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Video Projector for Home Theater?

ZeLonewolf writes "I'm thinking about setting up a movie-style home theater system. I've already got the room set up and I've obtained a nice sound system. The last step is to acquire a video projector. I'm considering a few options: Projectors on eBay run from $300 to the tens of thousands. On the other hand, being an electrical engineer, there are plans online to build your own (Google cache), that are potentially as cheap as $200. What are Slashdotters' experiences? Will a $300 projector do the job? How about a home brew?"

56 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Wrong place. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 5, Informative

    Get thee over to http://www.avsforum.com and you'll find your answers.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    1. Re:Wrong place. by steve · · Score: 5, Informative

      By far the best place is indeed avsforum. just one warning, everyone raves about the infocus X1 over there. That being said if you are going for a true home theatre system make sure you keep in mind your requirements like: - image format (4:3, 16:9) - room type (controlled light, living room etc..) - What will you watch the most? (tv, dvd, pc etc..) - What will you use to feed the projector? (tuner card, PC, video switch etc..) - Will you need true HD ? (requires true HD components like HDTV tuner cards etc..) and don't fall into the fallacies of buying a PC projector if that's not what you want (I have seen many people do this). just my 2cp as a proud owner of a Epson Home lite 10 using myhtpc.

      --
      "there is a marmot in the bucket ? I'll go fix that." (don't ask)
    2. Re:Wrong place. by MadGrizzle · · Score: 5, Informative

      X1 is best bang for the buck, but be aware that you may notice "rainbows" from the unit (search the avsforum for description of the phenomenon). I noticed them and knew I couldn't tolerate them. After 6 months of research, I settled on a Sony HS20 ($3k). It was 3x the price of an X1, but with its HD capabilities, HDCP/DVI/HDMI support and amazing picture quality, it was well worth the money.

    3. Re:Wrong place. by beatbox · · Score: 5, Informative

      In particular, check out their "Digital Projectors - Under $3500 USD MSRP" forum.
      This site is really good. I used to have an old Microtek MVP 700s. It was not so good. The contrast was bad. The color was off, and it had loud fans. I went to the under 3500 forum and read up on the posts. Tons of people were raving about how great the InFocus X1 was. I researched it, and ended up buying one for about $800. It's fantastic! Looks great, nice and bright, quite quiet...

    4. Re:Wrong place. by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Informative
      Good advice. Also consider the noise level: some projectors are rather quiet where others sound like a 747 taking off. Finally inquire about bulb life and cost: as a rule the bulbs are expensive.
      By far the best place is indeed avsforum. just one warning, everyone raves about the infocus X1
      Oh, and try to find a shop where you can see two projectors in action side-by-side, for comparison. I was sure I was going to buy the Infocus X1 (partly going by the advice on AVSForum. But after comparing a few units, I settled on the NEC VT46, with a much brighter image and significantly less fan noise. The moral of the story is: go see the unit of your choice first before spending your money.

      As for buying on Ebay... if you happen to buy a secondhand unit with a bulb nearing its end, that $300 projector may need a $400 bulb replacement soon.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    5. Re:Wrong place. by Saiai+Hakutyoutani · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I believe the rainbows are present on all DLP projectors, but for some reason they don't seem to be noticeable to most people.

      I'd go for a cheaper LCD projector with a blurrier picture, but without the nuisance of having to se RGB flashes every time I move my eyes.

  2. Ask elsewhere for better info... by jargoone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Link to a Yahoo group, and their bandwidth is exceeded even before the story is posted. Niiiice...

    The "homebrew" ones are a joke if you want something with a decent picture. And the contraption itself looks riduculous. Forget it.

    There is a good deal on a refurbed DLP projector for about $3500 -- check gotapex.com (great site for deals). Read around for more info on what DLP is, but that and LCD are preferable to CRT projectors these days.

    Anyway, you're more likely to get better information from someplace that deals directly with home theater equipment. The forum at Home Theater Spot has great information, despite their gestapo posting rules.

    1. Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... by gessel · · Score: 4, Informative

      Be aware though, as an owner of an LCD projector, that watching TV runs about $0.40/hr in bulbs (actual life for me runs about 1000 hrs to failure, about 700 until the picture is so obviously muddy that failure is pending). Of course ebay helps reduce the bulb cost to a more managable $0.10/hr.

      CRT projectors run 7500-10,000 hrs on a set of guns, which at retail isn't that different for the nice ones, but used they're a much better bargain over a long period of time. Plus a good CRT projector has an infinitely better picture than an LCD/DMD, though all a capable of far exceeding the data avialable in a NTSC image.

      Some details though:
      DMD/LCD projectors generally have square pixels, so you get 640x480, or more likely you scale by a non-integer and get a blurry picture (it's probably still far better than a regular TV, so the blurring may be irrelevant). CRTs don't quantify the scan lines into pixels and are therefore "better" with analog TV. Digital TV is another beast, but typically also uses non-square pixels (eg D1 720x480) which inexpensive DMD/LCD projectors still can't deal with except by scaling.

      I find DMD projectors "harsh". Others might call it "crisp." It doesn't look good to me. LCDs look better, but are a bit muddy. A good CRT projector looks great. But they're HUGE, and expensive, so... LCD or DMD projectors are probably the way to go in practice, just be aware of the operating cost. Figure out which models meet your requirements, figure out the purchase price, and add pro-rated bulb cost and see if it's still a good deal. Bulb prices vary a lot by projectors, but in general don't buy something brighter than you need, or you'll be paying for it as long as you own it.

    2. Re:Ask elsewhere for better info... by dfghjk · · Score: 3, Informative

      While I would agree that CRT projectors can be great and I use one in my theater, I wouldn't agree that the have an "infinitely better picture" (how's that?) or that they "don't quantify the scan lines". They most certainly do. With CRT projectors you will need to match a video processor to the projector and to the screen size and you will need to plan on frequent calibration. With CRT's you get fantastic blacks and tremendous color but it takes a commitment to live with them.

  3. You get what you pay for. by ECXStar · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I did this same research and with projectors, you do get what you paid for. Rear projection will be brighter and more suiteable for home situations due to lighting. Just my 2c...

    1. Re:You get what you pay for. by bcboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Rear projection units, frankly, don't hold a candle to the latest generation of projectors in the same price range. I spent less than a rear projector would have cost me and got a much nicer product.

      Of course image quality is subjective, and there are endless other factors to consider like room lighting, room size, and so-forth.

      I never watch videos in daylight hours and I never watch broadcast TV at all, so the decision was easier. But depending on the room it can be quite cheap to control the light with some blackout cloth.

      I also didn't want an enormous box in the room. The projector is very discrete and not in the way of anything. With young children it's almost impossible to make it to a theater any more, but with a beautiful projection on a 100" screen I don't feel the need to.

  4. McFly? by Superliminal · · Score: 5, Funny

    Not to be curmudgeonly, but why the hell even *bother* posting a link to geocities on slashdot? Hello? Anybody?

  5. Hmm, e-bay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Getting them from E-bay might not be a good idea, remember that the lightbulb has a limited number of hours before the light strenght is reduced and it finally breaks.

  6. Durn... alternate site? by ferralis · · Score: 3, Informative
    Apparently the geocities account wasn't big enough for even the preliminary /. effect.

    Anybody have an alternate site? I found this one on google.

    --
    Any generalization is a stupid one.
  7. Tough by Sv-Manowar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    a $300 projector will more likely than not have poor quality and have faults within a year, there is a reason that good quality projecters are priced so highly. I have only expierenced bad quality when i have used cheap projectors on my projects, so i would recommend buying new from a top retailer such as Sony, and see how it suits you. And if you don't like it / it has faults you can return it with warranty

  8. Bulbs by Ickster · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was looking into projectors as well, but discovered a big drawback: the bulbs are good for about 2000 hours and then run about $350 (on average) for a new one. That's a lot of money every couple of years...

    --
    --- Usually, those that believe in absolutes are ignorant, fools, or both.
    1. Re:Bulbs by Maniakes · · Score: 4, Informative

      $350 / 2000 hours = 17.5 cents/hour.
      Movie from blockbuster = $3 / 2 hours = $1.50/hour

      Bulb costs are swamped by content costs.

      --
      A legparnasom tele van angolnaval.
  9. DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? by revscat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My father in law works at Texas Instruments and got ahold of one of those DLP projectors. Holy moly, that thing looks GREAT. We watched Two Towers on it, and he had put up a simple white sheet on the wall to watch the movie on. It looked very nice, like a smaller movie projection. Colors are extremely bright; I'd been so used to projectors losing brightness proportional to their distance that the brightness of this thing took me by surprise.

    Plus those DLP chips are just so freakin' cool.

    1. Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? by isaac · · Score: 5, Funny
      I'd been so used to projectors losing brightness proportional to their distance that the brightness of this thing took me by surprise.

      I'd be pretty surprised if any projector, DLP or otherwise, did not decrease in intensity as the inverse square of the distance.

      -Isaac

      --
      I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
    2. Re:DLP: Bright, clear, and did I mention bright? by Cylix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I got one better...

      I watched two towers at my universities planetarium. It already had a great projector, we simply hooked up a DVD player to the unit.

      Yeah, I think they spent well over 2 mil on the setup, but what's the point in having something if you can't abuse it?

      Labtech's are handy creatures to keep around.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
  10. Epson S1 gets the job done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Picked up an Epson S1 ($800-$999) after looking into making my own and adding up the hours it might take (way too much). So far I have been very pleased with it. I have it plugged into a old pc/tv tuner and it works great for daily usage and the bulbs are cheap ($150 Street). I was too lazy to make or purchase a screen so the wall with the white lead paint will do for now.... ;-)

  11. This might help by BagOBones · · Score: 5, Informative

    I found this site to be very helpfull when picking out a projector.

    http://www.projectorcentral.com

    --
    EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
  12. ProjectorCentral has reviews, FAQs, etc. by Heffe+Llama · · Score: 4, Informative

    Great stuff available here:

    ProjectorCentral

    I've thought about this, and I wouldn't build my own for the same reason I won't put a DVR computer near my TV -- the fan noise and the esthetics.

  13. Similar question...how to get longer bulb life? by JoeShmoe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have several customers who desire big display screens (like how they always do in movies and TV) so they can monitor the status of certain things.

    Currently, we use a lot of old NEC 29" monitors which haven't been made in 10 years and are going away for good. I've talked about replacing them with rear-projection systems, by putting a cloth or plastic across the opening for the CRT and parking a projector behind it to display.

    There's just one problem...virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours". At $300/ea this is not going to work as a monitoring display. Plus, we can't really turn them off because if someone needs to look at it, you apparently can't just turn them back on until the cooldown cycle has finished.

    What's the solution here? Is there any way possible to use standard (read low cost) lighting in a projection system? I think these bulbs must be so costly and delicate because they have to fit in a tiny projection unit. If size/portability isn't an issue...what other options are there?

    Could I get a couple of 150watt incandenscent bulbs, throw them through a polarizing filter and shine them through, say a gutted laptop display? I seem to remember that back in the beginning of time (the early 90s) the only way to do LCD projection was to lay some kind of LCD panel over an existing off-the-shelf overhead projector. Do they still make these things? Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)

    This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.

    - JoeShmoe
    .

    --
    -- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
  14. Ebay can be expensive.... by rjelks · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think if you know what you are looking for, Ebay can be a good source....but, remember that those bulbs can cost a few hundred to replace. Homebrew could give you decent results. I'm not sure if you set up a nice room you'd want a homebrew in the theatre room. Computer projectors are getting cheaper ($1500.00 range these days) and might be a good solution, especially if you are thinking about a HTPC. If you are even close to the $3,000.00 mark, I'd start looking into some plasma or LCD displays. With flat panel displays getting cheaper, the prospect of a projection screen becomes less and less desireable to me. To be honest, if I were looking at over $1,000, I'd rather get a HDTV. I think most a/v geeks would be disappointed with the homebrew approach to projectors. If you like DIY projects though, it could be fun.

  15. HDTV is key by kajoob · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you're going to be projecting you're going to lose a little clarity, so make sure you get an HDTV projector like a refurbed Piano HE-3100 HDTV projector for about a grand. Also, don't skimp on the screen you get, I recommend the Luxus Deluxe Screenwall - it has great reflective properties and microperf so you can put your center channel directly behind the center of the screen for the ultimate movie effect! Hope that helps.

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
  16. my $2000 basement home theater by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative



    wanted an ht in my basement, where i can control the ambient light well.

    so I bought myself the sanyo plv-z1. vga/s-video/component inputs. decent brightness, contrast and resolution (yes, it supports hd). $1200 plus it came with a free 92" diag 16:9 screen.

    put another $800 into some very decent mid-range speakers and a/v receiver. now I've got the coolest home theater setup that most of my friends and neighbors have ever seen.

    everyone thinks i spent close to $10k, and their already dropped jaws hit the floor when i tell them it was 1/5th of that.

    also, a great resource for projector info can be found at http://www.projectorcentral.com.

  17. Depends on your tastes by boarder · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, the $300 will not work. Sure, they'll be able to play TV on the wall fine, but they'll look like ass. For normal res TV, you need at least 800x600 to look good. If you plan on playing DVDs or HDTV stuff, though, you need at least 1024x768. For true HD, though, 1280 is needed. All of the projectors will scale down a higher res image to their native res, but you don't want that. Also, most higher res stuff like DVD and HD are widescreen, but most lower end projectors are 4:3. Using those for widescreen wastes resolution and, from some things I've read, isn't good for the projector.

    You also need to worry about lumens depending on how dark your room is, lamp lifetime and cost, use for main TV or just a movie projector, fan noise, etc.

    I would suggest a high lumen, 1024x768 projector with a widescreen native lens. If you need HD and are concerned about image quality, go for the 1280 res ones. The jump in price is enormous, but you don't have to worry about scaling, and less worry about widescreen native lens.

    --
    IANAL, but I play one on /.
  18. Get an entry-level projector... by JMZero · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Like a Epson Powerlite S1 or an Infocus X1. The picture will be infinitely better than what you'd get from a homebrew. Don't even consider the homebrew thing. Really. I've seen a few (based on CRT's or overhead projectors and LCD panels) and they are really poor.

    Despite what videophile reviewers or salespeople will say, these entry-level projectors create a very impressive picture under any reasonable lighting conditions. And if you can't make your room reasonably dark (ie. reading should be uncomfortable) then you shouldn't be getting a projector.

    I have an Epson Powerlite S1 ($900 US) in my basement theatre. Nobody that has seen it has been anything other than extremely impressed with the picture - even my brother who has a $12000 projector. Admittedly the picture isn't perfect in a videophile sense (and there's no optical zoom, so you'll want to measure things out) - but it is really very good (and as big as my wall would allow - about 11' diagonal). I'm projecting onto matte white paint. Again, it works just fine. I use my computer in there, play GameCube, watch movies - it's just really great.

    Unless you're looking to spend a fair bit more than $900, you won't get something nearly as good as one of these two. You could try used, but I doubt you'll find as good a deal.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  19. A homemade projector will NOT do the job by dlleigh · · Score: 4, Informative

    In fact, you probably won't even like a commercial projector unless it's very dark in the room or the projector is very bright (read "very expensive").

    Front projection has a big gotcha. Notice how white your screen is? That's as black as the projected image can ever be. Any stray light really messes up the contrast.

    Rear projection can provide much better contrast, but the systems are much larger and heavier.

  20. Ongoing costs and daytime viewing by elitman · · Score: 5, Informative

    You're likely going to see many opinions in this thread, but here are - from my perspective - the most salient points from my experience.

    The first is the ongoing cost of maintenance. With any projection device, you'll need to occasionally replace the bulb - in many cases, this works out to a new bulb every 500-1000 hours. For my InFocus LP330, new bulbs cost me $150-200 each.

    The second point is daytime viewing. Light output of projectors is measured in lumens, with the higher the number representing higher light output. For daytime viewing, anything under 1000 lumens is essentially useless in all but the darkest of rooms. A good, reflective screen will help a bit, but if you're planning to put the projector in a room that gets a lot of sunlight, you'll want to either invest in a brighter projector or some black-out drapes for the room. The latter option may be less expensive.

  21. Results of my search by Teppy · · Score: 4, Informative

    I did the same thing recently. After much research, I concluded that the $1000 InFocus X1 was an especially good value: It uses DLP technology which doesn't burn-in if you play lots of games, and is quite bright (1100 Lumens). I just took a trip to their site, and see that they now have an X2 which ups the brightness a bit for the same price. They also don't rape you quite as bad as other companies for new bulbs. The only downside to this projector is the 800x600 resolution.

    BTW, on the subject of games - playing on one of these is videogame ecstasy. Definitely plan to invest in wireless controllers for each of your consoles.

  22. Re:No brainer by bobsled · · Score: 3, Informative

    I agree - we use InFocus projectors here at work (X1's can be had for around $925 online including shipping - check Pricewatch under "Presentation"... On those "movie nights" at work we run them off a laptop with audio piped into audio equipment we all bring in from home. Awesome picture - and a much better use of the equipment than it gets from the Marketing guys ;-)

    --
    Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code...
  23. Re:Slashdotted by Aero+Leviathan · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yes, and here is a link to the eBay search. Oh, and this is the submitter's website. Oh, and why not this here, it's a link to this very story!

    C'mon, if the parent deserves +3 informative, so do I!

    --
    ~ Aero
  24. Incorrect... by JMZero · · Score: 3, Informative

    virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours"

    Most new consumer projectors will have bulb lives of around 3000 hours. Many also feature low pressure bulbs that can be replaced for around $200. Are you sure you've researched this at all?

    This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.

    Again, this is overstated. If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years in most new consumer projectors.

    If you're the kind of person who watches more than 4 hours of TV a day, I indeed wouldn't recommend a projector. I'd recommend surgery.

    Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)

    There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting. There's probably lots of options available if you're willing to have a horrible picture - but I think I'd prefer to spend $100 a year on bulbs (assuming 4hr/day use).

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    1. Re:Incorrect... by JoeShmoe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most new consumer projectors will have bulb lives of around 3000 hours. Many also feature low pressure bulbs that can be replaced for around $200

      Dell 2100MP = 2000 hours = $379.98/bulb. That's an example of a consumer ranged projector. Maybe Dell is doing the "cheap razor, expensive blades" thing, but they certainly aren't alone. I'd love to hear an example of a projector with replacement bulbs that cost less than $200, although if the projector itself costs $6000 that may explain something.

      If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years

      Okay, so 20 hundred hours is technically two thousand, but...compare that to the 20000 hours you'll get from a fluorescent light source. Halogens (which I think is what these projectors use) run hot, and can be very delicate. I think they even have long-life incandesents that last 5000 or so.

      I doubt, serious doubt, that most people are going to get full life expectancy from their projection bulbs. Why else would they only be waranteed for 90 days when the projector itself is waranteed for a year or more? Maybe turning them on and off is stressful on the bulbs...in which case, are you going to get full life in any real world scenario?

      I'd like for someone to point out some real world data on bulb life before they make the blanket statement that someone trying to save a couple hundred dollars on a projection system for his home shouldn't worry about blowing the money saved the first year for a new bulb.

      There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting.

      My living room needs a lot of brightness and lighting. My car needs a lot of brightness and lighting. But I don't pay $200/bulb to keep either supplied. As I said, I think a significant portion of the cost is that they need a small package. I can buy a 500Watt halogen for my floor standing torch lamp for what...$20? That's got to be just about as bright as whatever's in your average consumer projector. So why does it cost $20 in a lamp and $200 in a projector. The bulb isn't doing anything technological! It's a light source, period.

      So, explain why I can't use a cheaper light source that is just as bright if I don't need it necessarily to fit into a itty bitty plastic case?

      - JoeShmoe
      .

      --
      -- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
    2. Re:Incorrect... by athorshak · · Score: 4, Informative

      My living room needs a lot of brightness and lighting. My car needs a lot of brightness and lighting. But I don't pay $200/bulb to keep either supplied. As I said, I think a significant portion of the cost is that they need a small package. I can buy a 500Watt halogen for my floor standing torch lamp for what...$20? That's got to be just about as bright as whatever's in your average consumer projector. So why does it cost $20 in a lamp and $200 in a projector. The bulb isn't doing anything technological! It's a light source, period.

      This is so completely uninformed it is reduculous. Its clear you have not actually researched the issue. There is a HUGE difference between your $20 floor lamp bulb and a projector bulb. There is quite a bit of engineering that goes into making projector bulbs because thay need a very specific spectra of output. Your floor lamp does not put out anything close to 6500k light (video standard). Put your lamp bulb in a projector and you will have a projector that will be impossible to calibrate to any sort of decent color balance.

    3. Re:Incorrect... by athorshak · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm not saying that projector bulb prices aren't inflated, but they are certainly a LONG way from your floor lamp analogy.

      So you only need to project 16 colors, do you really thing there is ANY market for a projector like that? Generally speaking a projector is going to cost at least $1000 or so, why would you spend that kind of money and put a cheap ass bulb in it that can't produce a good image?

      I never said the world was "married" to 6500k, only that is the video standard and most projectors at least try to offer something reasonably close to that.

      I've heard a GE engineer say that their projector bulbs cost about 10 times as much to produce than a regular lamp of the same wattage. Add this to the fact they they are shipped in a MUCH lower volume and walla, high price.

      If you want a crappy bulb for your projector, fine, but most of us want to get the best image possible. I'd be ecstatic if bulb prices came down significantly, but I won't pretend that its a simple issue where the manufacturer is simply ripping us off.

    4. Re:Incorrect... by system_trader · · Score: 5, Informative

      You wrote: "Your floor lamp does not put out anything close to 6500k light... Put your lamp bulb in a projector and you will have a projector that will be impossible to calibrate to any sort of decent color balance."

      That isn't the issue either.

      Flat panel fluorescent backlights and other technologies put out uniform light with great color balance. Furthermore, filters can be used to shape the source and adjust color balance.

      The issue is the compactness (light source density) being high enough yet proportionately sized with respect to the projecting and condensing lenses and the LCD/DLP imaging element. A big projector can use a bigger, cheaper light bulb given the same desired screen size.

    5. Re:Incorrect... by sylvandb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not saying that projector bulb prices aren't inflated, but they are certainly a LONG way from your floor lamp analogy.

      Really? OK, maybe his analogy ($20 for a 500w floor lamp bulb) which makes the projector bulb only 10x to 20x as expensive. But if he really pays anywhere near $20 for a simple 500w halogen bulb, he is getting taken.

      In reality, I buy 500w halogen bulbs for less than $1/ea, and they put out visually the same color of light as the $5-$10 GE bulbs and seem to last about the same hours (usually physical shock takes them out before the wear out). So you are telling me that something justifies 200x to 400x the price, which seems to be the typical range for the mid-grade LCD and DLP projectors? Or do you think 20x to 40x is justified, and the other 10x is just an "inflated" price?

      Given the science of light color in a halogen bulb, I find it nearly impossible to imagine any justification for a 200x to 400x price delta even if 10x or 100x of it was inflation. A halogen light isn't rocket science, is it? It wasn't when I was taking my stage lighting classes 20+ years ago...

      The bulb envelope must be quartz to withstand the heat, and the color of that quartz filters the color of light from the filament. The temperature of the filament determines the color it produces, and that temperature is primarily determined by the available current at the applied voltage. The halogen in the envelope helps the evaporating tungsten from the filament deposit back onto the filament instead of onto the envelope, but it isn't 100% effective so the envelope gradually darkens, and the filament develops a thin spot, and that leads to the death of the bulb.

      I wonder how much it would add to the cost of the projector to use a little sensor to detect the color of the light, and a bit of active control to adjust the current thru the filament to change the temperature?

      Of course it couldn't compensate 100% for flaws in a cheap bulb or the effects of bulb wear, but surely with $200 to $400 to play with, it could do a lot.

      sdb

  25. A quick breakdown by athorshak · · Score: 5, Informative

    As another poster mentioned, the best place to go is the AVSForum. However, here is a quick breakdown of your options.

    I would not suggest rolling a DIY projector, you will get much higher quality image from a basic manufactured unit. Entry level is around $1000 at the moment, a couple thousand for a native HD unit. (You can find cheaper stuff in the used market).

    There are four primary technologies being used in frong projecttion right now:

    LCD - Cheap, but generally considered a good value. Lower contrast and more screendoor than other technologies, but can still look pretty good. You can get a nice 1280x720 (720p) LCD projector for about $2000. Check out the Panasonic AE500 or the Sanyo Z2. Sony's HS20 is also nice for a little more money. Lesser expensive LCDs are available but generally throw relatively poor images (IMHO).

    DLP - Very popular right now. Generally provides a better picture than LCD. Limited to 720p for now. A true 16x9 HD DLP projector will run you more than an LCD. Probably looking at at around $4000 minimum to over $10000. The BenQ 8700 is a GREAT value at the moment. Lower priced DLPs are also available, all the way to $999 for the InFocus X1. These lower priced DLPs are generally not high-def and most 4x3, instead of 16x9. Use of an anamorphic lense can turn them into native 16x9 projectors, but adds cost and complexity.

    DLPs have the best contrast of current consumer projectors by a good margin. One thing to be carful of is that a some of people see rainbows or get headaches when watching DLPs. This is less of an issue on newer models with a faster color wheel, but may be an issue on less expensive models. Check out brands like BenQ, InFocus, NEC, Marantz, Dwin, Sim2 for good DLP projectors.

    LCOS - This is the technology of choice for JVC. It has lower contrast than DLP but throws a smoother image due to its higher fill-factor. Its often described as very "film-like". Can support higher resolutions than DLP for now. A lot of the current LCOS projectors are large and not very user friendly. There are some more players entering the LCOS market, including Sony, with a native 1080p device, but it quite expensive. I'm not quite as up-to-date on LCOS projectors as DLP and LCD, but its worth a look.

    CRT - The grandaddy of projection. CRT can throw a wonderful image, altough digitals are catching up quickly. Manufacturers aren't really making them anymore so most are found in the used market. They are big, HEAVY, and require lot s of maintenence. They are also generally dimmer than digitals.

  26. Some tips... by dafz1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I recently got an Infocus 4800, and here are some bits of advice.

    1. Get as much native resolution as you can, at least 1024 x 768.

    2. Don't get too crazy with lumens. The people who do installs say most projectors need between 600 and 800 lumens. The lower the lumens, the longer the bulb lasts.

    3. Make sure you buy one for the appropriate use. Some projectors are designed for conference rooms, so they are designed to make an image that doesn't change, much, look good. Some projectors are designed for home theaters, so their video processors are designed for constantly changing images.

    4. Inputs, Inputs, Inputs! Get one that has Component video-in plugs(not goofy adapters), S-Video, VGA, and DVI(it's becoming the standard video output). Also, make sure it supports progressive scan and 16:9 aspect ratio(almost all do).

    5. Get the best screen you can afford(see #8). I recommend either Da-Lite or Stewart.

    6. Cover any/all windows/light sources. The more ambient light, the more washed out the picture.

    7. Once you have it, buy a color calibration CD. It's a lot cheaper than having a professional come in and calibrate it, and you get great results.

    8. Make sure your room is big enough. The first row of seating(e.g. couch) should be no closer than 1.6 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. Any closer and you see every pixel(commonly called the "screen door effect").

    Also, someone mentioned rear projection. Don't go that way. Rear projection screens are almost 10x more expensive, and, since they are glass, are known to "prism" the image(the image changes as you get to more extreme viewing angles...with the light actualy being like from a prism).

  27. I have a projector by Mithrandur · · Score: 4, Informative

    I like it. I'm projecting on a white wall (no screen yet) from about 10 feet with a Dell 3300MP. It's ceiling-mounted. The image is 83 inches (4:3, diagonal, wide-angle limit). The color reproduction (even without a screen) is beautiful, and the image is very clean. You will need a progressive scan DVD player with a component video output. Images that large suffer greatly from the poor signal quality of composite video (I tried that first, it was bad enough that I couldn't even fully focus the player because the signal was blurry - still watchable though). I haven't tried S-video yet.

    I paid $1750 to Dell for the projector. It's a DLP rated at 1200 lumens, and with a native resolution of 1024x768, which is enough to play widescreen DVDs at 576p (which is better than DVDs put out) without "compression".

    Be careful with eBay projectors. The lamps cost a pretty penny (Like 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the projector), and the used ones may not have much lamp life left.

    Also: be sure that your lifestyle fits a projector. The room needs to be dark (with my setup at least). You can't watch a movie and do something with your hands, like my wife sometimes does, without a desk lamp, and that affects the projector's image quality.

    I imagine that a screen will help a lot, but I'm not there yet. I'll probably buy something inexpensive from Draper in the next few months.

    --
    vi is my shepard, I shall not font.
  28. things to consider by bigmo · · Score: 3, Informative

    You should be able to get a decent projector for $1500 - $3000 depending on what your tastes are. The most important thing is to actually look at lots of projectors in stores that are showing what you want to watch, whether it be broadcast sports, widescreen DVD movies, or computer games. Don't get a used one, save up for another few months and buy a new one. New bulbs cost $300-$600 and the brightness drops drastically after about half the bulbs rated life (the rated life varies a lot, but a bulb should last a couple years unless you never leave your house ...

    If you're only interested in regular video, not computer projection or HDTV, the resolution of the projector is a red herring. If not, get a 1024x768 res unit.

    Most people seem to think DLP style projectors have a better video image and LCD style projectors have a better computer image. LCD styles have a very high black level (a black image is dark gray on the screen) whereas DLP have a nice black. Again, this is more important for video than computer images. Just remember a good LCD projector is going to look better than a fair DLP projector no matter what, so use your eyes when shopping.

    Don't get anything with less than 1000 lumens brightness. Around 1500 is probably OK for up to a 5' wide screen if you don't keep the lights up too high. Much more than 2000 is probably wasted unless you have a very big screen or want to use it somewhere in addition to your living room.

    HDTV is hard to figure out. Many projectors say they handle it, but it's usually scan converted down inside the projector since 1080i is a bit over 1900 pixels wide and even 720p is 1280 pixels wide, so unless you have at least a 1280x1024 projector, the whole HDTV thing is a little bit of a sales con. If HD is important to you, you should look at the higher resolution units. As I said, look at it in the store. If it looks good to you, that's all that matters.

    Good luck, I wish I could afford one ...

  29. Insurance Chasing by decipher_saint · · Score: 3, Informative

    If a bar in your area gets shut down see if they have an auction or find out what liquidation place they use to sell off the old equipment. I know more than one guy who's gotten a good (but old) projector (that's not the expensive part) and a half-decent screen (that can be the expensive part).

    Of course, you have to keep your ear to the ground...

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
  30. Obligatory penny-arcade ripoff by IthnkImParanoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    "This $30,000 projector has better picture quality than yours."

    "Oh yeah? My picture is awesome, since it's framed by $28,000 dollars in cash."

    --
    It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
  31. Yep, by far, the X1 is the best entry level by laddhebert · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I agree. By far the Infocus X1 and all of the relabled versions are the best sub $1000 projectors out there.

    What a lot of people don't realize is that it is also better than a lot of the more expensive projectors out there also. It has great contrast and the colors look superb. What this long throw projector lacks in some people's eyes is its resolution: 800x600 . But guess what, unless you're watching HD signals (720p/1080i/p) , you won't notice a thing. Sure you might not get a great picture when you hook your PC up to it, but the reader asked for a home theater projector and the last I checked there were just a few HD DVD players, and even fewer movies that supported HD quality resolutions.

    Also, it will take the higher resolution signals (which only work through its vga port - grab the component break out cable from the Infocus website) and scale them the approriate resolution. The projector has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer (see http://www.dcdi-video.com/technology/articles/sage -dcdi-overview.html for more explanation) also, which happens to be one of the best DCDi chips out there.

    The best place to get started with an X1 is to check out the very, very informative X1 FAQ by technet at http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/

    Based on research, I was able to build my own home theater using the X1 for cheaper than the big screen rear projector TV I bought and returned because of a crummy picture and scratch on the screen. For around 2k I built the home theater which included: the X1, the sound system (onkyo) , the dvd player, the paint for the walls, and the material to build the screen. Send me a private message for pics.

    -L

    --
    Don't Panic.
  32. Bulb life shouldn't be a problem for most people by slobber · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I love how everyone seems to be bitchin' and moanin' about projector's limited bulb life. I was worried about it too when I was choosing my projector but then did some math and calmed down.

    The bulb life on my Sony VPL-HS20 is 3000 hours in "cinema mode". I figure that with my schedule I won't be able to watch more than 1 hour per day (aside from an occasional LOR marathon). So that gives me a whooping 3,000 days before bulb goes caput. That's over 8 friggin' years! I figure that in eight years technology will advance so far that instead of spending $$$ on a new bulb I'll get a new projector or whatever the imaging device de la creme will be. (300dpi wall-to-wall imaging nanopaper, anyone?)

    As for people saying that projectors are expesnive, I have to disagree. I get an eyepopping 120" diag. image for under $3K. Even if plasma screen of this size existed, it would probably cost over $100K. Of course, a nice Home Theater PC that is hooked up to the projector through DVI and an excellent 120" sceeen from Carada.com cost me an extra 1.5K, it is still a bargain. The only drawback is that the room has to be relatively dark, but this is not a problem in my case because it is in the basement.

    --
    "You mortals are so obtuse." -Q
  33. A family example by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 5, Informative

    My uncle is a movie-techno-geek from a long way back, and recently set up just such a system. He found two things that needed adjusting.

    The first was that these projectors are designed for computer presentations in large rooms, so the light was ridiculously bright for DVDs and such in a home theater. Solution: a neutral density filter between the optics and the screen.

    The second was that the colour temperature was much too high (too blue). Solution: a warming filter. It's a very pale rose pink colour. People don't look like aliens anymore.

    The results are striking. I'm tempted myself.

    ...laura

  34. The facts in a few paragraphs by telemonster · · Score: 3, Informative

    First off, I own a Sony VPH-1278Q. Paid $1350 for it from eBay seller BPAI in Maryland, went and picked it up in person.

    LCD and DLP projectors are compact, lightweight, and portable. Bright images from a small unit. Bulb costs are high, and the color intensity changes with the bulb life. Fixed resolution for the panels, there are widescreen units availible. Screen cannot do true black, there is always illumination even when the screen is "black"

    CRT projectors are bulky, a pain in the ass to setup (you have to converge all 3 guns together). The 1278Q can do 1280x1024 I believe, but I run it from a HTPC @ 1024x768. Mine generates some noise, I could take efforts to silence it but it doesn't bother me.

    CRT life can hit 8000 hours, the blue is the first to go. Static images burn in on CRT projectors, DLP/LCD don't suffer from this issue. CRT can do true black, all power to guns is cut and the screen is dark. CRT's are also known to have a hotness in the color when there is just a tiny bit, that is if there is just a little bit of red then it will be over-emphasised a bit because it takes a certain amount of power to fire the CRT (I haven't noticed this, this is from what I've read).

    The CRT projector prices are falling, BUT ****BEWARE**** because many of the units on the surplus market are from corporate use, where they have been abused. Windows NT login splash burned into the display, etc. Be careful about this!!! There are hour counters on CRT projectors, mine had about 2200 hours on it when I bought it. I noticed some 4:3 browning but it didn't have any effect as it was outside of my projection area.

    There is a bit more info on my web page above.

    People balk at the size of my projector and start to talk about something they saw at SAMS club for xyz. There is much more to it than just point and shoot.

    --
    Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
  35. be extremely careful about lighting by johne417 · · Score: 3, Informative

    A note to the author or anyone else considering a front projector for home theater: be very very wary of lighting conditions. If you have, say, a dedicated home theater in a basement room with no windows, or any other type of situation where you can completely control your environment, front projectors may very well be the best option (man, that adjustable screen is cool!). But any sort of ambient light at all is going to make you extremely unhappy with the picture. Home theater projectors are far different from computer-based video projectors in this sense. DLP is as bright as front projectors come, and it's still not good at all in a room with ambient light. And I'm not just a videophile being picky. Go to an Ultimate Electronics or if you're lucky enough to have a Magnolia around, go there, and demo one out, asking the sales rep for a small amount of light in the room. Decide for yourself. These things aren't for living rooms, or any room with a window, or somewhere where the next room over will frequently have a light on, etc... But that being said, in a completely controlled environment, front projectors rock. And the engineer in original post should build his own, to satisfy his own curiosity and because that's just damn cool.

  36. Infocus X1 vs. BenQ 6100? by JonToycrafter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Can anyone tell me why I should get an Infocus versus the BenQ 6100? The BenQ seems to sell better, is about the same price, and lighter. The light lasts longer, and is warranteed for an extra year.

    I would be using it for weekly film nights (VHS/DVD), and occasionally for video art installations. I'm not concerned with HDTV, PC resolution, etc. I'm really wondering if there's some problem I'm not considering (fan noise? Lens quality?). Price is my main concern - I wouldn't even by considering one if they weren't in the $800-850 range.

    Any advice would be helpful!

  37. Re:Screen door?? by BRock97 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I thought you could only get the "screen door" effect with an LCD - where you could see lines in-between the pixels (thus the term "screen door"). I think the effect you mention is just the case of having only so many pixels, but is not "screen door".

    Actually, it will affect both. Since both systems are pixel based, you can see the little squares that make up the image. DLP is less affected by it, as seen at this link.

    --

    Bryan R.
    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
  38. From one EE to another by NoseBag · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a (retired) EE at age 51, I've built a lot of projects. I learned a long time ago to ask myself the following question before any home project starts:

    Do I want to HAVE it, or do I want to BUILD it.

    Saved myself a lot of work that way.

    --
    Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
  39. Notes on the VPL-HS20 by sydlexic · · Score: 4, Informative

    A few points about the HS20 from personal experience. It *does* have amazing image quality and resolution.

    But...

    I went through three brand new HS20's (all sent back to Sony) before giving up on it. They all suffered from the same problem which was an inconsistent color temperature. For example, with a white screen, the lower left corner was pinkish and the top right was bluish. All three exhibited this behavior. I could get the same effect on a black screen with no inputs, so it was not my input. It seemed like a manufacturing defect with one or more of the panels being "pinched".

    Second, the color registration on the three panels was never spot on and it's not adjustable. So the crosshair in the middle of the screen was white, but all the others had blue or red fringes.

    Third, I wanted an all digital system. This projector has DVI input which is sweet. Unfortunately, at the native resolution of the panels (16x9 at 1388x768), it only accepts a refresh of 56.6Hz. That means movies show a slight jerkiness since the frame refresh does not sync up with output of the computer. Using a lower resolution results in blurring and scaling of the image inside of the projector which totally negates the point of a pure digital picture (and letting the computer handle scaling, etc). It also makes for a crappy desktop.

    Sony also refuses to divulge any info about supported display modes. One support idiot claimed that connecting a PC to the projector via DVI was not supported and could damage the projector or PC. Sometimes Sony's proprietary ways are a little too much to bear.

    I owned the previous generation of VPL Sony home theater projectors and they did not exhibit these problems (color and alignemnt). I'm hoping these flaws are fixed because it's an otherwise amazing piece of hardware.

  40. Toshiba TLP S30 by Tedium+Unleased · · Score: 3, Informative

    Cost me about $1200, bought offline. Looks like you may be able to get it cheaper now. I've had mine for almost a year. 100+ operating hours. Playing XBox, Dreamcast and DVDs. Hooked up my laptop a few times and for some reason, it worked above 800x600 resolution. I believe my laptop is set to 1024x768. Why it still worked I have no idea, but it looked great.

    I may have spent too much - maybe I could have gone with one of these $300 projectors. I didn't know there were $300 projectors at the time.

    I keep my projector about 8-10 feet from a wall, used paper from an artstore to line the wall. You could guess I'm not an A/V nut. I used an old pair of powered computer speakers w/ subwoof that is plenty good enough for me. I have no idea what the ratings are, and the speakers are placed behind me when I watch movies - which one person found a little strange. I have the speakers facing at the back wall, and it doesn't bother me one bit that the sound doesn't come from the wall - either I don't notice it, or it does end up coming from the screen-wall enough that I don't care. My cats consantly knock over the speakers and I don't even bother to pick them up.. so my advice on audio should be taken with a grain of salt; though I am a musician, if that means anything.

    At 8-10 feet the image is about 8' diagonally. Wide screen, full screen, computer screen, whatever - doesn't matter it looks good. I would work off of it as a desktop to work with apps - but I loaded Warcraft 3 on the laptop and it looked great. Actually - I think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast looks better than Soul Calibur 2 on XBox, on the projector.

    Maybe the novelty hasn't worn off yet - but I think this is one of the best purchases I've made. It turns every crappy game and crappy movie into something decent - because hey - it's freakin huge!