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Phantom Shows Pictures, Pricing, Huang Hire
HawKe writes "Audioholics reports today on details of Infinium Labs' new Phantom Gaming Service which is to be unveiled at this year's E3 in Los Angeles. The service looks to be geared towards a wider demographic rather than the hard core gamer, but for the price of included Phantom hardware (basically free) it appears to be a good compromise - the article explains the PC 'console' is 'free of charge to consumers who sign a two-year contract for a basic subscription to its flagship online gaming service at $29.95 per month. Consumers can also opt to buy this advanced gaming 'receiver' and required accessories without a commitment for $199'." S!: GameDaily also has a feature interviewing Infinium's Kevin Bachus, in which it's confirmed: "Infinium is concerned about protecting its IP and its consumers. To that end, Bachus and Infinium have hired Andrew Huang, the MIT grad student who gained fame for hacking the Xbox."
I have to ask, will Duke Nukem Forever be avalible on it?
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
Phantom Game Receiver(TM)
... no.
* AMD® Athlon(TM) XP 2500+ central processing unit (CPU)
* NVIDIA® GeForce(TM) FX 5700 Ultra graphics processing unit (GPU)
* NVIDIA® nForce(TM)2 Ultra 400 platform processor
* 256 MB RAM
* 40 GB local content cache
* Microsoft® Windows® XP Embedded Operating System
* Dynamic, personalized user interfaces customizable for age, gender or technical expertise
* Lapboard, mouse and game pad included
* HDTV and Dolby Digital 5.1 compatible
* Works any consumer-standard broadband Internet Service Provider (ISP): DSL or faster
This is different from a computer? How? There's nothing that would make me buy this, except for possibly the price. If it's as cheap as a GC I might consider
Infinium is concerned about protecting its IP and its consumers.
Right... those mod chips have a way of crawling into your home and installing themselves, ruining your valuable data. Better protect the consumers!
so this free console winds up costing me 718 dollars in the long run. Yeah, I'm all over that.
With those specs if it's cheap enough, why not just strip it for parts?
-Stu
Look whats at the bottom, I mean, how professional is this?
Safe Harbor Statement
Certain statements included in this press release may constitute forward-looking statements. Actual results could differ materially from such statements expressed or implied herein as a result of a variety of factors including, but not limited to: the development of the Infinium Labs technology, the successful marketing and distribution of the Phantom Gaming System, acceptance by the market of Infinium Labs, products and technology, competition and timing of projects and trends in the gaming industry, as well as other factors expressed from time to time in filings Infinium Labs will make with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC"). As a result, this press release should be read in conjunction with periodic filings Infinium Labs makes with the SEC. The forward looking statements contained herein are made only as of the date of this press release, and Infinium Labs undertakes no obligation to publicly update such forward looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances.
Anyways... those pictures look pretty manipulated, can't really say why. The lighting is way the hell too bright for one. And also, whats with that ONE cable on the front? First, it looks like it is in a different place in each of the pictures. Also, are they intending to sell a one controller console? I understand its for PC games, but even the XBOX has like 4 controllers.
Now, lets humor the guy for a moment, and ignore the past terrible PR, lack of evidence of a product, bandwidth costs for this guy to stream whole games, etc. Who would spend $30 a month for two years to rent a console? Thats $720! You could buy an XBOX, Gamecube, and PS2 for that price, and still have money for some games.
I'm suprised no one else has commented on the new design depicted in the article. They're definitely digital renderings.
So they missed their first proposed launch date, and have since scrapped their origional design entirely, including the box.
Personally, I think they've already got a valid (as per SCO) business model in suing people and providing On-Demand Console (via JPEGs on news sites).
Case in point: Sega and Nintendo.
Here we had two of the largest video game manufacturers on the planet, who were literally spanked by Sony who spent gobs of cash to make their Playstations a success. PS2 hardware is inferior to that of the Gamecube and Xbox, although it has consistently outsold their competition quarter after quarter.
If Phantom hopes to be successful, they will need to spend millions to get the word out. Even 'giving' the machine away may not stem the tide of the traditional consoles with multi million dollar marketing efforts.
Lastly, I'm worried about their software distribution method. Most people don't have broadband connections, and those that do don't have a home network. If there is no built support for 802.11 wireless many will balk at the thought of having to wire their home just to play games.
www.lonseidman.com
Either way, it's risky to try and get people to pay for this kind of thing. I hope they get a good list of games!
Note: I didn't see a game controller, just a keyboard and mouse.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Bunny Huang. Seriously, it they are really ready to showcase a nearly finished product, hiring a security specialist at this point in the game to secure your product for your vedors is just silly, its much to late *unless* that security specialist is a high profile figure like Andrew "Bunny" Huang!
I still doubt that the Phantom will ever come to light.
Let's look at this carefully. Has a consumer product yet emerged which did not work without a service charge, yet was not hacked?
The article mentions that the company is most worried of spoofing identities. Well, they'd better be. If they want the console and service to succeed they must provide one click shopping for games an apps, with either try before you buy, or some sort of 'dissatisfied' cancel in a few hours after purchase return.
This means that once someone has another person's id/password/encrypted key or whatever, then they can purchase games in another's name while having charges applied to the other person.
I believe that within 3 months of wide availability this will be hacked so you can modify the machine without the service knowing, possibly spoofing IDs. Within a year someone will have the service connected to and running on a regular PC.
And, of course, they'll find out that it runs Linux since MS isn't going to license windows to an xbox competitor at low rates. (ie, they'll use windows, but it'll be so expensive that they'll fail financially)
-Adam
Hiring Huang as a security advisor means that this "free" computer will be harder to hack into a general purpose machine than an Xbox, that's all. I give it six months-- that is, running under the sickeningly optimistic assumption that the Phantom even gets made.
Can we get some confirmation that Huang was actually hired? Specifically from Huang himself? Infinium has a habit of lying about who they're associated with, you know.
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
Should we care whether it's hype (lies) or not? They've proven themselves to be bullying, evasive (read "lying") jerks.
We won't be buying their stuff, unless it's to pull apart the machines, anyhow and we won't even do that, unless they sell them below cost.
We don't trust them. We don't like them.
Weren't they clever? They've sowed salt in their on fields.
going to infinium press image area you can find the full size images- which are basically uncropped versions that you see from one of the post links.
looking at the mouse shot (and that's an interesting design- the upper case is one piece, and the buttons flex it when pressed) it's definitely photoshopped. somebody else can do all the gamma-type proof, but all it takes is to look at the glow around the cord.
so they might be actual devices- but they probably don't look that purty in the real world, i betcha.
regardless, we'll see in a couple of days.
stored on computers from birth to the grave
The service looks to be geared towards a wider demographic rather than the hard core gamer
Naturally, Infinium has been hyping their pursuit of the easycore (anti-hardcore) because that's supposedly where the money is, or at least according to possible investors. So, just how easycore is the Phantom in comparison to other consoles?
* Requires broadband. Hmm, well, broadband is certainly more proliferated than ever, but in regards to gaming it's still considered an element of the hardcore. I think it's safe to say that Xbox Live is doing well for an online service, but according to most publishers online gameplay is still cutting edge, and therefore hardcore. So, broadband alienates a lot of users. What's more: how many easycore people have a cat5 hookup in their living room? Is the Phantom going to support wireless? Do you see how more involved this is becoming?
* Keyboard and mouse control. I think it's fairly safe to say that the easycore far prefer a controller to a mouse and keyboard. And yet the latest renderings have no controller at all. If a user of the phantom is willing to use a mouse and keyboard to play FPS games, why not play it on their PC? Again, this is not catering to the easycore, the mouse and keyboard is definitively hardcore.
* Price. $30 a month? So, the easycore are already paying $30-50 for broadband. Probably $30-90 for cable/satellite, which I mention because it's an entertainment expense. So why would any easycore person pay $30 just to own the phantom and play freeware games? The Phantom subscription fee does not include the games, which themselves will be $40-50. Xbox Live is what, $60 for 12 months? $30 a month is a hardcore price, perhaps even more so because you really don't get anything for it. Even just paying the $200 means you get a machine that people have not coded specifically for. In other words, a game coded specifically for the Xbox, if done well, looks better than a game coded for a PC of the Phantom's specs for obvious reasons. So, why the Phantom again?
I could go on, but I have better things to do than talk about the Phantom. Feel free to add.
The linguistics used by Infinium that seem to cuddle up to the casual gamer are a farce. There's no centralized design here to that end. Gamecubes are for the casual gamer more than any other console, and there is nothing in here that is Apple or Nintendo-esque. The Phantom is just that, a constantly morphing mismatch of ideas piecemealed together from different people and different gaming idealogies, if you can even call them gaming idealogies. Practically, the Phantom is, judging by their choice of words and marketing, little more than an attempt to raise investor monies. It is not a gaming machine but a perceived cash cow for Infinium.
There's always more to the story, and especially in this case. Lawsuits, criminal backgrounds, past failed ventures... it goes on and on. Whereisphantom.com and HardOCP have been leading the investigations into Infinium Labs. If you want to get more than press release information, then you should check out these sites.
These guys might sue.
Games, and will the be games that people want to play?
Sure the Xbox is faster than the PS2 but i would take a PS2 anyday since it has better games.
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
As somebody above said, this just looks like a crippled computer.
Is there anything here to be interested in? I'm certainly not excited about playing games only through a subscription service. I want a physical copy of something I own. I want to be able to play my games years after Infinium goes out of business. The only advantage to streaming games over the internet that I can think of is that it saves money on inventory and packaging, and that really isn't an advantage to the consumer unless game prices are lower. Yeah, that'll be the day... CDs were supposed to be cheaper, too. I'm certainly not excited about the games lined up, since I couldn't find any mention anywhere of exactly what titles the damn thing will play. Since Infinium has no first party development, the vast majority of games on the Phantom will already be somewhere else.
So, given those disadvantages, why would anyone want to own this thing? To have a cheap PC? The X-Box already does that better.
Hoax or no hoax, I didn't think it was possible to come up with a worse business plan than Infinium originally had.
... only because the company still exists. One wonders why they don't just hire Baghdad Bob to do their PR.
I am dumbfounded by how wrong I'm proven by this new release.
I'm hesitant to state that now it couldn't possibly sound any more ridiculous
Or maybe they did.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
If you're just hyping a non-existent product, why limit yourself to such boring specs? If you've already given up your link to reality by marketing something that doesn't and won't exist, why not at least make your fantasy exciting?
Geforce FX 5700 Ultra? Why not "32GB 12-Way Tungstamech Neurogrouts bring you entertainment straight out of the Matrix"? Athlon XP? Why not "Vast arrays of processors shifting in and out of different dimensions deliver impossible computing power while tearing at the fabric of space-time"? Online game rentals? Why not "Direct stimulation of your brain's pleasure centers and direct fine-grained control of all matter in the universe"?
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
It would be nice if, in addition to having mods rating stories, allowing all registered users to vote for the 'best post of the story.' You would definitly get the award for this thread.
At 29.95/month, whether to buy the Phantom will be rationalized as follows for most families:
Broadband internet, cell phone, digital cable/satellite TV, Tivo, other on-line games (XBox Live, misc. PC games, etc.), OnStar, telephone extras (e.g., Caller ID), brand-name groceries, new TV/computer/stereo, new furniture, new lawnmower, etc.
Okay, for this year, pick three or four.
Simply, most families cannot afford to both get new living-room furniture, for example, and get a good cell phone plan and subscribe to the Phantom service all at the same time and stay financially stable with at least some savings. Think about it: $29.95/mo. is $360/year on top of initial costs. I know I spend less than $150/year on PS2 games cause I'm about as cheap as people get; IMO, Phantom is competing with other luxuries like digital cable or broadband internet (yes, middle America, these things are luxuries).
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
That notice is required by law. It helps protect the company in the event that their stock goes down. I stops the class action mills from sueing for next to no reason.
It will still need early exclusive content in order to gain the required critical mass to make developers notice it enough to provide dedicated content in the future.
I can't see any reason to sign up for this over buying a PC, it's the same price and much less flexible. By the time the subscription period is up it will be out of date, and the next gen console hardware will be here, spanking it into the middle of next week.
I can't help but think that any parent with half a brain will see it for what it is, a vastly overpriced games console. At least a PC can be used for practical purposes, and is probably cheaper too.
Have you noticed the phantom has so many announcements it looks like they actually WIN money each time they get their name mentioned? Well curious as it sounds THEY DO make money. Phantom is a public investor company so each time you hear anything about the phantom more investors are attracted and flock to Infinium Labs. Investors dont want to hear about games or exactly why the product is any good (hype). They just want to know when it will be out (aproximately) and how much money will they make. And if you check the announcements every single one mentions those two aspects and not a single one detail that would entice a gamer to buy it (it will have great graphics, X game is coming for it) . Makes you wonder doesn't it?
Go ahead MOD my day!
More opinions here
Let's drop the DNF jokes. It's old, it's tired, and I knew before clicking on the discussion link that at least 3 people would make the joke. Hot Grits man, it's time for it to die.
People people people. This is a good thing. Encourage it.
Look at those components. Look at that price. Fairly competitive at retail, especially if you can run non-xp on it. Now look 6 months down the line when the nearest suburban family bought it and the kids got bored with it. Where's the system now? $10 at their garage sale.
Do the math.
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
As far as I can tell the phantom looks like a gaming PC for people who don't have a PC, or choose not to play games on their PC but still want to play PC games (the subscription service doesn't list any games that would be exclusive enough to make value of the cost).
Is it really likely that people without PCs would have broadband? and if they have a PC and broadband but do not use it for gaming would they spend the money for a router? I didn't see anything about it but does phantom support wireless networking? or do they expect everyone to lay networking cables to their tvs? (I know most of slashdot have done that already, but most of you won't buy a phantom).
compare the size of today's multi-CD games, and how long it takes to download even a cd-romful of ~700mb...
at least a couple of hours at optimal connection speeds on excellent high-bandwidth servers.
now add to the fact that a lot of gamers dislike even the loading times of games that are already installed on their machines...
I dont know about you guys, but me, I'll believe they can pull it off after they do it, when I can see it.
Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers?
Do they really think that casual gamers want to throw down $30 a month for some obscure console they've never heard of? I would bet that a casual gamer is much more likely to buy something that they know other people have and that they've heard a lot about, like a Playstation 2.
If the Phantom were to be successful, I would think they would need the hardcore gamers to be their early-adopters. Without any hardcore gamers acting as apologists to their more casual friends, I can't see how a casual gamer would ever even consider the Phantom.
40 gig harddrive? Are they blind to the massive new technological advancements called DVDs? 4 gigs each at max, considering the average game today is 1 to 2 gigs, that would mean your system can hold a grand total of 20-40 games, total. I recently downloaded a game (much, much newer) that was nearly 5 gigs. I can't wait to use my brand new 10 game system. Oh wait, they'll probably have a harddrive addition system where I can add a new harddrive to it or an upgraded one for only 12 easy payments of $40 a month extra.
"Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers?"
Well, give them a few months. Once they read the above comments pointing out the numerous flaws in their current business plan, perhaps they'll rewrite it to target the hardcore gamers instead.
Personally, I think they'd be better off recruiting a bunch of underpants gnomes.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
I have some concerns about the price of this service. Infinium claims that their audience ranges "from the avid gamer to the casual player" but what casual player is going to spend $29.95 per month on gaming?
I consider myself to be a bit more than a casual player (but not much more) and I don't currently spend $29.95 per month on gaming. That's $359.40 per year! I spend about $30 - $40 every two months on games and I spend an average of $100 per year on hardware upgrades to keep new games running. That's still cheaper ($280 - $340 per year, usually right at $300) and I'm getting harware upgrades on my PC that tend to boost the system's overall performance.
The hardware that the Phantom is spec'd at looks good now but it isn't out yet and it has to last two years after it comes out for it to be "free." The math just doesn't add up for me.
You are spot on everywhere except perhaps the controller. They probably realize they are not going to be able to profitably produce both system and controller, so hopefully they will simply make it work with HID-class game controller devices. This way, any standard HID-class controller and/or input device will work in all games, as well as other devices for which you have a driver - for example, they could include support for Xbox gamepads. Meanwhile other console system controllers are supported via USB "adapter" dongles which present them to the system as HID-class units, so you can use your dual shock 2, your dreamcast controller, even your damned saturn 3d pad or twin stick to play games on such a system. It's possible that Microsoft will do this on the successor to Xbox, since they have announced that the controllers for the new system will be PC-compatible. (Though going one way does not imply but only suggest that it might go the other.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Perhaps a more interesting question is why aren't they targeting hardcore gamers
Great question. I think it has to do with target audience. Infinium has exhibited far more interest in investors than they have the gaming community (c.f. HardOCP). And investors like the idea of the casual gamer more, at least now, because it's a broader market. Mainstream sounds much nicer than the nerdy fat guy who buys a game a week and has no life. That's not how it is, but that's often how it's perceived (c.f. Most gaming advertisements, which are not designed by the devs but by outside companies).
Of course, gaming is one of the few industries that has yet to realize the potential of the repeat gamer, the "hardcore." Tobacco companies have no problem with this, but neither does the DVD/cinema industry, the list goes on. The ones in control of gaming, however, seem to disdain the people that give them the most money.
Ok well I know "why", it'll just be effortlessly easy to have all the games you want I guess, instead of the stupidly easy it will probably be with the console...wait...what's easier, effortless or stupidly easy?
Er anyway, I don't quite understand how they can legally distribute all the new games they want to the subscribers? Especially a game that requires a unique cd-key to play on some servers.
And even if they can, how did they convince the publishers that it can't be hacked in 10.3 seconds?
Wow. News to me...I have no involvement with the security that will be in the Phantom console that's showing at E3. *sigh* the press has a wonderful way of spreading misinformation at times.
Don't forget to subtract:
1 gig for swap
3 gigs for specialized M$ Windows OS flab
1 gig for Phantom's own software blotation
1 gig for ad storage (why not?)
1 gig for previews, demos, game catalogs, promo crap
1 gig for user storage, save games etc.
---
32 gigs left over. 25% lost to administrativa.
That leaves space for about 16 games at 2 gigs each.
Somehow the logistics of streaming games over broadband doesn't add up. It's going to take a sizeable delay to get the core pieces of a game engine, core graphics etc. down, then more for each level. Some of the Thief Fan Missions I've downloaded are 8 megs each. I can't see titles being instantly playable, but maybe start the download and go have dinner...
Thank you for clearing that up.
To quote: "You know, somehow, 'I told you so' just doesn't cut it." ^_^
"Why Subscribe?" Good question...
a Beowulf! Seriously, if these things hit market before I get enough money to upgrade my computer.. I'm gonna buy one of these to salvage for upgrade parts.
Am I the only one here who's thinking that NanoGator has invested in this thing?
"We shall grapple with the ineffable, and see if we may not eff it after all." - Douglas Adams
Just as the rest of the dinosaurs who think anything and everything has to be bolted down with DRM, this "cosole" is made for THEM, not for the gamers, and they are terrified of any online-delivery that has people paying for bits instead of media. The only way they'd touch it is if they could somehow destroy the user's computer, or its ability to run the games, if they did at any point anything that showed more initiative than sitting down and mushing buttons.
Enter the Phantom.
This is going to flop so badly it's going to dwarf the N-Gage. It'll be hella entertaining, in a "road side multiple accident" kind of morbid way.
---- Take the Space Quiz!
A 2500 and 5700 Ultra kick the shit out of the Xbox, even with the shitty resolution that the Xbox provides. FSAA, FSAF, 1280x1024, DX9, and not to mention raw power that outpaces the Xbox by miles.
Mod parent down for this -- anyone spending two seconds on an Xbox can see it can't keep up for shit with today's gaming experiences on PCs.
Geez. Judging by your aggressive response and excessive use of acronyms, curse words, and big numbers, you'd think that I'd insulted your genitalia. I had no such intention. Instead, I think it's important to note that graphics don't matter to many people outside of the PC hardcore community.
Take for example, my wife. Definitely an easycore. She dabbles with Mario Kart, played Animal Crossing, and went on a Sims spurt for two months. She saw me playing the demo of Splinter Cell Pandora's Tommorow on my PC (2.4xp, gf4 4200). I went out and bought the game for Xbox (multiplayer) and she commented that it looked better on the Xbox. She's wrong, at least graphically, and so I'm inclined to agree with you on that level. However, I can't deny that it does play smoother on the Xbox. When old Sam Fischer's little spy body nearly gets blown off the train in the demo level as multiple light sources pass by my 2400 XP chugs. This didn't happen on the Xbox, because the designers knew that it wouldn't. They had the Xbox in their office that I have here. I can't say that for my PC, which is one of thousands of unique combinations of hardware. This is certainly more true when the Xbox debuted. You're right, of course, the Xbox is starting to show it's age. But only barely, and only to those that are spending $300-600 every six months to upgrade their PCs.
Does Far Cry look better than anything on the Xbox? Well sure, of course it does. It's cutting edge technology. Will Doom III on the PC be shinier, more reflective, have more shadows, more polygons, more lens flares, and a higher FPS than the Xbox version? Of course. But so as to avoid getting into a graphical pissing contest with you, which it seems you want, I'll focus back on the Phantom. If a game even looks a little worse on the Xbox (and that's all we're really talking about here to people not like you who include the 3dmark rundown in their startup group) why should they pay $200 for a machine that does nothing, or $30 a month for a machine that looks barely better than a $150 or less console? Your "kicking the shit" amounts to a barely noticable difference in graphical quality to the very audience Infinium is going after. This avid fascination with numbers and acronyms and FPS that you so adroitly exhibit is indiginous only to the hardcore, and those are the exact people Infinium is completely shunning (HardOCP, for a prime example). Perhaps quite mistakingly, as you've aptly demonstrated. Infinium may do well to go after the hardcore group, but it would mean alienating a slew of potential investors who probably do not care for our kind.
As a sidelight from the main discussion of the Phantom, I hope you realize UL that I'm not trying to make fun of you, or make light of performance based gaming. I think it's great, and if I had the money to do it I'd be right in there chugging out resolution statistics and downloading the beta of DirectX. However, I suggest that you be more open to the idea that merely because something runs at 320x240 on a TV screen doesn't mean it looks worse. Indeed, I have yet to see a PC game rival the graphical tour de forces that are ICO, or REZ, or Wind Waker, or Panzeer Dragoon Orta. Even Far Cry doesn't look much better than Dead or Alive 3's graphics. We can justify that with smaller environments and a lower resolution, but that doesn't really matter to the "mainstream."
And as far "keep up shit with today's gaming experiences on the PCs," I'll concede graphics to you, although I've proved it doesn't matter with regards to the Phantom. Experience though? That is an altogether different and much more subjective animal, and a statement you'd have a hard time defending to anyone who plays games on both console and PC. I might have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but no longer.
That would be Infinium Labs spreading the misinformation. Kevin "Special K" Bachus was the one who said you were hired by them.
I noticed Slashdot is part of the press helping spread this too. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/10/143824 0