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Stopping Overseas Fax Spam?

iotashan asks: "Likely for most businesses, unsolicited faxes have become quite a problem. They needlessly use up toner and paper, and are usually just scams anyway. Specifically, we are receiving faxes from a company called Flamingo Travel. Now, they appear to bug business across the US, and some innocent parties are falling victim. I have used their automated system for having my fax number removed, to no avail. Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?"

"The latest fax listed a number to call to take advantage of the offer (800-328-9795), so I called it and asked to be removed. The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK. Do I have nowhere to turn except an expensive lawyer, armed with no information about the company?"

116 of 439 comments (clear)

  1. Spam him back by CptChipJew · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?

    That's really not such a bad idea. Being that they're in an other country and illegally spamming, you can assume they aren't going to attempt to prosecute somebody that they themselves have illegally wronged.

    Get a free VoIP service like Free World Dialup or something that lets you make 800 calls over the Internet. With most of them the caller ID shows up as random numbers across the US that they use to dial out. Then fax them tons and tons and tons of junk (read: goatse's) faxes through that.

    Or you could just automate your VoIP program to call them every 30 seconds. Rack up the bills and annoy the hell out of them. Didn't Scott Richer get really pissed off when everybody submitted his email address to zillions of email lists?

    --
    Vonal Declosion
    1. Re:Spam him back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or you could fax back a neverending loop of black paper. Always a fave around my office.

    2. Re:Spam him back by ottothecow · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I called the first time...she said reservations and I said that I would like to reserve some travel. She said something like she didnt know what I needed and hung up. I called again and said "I'm sorry, we seem to have been disconnected" to which she replied "I hung up on you because you dont know what you need"

      does anyone know what these people want to sell me so that I can lead them on a bit more?

      --
      Bottles.
    3. Re:Spam him back by ttldkns · · Score: 4, Informative

      sorry to spoil it for you all but cant it wait until morning? its like 11:26PM over here. there will be no one in that office!!

      D'OH!

      --
      How many computers are too many?
    4. Re:Spam him back by MukiMuki · · Score: 5, Informative

      A couple of karma-whoring things...

      Number 1 : Free World Dialup

      Number 2 : Why are you still using a fax machine? Get a cheap computer up on some fax software and you can auto-filter your faxes. Not to mention the savings you'll get from not using any toner. Then just lazer print anything worth keeping.

    5. Re:Spam him back by CptChipJew · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I just called and it hung up as soon as it answered.

      Congratulations, in 5 minutes they're already Slashdotted beyong annoyance!

      --
      Vonal Declosion
    6. Re:Spam him back by Karamchand · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be aware of the fact that it will stay a one time annnoyance if you call it once today. Therefor write down the number on a post it note, stick it to your monitor and call them now and them every day!

    7. Re:Spam him back by kemapa · · Score: 2, Informative
      A quick search with google reveals http://www.ftravel.ru/, a Russian site, but it is no longer up.

      There is a Google cache here, however.

      Maybe this is the over-seas company doing the faxing? I don't know, I can't read Russian , so I can't verify if the company discussed in the article is the same as this one.

      Oh and BTW the number for the company that is doing the faxing is 1-800-328-9795 for those who don't want to RTFA.

    8. Re:Spam him back by CaptBubba · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Actually this does work, and it works very very well.

      The trick is in the timing. call on Friday after buisness hours, and let it fax. Once the paper you are faxing starts to come through your machine, loop it back around and tape it together to form a nice continuous loop. I've heard of this fax continuing all weekend until somebody comes in Monday to shut it off.

    9. Re:Spam him back by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 4, Informative

      Did a search to see if I could find any additional information and found that Flamingo Travel has incorrectly had calls going to their number. They have their front page modified to point people to the correct number as other posters have listed. They also have this link to fcc.gov for filing complaints against unwanted faxes.

      Sounds like some people have hit the wrong target.

    10. Re:Spam him back by yintercept · · Score: 4, Informative

      More than likely, the spammer will just end up sticking the phone company with the bill. If this effort generates enough traffic to actually make an impact on the spammer's finances, the spammer will probably be able to point to a malicious /. thread and get the phone company to absorb the charges.

      The other innocent group getting hit right now are people who have phone number similar to the spammer. As fat fingered /.ers dial away, about 1 out of every fifty calls is dinging an innocent bystander. (assuming that there are innocent people who have 800 numbers.)

    11. Re:Spam him back by Dimensio · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Get an air horn, call, and blast it into the receiver.

    12. Re:Spam him back by number11 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?

      Do remember that the recipient of an 800 call gets your phone number reported to them.

      Calling from a pay phone will prevent you from receiving phone-spam (or legal) retribution.

      In the US, calling from a pay phone has an additional benefit: the recipient is charged ~$0.35 per call to compensate the owner of the pay phone for the money you're not putting in. So if you don't get the information you need the first time, keep calling back until you do.

    13. Re:Spam him back by MrChuck · · Score: 3, Interesting
      1. stop using a fax machine.
        In 1993, we used Hylafax. We sent things out THROUGH it (and a row of modems) and we received faxes through it. It never needs to hit paper.
        We had a machine to send stuff OUT of on occasion (like a filled out form), but didn't take IN on that line.
        In days of yore, we just showed the first page and someone could route it by that. Privacy issues were pretty moot as it was replacing a pile of paper that the administrators (secretaries) piled through).
        Junk Fax? Delete.
        Need to have it on paper? Fine, print it. About 20% ever needed to become paper.

      A Friend ordered some new modem (28.8kb). Needed it the next day. Coached them on how to send it international (he was in canada for 2 weeks on a job site with no access). "Sir, we do this all the time." And yet they screwed it up. Nothing in the promised AM. Noon. PM. The next morning, he's written a long 4 page screed. In large print, 3 thrice a page, he has in 100 pt font, "Call me: My number is..."
      Prints it on a trusty dotmatrix as one sheet.
      He "dials around" the tech supports local(ish) direct number until he gets a fax squeal.
      Feeds the fax. Tapes the ends together.

      After 90 minutes, the phone rings. "Are you .....?"

      Yes, did you get my fax? ... really? wow, my machine must be screwed up. But not like your shipping dept is. Where's my damn modem you charged me for a swore up and down would be here yesterday?

      Faxing them back won't make a difference. It will cost you. Perhaps a smart fax modem program with caller ID set with an access list (ala sendmail: Block THESE countries).

    14. Re:Spam him back by jfdawes · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Uh, ... I can't help myself....

      My new business model:

      1) Buy a bunch of pay phones and install them in a big room.
      2) Hook them up to computers/modems/whatever
      3) Call 1-800 numbers found on spam faxes/junk email all day and night.
      4) Profit!!!

      At $0.35 a call, how long does it take to pay for the pay phone?

    15. Re:Spam him back by chrisfnet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why doesn't everyone sign up for an account here for the free month. Send a month's worth of faxes to the company... everyone.

      After a few hundred thousand faxes, I bet the company would reconsider it's marketing practices.

    16. Re:Spam him back by BasharTeg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hang on a second,

      You think you're getting back at the spammer, but here's what's really happening. I work for a mid-sized toll free 800 services provider. These bastards sign up for our services, pay the first month's cost on the system, advertise illegally, and then never pay the cost of the usage. They collect whatever amount of successful business they get, many times by spamming starting Friday night so we don't get the complaints and shut them down until Monday morning, and then when we cancel their system for abuse, they don't pay the usage bill, which is often a flood of callers screaming at them in voicemail. Then a few of the callers look up who manages the 800 number of the spammer, figure out it is our company, and they call us and scream and/or report us to the FCC or FTC for spamming, when we're not the ones doing it. This is a very very common problem for 800 toll free services providers. There is little we can do to stop it. We rapidly answer supoenas from Attornies General of states, and we report these spammers to the FCC, including every bit of information we can gather regarding the spammer. Sometimes the systems are purchased with fake credit cards. We try to ban their names and aliases, and we have a person who visually screens the orders for known spammers and fake looking orders. With all of our efforts, and by complying with all telecom regulations and reporting fraud and phone/fax abuse to the FCC, we still suffer from these morons every month. There's nothing to stop some fax spammer from getting a new name, new credit card, buying an 800 number, fax spamming up a storm, and putting that 800 number they bought from us as the call-back number.

      Now, we do NOT allow people to abuse our outbound fax system for the spamming, this is typically done either with their own equipment or through some spam-friendly service. Our fax system doesn't allow faxing to large enough groups of numbers for anything but standard office groupware type faxing. All of our outbound services are heavily monitored for abuse.

      My point is this: You think by flooding the 800 number with phone calls and wasting their minutes that you are punishing the spammer. That's assuming the bastard is going to pay his bill, when quite frequently, he is not. We end up paying his bill while we do everything possible to rapidly kill spam accounts and report them to authorities. If you really want to help resolve this problem, the proper response is to report them to the FCC. If the FCC receives enough complaints, they act and people get taken down (we've seen it). You can easily fill out the abuse report form located here on the FCC's site: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm

      Please, understand that unlike email spammers who have positive relationships with their providers, phone providers are actually under the gun with the FCC and rarely do they ever willingly partake in phone/fax spamming which is clearly illegal under FCC and FTC regulations. Since they aren't working with us in a positive relationship, they know they can screw us and not pay their bill.

    17. Re:Spam him back by Jeffrey+Baker · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Sounds to me like this vigilante response is working perfectly. By putting pressure on you, the 800 service provider, the rabid posse is keeping the problem in check. You are highly motivated to remove the spammer and to not sign up their accounts. That seems to be the desired response.

      I don't know anything about your business or the size thereof, but there are lots of ways to prevent getting scum for customers. You could only sign up customers with D&B numbers, require an audited credit statement, and so forth. Sounds to me like you want to not screen customers very carefully and also not endure the problems associated with bad customers.

  2. Consistency here will be key by Humba · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think we should have a consistent answer to the guy who answers the 800 number. Something like "Sorry, wrong number. Bork bork." ?

    --H

  3. /.ing by Bobdoer · · Score: 2, Funny

    Slashdoting a fax line...I like it! And it's for a moderately good cause. How can you beat that?

  4. Solution by bobthemuse · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Call them under a pseudonym, tell them you want to place an order for group travel for your company, have them fax a quote to you. Chances are they will use their real fax machine (programmed with their real phone number) instead of the auto-dial bank. If you can scam them under the pretenses of faxing an order, that's even better. Have a local (or use cheap voip service) to spam them back a copy of their advertisement, marked up liberally with a black marker.

    While it probably won't get you off the list, it will make you feel better.

  5. Reminds me of an old trick by youngerpants · · Score: 5, Funny

    tape 2 a4 sheets of black paper together lengthways, feed into fax machine and send. When the fax starts to feed through, tape together into a loop and leave it.

    That'll use up their toner :)

    1. Re:Reminds me of an old trick by andyrut · · Score: 3, Funny

      Or even better - you could fax them a page with equal quantities of red, blue, green, and black so it sucks up their color fax toner too!

    2. Re:Reminds me of an old trick by apankrat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That'll use up their toner :)

      Yeah, that's assuming there is a toner to use up.

      Ie it's not the pentium box with a fax-modem and huge harddrive on other end as every normal computer telephony company would have.

      --
      3.243F6A8885A308D313
  6. Well... by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you sure the return number is even theirs?

    1. Re:Well... by nacturation · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the summaries always contain accurate information, right? It's not like the editors would have called up the number to verify the information (they don't even check links!) so, while this may be legitimate, it *is* possible to Joe-job someone using Slashdot.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  7. Aren't fax machines old school? by HBI · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems to me that you could just rig up a computer to accept faxes, using ANI or caller id to refuse to accept anything you didn't get valid info for.

    Set the jobs to auto-print and you are set. Use the old fax machine for outbounds only, rig it to not answer.

    Woops, sorry, this solution requires more effort than plugging the machine into the wall. How could I have even brought it up.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  8. Sure by dtfinch · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you're reading this, dial 1-800-328-9795.

    One call won't hurt. Keep them on the line as long as possible. Ask what they're wearing and when they stopped beating their kids and stuff.

    1. Re:Sure by chimpo13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I called. It rang once and went silent. Tried calling again, some guy answered. I asked if they'd gotten tons of calls, and he said nope. But he's "looking forward to it because that's what we do". Not sure what he meant, I suppose I should try calling again.

    2. Re:Sure by Reby · · Score: 2

      I got thru and asked if they were busy, he replied 'No just some a$$es like you' and then he hung up...lol apparently he's having a bad phone day...BWHAHAHA!

    3. Re:Sure by nacturation · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're reading this, dial 1-800-328-9795. One call won't hurt.

      Or will it? Now that you've called them, they have your phone number -- ANI displays your number even if you block caller id from being sent. Because you called them, likely from your home number, doesn't that consitute a business relationship with them? Perhaps now you'll start getting tons of phone calls to your number, and they won't be unsolicited.

      The best thing is to write down the number and take it with you. If you happen to pass by a phone booth (or hotel courtesy phone, or...) on the way to lunch or something, pick it up and make the call.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    4. Re:Sure by Steve+B · · Score: 2, Funny
      Now that you've called them, they have your phone number

      A pay phone fifteen miles away from my house gives them my home phone number?

      --
      /. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
    5. Re:Sure by lost_n_confused · · Score: 2, Informative

      A far better reason to use a pay phone is they are charged an access fee of $.40 or more for each call. So use pay phones and call them 10,000 times kinda ruins their VOIP savings.

      --
      -- To mess up an OS X box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it.--
  9. I just called the 800# by JesseL · · Score: 4, Funny

    I asked how many people have let them know how despicable fax smapping is now. The woman answering said nonchalantly "Oh, not very many". I let her know they'd be getting a lot more very soon now.

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
    1. Re:I just called the 800# by The+Pi-Guy · · Score: 4, Funny

      *on*
      Beep boop boop beep beep boop boop beep boop boop beep.
      *ring*
      *ring*
      Unintelligable greeting.

      "Hello, has anybody told you how despicable fax spamming is?" ... ...
      *click*

  10. International Law anyone by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The woman took down my number, but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK.

    Now, I don't know about some third world countries, but isn't there a treaty that says something like "If a law is illegal in our country, your 'citizen' can't do it in our country.

    1. Re:International Law anyone by JesseL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That should be news for all the people that come from places where gambling is illegal, vacationing in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, etc.

      --
      "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  11. How much does this cost THEM? by Em+Ellel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ok, one thing I am missing, how much does it cost them? I mean f they are sending the faxes from UK, it will be too costly, but if they are sending it via some sort of internet relay, go after the relay - they are in the US and must obey laws. What am i missing here?

    -Em

    --
    RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    1. Re:How much does this cost THEM? by ballylama · · Score: 3, Informative

      They are based in Florida.

      do a Google search on the 800 number.

      Found them in the BBB under the following:

      FLAMINGO TRAVEL
      2137 N Courtenay Pkwy Ste 23
      Merritt Island, FL 32953

      Local Phone Number: (321) 454-9070
      Fax Number: (321) 452-0606
      TOB Classification: Travel Agencies & Bureaus

    2. Re:How much does this cost THEM? by seizer · · Score: 2, Informative

      What am i missing here?

      Never mind VoIP; you're missing the incredibly cheap cost of international POTS calls originating from the UK. I can get 1 penny per minute (~1.6c/min) as an end-user to make calls to the USA (and Australia, France, etc). If I was a bulk business user, I'm sure I could get an even better price.

    3. Re:How much does this cost THEM? by Alizarin+Erythrosin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Those bastards were the same ones who were sending email spam forging it to look like it was from me. I found out after I got some bounce messages from non-working AOL addresses. I submitted them to their ISP. At the time I didn't have any company address information to sue them for impersonation, just where the spam was advertising. Haven't had any bounced in a while.

      BTW they were running IIS (hah).

      --
      There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
    4. Re:How much does this cost THEM? by Mattwolf7 · · Score: 5, Informative
      NO!

      http://www.flamingo-travel.com/Home/News.asp?ID=1

      -----------------
      We have been recieving phone calls from people angry that we are sending them fax specials like $99 to Disney and Kids Free. Please know that they are NOT coming from Flamingo Travel Group in Pennsylvania. They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel. Their phone number is 1-800-328-9795 and they sell time shares.

  12. Re:Too many fishy facts... by FesterDaFelcher · · Score: 5, Informative

    Scratch that, after searching a little more the number is right, dial away!!!!

    --
    My user number is prime. Is yours?
  13. Stupid Question.. by \\ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why don't fax machines have whitelisting or blacklisting capabilities? Or do they?

  14. Somebody still uses fax machines? by Mjlner · · Score: 3, Funny

    Weren't they replaced by steam-powered typewriters or something?

    --
    Lemon curry???
  15. Something not to try by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I would not suggest having someone over in GB find their telephone circuit (ISDN-PRI, T1/E1, or whatever). Disconnect that line from the local telco provider (no need in creating collateral damage), and proceed to "test" the line.

    For proper testing equipment, keep in mind that a normal telephone circuit runs about 40 VDC with 200 VDC spikes when ringing (your mileage may vary). Data lines tend to be much more voltage limited. As such, application of high voltage, say from a Megger or a VanDeGraff Generator, may cause "issues" with the CPE.

    I would not recommend you do this, but then again, you are certainly welcome to use your imagination. Yes, the 220 VAC mains common in GB should create "interesting" results...

  16. Black Construction Paper by jubitzu · · Score: 2, Funny

    I keep a piece of black construction paper next to my fax machine. Granted this does not work for all my spam messages, but anyone who is bold enough to send unsolicited order forms that are to be faxed to their fax machine will be running out of toner daily. Economic solutions to SPAM do exist!

    1. Re:Black Construction Paper by p4ul13 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      They don't necessarily have to have toner in their fax machine in order to send these faxes to you. For that matter, they could (most likely) be sending the faxes through software.

      The black paper trick is nice and all, but probably will just end up making your phone line busy.

      --
      Paul Lenhart writes words!
    2. Re:Black Construction Paper by MinusBlindfold · · Score: 2, Insightful

      a good number of companies are using electronic storage systems for their incoming faxes these days. So instead of using up their paper and toner you're really just eating up space on a hard drive.

  17. yes consistency by nmbr6tech · · Score: 4, Funny

    When we call we tell them we are minuto sombato from nigeria. We have a million dollars we need to transfer into an account and we need there help.

  18. Yes by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Funny

    We kept getting junk faxes from some company with a 1-800 reply number. Well created a blank 250 page word doc that was nothing but a black background. It took half an hour to send the whole thing and I let it run for a few hours. Never heard back from them again.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Even better, make the first few pages a realistic request for quotes, and then follow it with 250 pages of black. Even if they're using a fax modem, if they see it looks real, they might click print, without realizing it has a ton of black following it.

      Probably only work once though.

    2. Re:Yes by darkfire5252 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please tell me you did it with a fax modem, and didn't print those sheets out. Using 2-3 and taping them into a loop works so much better.

  19. Re:Too many fishy facts... by JesseL · · Score: 3, Informative

    Try reading your link again. It is the same one noted in the story regarding "innocent parties". The page you linked at flamingo-travel.com explains the the number (1-800-328-9795) does belong to the offending company.

    --
    "Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!"
  20. A question of scale. by mikeophile · · Score: 5, Funny
    Is my only weapon having a bunch of friends call this 800 number to make the company's overseas toll-free phone bill unbearable?


    Not a bad weapon if you consider Slashdot a bunch of friends.

    Wonder-slash powers activate!


    Form of a massive 800 number DoSing!


    Shape of a six digit phone bill!

  21. Count me in. by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was a victim. I finally got so pissed off at them coming in at 2-4am to my home phone that doesn't even have a fax machine hooked up that I changed my number... Unfortunately the new number belonged to some guy that is in huge debt with his creditors and they call constently. Also I forgot that I would no longer be on Missouri's no call list so telemarketers were calling quite a bit too. I think no call has kicked in because the calls seem to have dropped. The were almost all automated calls which is interesting because before the MO No Call list most telemarketing was done by live people.

    If you guys want to organize a day where we call all the 800 numbers of spammers and junk faxers count me in. I've got a couple of numbers I've been collecting that I can throw into the pool.

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Count me in. by The+Vulture · · Score: 3, Informative

      It doesn't work that easily.

      The idea is that the Telezapper (and devices like it) send out an SIT tone (the beeps that you get when you call a number and get the recording, "This number is not in service"). The telemarketing machines are supposed to recognize that and assume that the phone number isn't in service anymore (and thus, to avoid calling you again, which wastes time and money, remove you from the list).

      At the telemarketing company I worked for about six years ago (*hangs my head in shame*), even though the computer did the dialing, we'd get to listen once the connection was made, no matter what is was. It was then up to me to determine whether to add that number to the bit bucket (for that list) or not.

      So, depending on the setup the telemarketer has, it's easy enough to listen to the tone, and then wait for the person to answer the phone. Heck, I think that they have it automated by the dialing machines now.

      -- Joe

  22. Glavin! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why it's the AT-5000 Auto-Dialer! My very first patent. Aw, would you listen to the gibberish they've got you saying it's sad and alarming? You were designed to alert schoolchildren about snow days and such. Well, let's get you home to Frinky. Hope your wheels still work.

  23. Fax Broadcasting WORKS, people by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it didn't, people wouldn't do it.

    I know somebody who runs a fax list. He's very religeous about getting you off his lists right away if you want off, but he's more liberal than I would prefer about what constitutes "opt in"...

    It works.

    He's getting business - lots of it. In his own words, he's "on a roll". It's cheaper and more effective to send junk faxes than to post legitimate ads in the trade magazines!

    He's not selling penis pills or anything like that - just an independent broker promoting his services, which services he otherwise competently provides.

    He'll continue this until the money runs out, like anybody else in his position.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    1. Re:Fax Broadcasting WORKS, people by Alsee · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, it "works".

      For $10 you can send a few thousand junk faxes, burn up a over a hundred dollars worth of toner and paper from the thousands of victimes, tie up thousands of fax machines blocking in-coming or out-going faxes for a while, and receive $15.

      Of course those profits will vanish pretty damn fast when a couple of people file TCPA lawsuits in small claims court becuase those faxes are illegal. Not only do you need to show up in court for each suit filed, but each fax results in a minimum $500 fine. Of course each fax is almost guaranteed to actually be a double violation, and the damages are TRIPLE if the fax was not sent by accident (i.e. a genuine innocent wrong-number). So each and every junk fax is generally $3000 in damages if the judge fully enforces the law.

      It doesn't matter HOW profitable junkfaxing is, just a handfull of such cases and you lose your house.

      I suggest you tell your friend to do a quick Google on JunkFax penalties.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  24. I just called by SethJohnson · · Score: 5, Interesting


    The phone was answered by a non-british accented woman. Probably american accent. She said it was not Flamingo Travel but it is a travel agency.

    Here's the deal. This is probably being done by an aggregator. The spammer is probably giving out a specific 1-800 number that forwards to a 'reputable' travel agency. Whatever is booked off this phone number is then given a commission to the spammer. It might even be a flat commission on the number of calls, completely ignoring the sales made. So, essentially, it could be like a banner click-thru deal and by us calling, the spammer is making mega-bling.

    In any case, if you're going to call this number, be sure to alert the person that you are simply calling to complain about the faxes. This will help the travel people understand that the garbage calls they are receiving are the result of unpleasant and intrusive advertising practices.
    1. Re:I just called by Em+Ellel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That would be a heck of a sales ploy, get paid by the call, and post the number on slashdot. :-)

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    2. Re:I just called by gcaseye6677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nothing wrong with this. If the companies that are soliciting the spammer's services are paying lots of money only to have people bitch at them about junk faxes, they will probably demand a refund from the spammer. When they don't get it, they'll stop using the spammer. The end result: spamming is less profitable, and therefore not used as often.

  25. Somethings definitely up with these people by CptChipJew · · Score: 5, Funny

    I called, heard the phone pick up, "Reservations". So I said "I need reservations", and she hung up on me. Then I called back again and they picked up with no response. I said "Hello?", and they hung up.

    So then I called and said "You're gonna die bitch". And then heard a bunch of women laughing.

    --
    Vonal Declosion
  26. Be careful with "revenge attacks" by casual+lemon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The poster mentioned the Fax Preference Service in the UK wouldn't help him track down and stop a UK-based faxer. However, he didn't mention whether the FCC would help a non-US fax recipient track down and stop a US-based faxer. Perhaps someone can find and link to the FCC's policies regarding foreign complaints, but in the meantime, be careful with attacking back with auto-dialers, looping faxes, and the like (not that they don't deserve it...just don't set yourself up for more greif).

  27. Re:Solutions: by dtfinch · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are a few free long-distance fax networks out there. Some or all of the members have a phone line, and faxes are sent online to someone who's computer can dial the number locally.

    As a result you may receive both legitimate and spam faxes from the same number. Most companies will send faxes directly over the phone, but individuals or thrifty small businesses have a fair chance of sending them by either method.

    Since they're spamming, they're probably not paying long distance charges.

  28. Getting ridiculous by Offshored · · Score: 2, Funny

    Even our spam is getting outsourced. Keep American spammers employed, buy your useless crap only from American spammers.

  29. Even better by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Redundant

    Get a fax that read in line by line, with the output near to the input. Get a piece of black paper that is long enough, feed it trhough, and connect the ends. Continous fax that will run out their toner and might even overheat an older unit.

  30. Not that I've done this myself....... by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    (looks around nervously)

    If you have their fax number, especially if it's an 800#...

    Take 4 sheets of black construction paper and tape them together end to end so they will feed through your fax machine. Once the first sheet is through, quickly tape it to the last sheet to create a continuous loop.

    If they use conventional fax, use up their paper and toner. If they store faxes electronically, a continuous loop should eat up some storage ;)

    --


    "Lame" - Galaxar
  31. I think you're right by SethJohnson · · Score: 5, Informative



    I checked on the guy who posted this.. there's really no history of him posting anything on slashdot prior to this--

    iotashan

    Seems like a banner click thru scam, but this time it's with a 1-800 number. Brilliant.

    1. Re:I think you're right by iotashan · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No... I'm real, and I'm not on there. The whole purpose of doing this was so they would be flooded with calls about how faxes suck. Please mention that when you call. Don't buy anything!

  32. Normal people, that's who. by fmaxwell · · Score: 4, Informative

    Who the hell uses a fax machine anymore anyways???

    Normal businesses and people, that's who.

    When an editor wants to send back a marked-up piece of copy, they do it by fax. Any real editor in the world will tell you that you don't edit online. You do it with proofreaders' marks, circles, arrows, writing in between lines, etc.

    If you are, or are dealing with, a lawyer, a real-estate agent, or anyone who works with contracts, you exchange the contracts via fax. (Typing your name in e-mail doesn't count as a signature.)

    The business world still relies on faxes because they work better than e-mail for many purposes.

    Most people don't have sheetfeed scanners, so they can't put a 15 page document in their scanner and just walk away. They have to feed it page by page, so don't even bother with the use-a-scanner-and-e-mail-it line.

    1. Re:Normal people, that's who. by cliveholloway · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you are, or are dealing with, a lawyer, a real-estate agent, or anyone who works with contracts, you exchange the contracts via fax. (Typing your name in e-mail doesn't count as a signature.)

      And just how crazy is that? I kept a scan of my signature on my PC when I ran a web design business. If anything needed changing at the bank, I'd write a letter to the bank and plop the TIF sig in and fax. And my employees could do it too if I was away. Could I email them a GPG/PGP signed email? Nope. Can I do that now? Nope? Can I *still* send them a fax with a pasted in scanned signature? Yep.

      I'll never understand the mentality of UK banks (Lloyds in this particular case) or anyone who accepts "signed" faxes as a secure document...

      .02

      cLive ;-)

      --
      -- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
    2. Re:Normal people, that's who. by cft_128 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If you are, or are dealing with, a lawyer, a real-estate agent, or anyone who works with contracts, you exchange the contracts via fax. (Typing your name in e-mail doesn't count as a signature.)

      Funny, when I worked with my real estate agent it was as you said with changes faxed back and forth until the final document was barely ledgible, but in the corporate world I've seen with a couple of contract negotiations take places via email and MS Word with track changes turned on.

      The final versions were of course read very carefully by both sides and then signed versions were faxed back and forth.

      --

      Underloved Movies and Pub Quiz: donotquestionme.org

  33. Spammers Always Lie - Trace the call by billstewart · · Score: 4, Informative
    Phone calls from the UK to the US have gotten very cheap these days - the typical telephone card you buy from a convenience store was under 5 cents per minute for US to UK five years ago, so I assume that high-volume business minutes are close to 2-3 cents, not much different from calling within the US. So it could be cheap.

    However, spammers always lie - if they're using an 800 number, there's a high probability that it really _is_ in the US, and they're just claiming to be in England to make you go away. Or the 800 number could be going to a VOIP box in the US which connects them to a call center in the UK. So trace the call - at least with callerid, if nothing else (though that's often inaccurate) and see if you can find out where it's from. If the call is coming in on a direct analog phone line, you can also use one of the phone company features like *69 or your local telco's call tracing versions to check further.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  34. My solution: "I won't purchase from you for a year by B747SP · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I have a minor problem with junk fax and cold calling (call it voice-spam if you will) here in Sydney, Australia.

    One of the most persistent offenders is a two-bit little box-pushing laser printer and supplies company in the north of Sydney called 'IT Imaging' (sales@itimaging.com.au). Their business practises are pretty suspect at the best of times, for eg I called them for a quote on a printer once (that I didn't go through with - too expensive) and they started calling my contemporaries in other departments saying "We're doing business with him, maybe you want to buy from us too?". They're big on junk faxes too.

    When I get cold calls or junk faxes, I just add them to my "don't buy from these arseholes" list, and they stay there for a year. A polite email/fax to the effect of "As a direct and specific consequence of your decision to send me junk [mail|spam|call], I have added your company to my department's do-not-buy list, and your company will not be considered for any [insert product here] requirements for one year from this date]".

    The Apple Centre in Taylor Square are another junk faxer of note here in Sydney, and they're pretty much a permanent resident on the "do not buy" list too!

    Got a call from a girlie trying to be all official sounding, "calling on behalf of sales executive Mister Sales Droid from Fuji Xerox, wondering if you want to buy printers, blah blah". "We like Fuji Xerox as a company, here, because FX sustainable business practices are something we like, BUT, as a direct and specific result of your call...". They get off the phone real quick when you tell them that. I guess they want their year to start as soon as possible, so it will be over ASAP! :-)

    Admittedly, this doesn't help with the anon and hard to contact fax spammers, but it seems to work pretty well on the ones who actually want to do quasi-legitimate business with you.

    --
    I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
  35. Use a fax-modem.... by billstewart · · Score: 4, Insightful
    OK, it's obvious how to implement this with paper faxes, but you _should_ be able to do more interesting things with fax-modems....

    And they're almost certainly receiving the fax on a fax modem, so sending lots of black bits just uses up jpeg space, not human attention. You really want to send them lots of faxes that _look_ like they're real requests, so humans need to waste time reading them.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Use a fax-modem.... by Feanturi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OK, it's obvious how to implement this with paper faxes, but you _should_ be able to do more interesting things with fax-modems....

      But isn't the paper-loop trick just as annoying on a fax-modem? Sure it's not wasting paper/toner on the other end (which is good for everyone really) yet it is hogging their resources. At least one modem from their pool will be out of 'normal' service all weekend while the loop runs. And that's if only one attacker is at work. Who cares if they readily recognize tons of obviously fake faxes when they come in on monday, the point is they couldn't get *any* real ones during the attack.

  36. A way to slove the problem by Kilz · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ok finaly a subject I know something about. My background is that I repair fax and copiers for a major Chicago copier dealer. I am curently trained on over 25 models of fax and 20 multi function or fax/copier/printer all in ones.
    First off most faxes have whats called a junk or spam fax number blocking list. You will have to read how to access it for your fax , but they all have it. Simply add the number to the list and no more faxes will come your way from them.
    Second if you want to pay this person back I have a way designed to hurt someone bad. Simply make 5 copies with the lid up on a copier, this will give you 5 black sheets. Next tape them end to end . Put tape on the end of the long black strip. Insert it in your fax and dial the number. As the lead edge comes through the scaner tape the lead edge with the tape on the end creating a loop. Leave this send for 5 or 60 mins.
    On the other end black sheets will pour out and will not stop. If done on a thermal machine the print head is toast. Best to do it in the middle of the night as no one will be there to unplug the fax.

    --
    I trust Microsoft as far as I could comfortably spit a dead rat
  37. Damn... by anamexis · · Score: 2, Funny
    I tried replying to a spam in my email with a email that just contained a
    <body bgcolor='black'>
    tag, but they just sent me more spam.
  38. Re:Dial-a-thon by spatley · · Score: 3, Informative

    Be careful, calling an 800 number may cost you $$
    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/tmarkg/tol lfre e.htm

  39. Not a reasonable solution by Scott+Richter · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Woops, sorry, this solution requires more effort than plugging the machine into the wall. How could I have even brought it up.

    When you work for a company someday, you'll find that no one wants to pay someone to hack a damned fax machine solution. Believe it or not, most people have jobs that don't allow them such free time. Wanting to "just plug it in" is a quite reasonable expectation. Just because everyone around here has the time, skill, and disposition to fuck around with their hardware doesn't everybody does

    Not to mention that a standard fax machine is simpler and more stable than a computer-based solution for those companies that aren't large enough to really devote time to doing it right.

    Also, there are a lot of reasons why someone's info might not show up on Caller ID - such as being behind a PBX in some instances - and that would basically be giving up on business.

    All in all, that was a very good suggestion for those who don't actually have to run a real business.

    1. Re:Not a reasonable solution by HBI · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Umm, dude, i've been in business probably longer than you have. People like you are the people I make irrelevant and replace. They fail to implement solutions. Your willingness to accept anachronisms is the problem, not my desire to fix problems. You can argue the details all day long - there is a solution to every problem.

      Better watch out behind you, someone is ready to do what you are afraid to do.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    2. Re:Not a reasonable solution by Scott+Richter · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Umm, dude, i've been in business probably longer than you have. People like you are the people I make irrelevant and replace. They fail to implement solutions. Your willingness to accept anachronisms is the problem, not my desire to fix problems. You can argue the details all day long - there is a solution to every problem.

      Unless you're willing to work for free, not everyone has the willingness or ability to pay you. As for your "solution," caller ID can be spoofed, and you ignore the problem where businesses don't have the luxury to lose business to the multitude of people behind PBX's. I have to deal constantly with smartasses who thought they could fix things but screw them up even worse. People would rather deal with a few junk faxes than lose business because a customer's order got rejected.

      Make sure your "solution" doesn't cause more problems than it fixes. In this case, the best solution is a garbage can near the fax.

  40. The website says timeshare by phatsharpie · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the website provided by Slashdot:

    They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel... they sell time shares.

    -B

    1. Re:The website says timeshare by sribe · · Score: 2, Informative

      They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel... they sell time shares.

      AHA! Then the original poster can grab them by the balls and squeeze until they pass out!!!

      Under federal law a U.S. based company who contracts to have spam faxes sent to U.S. phone numbers is subject to the $500/$1500 per fax fine regardless of what country the faxes are sent from. In other words: although you can't touch the U.K. company that's actually sending the faxes, you can sue the company on whose behalf they are being sent--and even win no less ;-)

  41. Re:How about a linux based technology solution? by Scott+Laird · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, works great for me. It re-writes caller-id based on the names in my Mac's address book, recognizes certain callers and uses distinctive ring to tell what's happening, blacklists other numbers. I'm using it to send long-distance calls out via VoIP while still sending local calls via the POTS line that I can't get rid of. Great fun. Details on my blog.

  42. How to fake an order by dtfinch · · Score: 5, Informative

    For academic purposes only. Know the laws of your state.

    First, you'll need a credit card number.
    Visa numbers are constructed like this like this:
    Start with the digit 4
    16 digits altogether
    The checksum they must pass is:
    Take the even digits, double them, and add the resulting digits together to get a new digit. (or just map 0-9 to 0246813579 for the even digits).
    Then add all the digits together. If it's a multiple of 10, the card number is valid. A quick way to generate would be to start with 4 plus 14 random digits, calculate the checksum of those 15 digits, and subtract from 10 to get the remaining digit.

    Their machines will initially accept them, and be forced to contact visa to verify their correctness, at which time they'd fail, but result in small charges to their merchanct account. Enough bad card numbers can get an account suspended.

    1. Re:How to fake an order by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that providing a fake CC number is probably a crime -- maybe even a felony.

      They could argue that you tried to fraudulently obtain a product using a credit card number you knew to be invalid or which you had no authority to use.

      Got to be careful, a pissed-off spammer can be an wicked beast and may just decide to make an example of someone. At least cover your tracks by calling from a public phone.

  43. Slashdot on their website by powerbarr · · Score: 2, Informative

    Evidently this Flamingo Travel has been getting complaints about the one sending spams and it is affecting their business as well. A message is at the top of their website saying it is a different Flamingo Travel.

  44. Faxes on Voicemail by failedlogic · · Score: 2, Informative

    A bit un-related but the most annoying fax SPAM of all: getting Fax SPAMS on voicemail.

    A friend had been getting faxes through voicemail for office supplies. I transferred what part of the fax that was on voicemail to a real fax machine. A complaint to the telephone company (Bell Canada) later and no more! The telephone companies usually take action pretty fast.

  45. Update on Flamingo's Website by Alex711 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Click on the website of the site and you will get the following message (It's probably a good idea to calm down now): We have been recieving phone calls from people angry that we are sending them fax specials like $99 to Disney and Kids Free. Please know that they are NOT coming from Flamingo Travel Group in Pennsylvania. They are coming from a company in Florida calling themselves Flamingo Travel. Their phone number is 1-800-328-9795 and they sell time shares. FILE YOUR COMPLAINT: http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/unwantedfaxes .html ***We do not send faxed specials...ever...period.*** ***We do not send email blasts...we only send email to people that ask for it*** ***We remove people right away if they change thier mind at any time.*** ***We value our privacy and we would never violate yours by sharing privledged contact information. *** ***We have nothing to do with time shares. Personally, I think they are a bad idea*** A reputable Travel Company will provide you with: 1. A Physical Address of thier place of business. 2. Their phone, fax and email information. 3. Their IATA number. 4. They will never ask for your income information...it's none of thier business. 5. Any reputable company should allow you time to check them out, offer information to help you check them out and this information should be verifiable.

  46. Call from a payphone! by stox · · Score: 3, Informative

    It costs the recipient $0.25+ for each call from a payphone. Hit'em where it hurts.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  47. Re:You had better not. by joeldg · · Score: 2, Funny

    hrm.. I currently have a cluster on an unmetered t3 hammering the shit out of them..
    anyone got the real addy?

  48. Junkbusters have lots of advice on this topic by MCRocker · · Score: 2, Informative

    JunkBUSTERS has a good web page on dealing with junk faxes. They also have lots of good, practical advice on lots of other related communications abuses. This is a site that is well worth checking out.

    --
    Signatures are a waste of bandwi (buffering...)
  49. Small Claims Court ... by Art+Pollard · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can still take them to small claims court. Keep in mind, you can recover $500 plus collection expenses. Thus it is $500 plus the cost of having the suit served in England and your court fees.

    After you get a judgement (which you will do since they will most likely not show up), you can put a lien on any propety or bank accounts or other aspects of their business in the United States. You may even be able to approach Visa / Mastercard and attach a lien against their accounts. Furthermore, once you have a judgement, you should be able to pursue them across national lines due to the many treaties that are in place.

    I sure would like to see their expression once they realize that yes, you can pursue them across national bounderies. -Art

  50. HOW I FOUGHT IT AND WON!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're right, slashdot is definitely the arena to put something like this if you want mass calls. If you don't have access to this though you may be able to fight it a different way. Here's an example...

    I got those same FaxSpam messages and tried getting unsubscribed many many times. I left messages, I left my contact information and in turn got fed up and applied a technical response to the problem.

    The number listed on my FaxSpam was a 3+ minute recording of some guy yacking about the fool proof money making method of the month. I'm sure it cost him $.25 per call considering the legth of the message.

    I had a bank of innactive modems for a newly de-installed dial-in system for my company. I fired it back up and attached it to a management computer. I then proceeded to plug all 48 modems back into our PBX lines (no numbers listed to be blocked) and wrote a cute script to war-dial on all 48 modems the 800 number listed. I ran the script for about an hour to test its stability and then shut it off.

    I figured I'd give the spammer one more shot to remove my company's information and called the number in person. I left a polite message saying who I was and that I was once again requesting to be removed from his fax list. I left my number and a temporary e-mail address saying, that I was aware of how much each call was costing him and that I would repeatedly call to take up his time and money. I waited 24 hours and gave him every chance to remove me. That next night we received the same barage of fax spams to all of the fax machines at my company. I turned my script back on and let the program run away. It ran for about 36 hours before I received a call back from the guy that ran the FaxSpam list. He had left the message whie I was out of my office but it boiled down to him begging me to stop calling. By the time I got the message(2 hours later), the 800 number had been disconnected. We noticed a significant drop-off in FaxSpam before I left the company.

  51. Re:Dial-a-thon by homer_ca · · Score: 2, Informative

    So use a pay phone. It's safer anyway because toll free numbers always get your caller ID even if you block it. Plus they actually get billed a surcharge to receive calls from payphones.

  52. Stopping junk faxes by TomBeckman · · Score: 2, Informative

    I used to get serveral junk faxes every day. I called the phone company to modify the fax line configuration only to accept calls that presented caller ID information. This stopped all of the junk faxes.

  53. Answered your own question... by Angst+Badger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do I have nowhere to turn except an expensive lawyer, armed with no information about the company?

    No, you could always post an article on Slashdot with the actual 800 number, implicitly urging innumerable irritable geeks to inundate them with bizarre crank calls.

    Wait, you already did that.

    --
    Proud member of the Weirdo-American community.
  54. Here is an FTC link clarifying this... by ErnstKompressor · · Score: 3, Informative

    800 number scams

    Seems you need to agree beforehand to a billing arrangement or provide a CC # before you begin recieving 'services'.

    --
    We apologise for the fault in this post. Those responsible have been sacked. -- Signed RICHARD M. NIXON
    1. Re:Here is an FTC link clarifying this... by XryanX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My father is a lawyer, and he had to get his sister out of a nice sized psychic hotline bill.

      It turns out that they have to prove that you agreed to the charges, but then they usually don't inform you that you're being taped. Being that it's a crime to record someone's voice without their permission, they usually drop it.

  55. vigilante by chri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I run a home business, and I feel utterly at the mercy of these parasites. Between calls, faxes and junk email, I am kept in a constant state of agitation and unproductivity. My plan has always been that if my business ever fails and I no longer have any monetary assets to loose, I will drop out of society and drift from city to city sabotaging telemarketers (stealing paper and toner, cutting phone lines, etc... nothing too violent). It is pleasing to know that I have a fall-back plan.

    I don't mean to give anyone ideas, but I'd be surprised if among the entire Slashdot community there isn't someone ready to do this. Such a person would become a hero to millions! One drawback is the possibility of prison time, and potential mistreatment - so keep this in mind. Also, don't physically hurt anyone.

    --
    greetings earthlings
  56. I have a solution by ChiralSoftware · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm not yet sure of the details, but do you remember the scene in Brasil where the Central Services guys were "fixing" the HVAC systems in the appartment, and then Tuttle comes in on his zip line and does a cross-over between the sewer output line and the suit air input line and then the two Central Services guys suits fill up with sewage and explode? We need to somehow cross-connect the fax spammers with 419 scammers so they work on eachother.

  57. Re:Is 1-800 really 1-900 by jubitzu · · Score: 2, Informative

    800 is always toll free. 899 or something like that might be a toll number. that is the scam you heard about.

  58. Re:How to fake... --- can't this hurt the innocent by nacturation · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well, there's about a 1 in 10^13 chance of that happening for the actual number. Plus, you'd need to get the expiry date correct. Assuming a conservative 2 year window for month/year combinations, this makes it 24 times less likely you'd stumble upon a valid one. Oh, and not to mention the name wouldn't match. Suffice it to say I don't think you'd ever hit upon a valid credit card number with matching expiry in your lifetime.

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  59. Re:Copy of Original Spam?? by iotashan · · Score: 2, Informative

    At the risk of bringing my poor server to it's knees, or getting a huge bandwidth bill, here's a copy of the lastest spam fax: http://www.iotashan.com/spamfax.gif

  60. some more numbers for the bored by menscher · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's great to save your junk mail in a folder, cause then you can grep for (800) numbers. Here are a few from the past week:

    1-800-KaBloom
    1-800-884-9510

    The first seems to want to sell flowers. You have to press 1 or 2 to talk to someone, so configure that into your modem dial scripts (a comma will add a pause in the dial sequence, so put in enough to let them answer before autodialing the extension).

    The second is trying to sell computers, and a human answers right away.

    I chatted with the people at both ends, and they were quite friendly. They said I'd have to ask customer service if I wanted to get my questions answered about how profitable their spamming was. Unfortunately customer service has already gone home for the day.

    Have fun!

  61. Re:Dial-a-thon by jmichaelb · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The solution is not vigilantism. Calling a number to harass the company and its employees is illegal, immoral and cannot be justified.

    This is a blatant call to action for vigilante harassment. It is irresponsible and unjustifiable to publish such an article.

    Yes, this company is scum sucking slime. If you call a toll-free just to harass them, so are you.

  62. Data Protection Act by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2, Interesting
    If they are in the UK then you can mention the Data Protection Act which will apply to them. I bleieve that under this act you can insist they remove all computer records about you. Demonstrating some knowledge of our laws should at least remove the smug tone from their voice!

    To all the posts claiming that it is too expensive to send faxes from the UK, think again. For $2.95 a month here in Canada I get 6 cents (Canadian)/minute to the UK whereas for an extra $2.95/month I can only get 7 cents/minute to somewhere else in Canada so it would actually be cheaper to fax Canada from the UK than from within Canada!

  63. Getting them back by hawado · · Score: 3, Funny

    We used to get a fax for free hair stuff until we took a 6 foot length of paper wrote "Stop Faxing us" on it, fed one end into our fax machine, created a big loop and faxed it back to the company once they had cloed up for the night... If you can get their fax number by hook or by crook... give it a try. If anything it will either tie up their computer fax or kill thier stack of paper and toner in one night.

    --
    Feed my eyes...
  64. Re:Copy of Original Spam?? by EboMike · · Score: 3, Informative

    To save your server from that fate, I'll pseudo-transcribe the fax:

    ###

    Disney Vacation (KIDS ARE FREE!)

    4 Days
    3 Nights
    in Orlando
    $99 per person
    double occupancy

    This Special Rate is Limited to the first 50 Purchasers Today!

    {[Ask about our all inclusive 3 day 2 Night Cruise to the Bahamas!]}

    INCLUDES: 2 Disney Tickets FREE!

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  65. FPS is the wrong people. by jrumney · · Score: 2, Informative
    but rather smugly told me that they are in England so they do not have to obey the US unsolicited fax laws. She wouldn't provide me with any other company information, and then stopped answering calls from my number after repeated hang-ups. The FCC says that it is a civil matter, and to go through the courts. The Fax Preference Service in the UK says they cannot help people outside the UK.

    First, a bit about UK law, which they do have to comply with if they are doing this from the UK. If you contact them directly and ask to be removed from their list, then they are committing an offense if they call you again.

    The FPS is a UK-wide do not call list maintained by the Direct Marketers Association. All marketers are supposed to treat it the same as having called them directly to be removed from the list, but the only penalty for not following this seems to be a slap on the wrist and maybe getting booted out of the DMA. The DMA is not interested in enforcing the law, particularly against non-members.

    Ultimately, enforcement is up to Ofcom and the Information Commissioner. If you do make a complaint, be sure to include the response you got from FPS, I'm sure they'd be interested to see how self-policing by the DMA really works.

  66. Use their weapons against them! by RogerBacon · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Think, Gentlemen, think! Modern technology is a two-edged sword. They want to make random offers to all and sundry with no repercussions. Use their indifference and lack of proper managment against them. Use their business systems and software usage against them!

    When you start receiving repeated offers from a fax marketer, determine who the company really is, play along to get them to send a for-real offer via fax, then fax them a rejection of their offer and fax them a counteroffer to "evaluate future fax advertising materials". for $500.00 per each junk advertising fax you receive in the future.

    Note specifically in your counteroffer fax that you are responding to their initial fax offer and their faxed followup for-real offer. Throw in a few terms and conditions like: liquidated damages of $2500 (or the maximum your local small claims court will give), net 30 billing, the name you will bill them under (such as "Advertising Evaluation Services Company"), and MOST IMPORTANT: TELL THEM THAT THEY CAN ACCEPT YOUR COUNTEROFFER BY SENDING ANOTHER FAX ADVERTISEMENT FOR THEIR GOODS AND SERVICES TO YOUR FAX NUMBER, THE SAME ONE THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN USING. Otherwise (you tell them) they no longer have your permission to use your computer and computer supplies (such as fax paper and toner) by sending advertisements to your fax number.

    Now, when you receive their next fax, do exactly what you said you would do in your counteroffer: take a look at it, then prepare a bill for your time and send it to their billing office. They may pay it right away, especially if it looks official, you use some business-like name and provide a nice classy professional description of your services. If they do not pay, after a couple months file suit in small claims court for the maximum small claims amount allowed, typically $2000-5000 or so. (assuming, of course, your faxed counteroffer had a per-occurence liquidated damages clause of whatever that maximum is.

    So what happens? They may pay automatically. If not, you file suit in small claims. By the time they realize that they have made an offer (the initial fax and/or the followup fax), received a counter offer (your fax back to them with your rejection and your modified terms) and have accepted the counteroffer (when they kept sending you advertisements), it will be too late. You will have hardcopies of their initial offer, your counteroffer, and copies of the faxes you received in response to your counteroffer. If I were a small claims judge, I would see this as a slam dunk case in your favor, and would be laughing hysterically in chambers afterward when I ordered them to cough up the cash. Of course, it only works if the company is local or regional and therefore amenable to small claims.

    You see, the internet and fax machines permit them to go make offers like crazy, throwing trash terms and advertisements at everyone heedlessly. They do not check up on who is sending the offers out, whether illegally to blocked numbers or not. They just don't care. Their management systems are not tight and things (like obeying the law and actually reading your counteroffer) fall between the cracks.

    The process I describe above, as long as you respond to their faxes, as long as you tell them very plainly exactly what you are going to do and how you will bill them, etc, and as long as you keep paper copies of all the faxes you receive from them and send to them, cannot be considered as fraud. Believe me, if they catch on only after paying several of your bills, they will feel like utter fools, but there is no judge in the land who would find your actions to be fraudulent or criminal if you were quite upfront. Indeed, most would gleefully realize how you finessed the fax monsters and order them to pay up immediately in small claims.

    NOTE: I am not your attorney. If you want an attorney, hire one. If you are interested in this idea, take it to your local attorney and get his opinion.

  67. Re:Dialing error rate by Anonym0us+Cow+Herd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the phone system itself is responsible for some misdials. The original analog phone system design requirement was for high availability, i.e. the system is always up and running.

    Just to point out that the when the phone system was designed, they had no term "high availability". It is a machine. They built it well. Just as everyone who built any kind of machine at the time.

    The term "high availability" wasn't invented (due to lack of necessity) until people began attempting to run web servers on Windows.

    Necessity is the mother of invention. (Lazyness is the father.)

    --
    The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
  68. Complain to Ofcom (Office of Communications). by Martin+Spamer · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Nuisance/Unsolicited calls or fax are certainly against the rules and the company can be cut off of even prosecuted.

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk.