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A Public Library's Linux Success Story
Joe Barr writes "What with the spate of professionally PR-generated FUD coming out of Redmond about Linux not being open source, or Windows having a lower TCO, and - believe it or not - even a claim that Windows is more reliable, it's good to read about some real world, grass-root results of successful migrations from Windows to Linux. This story at NewsForge takes a look at the Howard County (Maryland) Public Library's roll-out of over 200 public-use PCs, which used to run on Windows and now run on a custom Linux distribution called Lumix."
what was the FUD about Linux NOT being open source!? i missed that somewhere.... that sounds like MS desperately grasping at straws
link please?
May you be touched by His Noodly Appendage. RAmen.
Library management is happy because of the money it is saving. Those savings come from reduced administration costs and from hardware savings.
9 7;fp;2;fpid;1
Bout time someone actually tested the fact that the admin costs are cheaper. I agree. But many others dont:
http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;3838698
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/41485
And much more...
-Imidazole2
Lumix.org is great
Am I the only one unable to find anything about a Lumix named linux distribution? The only thing I could figure out is that Panasonic makes a camera called "Lumix" that is Linux compatible.
Casual Games/Downloads
I've been trying to get Libraries and School Systems to integrate linux for years, and nobody ever listens to me. In my limited experience, the upper-level staff at Schools and Libraries can be so afraid of change, or afraid of "impending doom", that they can't let go of the Windows security blanket. They don't care that Linux can make their systems more reliable and save money -- They are just worried about not having a number to call. It's refreshing to see that this isn't always the case.
The local public library (somewhere in Mass.) here has an iMac sitting in the front lobby, with the iTunes application running - for people to browse through their library of songs.
I went and asked the librarian(s) about the machine and they said Apple had donated it. Interesting concept - free advertising and people think the company's being Good (TM) by donating to the public library. Not very useful for downloading songs though, given the DRM restrictions on downloads. All the other machines running the Catalog app are Windows though.
Just thought it was interesting enough to post here on /. ... pardon the OTness.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
My university library is a bit sillier. They have brand-spanking-new IBM machines worth several grand, I'm sure, and all they're doing is running kiosk-mode Internet Explorer to their card catalog site (one that is easily bypassed by Win+R, by the way).
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
This sounds like a perfect fit to me. Given that budgets for libraries the country over are systematically being cut, not having to add the cost of software licensing to a collection of public access PC's is a great boon. Considering that the majority of computer use in the library is limitied to the internet and word processing the availability of suitable open source alternatives for these two activities also fits well. All in all I'd be surprised if we don't hear of more institutions moving to this as money becomes tight.
I know many years ago I donated a collection of 486 and early pentiums to a shop in brooklynn that refurbished them and distributed them to inner city workshops that taught kids how to work on computers. I can only imagine how much of a boon to this program it would have been had linux then been up to the level that it is today.
Sir, there is a dragon outside with an armful of armor. He's inquiring if we offer free refills.
Here in Silicon Valley, Sunnyvale and the new Santa
Clara library are totally on Windows. I havn't yet
been to the new MLK in San Jose -- scary thing is
I see people using public computers and IE to do
online transactions.
I finally got my friend John (a HARDCORE XP nerd btw) to try Linux for his corporate desktop machine. I chose FC1 and KDE 3.2.2. As I sat there with him, he is saying things like WOW! THAT'S SWEET! After I told him the cost of implementation (and let's face it guys, it's never zero) he was aghast. "So we can outfit an entire office for the cost of one Windows server license?"
... if I ever go back to Windows ... "
:-)
As for the "higher cost of training" fud, thats utter bullshit. Within two hours he was just as productive as he was in XP. He's using Kontact (he actually liked it better than evolution), Mozilla, Open Office, etc.
Towards the end of the day, he said, "
On a side-note, he asked me why everything starts with K. I told him about KDE's naming scheme. He called me up a while later and said, "How do I find my ip address? Is it kipconfig?"
bash: rtfm: command not found
Both stories backed up with loud exclamations of "TAKE THAT, M$ PR PEOPLE!!!" that suggest he spends far more time thinking about them than they do about Linux.
This library adoption is great. There is absolutely no reason to use Windows in this context and it's good to see Linux being used. (I'm curious to hear how the proposed switch to Open Office goes, but it will probably be fine, also.) But after five years of LINUX IS READY FOR THE DESKTOP!!!, the level of spraying seems a bit excessive for these two stories.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
My roommate and I noticed something the other day at CompUSA. Most people don't have anything against Linux and open source per se, they're just uninformed.
;^)
There was a gentleman about to purchase some software. I forget exactly what, but it was something that most certainly existed for Linux free as in both speech and beer. Scott stopped him and explained very simply about Linux and how he doesn't actually need to pay one red cent for most software. By the end of the conversation, he was all ready to run home and boot a Knoppix CD to try it out. Even his wife was interested.
It wasn't that they were afraid to try something new, it was just that they didn't realize there are alternatives to Windows.
Now, corporations have another problem: the Sunken Cost Fallacy. Managers don't seem to understand that, for most business uses of a computer, there is no real reason to use Windows. They furthermore believe that, since they've already paid for a Windows environment, they'd lose that investment if they switched, and thus continue to pay.
I've found in my professional life that most office workers need very little to do their job. Office Suite, Web Browser, Calendar/Collaboration Software, Email, File Sharing, and maybe a simple Database: that's it.
Granted, there are some applications professionals use that don't currently exist in usable form on Linux, but those users can remain on Windows for the time being. (Or WINE, if they're adventurous). The first step is switching over all the office drones and secretaries who, quite frankly, don't need much software to do their job.
Heh... We're seriously considering standing outside of CompUSA one day and handing out Knoppix CDs and pamphlets. Spread the word. Vive la revolution! Blah blah blah....
You get my point
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
I know that every year there's about a two or three month period when everyone starts to think that 'linux' (gnu/linux) is finally staking a claim on the computing world at large, and then all the fanboys (linux, MS, & Apple) start duking it out in the forums.
And i'm a natural skeptic, i am... but something about this time around feels good. We're hearing about adoption in the public and private sector. Companies are including OSS in their IT road maps. Microsoft is FUD-foaming at the mouth every day, scrambling to patent everything about an OS that's not coming out for probably at least two years.
What does everyone else think? Am i alone in this feeling that the wind has changed?
Obviously there's a lot of work ahead, and i don't think that we've gotten past even the worst of the danger. But the last few months have been... well, positive.
~dijjnn
"The only sites they can't reach are those that require Internet Explorer. And while they can't play Shockwave games..."
Why not? there is a shockwave plugin avilable that works with Mozilla and Konqueror (that I know of). Granted the plugin sucks royal ass and runs about half the speed it would on a comparable Windows box, that is shockwave's fault, however. But it still works.
Also a little useragent tweaking should get most of those "IE required" sites working too.
I am glad to see this. It seems libraries are having enough trouble these days with budget cuts without having to worry about how they are going to pay expensive software licenses.
the thing to make it easier would have been using LTSP and turn all machines out in the common area into X terminals and simply buy/use one decent server for the backroom and you are finished.
upgrade OO.o and instantly all other machines are upgraded.
Hell a old P-233 machine is 200 times faster than the best NCD X terminal you can buy and insanely cheaper.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Well, it migth be coz in San Jose many people speak Spanish. No news that they won't use a Linux distribution that in Spanish sounds like "harlotx" or "bitchx" (in Spanish, "lumis" is a name for bad reputation women).
English speakers use an IRC client called BitchX though...
If you don't need much more than websurfing and wordprocessing functionality, it doesn't make much sense to keep up with the Joneses running Windows.
That's about all 80% of PC users actually do need, if you add in a spreadsheet and email and a few other bits.
What I really want someone to come up with is a really simplified version of desktop linux - a kind of minimal installation with all the basics and locked-down so that it's difficult to break. In fact, what these guys have come up with. This is the type of set-up they should be selling in Walmart.
They might also want to consider changing the server software. OpenBiblio looks like a pretty nice system. I'm not sure how adequate it would be though considering I have only used library software a few times lately.
I have been asked to help setup a kiosk like structure for a library is a small town of less than 500 people. Most of the computer patrons will be the children and the elderly. It will consist of a few Pentium II machines and an old hplj-4 printer. I was thinking that something like Knoppix would be a good choice but because of the fact that the computers are old, I would like to avoid KDE and Gnome as much as possible. While a few small window managers come with Knoppix (like WM and ICE), they don't load by default and I haven't played around with Knoppix enough to figure out how to set new defaults. Any suggestions on lightweight but effective CD-rom based distributions.
Also, while I know it is a hot topic around here, does anyone know of good software to prevent access to porn sites and what not for linux?
Yes. This sounds like a great opportunity for a collaboration effort for libraries. There is a corporate open source / collaboration project run here in Minneapolis, similar to the one proposed for government entities in Massachusetts. (sorry, no links handy) Spread the load across library admins nationwide / internationally, and you could have an incredible market-specific Linux implementation.
Many LUGs even meet at libraries. I'm sure an arrangement could be made. It would serve as an excellent opportunity for a LUG to train its less clued members and to accomplish something to help their community library at the same time.
I can count to 1023 on my hands. Ask me about #132.
I just moved to Howard County about a month ago. I can practically spit on the HCPL Center from my house. I've been meaning to check it out, and free wi-Fi is sealing the deal for me.
And it really is refreshing to see library IT people being able to use Linux to breathe new life into perfectly good old PCs. I stopped off at the Prince George's County Library (also in MD) last night, and their web-based card catalog system is access through IE3 on Win95 Gateway machines, and they're still so slow to be practically unusable.
-- get on Freenet!
One of the biggest issues I've had with M$ is with each successive version, the hardware requirements just increasing above and beyond.
I mean really, with the cost to upgrade to XP, plus the cost of hardware upgrades, where the Linux route cost virtually nothing.
If you look closely at a lot of the TCO advertisements and such, they are compared between a mainframe, and a dual-processer Xeon Intel box. Hmmmmm, I wonder where the majority of the TCO is comming from? Hmmmmm. Could it be the HARDWARE? Tell me why they aren't comparing the Linix solution on a dual Xeon Intel box??
Because **IF** the underlying hardware is the same, there is no real comparison for the OS. (Couple thousand vs free) Hmmmmmm. How can one even compare to the other.
It's like putting a leather steering wheel cover on a Kia, and one on a Porsche, and saying that the Kia has the lower TCO. Well, uhhh, DUH!!! The KIA has the lower TCO with out the leather cover also. So does the steering wheel cover really affect the TCO?
These TCO comparisons should be made on the SAME hardware, rather than the vastly different hardware.
---
No matter what happens, act like you meant it to happen!
You should have read more carefully before posting. It says Each PC runs runs a script twice a day. They are not logging on to each machine, but the machines keep themselves up to date through I would guess a reference box.
In fact, if you read the other article in the link, it says each machine is set up to wake-on-LAN, so they can be turned on and off remotely as well.
This must be god-sent to the Librarians. The machines turn themselves on and off, they update themselves from a central server (probably set up for the whole county), and they erase cookies and cache themselves. No more playing IT Admin whenever there is a new MS patch, no more virii, and at no additional software cost. As long as someone intelligent is updating the reference machine, this is an ideal set-up-and-forget system. I really hope this catches on.
In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land,
it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison
You wanna hear a success story? We've been mostly a unix shop since the dawn of time. Years before I arrived the dominant platform was aix and now its linux(has been for the past couple of years). Sure linux is not without its problems but in our high powered environment 1)we need the stablility/security 2)the costs we save is phenomenal. We only have to buy one copy of linux for an upgrade on some 70+ machines and that's that. Now compared to windows where you need 70+ copies/licenses of windows os, 70+ licenses of office, 70+ licenses anti-virus software crap and not to mention the TIME to patch all os'. Granted not all stories are like mine. Some will be positive, some neutral and some negative. But this is my story and I'm sticking to it!
Probably a dual-core CPU running at 4GHz, 2 gigs of RAM, a terabyte of storage, a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link, and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today. (See here)
There are a number of interesting Library projects using Linux. Beauregard Parish Public Library helped develop its own distro of linux called Whitebox . There's also oss4lib which focuses on Open Source Projects in libraries.
Hell a old P-233 machine is 200 times faster than the best NCD X terminal you can buy and insanely cheaper.
Really, I think this is the only medium-long-term solution for businesses. You will buy a box about the size of a mini ethernet switch that you plug a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and ethernet into and away you go. It will run Linux-box X server which is booted off the server machine. The box will be solid state, will run for about 10 years without becoming obsolete, and if it ever breaks down, you just chuck it in the garbage. It only costs $60, so it's not worth trying to repair. Anyone can sign in using any desktop, and you don't have to worry about viruses, people installing their own software, managing the software on zillions of desktop machines, upgrading them, or moving parts wearing out. Some day, businesses, governments, and schools will figure out that Windows PCs on every desktop is an insane waste of money and admin resources. It is inevitable, but it may take a while, since people are used to their treadmills.
Also inevitable: Linux will become the only server, desktop, and embedded operating system, and OpenOffice the only office suite.
I think "what's up with him" is probably the same thing has really driven me away from Slashdot. This used to be a great news site but the slant has gotten too great. If you don't believe me just try to submit a story showing something negative that IBM has done and see if it gets posted. How about something defending microsoft or showing a flaw with Linux. The story will never be accepted. The ones that are accepted seem to always have some sort of editorial built into them. Look I love Linux as much as the next guy, but that doesn't mean that I have to see it through rose colored glasses. I see it's flaws as well as it's strengths which seems to be more than most people around here can do. I used to check this site constantly throughout the day, now I check it maybe once a week.