratulations to any mentors (or even students) who's team participated in the competition. This being my rookie year, it's much more involved then it looks from the outside. But I'll definately be back next year
For those that don't know, FIRST stands for: "For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology." The founder gave an awesome speech on "outsourcing" through history and how people shouldn't be worried about it impacting our lives now, since we always have done it through the years and moved on to better things.
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
the link to the rules goes to a video page instead. i wanted rules darnit!
I'm on Team 818, and we had a lot of fun at the Detroit and Palmetto regionals, although sadly, we didn't make it to nationals this year. Oh well, there's always next year!
Money smooths the road to FIRST, true. It's certainly nice to be able to afford whatever parts are necessary--and since my team got our NASA sponsorship this year only after the fund-raising was underway, I know about the luxury of not having to beg. Also, I freely admit that there are team members who don't touch the robot, ever, preferring to do administrative or PR jobs. However. I must strenuously disagree with your perception of FIRST. The engineers helping us lent their time and expertise to the project; by no means did they take it over for themselves. Except for welding done off-site, each robot was built entirely in my school's carpentry shop. I can't speak for anyone else's team, but in ours some of the best suggestions to improve the robot have come from kids, every year. Yeah, the PR is pretty disgusting. That millionaire-inventor-founder guy creeps me out for some reason, and the videos they produce are perhaps not the best possible use of anyone's time. Oh, and all the forced merriment and team spirit at competition is a bit much. ...but I still love robotics (and FIRST), and I can only conclude it's because I'm actually learning. Maybe your team was unlucky. Your grim view looks like the exception to me.
How about just not bothering to post this as news if you are going to do it on the day of the event. Perhaps running the story a week in advance would allow people time to make plans to attend. All reporting on the day of the event does is bog down their web servers with frantic clickers.
:-)
Think about it. If you do this, you can post a follow up story where people can post links to pictures they took and their personal feelings of what they saw. That'd be cool, wouldn't it? Nah, nevermind. It's much easier to just throw links, in mindless fashion, at whoever will click on them.
Just my 2 cent..
Autonomous Mode is the first 15 seconds, not the first 10.
Someone above said it best - robots built soley by sponsors are as much the exception to the norm as robots built soley by students. The idea is for students to work together with mentors to get the job done, and the vast majority of teams do that. My team has found some engineers and machine shops in our town willing to help us out. They work with us, and we [the students] really do learn a lot ourselves.
As for the price complaints, yeah, this competition is expensive ($5000 to enter the first competition and get a basic kit of parts, $4000 for each additional competition, and the cost of additional parts, which easily can run another $2000). However, the whole point is to learn more than just robotics - people learn a bit of business too. My team has gone out to the community, talked to local companies, and has gotten plenty of fundraising. Last year, we talked to a Mercedes dealer and auctioned off a Mercedes... we raked in $18,000 from this fundraiser. How many other high school activities can say they've done something with as many real-world implications as this?
As for the people saying there's very little programming involved and everything is just a giant RC car, that completely depends on how far you want to go. Some teams do nothing more than go with the default code while other teams build IR beacon tracking arrays, make current sensors capable of reading rediculous draws like 70amps and use feedback loops to adjust robot operation... I've seen teams use multiple gyroscopes and wheel encoders to adjust and track the bearing of their robot in autonomous mode... the point is you can have very little programming, or you can go all out - it depends on what you're willing to do and learn.
Personally, I've learned a lot from my three years on my FIRST team, team 810. FIRST let me do things I never would have dreamed of doing in other programs at my high school, and it has definately helped me decide I want to go into engineering. As my final words to those of you who are calling FIRST a scam, I wrote my college essays about my experiences on my FIRST team. Judging from the big envelopes that have arrived at my mailbox, the folks at CalTech, MIT, Cornell, and Carnegie Mellon all thought FIRST was a good thing too.
-Dan L
Smithtown, New York