Slashdot Mirror
SBC CWA Strike Imminent
Tmack writes "SBC union workers are preparing (again) to strike after negotiations have broken down between CWA and SBC. What this means to the average person? As long as the strike is taking place, orders for new service and repair of existing services with SBC will be delayed as only non-union workers and temps will be around to complete the work. Latest word is the strike is now planned for Friday night through next Tuesday. Check here(1),
here(2), and here(3)
for more info."
Gotta love those long weekends :)
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -RAH
I can't be the only person here who has no idea what this is about...
"We're sorry, the number you have reached has been disconnected or is no longer in service. You can try calling for help but everyone is on strike, thanks."
Does this mean I can stop paying my bill 'cause no one will be there to shut my service off?
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Things would be much worse off if it weren't for organized labor.
IANA Economics Major
looks like one of the major bargaining issues is outsourcing. This is from an interview w/ one of the union members "We recently made 10 test calls to DSL technical support. One went to Florida, one went to Texas and eight went to India," Rosen said. "We would rather see these jobs go to people in Indianapolis than people in India.". Kinda sucks for them.
Isn't this a little localized of a topic to be posted on Slashdot? I mean we have strikes here in New York all the time and I don't see it making the front page. I mean even if it affects 13 states that is not that much in the grand scale of things. Con-Ed goes on strike and it might only affect one state but that includes around 8-10 million people.
Someone could at least explain if this will have an effect on us.
Amazing how their practices are fully legalized. If I were to tell a company:
"Joe won't be coming in to work and you can't fire him nor can you hire a temporary replacement for him. If you want Joe to work again, you must cough up some money."
I'd be arrested and charged with extortion. It has always baffled me that this kind of behavior is actually legally sanctioned.
CWA: Communications Workers of America: a labor union.
SBC: Southwestern Bell Corporation (nee Pacific Bell): an evil, money-grubbing RBOC/ILEC :-).
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
2) exacly why is this news? just because it's in the US? (not sure, just assuming).
People do live outside the US, you know.
Don't worry, this is Texas. Some of us SBC Managers are packin' too!
Yeehaw and all that.
-- C Younger ceyounger@taius.com
Your TLAs are DOA, why R U not bothering 2 explain WTF U R talking about?
IOW, who/what are SBC and CWA?
WWJD? JWRTFM!!!
Southwestern Bell Company. They're the West Coast equal to what Verizon has on the East Coast, and they call their cellular company Cingular.
I heard my dad make some mention of this a few days ago. Of course, this doesn't surprise me. My father spoke of SBC cutting retirement benefits in the future just to get people to retire early before the lower benefits took place.
He also spoke of his animosity towards SBC because of their push for Technicians to get more jobs completed in less time. Thus, you get people doing a job and meeting the most basic requirements to complete the job, so they end up closing out the job quickly.
My dad has a wall of Customer Service awards, but his managers would always complain about his inability to close jobs out quickly. My dad always told them he'd much rather take his time and make sure the customer is happy than do a barely-done job with a disgruntled customer.
Oh well, it doesn't matter now. The older generation of Technicians who actually care about the customer are retiring while newer non-union/contractors fill the slots
Even my dad doesn't have SBC for his phones anymore, even with the retiree discount
Hello. You must be American :)
:)
You people all (most) seem to not like unions. Why? Over here (Europe), they make sure we get the wages we deserve and don't get fired for stupid things like if the boss doesn't like you or whatever. I've never heard of any unreasonable strikes... Have you been indoctrinated from birth or do you have any real reasons to dislike unions?
I think they perfer the term SCABS.. sorry cant help but pick on em..
... only non-union people will be working, so getting things done will take *longer* ?
From the piece of the pie or we stick you dept. Thanks Timothy, we know where your sentiments lie, clearly in the camp of the ruling class, not the workers. I can't wait for all the 'unions ar teh suck!' posts.
Unions brought us child labor laws, eight hour days, overtime pay, the weekend, paid vacations, etc. You think the bosses just gave us all that? Hardly. People fought and died for those benefits and protections, and even if you aren't in a union, rest assured that unions and the threat of unions has made your job better.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Yes. But if you believe in the concept of a 40 hour work week being a fair thing that we all deserve, then you can thank unions for that. Otherwise you'd be working 60-80 hours a week and getting paid for 24 hours a week. Can there be too much of a good thing? Yes. But, I'd far rather have unions around than not. Besides, it's not the unions that are the problem. It the corruption within the unions, just as there is corruption within managment. The bad guys in management want you to work for as little as possible. The bad guys in the union want you to pay your dues even if you don't believe in the union. You're getting fucked from behind by managment and raped in the mouth by the union. Of course that's greatly oversimplified. Unions still do more good than harm and I side with the Union even though I happen to be management where I work.
Who is Twirlip of the Mists?
No, my bad english is a representation of poor education, not my nationality. :)
-- C Younger ceyounger@taius.com
Can't speak for SBC, but if this was Verizon in New York, my response would be "How could you tell?"
Historically, most, if not all, of the benefits that all employees are guaranteed by law were first instituted thanks to labor unions. Clearly, they have served their purpose in the past.
Now, you are right, there are unions that do more harm than good. They impose requirements to create meaningless jobs instead of letting companies become more efficient (and thereby creating new useful jobs or having more money for raises).
On the other hand, there are unions that are vital for protecting the employees. My wife is a teacher, and I've see how private non-unionized schools have taken advantage of her. Everything from expecting her to contribute financially to school fundraisers to attending a week-long out-of-state field trip (with no extra pay or provision in her contract). Of course, teachers are generally there because that's what they want to do, not for the money, which puts them in a prime position to be taken advantage of without a union to look out for their interests. (Of course, I have gripes with the political activities of teachers' unions, but that's another story.)
As a Brit who lives in America, there are some curious differences between European (or British anyway) and American unions. American unions seem only to be strong in a few selected industries, where British unionization is more widespread. However, where the unions are strong in the US they have a hold like the old pre-Thatcher British unions. Lots of silly rules to protect the members at all costs. If your company does a trade show in a unionized hall you are not allowed to carry anything in and out, you have to wait 2 hours for a union guy to come off his break and carry it for you.
It seems according to the message on-air, SBC (SouthwesternBell Communications) has been commanding ever-growing profits at a non-stop rate for the past 10+ years if I recall correctly and yet SBC has been cutting employee benefits and threatening to lower salaries while top executives find more ways to increase their salaries and bonuses.
They [SBC] don't have the excuse of failing profit margins or losses. They are just greedy. If the shareholders out there would vote their minds, they'd probably change out those in control... but then again, they're probably one in the same.
Dear SBC Customer,
This announcement is to help you prepare for the real possibility that your DSL connection may fail and thus be out of service during the possible labor dispute.
We recommend that you review What Should I Do If The Internet Goes Down? and make the necessary preparations.
Sincerely,
Management
The day that I accepted the new job, I got a phone call from my old shop. The union went to management and strong-armed them into restoring a lot of jobs in income-producing areas, including mine. I could have my old position back provided that I came to work the next day. I immediately accepted my old position, and called the new shop to let them know what happened and that I would be returning to my old job.
Good thing I did, too. Within six months of my returning to my old job, the new shop circulated a petition amoung the workers to get rid of the union. As soon as the union was gone, they moved all the first-tier tech support positions to India.
Lesson learned. Unions mean job security. No unions mean you take your chances.
Finding God in a Dog
They started as SBC (Southwestern Bell Company) in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri, then started buying other Baby Bells. They bought SNET (Connecticut), Ameritech (Illinois, Wisconson, Michigan, Indiana and Ohio) and recently PacBell/Nevada Bell (California and Nevada).
Verizon covers most of the rest of the New England states and also Kentuky, West Virginia and Virginia.
BellSouth covers the US South, with North & South Carolina, Tennessee, Louisana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and Florida.
Qwest (formerly USWest) covers the US West and Northwest, Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, North & South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota.
There's a few other Local Exchange Carriers around, but they're generally minor, and Verizon has some odd-ball areas in Southern California, Florida and a couple other places that used to be GTE areas.
"Snoochie-Boochies? Who talks like that? That is babytalk!"-Jay, Chasing Amy
...announcing a strike at the same time Cingular and AT&T are announcing approval of a merger. The "cost" of the merger is tied to the value of the stock. The value of the stock drops, and Cingular loses. The union is blackmailing the company into settling fast and sweet by timing their announcement to knock the stock prices down at a critical time.
If SBC has the gonadal substructure, they'll reply with "Well, with all these AT&T people coming on board, we'll be way over staffed, and we'll have to start cutting some jobs..."
Hey, I'm against both sides. I just enjoy a good corporate bloodbath. Movies are getting too expensive, news is free.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
The Communications Workers of America (CWA) has issued a press release, Communications Workers Set Strike at SBC Involving 100,000 Workers at Midnight Tomorrow:
The CWA also offers a See-n-Say with CWA Game.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I mean, honestly. Having no technicians to fix things will mean what exactly?
An anecdote from my personal experience with them...
SBC was supposed to install DSL at my home. The equipment for my end came and I hooked it up, waiting for the date service was supposed to start. The day comes and goes with no DSL. I call them the next day and spend several hours on the phone with a tech. Finally, he comes to the conclusion that I don't seem to have DSL service.
In fact, he can't even find record of the order, despite them having sent me equipment. We get off the phone, and I am called not once, but three times by different companies they apparently contract with to let me know that my DSL service is down.
Finally, they get their act together and fix the problem. Over the next three days I received four phone calls and two in-person visits letting me know that they fixed my DSL service.
Never mind how SBC used to call me at my old address trying to sell me DSL (which wasn't offered in my area at the time). We actually ordered it the first time, and it took them two months of hassles to get the to admit they don't offer it in our area and get a refund for the two months of service they charged us for.
So I ask, how would I be able to tell that there was a strike? Oh, my phone wouldn't ring off the hook with notifications of information I already know.
~Dan
What a crock, i have working in a union environment before, and never will again, I have too good of a work ethic and end up carrying my fellow "workers" because they want to sleep or have a beer or 20.
Unions should be banned.
We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully "designed" to have come into existence by chance.
Yeah, like I said above... I personally feel that the Union has outlived it's usefulness.. SBC pretty much gave them most of the major things they wanted. The two main sticking points are: 1: Medical Copays.. currently the Union guys don't have to pay any medical premiums, and a small copay for each visit. SBC will still pay their premiums, but raise the copays a bit.. but that's still way the hell better than the "Management" employees get. 2: Job Security.. SBC is offering any Union member a job in the same state that they currently work in if their job is "surplused". I think that 100% of people wish they had any job security, let alone that kind. If anybody cares to read SBC's side of things, read www.sbcupdate.com . It will tell SBC's side of things. Now I'm off to frickin' Detroit to run phone lines for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.. thanks Union.
...fewer failures. When the line workers go out on strike, nothing breaks. Studies show that almost all telco failures are a result of installations or configuration changes.
Anyhow, we have our own fiber network, our own switchng equipment, and we are responsible for our own order processing, repairs, service changes, etc. Basically we rely on SBC for what is termed the "last mile", or the cable that leaves from either a COLO (colococation office) or CO (central office) and leads right up to the building being serviced. This also includes the pedestals and other line structures used to pass service along.
We rely on SBC to make repairs to aerial or buried drops and for basic installation. How it works is we send SBC an order saying "Hey, this person wants our service. Hook them up." SBC then gives us the line from their switch and ensures that the line leading from the pedestal or segmentation equipment is dropped off at the NID (Network Interface Device). We then complete the order by doing the necessary routing, NPAC (Number Portability), hooking up the inside wiring, and ensuring service is delivered properly. As you can imagine, while we don't overly rely on SBC's equipment we are very dependent on their service. This strike will make an already long installation process even longer and perhaps delay repairs to infrastructure. While this strike seems to only affect SBC and their customers on the surface, this could have potentially damaging effects on our service as well by delaying key steps in the installation and repair sectors.
SBC has always been a little underhanded when it has come to playing fair, ie giving our customers lines that they knew were of less than stellar quality, delaying the install process when they can get away with it, charging us for doing a "no trouble found" dispatch where the problem "mysteriously" diappears so as to cause an unnecessary dispatch chargeback to appear, etc. We try and get along, but it is not always that easy. We've had issues with their technicians disparaging our service as well, trying to get a "winback" so as to regain their previous customers' service. In fact, we keep a database of all the things that SBC has done to try and undermine our service so we can have an accurate record to present to the PSC (Public Service Commission). You'd be amazed at what SBC tries to do to steal back their customers. Thankfully we do provide cheaper service and better customer care IMHO.
While I understand why the CWA is striking I hope the issue is solved soon. Otherwise it is going to cause our little company a lot of headaches in the long run. While we may not always get along, we are really dependent on SBC to get service and maintanance schedules completed properly and on time.
"This food is problematic."
The nice thing about unions is that they mean job security, and protection from overzealous greedy companies. They give the workers a voice and strength against getting screwed by a few rich bastards.
The bad thing about unions is they mean you don't have to work hard to keep a job, even at a generous, well managed company. They give workers a lever to use against management to get what they want even if it means screwing a management who's actually doing a decent job.
Sounds like the same union huh?
Unions themselves aren't inherently evil, but they are easily abused these days. I'd rather have lazy stupid people wandering around happy they have a job than lazy stupid people screaming with picket signs and complaining to me that they have no job and they have the right to break into my house and steal my things because society sucks. I believe in that social safety net and all.
However, tighting up a few rules and introducing some healthy competition into unions would be a stellar idea. How about requiring that companies have more than one union for the same workers?! The union that performs better gets better bonuses from the company. How about restricting some of the practices with unions, like making strikes illegal for more important service companies like SBC, where service is crucial.
But of course, evil unions have lobbies, and would never allow that to happen.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
Almost all workers in the US have the right to quit their job if they don't like the conditions. Unions were formed by people saying "Unless you start collective barganing with this here union we formed, we all quit." You decided that you'd rather deal with the union than to find all new workers. All contracts you signed say you will continue to work with the union rather than replace all your workers at one time. In other words, you signed a contact. Capitalitic enough for you?
The definition of capitalism would more likely say that if workers aren't satisfied with their wages and think they're being shafted by management, they can all go and start up their own competing business and offer better service and pay their workers higher wages.
It also has a few things to say about:
Safety conditions - brought to you by unions
Hour limits and overtime pay - brought to you by unions
Minimum wage - brought to you by unions
loyal workers & customers - brought to you by happy workers that happen to belong to a union.
Which isn't to say that some unions can't be nuts, but in this case I think CWA has a few points. Like share the wealth we made for you with the people that made it happen. Still, SBC doesn't have to deal with the union if it doesn't want to. Just replace all those workers all at once.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
In most union shops, striking is a valid work activity - firing a worker for participating in a strike is just short of being illegal (it may actually be, in some places).
Remember the air traffic controllers strike in the 80's? The only way those guys got of the picket line was through an Executive Order from Pres. Ronnie Raygun - basically, he fired them all and replaced them with people who do the damn job.
...and you run and you run and you can't stop what's been done...
Which is all great, except who are SBA, CWA or Verizon? If they go on strike, what changes?
.org" site?
I seriously have no idea. Whenever I see Verizon, I think it's Verisign.
All the Slashdot blurb tells me is that SBC provide a service and repair existing services. That service could be mobile dog-washing for all the explaining done.
The first article tells me that CWA is Communications Workers of America. The second suggests that a telephone company is involved, and the third is fluff.
So people might experience delays with getting a new phone service or repairing an existing one, but can still make calls, and this is frontdoor news on an "international
I've had news submissions about students discovering critical flaws in wireless technology get rejected while something like this gets through? Hmm.
'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
How few people here know who SBC is, I mean they are only in 13 states but still, SBC is one of the larget telecom companies in the US.
There are some particularly interesting things to note about this strike (for the record I am one of the replacement workers set to go in to work when they go on strike, alongside alot of out of town SBC managers and some retired SBC workers).
First off, the original strike deadline was set for the 7th of May, for some stupid reason the CWA decided to work through the deadline even though next to NO concessions were made by SBC, thus weakening their position.
Second, as if it didnt seem dumb before, this isnt the first time the CWA tried this tactic, they previously did the same thing at Verizon last year, not suprisingly they ended up getting squeezed on most issues, including a ~$1 billion healthcare package.
Third, the strike is, if you can believe this, a 4 day only strike....to quote a CWA spokesperson "this will show SBC how seriously we are taking this issue."....right....so, to show how serious you are, you worked through one deadline....set another, and then openly told them it would last no more than 4 days....thats serious folks.
Also for what its worth the same spokesperson said the move was only 4 days because they dont want to inflict permanent damage to SBC's business, however at the same time they are mobilizing a carrier switch campaign aimed at persuading SBC's business customers to switch over to AT&T (who does business in 11 of SBC's 13 operating states).
Personally I think the CWA workers have a D@MN good job, and even with the increases laid out in this plan have some excellent healthcare plans....however I feel bad for them because it appears their negotiators have their heads firmly implanted in their rectums.
I honestly wish I could get by without taking this job because while I disagree with the unions I dont neccisarily like the idea of being a replacement worker, but apparently unbeknownst to the CWA workers, the economy sucks and IT jobs are about as scarce as it gets. But either way, as long as I make enough money to keep a roof over my head and they get enough of their demands met, I guess its a win/win.
"The saddest words of mice and men, are not those which were, but should have been."
The SBC workers in the CWA who are threatening to strike are being rediculous if you ask me. Their big sticking point is that they do not feel that they should have to pay a copay on medical visits. These workers all get FREE healthcare (NOTHING is deducted from their checks) and are complaining because the company wants to raise their copay to $20 for the next 2 years, then 25 for 2 more, and then $30... But again.. they pay nothing but copays.
SBC non-union employees pay about $500 a month out of their checks and already have a $20 copay.
These guys have cushy jobs... What other job can you stretch 4 jobs out over the course of a day, sit in your truck and read the paper for 4 hoursm and then collect overtime to boot?
I'm not an SBC employee, but i know that as a VP @ a NYC brokerage firm, I pay $450 monthly for medical (that doesnt even include dental) and have a $20 copay.. And i actually have to work for a living.
These guys need to come back to reality and stay at work. If it were upto me I'd fire all of the ungrateful bastages, and give the jobs to those who are out of a job. People whine about the economy, but it cant be that bad if these guys are crying about a $5 raise in their copay
Just my $0.02
As long as they kept paying him, then they were in fact accepting the modification he made of said arrangemnet to only provide service with no quality.
There is the policy a company states they wish to follow, and there is the policy a companies staff actually implements - these are usually different. A persons job is what they can do and convince the company to pay them for. It's up to the company to hire people that will try to do things beneficial for the company instead of draining from the company. Companies also have the choice to spend less attention to good hiring and more attention to monitoring for enforcement of a centralized policy - but it's more cost effective to find good people that require less monitoring.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Labor union officials enjoy many extraordinary powers and immunities that were created by legislatures and the courts. Union officials claim to rely on the support of rank-and-file workers. Yet, they clamor in the political arena to secure and expand their government-granted powers, including the powers to shake down workers for financial support and even to wage campaigns of violent retaliation against non-union employees.
The following list of special privileges reveals the extent to which union bosses have rigged our nation's labor laws in their favor.
Privilege #1: Exemption from prosecution for union violence.
The most egregious example of organized labor's special privileges and immunities is the 1973 United States v. Enmons decision. In it, the United States Supreme Court held that union violence is exempted from the Hobbs Act, which makes it a federal crime to obstruct interstate commerce by robbery or extortion. As a result, thousands of incidents of violent assaults (directed mostly against workers) by union militants have gone unpunished. Meanwhile, many states also restrict the authority of law enforcement to enforce laws during strikes.
Privilege #2: Exemption from anti-monopoly laws.
The Clayton Act of 1914 exempts unions from anti-monopoly laws, enabling union officials to forcibly drive out independent or alternative employee bargaining groups.
Privilege #3: Power to force employees to accept unwanted union representation.
Monopoly bargaining, or "exclusive representation," which is embedded in most of the country's labor relations statutes, enables union officials to act as the exclusive bargaining agents of all employees at a unionized workplace, thereby depriving employees of the right to make their own employment contracts. For example, the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) of 1935, the Federal Labor Relations Act (FLRA) of 1978, and the Railway Labor Act (RLA) of 1926 prohibit employees from negotiating their own contracts with their employers or choosing their own workplace representatives.
Privilege #4: Power to collect forced union dues.
Unlike other private organizations, unions can compel individuals to support them financially. In 28 states under the NLRA (those that have not passed Right to Work laws), all states under the RLA, on "exclusive federal enclaves," and in many states under public sector labor relations acts, employees may be forced to pay union dues as a condition of employment, even if they reject union affiliation.
Privilege #5: Unlimited, undisclosed electioneering.
The Federal Election Campaign Act exempts unions from its limits on campaign contributions and expenditures, as well as some of its reporting requirements. Union bigwigs can spend unlimited amounts on communications to members and their families in support of, or opposition to, candidates for federal office, and they need not report these expenditures if they successfully claim that union publications are primarily devoted to other subjects. For years, the politically active National Education Association (NEA) teacher union has gotten away with claiming zero political expenditures on its IRS tax forms!
Privilege #6: Ability to strong-arm employers into negotiations.
Unlike all other parties in the economic marketplace, union officials can compel employers to bargain with them. The NLRA, FLRA, and RLA make it illegal for employers to resist a union's collective bargaining efforts and difficult for them to counter aggressive and deceptive campaigns waged by union organizers.
Privilege #7: Right to trespass on an employer's private property.
The Norris-LaGuardia Act of 1932 (and state anti-injunction acts) give union activists immunity from injunctions against trespass on an employer's property.
Privilege #8: Ability of strikers to keep jobs despite refusing to work.
Unlike other employees, unionized employees in the private sector have the right to strike; that is, to refuse to work while keeping their job. In some
I lose my SBC DS1 line every time it rains. They fumble and bumble, I lose a day's work, and my CEO gets grumpy. Eventually, the water evaporates and all of a sudden, it's "No trouble found". I don't see how a strike would change anything.
Today was my last day as a 411 operator with SBC. Starting a new job next week. Yay, me.
Anyways, SBC is fucking cheap. They make mad profit every year, but they can't afford a single water cooler for our little 90 person office on the shoreline in Connecticut. They want you plugged in and taking calls on time, but the clocks go unfixed. It feels like a fucking casino. A simple bit of routine maintenance. I'm surprised the mens bathroom light got fixed today.
Good employees that make a company as profitable as it is, should not be treated like disposable trash.
BytesTemplar.com