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New E3-Shown Games Push Sexual Envelope

Posted by simoniker on from the oh-my dept.

Thanks to CNN Money for its article discussing the seamier side of E3's videogame selection, as it notes: "It's one thing to see Lara Croft's hot-shorts clad posterior while you play 'Tomb Raider.' It's another thing entirely to see the sagging, slightly lumpy and entirely unclothed buttocks of Larry Lovage streak across your screen." The article also discusses Singles, the Eidos U.S.-published title "best described as a naughty version of 'The Sims.'...[which] doesn't shy away from male or female full frontal nudity", noting that "the ESRB slapped 'Singles' with an AO rating", which is "essentially, an NC-17 or worse... Most retailers will not sell a game with that rating." Tom Marx of Eidos expresses his distress with this rating, arguing for an M rating instead, and noting as part of his argument: "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."

91 comments

  1. Adults only? by SELainWhoAmI · · Score: 1

    I guess that explains why I've never heard of the game. They sure do keep the wraps on the AO/X-rated market pretty tight.

    1. Re:Adults only? by praxis22 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You can find this title readily in Germany, it's been reviewed by every major magazine to one extent or another. You really have to wonder about the Puritanical sensibilities of the US at times. What amused me most was seeing many years ago the version of robocop that was screened on TV in America, they left all the violence in, (even the bits they wouldn't show in the UK) but took all the swearing out, which ruined most of the really funny jokes. Wierdness...

    2. Re:Adults only? by baywulf · · Score: 1

      I never understood the Robocop joke "I buy that for a dollar" spread throughout the move.

    3. Re:Adults only? by richie2000 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Of course, in Germany he was dubbed into saying "Ich kauf's für eine D-Mark" which actually does sound kinda funny.

      It's also a world where money trumps morals. OCP chief Dick Jones (a perfectly cast Ronny Cox) is a stiff and greedy lion drunk on his own power, and the slum denizens are constantly repeating the punch line from a bawdy TV show: "I'll buy that for a dollar!"
      www.filmcritic.com
      --
      Money for nothing, pix for free
    4. Re:Adults only? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 3, Funny

      Think of it as the forerunner of 'I'd hit it.'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    5. Re:Adults only? by Creepy · · Score: 2, Funny

      My German's a bit rusty (15 years of disuse), but all those words are familiar -
      "I heads for a dollar" or maybe "I head is for a dollar" (my German grammar is DOA - apostrophe necessary?)

      I can see how that's funny :)

    6. Re:Adults only? by Creepy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, what's interesting is that both Singles, Playboy Mansion, and the new Leisure Suit Larry sequel _ARE_ getting press coverage from major online sites. The new Larry was even in the "top 10" list of games IGN wanted to see at E3 (posted sometime last week, and which begins today). I've seen coverage of both on Gamespy and Gamespot, and I usually just browse through the front page to see what's new without actually looking in-depth.

      The rating systems in the USA are embarassingly broken, and I think need to be re-evaluated.

      Movies:
      Violence - takes a lot to affect rating, a tiny amount can occur in G rated movies. PG if not gory, PG-13 if tiny amount of gore or lots of violence (e.g. Red Dawn), R if really gory. NC-17 is practically impossible without also having sex (take Passion of Christ, for instance)
      Nudity - automatic PG-13, but takes a lot for more than R.
      Sex (faked) - R unless excessive, then NC-17
      Sex (real/graphical) - NC-17/AO
      Drug Paraphenalia - automatic PG-13
      Drug Use - PG-13 if brief or implied, usually R.

      Games:
      Violence - Teen start, can get very gory at M
      Nudity - automatic M, AO if not brief.
      Sex (faked) - adult situations (romance plots)=Teen, implied sex seems to pretty much get an M, more than brief=AO.
      Sex (graphical) - AO
      Drug Paraphenalia - nothing, as far as I can tell - at worst it would be Teen.
      Drug Use - Teen if effects not shown, M if shown (Gothic is the only example I know of).

      Basically, the ratings are fairly close except when it comes to nudity/sex, most likely because of the ESRB's horribly-proven-as-wrong preconception that gamers are all kids. I guess there's still the fear that kids might stumble across the game while playing on their parent's computer or something, but the parent should be responsible enough to either hide the CD or put a password on a user. I mean, seriously - parents could just as easily leave the gun cabinet unlocked or pornography out on the coffee table for their kids to view.

    7. Re:Adults only? by Matrix272 · · Score: 1

      Basically, the ratings are fairly close except when it comes to nudity/sex, most likely because of the ESRB's horribly-proven-as-wrong preconception that gamers are all kids. I guess there's still the fear that kids might stumble across the game while playing on their parent's computer or something, but the parent should be responsible enough to either hide the CD or put a password on a user. I mean, seriously - parents could just as easily leave the gun cabinet unlocked or pornography out on the coffee table for their kids to view.

      I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Humans are the only species on the planet that go to extreme lengths to protect its weakest members. For instance, why do school buses have to completely stop traffic, both lanes, when kids board? If they didn't, a few kids could get hit and die... thereby weeding out the weaker (in this case, dumber) members of the species. Thanks to these lengths, the intellectual rating, as an average, of the human race, is much, much lower than it should be... or would be, if we would just let evolution do what it does best.

      --
      "It's better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it." ~ Christian Slater, True Romance
    8. Re:Adults only? by The_dev0 · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing kauf with kopf. :D

      --
      Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
    9. Re:Adults only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't species like ants have specifically bred weaker castes that they look out for and derive useful services from (ie. breeders and workers etc protected by warriors)? Just think of the dumb majority like that. Good for some limited tasks like packing boxes at amazon, but never capable of taking on that laser shooting spider people with cheat codes can call out (or whatever it is you judge strength to be).

    10. Re:Adults only? by cluke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You've got it very wrong there, my friend. Most mammals go to very great lengths to protect their young, humans included. The reason humans do it even more so is that their young are born in a much more vulnerable state than other mammals.

      You may be right in that our society protects the adult 'weak', i.e. via social security, charity and such mechanisms, but if we were not to protect our children that would be folly of the highest order as far as evolution was concerned. An 8 year-old Einstein is at as much risk of being run over by a car (day-dreaming of relativity, perhaps?) as an 8 year old moron.

    11. Re:Adults only? by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Yeah - I realized that after posting, but it was too late by then :)

      kauf is purchase, kopf is head. 3 seconds later, the mnemonic I used came back - Kaufman (purchaseman) and Schwartzkopf (blackhead, referring to hair, not a zit).

  2. Stupid by Henry+V+.009 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is stupid marketing. If you want to make a game with adult content, sell a PG-13 kiddie version that everybody under 5 can buy, and release the hardcore porn in a patch.

    Helps if you don't have a soul, but big entertainment has proved that lack often enough.

    1. Re:Stupid by Mattcelt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What I think is just as stupid is when a marketer practically begs for a less mature rating for a product which obviously deserves a higher one. I agree that patches for 'adult' content are the way to go - hell, I don't want to see mature content all the time; there are times when it's nice to have a fun game without nudity.

      "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."

      It's obvious that this guy has never seen hentai!

    2. Re:Stupid by one4nine4two · · Score: 1

      You have a tough time finding a game without nudity that's fun for you?

      Kidding aside, what major games that didn't suck had nudity in them? I have no idea but you probably count them on less than one hand.

    3. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vice city

    4. Re:Stupid by WinDoze · · Score: 1

      you probably count them on less than one hand.

      Nice to have that other hand free to, uh, "research" the nudity, eh?

  3. Guys looking at Porn by Uma+Thurman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The only reason anyone is upset is that it's going to be a bunch of guys looking at naked girls on the computer.

    The real outrage is the free ride that women get. I was showing my wife a copy of Playboy magazine. Her reaction was "that's it"? She was expecting some nasty funky stuff or something, based on how bent out of shape people get when you say "Playboy Magazine".

    Then, she showed me her Cosmo. The very same Cosmo that is stocked at the eye-level height of an 8 year old. WOW! She convinced me, and I am not a faithful subscriber.

    So, the story of the future is this: moral outrage about Leisure Suit Larry, extending into perpetuity. But nobody is going to notice the racy programs that will be marketed to girls in the future.

    --
    This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
    1. Re:Guys looking at Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ooops, I meant to say that I am NOW a faithful subscriber.

    2. Re:Guys looking at Porn by crashnbur · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I'll listen to anything Uma Thurman says.

      *drool*

    3. Re:Guys looking at Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I liked it better when you had your opt-in list. Keep your opinions to yourself and get back to showing the true colors of liberals.

    4. Re:Guys looking at Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The list is retired, as was mentioned a long time ago. Anyway, it appears that the true colors of conservatives, if worn by a dog, would lead people to reach for their shotguns.

    5. Re:Guys looking at Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      liberal
      adj.

      1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
      2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

      --

      conservative
      adj.

      1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

    6. Re:Guys looking at Porn by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 1

      She was expecting some nasty funky stuff or something, based on how bent out of shape people get when you say "Playboy Magazine".

      What people get bent out of shape re: Playboy?

      Hustler, Penthouse, Barely Legal, yeah... but Playboy? Gimme a break.

      Then, she showed me her Cosmo. The very same Cosmo that is stocked at the eye-level height of an 8 year old. WOW! She convinced me, and I am not a faithful subscriber.

      I don't look at Cosmo much, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is a women's magazine showing women in attractive clothing/makeup. It's not like most women are buying this magazine to get off.

      So, the story of the future is this: moral outrage about Leisure Suit Larry, extending into perpetuity. But nobody is going to notice the racy programs that will be marketed to girls in the future.

      No, the story is this. Moral outrage will come from conservatives towards anything that makes them uncomfortable.

      Sorry, I just don't buy the "oppression of men's porn" theory.

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    7. Re:Guys looking at Porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      but correct me if I'm wrong

      OK, you're wrong. It's more than a makeup mag. Pick up a copy sometime, and learn how to blow your boyfriend's mind with a toungue properly applied to the penis.

      You think I'm flaming, but that's the type of article they have. Remember, women aren't visual, so their porn looks like the Bible - printed words on the page. Take a close look at the words...

    8. Re:Guys looking at Porn by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      There are still many stupid people who think Playboy is smut. (Of course, Playboy was never about smut, just pretty ladies naked.)

  4. Seamier? by BMonger · · Score: 1

    ... discussing the seamier side of E3's videogame selection...

    Wouldn't it be more appropriate to say "seamless"?

    1. Re:Seamier? by shione · · Score: 1

      I read it as sTeamier. ;)

    2. Re:Seamier? by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 1

      I think you are thing of this article.

      --
      Why not get the real ultimate power?
  5. NAKED PEOPLE! by EnglishTim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Funny, isn't it.

    We've had murder, torture, maiming and genocide in games for ages, but throw in a naked person and suddenly it's a big thing...

    1. Re:NAKED PEOPLE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The silly thing is that nobody other than the Americans gives a fuck. In England, "The Singles" is sitting on the shelves of all the game shops, record stores and supermarkets, and nobody bats an eyelid.

    2. Re:NAKED PEOPLE! by chill182 · · Score: 1

      And all of this went on before video games were even invented? Facinating.

    3. Re:NAKED PEOPLE! by TheDredd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we've seen the insides of people plenty of times, and now there making a problem of showing the outsides!

  6. Retailers won't sell it? by BandoMcHando · · Score: 1

    "essentially, an NC-17 or worse... Most retailers will not sell a game with that rating."

    Is that why I've not yet seen a retailer that doesn't stock this game?

    1. Re:Retailers won't sell it? by TheLoneDanger · · Score: 1

      Ummm... the story is obviously about the US game market. It hasn't even been released here. The North American rights were only purchased by Eidos after its release in Europe and the AO rating was also only applied very recently. I suppose this is why Eidos only mentioned it for release as an online download in their initial press release.

      --

      "But I trust in the people's capacity for reflection, rage and rebellion." -Oscar Olivera
  7. Article author is an idiot... by Mitleid · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Please tell me how it is not sexist to compare a completely unrealistically proportioned female in sexy ass-pants to a middle-aged scumbag trying to get some action, and declaring the latter as beginning to "cross the line"?

    This is a lot like all the hubbub people made about the fucking superbowl "scandal". You have sports institutions like the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders or whatever dressed as clad as legally possible for national TV, and then some "racy" pop star busts out her breast for all of America to see and it's an outrage? Come on!

    Nudity and sex is all about context, and being an American it seems that too many people get bent out of shape about someone being naked, and it's seriously going to warp the minds of our youth. Nudity is declared as innapropriate, but it's completely OK for every other (if not all) female character on TV to be sporting some sort of cleavage or ass-revealing outfit? Leisure Suit Larry is an ADULT-ORIENTED and sexually themed game, thus I hope we get to see some guys nuts and maybe a rediculously-sized breast getting thrown across our screens here and there. That's the appeal of games like that, right? (I don't play them; someone help me out here...) What I don't understand is why do I happen to turn on some tripe like CSI and see a woman clad in the most "professionally-appropriate" revealing outfit and that's "OK"?

    Personally, I think sex is overused in all aspects of American pop culture. But at the same time, the media portrays it as controversial and extreme, and that's why it sells. People always talk about the sexual revolution, blah blah blah, but all the "progress" made in America that ever seems to happen is just allowing women to be able to show more and more of their bodies, and the twisted fools that read magazines like Maxim to oggle over them and continue objectifying, and I think this article only illustrates what kind of a double standard these "journalists" help to create.

    --

    --
    Is it me, or did it just get fatter in here?
    1. Re:Article author is an idiot... by junkgrep · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unfortunately, the bottom line is: who the heck wants to see more of men's dirty, hairy ass cracks? Not even many women, really. Face it: naked women are more universally attractive and less potentially offensive to everyone on the planet except gay men, and even most gay men can appreciate naked chicks aesthetically even if they don't find them sexually interesting.

    2. Re:Article author is an idiot... by JavaLord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nudity and sex is all about context, and being an American it seems that too many people get bent out of shape about someone being naked, and it's seriously going to warp the minds of our youth.

      It does mold the image of the other sex in the minds of young people though. You think a young girl who is bombarded with the objectification of women doesn't get it into her head that she should be the same way? When kids are exposed to near pornography at young ages by their 'idols' you don't think that makes them all the more eager to act it out?

      Leisure Suit Larry is an ADULT-ORIENTED and sexually themed game, thus I hope we get to see some guys nuts and maybe a rediculously-sized breast getting thrown across our screens here and there. That's the appeal of games like that, right? (I don't play them; someone help me out here...)

      I haven't played the LSL games since the first 2 or 3 (on my apple like 15 years ago) but the point back then was adult humor. The sex stuff wasn't that graphic. Of course, graphics have come a long way since then.

      Personally, I think sex is overused in all aspects of American pop culture. But at the same time, the media portrays it as controversial and extreme, and that's why it sells.

      The media is engaging in the same behavior. Stories on sex get viewers, sell newspapers, etc. Even if it's something trivial, if sex is involved people are interested.

      People always talk about the sexual revolution, blah blah blah, but all the "progress" made in America that ever seems to happen is just allowing women to be able to show more and more of their bodies, and the twisted fools that read magazines like Maxim to oggle over them and continue objectifying, and I think this article only illustrates what kind of a double standard these "journalists" help to create.

      I think the real bottom line is, sex should be allowed in video games/media etc. It's a large part of life (at least for me!). The only problem I have with it, is when the media, business and whoever else sells sex to kids.

      I think at some point, as the "Atari/NES generation" ages, and demands better entertainment from their video games, there are going to have to be better guidlines as to what kind of game gets what kind of rating and how they are distributed. I really wonder why retailers won't sell AO games, 7-11 sells porno mags, video stores carry porn, why do we constantly classify video games as a different form of media and as childrens games when such a large chunk of 20-30 males play games still?

    3. Re:Article author is an idiot... by Lynxara · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A hot naked man is just the best thing in the world to look at (for me, anyhow). But so many men buy into the bullshit about men just being innately ugly, that they won't even try to make themselves look good. And thus, they do become pretty ugly.

      This leads to a needless waste of hot man potential, and it leaves me just a little bit sadder.

    4. Re:Article author is an idiot... by TheLoneDanger · · Score: 1

      I'm not totally sure, but if you're looking for "hot man potential" or want to encourage guys to realize their "hot man potential", this probably isn't the best place to start. We are not to be encouraged in this area! ;P

      --

      "But I trust in the people's capacity for reflection, rage and rebellion." -Oscar Olivera
    5. Re:Article author is an idiot... by AnotherFreakboy · · Score: 1

      Some people like women with hairy legs, but not most even though hairy is the natural state. If you think your ass looks ugly covered in hair, why not wax?

      --
      Why not get the real ultimate power?
    6. Re:Article author is an idiot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most gay men can appreciate naked chicks aesthetically even if they don't find them sexually interesting
      This seems true. A friend of mine who is gay, regularly 'reads' those magazines with half-naked chicks on the front cover. I never saw him read any gay mag though.

    7. Re:Article author is an idiot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you've bought into the lie too, and so deeply that you can't see it even when it's being pointed out to you. Pity....

    8. Re:Article author is an idiot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because he can see real-life hot naked guys anytime he wants. How often does a gay guy get to see half-naked chicks?

  8. Game mods! by jvmatthe · · Score: 1, Funny
    I sure hope end users can make their own modifications. Nothing extends the enjoyment of a game like a hot new mod. Mods I'd like to see:
    • Frontal Assault
    • Bombing Run
    • Jailbreak
    • Rocket Arena
    • Assassins (awful, awful)
    • Last Man Standing
    • Team Fortress
    • Capture the Flag
    • And of course...Counter-strike!

    Wait...this is the DooM 3 story, right?

    ;^)

    --
    Curmudgeon Gamer: Not happy
    1. Re:Game mods! by prockcore · · Score: 1

      Frontal Assault

      I believe you mean Full Frontal Assault.

      Jailbreak

      Hot!

  9. I've been waiting for this for a long time by arhar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes!!! Leisure Suit Larry with full nudity! I've been waiting for this since 1988, when I was 7.

    1. Re:I've been waiting for this for a long time by OpMindFck · · Score: 2, Funny

      My god. You were far to young for that sort of thing in 1988. It must have severely warped your fragile mind. At least When I played these games in 1988, I was much older and better able to cope with their deprave influences.

      Ed Kearns
      b. Dec 1979

      --
      Sipping on Jolt and Dew. Laid back. With my mind of my cubicle and my cubicle on my mind.
    2. Re:I've been waiting for this for a long time by perlchild · · Score: 1

      LSL always had a "not adult" mode too, just so they could sell to kids.
      One more reason to know just what's going on your computer, especially if you lend it to a kid.

    3. Re:I've been waiting for this for a long time by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Wow - that old?

      You had ample opportunity to sample the pleasures of this game in a form called a "text adventure" at a much younger age. Soft Porn, the game Leisure Suit Larry was based on, came out WAAAY back in 1981 (you can also find references to it on Al Lowe's site, but this one had history).

      Unfortunately for me, the only thing available at that age was Custer's Revenge, and my mom wouldn't let me rent it, so I got a late start on sexual discovery. Fortunately for me, a friend down the street was adept at stealing his dad's Playboys - if it weren't for that, I woulda been just like the bible thumping white suburbanites that create these inane rules.

  10. HERE! HERE! by filmsmith · · Score: 5, Interesting
    We need a better rating system in games AND in movies. Roger Ebert makes this case very well in one of his Movie Answer Man columns

    Q. I just returned from seeing "The Passion of the Christ." Had I been able to wrench my attention away from all of the horrified children gasping in the audience, I might have appreciated it more.

    I can understand parents showing up at this film with their children expecting something different, but after a few minutes of the tremendous violence shown onscreen, I would have thought more parents would have spared their children further horror. Shouldn't ticket sellers offer some kind of warning to parents showing up with good intentions and young children?

    Carson Utz, Novato, Calif.

    A. I'll go further than that: No responsible parent would allow a child to see the film. "The Passion of the Christ," the most violent film I have ever seen, received an R rating from the MPAA because the group, which exists in part to quell the fears of churchgoing America, lacked the nerve to give it the NC-17 rating it clearly deserves.

    This becomes an unanswerable argument for my recommendation of an A (for adults only) rating between the R (which allows parents to take in children of any age) and the NC-17, which is irretrievably associated with pornography.

    Because many theaters refuse to book NC-17 films, and many media outlets will not advertise them, imagine the irony if their own policies had forced them to boycott "The Passion of the Christ"!

    Let the MPAA bring back the X, which everyone understands, for porno and establish a useful adults-only rating for films that are not pornography but are simply unsuitable for children.


    fs
    1. Re:HERE! HERE! by JavaLord · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I can understand parents showing up at this film with their children expecting something different, but after a few minutes of the tremendous violence shown onscreen, I would have thought more parents would have spared their children further horror. Shouldn't ticket sellers offer some kind of warning to parents showing up with good intentions and young children?

      Just as with Video games, parents need to be informed. How could any parent have missed the media frenzy bitching about how violent "passion of the christ" was? Having managed a movie theater back in my college days, I can tell you that parents just don't care nowadays. I constantly saw parents taking their young children in to see movies like "leathal weapon 4". I don't think it was out of ignorance, I think it's more indifference. I find that most parents just don't know how to be parents anymore and try to treat their children as friends. It's sad.

      If you are a parent and you bring your child to a R rated movie, which is clearly stated to be for people 18 and above, then it's your fault when the child sees the violence, or sex in that movie. It's not the fault of the MPAA or anyone else.

    2. Re:HERE! HERE! by damiangerous · · Score: 1
      Let the MPAA bring back the X, which everyone understands, for porno and establish a useful adults-only rating for films that are not pornography but are simply unsuitable for children.

      That's what NC-17 was supposed to be (I believe it was introduced first with Last Tango in Paris). And it works pretty well. The reason that most theaters don't run NC-17 films has nothing to do with it being "irretrievably associated with pornograhy" (because it simply is not) but rather a matter of simple economics. The under-18 demographic makes up a huge chunk of moviegoers. No theater in their right mind is going to turn away paying customers when they could just carry one of many other films where they wouldn't have to. It's not like there's a shortage of R and lower films to run. The "adults only" film market is a niche one, served (generally well) by smaller independent movie houses.

      Roger Ebert, of all people, should know this. His comments utterly astound and baffle me.

    3. Re:HERE! HERE! by fuzzybunny · · Score: 2, Funny

      Point taken, but wasn't Last Tango in Paris considered "unsuitable for children" exactly because of all the sex and nudity?

      Or, I guess they could have a "porn" rating, one for "artsy but adults only", one for "loads of nekkid boffing, but done very tastefully", one for "s00per violent and gross", and one for everything from "Samuel L. Bronkowitz Presents".

      :-)

      --
      Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
    4. Re:HERE! HERE! by filmsmith · · Score: 1

      First off, Ebert is aware that NC-17 was supposed to be the 'Adult' rating he's pushing now. However, he states that it has fallen far short of that and is now associated (unfairly) with porn. Hence his call for a revision.

      Second, I don't believe it would be a niche market at all. Instead, it would help grade the difference of mature cinema even more and give the director a more subtle brush with which to paint. As it is, most films are being stripped down and released as PG-13 to capture the TRUE moviegoer market that pulls in all the tickets.

      If Eberts opinions surprise you, I would surmise you've not read many of his reviews, articles or colums as this has been a very common theme for several years now and one that he has been pushing upon the MPAA with a great deal of vigor.

      I merely elected to post this one mention of the 'A' rating as it sums up quite well (with a wonderful example) his viewpoint. Maybe someday I'll do the research and post a more in-depth essay of his opinion in my journal.

      fs

    5. Re:HERE! HERE! by perlchild · · Score: 1
      I constantly saw parents taking their young children in to see movies like "leathal weapon 4". I don't think it was out of ignorance, I think it's more indifference.


      You certainly are making points for the people who say "desentivisation to violence" is a lot worse than showing violence.

      I'd put in a caveat however, desentivisation to violence is less likely to occur with movies like "Passion" which show everything(the bad, ugly consequences of violence) than more mainstream, gangster-type movies which only show their good side(i.e. noone ever gets crippled for life by violence/dies on the ambulance in high pain).

      Desentisation occurs when people see the "glamour" of something without its price.

    6. Re:HERE! HERE! by perlchild · · Score: 1
      Second, I don't believe it would be a niche market at all. Instead, it would help grade the difference of mature cinema even more and give the director a more subtle brush with which to paint. As it is, most films are being stripped down and released as PG-13 to capture the TRUE moviegoer market that pulls in all the tickets.

      I disagree with your statement, it IS a niche market, mostly because it turns away moviegoers(a large number of them) without creating the "elite" feel that would allow movie theaters to charge more for being part of the elite, hence, market economics are going to drive them out.

      Now common sense demands that before movie theaters charge more for adults-only film, we force them to charge less for insipid, bad-quality movies. Will that happen? time will tell, moviegoers of the world, unite!
    7. Re:HERE! HERE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > simply unsuitable for children

      You mean like a normal R rating?

    8. Re:HERE! HERE! by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      The UK cinema industry seems to be doing OK with our rating system, so the economic argument doesn't make much sense.
      (over here, films are rated Universal, "Parental Guidance", 12A, 12, 15 and 18. For the last three, if you are younger than the age set you aren't allowed in at all, accompanied by an adult or not. 12A is "under 12's accompanied allowed" IIRC)

  11. Why dont they by Sv-Manowar · · Score: 1

    Why don't they just keep games as games and porn as porn

    --
    Business Voyeur
    1. Re:Why dont they by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "Why don't they just keep games as games and porn as porn "

      Never seen the stripper scene in Vice City have ya.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  12. LOVAGE?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought his name was Larry Laffer

    1. Re:LOVAGE?? by mahdi13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was Laffer...but maybe they change it because they completely left Al Lowe out of this one!

      --
      "Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
    2. Re:LOVAGE?? by arhar · · Score: 2, Informative

      From what I understand, Larry Lovage is Larry Laffer's nephew, thus the different last name.

    3. Re:LOVAGE?? by 33degrees · · Score: 4, Informative
      The back story provided on the website:
      College is tough for Larry - he's basically a pathetic loser who occasionally gets out and hits on chicks, but things always go horribly wrong. When a reality TV dating show comes to campus, Larry decides he's going to revitalize his life by winning the contest and proving once and for all that he can live up to the shining example set by his Old Uncle Larry.
      Considering how old the orginal Larry would be in the minds of people who played the first games, I suppose this makes sense.
  13. Please, please, please.... by lumpenprole · · Score: 1

    Tell me this means a remake of Chiller!

    --
    Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
    1. Re:Please, please, please.... by JAD+lifter · · Score: 1

      Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you!!! That link just brought back so many good childhood memories. I had completely forgotten about that game.

  14. Heeey.... by lumpenprole · · Score: 3, Funny

    You got your Porn in my Videogame!

    You got your Videogame in my Porn!

    MMMMMMMMMMM..............

    --
    Disclaimer: MINAA (Mummy! I'm Not An Animal!)
  15. Re:Uma Thurman? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Is Uma Thurman's husband posting with her Slashdot Login? Seriously, Woman get a "free ride," because, biologically, they are a lot less susceptible visual stimulation than men. You know the joke "I get Playboy for the articles!" Well, females actually do read the articles in Cosmo. Blame testerone, not social mores, for the double-standard.

  16. For the religious right: by KDR_11k · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's noteworthy that Singles supports homosexual relationships.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    1. Re:For the religious right: by Tezkah · · Score: 5, Funny

      "The actions taken by the game industry are an affront to Christians everywhere," declared Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's Best Christian. "I am just thankful that the church's founder, Henry VIII, and his wife Catherine of Aragon, his wife Anne Boleyn, his wife Jane Seymour, his wife Anne of Cleves, his wife Katherine Howard, and his wife Catherine Parr are no longer here to suffer through this assault on our 'traditional Christian marriage.'"

      >.>

    2. Re:For the religious right: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humour, of course, but the reason he founded his own church was so that he could present a pretense of piousness, I should think.

      Nowadays, everyone seems to be following suit, so that they can meet every week and pretend to believe in something they do not, it seems.

  17. Missed the best. by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nobody's mentioned Rumble Roses, the mud-wrestling game which advertises a 'hands free' cpu-vs-cpu mode.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  18. All right! by hal2814 · · Score: 1

    Leisure Suit Larry is coming back. That's awesome! I miss the old guard Sierra Adventure games (well, except for Kings Quest). I do hope Sierra doesn't make it so explicit that it gets too high a rating to be widely distributed. The best part of the Leisure Suit Larry games was that there was a lot of innuendo but not much naughty happening onscreen.

    It would be cool if Sierra could score some cameos like Quagmire from Family Guy or Larry from Three's Company.

  19. This sort of thing cracks me up... by leland242 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So I just started playing the latest (?) Rockstar offering: Manhunt. By far, this is the most violent game I have ever played. It deserves no less than an AO rating, yet it recieves an M because it is just violence and swearing (but no sex). Last night I (virtually) killed someone by ripping out their throat and then punching a hole in thier head - all with a crowbar. Another death involved beating someone with a baseball bat. When they eventually fell to the ground and begged for thier life, I popping thier head with my boot (and hearing brains et al squish across the floor and onto the far wall). Somehow, I think that deserves a stronger rating than an M. Now we have a game with digital (and more than likely, not highly detailed) boobs, butts, and crotches and it's the beginning of the downfall of man. What a sad commentary on our society. Although not surprising in the days of Bush's FCC.

    1. Re:This sort of thing cracks me up... by Asmor · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Oh, come on, I'm all for knocking Bush, but the sad fact of the matter, everything is not his fault. Just most things. As long as I can remember violence has been tolerated far more than nudity in the US. This outrage would be happening just as much under Clinton, Bush Sr. or... Er, who was it, Reagan? (lol, pretty sad that I can only accurately remember back 2 presidents, and I don't actually remember anything from Bush Sr. But give me a break, I was born in '84.)

    2. Re:This sort of thing cracks me up... by leland242 · · Score: 0, Troll
      Son, I was playing on my Atari 2600 when you were suckin on yer mommy's teat. :)

      No, you have a point, it isn't all bush's fault. The Muslims have always hated us and America has almost always been more tolerant of violence than sex (See: The A Team, professional wrestling, boxing, western movies). That said, it is sad that this country spends almost 10 billion dollars a year on porn but throws a hissy fit at video games that are sexually suggestive. Curse the Moral Minority.

    3. Re:This sort of thing cracks me up... by urbaer · · Score: 1

      Makes me wonder what rating real life would get. It contains nudity, adult themes, drug use, violence, sexual blah blah... but it's about choice. You had the option of not putting that crowbar through that guy's head right? You chose to do it (I guess). Can't see that you can really rate games and movies in the same way.

    4. Re:This sort of thing cracks me up... by leland242 · · Score: 1

      You're right, I chose the worst death possible for that guy so I guess the game could be less offensive. You raise an interesting point - just because I can kill the hooker doesn't mean I have to. I think most people (who play action games) would select the graphic violence option over the happy fluffy bunny option.

  20. Blame the religious right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it weren't for the mighty political and corporate power of the religious right in America, we'd all be much more relaxed about stuff like this. It's pretty obvious that nudity is nothing to take so seriously. Graphic sex is another story, but really, presenting a human form unclothed REALLY does not compare to, say, showing someone get their head blown off. And everybody knows that. But welcome to America.

  21. Naive by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 1

    "I don't really think someone is going to get the same feeling of attraction in seeing a full frontal digital game character as they would from seeing that in an actor or actress."

    Wow... sounds like someone is pretty naive.

    --
    Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
  22. Lovage? by op00to · · Score: 1, Informative

    Who the hell is Larry Lovage? C'mon, folks, it's Larry Laffer.

    1. Re:Lovage? by ReyTFox · · Score: 1

      Not so. Larry's retired from the series. This is his NEPHEW we're talking about(hence why the game can take on a college campus setting).

  23. Re:Uma Thurman? by Kwil · · Score: 1

    Read the articles in Cosmo.. ..it's like reading one of those Penthouse Letters digests with some fashion articles and recipes thrown in.

    --

    That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze

  24. 7-11 sells porno mags? No way! by RobertB-DC · · Score: 1

    I really wonder why retailers won't sell AO games, 7-11 sells porno mags, video stores carry porn...

    Here in Texas, the ancestral home of 7-11, I don't see porno mags like Penthouse or Hustler or Playboy for sale. Just Maxim, FHM, Stuff, Cosmo, Sports Illustrated...

    Ok, I stand corrected. Sorry.

    --
    Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
  25. What's a "Sexual Envelope" ? by Dr.+Photo · · Score: 1

    Is that where you keep French Letters?

  26. The Singles by EddWo · · Score: 1

    Has anyone tried playing this game?
    On my Athlon 1.33, 512Mb, GeforceFX 5600 256Mb, it is barely playable at 800x600 with all the details turned right down. It uses up to 300mb of ram and takes ages to load in all the textures etc.

    I think I'll try again in a couple of years when I have a faster PC.

    --
    "Taligent is still pure vapor. Maybe they'll be the last who jumps up on Openstep... "
  27. America: Land of the prude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    "the ESRB slapped 'Singles' with an AO rating", which is "essentially, an NC-17 or worse... Most retailers will not sell a game with that rating."

    This is available both in my local supermarket and at the local computer software chainstore. America, land of the prude indeed. I thought you guys were supposed to be free? Time to start fighting back I think, else you risk becoming a society of people who talk about freedom but will taste less and less of it.

  28. It's about time we get adult games! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When is the rest of the world going to see that video games are not just for kids anymore. The "adult" market is huge...HUGE. If a company would just step up and make a really good adult video game...complete with sex just like a real adult movie, they'd make tons of money. It is only a matter of time. I would never expect to be able to buy a game like that in any normal retail store. I'd expect to have to purchase it at an adult store...that sells other adult items. What do opponents of adult games think...that kids currently do not have access to porn already if they want it? I can find all the porn I want on the internet already with a search that takes mere seconds. For the love of God, we don't live in China! It would not hurt anyone for these games to be out there. Give the games the highest rating, and even pass laws saying you have to be 18 to buy them...we don't care! Just give the people what they want! Let the people express themselves freely!

  29. Cosmo by Shipwack · · Score: 1

    "Cosmo - the magazine lesbians read in order to find out what the straight woman they are trying to seduce is thinking..." Not my quote, but I can't find the author....