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Linux Filesystems Benchmarked

smatt-man writes "Over at Linux Gazette they ran some tests on popular Linux filesystems (ext2, ext3, jfs, reiserfs, xfs) and the results may surprise you."

128 of 468 comments (clear)

  1. 'Tis a dupe by Quattro+Vezina · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
    1. Re:'Tis a dupe by JCMay · · Score: 2

      Does Taco even read his own page?

      And now, 20 seconds of filler to get around the lameness filter. blah blah blah.

    2. Re:'Tis a dupe by chrwei · · Score: 2, Informative

      something is missing from these tests that I've informaly tested myself before. I'd like to see what this guys scores are after using the HD for a couple months. Let a little fragmentation in then see what they do. ReiserFS will hold up much better in the long run. I used xfs ONCE, after a month my PC was slower than a year old never defraged install of NT4. used a spare HD to migrate to reiser and no probs 2 years later. And for the whinners complaining of power loss, get a battery! best $100 i ever spent.

      --
      - Disclaimer: Information in this post deemed reliable but not guaranteed.
  2. -1 Offtopic by numbski · · Score: 4, Funny

    tests on popular Linux filesystes

    So did the tests come back positive or negative? Systes are nasty things, and early detection is important to increase chances of survivability.

    Remember kids. Test early, and test often. You files will thank you.

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

  3. Not a clear winner by stecoop · · Score: 5, Interesting
    These charts make the choice of which file system to use clear as mud. What is the charts really saying? From what I gather, it appears that:

    EXT2 has better throughput

    EXT3 has better file handling capablities

    Reiser has better search ablity

    XFS has better delete capablities

    JFS may be a better choice in regards to file manipulation Subject to debate of course...

    1. Re:Not a clear winner by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not quite what I got from it. Ext2 was certainly faster for a lot of operations, but is, of course, not journalled. XFS and JFS were fast, but most importantly, when it came to large files, these two tended to really take the lead. XFS was particularly good at handling large files. Overall Ext3 was disappointingly slow surprisingly often.

      Jedidiah.

    2. Re:Not a clear winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
      Ext3 met Dr. Tweedie's engineering goals. The idea was to develop a journaling file system which was seamlessly compatible with Ext2. Ext3 is really an engineering marvel. You can instantly convert it back and forth between Ext2 an Ext3.

      Ext3 provides a safe low-pain entry into the world of journaled file systems. No need to re-partition or reformat. It offers reasonably good performance plus the benefits of journalling.

    3. Re:Not a clear winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've been using ext4 for a few months now and it's a surprising improvment over ext3 in terms of performance. I was surprised to see that they didn't include it in their interview. Ext4 has this to say regarding the older file systems, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". Surprisingly, ext4 is journalled, handles larger files quite readily, and can fit a cigar vaginally in all female users of Linux. I'd highly advise all Linux geeks to try out ext4. It's a big step beyond all the other filesystems.

    4. Re:Not a clear winner by ValourX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, it's mountable from FreeBSD. Reiser, XFS and JFS are not.

      This may seem trivial until you have a dual boot system with FreeBSD and GNU/Linux and you want to transfer your /home dir or whatever.

      -Jem
    5. Re:Not a clear winner by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tests such as these will always make things clear as mud. Engineering is always a matter of compromise. Trade offs must be made.

      Do you want a car that goes really, really fast, or do you want a car that gets good milage and has a really big back seat? ( You can always lie about having run out of gas).

      Neither car is "best" until you define its intended use, and they both make lousy hammers. I canna change the laws of physics.

      Different engineers have different ideas, different goals and different ways of going about things. Thus their output will vary in performance across a range of parameters. Pick the tool that compliments your primary need, then put up with the compromises that inherently entails. It's the best you can do, and yes, even FAT 16 may be the "winner" for certain functions.

      KFG

    6. Re:Not a clear winner by Lussarn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can't see the slashdoted page but if you have a mailserver and are using maildirs (qmail) ReiserFS is a good choice because you will have alot of small files. Reiser can use the space on your disk fully and are not limited to "at least as big as the blocksize".

      I have a mailserver which have about 20GB mail with Reiser. With Ext3 it would be over 30GB.

    7. Re:Not a clear winner by ImpTech · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not to mention mountable under Windows... for those of us that still need that. Or rather, EXT2 is mountable under Windows (with a 3rd party daemon), and thus EXT3 can be read as well.

    8. Re:Not a clear winner by aled · · Score: 2, Funny

      So if I want to trash my files XFS would be the faster, right? :-)

      --

      "I think this line is mostly filler"
    9. Re:Not a clear winner by perlchild · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No mention of data=writeback, or any other optimisation tweaks, however. Kinda sad. The article is nice, the graphs are.... Err too much of a good thing?
      And basically the results just reiterate the design imperatives of each filesystem(how unsurprising!)

      - ext2 predates them all
      - ext3 is a low-impact, let's reuse what we know as much as possible, kinda file system
      - reiser's b-trees reflect it's "once we put the data in, how do we find it again" orientation
      - XFS was at least at one point, designed for "Media" files(think renderfarms), aka LARGE files, much of the benchmarks it won were on such files, although its design was also influenced by large-scale server needs(a renderfarm is a large-scale server cluster right?)
      - JFS was influenced by large-scale server needs(databases), but tampered by OS/2's needs, and other systems, resulting in a filesystem that's a bit more nimble than XFS, but less handy with huge files(normal, since databases try to use raw-io if necessary on huge files, unlike render clusters)

      I think this demonstrates the implications of early design imperatives on long-term software trends. XFS and JFS were developed for other platforms and ported to linux, yet notice how they can't really change their strengths(good thing too!).

      Anyone try the same benchmark on the 2.6 kernel just to contrast it? Wouldn't the new IO-system help to mitigate those weird ext2/ext3 slowdowns the article mentions, but doesn't explain?

    10. Re:Not a clear winner by demon4 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      so what would be a good filesystem to use for a pvr (personal video recorder)? How about for a mail server or web server? XFS i am guessing for the pvr and reiser for the others.

    11. Re:Not a clear winner by lecca · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Overall Ext3 was disappointingly slow surprisingly often."

      I disagree, plus this test is obsolete, why did he use a 2.4 kernel?!

      from: http://freshmeat.net/projects/linux/?branch_id=463 39&release_id=160407

      "Linux 2.6.6
      [...]
      Changes:
      ...ext2 and ext3 filesystem performance was significantly improved. "

      And thats just from today's kernel release. What about all the changes between 2.4 and now?

      Considering the conveniance of backward compatability, and the fact that ext3 wasn't the worst in every category, and it looks like maybe uses less cpu than some, it seems like ext3 is the hands-down winner of the test, not the looser. ext3 did as well in tests that IMO represent everyday use. Who creates 10k files in a folder? I would have liked to see a linux kernel COMPILE using the fs. Thats something we all could appreciate.

      --
      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" - George Orwell
    12. Re:Not a clear winner by mindriot · · Score: 3, Informative

      Reiserfs can at least be accessed under Windows.

      My personal peeve with ReiserFS is, though, that I've had the main ReiserFS partition on my Laptop completely destroyed by a simple power failure once. Many files were in lost+found afterwards, but some had their contents destroyed. (And restoring files by looking at their contents is not fun for ~1000 files...) So I've kinda lost trust in it. ext3 may be slow, but I've never had a single problem with it. Seems very robust to me. So, reliability is more important than speed for me (whoever needs performant servers is of course entitled to a different opinion). XFS and JFS seemingly can't be accessed from Windows, so that is a Minus for some.

    13. Re:Not a clear winner by arcade · · Score: 2, Informative

      My personal peeve with ReiserFS is, though, that I've had the main ReiserFS partition on my Laptop completely destroyed by a simple power failure once.

      I've been experimenting by using ReiserFS on and off for the last 3 years or so. I've always shied away after a few failures.

      My scorebook so far:
      - Laptop /home partition went to hell twice, at power failure.
      - Two various machines at previous work got open files in /home partition smothered at power failure, had to rm -rf .kde for the system to get up'n running again.
      - Mums computer. Had to travel 500km to fix a reiserfs fuckup due to repeated power failures.
      - Dad's laptop got a partition trashed by reiserfs when he forgot to put in his power cord and the battery time were used up.

      Reiserfs is the single most unstable piece of shit of a filesystem I've ever had to deal with. No, I'll not be using it again anytime soon.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
  4. Slightly OT by iReflect · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is good information to know, but for a project I'm working on I need to know which filesystem can take the most abuse. I'm talking about power-outages and hard-resets mostly. I know I should go journalled, but which one? What else should I keep in mind.

    1. Re:Slightly OT by Malc · · Score: 5, Informative

      Obviously (as you point out) a journallying filesystem is what you need. I went for Ext3 on my Debian servers. I/O throughput wasn't so important. The good thing about Ext3 is its backwards-compatibility with Ext2. If there's a problem and you don't have all the kernel modules or tools then you're still pretty much guarranteed access to the file system by mounting it as Ext2 as support for that system is almost universal under Linux.

    2. Re:Slightly OT by Der+Krazy+Kraut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The backwards compatibility is really not an issue anymore. Modern filesystems have been supported by all major distributions for years now. And if everything else fails, you can always use Knoppix, which can access pretty much everything.

    3. Re:Slightly OT by Bombcar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, I believe that ext3 is the only filesystem to allow journalling of data above and beyond just metadata.

      Use the mount option data=journal, see man mount for more information.

      I do know that RieserFS has some "features" that are unexpected and can be agrivated by powerfailure during write.

      But don't worry, Hans says it's designed that way, and your filesystem will be intact, even if /etc/fstab contains lines from /var/log/messages......

      XFS is good, but cannot be shrunk. EXT3 can shrink, but I don't know about the others. I'm going to have to investigate JFS, which right now is the bastard stepchild, ignored by most......

    4. Re:Slightly OT by SoTuA · · Score: 2, Informative

      There are mount options that will journal only data, only the metadata (as most journaling filesystems do) or both.

    5. Re:Slightly OT by Tet · · Score: 5, Informative
      But I thought Ext3 will only journal metadata

      No, in fact ext3 is one of the few that actually will journal data as well as metadata.

      mount -t ext3 -odata=journal /dev/os/usr /usr
      --
      "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
    6. Re:Slightly OT by Rik+van+Riel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ext3 has most of its metadata (inodes, block group descriptors, etc) in fixed places on disk and e2fsck has a decade of testing in cleaning up the non-journaled ext2, so it's probably better tested than any of the fscks for journaling filesystems.

    7. Re:Slightly OT by LinuxHam · · Score: 2, Interesting

      EXT3 can shrink, but I don't know about the others

      I've heard that EXT3 cannot shrink and that ReiserFS is the only one that can. While not a demo of shrinking, here's part 2 of a 3-part series of articles on using ReiserFS with LVM. This segment shows off resizing a partition without even unmounting it!

      --
      Intelligent Life on Earth
  5. Slashdot filesystem by Bronster · · Score: 5, Funny

    Maybe slashdot needs a filesystem update to one with more powerful meta-data support like something that can detect when the same URL has been used in more than one post within a certain time. Sheesh.

  6. The real question . . . by SquareOfS · · Score: 4, Funny
    . . . is which file system linuxgazette is running.

    That is, before it melted.

    1. Re:The real question . . . by MrZaius · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd like to see how you...can handle 10,000 simultaneous connections!

      Why, with CODA of course!

  7. duplicate on the same page by scrytch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Duplicate, spelling errors, and nothing but the short submission. Google is relaunching its blogger service -- tell me again what slashdot provides over it?

    --
    I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
  8. I'm shocked! by lorcha · · Score: 4, Funny
    the results may surprise you.
    The server at the link provided is not responding!

    You're right, that was a total surprise.

    --
    "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
  9. Your graphs are unreadable by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And the reason is that you used jpegs. jpegs are for photographs; use gif for images such as this. The text won't end up unreadbly blurry and you'll save tons of disk space/bandwidth.

    1. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by eddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >Use gif for images such as this.

      No, use PNG.

      If you're going to do it, do it right. Using GIFs is half-assed.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    2. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by B2382F29 · · Score: 4, Informative

      PNGs are smaller than GIFs, better compression, etc. (if you use same color-depth (8 bit)).

      --
      Move Sig. For great justice.
    3. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by eddy · · Score: 5, Informative

      >Web site accessibility (use image type supported by all major browsers)

      All the "good features" of GIF is supported by PNG in all current browsers. You'd have to go back in time fem years to find a browser that can't display a basic PNG. If you think otherwise, give me a link to one that matters that doesn't, and explain to me why, if it wasn't released/updated this year, using it isn't a security issue.

      Since GIF doesn't support per-pixel-alpha to begin with, you lose nothing by using PNG for everything. After all, with GIF you didn't have the choice at all so there is no issue with simply "converting to PNG".

      Score: PNG

      >Bandwidth conservation

      PNGs are always smaller where it matters (anything more complex than 1x1x1-images). In some not atypical cases a PNG can be 25% smaller than the corresponding GIF.

      Score: PNG

      PS. GIF-via-LZW is still encumbered in many countries.

      More features, better standard, solid software, no licensing issues, smaller output == Winner: PNG

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    4. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by Captain+Rotundo · · Score: 4, Informative

      name a "major browser" that won't support PNG. I don't know one. I use all PNG and have checked all my pages in enough "major" browsers to cover probably greater than 99% of people and they display fine.

    5. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by quake74 · · Score: 2, Informative
      name a "major browser" that won't support PNG. I don't know one. I use all PNG and have checked all my pages in enough "major" browsers to cover probably greater than 99% of people and they display fine.
      Did you check transparency in Windows Explorer? As far as I know, it's not supported, unless you play some weird tricks. Or maybe you were making a joke, and I didn't get it.
    6. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by tuffy · · Score: 5, Informative

      IE is still too stupid to properly do an alpha channeled PNG. But it does do 1-bit, GIF-style transparency and displays generic, non-transparent PNGs just fine. And so the only place left to use GIF for is crummy animations.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    7. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't forget to limit the PNG to 16 or 256 colours if only that many are being used. Needless to say, it makes a big difference in file size compared to using true color.

    8. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by Dave2+Wickham · · Score: 3, Informative

      1) I often find PNGs to be smaller than GIFs.
      2) Who cannot see PNGs? IE supports them, Opera supports them, Netscape/libpr0n-based browsers all support PNGs. Hell, even Links 2 when run in X or svgalib supports PNG.

    9. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by Etyenne · · Score: 4, Informative
      PNG transparency works fine in IE as long as you don't try to do partial transparency. For simple on/off transparency (the same as what GIF offers), there are no problem with IE5 and up.

      More precisely, the PNG need to be in indexed mode (aka PNG8) for full transparency to work in IE. In The GIMP, click the "Image" menu, "Mode", "Indexed".

      Some myth ("IE don't support PNG !!!") really die hard.

      --
      :wq
    10. Re:Your graphs are unreadable by repetty · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Some myth ("IE don't support PNG !!!") really die hard."

      Let me put it this way...

      You wouldn't want your girlfriend to be faithful to you to the same degree that IE support PNG.

  10. reiserfs? by emc · · Score: 4, Funny
    I like Paul Reiser as much as the next guy... but naming a filesystem after him?


    I mean, really. "Mad about You" was a fine TV show... but this good?

    How long until we see McKellenFS?

    1. Re:reiserfs? by evilviper · · Score: 2, Funny
      I like Paul Reiser as much as the next guy... but naming a filesystem after him?

      Of course he's from Mad About GNU...
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  11. here's the link to the original by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://209.81.41.149/~jpiszcz/index.html

    it's not slashdotted yet :)

  12. Since article has been ./ed.... by vwjeff · · Score: 5, Funny

    here is the winner. FAT 16

    1. Re:Since article has been ./ed.... by mirror_dude · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just in case people want to read the article and dont have 30 minutes for it to load I put up a mirror here ...

      --
      Note to Mods: When I post mirrors, it's a best guess. I don't know for certain whether or not the site will go down!
    2. Re:Since article has been ./ed.... by PGillingwater · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For those who are concerned about loss of permissions, filename case, long names, etc., may I offer a simple solution -- wrap your files in .tar or .cpio archives.

      If you need "live" access to the files, then simply create a loopback ext2/3 file system (which can also be encrypted), which is stored in a single large file in the FAT partition. Mount it on a loopback device, and your other problems are moot.

      --
      Paul Gillingwater
      MBA, CISSP, CISM
  13. The conclusion by broothal · · Score: 2, Informative

    Site already /.'ed (when will slashdot ever learn to use a cache - either freecahce or make their own?)

    Anyway, all rants aside, here's the conclusion from the tests (there were some graphs as well but I couldn't make sense of them anyway):

    CONCLUSION

    For those of you still reading, congrats! The conclusion is obvious by the "Total Time For All Benchmarks Test." The best journaling file system to choose based upon these results would be: JFS, ReiserFS or XFS depending on your needs and what types of files you are dealing with. I was quite surprised how slow ext3 was overall, as many distributions use this file system as their default file system. Overall, one should choose the best file system based upon the properties of the files they are dealing with for the best performance possible

    1. Re:The conclusion by broothal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This question has been answered over and over.

      I must have missed the memo

      And the answer is: never.

      Please give me a link to a /. editor saying that.

      It would be neither legal nor ethical for Slashdot to mirror/cache content for articles posted on slashdot.

      So you're saying that freecache and google are illegal?

      Many site relies on banner ad revenue. Caching content would deprive those sites from the revenue generated by traffic. Plus there is the whole copyright issue.

      If you don't cache the images, the banners will still show (as google does it).

    2. Re:The conclusion by avdp · · Score: 2, Informative

      No problem, it's right in the slashdot FAQs

  14. Hrmmm by nizo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    See the whole article and a full range of hideously colored full sized graphs here before it gets slashdotted too. Speaking of which, there has got to be better graph making software out there in Linuxland......

    1. Re:Hrmmm by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 2, Informative
      Speaking of which, there has got to be better graph making software out there in Linuxland...

      There is: gnuplot, an utterly wonderful little program. I use it all the time.

  15. Best Filesystem for Production System by dduardo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right now I'm running reiserfs under gentoo and I recently lost some rather important data, which has made me a little skeptical in using it in a production system. Therefore I'm asking you guys which filesystem do you think is good for a webserver that will be handling a medium sized database and a significant number of transacations each day.

    1. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by molarmass192 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I use JFS and it's been pretty good thus far. It's been around for a long time and it's backed by IBM, so that makes it a pretty safe bet for production use in my mind. I used to use Ext3 before that and experienced a few data losses that caused me to make a switch. I can't comment on Reiser or XFS since I haven't used 'em.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    2. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by Mr+Smidge · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I have ran reiserfs on my fileserver ever since it existed, and like you it corrupted once and I lost data.

      However, I pinned it down to a faulty drive (Quantum Fireball, hehe, which never acted up under NTFS/Win2k.. oh well). I was close to blaming reiserfs, but once I put in a quality hard drive and reinstalled, it's run like clockwork. Perfectly.

      There sure haven't been too many stabilty issues with reiserfs in my experience. Try another drive as a test and see if the same happens.

    3. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by Sxooter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are using IDE drives with the write cache enabled, then NO journaling file system is safe on your system. This is because IDE drives with write cache respond immediately to requests for fsync with true, whether they've written the data out or not.

      If your data is important, either turn off the cache on your IDE drive or buy a SCSI drive, which won't lie about fsync. This is a problem for both linux and BSD.

      Later model IDE drivers and drives may be able to work properly with cache enabled, but not now. There are ongoing discussions on BOTH kernel hackers lists, BSD and Linux, about what to do, and no solution in sight.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    4. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by chthon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Please read this

      Just to show that it depends upon the application you need to run.

      Now, you will not hear me say that you should not use ReiserFS, for a desktop it is probably the best choice, but for servers, please think again.

      In addition to that, my own experiences with ReiserFS are mostly positive, especially on my 233 Mhz laptop, but I have also a big system with a Promise SX6000 raid controller, where I had a partition with ReiserFS, ext3 and JFS using Red Hat 9. Everytime I did file operations using ReiserFS I got problems with the consistency of my RAID 5 array, so I scrapped ReiserFS and only kept ext3 and JFS, which give me no problems anymore.

    5. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by Sxooter · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nice article, thanks for the link.

      It looks like Oracle has gotten the same basic results as the PostgreSQL Global Development Group have. JFS and ext3 are generally the fastest under a database, while XFS and Reiser seem to be pretty slow.

      The odd thing here is that most other tests show XFS and Reiser as the kings. But the kind of random access databases do seems to be better handled by JFS / ext3.

      The problems with your RAID consistency, were these file system problems, or RAID level problems? If they're RAID level problems that would seem to point at your RAID controller, as no file system should be able to bonk a RAID array on the head, since it doesn't really have that kind of access to it.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    6. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by Sxooter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Here's a brief time line based explanation.

      The OS writes to the journal what it's going to do.
      It calls fsync to make sure the journal is on the disk.
      The disk says "oh yeah, it's there."
      The file system then writes the actual data, and fsyncs that. The disk, again, tells it that it wrote the data out. The file system then marks that part of the journal as having been written.

      However, the disk hasn't actually written out its cache yet. It lied to the OS / file system and said it had, but it hasn't, it's busy doing something else. Poof, the power goes out.

      Now, the journal doesn't have our data, we've already cleared it out, and the file system, which is supposed to have been coherent because we fsynced it, is not, and it is now corrupted.

      I have reproduced this behavior a dozen or more times on IDE based systems. The only way to stop it is to tell the drive to stop using it's write cache.

      Now, SCSI drives don't lie about fsync. At least none of the ones I've tested have done that. so, when the file system asks the disk to fsync and reports back that it has fsynced, the data really is on the drive. And we can now roll forward the journal pointed and proceed with the knowledge our data is coherent on the drive.

      You can prove this to yourself. Set up a server on IDE and another on SCSI. Install postgresql, running on a journaled file system like ext3, and then run the follow commands on each:

      Setup:
      pgbench -i -s 10
      Test:
      pgbench -c 100 -t 100000

      Now, in the middle of the test on both machines, pull the plug.

      When you restart the machines, the SCSI one will come right up, database coherent and no problem. the IDE one will fail, at least every so often, or as in my experience, nearly every time.

      --

      --- It is not the things we do which we regret the most, but the things which we don't do.
    7. Re:Best Filesystem for Production System by arcade · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Now, you will not hear me say that you should not use ReiserFS, for a desktop it is probably the best choice, but for servers, please think again.

      It's only the best choice if used by computer literate people.

      I've had to travel 500km one time too much to fix a reiserfs-using-desktop-computer that didn't want to boot due to ReiserFS spitting out strange error messages and waiting for input.

      Not having heard the messages before, nor managing to discern them over the phone, I finally had to travel far too long just to fix the damn computer.

      --
      "Rune Kristian Viken" - http://www.nwo.no - arca
  16. The tests don't show everything by Ignorant+Aardvark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While they do measure stuff like access times in ms, they don't mention recovery times (chkfs) that are mentioned in ms for reiserfs and mins for ext2. And they don't mention reinstallation times (measured in hours) which occurs for ext2 a lot more than the journalling filesystems :-)

    1. Re:The tests don't show everything by dbIII · · Score: 2, Informative
      And they don't mention reinstallation times (measured in hours) which occurs for ext2 a lot more than the journalling filesystems :-)
      What the fsck are you talking about? When the filesystem has problems you just need to run fsck like on any unix system from the last decade and more instead of doing the windows thing of reformatting and re-install. Certainly it's a scary thing, but you don't have to throw everything away just because you get a few easily fixable filesystem errors.
  17. Speed means absolutely nothing by codepunk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally I could care less which file system is fastest. The most important aspect to a file system is how stable it is with my important data. All the speed in the world means absolutely nothing if the file system is not stable. EXT 3 has never ever let me down so I intend to stick with it, at least until RedHat releases their version of GFS.

    --


    Got Code?
    1. Re:Speed means absolutely nothing by flaming-opus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While GFS is a fine filesystem for a cluster, I'm not sure what use it will be in a non-cluster environment. There's a lot of things you have to do in a cluster filesystem to ensure data consistency between nodes. It is true that a non-cluster GFS can replace a lot of these functions with a nop, but it still affects the way you structure the code.

      GFS has a nice, relatively asynchronous journal implementation. However, I don't know that it will perform well on small file I/Os, particularly deletes. It's also somewhat complicated to configure and manage. Seems like a real bother if you're not going to use it in a cluster.

    2. Re:Speed means absolutely nothing by G00F · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree, and after having bad blocks with a reiserfs system, I don't want to touch reiserfs again. reiserfs has no way to deal with bad blocks. Only a hack that you have to implament everytime your system does a fsck. You basicaly fake it that those bad blocks have a file.
      Reiserfs +IBM HD's = hair loss

      --
      The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive
    3. Re:Speed means absolutely nothing by Etyenne · · Score: 2, Funny
      Reiser? I never had these problems with Reiser and still don't.

      Famous last word.

      --
      :wq
  18. Any chance of including NTFS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It would be nice to see an unbiased comparison with NTFS (though it would be difficult seeing as how you can't get it to run natively on *nix afaik)

    1. Re:Any chance of including NTFS? by Lxy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree, it would be an interesting test. If I'm not mistaken, NTFS is a journaling filesystem as well. Its databasing design is really interesting to me.. is there something similar to this in linux journaling filesystems?

      WinFS is designed to utilize the database feature, I'd be really curious about the results of searching for a file in NTFS/WinFS versus a linux file system. Hopefully NTFS linux support improves to the point where we can safely use it as a linux filesystem.

      Data recovery is my biggest issue right now with linux. It's damn near impossible to rescue data off a failed linux disk. Even just deleting a file is tough to recover from. NTFS has a nice selection of tools (albeit non-free) to safely and reliably recover data.

      --

      There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
      :wq
  19. ext3 slowness by ReignStorm · · Score: 5, Informative
    from Linux ext3 FAQ
    Q: How can I recover (undelete) deleted files from my ext3 partition?
    Actually, you can't! This is what one of the developers, Andreas Dilger, said about it: In order to ensure that ext3 can safely resume an unlink after a crash, it actually zeros out the block pointers in the inode, whereas ext2 just marks these blocks as unused in the block bitmaps and marks the inode as "deleted" and leaves the block pointers alone. Your only hope is to "grep" for parts of your files that have been deleted and hope for the best.
    1. Re:ext3 slowness by Speare · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I see this as a mild security benefit. If I delete something, I want it GONE. It's not as good as an idle-time thread that 11-pass nukes unallocated sectors at random, but it'll do for a start.

      --
      [ .sig file not found ]
  20. Re:Dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's slashdot's mob tactics again. Now Taco will call their ISP and ask them "Are you SURE you don't want our protection? Certainly protecting the servers you love is worth some...compensation." If they say no, another posting of this story as soon as the admins "forget" this one.

  21. It works for mine! by MarcQuadra · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been using ReiserFS _EXCLUSIVELY_ since about 2.4.11 and I've never had a single problem. It's important to format with the defaults and not specify 'special' arguments to mkreiserfs or you can run into trouble.

    I've got three systems currently running reiser on Gentoo, from my PowerPC/SCSI/NFS/Samba file/print server to the ancient Compaq laptop with a 4GB drive. I've never had as much as a hiccup from ReiserFS.

    Under what circumstances did you lose data?

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
    1. Re:It works for mine! by Erwos · · Score: 2, Informative

      "I've been using ReiserFS _EXCLUSIVELY_ since about 2.4.11 and I've never had a single problem. It's important to format with the defaults and not specify 'special' arguments to mkreiserfs or you can run into trouble."

      I've personally had several friends tell me of their data loss with ReiserFS. No one's arguing that it's a horrible file system, only that it still experimental.

      The typical data loss situation is a power loss in the middle of a write. ReiserFS might be atomic in operation, but it still can't dodge hardware failure at that level.

      I use ext3, and I've been happy. ReiserFS is definitely not an appropriate default partition type at this time.

      -Erwos

      --
      Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
    2. Re:It works for mine! by jcupitt65 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I've lost stuff with reiser too. About a year ago I was fiddling with an nvidia driver and locked my machine up. When I rebooted the tree that had had a compile going on had vanished forever.

      My understanding is that journalled means the FS can't get into an inconsistant state and so does not need fsck-ing. It does not mean your data is safe from having the power pulled halfway through a write. If you want a super-safe home area you want some sort of logging FS and these are all far slower than journalled (I think).

    3. Re:It works for mine! by Hatta · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm thinking of switching to something else. XFS chews too much CPU, JFS has been extremely unstable every time I've tried it (which I admit has been a while), ext3 is slow. Meh, that's why I've just stuck with Reiser. I like how fast it can delete huge directory trees and it generally performs very well except for the data loss thing.

      "Yeah, it's a great car. Purrs like a kitten, decent milage. It generally performs very well... except for the brakes."

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  22. So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3? by jaylee7877 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never understood why they don't move to ReiserFS, at least for new installations. With Fedora you have to use a kernel option to enable ReiserFS installation and with RHEL you can't install to a ReiserFS root, even the reiserfs kernel module is in their kernel-unsupported RPM which means don't call for help. I love RH but they need to get the ball rolling on this one!

  23. Defragmenting filesystem? by foolip · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What I'd like is a file system for which there is actually a defrag-tool. Sure, ext2/3 may try to reduce fragmentation as much as possible, but when it happens (as is likely when you have a near-full disk) you've got little or no way of fixing it. Or actually there is a defrag tool for ext2 (not ext3) but my experiences with it are not the best -- it took forever and I don't know that it actually did anything to the disk (fdisk didn't report a 0% fragmentation level afterwards anyway).

    1. Re:Defragmenting filesystem? by lord_dut · · Score: 3, Interesting
    2. Re:Defragmenting filesystem? by 13Echo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most people don't have their /home directory tied into their root partition. Often, they are even on seperate drives. Even if a defrag program were used, there would be very little benefit. You're not constantly writing new files in and out of the same space as the root partition in that respect.

      And even if someone does put their /home directory on the root partiton, the modern Linux filesystems practically negate the need for defragmentation, due to their designs (as well as OS and drive design).

    3. Re:Defragmenting filesystem? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The old-school trick is to back up the file system to tape, reformat the disk and do a restore.

      These days you could just use a second disk. It would be faster, too.

      I wonder if there's some way for a RAID to constantly, dynamically optimize itself. After all, it's striped and redundant, there must be all kinds of funky tricks you can play to reorganize data on the fly...

    4. Re:Defragmenting filesystem? by ztane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, not all of us have temp on root partition. Of course, certain OSes tend to force that...

    5. Re:Defragmenting filesystem? by 13Echo · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm sorry, but you can't make a statement like that and not back it up. How exactly is this the case? Even if it really is true, how can it hurt to have a defrag tool available? Is it really true that there is _NEVER_ instances where a Linux filesystem can be so fragmented as to negatively impact performance? Let's try to be logical, shall we?


      Why is it hard to understand that UNIX filesystems are designed to have minimal impact on performance due to their design?

      These are multiuser operating systems that are designed to make frequent requests from multiple users at any given time. Things *are* going to be strewn across the drive, but there is a reason that there is no noticable impact on performance.

      UNIX filesystems are engineered to avoid appending old files and scattering data about in the same manner that MSDOS and Windows FAT filesystems do. These filesystems don't fill every single free "crack" on the drive in the way that MSDOS filesystems do. FAT filesystems are designed to write into the first available location, or "hole", often spanning across several of these as well, for writing a single file. This is what causes the "fragmentation" on a Microsoft filesystem. The clustering algorithms that UNIX/Linux machines use use help to prevent "fragmentation", by which Windows users expererience.

      Bear in mind that FAT/FAT32 was based off of a design that was optimized for writing small amounts of data to *floppy disks* and small capacity drives with very limited amounts of space. Later in the life of DOS and Windows, the "fragmentation" issues became terrible, typically as drive capacities got to be larger and filesizes increased by a great degree. NTFS resolves many of these issues, but still carries a few of the FAT traits in spite of it being a totally different filesystem (based off of HPFS). Potentially, it still writes to tiny, empty, blocks of free space, but its tree-based structure doesn't limit the performance due to "fragmentation" like we experienced on DOS/Win9x. However, I think that the biggest problem on Windows machines is the way drives are typically partitioned, more than anything else. Things get removed and installed frequently, to the same locations of the drive, with user-created data overlapping the locations of important system and swapfiles. NTFS, in most respects, doesn't actually need defrag. In fact, when I ran Windows 2000 for a few years, defrag provided almost no improvement, at least not to the same degree as it did on Windows 98. You can defrag all you like, but it's unlikely that even an NTFS partition will experience more than 3-5% total fragmention.

      I hope that is "logical enough" for you. I think that, perhaps, you need to ditch the old DOS/Windows "I MUST DEFRAG" mentality in order to really understand this. Filesystems (especially journalling types) have greatly changed since the days of DOS.
  24. FAT is becoming very harmful by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 3, Funny

    on a global scale FAT is becoming the top health problem.

  25. Mirror (be kind) by Helmholtz · · Score: 4, Informative
    --
    RFC2119
  26. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by Syberghost · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've never understood why they don't move to ReiserFS, at least for new installations.

    Because for most uses, it's not the best option. So, if you're going to junk ext2 compatibility, why would you go to Reiser?

  27. What about SoftUpdates? by mi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From FreeBSD, that is... Would be nice to see that compared to Linux' FS-es. As in this earlier benchmark (PDF).

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:What about SoftUpdates? by Brandybuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except that Softupdates isn't a journaling filesystem. Linux users have been brainwashed into believing that they need journaling.

      For more info on softupdates versus journalling, see Soft Updates and Journaling versus Soft Updates.

      --
      Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  28. Almost Full Article Text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...making Linux just a little more fun!

    Benchmarking Filesystems
    By Justin Piszcz

    INTRO
    I recently purchased a Western Digital 250GB/8M/7200RPM drive and wondered which journaling file system I should use. I currently use ext2 on my other, smaller hard drives. Upon reboot or unclean shutdown, e2fsck takes a while on drives only 40 and 60 gigabytes. Therefore I knew using a journaling file system would be my best bet. The question is: which is the best? In order to determine this I used common operations that Linux users may perform on a regular basis instead of using benchmark tools such as Bonnie or Iozone. I wanted a "real life" benchmark analysis. A quick analogy: Just because the Ethernet-Over-Power-Lines may advertise 10mbps (1.25MB/s), in real world tests, peak speed is only 5mbps (625KB/s). This is why I chose to run my own tests versus using hard drive benchmarking tools.
    SPECIFICATIONS
    HARDWARE
    COMPUTER: Dell Optiplex GX1
    CPU: Pentium III 500MHZ
    RAM: 768MB
    SWAP: 1536MB
    CONTROLLER: Promise ATA/100 TX - BIOS 14 - IN PCI SLOT #1
    DRIVES USED: 1. Western Digital 250GB ATA/100 8MB CACHE 7200RPM
    2. Maxtor 61.4GB ATA/66 2MB CACHE 5400RPM
    DRIVE TESTED: The Western Digital 250GB.

    SOFTWARE
    LIBC VERSION: 2.3.2
    KERNEL: linux-2.4.26
    COMPILER USED: gcc-3.3.3
    EXT2: e2fsprogs-1.35/sbin/mkfs.ext2
    EXT3: e2fsprogs-1.35/sbin/mkfs.ext3
    JFS: jfsutils-1.1.5/sbin/mkfs.jfs
    REISERFS: reiserfsprogs-3.6.14/sbin/mkreiserfs
    XFS: xfsprogs-2.5.6/sbin/mkfs.xfs

    TESTS PERFORMED
    001. Create 10,000 files with touch in a directory.
    002. Run 'find' on that directory.
    003. Remove the directory.
    004. Create 10,000 directories with mkdir in a directory.
    005. Run 'find' on that directory.
    006. Remove the directory containing the 10,000 directories.
    007. Copy kernel tarball from other disk to test disk.
    008. Copy kernel tarball from test disk to other disk.
    009. Untar kernel tarball on the same disk.
    010. Tar kernel tarball on the same disk.
    011. Remove kernel source tree.
    012. Copy kernel tarball 10 times.
    013. Create 1GB file from /dev/zero.
    014. Copy the 1GB file on the same disk.
    015. Split a 10MB file into 1000 byte pieces.
    016. Split a 10MB file into 1024 byte pieces.
    017. Split a 10MB file into 2048 byte pieces.
    018. Split a 10MB file into 4096 byte pieces.
    019. Split a 10MB file into 8192 byte pieces.
    020. Copy kernel source tree on the same disk.
    021. Cat a 1GB file to /dev/null.

    NOTE1: Between each test run, a 'sync' and 10 second sleep were performed.
    NOTE2: Each file system was tested on a cleanly made file System.
    NOTE3: All file systems were created using default options.
    NOTE4: All tests were performed with the cron daemon killed and with 1 user logged in.
    NOTE5: All tests were run 3 times and the average was taken, if any tests were questionable, they were re-run and checked with the previous average for consistency.

    CREATING THE FILESYSTEMS

    (snipped. too many junk characters0

    BENCHMARK SET 1 OF 4

    In the first test, ReiserFS takes the lead, possibly due to its balanced B-Trees. (If the images are hard to read on your screen, here's a tarball containing larger versions of them.)

    All of the files systems faired fairly well when finding 10,000 files in a single directory, the only exception being XFS which took twice as long.

    Both ext versions 2 and 3 seem to reap the benefits of removing large numbers of files faster than any other file system tested.

    To make sure this graph was accurate; I re-benchmarked the ext2 file system again and got nearly the same results. I was surprised to find how much of a performance hit both ext2 and ext3 take during this test.

    Finding 10,000 files seemed to be the same except for XFS; however directories are definitely handled dif

    1. Re:Almost Full Article Text by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All of the files systems faired fairly well when finding 10,000 files in a single directory, the only exception being XFS which took twice as long.

      I'm surprised that XFS did so poorly here. I do know they had a bug one point in time, which may reflect such a score, however, I thought it had long been addressed. Worse, I thought I remembered reading that XFS used a btree to track file and directory names. Please correct as needed. If this is true, it would appear to be a bug rather than normal performance. Any XFS experts care to fill in the blanks here?

      I should also offer than XFS's big claims are stability, reliability, big and huge file support, speed when accessing big and huge files, and excellent concurrent file access abilities, which is why SCSI is the preferred media for XFS. Basically, if you plan on managing big and huge files or medium to huge files with large amounts of concurrent activity via SCSI, then XFS should be one of your target FS.

      Then, you have excellent snapshot, backup and recovery utilities as well as quota and realtime access support. All of which, make XFS an excellent journalled FS.

  29. Purpose of Journalling by MarcQuadra · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What was the reason for the panic? I've been running my system HARD for years without any panics.

    If your hardware or kernel has problems you can hardly blame a filesystem that's expressly designed for high-reliability hardware for data loss.

    'journalling' is not any better than none when it comes to flaky hardware or a badly compiled kernel. All it means is that you don't have to wait an hour for fsck to run. The whole point of a journalling FS is that it 'knows' what files are suspect after a major outage and it quarantines them, it's not any better at preventing them from being corrupted.

    All in all, I can say that Linux an other Unices are VERY sensitive to improper halts/panics/shutdowns. I've hosed several OS X machines by not exiting gracefully, and several Linux boxes too. Your number-one priority when setting up a system is to do what it takes to keep it from crashing, ever.

    When I built my desktop I carefully selected components that were 100% Linux-compatible so I wouldn't have issues like the ones you described.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  30. XFS, solid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have been using XFS on a Laptop for 2+ years who's hardware was bleeding edge at the time of purchace.

    Because of hardware/configuration issues, I have had to hard-reboot the laptop countless times during the months that hardware support in the kernel caught up. (It works pretty well now).

    I have never borked my filesystem.

  31. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by vorwerk · · Score: 3, Informative

    Redhat 9 and Fedora Core 1 both ship with JFS support -- the graphical installer, however, does not offer it as an option.

    So, what I usually do when installing a new copy of Fedora or Redhat is to drop to a console, and use fdisk + mkfs.jfs manually. Then, when I get to the right page in the installer, I can simply set it to not reformat the partition but to use it as the "/" mount point, and voila -- my computer has JFS.

  32. Re:Bad graphs by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    When you see bar graphs with two items its just plain silly.

    Hey, he's management material! Quick promote him!

    --
    -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
  33. ext3 options by kardar · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are options, or settings, that you can do for ext3, the default is slower, but it saves your data. Ext3 not only journals metadata, like XFS, etc... but it also journals data, which is the only filesystem that does that, if I understand this correctly.

    "data=writeback" mode does no data journaling, only metadata journaling, and you would probably see better performance here. Although, you could lose data in the event of a power outage (no fun). Same thing applies to XFS, JFS - you could lose data because only metadata is being journaled, not real data.

    "data=ordered" mode - inbetween, still no data journalling, but there are provisions that make it less likely to lose data in the case of a power problem. It has something to do with the way it journals the metadata and the way the filesystem interacts with the disk that makes is a little slower than data=writeback but also a little more secure than data=writeback if you get a power outage.

    "data=journal" mode - this journals data and metadata, and with the exception of a few situations, is the slowest. The least likely to lose your data, but also much slower.

    I am assuming, or at least it looks like, these tests were run with the default data=journal - so to be fair, they should have been run in data=writeback, or maybe even all three modes. Again, all you have to is specify in /etc/fstab and reboot, no big deal.

    It would probably be better to compare the ext3 in data=writeback mode.

    1. Re:ext3 options by CmdrTHAC0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "I am assuming, or at least it looks like, these tests were run with the default data=journal - so to be fair, they should have been run in data=writeback, or maybe even all three modes. Again, all you have to is specify in /etc/fstab and reboot, no big deal."

      And where do you get the idea that this is the default? According to mount(8):

      ordered
      This is the default mode.

      What I really would have liked to see on this benchmark is ext3 on 2.6 with dir_index enabled. (Maybe this would also gain the benefit of the Orlov allocator? I haven't been paying attention to what's been backported.) ...In fact, I would have liked to see this whole thing on 2.6.

      --
      __CmdrTHAC0__
      In Soviet Russia, Spanish Inquisition doesn't expect YOU!!
  34. HFS+ by mbbac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone have any statistics for how HFS+ (testable with Darwin stacks up against these other filesystems?

    --

    mbbac

  35. Re:name a "major browser" that won't support PNG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Lynx.

    It doesn't support GIF either though.

  36. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by 13Echo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I use ReiserFS, because on average - it is a faster filesystem than EXT3 for most desktop purposes. I personally feel that EXT3, however, is a more reliable FS when it comes to recovering bad data on the hard disks. I recently had some failures due to a failing motherboard, which corrupted some data on my drive, but the reiserfsk tools have cryptic descriptions for failures and don't always seem to do the job right when it comes to recovering bad data. I've had reiserfsck work properly, but the few times that I have had hard drive failures, I've had little success in recovering bad data on a ReiserFS partition.

    I must admit though, that any problems I've had on a ReiserFS system weren't necessarily the fault of the filesystem (instead were related to failing hardware). I've run several machines, with multiple drives, which all use ReiserFS. It's been quite reliable in that sense.

    I guess that the only way you're going to get true reliability is to make redundant backups.

  37. I'm rarely surprised... by Gribflex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is it that every benchmarking article contains the words "The results may surprise you?"

    Have any of you ever been surprised?

  38. Re:Bad graphs by MrBlue+VT · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Arg, he also needs to just pick one color for each filesystem. I mean, he must want to torture his audience by constantly switching the colors and then making the legend so tiny and mucked up by JPEG artifacts, that one can't tell which bar goes to which filesystem.

  39. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by flaming-opus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Well, the simplest answer is that Stephen Tweedie is their filesystem guru, so why not use his baby in their OS. However, that's not the real answer. SCT is a clever guy, and mature enough to not let pride get in the way of the best possible system. (a similar question: Why does sun still use UFS?) For Redhat, EXT3 is probably the best general purpose filesystem, particularly for the root drive. Redhat is interested in selling on servers, where the root filesystem is not the bottleneck. You install the OS onto EXT3, which has decent performance and is very mature. Then you install your database / exported directories / mail spool / whatever onto the filesystem that is best for that job.

    Ext3 is a very close cousin to Ext2, which has been around for a very long time, and changes very slowly. Reiser has grown and changed a LOT in the last three years, including some metadata changes that effect on-disk structures. Though it has stabalized lately, Redhat is correct to be cautious. XFS and JFS, though very mature filesystems on other OSes, have only recently become tightly integrated with the Linux kernel. Though technically controlled by the linux kernel community, all three of these other filesystems are really controlled by little cabals of people within IBM/SGI/ and then Hans Reiser. While these groups try to be transparent in their development process, Ext3 is very transparent in its development and direction.

    One other tremendous advantage that Ext3 inherits from Ext2 is a fast, versatile, and effective fsck program. Journals are great in the event of power failures. However, they do not protect against Windows, or a faulty fibre channel driver, or uninformed sysadmin who accidently writes over the first 1 MB of the disk. Fsck.Ext2 is one of the best around.

  40. One word - inertia by Jeppe+Salvesen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know - if it works, don't fix it!

    Ext3 is stable and there's a lot of useful available tools for it.

    If, for the end user, the difference is marginal, why bother to make things more difficult than necessary for yourself?

    Or maybe they've received unusually many bug reports for ReiserFS and thus concluded it's not stable enough for them to push it. After all, they want to be associated with (amongst other things) reliability.

    --

    Stop the brainwash

  41. Incoming ext jokes... by Valkyre · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Both ext versions 2 and 3 seem to reap the benefits of removing large numbers of files faster than any other file system tested." If that's not a joke, it should be.

    --
    What the heck is a 'sig'?
  42. I did some too by Rufus211 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I did a bunch of tests like this, but in 2.6 instead of 2.4. My conclusions:

    * Ext2 is still overall the fastest but I think the margin is small enough that a journal is well worth it
    * Ext3, ReiserFS, and XFS all perform similarly and almost up to ext2 except:
    o XFS takes an abnormally long time to do a large rm even though it is very fast at a kernel `make clean`
    o ReiserFS is significantly slower at the second make (from ccache)
    * JFS is fairly slow overall
    * Reiser4 is exceptionally fast at synthetic benchmarks like copying the system and untaring, but is very slow at the real-world debootstrap and kernel compiles.
    * Though I didn't benchmark it, ReiserFS sometimes takes a second or two to mount and Reiser4 sometimes takes a second or two to unmount while all other filesystem's are instantaneous.

    Whole thing available here

  43. These test need to be run on more machines by Cthefuture · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, all the time we see benchmarks like this that are just done on the same machine with the same setup. Who knows if there is some unseen problem or bottleneck (in this particular case the CPU is weak).

    We need a large sample base. Different types of chipsets, CPU's, hard-drives, etc. Then we can better see the big picture or at least see how the filesystems might perform on a system similar to your own.

    So I'm calling for a "filesystem benchmark" page were people can post their results from a standard set of benchmarks. Something where they can include their system specs/setup and everything.

    Then maybe we'll get useful information.

    --
    The ratio of people to cake is too big
  44. Re:Results questionable by AGTiny · · Score: 3, Informative

    ext3 does NOT journal data by default, it only "orders" it (data=ordered). This is still better than what any of the other filesystems do. You have to explicity define data=journal in fstab to get full data journaling. There is a performance hit but it's what I use on all my RAID5 data filesystems and it's great. I used to use reiserfs until a huge crash corrupted massive amounts of files and directories. I don't think I'll be going without data journaling protection for a while.

  45. 2nd Opinion... by mikegi · · Score: 2, Informative
    At http://fsbench.netnation.com/ you'll find a nice python tool that will run Bonnie and/or IOzone with different parameters and stick the results in a MySQL database and make nice little tables from the data.

    There is also some commentary and recommendations based on their results.

    One more note about the tool... it's not well documented but works well when configured... note that you need a kernel that supports the filesystems to be tested (duh!), Use python 2.2, the database schema is somewhere in the comments.

  46. It'd be better under 2.6 by diegocgteleline.es · · Score: 2, Redundant

    He benchmarked 2.4, which these days is a bit...pointless. Ext3 has a lot of improvements only in 2.6, just like the other FSs. 2.4 filesystems are in "mainteinance mode" where in 2.6 there's been a large amount of development. If he'd run 2.6 he could benchmark reiser4 too.

  47. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by jargoone · · Score: 3, Informative

    So, what I usually do when installing a new copy of Fedora or Redhat is to drop to a console, and use fdisk + mkfs.jfs manually

    You're making things unnecessarily complicated. At the "boot:" prompt, just type "linux jfs". The graphical installer will then offer it as an option. Works with reiserfs, too.

  48. They really should have benchmarked V4 not just V3 by hansreiser · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ReiserFS V3 is being obsoleted by V4, which is 2-5x times faster.

    You can see benchmarks of it at www.namesys.com/benchmarks.html

  49. EXT3 and *BIG* filesystems by ArkiMage · · Score: 2, Informative

    I no longer will even attempt to use EXT3 for a filesystem ~500GB or larger. Had problems repeatedly with a couple of 1.6TB filesystems and switched to Reiser3 and haven't looked back...

    # df -k
    Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
    /dev/sda6 4032092 548856 3278412 15% /
    /dev/sda1 505605 19171 460330 4% /boot
    /dev/sda7 41729164 31165820 8443572 79% /data
    none 2000568 0 2000568 0% /dev/shm
    /dev/sda3 10080520 6437952 3130500 68% /usr
    /dev/sda2 80636072 45306536 31233364 60% /var
    /dev/sdb1 1600772128 1462009904 138762224 92% /raid1
    /dev/sdc1 1600772128 760247416 840524712 48% /raid2

    PS. No, it's not pr0n

  50. PARENT NOT INFORMATIVE by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Funny

    oh no, all those people running IE 3 can't see png, better not use it.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  51. "worst chartmaking...ever" by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 2, Informative

    Gah! The charts are shrunk so that the labels are hard to read, and the order of the results and color assigned to each FS seems to have been picked randomly for each chart, so once you squint and decipher one of them...you have to start over on the next.

  52. Unrealistic testing environment. by sudog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A superior string of tests would be to simulate, to as close a degree as possible, a real, live high-use environment such as a scaled-up Perforce server, a supremely busy mail server, a giant busy database, or a massive web server.

    A single process running through 10,000 files isn't particularly realistic: since when does a scaled-up server sit there and hammer the filesystem with just a single process? What about contention? Caching?

    And what about recovery from errors? I didn't once see what happens if something blorts over random parts of the filesystems.. how does Reiser handle this? Ext3? XFS? Are there recovery tools in case of catastrophe?

    What about these file systems stuffed into RAID volumes of various stripe sizes and configurations?

    Straight deletes, creates, or modifications are useless because the only time you're going to be doing something like that is when you rm -rf * or building a new environment for.. something. Daily use, however, which eats up far more time (and thus would save the most user time if improved) is something which should been better accounted-for.

  53. More info needed for choosing wisely by WoodstockJeff · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Having read the article, it would have been nice if the bar graphs had been consistent... but, that's not the problem. As mentioned by others, a very large criteria for non-home users is damage tolerance, and, to an equal extent, the lack of any tendency for the driver to damage the file system (aka "stability"). And, in this day of databases, the ability to handle large files is increasingly important.

    I'm rapidly approaching the point where I need support for file sizes greater than 2GB. Quite frankly, most of what I've found about file sizes and file systems is 2 to 4 years old... Everyone's too concerned with speed!

  54. different benchmarks needed by aggieben · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd like to see a set of benchmarks regarding stability and fidelity of the various filesystems. Which ones are the most durable? Which ones get corruption the most, and what are their corruption/data-loss ratios? Performance isn't the end of the world for me....but losing data *is*.

    --
    Don't become a regular here, you will become retarded. -- Yoda the Retard
  55. Re:Dupe by revery · · Score: 2, Funny

    This is a post to remove the effects of my moderation to this comment. When I first moderated, earlier this morning, this comment's parent post was ranked at +4 informative and an earlier post (by 1 minute) was ranked as redundant. I moderated the earlier one up (which was fine) and this one down as Redundant (which was not fine as it violated my rule about moderating someone as redundant for a post within 5-10 minutes of the original)

    Anyway, this is all part of me being anal about little things like this.

    --

    Was it the sheep climbing onto the altar, or the cattle lowing to be slain,
    or the Son of God hanging dead and bloodied on a cross that told me this was a world condemned, but loved and bought with blood.

  56. jackass article by jusdisgi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow...I'm really surprised that I don't see anyone else around here bashing this "benchmarking" as totally ridiculous. Get it together, people! I mean, how does a group of folks that typically pride themselves on shredding the foolish articles that come by miss these beauties:

    1) This guy goes out with the stated goal of evaluating real-world performance...so he starts by throwing out all real benchmarks. Of course, those tools are designed by experts to try to represent real-world performance, but who cares, right? Instead, our jackass throws together a bundle of random operations and times them. No thought is apparent in the choices of the operations, and no discussion is given as to why the choices were made.

    2) The conclusions are drawn by simply adding the times of all the tests together. If you haven't figured out why this is dumb as a rock, let me explain: test #1 took 23-40 seconds, while test #2 took .02-.04 seconds. So, in his conclusion, test #1 was weighted 1000 times as heavily as test #2. I don't know about you all, but I for one don't feel that touching speed is 1000 times as important as finding speed.

    3) Even if he had normalized all the times so that the mean in each test was the same and then added those, he would still be wrong...various tests ought to be weighed differently, because real-world usage doesn't do all of these things the same amount. That said, the weight given to the tests needs to be well thought out and planned, rather than arbitrarily assigned (accidentally) without paying any attention. Interestingly enough, this sort of purposeful weighing of tests is exactly the sort of thing done by the real benchmarking tools that this idiot threw away.

    4) Perhaps this one isn't as important...but this guy can't make a graph to save his life. Half the bar graphs put time on X and the other half put time on Y. Graphs that obviously should be bar graphs are made into dot-line ones. The text is blurry and you can't tell the colors in the key.

    Anyway, I still don't get why everybody around here seems to have missed all this...it was painfully obvious to me when I just took a cursory glance at it.

    --
    Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
  57. Re:What about HFS + by idiotnot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ugh. HFS+ is not a Unix filesystem. It's a Macintosh filesystem, introduced in OS8, that's been modified so it can play nice with a Unix-like OS. Darwin/OSX also use old, slow, reliable Berkeley FFS, the filesystem on which ext2 was patterned. HFS+ isn't an ideal Unix filesystem, because it doesn't have case-sensitivity by default, and it has features that would be wasted by typical Unix. The reasons it's there in OSX are backward compatibility and speed. Some carbon applications refuse to run on an FFS partition, and OS8/9 can't read FFS. The FFS code in Darwin is also very old now (most of it is late 80's tech), and the performance shows. The nifty things that the real BSD's have done to speed it up (soft dependencies, etc.) haven't found their way into the weird mach almalgam that is XNU.

    Write support of HFS+ works under GNU/Linux.

  58. Re:EXT3? Lots of files changing? Increase your ... by NerveGas · · Score: 2, Interesting


    My mail server's been chugging along for about 4 years now, and is terrifically reliable. So, I turned off the fsync() calls, so things like that don't really matter any more, as the kernel's disk cache can do what it was designed to do. Throughput went up by more than a factor of ten.

    Some day, a fan, power supply, or UPS will die. But getting 10x the performance for 4+ years justifies losing the two minutes worth of email that wasn't flushed to disk when that day comes.

    steve

    --
    Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
  59. large file support by David+Jao · · Score: 3, Informative
    I'm rapidly approaching the point where I need support for file sizes greater than 2GB. Quite frankly, most of what I've found about file sizes and file systems is 2 to 4 years old... Everyone's too concerned with speed!

    Here's some real world information on the state of large file support in 2004. Filesystem driver support is the least of your worries -- almost any linux filesystem you can think of (except for maybe umsdos) supports over 2GB files at the kernel level. The Linux LFS page, dated April 2004, contains reasonably updated information on large file support in linux.

    The bigger problem is that many userspace applications cannot yet read or write to the large files. This failure arises from non-use of the LFS API combined with just plain unfortunate use of a signed 32-bit int in the wrong place. So for instance mkisofs will reject all input files larger than 2GB in size, and cdrdao will simply abort at 2GB if you try to rip a DVD larger than 2GB in size. In some extreme cases there are programs that can't even handle large files off of the disk; one example is

    wget http://mirror.linux.duke.edu/pub/fedora/linux/core /test/1.92/i386/iso/FC2-test3-i386-DVD.iso

    which fails spectacularly on any x86 linux system (hint: the DVD is not really 84MB in size). In general, the "core" system utilities such as dd, cp, mv, cat are fully compatible with large files whereas third party applications are much more hit-or-miss.

    Even today, by far the most practical solution to large file woes is to migrate to a 64-bit system, the most affordable of which is AMD64 by a long shot. I've been using an Athlon 64 system for the past few weeks and it has handled large files perfectly in all respects so far.

  60. Re:So why does RedHat/Fedora continue to push EXT3 by Empty+Threats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sun uses UFS because it is still the best filesystem for a root filesystem.

    • It supports software mirroring of the root FS in solaris.
    • It's backwards and forwards compatible.
    • It does not require any license fees, since it's been worked on in-house.
    • It already supports logging, which provides the benefits of journalling and a substantial performance boost.
    • UFS also has alternate superblocks, like all modern filesystems. (Including JFS and XFS!)

    A more interesting question is: Why do Linux zealots incessantly rag on UFS?

  61. But where are the other 'important tests' like.... by haute_sauce · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...time to fsck, and recovery after a crash for the journaled file systems ? These are of greater importance to me than 10000 deletes. How long will it take to verify my file system of 300GB after the sysadmin killed power to the wrong server ? Did I lose any data ? you know the drill.

  62. Re:They really should have benchmarked V4 not just by sakyamuni · · Score: 2, Insightful
    They really should have benchmarked V4 not just V3

    With all due respect, as your website states:

    Reiser4 is in final testing, and will ship soon!
    and (on the download page):
    do not use reiser4 for production system, do not keep any important data on reiser4. It is experimental yet.

    I would say benchmarks need to be performed with released products. It doesn't help most users if Vendor X claims his vaporware beats all competitors. Now, I know this isn't the case with ReiserFS here -- it isn't vaporware -- but it isn't production-ready either according to Namesys. You're just unfortunate in that this benchmark was performed just before the release of your next version which would have performed better.

    On the other hand, any benchmarks published on the Web ought to be updated whenever a new version of a tested product is released -- add the results of the new version and keep the old one as well, for comparison purposes.

  63. Datapoints contrary to yours... by bani · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just some datapoints to counter yours:

    We (ISP) had about 5 major data loss disasters with ext3, 3 with XFS and only 1 with reiserfs.

    And we use far more reiserfs than ext3 or xfs. So from a reliability standpoint for us, reiserfs is by far more reliable than ext3 or xfs.

  64. JFS by oohp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Although less hyped, JFS is doing pretty well so I see. I've been checking out other benchmarks as well. Some people mentioned it's even faster than XFS in some cases. I myself am using Reiser but I'm looking forward to checking out JFS in the future. It's been in the kernel long enough to have stabilized. XFS in kind of young in 2.4. Yes it has exsited before as a patch but I won't use anything on production systems until Linus accepts it in the mainstream kernel.

  65. not a real-world test by jean-guy69 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    because no mount options where used.
    if you really matter about filesytem performance you'll use some options like disabling access time updating.

    ext2 should be mounted with noatime, reiserfs with noatime,notail,nodiratime etc..

    not using the usual performance-oriented mount options (only the ones that don't compromise FS security)
    makes this benchmark a lot less meaningful :(