GTA San Andreas Gets Release Date, Screenshots

An anonymous reader writes "Rockstar Games has been deliberately coy about Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas - it 'was announced as a Playstation 2 exclusive title' in today's Sony press conference, but 'that was the extent to which the game was discussed.' However, Rockstar just put up an official GTA: San Andreas webpage, confirming a release date of October 2004, and featuring the first three screenshots of the game, leading GameSpot to conclude that the game 'will be set in modern times (not the 1970s-set game some had said) and will have a heavy West-Coast gangsta flava' - they also say the site's splash screen 'changes each time the site is loaded'."

Comments

SCO: The GNAA-Nigerian connection

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am Mr. Darl McBride currently serving as the president and chief executive
officer of the SCO Group, formerly known as Caldera Systems International, in
Lindon, Utah, United States of America. I know this letter might surprise you
because we have had no previous communications or business dealings before now.

My associates have recently made claim to computer softwares worth an estimated
$1 billion U.S. dollars. I am writing to you in confidence because we urgently
require your assistance to obtain these funds.

In the early 1970s the American Telephone and Telegraph corporation developed
at great expense the computer operating system software known as UNIX.
Unfortunately the laws of my country prohibited them from selling these
softwares and so their valuable source codes remained privately held. Under a
special arrangement some programmers from the California University of Berkeley
did add more codes to this operating system, increasing its value, but not in
any way to dilute or disparage our full and rightful ownership of these codes,
despite any agreement between American Telephone and Telegraph and the
California University of Berkeley, which agreement we deny and disavow.

In the year 1984 a change of regime in my country allowed the American
Telephone and Telegraph corporation to make profits from these softwares. In
the year 1990 ownership of these softwares was transferred to the corporation
UNIX System Laboratories. In the year 1993 this corporation was sold to the
corporation Novell. In the year 1994 some employees of Novell formed the
corporation Caldera Systems International, which began to distribute an upstart
operating system known as Linux. In the year 1995 Novell sold the UNIX software
codes to SCO. In the year 2001 occurred a separation of SCO, and the SCO brand
name and UNIX codes were acquired by the Caldera Systems International, and in
the following year the Caldera Systems International was renamed SCO Group, of
which i currently serve as chief executive officer.

My associates and I of the SCO Group are therefore the full and rightful owners
of the operating system softwares known as UNIX. Our engineers have discovered
that no fewer than seventy (70) lines of our valuable and proprietary source
codes have appeared in the upstart operating system Linux. As you can plainly
see, this gives us a claim on the millions of lines of valuable software codes
which comprise this Linux and which has been sold at great profit to very many
business enterprises. Our legal experts have advised us that our contribution
to these codes is worth an estimated one (1) billion U.S. dollars.

Unfortunately we are having difficulty extracting our funds from these computer
softwares. To this effect i have been given the mandate by my colleagues to
contact you and ask for your assistance. We are prepared to sell you a share in
this enterprise, which will soon be very profitable, that will grant you the
rights to use these valuable softwares in your business enterprise.
Unfortunately we are not able at this time to set a price on these rights.
Therefore it is our respectful suggestion, that you may be immediately a party
to this enterprise, before others accept these lucrative terms, that you send
us the number of a banking account where we can withdraw funds of a suitable
amount to guarantee your participation in this enterprise. As an alternative
you may send us the number and expiration date of your major credit card, or
you may send to us a signed check from your banking account payable to "SCO
Group" and with the amount left blank for us to conveniently supply.

Kindly treat this request as very important and strictly confidential. I
honestly assure you that this transaction is 100% legal and risk-free.

Signed, GNAA president

About SCO
The SCO Gr

SCO: The GNAA-Nigerian connection

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am Mr. Darl McBride currently serving as the president and chief executive
officer of the SCO Group, formerly known as Caldera Systems International, in
Lindon, Utah, United States of America. I know this letter might surprise you
because we have had no previous communications or business dealings before now.

My associates have recently made claim to computer softwares worth an estimated
$1 billion U.S. dollars. I am writing to you in confidence because we urgently
require your assistance to obtain these funds.

In the early 1970s the American Telephone and Telegraph corporation developed
at great expense the computer operating system software known as UNIX.
Unfortunately the laws of my country prohibited them from selling these
softwares and so their valuable source codes remained privately held. Under a
special arrangement some programmers from the California University of Berkeley
did add more codes to this operating system, increasing its value, but not in
any way to dilute or disparage our full and rightful ownership of these codes,
despite any agreement between American Telephone and Telegraph and the
California University of Berkeley, which agreement we deny and disavow.

In the year 1984 a change of regime in my country allowed the American
Telephone and Telegraph corporation to make profits from these softwares. In
the year 1990 ownership of these softwares was transferred to the corporation
UNIX System Laboratories. In the year 1993 this corporation was sold to the
corporation Novell. In the year 1994 some employees of Novell formed the
corporation Caldera Systems International, which began to distribute an upstart
operating system known as Linux. In the year 1995 Novell sold the UNIX software
codes to SCO. In the year 2001 occurred a separation of SCO, and the SCO brand
name and UNIX codes were acquired by the Caldera Systems International, and in
the following year the Caldera Systems International was renamed SCO Group, of
which i currently serve as chief executive officer.

My associates and I of the SCO Group are therefore the full and rightful owners
of the operating system softwares known as UNIX. Our engineers have discovered
that no fewer than seventy (70) lines of our valuable and proprietary source
codes have appeared in the upstart operating system Linux. As you can plainly
see, this gives us a claim on the millions of lines of valuable software codes
which comprise this Linux and which has been sold at great profit to very many
business enterprises. Our legal experts have advised us that our contribution
to these codes is worth an estimated one (1) billion U.S. dollars.

Unfortunately we are having difficulty extracting our funds from these computer
softwares. To this effect i have been given the mandate by my colleagues to
contact you and ask for your assistance. We are prepared to sell you a share in
this enterprise, which will soon be very profitable, that will grant you the
rights to use these valuable softwares in your business enterprise.
Unfortunately we are not able at this time to set a price on these rights.
Therefore it is our respectful suggestion, that you may be immediately a party
to this enterprise, before others accept these lucrative terms, that you send
us the number of a banking account where we can withdraw funds of a suitable
amount to guarantee your participation in this enterprise. As an alternative
you may send us the number and expiration date of your major credit card, or
you may send to us a signed check from your banking account payable to "SCO
Group" and with the amount left blank for us to conveniently supply.

Kindly treat this request as very important and strictly confidential. I
honestly assure you that this

SCO: The GNAA-Nigerian connection

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am Mr. Darl McBride currently serving as the president and chief executive
officer of the SCO Group, formerly known as Caldera Systems International, in
Lindon, Utah, United States of America. I know this letter might surprise you
because we have had no previous communications or business dealings before now.

My associates have recently made claim to computer softwares worth an estimated
$1 billion U.S. dollars. I am writing to you in confidence because we urgently
require your assistance to obtain these funds.

In the early 1970s the American Telephone and Telegraph corporation developed
at great expense the computer operating system software known as UNIX.
Unfortunately the laws of my country prohibited them from selling these
softwares and so their valuable source codes remained privately held. Under a
special arrangement some programmers from the California University of Berkeley
did add more codes to this operating system, increasing its value, but not in
any way to dilute or disparage our full and rightful ownership of these codes,
despite any agreement between American Telephone and Telegraph and the
California University of Berkeley, which agreement we deny and disavow.

In the year 1984 a change of regime in my country allowed the American
Telephone and Telegraph corporation to make profits from these softwares. In
the year 1990 ownership of these softwares was transferred to the corporation
UNIX System Laboratories. In the year 1993 this corporation was sold to the
corporation Novell. In the year 1994 some employees of Novell formed the
corporation Caldera Systems International, which began to distribute an upstart
operating system known as Linux. In the year 1995 Novell sold the UNIX software
codes to SCO. In the year 2001 occurred a separation of SCO, and the SCO brand
name and UNIX codes were acquired by the Caldera Systems International, and in
the following year the Caldera Systems International was renamed SCO Group, of
which i currently serve as chief executive officer.

My associates and I of the SCO Group are therefore the full and rightful owners
of the operating system softwares known as UNIX. Our engineers have discovered
that no fewer than seventy (70) lines of our valuable and proprietary source
codes have appeared in the upstart operating system Linux. As you can plainly
see, this gives us a claim on the millions of lines of valuable software codes
which comprise this Linux and which has been sold at great profit to very many
business enterprises. Our legal experts have advised us that our contribution
to these codes is worth an estimated one (1) billion U.S. dollars.

Unfortunately we are having difficulty extracting our funds from these computer
softwares. To this effect i have been given the mandate by my colleagues to
contact you and ask for your assistance. We are prepared to sell you a share in
this enterprise, which will soon be very profitable, that will grant you the
rights to use these valuable softwares in your business enterprise.
Unfortunately we are not able at this time to set a price on these rights.
Therefore it is our respectful suggestion, that you may be immediately a party
to this enterprise, before others accept these lucrative terms, that you send
us the number of a banking account where we can withdraw funds of a suitable
amount to guarantee your participation in this enterprise. As an alternative
you may send us the number and expiration date of your major credit card, or
you may send to us a signed check from your banking account payable to "SCO
Group" and with the amount le

screenies

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah for bicycles! bike-jacking rules! The draw distance doesnt seem far though- but who cares it's a new GTA game.

Re:screenies

[fr0dicus]

Maybe that bit of the map isn't done yet? That was my thought, seeing as it's the same engine and it never used to have draw distance problems.

"West coast gangstas"

[MachDelta]

I hope its not ALL "west coast gangstas" style. One of the things I loved about San Andreas in the original game was working with the Triads. Now THOSE were some mean fuckers. I'd love to be out "bringing honour to my family" with RC bombs again! Muahahaha!!

(Next week on Slashdot: Young teen male in California builds bomb out of remote control toy: Take Two Entertainment sued over deaths. Again.)

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Anonymous Coward]

huh? i would think that asian gangs are considered part of the "west coast gangsta" style, just as latino gangs are. this is gta san andreas, after all.

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Nick Berg's Head]

I believe people who blame video games for violence should have their heads checked. Those who are violent and do stupid things do so because they are ALREADY predisposed towards violent behavior. If someone hates violence and you make them play GTA for a year straight, they're not going to suddenly enjoy being violent. More than likely, they'll quickly tire of the game or learn to play it in a way which is in accord with their beliefs. However, find a psychopath who enjoys violence and a game like GTA will only fuel their violent tendencies... in exactly the same way as seeing violence on CNN would.

However, games are an easy target. I don't see this as being any different from the religious people who blamed D&D for all of youth's problems back in the 1980's. It takes effort to find the root of a problem, and most people want an easy scapegoat that they can point to, perhaps ban, and make themselves feel better for it.

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[iMMersE]

That's exactly right. I mean, if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music ...

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Anonymous Coward]

How many fucking times is that stupid ass joke gonna get modded up?!

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Simon]

That's exactly right. I mean, if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music ...

True. I like rave parties too.

--
Simon

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[mahdi13]

I was hoping that they would do something simular to how they did the radio stations in Vice City. One of the best parts of GTA:VC is just grabbing a bike and cruise listening to the radio (and driving like a mad man!) I found the radio in GTA3 to be somewhat boring and not nearly as entertaining. From the sounds of it though, GTA:SA is going to probably have a sound track that sucks like in True Crime (I couldn't play that for more the 10 minutes before all the damn 'Gangsta Rap' got on my nerves!)

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Jeffool]

I'm one (of few?) who much preferred GTA3 to VC, and largely because of the radio. The whole '80s' thing was just a huge turn off for me and some others.

Conversely, I'm a fan of much rap, but just because they're going for the gangsta style doesn't mean that they won't have other stations for you and others. If I'm not mistaken the soundtrack for VC did alright so far as sales, and I'd expect a nice collection of various styles for this one too. Let's not forget that the early 90s were also the time of grunge and techno.

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[mahdi13]

I was hopeing that they would do the early '90s grunge thing for this =)

I though GTA:VC had a very good variety of stations which was excellent, GTA3 radio didn't seem quite the same...but of course in GTA3 it was all 'fake' stuff and GTA:VC used licensed music which I thought was great.

I think what REALLY made GTA:VC so great was it had a solid story and the main character you played had a personality (I hated in GTA3 how the guy just walked around and people offered him jobs without him ever saying a single word)
If GTA:SA has a good story and well developed charaters, I might be able to overlook an over abundance of rap =)

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Golias]

Not only is that an old joke, it doesn't work if you think for even a moment.

Pac Man was played by Gen-Xers. In other words, people who are currently working in cubicles and spending the weekends with their kids.

Raves are populated entirely by Gen-Y kiddies who have no idea what Pac Man is, let alone spent any real time playing it.

If you somehow tied Pac Man to listening to really crappy hair metal like Poison or LA Guns while drinking Old Milwaukee beer out of tupperware containers at 1990 college parties or playing Nintendo hockey in the dorms, then maybe, just maybe, you would have been on to something.

P.S. Pac Man didn't have repetitive electronic music, either. There were brief melodies during the little interstitial scenes, but the game itself was sound effects only.

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[iMMersE]

I mean, if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in dark rooms, eating magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music ...

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, that Pac-Man didn't affect us, or else Gen-Xers would in fact be doing all the things "Gen-Y kiddies" are doing.

I wasn't being to be funny, I was trying to be informative.

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Lord_Dweomer]

Although you apparently were never a real raver, as a real raver would never call them "rave parties". It's either "party" or "rave", not "rave party".

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[kubrick]

People were raving in 1987 (the year Ecstasy really hit the UK, the Manchester music scene got big, etc.). Don't know what they're doing now, but you'd you'd think they'd have the decency to call it something else...

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[Anonymous Coward]

you'd you'd think

Sorry, having a bit of a granddad moment, obviously :/

Re:"West coast gangstas"

[log0n]

old skool!

What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got some issues with gta3/gta:vc. Here are a few features I hope they have implemented in gta:sa.

1. Better traffic generation algorithms. Sometimes when a car leaves your field of vision only for a few fractions of a second it disappears. This might have something to do with the limited amount of RAM the PS2 has, but it can still be quite annoying. The amount of vehicles on the streets seems to be quite constant. It would be cool if there were some really bad traffic jams from time to time.
2. Better weapon selection. It can be frustrating to scroll through ten weapons before you get the one you want, especially if you're in combat.
3. Multiplayer. I don't think they're going to implement it, but mta-vc on the PC can be very entertaining, even though it's buggy as hell and rather pointless.

Of course a game like this can never be "perfect", but it would be nice if some of these issues were fixed.

Re:What should they improve on?

[obeythefist]

1) Yes, the game's poor traffic/vision/camera depth is caused by the poor capabilities of the console. It has everything to do with the limits of the consoles.

2) Scrolling is implemented because consoles don't have keyboards that allow you to quick-select particular weapons. GTA is an excellent example of converting the "right way" because the PC version is invariably better in all aspects than the console version of the game, and usually contains added functionality not available on a console. Maybe the keys will be more customisable on PC this time around.

3) Serious multiplayer hasn't been viable on consoles until very recently with X-Box live and so on. Even so, there's more work involved with online play than single play for games like this, so again we find that because the game is being developed for console, it isn't "all that it could be".

I'm personally apalled at the graphics. This is the third iteration of the GTA3 engine. Because of the console generation, game developers don't have any room to create the almost photorealistic environments you can see in a game like Far Cry. I'm not sure if this game will do well on PC when being matched up with DooM3 and Half-Life2 (both currently slated for summer).

Re:What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

GTA has *NEVER* been about graphics. I'm sorry that the graphics won't be up to snuff for you, however, that won't stop millions of people from playing hopefully the best game ever.

Best game ever? Of course. The open endedness is simply astounding. And Doom 3 and HL 2 aren't innovating ANYTHING but graphics. So I'll take gameplay innovation over graphical innovation, you troll.

Re:What should they improve on?

[onzfonz]

I think opinions of graphics are fairly subjective, but I think what rockstar is doing is following a good business model here. What they are doing is just staying with their franchise and creating neat little twists with it. By not revamping the graphics, they can concentrate on working more with getting the gameplay right and creating cooler scenarios. This way they can have a faster development cycle and make more money. I know that's not what it should be about, but for most companies, this is what they want to do. And I think for the most part, they should keep doing these types of iterations as long as people are buying the software.

IMO, I liked the fact that they took the 80's miami theme in the 2nd iteration of the series, I thought it was well played on their part, and the fact that I could ride around in a fast motorcycle and fly off of hidden ramps was very enjoyable for me at least. And doing the licensed 80's tracks for the radio stations? Brilliant. If they keep on adding in little quirks like this, I think they can keep going. For this generation of consoles I prefer that they keep working more on adding more varied gameplay elements to something that already has a fun formula and decent graphics to it.

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

1) The Xbox version improves the traffic situation somewhat, but I think it's all about relevance. The random cars you see are exactly that, just a bit of flotsam to spice up the gameplay with chases and races. Probably not worth wasting effort and CPU tracking every individual one.

2) GTA is still preferable on a joypad, it has too many instantly required moves at fingertips to make keyboard/mouse play fully worthwhile. The time taken to find the correct key outweighs any advantage in having unique keys. I find even on PC games I usually just scroll through weapons using the mouse wheel, as it's quicker.

3) Only because it hasn't been relevant. Console games are still very much single player or group oriented, cheap and cheerful throwaway fun that requires no significant investment on behalf of the consumer, so it naturally follows that console owners would be less likely to have broadband, which is an absolute requirement for proper multiplayer.

Console game manufacturers are in the business of providing good medium term fun for the single or group together, whereas PC game production is more focused on creating communities to maintain long-term interest in the titles of the company. Internet access is a given for the average PC gamer, but not so for the console player. Given the general dearth of exclusive quality titles on PC's, and the long long timespans between releases, this ability to maintain interest through expansion and online capabilities is far more important than providing decent single player action. This can easily be seen in id software titles for example.

Because of the royalties involved console games are written to tighter margins and it's unlikely that producers would allow time and money to be spent on an online multiplayer option that is not required to sell that game. This is of course now changing as Sony and Microsoft have determined that it's a promotable feature now that broadband penetration is high enough. The fact that Nintendo are sitting on the fence only proves the point.

I'm personally apalled at the graphics. This is the third iteration of the GTA3 engine. Because of the console generation, game developers don't have any room to create the almost photorealistic environments you can see in a game like Far Cry.

In my opinion, GTA is not even a particularly good example of a console being pushed to its limits graphically, so the relevance of comparing it to Far Cry (nice example of the only decent PC exclusive for months), Doom 3 and Half Life 2 is questionable. The latter two look impressive enough on the Xbox for me anyway. GTA is more about the quality of the environment, and the gameplay. Sure nicer graphics would top it off, but if they had to cut out any of the content to accomodate it (in terms of development time and deadlines) then I'll pass, thanks.

Re:What should they improve on?

[KDR_11k]

Multiplayer and online aren't the same, especially console games rely on splitscreen. Splitscreen might not be the best solution, but at least it doesn't cost extra.
However, after playing the first two GTAs multiplayer I've reached the conclusion that while open-endedness and huge levels are good for single player, multiplayer becomes boring pretty fast. You spend five minutes or more trying to get a car and drive to the other players, fight for ten seconds then need to get to the enemies again. While the fights themselves are pretty nice, eight players are way too few for a city of that size.

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

Multiplayer and online aren't the same, especially console games rely on splitscreen. Splitscreen might not be the best solution, but at least it doesn't cost extra.

Exactly, I was attempting to make the case against the lack of proliferation of online console targets.

As regards GTA multiplayer, I'm sure they could build appropriate missions based around multiplayer stuff, maybe even simply having normal missions happening concurrently, in a sort of mmorpg, or perhaps players teaming up as gangs to complete certain tasks, or defend turf. Given the sheer breadth of mission types available in the single player game I don't doubt that Rockstar could create some equally gripping multiplayer missions.

Re:What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Serious multiplayer hasn't been viable on consoles until very recently with X-Box live and so on."

You don't say? Hey, did you miss Pong? Super Mario Bros? Baseball on the NES? Super Tennis on the SNES?

Guess what, you're an idito. And you go ahead and be "personally apalled" about some fucking graphics in a game you idiot.

Re:What should they improve on?

[moonbender]

2) GTA is still preferable on a joypad, it has too many instantly required moves at fingertips to make keyboard/mouse play fully worthwhile. The time taken to find the correct key outweighs any advantage in having unique keys. I find even on PC games I usually just scroll through weapons using the mouse wheel, as it's quicker.

It might be, using the mouse wheel. It's not quicker if you use a button for scrolling. And anyway, I certainly don't need to take time to find the correct keys in most games, after a short time of adaptation (minutes), using the right is typically second nature. And most of the time, the problem doesn't even come up since the games offer reconfigurable keys on the rare occasion that they don't conform to the standards like WASD, R for reload and so on.

Apart from the fact that it's not analogue, which is required or at least preferable in some situations, the keyboard's a really good controller. Which would explain why none of the keyboard alternatives being released and reviewed every other month never seem to make much of an impact outside, perhabs, of certain bleeding edge gamer circle with too much monthly allowance.

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

It's only good for FPS, but that's OK because that's the only gametype that makes a dent on the PC anymore.

Re:What should they improve on?

[phrasebook]

The random cars you see are exactly that, just a bit of flotsam to spice up the gameplay with chases and races.

No no no. One of the best things about GTA is how real and immersive the environment feels, like you're a part of it. Having decent traffic without cars disappearing behind you would take that feeling up a notch.

GTA is still preferable on a joypad, it has too many instantly required moves at fingertips to make keyboard/mouse play fully worthwhile.

Silly. It doesn't take long to get used to the controls on a PC and set it up how you want it. I never had to fumble playing the game using kb and mouse. You didn't say you did either - just that you prefer 'joypad' (whatever the hell that is! 1970s...). Sounds like you're just favouring the consoles. And of couse, you can get any number of joypads for a PC.

Only because it hasn't been relevant.

Multiplayer not relevant? You're just making excuses for what the consoles haven't been able to do. After network multiplayer becomes ubiquitous on consoles I'm sure it will suddenly be more 'relevant' to you :-p

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

No no no. One of the best things about GTA is how real and immersive the environment feels, like you're a part of it. Having decent traffic without cars disappearing behind you would take that feeling up a notch.

They don't 'disappear' at all, they're just not tracked once they leave the screen.

Silly. It doesn't take long to get used to the controls on a PC and set it up how you want it.

I prefer analogue steering and walking , which is awkward on a keyboard/mouse. I'm not disputing that you can't use a joypad on a PC, but doing that negates the time saved for switching weapons because you have to reach to the key. It's just as quick to learn what order your weapons can be used in, which is hardly difficult, seeing as there are only about 6 slots.

Multiplayer not relevant? You're just making excuses for what the consoles haven't been able to do. After network multiplayer becomes ubiquitous on consoles I'm sure it will suddenly be more 'relevant' to you :-p

Of course they're capable, the opening floodgates proves that, and of course they would be nice features, but I meant from a marketing and cost point of view, which was that there was little cost case to provide such features because the infrastructure wasn't there and there would have been little difference in sales of the games if the features had been included. Please read and at least quote properly before you incorrectly interpret and dismiss my point.

Re:What should they improve on?

[moonbender]

Whatever. I think it's great for real-time strategy, turn-based strategy, thinker simulation games like SimCity as well as strategic sims like flight sims, role playing games and on and on. It's not much of a use as a primary or only control in any of these, but it's a great complement to the mouse. Or, to mimic you: It's not very good for racing and platform games, but that's OK because there's got to be something consoles are good at.

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

Flight yokes and pedals are best for flight simulators, and after that I'd then prefer an analogue pad over a keyboard/mouse anyway, a mouse isn't particularly authentic, which is half the point in simulation.

Driving simulators are best served with a wheel and pedals, but again I'd prefer analogue controls with physical centering, and analogue controls for gas and braking are also more desirable than the 'on' or 'off' of keyboard control. Neither is a good physical substitute for car controls.

For turn-based strategy it's fairly irrelevant. The only advantage in FPS is that it's more accurate to use a mouse quickly, but if timing is no longer of the essence then the advantage quickly drains away.

I must confess to never having played a real-time strategy game, but if it's a similar point and click interface to Sim City then yes, a mouse would be preferable.

I'm not really sure what else you're referring to by saying 'and on and on'. I can't really think of any genres that particularly suit a keyboard apart from old text-based adventures and MUDs ;-)

Obviously I'm biased but I just don't find having to use a desk convenient, or comfortable for game playing, and I'd certainly attribute many more game types to consoles than just 'racing and platform'. Third person shooters/action, beat 'em ups, sports sims (e.g. tennis, skateboarding, soccer), RPG, traditional shoot 'em ups, and just the original and plain wacky stuff like Rez, Super Monkey Ball, Pikmin, Panzer Dragoon, Amplitude.

I haven't used a PC for games for about a year now because the only genre which I personally found it to excel at was being eroded by some clever use of semi-auto aim with console FPS games which effectively level the playing field to make the controls as effortless to use. It also has a nice side effect on realism; godlike accuracy and ridiculously fast aiming is now tempered somewhat.

Re:What should they improve on?

[angle_slam]

1) The random cars you see are exactly that, just a bit of flotsam to spice up the gameplay with chases and races. Probably not worth wasting effort and CPU tracking every individual one.

Maybe it's just because I'm a sociopath, but sometimes I want to chase a particular car. E.g., a car cuts me off or fights off the carjacking. That guy needs to pay. :-)

2) GTA is still preferable on a joypad, it has too many instantly required moves at fingertips to make keyboard/mouse play fully worthwhile. The time taken to find the correct key outweighs any advantage in having unique keys. I find even on PC games I usually just scroll through weapons using the mouse wheel, as it's quicker.

On the PC version, I used the joypad to drive, the mouse/keyboard to walk and shoot.

Re:What should they improve on?

[moonbender]

Flight yokes and pedals are best for flight simulators, and after that I'd then prefer an analogue pad over a keyboard/mouse anyway, a mouse isn't particularly authentic, which is half the point in simulation.

Yes, of course. You'd typically use pedals, a joystick of some sorts in the right hand - and the keyboard with the left hand, or vice versa if you're left-handed. Flight sims routinely have hundreds of commands, most keys even on the keyboard are massively overloaded using meta-keys like control and alt. There will never be a serious flight sim game for any console unless it ships with it's own controller offering keyboard-like amount of controls. (And yes, I realize that this has - sort of - been done before on the Xbox with that mech game.)

Driving simulators are best served with a wheel and pedals,

Yes, like I said, racing games aren't very well suited to the keyboard. I referred to thinker sims and tactical sims, not sports sims, ie car racing sims, I don't think there are any other unless you consider FIFA and NHL games as simulations.

For turn-based strategy it's fairly irrelevant.

I've just spent a weekend re-playing Civ3, and the many keyboard commands are greatly appreciated. It's way faster to hit I, or R to irrigate or build roads respectively than to click the buttons, even more so if you take into account functions like "build road to..." and so on. Of course the game would be playable without the keyboard, but it's more enjoyable with than without.

The same is true for Sim City and real-time strategy games, they're a lot more fun (to me, at least) with the keyboard to save extraneous "mousing".

and I'd certainly attribute many more game types to consoles than just 'racing and platform'.

Yes, so do I. The last comment was tongue-in-cheeck, sorry if that wasn't clear.

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

Flight sims routinely have hundreds of commands, most keys even on the keyboard are massively overloaded using meta-keys like control and alt. There will never be a serious flight sim game for any console unless it ships with it's own controller offering keyboard-like amount of controls. (And yes, I realize that this has - sort of - been done before on the Xbox with that mech game.)

I used to use X-Plane on my Mac from time to time, and a basic yoke was essential, with as many obvious controls as possible, because the keyboard was little use over the menu system because it lacks the required intuitiveness. I wouldn't consider it any loss at all to just do away with it completely, in favour of a menu system operated by the d-pad, as learning the keys for functions that you might use once in a 4 hour session isn't going to happen, when menu access is easier anyway. Unfortunately, what little market there is for flight simulators is already soaked up by MS Flight Simulator and X-Plane anyway. I hate to use a word like demographic, but the average flight sim fan probably either does not own a console or would not consider it as a platform to use for flight simulation, and it's probably not worth a publishers time and risk to try and implement something otherwise - but I do not believe it in any way impossible.

In terms of the other games you mention, remember that console controllers have between eight and twelve buttons (some of which are analogue) plus two analogue and one digital direction pad, which may or may not make up for the shortcuts you use on the keyboard, just a thought. I'm not trying to argue that it's better, but it is at least an alternative. I suppose the most natural method of simulated control here would possibly be voice recognition, giving orders verbally, although a natural form of this is probably a way off.

Having said all that I do stand corrected, the mouse/keyboard interface on games is better suited in respect to controls for FPS and games with a point and click interface, which is rather unsurprisingly where that style of game proliferates. My reason for my original flamebait posting in the thread really was to take issue with the first reply to the owner of the thread, whose ivory tower attitude was that the PC as a games system was superior in every way, and the console heritage of the game in question, a GTA game, was entirely at fault for the games shortcomings (or, as he made them out as shortcomings, when they were originally just a wishlist, only one of which could perhaps be described as a shortcoming).

Re:What should they improve on?

[fr0dicus]

1) Absolutely. Although I'm sure Rockstar probably didn't envisage this kind of rage, it is fun. This is exactly my point about the quality of the gameplay and environment being more important in GTA than the graphics. I still order a pizza, crack a beer and just put on a GTA and wander about, because there's so much fun to be had outside missions. The decision as to what point tracking of cars and people was stopped was probably taken at a sensible level due to relevance to the gameplay, and it was quickly fixed in the Xbox version when complaints were voiced. It's certainly a feature I'd like to see and assume will be in the new version, but I don't subscribe to the original posters view that it was purely because tEH cOnsOLE sUX0rS or whatever. The Xbox version certainly addressed it, it's clearly not difficult, and a sensible level has to be picked. Tracking every single character and car would be a ridiculous waste of memory and CPU in the context of the game.

2) I can't really see the point of using the mouse when there is the lock-on feature, but each to his own. :-)

Re:What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

> 2) Scrolling is implemented because consoles don't have keyboards that allow you to quick-select particular weapons.

Not exactly true. Consoles don't have keyboards, but they do allow quick-select. See Socom 2. One may choose two weapons from an inventory and assign them to the L1 and L2 shoulder buttons. It's simple, but effective, and no reason GTA couldn't implement this.

Re:What should they improve on?

[damiam]

They don't 'disappear' at all, they're just not tracked once they leave the screen.

Right. So, a car goes around the corner. You follow. It's not there. Alternately, you see a nice car that you want to steal, and take a shortcut to cut it off. It never shows up. I call those cases disappearing. It doesn't ruin the game, but it'd be nice if Rockstar could fix it. If the PS2 isn't capable of keeping track of offscreen vehicles, they could at least add it in for the PC and Xbox versions.

Re:What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah because pointlessly walking around a city shooting people waiting for someone to give you a job hasn't been done before.

Re:What should they improve on?

[obeythefist]

But... GTA:San Andreas isn't even innovating graphics! The only single innovation (granted it's early days yet) we can see is... a bicycle. Vice City had more innovation than that.

But the most innovative of all the GTA games to date? GTA3, which took the game into a the 3D medium. Sure, the game has been around for years before that, but 3D bought the game to the masses. In fact, until Vice City, every single GTA game has been a noticeable improvement in graphics, level design, gameplay. Vice City was really just a mission pack for GTA3. That's all the games industry is doing now - rehashing old engines with little differentiation and adding more missions and selling it as an entirely new game.

Why do they do this when they never did this before? Because consoles are so prevalent now. When developing for PC, with the time you have to develop a new set of missions for a game, the hardware has advanced so much that you can do noticeable and amazing new graphics. Most PC hardware stays beneath it's full capability for at least a year or so after it's bought, too, so anyone can enjoy the improvements. But with a console, by the time you've developed your mission packs and you're ready for a new game... the hardware is the same and your old optimised engine doesn't have any room to grow. So you release the same game with the same (dated)graphics quality and new missions and a different name on the box. Step 3, profit.

Re:What should they improve on?

[obeythefist]

Serious yes. People in Korea have been known to die sitting at PC's in net cafe's playing Counterstrike. That's serious. You want to tell me Super Mario Bros is serious multiplayer?

I'm quite happy to be called an idito, if I could be so kind as to return the favour, and some spelling tips, you idiot AC fool.

Re:What should they improve on?

[danila]

I think a better contender will be Mafia 2. That's the game you can directly compare with GTA in practically all respects. The fact is that modern consoles have effective screen resolution 5-10 times lower than PC monitors. If PC gamers would be content with VGA graphics, it would be much easier to generate reaslitic environments. As it is, though, things like realistic skins, water, human eyes, quality textures are only relevant in PC games, because you can't see them on a TV screen anyway.

Console developers have learned to compensate the deficiencies of their hardware with gratituous special effects (flashy stuff of all sorts) and cinematic cut-scenes. In addition to that, animation and level design are pretty much the same on both PC and consoles. A game similar to ATi Double Cross demo (Ruby) can be rendered on PS2 easily if you are willing to sacrifice the subtle quality details (make 2K poly models with flat low-res textures and without shaders) - this can lead people to the conclusion that consoles are somehow on par with PCs, which is a ridiculous proposition because for a 4+ year old technology (PS2) to beat modern (or 1-2 year old tech) would be quite surprising and unexpected, really.

So while the next Metal Gear Solid may be a pleasant game to play (and if it comes out for the PC I might buy it), it will be exactly 4 years behind Far Cry in terms of jungle realism.

Re:What should they improve on?

[danila]

If the PS2 isn't capable of keeping track of offscreen vehicles, they could at least add it in for the PC and Xbox versions.
The lack of PS2 capabilities is just a bad excuse for sloppy programming. Any person who ever wrote as little as a "Hello world" program is capable of fixing this with few lines of code. All that is needed is for the car to continue moving along the road - a detailed physics simulation is not needed when you don't see the car - assume it's just a point that moves along the line with a fixed speed. Then, when the player turns back to that elusive car, the game engine has to repopulate the world with cars anyway - it would be extremely simple to add the car back, since you know where approximately it should be now.

Assuming you need to track a hundred cars at most, you will probably need an extra kilobyte of memory and about 500-1000 processor operations per second.

Rockstar programmers are not perfect, actually, to tell the truth they are quite average (it's the designers and the producer who are great). Remember how faster Vice City was than GTA3? The only improvement was that programming geniuses from Rockstar finally understood that it makes little sense to render hidden surfaces in the game... Of course, that was described as a real improvement in the engine, not as fixing a glaring hole in its functionality...

Re:What should they improve on?

[danila]

I can't really see the point of using the mouse when there is the lock-on feature, but each to his own. :-)

Immersion. For some players the mouse becomes an extension of your body - a virtual representation of your hand and your head. You can look around, you can point the gun at someone. The same reason GTA moved from 2D to 3D, to make it easier for the player to believe he's in the game.

Re:What should they improve on?

[Anonymous Coward]

you idiot AC fool.
And how long ago did you register here? :)

Re:What should they improve on?

[Nebu]

It would be cool if there were some really bad traffic jams from time to time.

Actually, the way I'm imagining it in my head, I think this feature would actually make the game a lot less fun.

Reloading...

[TheLoneDanger]

Since it's pretty late/early, I'm hoping that my constant reloading to see each of the splash pages doesn't contribute to the Slashdot effect...

But then again, there's only 2 damn screenshots, so there really isn't much there to Slashdot...

Hmm! :)

[rylin]

It changes everytime the site is loaded eh?
Let's see how many splash screens there are! ;D

ps. i count 39
how many do you see?

Re:Hmm! :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Good grief, you *are* the Slashdot effect :)

Re:Hmm! :)

[acd294]

splashArray = new Array("SA_splash1.swf","SA_splash2.swf","SA_splash 3.swf","SA_splash4.swf");

Yep, un huh, 39, Suuurrre.

Re:Hmm! :)

[g-san]

I can't view Flash you insensitive clod.

Flash only site

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I know I shouldn't complain about a game related site using Flash, but come on. I'm getting tired of not being about to view sites anymore because of Flash only design, IE only design, misuse of JavaScript, and more.

Sorry for the diatribe, but I'm just running into this shit way too much anymore. It's getting to be like TV.

Re:Flash only site

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, loads fine in Firefox.

Re:Flash only site

[black mariah]

Boo hoo fucking wah quit your fucking bitching and just turn on Flash like everyone else with a computer made after '92. Fucking hell you act like it's a goddamned anal probe with spikes or something.

Re:Flash only site

[gabec]

the flash loads for me in firefox but the links don't work for me. I was able to see the screenshots in IE but since I don't have Outlook installed I couldn't click the 'join the gta mailing list' link :P anyone care to post the email address they're trying to open outlook with??

Re:Flash only site

[CobaltTiger]

GTA List:
gta-subscribe-request@listserv.rockstargames.com

General Rockstar List:
all-games-subscribe-request@listserv.rockstargames .com

Can anyone do a mod on orbiter?

[linzeal]

I have always wanted to crash mir into disneyland and mean it. Can anyone help me ?

exclusive

[Dreadlord]

So the PC version will be released several months after the PS2 like GTA3 and GTA:VC, can anyone confirm this?

I really like the series, but I'm not going to buy a PS2 just to play the game.

Re:exclusive

[AKnightCowboy]

I really like the series, but I'm not going to buy a PS2 just to play the game.

So just wait for it to come out on the PC. The rest of us who bought a PS2 years ago will just play it and let you know how cool it is.. over and over and over. Unless it sucks.

Re:exclusive

[xalres]

Heh, I love how people rib on PC gamers for not getting to play stuff like GTA or Halo until months or years after release. They mercilessly rub it in our face. Then when we try telling them how much better the PC version is with cleaner textures, higher resolution, better draw distance, MP3 playlists, etc. they tell us to shut the hell up.

BMX ahoy!

[nicky_d]

Heh, looks like you can ride a BMX in GTA:SA - at least, there's one in the screenshots, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't usable (for delivery missions?). The motorbikes were a really well-implemented addition to Vice City, so I've got high hopes for BMX hijinx...

Might be a kick in the teeth going from the Xbox Vice City back to the PS2 for San Andreas, but screw it. I enjoyed VC well enough the first time through on the PS2, and Rockstar's Manhunt is a lot smoother than Vice City on the PS2, so hopefully there'll be some game engine improvements as well...

But BMX action... woo and hoo!

Re:BMX ahoy!

[KDR_11k]

But BMX action... woo and hoo!

We should be glad Acclaim isn't involved with this game...

sunsets

[iamjim]

Sooo, what, you are runing around in a perpetual sunset?

I agree, multi-player would be bad ass, even if it were nothing more than connecting two (or more) PS2's together in a battleship/capture the flag-type-setup.

Another interesting feature would be working in natural disasters like earthquakes, which cause riots, where you need to complete a mission under the guise of a distraught gang member because the man is keeping you down so you loot, pillage and take on PD.

We can all dream, just gotta sit tight till they release it in time for holiday sales, lousy marketing... Making us wait so they can make more money!!!

PS2 exclusivity contract with GTA?

[Golgafrinchan]

Hmm... I thought the PS2 exclusivity contract ran out after VC, and that's why Rockstar was able to release GTA3 and VC for Xbox. Did they sign a new contract with Sony, or are they leaving out the Xbox for other reasons this time?

I'm willing to bet...

[WormholeFiend]

that just from the hype resulting from those screenshots, African American advocacy groups are gonna have a field day with GTA:SA.

Bah, more free advertisement for R*.

Re:I'm willing to bet...

[Zed2K]

Yup, make sure everyone picks up their copy as soon as it comes out to get a version before they start removing things.

Re:I'm willing to bet...

[WormholeFiend]

heh

could be why their website says "preorder now to avoid disappointment". ;-)

Uhhh why is it using Japanese encoding?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is their website using Japanese text encoding?

Not BMX...

[toiletsalmon]

Not to nitpick, but I don't think that's a BMX bike. It'a probably a lowrider bike

They're a little more fragile than your typical BMX because they're just made for show. It goes along with that whole "West Coast" "Gangsta" thing. Bike missions would be pretty sweet though.

Re:Not BMX...

[nicky_d]

Well, I defer to your bike knowledge. Either way, it's got to be promising, and I can't see Rockstar making the bikes all that fragile... I'm envisaging and uzi-enhanced game of Paperboy, stunt courses with great controls (the bike control in VC is wonderful) and insane back-yard / alley getaways, venturing where cars can't follow.

Plus the gentle art of bikejacking from 13-year-olds...

PS2/GTA-SA Bundle

[PretzelWagon]

Hey Sony! How about a PS2/GTA-SA bundle for $149, instead of the new one with worthless network adaptor?

Re:PS2/GTA-SA Bundle

[Anonymous Coward]

> Hey Sony! How about a PS2/GTA-SA bundle for $149, instead of the new one with worthless network adaptor?

Those of us who play Socom 2 online would beg to differ about the relevance of the NA.

AS OF 5/11 SOCOM II STATISTICS

From the Official Playstation Magazine:

959,000 = Diffrent Accounts Created

367,000 = Active Accounts

38,000 = Average users online at the same time
(During Peak Hours 7pm - 12pm EST)

47,000 = Most users recorded at the same time

Isn't It Obvious?

[crashnbur]

What gangster can't swim? We need to be able to swim, at least for a short while. Swim for as long as you can sprint, and when your energy runs low, you swim slower and slowly lose health. This allows you a short amount of time in the water... What's so tough about this?

Bicycles

[blackholepcs]

I noticed in the screenshots that characters are riding bikes. I hope that they put in some real bikes like early 80's Schwinn freestyle, Hutch, GT (non-Walmart), Mongoose (not Wal-goose), Diamondback, Kuhara(spelling?), etc. That'd be pretty sweet. Ah, the good old days of riding my hand-me-down chrome GT and wrecking while trying to immitate my brother going down the street standing on the frame and steering with his foot.

Re:Bicycles

[g-san]

Screw bikes, it's all about spraying bullets while busting a fat darkslide. There must have been some reason for all those empty pools in GTA VC.

Localization...

[gumpish]

It turned my stomach in GTA3 each time I heard a mafioso refer to a garbage truck as a "dust cart", or a parking garage as a "car park".

And let's not forget the level in Manhunt where DMA remids us to "please bin your rubbish".

Wanna be games

[Anonymous Coward]

Yay, another whiteboys imitation version of what black guys are supposed to be like and it'll be gobbled up by wanna be wiggers across America.

Complaints

[Lord_Dweomer]

Alright, first off, their website is Flash...and if the only reason is so they can have that stupid changing main page, well...that's dumb.

Next...am I the ONLY one who's completely fed up with all this rap/hiphop 'gangsta shiznit'? I'm 21 and I am so fucking sick of this stuff its ridiculous. Is this how old people feel about young kids music today? Am I getting old? I mean, yeah, there's a couple of decent songs, any genre has that, but the lifestyle they sell is just as fabricated if not more so than the teenybopper pop lifestyle, but it just SEEMS more genuine 'cuz its from da streets'.

I can see why a game set in modern times might have this theme, but it most certainly should not have the entire game revolve around it. Ugh, way to ruin the game Rockstar.

It's 90's - The Story so Far

[obb]

The setup for the game's been released as well: "Five years ago Carl Johnson escaped from the pressures of life in Los Santos, San Andreas...a city tearing itself apart with gang trouble, drugs and corruption. Where filmstars and millionaires do their best to avoid the dealers and gangbangers. Now, it's the early 90s. Carl's got to go home. His mother has been murdered, his family has fallen apart and his childhood friends are all heading towards disaster. On his return to the neighborhood, a couple of corrupt cops frame him for homicide. CJ is forced on a journey that takes him across the entire state of San Andreas, to save his family and to take control of the streets." This is interesting in that A) You're not a criminal at the beginning of the game. This could mean you might be able to stay that way... or not. B) It mentions the STATE of San Andreas, not city. This means more than just what we can see in 3 screenies C) It's early 90's so it's not the current gansta rap scene. 1And there's lots of good 90's music. I was worried it would be like True Crime radio wise, but Rockstar knows what they're doing and I'm confident that they'll have good tracks.

Haven't heard *that* one before

[bonch]

Yeah, after the 20,000th time I heard that joke, it stopped being a little funny.