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Video Projector for Home Theater?
ZeLonewolf writes "I'm thinking about setting up a movie-style home theater system. I've already got the room set up and I've obtained a nice sound system. The last step is to acquire a video projector. I'm considering a few options: Projectors on eBay run from $300 to the tens of thousands. On the other hand, being an electrical engineer, there are plans online to build your own (Google cache), that are potentially as cheap as $200. What are Slashdotters' experiences? Will a $300 projector do the job? How about a home brew?"
Get thee over to http://www.avsforum.com and you'll find your answers.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Link to a Yahoo group, and their bandwidth is exceeded even before the story is posted. Niiiice...
The "homebrew" ones are a joke if you want something with a decent picture. And the contraption itself looks riduculous. Forget it.
There is a good deal on a refurbed DLP projector for about $3500 -- check gotapex.com (great site for deals). Read around for more info on what DLP is, but that and LCD are preferable to CRT projectors these days.
Anyway, you're more likely to get better information from someplace that deals directly with home theater equipment. The forum at Home Theater Spot has great information, despite their gestapo posting rules.
I did this same research and with projectors, you do get what you paid for. Rear projection will be brighter and more suiteable for home situations due to lighting. Just my 2c...
Not to be curmudgeonly, but why the hell even *bother* posting a link to geocities on slashdot? Hello? Anybody?
Plus I have a 5-star rating and ship super fast so go right ahead a click in that bid.
A projector for home theater is a no brainer IMHO. A relative of mine has an Infocus X1 projector with 100" screen.. Blows away any TV several times the price..
DIY though?? I don't see that happening for some reason?
Getting them from E-bay might not be a good idea, remember that the lightbulb has a limited number of hours before the light strenght is reduced and it finally breaks.
Anybody have an alternate site? I found this one on google.
Any generalization is a stupid one.
a $300 projector will more likely than not have poor quality and have faults within a year, there is a reason that good quality projecters are priced so highly. I have only expierenced bad quality when i have used cheap projectors on my projects, so i would recommend buying new from a top retailer such as Sony, and see how it suits you. And if you don't like it / it has faults you can return it with warranty
Business Voyeur
I was looking into projectors as well, but discovered a big drawback: the bulbs are good for about 2000 hours and then run about $350 (on average) for a new one. That's a lot of money every couple of years...
--- Usually, those that believe in absolutes are ignorant, fools, or both.
He has a projector that's actually near the bottom of the line (~$1500), and he's really happy with it. Projects a nice 100" image or so, and though it's not as good quality (I'm sure) as a $30,000 projector, it does save him $28,500...
I've seen it, BTW, and I think it's not worth it to spend more. But check it out for yourself at various AV stores.
My father in law works at Texas Instruments and got ahold of one of those DLP projectors. Holy moly, that thing looks GREAT. We watched Two Towers on it, and he had put up a simple white sheet on the wall to watch the movie on. It looked very nice, like a smaller movie projection. Colors are extremely bright; I'd been so used to projectors losing brightness proportional to their distance that the brightness of this thing took me by surprise.
Plus those DLP chips are just so freakin' cool.
Picked up an Epson S1 ($800-$999) after looking into making my own and adding up the hours it might take (way too much). So far I have been very pleased with it. I have it plugged into a old pc/tv tuner and it works great for daily usage and the bulbs are cheap ($150 Street). I was too lazy to make or purchase a screen so the wall with the white lead paint will do for now.... ;-)
I found this site to be very helpfull when picking out a projector.
http://www.projectorcentral.com
EA David Gardner -"... but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Why not go with the real thing? Super 8 all the way!
sulli
RTFJ.
Great stuff available here:
ProjectorCentral
I've thought about this, and I wouldn't build my own for the same reason I won't put a DVR computer near my TV -- the fan noise and the esthetics.
I have several customers who desire big display screens (like how they always do in movies and TV) so they can monitor the status of certain things.
Currently, we use a lot of old NEC 29" monitors which haven't been made in 10 years and are going away for good. I've talked about replacing them with rear-projection systems, by putting a cloth or plastic across the opening for the CRT and parking a projector behind it to display.
There's just one problem...virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours". At $300/ea this is not going to work as a monitoring display. Plus, we can't really turn them off because if someone needs to look at it, you apparently can't just turn them back on until the cooldown cycle has finished.
What's the solution here? Is there any way possible to use standard (read low cost) lighting in a projection system? I think these bulbs must be so costly and delicate because they have to fit in a tiny projection unit. If size/portability isn't an issue...what other options are there?
Could I get a couple of 150watt incandenscent bulbs, throw them through a polarizing filter and shine them through, say a gutted laptop display? I seem to remember that back in the beginning of time (the early 90s) the only way to do LCD projection was to lay some kind of LCD panel over an existing off-the-shelf overhead projector. Do they still make these things? Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
I think if you know what you are looking for, Ebay can be a good source....but, remember that those bulbs can cost a few hundred to replace. Homebrew could give you decent results. I'm not sure if you set up a nice room you'd want a homebrew in the theatre room. Computer projectors are getting cheaper ($1500.00 range these days) and might be a good solution, especially if you are thinking about a HTPC. If you are even close to the $3,000.00 mark, I'd start looking into some plasma or LCD displays. With flat panel displays getting cheaper, the prospect of a projection screen becomes less and less desireable to me. To be honest, if I were looking at over $1,000, I'd rather get a HDTV. I think most a/v geeks would be disappointed with the homebrew approach to projectors. If you like DIY projects though, it could be fun.
Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
If you're going to be projecting you're going to lose a little clarity, so make sure you get an HDTV projector like a refurbed Piano HE-3100 HDTV projector for about a grand. Also, don't skimp on the screen you get, I recommend the Luxus Deluxe Screenwall - it has great reflective properties and microperf so you can put your center channel directly behind the center of the screen for the ultimate movie effect! Hope that helps.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Here's a link to the google cache of the geocities site. You'd think an EE would have more sense than this.
Doesn't appear the site has anything useful anyway. I'd say go with a $500 - ~1k$ unit, if you can afford it. They seem to be of high enough quality for my liking, and should be able to get a good enough picture at a sufficient resolution for anyone but the most anal.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
wanted an ht in my basement, where i can control the ambient light well.
so I bought myself the sanyo plv-z1. vga/s-video/component inputs. decent brightness, contrast and resolution (yes, it supports hd). $1200 plus it came with a free 92" diag 16:9 screen.
put another $800 into some very decent mid-range speakers and a/v receiver. now I've got the coolest home theater setup that most of my friends and neighbors have ever seen.
everyone thinks i spent close to $10k, and their already dropped jaws hit the floor when i tell them it was 1/5th of that.
also, a great resource for projector info can be found at http://www.projectorcentral.com.
No, the $300 will not work. Sure, they'll be able to play TV on the wall fine, but they'll look like ass. For normal res TV, you need at least 800x600 to look good. If you plan on playing DVDs or HDTV stuff, though, you need at least 1024x768. For true HD, though, 1280 is needed. All of the projectors will scale down a higher res image to their native res, but you don't want that. Also, most higher res stuff like DVD and HD are widescreen, but most lower end projectors are 4:3. Using those for widescreen wastes resolution and, from some things I've read, isn't good for the projector.
You also need to worry about lumens depending on how dark your room is, lamp lifetime and cost, use for main TV or just a movie projector, fan noise, etc.
I would suggest a high lumen, 1024x768 projector with a widescreen native lens. If you need HD and are concerned about image quality, go for the 1280 res ones. The jump in price is enormous, but you don't have to worry about scaling, and less worry about widescreen native lens.
IANAL, but I play one on
Like a Epson Powerlite S1 or an Infocus X1. The picture will be infinitely better than what you'd get from a homebrew. Don't even consider the homebrew thing. Really. I've seen a few (based on CRT's or overhead projectors and LCD panels) and they are really poor.
Despite what videophile reviewers or salespeople will say, these entry-level projectors create a very impressive picture under any reasonable lighting conditions. And if you can't make your room reasonably dark (ie. reading should be uncomfortable) then you shouldn't be getting a projector.
I have an Epson Powerlite S1 ($900 US) in my basement theatre. Nobody that has seen it has been anything other than extremely impressed with the picture - even my brother who has a $12000 projector. Admittedly the picture isn't perfect in a videophile sense (and there's no optical zoom, so you'll want to measure things out) - but it is really very good (and as big as my wall would allow - about 11' diagonal). I'm projecting onto matte white paint. Again, it works just fine. I use my computer in there, play GameCube, watch movies - it's just really great.
Unless you're looking to spend a fair bit more than $900, you won't get something nearly as good as one of these two. You could try used, but I doubt you'll find as good a deal.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
In fact, you probably won't even like a commercial projector unless it's very dark in the room or the projector is very bright (read "very expensive").
Front projection has a big gotcha. Notice how white your screen is? That's as black as the projected image can ever be. Any stray light really messes up the contrast.
Rear projection can provide much better contrast, but the systems are much larger and heavier.
I think a homebrew would do well in this situation. My personal favorites are stouts and Belgian dubbel ales, though you may find another style that -- oh, we're talking about projectors!
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
$1500 is about the entry price for DLP HD projectors (retail), iirc. a $300 projector.. is not going to look any better than a $300 tv.. and might look worse.
/before/ you buy it. any of the DLP projectors should yield very nice results.
I would suggest demo'ing whatever you go with,
You're likely going to see many opinions in this thread, but here are - from my perspective - the most salient points from my experience.
The first is the ongoing cost of maintenance. With any projection device, you'll need to occasionally replace the bulb - in many cases, this works out to a new bulb every 500-1000 hours. For my InFocus LP330, new bulbs cost me $150-200 each.
The second point is daytime viewing. Light output of projectors is measured in lumens, with the higher the number representing higher light output. For daytime viewing, anything under 1000 lumens is essentially useless in all but the darkest of rooms. A good, reflective screen will help a bit, but if you're planning to put the projector in a room that gets a lot of sunlight, you'll want to either invest in a brighter projector or some black-out drapes for the room. The latter option may be less expensive.
I picked up a overhead projector and one of those LCD screens, and I got watchable results for a meager $150. You can make it brighter by using a metal halide as a light source and a lens instead of the overhead projector, though that will run another $50-70. As good as homebrews are, they can never beat commercial ones in terms of color and quality. The best images I've heard of come from DLP's. The problem with any commercial projectors is that bulbs are really expensive ($300-400 a pop). This forum has a lot of good information, as well as homebrew results.
You'll be a lot happier with a bottom of the line projector than anything home-brew... especially if you're talking about a modern DLP projector. Much has been done in the last couple years to improve the quality of projectors-- take advantage of it.
I recommend scouring ebay-- take your time-- for a good deal on a projector manufactured in the last year or two. They retail at about a grand to start, so $300-500 on ebay should be possible.
jrjBlog
I did the same thing recently. After much research, I concluded that the $1000 InFocus X1 was an especially good value: It uses DLP technology which doesn't burn-in if you play lots of games, and is quite bright (1100 Lumens). I just took a trip to their site, and see that they now have an X2 which ups the brightness a bit for the same price. They also don't rape you quite as bad as other companies for new bulbs. The only downside to this projector is the 800x600 resolution.
BTW, on the subject of games - playing on one of these is videogame ecstasy. Definitely plan to invest in wireless controllers for each of your consoles.
I'm doing this at my house, and my living room isn't that big. I bought a Benq pb6100 new for this. It's only 800x600 but it's 1500 lumen and DLP. It looks nice in my opinion, and they only run $1000-1200 new. It also has an economy mode that lets you squeeze 3000 hours out of the lamp. I use a light grey 73" pulldown window shade from lowes for a screen though, and i've never had a problem with room lights, and the grey offers great contrast. Just my two cents
Yes, and here is a link to the eBay search. Oh, and this is the submitter's website. Oh, and why not this here, it's a link to this very story!
C'mon, if the parent deserves +3 informative, so do I!
~ Aero
virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours"
Most new consumer projectors will have bulb lives of around 3000 hours. Many also feature low pressure bulbs that can be replaced for around $200. Are you sure you've researched this at all?
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
Again, this is overstated. If you used your projector for 4 hours a day (and I don't know anyone who would do this), one bulb would last about two years in most new consumer projectors.
If you're the kind of person who watches more than 4 hours of TV a day, I indeed wouldn't recommend a projector. I'd recommend surgery.
Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
There's a reason projectors (overhead or video) use fancy bulbs. They need lots of brightness and even lighting. There's probably lots of options available if you're willing to have a horrible picture - but I think I'd prefer to spend $100 a year on bulbs (assuming 4hr/day use).
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
As another poster mentioned, the best place to go is the AVSForum. However, here is a quick breakdown of your options.
I would not suggest rolling a DIY projector, you will get much higher quality image from a basic manufactured unit. Entry level is around $1000 at the moment, a couple thousand for a native HD unit. (You can find cheaper stuff in the used market).
There are four primary technologies being used in frong projecttion right now:
LCD - Cheap, but generally considered a good value. Lower contrast and more screendoor than other technologies, but can still look pretty good. You can get a nice 1280x720 (720p) LCD projector for about $2000. Check out the Panasonic AE500 or the Sanyo Z2. Sony's HS20 is also nice for a little more money. Lesser expensive LCDs are available but generally throw relatively poor images (IMHO).
DLP - Very popular right now. Generally provides a better picture than LCD. Limited to 720p for now. A true 16x9 HD DLP projector will run you more than an LCD. Probably looking at at around $4000 minimum to over $10000. The BenQ 8700 is a GREAT value at the moment. Lower priced DLPs are also available, all the way to $999 for the InFocus X1. These lower priced DLPs are generally not high-def and most 4x3, instead of 16x9. Use of an anamorphic lense can turn them into native 16x9 projectors, but adds cost and complexity.
DLPs have the best contrast of current consumer projectors by a good margin. One thing to be carful of is that a some of people see rainbows or get headaches when watching DLPs. This is less of an issue on newer models with a faster color wheel, but may be an issue on less expensive models. Check out brands like BenQ, InFocus, NEC, Marantz, Dwin, Sim2 for good DLP projectors.
LCOS - This is the technology of choice for JVC. It has lower contrast than DLP but throws a smoother image due to its higher fill-factor. Its often described as very "film-like". Can support higher resolutions than DLP for now. A lot of the current LCOS projectors are large and not very user friendly. There are some more players entering the LCOS market, including Sony, with a native 1080p device, but it quite expensive. I'm not quite as up-to-date on LCOS projectors as DLP and LCD, but its worth a look.
CRT - The grandaddy of projection. CRT can throw a wonderful image, altough digitals are catching up quickly. Manufacturers aren't really making them anymore so most are found in the used market. They are big, HEAVY, and require lot s of maintenence. They are also generally dimmer than digitals.
- At 800x600 resolution you can visibly see the pixels. There are visible gridlines with on a 120' screen if you stand about 3 feet away. People who visit mainly don't notice it though.
- You'll need an absolutely dark room to watch it during the day with good quality. Plan to buy heavy drapes for any offending windows.
- Not enough inputs. My projector uses the VGA connector and a dongle to connect Component video. This sucks if you want to hook your computer up along with your AV equipment. Map out your input needs before shopping, or you'll end up buying an expensive receiver to manage it all.
And a couple words of caution on projectors in general:- The fans can be rather loud. If you plan to have it sitting right next to you, plan on having the stereo up. The DB level is somewhat higher than your average computer.
- Plan to buy new lamps on a yearly basis. My projector lamp is rated at 2000 hours, and it will actually visibly start to dim at about 75% that. Lamps usually cost several hundred dollars. This would be a big concern with eBay stuff.
- If you have a nice clean wall with a slightly irregular surface, don't bother with a screen. I spent $300 and my wall still looks better (although it does brighten up the picture in the daytime).
All in all, I will never ever buy a TV again. My $900 projector has a bigger/better picture than any $1000 TV. Next time I buy though, I'll go for more lumens, higher resolution, and seperate component and VGA inputs.The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
I recently got an Infocus 4800, and here are some bits of advice.
1. Get as much native resolution as you can, at least 1024 x 768.
2. Don't get too crazy with lumens. The people who do installs say most projectors need between 600 and 800 lumens. The lower the lumens, the longer the bulb lasts.
3. Make sure you buy one for the appropriate use. Some projectors are designed for conference rooms, so they are designed to make an image that doesn't change, much, look good. Some projectors are designed for home theaters, so their video processors are designed for constantly changing images.
4. Inputs, Inputs, Inputs! Get one that has Component video-in plugs(not goofy adapters), S-Video, VGA, and DVI(it's becoming the standard video output). Also, make sure it supports progressive scan and 16:9 aspect ratio(almost all do).
5. Get the best screen you can afford(see #8). I recommend either Da-Lite or Stewart.
6. Cover any/all windows/light sources. The more ambient light, the more washed out the picture.
7. Once you have it, buy a color calibration CD. It's a lot cheaper than having a professional come in and calibrate it, and you get great results.
8. Make sure your room is big enough. The first row of seating(e.g. couch) should be no closer than 1.6 times the diagonal measurement of the screen. Any closer and you see every pixel(commonly called the "screen door effect").
Also, someone mentioned rear projection. Don't go that way. Rear projection screens are almost 10x more expensive, and, since they are glass, are known to "prism" the image(the image changes as you get to more extreme viewing angles...with the light actualy being like from a prism).
I like it. I'm projecting on a white wall (no screen yet) from about 10 feet with a Dell 3300MP. It's ceiling-mounted. The image is 83 inches (4:3, diagonal, wide-angle limit). The color reproduction (even without a screen) is beautiful, and the image is very clean. You will need a progressive scan DVD player with a component video output. Images that large suffer greatly from the poor signal quality of composite video (I tried that first, it was bad enough that I couldn't even fully focus the player because the signal was blurry - still watchable though). I haven't tried S-video yet.
I paid $1750 to Dell for the projector. It's a DLP rated at 1200 lumens, and with a native resolution of 1024x768, which is enough to play widescreen DVDs at 576p (which is better than DVDs put out) without "compression".
Be careful with eBay projectors. The lamps cost a pretty penny (Like 1/4 to 1/2 the cost of the projector), and the used ones may not have much lamp life left.
Also: be sure that your lifestyle fits a projector. The room needs to be dark (with my setup at least). You can't watch a movie and do something with your hands, like my wife sometimes does, without a desk lamp, and that affects the projector's image quality.
I imagine that a screen will help a lot, but I'm not there yet. I'll probably buy something inexpensive from Draper in the next few months.
vi is my shepard, I shall not font.
You should be able to get a decent projector for $1500 - $3000 depending on what your tastes are. The most important thing is to actually look at lots of projectors in stores that are showing what you want to watch, whether it be broadcast sports, widescreen DVD movies, or computer games. Don't get a used one, save up for another few months and buy a new one. New bulbs cost $300-$600 and the brightness drops drastically after about half the bulbs rated life (the rated life varies a lot, but a bulb should last a couple years unless you never leave your house ...
...
If you're only interested in regular video, not computer projection or HDTV, the resolution of the projector is a red herring. If not, get a 1024x768 res unit.
Most people seem to think DLP style projectors have a better video image and LCD style projectors have a better computer image. LCD styles have a very high black level (a black image is dark gray on the screen) whereas DLP have a nice black. Again, this is more important for video than computer images. Just remember a good LCD projector is going to look better than a fair DLP projector no matter what, so use your eyes when shopping.
Don't get anything with less than 1000 lumens brightness. Around 1500 is probably OK for up to a 5' wide screen if you don't keep the lights up too high. Much more than 2000 is probably wasted unless you have a very big screen or want to use it somewhere in addition to your living room.
HDTV is hard to figure out. Many projectors say they handle it, but it's usually scan converted down inside the projector since 1080i is a bit over 1900 pixels wide and even 720p is 1280 pixels wide, so unless you have at least a 1280x1024 projector, the whole HDTV thing is a little bit of a sales con. If HD is important to you, you should look at the higher resolution units. As I said, look at it in the store. If it looks good to you, that's all that matters.
Good luck, I wish I could afford one
After a lot of research. I came to the conclusion that a projector makes sense if you want a huge image but don't have the room for a massive TV.
e lLanding/0,10 58,1055,00.html
This is what I was looking for when I started shopping:
1) multiple inputs ( s-video, rca video, vga ) I did component input via a component to vga cable (bought 75' online whereas the official sharp cable was $50 for 15' of cable.
2) Small ( not enough room in our family room for a big LCD TV, plus the room is on the 2nd floor. )
3) Support for HDTV resolutions ( i just use 480p for DVD movies now )
4) under $1500 - i didn't want to spend more because of the cost of bulbs. Still, factoring in that I'll replace the bulb in a couple of years I've still spent less than a decent LCD tv. Also, I had to budget for buying a home theatre receiver and speakers.
We don't use the projector for everyday tv watching, but its AWESOME to throw up a huge image across the wall for movies and video games (mario kart & rogue squadron ).
Product Info ( i don't work for sharp, own their stock, I just bought the projector):
http://www.sharpusa.com/products/Mod
If a bar in your area gets shut down see if they have an auction or find out what liquidation place they use to sell off the old equipment. I know more than one guy who's gotten a good (but old) projector (that's not the expensive part) and a half-decent screen (that can be the expensive part).
Of course, you have to keep your ear to the ground...
crazy dynamite monkey
"This $30,000 projector has better picture quality than yours."
"Oh yeah? My picture is awesome, since it's framed by $28,000 dollars in cash."
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
What a lot of people don't realize is that it is also better than a lot of the more expensive projectors out there also. It has great contrast and the colors look superb. What this long throw projector lacks in some people's eyes is its resolution: 800x600 . But guess what, unless you're watching HD signals (720p/1080i/p) , you won't notice a thing. Sure you might not get a great picture when you hook your PC up to it, but the reader asked for a home theater projector and the last I checked there were just a few HD DVD players, and even fewer movies that supported HD quality resolutions.
Also, it will take the higher resolution signals (which only work through its vga port - grab the component break out cable from the Infocus website) and scale them the approriate resolution. The projector has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer (see http://www.dcdi-video.com/technology/articles/sage -dcdi-overview.html for more explanation) also, which happens to be one of the best DCDi chips out there.
The best place to get started with an X1 is to check out the very, very informative X1 FAQ by technet at http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/
Based on research, I was able to build my own home theater using the X1 for cheaper than the big screen rear projector TV I bought and returned because of a crummy picture and scratch on the screen. For around 2k I built the home theater which included: the X1, the sound system (onkyo) , the dvd player, the paint for the walls, and the material to build the screen. Send me a private message for pics.
-LDon't Panic.
- Bulb life is always and issue. Most are rated up to around 8000 hours (if you watched six hours a day, it would wash out to about 3.5 years). When you need to replace that bulb, it will set you back another $400-$500.
- They don't offer true HD resolutions. 1386 x 788 is about as high as they go which will resolve 720p just fine. But, that means 1080i would need to be down converted to fit the screen, a process that I have personally seen introduce jaggies to an otherwise beautiful picture.
- The dreaded screen door effect. If you blow up your DLP projector too big, you will see what is called the screen door effect where you can make out each pixel of the DLP chip. Not too pretty. Go to your local AV shop and get real close to the screen to actually see them. If you are not careful, you can make those big enough to be seen from all over the room.
My beef is the lack of true 1080i support. Supposedly, the LCOS chips coming will be able to support 1080i, but I haven't actually seen these projectors yet.As someone mentioned above, you need to determine the needs of the projector and if true HD resolution is one of them, hold off for now.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
I'd love to hear an example of a projector with replacement bulbs that cost less than $200
The lamp for my Epson S1 (which cost $900) is $199 at FocusedTechnology. This lamp is rated for 2000 hours, but reports I've heard suggest this is conservative - and that the bulb will last longer if well ventilated. I wouldn't buy a Dell, although I haven't looked a bunch at their offerings.
So, explain why I can't use a cheaper light source that is just as bright if I don't need it necessarily to fit into a itty bitty plastic case?
It's not just about brightness, it's about even-ness, temperature, and - as you suggest - size. Some projectors do use halogen bulbs, but they typically have very short lifetimes (~100 hours, I think). Most consumer projectors use metal halide bulbs.
With correct ventilation, and with no size restriction, you may well be able to use a different kind of lamp. Again, I think what you'll be unable to find is a lamp that can light evenly enough to create a quality picture.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
I found a $300 1024x768 panel on ebay and coupled it with a bright overhead projector I got for $100 on ebay. Sure it's no DLP, but I can watch movies on a 120" diagonal now. It's fun to measure your screen in feet rather than inches. Also, I can now call my 40" widescreen my "small tv."
I love how everyone seems to be bitchin' and moanin' about projector's limited bulb life. I was worried about it too when I was choosing my projector but then did some math and calmed down.
The bulb life on my Sony VPL-HS20 is 3000 hours in "cinema mode". I figure that with my schedule I won't be able to watch more than 1 hour per day (aside from an occasional LOR marathon). So that gives me a whooping 3,000 days before bulb goes caput. That's over 8 friggin' years! I figure that in eight years technology will advance so far that instead of spending $$$ on a new bulb I'll get a new projector or whatever the imaging device de la creme will be. (300dpi wall-to-wall imaging nanopaper, anyone?)
As for people saying that projectors are expesnive, I have to disagree. I get an eyepopping 120" diag. image for under $3K. Even if plasma screen of this size existed, it would probably cost over $100K. Of course, a nice Home Theater PC that is hooked up to the projector through DVI and an excellent 120" sceeen from Carada.com cost me an extra 1.5K, it is still a bargain. The only drawback is that the room has to be relatively dark, but this is not a problem in my case because it is in the basement.
"You mortals are so obtuse." -Q
The fella asks a perfectly legitimate question: What about projection displays in 24/7 environments like network centers? He then points out that perfection isn't required for this, it's a "good-enough" non-videophile situation.
You then get all supercilious about his even having the temerity to ask such a question, and downright rude about folks who might watch lots of TV. You cap it off with an obvious comment on bulb quality, again, after the poster pointed out quality wasn't an issue and a bit of accommodation was acceptable (rear-projecting onto a 30 inch screen doesn't require a bright bulb anyway.)
Way to drive down the quality of real signal to noise here, Bub. Can't thank you enough for working out your social insecurities on a legitimate poster asking a useful and /.-audience relevant question. Hope you feel all big and proud of yourself now for cutting him down to (your) size.
Finally, on a personal note, while it may be unheard of in your snide little world there are folks who do watch lots of TV: My Mom is one. She's retired and has fought bouts of depression for 50 years. Yes, there are days she's doing well to get out of bed to watch the big TV thankyouverymuch.
Frankly the one who needs surgery is you: Attitude and social skill upgrade, stat.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
My uncle is a movie-techno-geek from a long way back, and recently set up just such a system. He found two things that needed adjusting.
The first was that these projectors are designed for computer presentations in large rooms, so the light was ridiculously bright for DVDs and such in a home theater. Solution: a neutral density filter between the optics and the screen.
The second was that the colour temperature was much too high (too blue). Solution: a warming filter. It's a very pale rose pink colour. People don't look like aliens anymore.
The results are striking. I'm tempted myself.
...laura
Don't go with a projector if you don't have the budget. A sub $1k projector is just plain painful if you ever do see a $5k+ one in action.
My primary TV is a 60" Plasma, and I am adding a Vidikron Projector ($10k) with a drop down 10' screen . I have used cheap projectors, and after the novelty wears off, I hated watching anything on it.
First off, I own a Sony VPH-1278Q. Paid $1350 for it from eBay seller BPAI in Maryland, went and picked it up in person.
LCD and DLP projectors are compact, lightweight, and portable. Bright images from a small unit. Bulb costs are high, and the color intensity changes with the bulb life. Fixed resolution for the panels, there are widescreen units availible. Screen cannot do true black, there is always illumination even when the screen is "black"
CRT projectors are bulky, a pain in the ass to setup (you have to converge all 3 guns together). The 1278Q can do 1280x1024 I believe, but I run it from a HTPC @ 1024x768. Mine generates some noise, I could take efforts to silence it but it doesn't bother me.
CRT life can hit 8000 hours, the blue is the first to go. Static images burn in on CRT projectors, DLP/LCD don't suffer from this issue. CRT can do true black, all power to guns is cut and the screen is dark. CRT's are also known to have a hotness in the color when there is just a tiny bit, that is if there is just a little bit of red then it will be over-emphasised a bit because it takes a certain amount of power to fire the CRT (I haven't noticed this, this is from what I've read).
The CRT projector prices are falling, BUT ****BEWARE**** because many of the units on the surplus market are from corporate use, where they have been abused. Windows NT login splash burned into the display, etc. Be careful about this!!! There are hour counters on CRT projectors, mine had about 2200 hours on it when I bought it. I noticed some 4:3 browning but it didn't have any effect as it was outside of my projection area.
There is a bit more info on my web page above.
People balk at the size of my projector and start to talk about something they saw at SAMS club for xyz. There is much more to it than just point and shoot.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
A note to the author or anyone else considering a front projector for home theater: be very very wary of lighting conditions. If you have, say, a dedicated home theater in a basement room with no windows, or any other type of situation where you can completely control your environment, front projectors may very well be the best option (man, that adjustable screen is cool!). But any sort of ambient light at all is going to make you extremely unhappy with the picture. Home theater projectors are far different from computer-based video projectors in this sense. DLP is as bright as front projectors come, and it's still not good at all in a room with ambient light. And I'm not just a videophile being picky. Go to an Ultimate Electronics or if you're lucky enough to have a Magnolia around, go there, and demo one out, asking the sales rep for a small amount of light in the room. Decide for yourself. These things aren't for living rooms, or any room with a window, or somewhere where the next room over will frequently have a light on, etc... But that being said, in a completely controlled environment, front projectors rock. And the engineer in original post should build his own, to satisfy his own curiosity and because that's just damn cool.
Myself, I picked up Fujix P401 Mini Projector a long while back. I had to get it fixed, but it works great now. No bigger than a couple of stacked VHS tapes. Unfortunately, the bulbs are very hard to obtain (6 volt), and the resolution is very poor (320 x 200 or something). But it looks OK if you keep the screen size down (below 50" diagonal), and games play OK on it. I found that a shower curtain works OK for a screen, if you can get all of the wrinkles out. But what works fabulous for a screen, comes in a variety of sizes, rolls up, and is very cheap - is a blackout blind! I bought mine from Home Depot, I think I spent $15.00 or so on it. I think it was 60 inches wide or so. Mounted it to the ceiling, and it can pull down, lock, then pull and retract away. Very smooth surface, white and reflective. Not as good as a Da Lite, but much cheaper!
For a screen, look into getting a Da Lite. One thing to do is go to garage sales (tag sales), and see if you can find a foldable slide projector screen. If you can get a good silver one, with little or no damage (an old Da Lite, for instance) - don't pay more than $20.00 (I have seen them for much, much less) - and you will have a great screen.
As far as homebrew projectors are concerned: ask yourself what is more important, a good viewing experience, or the quest to build your own projector? I have no doubt that a homebrew projector could be built, that works great and is cheap. Maybe not as good output as a real projector (though a gutted 15-17" LCD monitor laid on an overhead projector would look nice), but acceptable. If you are looking to give a good movie-like experience, crisp and bright - stick to a bought projector. Your eyes and your guests will thank you.
Oh - one more thing. Those 100 inch TV plans you see - while not a scam (it is possible to get an OK picture), I wouldn't bother with them other than to play or as a "party trick" (ie, an "Acid Warp" display - for those old schoolers who know what I mean)...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Can anyone tell me why I should get an Infocus versus the BenQ 6100? The BenQ seems to sell better, is about the same price, and lighter. The light lasts longer, and is warranteed for an extra year.
I would be using it for weekly film nights (VHS/DVD), and occasionally for video art installations. I'm not concerned with HDTV, PC resolution, etc. I'm really wondering if there's some problem I'm not considering (fan noise? Lens quality?). Price is my main concern - I wouldn't even by considering one if they weren't in the $800-850 range.
Any advice would be helpful!
The biggest decision you should make about getting a projector is not the technology behind it (because honestly, at the consumer level, it's all about the same). What you do want to ask yourself is do you want a 16:9 (widescreen) or a 4:3 native.
Of course, you can display either one on any projector, but only one natively. If you pretty much only watch TV, 4:3 would be OK. But I would still ask you to consider 16:9 due to HDTV formats. If you only watch movies, or a mixture of the 2 (plus video games!), 16:9 is the way to go (so that leaves the X1 out of the picture).
16:9 also has some other benefits. You can get a larger maximum picture with a cheaper screen, since most screens are limited by the height (since cloth is width limited, which = height when put up on the wall). You also loose less resolution when watching normal 4:3 TV (which is somewhat a moot point since normal TV looks pretty crappy when it's 100" diagonal).
I myself have the Panasonic LT-300U. DVD's actually start looking crappy compared to HDTV on my projector. And XBox is pretty sweet when you play in HDTV mode.
One last word of advice: Make your own mount (if you're mounting from the ceiling). Don't bother to pay $200+ for a hunk of steel when you can make a better one for only $40. Just get a nylon cutting board, some ABS pipe, screws, springs and some nice black matte paint. Save yourself a bunch of cash for that HDTV convertor, and it'll be far more adjustable than the OEM one.
It's *really* amazing to see how things have gotten cheaper in the last 5 years. My home theater only cost $2000, and I don't bother going to the theaters anymore.
The first place I'd look if you're thinking about buying a projector is the "Highly Recommended" list at Projector Central: http://www.projectorcentral.com/recommended-home-t heater-projectors.htm
I'm using a Sanyo Z2, and couldn't be happier.
I thought you could only get the "screen door" effect with an LCD - where you could see lines in-between the pixels (thus the term "screen door"). I think the effect you mention is just the case of having only so many pixels, but is not "screen door".
Actually, it will affect both. Since both systems are pixel based, you can see the little squares that make up the image. DLP is less affected by it, as seen at this link.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
As a (retired) EE at age 51, I've built a lot of projects. I learned a long time ago to ask myself the following question before any home project starts:
Do I want to HAVE it, or do I want to BUILD it.
Saved myself a lot of work that way.
Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
You want good picture, theater-like quality, at a budget. Yes? Does your home theater feature a light controlled environment? Then you should buy a cheap antique 3-tube CRT projector on the used market. These babies can be had for the price you mention. (Ten years ago when they were new, they cost $50K easy.)
... 140 lbs and above is not unheard of, and setting them up correctly is a bit of a science project. They're certainly not the kind of theater-in-a-briefcase things you just casually take with you to parties.
:}
CRTs provide beautiful picture, some even do true HD resolutions. All razor sharp image without pixels.
Thing is, the picture is not as bright as that provided by modern DLP or LCD projectors, which is why you need the light controlled environment.
Also, CRT projectors weigh a ton
But the reward is amazing picture quality for your home theater with an amazing viewing experience for not a whole lot of money. Also, there's a healthy online community of CRT enthusiasts as nerdy and helpful as HAMs and vinyl freaks.
I have a 12 year old projector which paints a lovely 140" 720p 16x9 image on the screen which has the surface area of about nine 42" plasma TVs. I paid about $500 for it including all parts and peripherals. It weighs 135 lbs and I'm going to ceiling mount it directly above my viewing position in my home theater.
There's a posting here that describes someone's experiences. An infocus X1 is the projector.
A few points about the HS20 from personal experience. It *does* have amazing image quality and resolution.
But...
I went through three brand new HS20's (all sent back to Sony) before giving up on it. They all suffered from the same problem which was an inconsistent color temperature. For example, with a white screen, the lower left corner was pinkish and the top right was bluish. All three exhibited this behavior. I could get the same effect on a black screen with no inputs, so it was not my input. It seemed like a manufacturing defect with one or more of the panels being "pinched".
Second, the color registration on the three panels was never spot on and it's not adjustable. So the crosshair in the middle of the screen was white, but all the others had blue or red fringes.
Third, I wanted an all digital system. This projector has DVI input which is sweet. Unfortunately, at the native resolution of the panels (16x9 at 1388x768), it only accepts a refresh of 56.6Hz. That means movies show a slight jerkiness since the frame refresh does not sync up with output of the computer. Using a lower resolution results in blurring and scaling of the image inside of the projector which totally negates the point of a pure digital picture (and letting the computer handle scaling, etc). It also makes for a crappy desktop.
Sony also refuses to divulge any info about supported display modes. One support idiot claimed that connecting a PC to the projector via DVI was not supported and could damage the projector or PC. Sometimes Sony's proprietary ways are a little too much to bear.
I owned the previous generation of VPL Sony home theater projectors and they did not exhibit these problems (color and alignemnt). I'm hoping these flaws are fixed because it's an otherwise amazing piece of hardware.
heres what *I* did.
Browsed ebay for a few months till I found a good deal on a projector that I liked. I made sure it was a large unit with a large reflector. Bought it for $103.00 USD
Upon receiving the unit and testing it to find the metal halide bulb was indeed gone, I replaced it with my OWN bulb holder, etc, that uses a standard 11,000 lumen 500 watt tungsten lamp. Replacements now cost me 3 bucks at home depot(instead of a 600-1000). It's one of the lower voltage 500 watters so it's not a yellow light and it's rather bright.
Now when I want to pack up my 10 foot screen tv and move it, I just tuck it under my arm and out the door I go.
Note that you may have problems with macrovision on some projectors. If you find that it goes bright and dark all the time, you can thank macrovision for thier crippleware.
-Plappy
Cost me about $1200, bought offline. Looks like you may be able to get it cheaper now. I've had mine for almost a year. 100+ operating hours. Playing XBox, Dreamcast and DVDs. Hooked up my laptop a few times and for some reason, it worked above 800x600 resolution. I believe my laptop is set to 1024x768. Why it still worked I have no idea, but it looked great.
I may have spent too much - maybe I could have gone with one of these $300 projectors. I didn't know there were $300 projectors at the time.
I keep my projector about 8-10 feet from a wall, used paper from an artstore to line the wall. You could guess I'm not an A/V nut. I used an old pair of powered computer speakers w/ subwoof that is plenty good enough for me. I have no idea what the ratings are, and the speakers are placed behind me when I watch movies - which one person found a little strange. I have the speakers facing at the back wall, and it doesn't bother me one bit that the sound doesn't come from the wall - either I don't notice it, or it does end up coming from the screen-wall enough that I don't care. My cats consantly knock over the speakers and I don't even bother to pick them up.. so my advice on audio should be taken with a grain of salt; though I am a musician, if that means anything.
At 8-10 feet the image is about 8' diagonally. Wide screen, full screen, computer screen, whatever - doesn't matter it looks good. I would work off of it as a desktop to work with apps - but I loaded Warcraft 3 on the laptop and it looked great. Actually - I think Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast looks better than Soul Calibur 2 on XBox, on the projector.
Maybe the novelty hasn't worn off yet - but I think this is one of the best purchases I've made. It turns every crappy game and crappy movie into something decent - because hey - it's freakin huge!
Biggest drawback is running cost - the bulb alone costs $0.5-1 per hour. Hard to say what else wears out. I found pictures from LCD based projectors to hazy to enjoy. DLP pictures are better but if you have a powerful soumd system it can upset the little mirrors on the DLP and you see 'waves' as the sub booms. All this is not ideal yet. I'd like to see laser scanning projectors before I make my move.
Yeah, you probably have a ground loop causing interference. It can happen anytime you connect two devices where the grounding isn't 100% equal. The problem is some small current flows between them causing noise from the 50/60hz AC power cycle.
Solutions include making sure both devices are plugged into the same line, using a shorter cable to connect them, or if nothing else works, using a ground loop isolation transformer.
I'd think twice about investing beaucoup bucks on a screen if you're going for a low-end projector. I paid just under $1,100 for my Sanyo PLV-Z1 (very happy with it, outstanding picture), but I couldn't justify blowing potentially *way* more on a pro screen. As others have mentioned, AVS Forum is THE site, and its Screens forum is full of cheap (as in inexpensive) do-it-yourself ideas. I created an essentially pro-quality screen by spending about $60 on a 4-by-8 sheet of Formica, some Kilz primer, and a pint of Behr Ultra White paint (all available at your local Home Depot). I used my old Wagner power painter to get nice, even coverage (it's tough to get rollers to cooperate), and finished the job with some cheap wood molding spray-painted black for a screen frame (a key; it really makes the colors jump out). I got some Velcro strips to secure the whole shebang to the wall, and presto -- great screen for a fraction of what the pros cost. I'm the anti-Norm Abram as a handyman, so if I can do it, anyone can.
I bought the nec lt240k after reading the review at projector central http://www.projectorcentral.com/nec_lt240k.htm I am very pleased with this unit. It costs ~$2000, about twice the price of the entry level HT projectors that have been mentioned alot in this discussion.. but it's twice the projector in many ways. It has 2000 lumens, which makes a big difference compared to the ~1000 lumen projectors. I project onto a flat white wall and the 12ft wide by 9ft tall image is decent during daylight and outstanding at night. I'm sure a real screen would improve daylight viewing. People are very impressed by both the size of the image and the quality of the picture. You will need about 17 feet of distance from the screen to achieve a screen this size, but thanks to the many keystone and aspect correcting options you can put the projector very far off center. I actually have it mounted in the ceiling of a hallway thats almost 5 feet off center of my screen and it works great. Its pretty quiet in normal mode, but it also has an econo mode which at night is still great viewing and VERY quiet. I'm assuming that it also saves on bulb life. If you want a larger and brighter screen than the $1000 units, consider this one. You do get alot more for the extra cash, and at $2k its still cheaper than a decent "little" 50 something inch rear projection tv. You don't mind the fact that it only weighs about 7 lbs when you have to move either!
-Lod
... just get a momitsu or kiss player or anything else with a Sigma EM85xx chip driving it. There are usually firmwares floating around, unlocking and removing the macrovision shit. This also enables the pre-scaled high-res HD and SVGA output resolutions for DVD content on those players.
Fuck hollywood. Fuck macrovision. Fuck region codes.
Like others have said AVS Forum is the best place to research. We recently finished our basement and I decided on the InFocus 5700. It's not true HD resolution, but HD does look awesome on it. I also looked at the Infocus 4800 (similar to the X1), but I saw rainbows with it's slower color wheel.
The most important thing is to see each of the major technologies (DLP, LCD, LCOS, CRT) to decide if the tradeoffs of each will be a problem for you.
See my Home Theater
For a different opinion on this, see http://www.projectorcentral.com/formats.htm, and in particular the section called "Why get a 4:3 projector with a 4:3 screen?". What I find particularly interesting is this quote:
Personally, I prefer a big 4:3 screen. Here's why. I want to watch widescreen movies in their widescreen glory, no doubt about it. So I have a 4:3 screen that is wide enough to give me the 16:9 display I want, which in my theater is 8 feet wide.