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Estonia Embraces Wi-Fi Wireless Internet Access

securitas writes "BBC Technology's Clark Boyd reports on one man's efforts to make free 802.11 Wi-Fi wireless Internet access ubiquitous in Estonia. An estimated two-thirds of Estonia is now covered by wireless hotspots according to Veljo Haamer, who convinced Estonia's major oil companies, Neste and Statoil, to install free hotspots at gas stations. Two-thirds of Estonia's approximately 280 public hotspots are free to use, all of which are marked with signs. But Haamer still wardrives for dead-spots and next plans to get free wireless access to public parks and green spaces. Last year Slashdot covered Estonia's legislation declaring Internet access a human right."

175 comments

  1. Lady on the train by ObviousGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I ride the train to and from work all the time here in Tokyo. The other day an obviously mentally ill woman walked down the isle and asked everyone to turn off their cellphones. The signals made her heart murmur, she said. So at first I turned off my cellphone and just cursed her under my breath.

    Later, after it was clear that she had satisfied her mental illness and sat down in her seat, I fired up my cellphone again for a short game of tetris. Please note that I am about half a train length away from her. When she decided it was time to bother people again, I put my foot down and refused to turn off the phone.

    First of all, the phone is not emitting any signals of significant strength, especially not enough to cause heart palpitations in someone 10 yards away. Second, I was not talking on the phone, which could definitely be considered rude. Finally, I had simply had enough with her mumbo jumbo and needed to express my frustration.

    Now I read this story and begin to wonder if I've caught her mental illness. I am not saying that I get physical side effects from electronic devices. God knows that I'd be dead from exposure by now if that were the case. But I wonder how much technology is enough. If there is any point to trying to maintain a technology free area.

    The crazy woman was trying to create a small radio-free zone around her. I thought she was insane, but now I'm not so sure.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Lady on the train by darkgreen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, I think it's a great idea. The fact that it's wireless lets you get it out of the 'view' of the public - no place to plug into means no lines for an outlet, or crowding around just one place.

      You can take any idea too far, granted, and having wireless everywhere doesn't mean it's ok to use at every chance you get (similar to having coverage for your cell doesn't mean it's alright to start yelling into the phone (and my ear) during my dinner, or commute, etc. Compared to that, I'd take a commute on the train with 50 people clicking away instead of chattering cell phones any day.

      Technology is great, it's courtesy we're lacking.

      --
      You don't need Geeksintraining if you're on Slashdot.
    2. Re:Lady on the train by absquatulatrix · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By two-thirds-coverage, they must mean proximity to a hotspot, right? Like being in the same town as a cafe with one? Maybe I'm seriously misinformed about the current range of these things, but I can't imagine 280 hotspots covering two-thirds of the total area of the country. But no matter how the country is covered, I don't see the problem, especially if wireless just happens to be the simplest way to get everyone Internet access. As long as for most people the Internet remains a means to various ends, rather than an end in itself (hm, perhaps this isn't something I should be expressing on slashdot!)

    3. Re:Lady on the train by darkgreen · · Score: 1, Funny
      Of course, that's until I read this:
      Cafes that offer free internet access are filled with young professionals checking email, surfing the web, and designing PowerPoint presentations.

      ugh. Powerpoint. I get the feeling I'd be able to hear the horribly-designed templates.
      --
      You don't need Geeksintraining if you're on Slashdot.
    4. Re:Lady on the train by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, Estonia is bathing its people in 802.11 waves. In a few years we'll know if there are any problems. Thank you Estonia for your large-scale human experiment!

    5. Re:Lady on the train by DigitumDei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't ham radios put out a much stronger signal on the same frequency range? There was a time when ham radio's were quite popular (and in some places they still are) and I don't remember anything about ham radio's massive cancer causing properties.

    6. Re:Lady on the train by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Living in Tokyo myself, I can only assume that after causing a scene with a mentally handicapped lady, everyone was staring at you, the crazy gaijin causing a scene. Was that game of Tetris THAT important?

      For those not in the know, there are signs on all the trains in Tokyo that specifically say you can't use your cell phone on the train, and it must be turned off near the priority seats at both ends of the car. (These are for senior citizens, handicapped people, pregnant ladies and so on so forth. It's also a radio wave free zone, for those with pace makers.)

    7. Re:Lady on the train by smc13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Aren't 802.11B and G using the same frequency as cordless phones? 2.4 GHZ, right? If a cordless phone doesn't harm you, why would a wireless ethernet connection?

    8. Re:Lady on the train by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Well, their version of the FCC might not have the same power restrictions on transmission that exist here in the states. So a hotspot could be decidedly larger.

    9. Re:Lady on the train by AKnightCowboy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Second, I was not talking on the phone, which could definitely be considered rude.

      Why on earth would anyone consider that rude? If the person you were talking to was sitting right there and you were having a conversation, would that be rude as well? I never understood this fascination people have with cell phones being rude to use in a restaurant for example, yet the next table over can have 8 people all talking to each other and acting quite annoying. Why not kick them out for talking as well? I can understand their point if you're shouting into your lame ass crappy phone because you think it'll improve reception, but if you're holding a conversation in a normal tone of voice then what's the problem?

    10. Re:Lady on the train by iantri · · Score: 1
      Jakob Nielsen looked into this.

      For some reason, people find cell phone conversations more annoying than a face to face conversation. It's not clear why.

    11. Re:Lady on the train by Wolfkin · · Score: 1

      It's probably because having another person there that you're talking to is a low-level cue that I don't need to pay attention, and if that cue isn't there, I'm going to be subtlely distracted throughout your conversation, as my "someone is trying to get my attention" or "someone is talking to me" alert is going off.

      --
      Property law should use #'EQ, not #'EQUAL.
    12. Re:Lady on the train by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      You know, oddly enough, I feel I too can sense the EM field given off by electronic devices. It's not just the sound....I can almost feel it in the air. Things just seem...more...I dunno, still, when things are turned off. That being said, I've kind of grown accustomed to it, and the hum of the computer itself.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    13. Re:Lady on the train by evbergen · · Score: 1

      Indeed. A continuous wave or narrowband FM signal at 2.4 GHz shouldn't do much harm other than warming things a little. However, when you start sending all sorts of pulse patterns it becomes a whole different matter.

      I can see a possibility of small water droplets functioning as a small AM demodulator for 2.4 GHz signals -- after all, temperature will follow signal intensity. If such droplets are enclosed in something else, pressure will vary with the same pulse rithm. Perhaps it's even possible to make a small cavity resonate, I don't know.

      The problem is that almost all research into non-ionizing radiation looks only at the amount of energy transferred, and the risks associated with absorbing that energy, as if it's diffuse and applied continuously. Indeed, when evaluated this way, any electromagnetic energy with frequencies below X-ray will have very manageable risks.

      Really, unless we know about the long term effects (and can you ever? I mean, there's no way of scientifically measuring, say, a 5 % decrease in intelligence or concentration over 10 years), I want to be able to avoid WiFi if I want to.

      To me that means it's OK in gas stations, hotel lobbies, places where you will only be for a short time, but not if you start bathing parks, residential areas and everything in pulsed 2.4 GHz.

      The brains is the most complex analog device in the known universe, and as the signal of one thing is always the noise of another, I am not too happy with the prospect of flooding the world in microwaves.

      Not even if that means free broadband. Sorry.

      --
      All generalizations are false, including this one. (Mark Twain)
    14. Re:Lady on the train by ivan_13013 · · Score: 1

      I can also feel the 60 cycle hum in my brain, espescially in a room that's using lots of power, or one with a wiring fault. But usually the only times I consciously notice it is if there's a power outage. Everyone hears the fans in the computers and ventilation system slowly shut down, the moment of silence as everyone tries to figure out what's going on ... but a fraction of a second before that, I feel the 60 cycle buzz abruptly stop.

      Also, I have wifi at home and work. And I have slept in the same room with at least one powered-on computer, usually two, since I was 15 or so, and there's been a PCS or GSM cell phone glued to my face for the last 7 years. (there's an interesting visual)

      No dain bramage yet. yargh.

  2. wow by CrystalChronicles · · Score: 1, Funny

    wow I would never have imagined petrol station operators being that generous.

  3. is 100% coverage necessary? by darkewolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A anti-geek as it may sound, I really can't see a need for 100% wireless coverage of any country large or small.

    When I got to parks or outdoors, I do it to relax and escape the technology that I work with and live with. I go find a tree in a nice park near the river and sit quietly and listen to the water, the wind and the birds.

    I really don't want to sit there and hear some guys talking about how they can watch their stock prices change second by second now, or some brat fragging a buddy whilst enjoying nature.

    Oh well, I am safe from it in Australia at least.

    --
    "That is not dead which can eternal lie...."
    Nimheil
    1. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't thinking laterally...

      Next time that little camping brat frags your arse, you can go grab a limb off the nearest tree and club him to death!

    2. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Exiler · · Score: 1, Funny

      Ya see, my plan is that we strap wifi repeaters on the backs of some dingos and kangaroos and then put bulky, overpowered access points on the koalas. We'll have australia blanketed in warm radio glow in no time!

      --
      Banaaaana!
    3. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Mdalek · · Score: 1


      :o Trees have limbs?

    4. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by acceber · · Score: 1
      An estimated two-thirds of Estonia is now covered by wireless hotspots...

      As convenient wi-fi technology can be and the benefits of increased accessibility in communication, such developments would probably see some major changes in social values and priorities.

      The world nowadays relies on the internet so heavily, it would be hard to imagine life without it. It may well reach a point when internet communication replaces human face to face contact , relationships are maintained without the need for going out and sending letters via snail mail would cease as a form of communication altogether.

    5. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by pubjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A anti-geek as it may sound, I really can't see a need for 100% wireless coverage of any country large or small.

      Well, if you have 100% coverage, in theory you wouldn't need mobile phones, you could do voice over ip. Free mobile phone calls - neat!

    6. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They sure do were I live: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=limb

      OIC, you're from the UK. Sorry.

    7. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by targo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A anti-geek as it may sound, I really can't see a need for 100% wireless coverage of any country large or small.

      I really don't want to sit there and hear some guys talking about how they can watch their stock prices change second by second now, or some brat fragging a buddy whilst enjoying nature.

      How is this different from having 100% cell phone service coverage? You could similarly say that it would be bothersome to have people talking on their cell phones everywhere and all the time.
      This has actually nothing to do with coverage and everything to do with people's culture.
      Estonia has had 100% cell coverage for a while now but I must say I find Estonian cell phone users less obtrusive than say, Americans (I live in the US most of the time but visit Estonia every now and then).
      America is about 5 years behind Estonia and other frontrunners in Europe when it comes to embracing cell phones and going through the same problems Europe did (people using their phones as status symbols and showing off and being a pain in the ass). However, people have really embraced the cell phone culture and gotten over the initial growth pain, there's much more respect to other people, less showing off and more maturity in general. I expect America to catch up in a few years in that respect.

      Similarly, wireless Internet will evolve through the same stages, there will be a period of adolescence and then maturity. In 10 years, wireless coverage will be everywhere and we will wonder how we ever got by without it (similar to regular Internet or cell phones today).

    8. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by DigitumDei · · Score: 2, Interesting

      With small 802.11b/g capable devices getting more and more common and powerful, 100% coverage is becoming more and more useful. Here in South Africa, cell phone coverage has gotten better and better (to the point where people living in tin shacks and barely enough money to feed their family still manage to own cell phones). One can only hope that something similar with hot spots happens here (though I dobut it). Once things like this take off the benifits are amazing, people just have to learn how to turn the devices off once in a while. :)

    9. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by moro_666 · · Score: 1

      basically i don't think that covering luxemburg or andorra or sri lanka would be a great deal nor an investment.
      they have hightech around them 24/7 anyway, these waves of net won't disturb anyone.

      but as they are quite big exceptions they obviously don't count as a "country" in your context.

      basically you got tv-signals and radio-signals around you the whole day (except if you dive into the sea), and they don't seem to disturb you, do they ?

      i think i'll have barrel of beer when australia gets it's whole land area covered with wireless :p
      as for estonia, i'm here and i'm for sure not sitting in the wireless enabled area right now, too bad :(

      --

      I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
    10. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by baldcamel · · Score: 1

      I find this whole 100% coverage a bit strange. Living in the southwest of england (Devon and Cornwall) coverage is nowhere near 100%. One network might cover the area but others won't. So I don't think that wireless networking has much of a chance.

      And does 100% mean population or area? Both in low denisty population areas is surely pointless in terms of cost and visual impact on the enviroment?

    11. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Better go with mesh network nodes. That way sections can still communicate within a region, even if that region becomes isolated from the main network.

    12. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by darkewolf · · Score: 1

      Its not the coverage / signals that bother me. Its the potential abuse of it I guess.

      I have rarely seen someone with a TV sitting in the park getting in the way of the summer breeze. Radio now and again, and alas far too many mobile phones.

      However I guess its fairly inevitable. I guess its time to buy wireless to prepare for never being able to escape work:

      Boss: Hey, I know you told us you were picnicing all weekend with family, but our test server that is used once a week during business hours has gone down. We need you to log in and reset the system.. We know you can, you have a tablet PC and that area has wireless connection.

      Me: I just retired and will take up potato farming instead..

      Oh well :)

      --
      "That is not dead which can eternal lie...."
      Nimheil
    13. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by GregChant · · Score: 1

      Welcome to my world.

      The wireless age is a mixed blessing.

    14. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by kabocox · · Score: 1

      there's much more respect to other people, less showing off and more maturity in general. I expect America to catch up in a few years in that respect.

      You appear to not have visited US before. We aren't going to catch up on maturity.

    15. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by 16K+Ram+Pack · · Score: 1
      There are lots of places where cellphones just don't work (like behind hills/underpopulated areas), and they can be a blessing.

      I can imagine a time in the future when areas like Scottish Isles will become even more popular because cellphones don't work.

    16. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by darkewolf · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately I have done it when I used to be an engineer on call. Mobile phone and pager and phone calls at 4am from the Managing Director cause the website took half a second longer to load than normal..

      --
      "That is not dead which can eternal lie...."
      Nimheil
    17. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by welsh+git · · Score: 1

      > When I got to parks or outdoors, I do it to relax and escape the technology
      > that I work with and live with. I go find a tree in a nice park near the river
      > and sit quietly and listen to the water, the wind and the birds.

      Whilst I agree totally with your sentiments, another way of looking at it is that you can STILL do that, but ADDITIONALLY, times when you would otherwise be stuck coding in the office/home, you can now spend coding listening quietly to the water, the wind and the birds...

      It's all about perspective: sure, there are geeks who won't go anywhere without their mobile phone, and their laptop/internet access, but that doesn't mean that we have to do that too!

      --
      Sig out of date
    18. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by I7D · · Score: 1
      What is everybody's deal with rudely talking on cell phones? Is it just as annoying to you when others talk to those next to them? People being rude on cells is cliche now. I don't really notice it because it really isn't any different from somebody talking to somebody a few feet away.

      Can people be rude on cells? yes, but can't people be rude in every other way possible too?

      --
      Neil is that you? Yeah yeah, it's me... Neil...
    19. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      "When I got to parks or outdoors, I do it to relax and escape the technology that I work with and live with."

      Ok, now lets look at a viewpoint outside of your own. Believe it or not, it is a real convenience for a lot of people to be able to access the internet anywhere, wirelessly.

      Just because you go to the park or outdoors for one reason in no way means that everybody else needs to do it for those same reasons. If you don't want to sit there and listen to the guy talking about his stocks, move somewhere else, or ask him to stop talking. And I really fail to see how kids playing computer games OUTSIDE is a bad thing. If anything its an improvement from sitting in the basement playing CS all day. At least they're getting sun.

      I'm not saying enjoying nature free of technology is bad, but the good thing about wireless is that its optional. You don't have to take part in it. It may be AVAILABLE everywhere, but people certainly won't be USING it everywhere. Personally, I'd like to know that I have the option of using it when I want to rather than having to worry about getting back to a computer somewhere with a net connection.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    20. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by darkewolf · · Score: 1

      You do make very good points here, I will have to concede and agree with you :P

      Oh well, I can see a use for it myself. Could sit in the park writing on a tablet and email the work back to the home machines easily enough.

      --
      "That is not dead which can eternal lie...."
      Nimheil
    21. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by cchd · · Score: 1

      In my experience my mobile phone ceases to work when I power it off. I certainly don't need to go to Scotland for this (though a certain large white building on the Isle of Skye has certain attractions).

      --
      Sig, you mean I'm supposed to have a Sig????
    22. Re:is 100% coverage necessary? by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      The world nowadays

      There are a number of ways to interperate the phrase "the world" in the context you've given, but, just FYI, realize that (last I heard, which was last year) less than 30% of the world's population has even a phone in their home.

      I too believe that face-to-face contact will eventually become passe [when sufficiently good (video) conferencing software and bandwidth becomes ubiquitous], but most of the world's population is still very concerned about where their next meal (or winter's meals) will be coming from. For them, imagining a life with the internet is what's hard.

      I get what you're saying; it's just that you have to be careful when using broad terms like "the world", "always", etc. :)

  4. I'm envious by strook · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If only my college campus could have wireless access comparable to Estonia's. And I go to Berkeley, you'd think it would look more like the future by now.

    This is America, we're supposed to have the best of everything at the mere cost of selling our souls. So how come I don't get free wireless internet? How come we're 10th in percent of the population with broadband access? I blame monopolistic business practices. Wake me up when SBC finally opens their lines to competitors like they were allegedly forced to years ago.

    --

    "TV is great! Every New Year's I make a resolution to watch more TV." - Ann Coulter

    1. Re:I'm envious by ectoraige · · Score: 4, Funny

      we're supposed to have the best of everything at the mere cost of selling our souls. So how come I don't get free wireless internet?

      Sadly, souls aren't the valued commodity they once were. Too many people selling, the market is over-supplied. Now mini-iPods, you sell yours, you'll get your free wireless...

      --
      Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, ybt bss abj. Tb bhgfvqr. Syl n xvgr.
    2. Re:I'm envious by pubjames · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is America, we're supposed to have the best of everything

      You don't have the best of everything. We've got stuff here in Europe you don't:

      1) Yummy chocolate.
      2) Castles! Real ones! We've got lots of them!

      And, erm. That's it. But isn't that enough?

      Bet you're jealous about the castles...

    3. Re:I'm envious by tarunthegreat2 · · Score: 1, Funny

      The Indian food is better in UK. Plus we also drive on the better side of the rd. Finally, Nokia cellphones sold in Europe/Asia beat the crap out of any mobiles you get in America.

    4. Re:I'm envious by wfberg · · Score: 1

      Regarding your .sig ;
      I'll go fly one now..

      Damn you, Jesse!

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    5. Re:I'm envious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      and we can spell.

    6. Re:I'm envious by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      This is America, we're supposed to have the best of everything

      Says who? It's no law of nature. You certainly don't have the best public healthcare, and the overall quality of life indexes are highest in the Nordic countries. And don't get me started on the quality of the USA's polical processes.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    7. Re:I'm envious by rozz · · Score: 0
      This is America, we're supposed to have the best of everything

      i won't worry if i were you ... at least you people have the BIGGEST of everything!

      --
      "There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
    8. Re:I'm envious by basingwerk · · Score: 1
      > we're supposed to have the best of everything

      Americans have the _most_ of everything (e.g. debt and polution) not the best.

      --
      I stole this .sig
    9. Re:I'm envious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, right...
      And something which deserves the name "Democracy".

    10. Re:I'm envious by Lucius+Septimius+Sev · · Score: 1
      Says who? It's no law of nature. You certainly don't have the best public healthcare, and the overall quality of life indexes are highest in the Nordic countries. And don't get me started on the quality of the USA's polical processes.

      When nordic nations state owned oil companies run out of oil to drill and sell we will see how long you have that "free" healthcare. :)

    11. Re:I'm envious by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 1

      When nordic nations state owned oil companies run out of oil to drill and sell we will see how long you have that "free" healthcare. :)

      1) Nobody said it was free. It's self-evidently not. However much of Europe has heathcare available to all, funded by tax. And you know what? For all they bicker about just how to run it, they wouldn't give it up. Not for anything. Any political party that proposed abolishing publix healthcare would be comitting electoral suicide.

      2) When speaking of public heathcare I was not thinking exclusively of Nordic countries, which you characterise as oil-rich. I could mention the UK's NHS, but better avoid that. Um, France I believe has a particularly good one.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    12. Re:I'm envious by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      No, I'm jealous about the Sweedish bikini team.
      And we can import chocolate.

      --

      ___
      It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
    13. Re:I'm envious by digitalgiblet · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      You are absolutely right! Let me go on the record as saying that things here are in such a horrific state that EVERYONE in EVERY other country in the WHOLE WORLD is better off where they are and will only be doing themselves a HORRIBLE disservice if they try to move here.

      Do yourself a favor and STAY HOME. We'll muddle through all these awful, awful things here so YOU DON'T HAVE TO. It's the least we can do...

    14. Re:I'm envious by kinzillah · · Score: 1

      1. For some inexplicable reason, the Europeans I've talked to really like Hershey chocolate, which is crazy because its crap compared to most European chocolate I've tried. Guess the grass is always greener.

      2. Didn't some guy buy a castle, take it apart and reassemble it here? :)

      --
      Douglas P. Price
    15. Re:I'm envious by kabocox · · Score: 1

      No, I'm jealous about the Sweedish bikini team.
      And we can import chocolate.


      In Soviet Russia, you would be jealous about their chocolate and import the Sweedish bikini team.

    16. Re:I'm envious by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      Nonsense, US chocolate tastes like chemicals. Disgusting crap. Now, your chocolate milk on the other hand is delicious!

    17. Re:I'm envious by basingwerk · · Score: 1
      > Guess the grass is always greener.

      That's another thing - the grass is much stronger in Europe, and not criminal in Spain, Holland or (since April) the UK.

      --
      I stole this .sig
    18. Re:I'm envious by basingwerk · · Score: 1
      > things here are in such a horrific state

      Where are you - Iraq or Afganistan?

      --
      I stole this .sig
    19. Re:I'm envious by ectoraige · · Score: 1

      You've the honour(?) of being the first to say so...

      --
      Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, ybt bss abj. Tb bhgfvqr. Syl n xvgr.
  5. Neste by rasjani · · Score: 3, Informative
    Just a sidenote, Neste is not Estonian company. Its Finnish company, part of the bigger Fortum concern.
    Links:
    --
    yush
    1. Re:Neste by targo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just a sidenote, Neste is not Estonian company

      Neither is Statoil. I believe the phrase "Estonia's major oil companies" should be read as "major oil companies operating in Estonia".

  6. Statoil by blcamp · · Score: 3, Informative


    And Statoil is not Estonian, either.

    It is Norwegian.

    http://www.statoil.com/

    --
    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
    1. Re:Statoil by KjetilK · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and in Norway, there are hotspots on every Statoil gas station too, but they are expensive... :-(

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
  7. Wardriving for dead-spots!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    That's not how to do it :-)

    1. Re:Wardriving for dead-spots!! by CdBee · · Score: 1

      Well, if like Obviousguy you disllike being surrounded by technology, it's no bad notion.....

      --
      I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
  8. Free internet access for how long? by grisken · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Companies like statoil (which is a norwegian state owned company) might release this service as free in a certain "test" period. But i doubt they wont charge people for this if wi-fi really takes off. Statoil did this in norway too. You coud access free wifi hotspots, but after a couple of months you had to pay for it. (About a dollar pr. mb transferred). Though Estonia and Norway are two different countries (here, gas makes only for 13% of gas stations income profits. The biggest is actualy sousages and soda)... but as i said. Im skeptical.

    1. Re:Free internet access for how long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in Estonia and I guess, that the wifi cost is probably in the gas price and they support the service with their profit. So if you tank and don't use internet, then you have to blame yourself, as you have paid for the service anyway.

    2. Re:Free internet access for how long? by grisken · · Score: 1

      Ok, but if you read my post im talking about prior experiences made with the same oil company which is providing free access to the internet in your country now. What im saying is that they might not do that in the future if this gets popular and/or the costs of maintaining this service exceeds the cost budget becouse of this. We are not talking about state subsided internet access here, but private companies offering this as a gesture. Maybe temporarily, maybe not. All i say is that its a good thing to question the motives of people bent on making money from others.

  9. This doesn't add up at all. by amitofu · · Score: 0

    280 hotspots cover 2/3 of the country? I knew Estonia was, but sheesh.

    1. Re:This doesn't add up at all. by amitofu · · Score: 1

      was small, that is.

    2. Re:This doesn't add up at all. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      small
      As is your penis. Use the Preview button, dumbass.
  10. umm, isn't something wrong here? by jpu8086 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    how in the world do 280 public hot spots cover two-thirds of a country (that is 45,226 sq km in area)?

    what is the technology behind these super hot spots? or is this just another case of aggrandized mathematics?

    --
    now supporting:
    cmdrTaco for president '04
    michael for oval office intern summer '05
    1. Re:umm, isn't something wrong here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep, its wrong, the article only says that 2/3 of them are free. I am living in Estonia, and there are plans to cover our capital - Tallinn - with free wifi access.

      But the hotspots are ubiquotuous here - and clearly marked. So when you come to visit, dont forget your laptops.

    2. Re:umm, isn't something wrong here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm Estonian from Tallinn and most certainly it's not true that 2/3 of the country has been covered by wireless internet. What mr. Haamer was meaning was probably that in 2/3 of the country you're able too find a spot where you can use wifi. Whether it's a gas station, hotel, cafe etc. A quite big part of the country is covered by forests and there it would be very difficult to find any urban comforts, not only wifi :-)
      In the capital, Tallinn wifi spots are quite easy to find, but many of them are not free. No coverage on the streets yet, but the city authorities are planning to cover some parks in the center with wifi.

    3. Re:umm, isn't something wrong here? by Lurker+McLurker · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they mean two-thirds of the population. Which in a small country could live in only a few towns and cities.

      --
      Mod parent up!
    4. Re:umm, isn't something wrong here? by istaz · · Score: 1

      the next question is how many estonian possess portable computers? or wifi equipped pda? laptop to me is still considered a luxury item.

      --
      ...don't have one yet...
    5. Re:umm, isn't something wrong here? by timjdot · · Score: 1

      That's the same story I found in San Francisco. The wireless is at some coffee shops and expensive. Even back in Columbia, SC I could find some 70 free access points in one afternoon. It's a cultural thing as SF is so expensive that I conclude everything must be billed for and as much as possible. But the Wireless ISP model is coming and coming fast. Companies being willing to set up free infrastructure in order to gain market share portend a real death to fixed connections for most of us. Also, the infrastructure costs for wireless just are not that much compared with $300k phone switches and all. Getting the access rights to the top of one of the largest buildings in town is probably the highest cost!!! I did a survey of rolling out a WISP in 98 and another a few months ago... the issue is the populous is fragmented with a significant % not using the Internet, most not knowing much but just dialup works, and the rest willing to do wireless but ignorant of how to set up networking. Viva La Revolution... more Internet everywhere! TimJOwers

      --
      Expect Freedom.
  11. In related news... by lastberserker · · Score: 4, Funny

    Countries of Vatican and Luksemburg quickly followed the lead and covered their respective territories by Wi-Fi access points. One per country.

    --
    My other Beowulf cluster is... er...
    1. Re:In related news... by stud9920 · · Score: 2, Informative

      First it's Luxembourg and second, it's 5000 times greater than the City of Vatican

    2. Re:In related news... by Eevee · · Score: 1

      So you'd need two access points?

    3. Re:In related news... by zorglubxx · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Your math is screwed up dude, go back to college.

  12. Re: Estonia Embraces Wi-Fi Wireless Internet Acces by manavendra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not sure where this is leading to. Certainly other /.'ers haven't said much about this. Yet.

    Education is declared a human right in several countries, specifically the developing countries, but do they get it? Even with government-funded schools and subsidies? Isn't this a case of stuff-in-your-face?

    OTOH, it's good to have Wi-Fi access points at as many places possible. This is truly a step towards the ever-shrinking, connected, global society. But then again, what would be the impacts? How will such a culture change us? With easier and faster access, it isn't far when the only sport would be "surfing" - and the one that doesn't involve any boards !

    --
    http://efil.blogspot.com/
  13. Mission Impossible by dutt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's got to be a hell of a job to try and administer a fully open network, covering 2/3 rds of a country.

    Just imagine how tight you would have to have the security, and even then it would be hard to keep control over it all.

    Administration of it all sounds like a impossible mission. We'll maybe not impossible, but very hard.

    1. Re:Mission Impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Just imagine how tight you would have to have the security, and even then it would be hard to keep control over it all.

      And why would you have to control and administer it?!?!?! Isn't the idea to try to get heterogenous groups of individuals and companies create hotspots, NOT to create big homogenous network owned by a single entity? That wouldn't be very Open would it?

  14. Estonia hey? by m4k3r · · Score: 2, Funny

    Estonia hey...

    that's an aweful lot of pringles cans I'm gonna need for free net.

  15. A new threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Estonia and the other EU countries are increasingly becoming a new threat. With the rise of statism, how much longer until we are all under a single world government? The implications for liberty and privacy are worrying. Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer indeed.

    1. Re:A new threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe there is a need for something like this... We've got to have something to put up against America.

    2. Re:A new threat by upside · · Score: 2

      Baaah, statism has been dying for a decade. Estonia is the most liberal country in the EU, at least in terms of the economy. Flat tax rate, no company tax etc.

      A threat to what, I may add.

      --
      I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
    3. Re:A new threat by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      There is a company tax, it's just very low. As is corporate tax in Ireland, at 12.5%. It's arguable that Britain or Ireland or Slovakia are equally as liberal as Estonia, if not more so...

    4. Re:A new threat by virx · · Score: 0

      No, there is NO company tax. There was 5% company tax, but it was abolished several years ago.

    5. Re:A new threat by easter1916 · · Score: 1
      From a March 26th article in the Moscow Times:
      Estonia was the first European country to set a flat tax on corporate profits and has zero tax on reinvested earnings, yielding an effective corporate tax rate that Kallas put at about 6 percent.
      So there.
  16. Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    First, I live in Estonia.

    The claim of 2/3 coverage is of course nonsense. I don't know where this came from. The BBC article tells that 2/3 are free to use (although I don't think it's true, maybe it was so half a year ago), not that 2/3 of the country is covered.

    1. Re:Not true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point, I got 5 access points in my house and this folks claim they covered the entire country with 280 hot-spots!

    2. Re:Not true. by TheBoostedBrain · · Score: 1

      Why don't you move to other 1/3 of the country?

      --
      -- When did Ignorance Become a Point of View?
  17. wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am astounded by all the angsty anti-technology comments here.

  18. Spammers paradise? by holgie · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Wouldn't this make it spammers paradise? Or is there some sort of authentication?
    There are 2 Kinds of planes: Fighters, and targets.
    There are 2 Kinds of boats: Submarines, and targets.
    There are 2 Kinds of 4x4's: Jeeps and SOB's (Some other brand)
    There are 2 Kinds of OS's: Unix, and brain-farts.
    1. Re:Spammers paradise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what about Windows? isn't that an OS?

  19. My personal perspectives. by yess · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I live in Poland, about 10 hours far from Estonia. Now I know, where to emigrate, when my government finally goes to hell with the rest of the country, or at least tries to legislate something similar to DMCA.

    I feel a kind of sad, when I see similar opportunities wasted here in Poland, where Internet access is still a luxury due to TP S.A. - national telecommunication monopoly.

    At least once both Estonia and Poland are in the EU emigrating won't be that hard... ;)

    1. Re:My personal perspectives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I live in Poland, about 10 hours far from Estonia. Now I know, where to emigrate, when my government finally goes to hell with the rest of
      > the country, or at least tries to legislate something similar to DMCA.

      I live in the U.S.A., about 10 hour flight away from Poland. You mean your government hasn't driven your country to hell yet, and still doesn't have a DMCA-alike? Holy shit!

      Okay, let me know when you're emigrating to Estonia dude. I'm moving into your vacated home in Poland!! Um, what are the visa requirements for U.S. citizens?

    2. Re:My personal perspectives. by EuropeanSwallow · · Score: 1

      Sorry to sour your milk, but with the upcomming European Constitution, it won't be your government's task to legislate it! It will be a EU decision affecting you, Estonia and everybody else...

    3. Re:My personal perspectives. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least once both Estonia and Poland are in the EU

      Isn't that true allready for a week or so?

  20. Not improbable by upside · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I saw a TV programme that featured a teacher who has become hypersenstive to electomagnetic radiation. He can't get close to mobile phones or computers or he becomes ill. Apparently copy machines are the worst.

    --
    I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
    1. Re:Not improbable by Short+Circuit · · Score: 1

      Was this a journalism "feature"? I'm wondering if they were looking for something to hype, and didn't perform a proper test.

      Of course, when you're filming for a TV show, you don't want to cut production half way through on accound of a lack of proper evidence. You'll have already spent a good deal on equipment, crew, and possibly props.

  21. Re: Estonia Embraces Wi-Fi Wireless Internet Acces by cozziewozzie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Education is declared a human right in several countries, specifically the developing countries, but do they get it? Even with government-funded schools and subsidies? Isn't this a case of stuff-in-your-face?

    It is, and it should be. Education is not just a basic human right, but also a basic human responsibility towards others. If you don't want to learn how to live in a civilised society, go live in a cave somewhere.

    I pity all the people who don't have access to free education, or are denied it all over the world, while some fat kids from rich countries think it is their right to sit in front of the TV and never learn to spell. Let them eat cake, I say.

  22. Estonia this and Estonia that... by orlinius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems that every other day there is a big article or TV show that reveals how advanced Estonia is in every hi-tech domain.
    Let's just not forget that Estonia is a really tiny country with a population slightly over 1 million people.
    It is very easy to introduce such initiatives on such a small scale.
    Most of Paris has free Wi-Fi now offered by the Paris municipality, and this in terms of population is bigger than Estonia. I don't see anyone bragging about it.
    The other day they showed on TV how advanced Estonia is. You can pay your parking lot or buy flowers by SMS. Wow, that's really advanced and even if it so, I don't see how practical it can be. Come on, lose 2 minutes to type and SMS instead of paying by cash or credit card....

    --

    A hungry bear does not dance!
    1. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. I live in Estonia and it is actually very hard to earn money with high-tech systems or even by making web pages. Why? Because our population is only 1.4 mio. We'd like to do much more "sci-fi" thingies.. but there just aren't enough consumers to cover the expenses.

      If someone asked me, if it is easier to implement new technologies in Estonia or some bigger country... I would definetely say "the bigger the better".

    2. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can pay your parking lot or buy flowers by SMS. Wow, that's really advanced and even if it so, I don't see how practical it can be. Come on, lose 2 minutes to type and SMS instead of paying by cash or credit card....

      I would personally find that VERY useful.

      For a start, carrying change is cumbersome, most parking machines don't accept notes, and you can never be 100% sure if you have the right amount of change on you (or in the right denominations). Once I went to my favourite parking lot and found the price had gone to 5 from 4. I had 4 of change on me. So I went back to my car (a few minutes' walk in this particular lot) and scrambled around and found a pile of change which got me to the 5. Then I went back to the machine and put in it.. but after 20 coins it wouldn't let me put in any more!! This forced me to find a shop, buy something I didn't even want, just so I could get some change (how else do you get change? change machines are not common in the UK)

      And credit card? Gee, the only parking that takes credit cards is when you book it, or if you use some fancy expensive place downtown. For general parking, forget it. You need your change, or else.. and in a society where otherwise you never need to carry notes or change, it's ridiculous you still need it to park.

      Estonia has got it right.

    3. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by mvendelin · · Score: 1

      At least paying for parking is very practical. You don't need to
      decide in forehand for how long do you park, for example. Usually, you
      have this SMS saved in the phone and you send it when you are on the
      way from you car already. If you have Nokia, you can instead of SMS browse a
      special menu and park using it (at least if you are Radiolinja GSM
      client). When you come back to your car, you call a special
      number to finish the parking. Simple and very convenient! I am really
      missing the possibility for parking by SMS in France (as well as our
      advanced online banking).

    4. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by horza · · Score: 1

      The other day they showed on TV how advanced Estonia is. You can pay your parking lot or buy flowers by SMS. Wow, that's really advanced and even if it so, I don't see how practical it can be. Come on, lose 2 minutes to type and SMS instead of paying by cash or credit card....

      Would you rather lose those minutes whilst walking to where you want to go, or would you rather lose those minutes stuck in a queue?

      Phillip.

    5. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      estonia is a COUNTRY, paris is one single f@#$%^& city in the big and powerful france. considering the scales its quite mentionable for one little country to push on the hi tech front like that. but all that bragging in the media about how 1337 we are actually makes me feel ashamed. think im gonna move to australia.

      but sms parking and also sms bus tickets are pretty neat gimmicks.

    6. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      I spent Christmas in Pigalle and Montmartre and couldn't find a single bloody hotspot. I'm sick of hearing about Estonia too, no disrespect intended to the Estonians. It's just media hype...

    7. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by orlinius · · Score: 1

      Actually in Paris the parking machines don't accept coins anymore. You have to buy a special card that you can refill.
      There were too many broken machines by the Romanian mafia.

      --

      A hungry bear does not dance!
    8. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm living in Estonia.

      Paying for your parking by SMS is extremely convienient - you don't have to type in an SMS every time, you may also call a 4-digit number and the counter is started. To end the parking - call another 4-digit number.

      I often start parking before actually stopping, it save me time. No need to buy any tickets if you're out of them. No wasted tickets (because parking is free in the evening and the counter is paused for that period).

      You could learn something from it.

    9. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by orlinius · · Score: 1

      All the McDonald's restaurants in France offer free Wi-Fi access. There are about 100 of those in Paris alone.
      I know a lot of foreign correspondents use them just to send their article. This is in case they are far from their hotel. Most of the hotels have Wi-Fi, as one might expect.

      --

      A hungry bear does not dance!
    10. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      Please tell me... who goes to Paris to eat in a McDonalds?!?!? That is just... awful. Even Quickburger (or is it Quikburger) is marginally better. My hotel did not offer wifi access, although there was a public terminal in the reception area.

    11. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by orlinius · · Score: 1
      A lot of students that come to visit Paris don't have the money for a good restaurant. It's quite expensive to be e a tourist in Paris.
      Also, contrary to what you might expect, McDonald's France is the most profitable McDonald's in Europe. The French head of McDonalds is believed to become the CEO of the European if not the World operations after the chairman and chief executive officer of McDonald's, Jim Cantalupo, recently died of an apparent heart attack at the age of 60.

      What's This? The French Love McDonald's?

      But this is way off-topic...

      --

      A hungry bear does not dance!
    12. Re:Estonia this and Estonia that... by easter1916 · · Score: 1

      I'm Irish and I lived in the Paris suburbs (Antony) for two years. I'm quite familiar with Parisian life. I'd welcome a Frenchman at the head of McDonalds, they had nice fresh salads available there in 1992, long before anywhere else that I'm aware of. I'm no McDo-hater, it's just that when in Paris, I tend to avail of the other excellent, excellent sources of cheap, good food that are available.

  23. OT: the problem with Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The problem here is evident in the way you phrased your post. The right should be quiet and let the loud and wrong walk all over them. This is why the Yakuza is as strong as they are, this is why the streets are littered with bags of garbage.

    In the west we have the saying "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing". However in Japan, the emphasis on minding one's own business and keeping one's hands clean is an overarching theme. Because of this, no one is willing to put up a fight when the time demands it, whether it be taking back a neighborhood from gangsters, admonishing children who are acting up in public with no supervision, or even something simple as demanding that the police do something about grafitti.

    Rather than do something proactive, the Japanese would rather put up a little sign encouraging everyone to play nice. I drive along 357 between Tokyo and Makuhari frequently and see the trash along the side of the road. This is household stuff, in garbage bags. It isn't your absentmindedly tossed pet bottle or coffee can. The signs they put up recently encourage us, "michi wo kirei ni shimashoo" - "let's keep the street clean".

    This kind of passivity encourages the wrong-doers because they know that there is no penalty for doing wrong. Whether it be tossing trash on the road, harrassing other train riders, or driving unmuffled motorcycles through neighborhoods at 3 in the morning, there is no penalty. Anything can be done with impunity in Japan, you just have to have the right attitude. No one will confront you, and no one will take steps to prevent you from doing it again.

    I think it is a cultural flaw that this kind of heiwa-boke exists in Japan. If telling off a woman who is harrassing everyone on the train is wrong, then I don't want to be right.

    1. Re:OT: the problem with Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In the west we have the saying "all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing".

      Ah, yes, the White Man's Burden. That kind of attitude is the cause of the Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo wars. And those places sure are safer today!

    2. Re:OT: the problem with Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the wrong-doers

      For god's sake, they're litterers, not terrorists!

  24. Old Map by ChronoWiz · · Score: 1

    I can't find Estonia on my Cold War era globe.

    In Soviet Russia, free wireless internet is accessible by you!

  25. Why did I click that link?? by Ceriel+Nosforit · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Why did I click that link?? Now THEY've got my IP. Gotta hide... gotta hide!

    --
    All rites reversed 2010
  26. An over-reaction to freedom from tyranny? by tiger99 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    This seems to me to be a little bit excessive, unnecessary, and making it a human rights issue seems to me to be an excessive but understandable reaction to having emerged from the horrific opression of communism.

    In the UK we do not have full cellphone coverage, the fact that there are 5 competing operators makes it even less economically viable to equip remote or mountainous areas where, perversely, they are more likely to be needed in cases of genuine emergency. Having full internet coverage by any means, except maybe by hovering airships, which is being seriously considered to cover rural areas, is simply impossible. Maybe Estonia has suddenly become very rich, if so, well and good, but I think in most countries there would be more pressing needs. Nonetheless technically it is quite an achievement to have got so far, and I am impressed.

    So why can't my cable company, NTL, give me broadband? I live in London, the largest city in the UK, if not Europe. It really makes me sick, maybe I should move to Estonia, or make it a human rights issue when we are freed from the horrific oppression of Blairism.

  27. Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU states? by Peter+Cooper · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Okay, Poland has the people and the position, but I'd say Estonia is the most promising of the new ex-Soviet EU states.

    Ten years ago, as I read on the BBC, only 15% of homes in the country had a regular phone! Now they have wireless internet, the majority of people have cellphones, and quite a few people speak English. The government has radically pushed away from Soviet norms in implementing low business taxes, and is fostering a great environment for new businesses. And from what I've learned through the CIA Factbook and the BBC, Estonia has a very low crime rate and chicks who look like this. Per capita income is also still low, so employees would be cheap. The country also looks pretty.

    The downsides? It's darn cold in Winter, and it's not cheap to fly to (yet).

    Still, it looks like Estonia is a promising little nation who understands the concepts of the free market and capitalism in generating better living conditions.. and if I had to choose one of the new EU states to live in.. well, Estonia looks the most promising for those in business.

  28. Rights by kwilliams · · Score: 0

    Who needs Life, Liberty, and Property when you can have the Internet? James Madison really missed the boat on that one.

    1. Re:Rights by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 1

      How about "Freedom of the press belongs to whomever owns the press?"

      --

      ___
      It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
    2. Re:Rights by kunudo · · Score: 1

      Silvio Berlusconi you mean?

  29. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by nuffle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's not that cold. Well, depends on what you're used to, of course, but this past winter here (my first in Estonia) was comparable to the ones from the Midwest in the US. It got a little colder, but less snowfall. In any case, I don't want people to get the impression it's Arctic cold.

    And yes, as software engineer living in Estonia, I can say that the economy seems very promising for the tech industry. Wifi all over country may not be that necessary, but its indicitave of the investment that the government and industy is willing to make in popularizing tech. Also, the people here are generally quite tech savvy. No checks in Estonia; everything is bank-to-bank transfer done generally through the internet (most people (literally) use internet banking here).

    And just to complete the brochure here, it's a very pretty country. I live in the capital, Tallinn, which is a pretty hip town, especially in the warmer months. It's got an old downtown with beautiful medieval age architecture, but with a lot of good restaurants and bars and shops. The countryside is also pretty, relaxing, and easy to get to. Finally, every thing is dirt cheap (compared to America). Oh, and yes, the parent poster is correct: Estonia has the most beautiful women in Europe. The sidewalks may as well be runways; it's uncanny.

  30. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by barbazoo · · Score: 1, Informative

    Low crime rate?! I have to call bullshit:
    8th worst nation for murders
    5th worst nation for robberies

  31. reply to name by PsiPsiStar · · Score: 0

    amitofu = "buddist" monk in Chinese?
    Or do I misinterpret

    --

    ___
    It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
  32. slashdot covered??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    since when does slashdot have a real news team??? I thought slashdot was just a bunch of little babies that like to invent MS bashing stories, or imply that the world is under MS control...all for the hope to make linux look better (can't linux grow up and mature without the slashdot immaturity tarnishing its reputation??)

  33. I thought the title said "Elbonia" by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    Elbonia.

    -ted

  34. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get a cheap flight to Sweden or Finland and then boat to Estonia. That's what I always do... (except when I don't...)

  35. E-stonian government has gone hi-tech by wwwillem · · Score: 1

    Even the Estonian government has gone hi-tech. Cabinet ministers meet weekly in a room fitted with more than a dozen high-end computers, complete with flat screen monitors and broadband connections.

    Ahhh, so when the meeting gets boring, they can surf the web and check their /. karma. :-)

    --
    Browsers shouldn't have a back button!! It's all about going forward...
    1. Re:E-stonian government has gone hi-tech by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      Even the Estonian government has gone hi-tech. Cabinet ministers meet weekly in a room fitted with more than a dozen high-end computers, complete with flat screen monitors and broadband connections.

      Hip equipment doesn't mean much. When I see our Russian cabinet meetings on TV, they usually sit in a room full of Vaio's, and nobody ever seems to do anything with the laptops, except using them as personal screens for centralized presentations. That doesn't make them any more tech-aware.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
  36. Dogbert was right... by atlacatl · · Score: 1
    And all this time I thought Estonia was a creation of Dilbert - Who would have thunk it?

    I agree with posts above - 100% Wi-Fi coverage is not necessary. I hate looking at a laptop monitor outdoors. You can't see anything anyway - And all that dust...

    Malls, buildings, bus/train/plain statations YES

    Parks/supermarkets NO

    --
    Esta es una firma en Espanol.
    1. Re:Dogbert was right... by cr0sh · · Score: 1

      Isn't it "Elbonia"?

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  37. Technological Advances by Flashpot · · Score: 0, Troll
    I didn't think Elbonia's technology base was that advanced. What happened in the last 7 years?

    What? Estonia? Oh, all right then.

    Nevermind...

    --
    That which does not kill her only prolongs my agony.
  38. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by danila · · Score: 1

    Well, it might look that way from the US, but the reality is different. Estonia gets a lot of money from tranist of oil and other goods from Russia to Europe. And not because they add a lot of value, they are just located properly. Expect this to stop as soon as Russia finishes its own terminals on the Baltic sea. Second huge source of money in Estonia was Swedish and Finnish capital. These countries were very eager to invest in this little friendly country when it because independent, but it's not like they got huge profits from that. And the boom is certainly over. So there is really nothing radically great about Estonian economy and, while things like e-voting and better than average wifi coverage are good, they do not make it a high-tech heaven or something.

    --
    Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  39. STATOIL by easter1916 · · Score: 1

    Statoil is Norwegian, not Estonian. It's the Norwegian State Oil Company, and Norway is the only European country that is a major, major oil exporter.

  40. You fail the mobile commerce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It costs more. The operators take their share. Costs more, takes more time. Is it gonna live? No.

  41. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're forgetting that Estonia is getting everything from the EU, that's the only reason it may appear to be the "most promising" - through handouts, which it got from the EU before it even joined!

  42. A few comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm also a software engineer in Tallinn, like another poster. To address a few of the points:

    - As someone else mentioned, 2/3 of the land area of the country isn't covered. You could actually make an argument that 2/3 of the population is in a WiFi area, but that's mainly because 2/3 of the population lives in the 2 largest cities (Tallinn and Tartu). At least for me, when I travel to another town in Estonia, I check the wifi.ee website to see where the nearest WiFi point is in that area, so I can get on the Net.

    - I've been in the room where the cabinet ministers conduct business, and it really is a computer at each minister's seat. I haven't seen a live session so I can't say how much they use them, but apparently they are used to distribute information (instead of printing out lengthy documents).

    - The places that charge for WiFi are not that pricey. It's usually about 70 eurocents to use it for a 24-hour period. You just fire up your browser and try to go to a URL and you end up at a webpage that tells you to SMS a certain number and it'll SMS you back with a password. The nice thing about it is almost all for-pay WiFi points are run by the same company (Uninet), and your password works at all Uninet access points during that period. I jump from coffee shop to coffee shop. You can also buy a monthly contract with Uninet, but that's only useful if you use for-pay access points very frequently.

    - Very few of the access points have any type of security, and some even have open mail relays. I don't think this has caused any problems, maybe because of the type of person who would use the access points (business people, students), but it may become an issue in the future. I'm sure there will be some sort of uproar when someone tries to hack into something while using a public access point. But the risks are also there in a public internet cafe, since they don't check your ID there either.

    - Yes it's correct that part of the reason Estonia is "high-tech" because it's easy to implement things like this in a country of only 1.4 million people. But I wouldn't say that's a negative point. In some ways, the country can serve as a testbed before rolling new technologies out in other countries. Is it wrong that the government promotes the internet? I don't think it is.

    - I don't buy these doomsday predictions about how it's so bad to have WiFi coverage in so many places. Don't use it if you don't want to. I work at home, and usually at least one day a week I'll go out for lunch (at a WiFi-enabled place of course), then hop around to different WiFi hotspots through the day, as I work. It works great for me.

    - The price of setting up a hotspot isn't that bad. You just need the WiFi access point and a DSL line, which can cost as little as 30 EUR per month. A lot of businesses already have DSL anyway, so then it's just the one-time cost of the access point. For instance, I'm pretty sure those petrol stations already had DSL on premises, so it wasn't a big deal to add the access point.

    - The crime statistics for Estonia are slightly out of proportion for 2 reasons: 1. The population is somewhat small, so the percentages are greatly affected by a few abnormal events (law of large numbers). 2. There are some areas with very high crime, that throw things out of proportion. These areas tend to be areas where unemployment is high, which usually means the areas where native Russian speakers live (because most jobs require that you speak Estonian -- long story). The areas with the WiFi access points, in Tallinn for example, are not in those areas. I've lived in major cities in the US and in Tallinn, and Tallinn feels much safer. Like most European cities, you don't have to worry about some guy shoving a gun in your face, because guns are difficult to obtain. I do watch out for pickpockets on the public transport (oh, and you can buy tickets or monthly passes for public transport using SMS also).

  43. Semi-OT question by Stray7Xi · · Score: 1

    Is there any research into bridging these wireless routers? I imagine this would be a nightmare for routing algorithms without being able to use subnets for routing... What kind of routing algorithms would be useful for this?

    Yea it'd be a ton of hops between wireless routers just to travel across Estonia but still it'd be cool to do it without the need for ISP's at any portion of the trip.

    1. Re:Semi-OT question by welsh+git · · Score: 1
      It's already beyond the research stage. Such an automated system is already available, for a FREE DOWNLOAD too - they also sell ready-built integrated systems. Wireless VOIP is included too. There is also a "IANA" type service for allocating wireless routable IP addresses (though these aren't internet routable - a gateway would be needed)

      See:

      http://www.locustworld.com/ and http://www.communitywireless.org/

      Mesh networking provides an innovative method to build complex data networks very easily. Using the intelligence of each component, meshing helps them to join into a self-organising structure. This approach differs from the traditional "top-down" design of data networks, and provides many benefits, including flexibility, speed and ease of management, making it very easy to deploy widespread networks with low overheads.

      Mesh Networking is particularly suited to wireless networks, where the connections can't be predicted in the same way as a wired network, catering for mobile nodes, instant growth and unpredictable variations in reception and coverage.

      Mesh networking builds up a wide spread multi-hop network making connections between neighbouring nodes on demand. Once connected the nodes can explore the network and establish their routes through it, finding the resources that they need automatically.

      The LocustWorld Mesh uses a public networking standard AODV, to build the mesh. AODV, Ad hoc, On demand, Distance Vector, published by NIST, is recognised as a leading standard for wireless mesh networking. The LocustWorld mesh router is available as a software package and as a hardware device, and it is widely used to deliver wireless broadband networking in challenging terrain.

      As each mesh node is autonomous, discovering routes on demand, there is no central control to act as a bottle neck. As the network grows the routing task for each node does not grow exponentially, as they only build routes to the resources that they need. Routes are established on demand, and un-used routes are flushed out after a short time.

      If one route becomes un-workable then the node will automatically seek out another, providing self-healing structure and removing the reliance on single points of potential failure.

      The LocustWorld MeshAP implements wireless mesh networking within a package of features that provide practical support for internet service provision. Mesh networking is not dependent upon any particular physical networking connection. LocustWorld currently support 802.11, Bluetooth and Ethernet. Many other wireless and wired networks are suitable for meshing, and the MeshAP can support them as demand for them develops.

      Meshing is a fundamentally different approach to routing through networks, and does not follow the conventions of network design. In a mesh network nodes get given their basic rules of the road, and then they are left to establish their connections autonomously. The node may discover many potential routes through the network, and it will select the most suitable route based upon the shortest distance to reach the other node. Other criteria, such as the quality of the connection, can influence the decision, but ultimately the router decides on the routes itself, and the manager only provides the ground rules.

      Meshing delivers networks that are:

      Self Organising - each node works the routing out for itself, saving time and effort in administration

      Wide Ranging - multi-hop networks extend wireless range around obstacles and over greater distances.

      Scalable - just add more nodes. The routing configuration is automatic, and there is no exponential rise in complexity as the network grows.

      Resilient - The self organising functions run continuously, so when changes occur to connections and reception the mesh will automatically re-route around blockages in real time.

      Affordable - Each

      --
      Sig out of date
  44. Wardriving Estonia? by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    Any wardrivers out there? It would be nice to check out the place. We don't have any wardriving data uploaded from our users at WiFiMaps.com. Wonder how quickly wardrivers can band together, and observe things like this.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:Wardriving Estonia? by zcougar · · Score: 1

      Look at www.wigle.net

  45. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    No checks in Estonia; everything is bank-to-bank transfer done generally through the internet (most people (literally) use internet banking here).

    True, and same goes for most of the rest of Europe; at least in scandinavia checks were last used in early 80s or so. They were made obsolete by ATMs with which you can pay bills (transfer money from your account to specific account by company receiving money, always listed in the bill; additionally specifying a reference id also included) in addition to withdrawing money. And no need for specific contract between you and company, to enable such payments (except if you wanted to do fully automatic payment etc). Move to Internet banking was quite naturally after that.

  46. Re:Estonia, most promising of new ex-USSR EU state by Eemeez · · Score: 1

    "Ten years ago, as I read on the BBC, only 15% of homes in the country had a regular phone!" I've heard this before. As the regular phones were very cheap, many familys had their in home. Actual percentage would be like 85 % or more.

  47. What is Estonia? by toddhisattva · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Is it a shopping center, a mall, real estate development?

  48. And the good part is: by kunudo · · Score: 1

    We (Norwegians) own Statoil. Herlig å være norsk... :)

  49. Estonia rocks by BignUgly · · Score: 1

    The women are gorgeous, the politics liberal, and the living cheap. Throw in free Wifi and its the best place to live I can think of. I've already applied for residency.

  50. your data is BULSHIT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I live in Estonia and I can assure your data from
    the www.natiomaster.com SUCKS bigtime.

    I can really see you have no idea aboout life in Estonia if you believe those statistics on that site are true - Estonia WOULD NOT BE a part of the European Union if the crime rate here is higher than in those poor coutries like Yemen ,Zimbabwe, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan -according to www.nationmaster.com - where do these jerks get their numbers from ?

    Come over here and see for yourself.