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FSF Subpoenaed by SCO
An anonymous reader writes "Bradley M. Kuhn on the FSF website: Late last year, we were subpoenaed by SCO as part of the ongoing dispute
between SCO and IBM. Today, we made that
subpoena available on our website. This is a broad subpoena that
effectively asks for every single document about the GPL and enforcement
of the GPL since 1999. They also demand every document and email that we
have exchanged with Linus Torvalds, IBM, and other players in the
community. In many cases, they are asking for information that is
confidential communication between us and our lawyers, or between us and
our contributors."
> In many cases, they are asking for information that is confidential communication
> between us and our lawyers, or between us and our contributors."
See JYA at Cryptome for how to deal with this sort of thing.
At least they got a check for $30 out of it!
Will RMS testify in his St. Ignucius costume.
Why didn't they ask for internet histories and newsgroup postings made as well? This sounds like they're grasping for straws when they don't even know what straw to look for. It sounds like harassment more than a subpoena.
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
I say you should download every mail list, usenet archive, and online discussion group, then print it all out on 10,000 pages. Throw in RFCs and source code to bulk it up a bit.
_______
2B1ASK1
So lawyers are petitioning for confidential information from other lawyers, knowing it is confidential?
Why, preytell, have there been no petitions to have SCOs lawyers disbarred yet?
Feed the need: Digitaladdiction.net
IANAL, but is this legal? Don't they have to somehow prove that the documents they're asking for have some relevance to their argument?
Furthermore, what exactly is their argument? Is it still that Linux contains SCO code? How would documents about "enforcement of the GPL" prove existence of SCO code?
OMG! Wau!
Assure them that you have the documents they, and also that you have undeniable proof of the documents. Refuse to provide them, on ground that it would violate agreements you have with certain parties (don't mention who these parties are).
If all else fails, claim that you cannot provide the documents because it is a matter of national security.
2003 was a very good year for learning new stonewalling techniques...
$8.95/mo web hosting
Related docs which could make the subpoena irrelevant: Defendant/Counterclaim Plaintoff IBM's Memorandum In Support of its Cross-Motion for Partial Summary Judgement on its claim for Declaratory Judgment of Non-Infringement (phew).
SCO is making a last grasp for anything.
The subpoena was filed last year. It's not a sudden "Hail Mary".
btw, fp!
At least you don't fail that.
Trolling is a art,
IANAL, but that's my take from reading the subpoena. It looks to me like Darl & company may be trying to assert that the GPL is void because it's not being enforced. And, its use against SCO is a special case.
Its pretty obvious what SCO's trying to do here. This had one of two objectives:
Why would communication between FSF and its contributors be confidential?
Evan Prodromou | evan@prodromou.name | http://evan.prodromou.name/
Now is the time to support the FSF, so they can fight this thing. It'd be awful if they had to give out private emails and other communication.
Become a member of the FSF and support them financially. (I am already a member). You can also send anonymous donations, or buy something from GNU Press.
The law firm misspelled their own name in the subpoena: "Boise Schiller & Flexner".
Shoot, they nearly asked for everything but the birth certificates of FSF members.
They are essentially asking for *anything* that might be related to the GPL, the companies that use it, people that write under it, enforcement, etc, including written communications, memo, documentation, etc.
No sig
besides letting the free software/open source community know what SCO is stooping to? maybe the FSF lawyers told them not to release the contents of the subpoena until they were certain of any legal actions they had to take.
agendas maybe. not all agendas are bad.
The documents are just getting posted, but IBM has just filed a "Cross-motion for partial summary judgment on claim for declaratory judgment of non-infringement." They are asking for summary judgment on IBM's "Tenth Counterclaim." This is the counterclaim in question:
IBM is entitled to a declaratory judgment pursuant to 28 U. C. 9 2201 that IBM does not infringe, induce the infringement of, or contribute to the infringement of any SCO copyright through its Linux activities, including its use, reproduction and improvement of Linux, and that some or all of SCO' s purported copyrights in UNIX are invalid and unenforceable.
The docs are just starting to get up but you can follow the discussion on the Yahoo SCOX message board.
infested with jello like fishes no melotron wishes
Dear FSF,
All your documents are belong to us. Here's 30 bucks to cover your copying costs (in case you didn't get that this is a big "fuck you", let us clarify that for you - "FUCK YOU"). Toodle-oo!
Yours truly,
Your buddies at Dewey, Stickham and Howe
SCO is screwed by their own admission
Quote
SCO has advised the court that it has provided complete and detailed responses to the Court's orders. If that is true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has no evidence of IBM's alledged infringement (as SCO has adduced none). If it is not true, then summary judgement is appropriate because SCO has not only defied two orders of the Court, but it has also falsely certified that it has provided complete, detailed and thorough answers to IBM's interrogatories and the Court's orders. Either way, the Court should forthwith enter summary judgment in favor of IBM.
Help fight continental drift.
"lack of best practices in the Open Source community."
The ONLY organization who follows best practices as I can tell, proprietary or open-source, is GNU.
I mean, honestly, in how many businesses do you think lawyers review code written by internal employees to verify that the code they include is original. How might one validate that, anyway? If someone is copying from a private archive, it would be impossible to tell, because it's private.
Anyway, open-source in general is the best about this, because the source code is available for third-party examination. So, if you feel someone might be infringeing on you, no need for lawyers or subpeonas, just check the code from the website!
With proprietary software, if someone is infringing, you have to subpoena the source code just to verify it, and you wind up with significant amounts of egg on your face if you are wrong.
Engineering and the Ultimate
1) principle
2) cost
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
The FSF just published a license, which Linus just happened to adopt for Linux. What do they have to do with the SCO lawsuit?
At the hearing: "Your honor, it was addressed to whom it may concern. None of us were particularly concerned, so we trashed it."
As an alternative, they could just send backup tapes of the hard drives off of every server which FSF earns, and let Boies and company figure out how to extract the data. Extra points for using an obscure/obsolete tape format.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
Read the document, it's data November 2003
This is online as a historical document, not as a new summons. Complience with it is now a moot point (unless there was something really freaky going on that we're not aware of), given they were due by 21st Nov 2003.
For the same reason that you don't let the police seach your house for no reason. After all, you have nothing to hide, what's the danger.
the licensing fees for the postal service.
I prefer the word stamps, it's shorter...
Bless me, Father, for I have GOTOed.
Can we search that computer for kiddie porn? You have nothing to hide, right? Call us in a month to see if our technicians are done searching, and where you can pick up your computer.
Have you ever been drunk? Can we take your liver so we can check?
You should never trust them, regardless. What's a "good reason" this week? Because you dress funny? Talk loud? Smell bad? Are a ?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Given their delaying tactics they might love to be given too much data.
Aside from the question of who eventually will get that data ie invisible backers, they seem to be abusing the trial as a way to get press not justice.
Whatever intelligence they can collect for their backers is probably gravy, and if they can gain a delay based on its volume that must suit them fine.
Besides when you know there won't be proof you can use its easy to disregard stacks of paper.
Perhaps they could hire the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution to make grand pronouncements without the burden of the facts.
Dear SCO, I am respectfully contacting you confidentialy for your information assistence. My father, the late Prime Minister of Free Trade Software Foundation, was assinated and left me with 32,000,000 GPL related documents {THIRTY-TWO MILIONS). To get access to these documents I need access to a foreign company. For your assistance I will reimburse you 15% (FIVE MILIONS U.S. DOCUMENTS). If you are willing to help me, please sent me a supeena with your name, address, and contact on it. I hope this reaches you with respect, my sick mother needs the documents quickly before her illness takes her to heaven.
This is one of the things which separates Europeans from Americans.
I spent quite a bit of time in Ireland, for example. The reason why European countries tend to have fewer civil liberties is because their citizens honestly believe they don't need them. Americans were taught from the founding of their country to be suspicious of authority.
+++ATH0
Their stock price is just about the same level as when this whole thing got started.
Well, maybe. Depends on how you look at it.
Here's a table of SCOX stock price, sampled once per month. It starts with Caldera (the former company name) going public during the height of the NASDAQ bubble in March 2000.
SCOX: Historical Prices for SCO Group, Inc.
Some key dates and prices:
2002-07 $1.04 Darl McBride joins SCO
2003-01 $1.35 SCO makes anti-Linux noises
2003-03 $2.88 SCO files lawsuit against IBM
2003-10 $22.29 SCOX hits high
2004-05 $4.78 SCOX right now, 2004-05-20
So SCOX is still up a bunch from when McBride started the anti-Linux strategy. I consider the base price to be $1.50, and SCOX is still trading at 300% of that base price.
In my opinion, the products-and-services side of SCO is worthless, and their only viable business is this lawsuit. And the lawsuit is getting less viable every month.
Then neither am I. I had the priviledge of seeing Eben Moglen speak during OSConf at University of Toronto, and after that display, I feel it's safe to say that the FSF does not need any legal advice from the outside, much less IANALs from Slashdot getting the issue hopelessly confused.
Other lawyers who are ignorant of the law, seem to irritate him somewhat. I don't blame him. But given that tidbit of knowledge, just imagine how he feels about the garbage SCO is throwing around.
I am sure that if it has not done so already, the FSF will respond decisively in an ethical and legal manner, and certainly nothing substantial will ever come of SCO's whining.
Random and weird software I've written.
If FSF has nothing to hide
That mentality really pisses me off. Just because YOU don't value privacy, and just because YOU don't value the confidentiality of business communications, doesn't mean NOBODY does.
Should nudists pass laws requiring everyone to be naked when the weather is nice?
Laws protecting privacy were created to benefit those of us who DO value it. If you don't value privacy, you can post all your information on the web for all I care. But don't expect me to.
Can we search that computer for kiddie porn? You have nothing to hide, right?
Uh. Yes, sure. Why not?
Ok. Hope you don't mind being without a computer for an indefinite period of time. Don't worry -- we'll get to it shortly. The guys down at the lab say they're only 3 months behind in data analysis at the moment.
Oh, and we'd like to check your tax records for the past 7 years. Please provide all receipts that are applicable during that time period. If you donated any items to charity and claimed that as a deduction, you will need to provide proof of your cost basis as well as proof of value of the item at the time you donated it.
Oh, I'm sure you didn't do anything wrong. We just like to check from time to time. I do hope this doesn't inconvienece you. Of course, if you can't provide this information, then I'm afraid some penalties may apply...
Figured it out yet? It's not about having something to hide -- it's about wasting other people's time and money for no good reason.
In the case of police work, it's known as a fishing expedition -- you have no idea what the hell you're looking for, but everyone breaks the law sooner or later.
My favorite part of the FSF letter:
In addition to answering and/or disputing the subpoena, we must also educate the community about why it is that Linux was attacked and GNU was not. For more than a decade, FSF has urged projects to build a process whereby the legal assembly of the software is as sound as the software development itself. Many Free Software developers saw the copyright assignment process used for most GNU components as a nuisance, but we arduously designed and redesigned the process to remove the onerousness. Now the SCO fiasco has shown the community the resilience and complete certainty that a good legal assembly process can create. (SCO, after all, eventually dropped their claims against GNU as a whole and focused on the Linux project which, for all its wonderful technical achievements, has a rather loose legal assembly process.)
I would let the local cops search my place without a warrant, right after they remove the shotgun from my lifeless hands, of course.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
SCO has finally gone fishing nuts.
... time ... time ... will the FSF Foundation ever get reimbursed for all the time spent from a company that will just file bankruptcy when needed.
... over months and years. That guy at SCO he ain't smart enough for such tactical/strategic thought ... I wonder who the real software boss is?
....
... $30 for everything copied and shipped ... sounds like they may want to know exactly which trash-dump FSF's trash was tossed in for the past decade. Then, maybe, next year SCO will ask FSF and RMS to deliver the trash dump to SCO.
Just me, from when I started my archives in 1987, for email and personal/work files (with some whoops redundancy).... I have a little over 10G [lots of pictures, some text, a few corrupt files, and I know there must be a couple ancient MS-DOS and/or CP/M viruses entombed for posterity].
If they want everything from FSF/GNU/RMS/EmployeeA-z/ContactA-Z/.... They could be fishing for years, and catch a few interesting zip-null files for all their efforts. Those folks at SCO must be getting sustenance from a deep-pockets source for these fishing expeditions, because they are wasting everyone's time
Maybe that is it, they are trying to bankrupt the FSF foundation by having everyone working at the FSF for nothing and costing time and money
I will continue to make ($20-$200) donations to FSF and others, but I will continue to keep it all hand2hand without receipts or tax benefits. I don't got time or money for SCO to get me or maybe the US software Gestapo that went after that nice Georgia Cracker lady that protects the USA Constitution, Democracy, and voting
I may be paranoid, but I can see it coming
"Reality is a self-induced hallucination." [Anyone know who owns this line?]
OldHawk777
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
What if it doesn't eliminate you as a suspect? What if there is something that makes you even more suspicious - and yet, you are still completely unrelated to the crime - and you are taken to prison and, say, raped by an inmate?
We are paranoid about our government because it commands enormous resources that are under the purview of individuals that are sometimes not entirely trustworthy (compare to your concern about people being responsible enough to carry loaded guns). Our goverment hides and outright falsifies information about a myriad of things that could be enormously beneficial to its citizens and the world at large because it is beneficial to its somewhat shady, ill-defined, perhaps amoral goals.
Do you honestly believe any governmental system can be much different?
+++ATH0
Or, the police plant or contrive evidence to show you did commit a crime and you go to prison.
No, at least here, some police are more worried about finding *someone* to pin the crime on, rather than finding the actual criminal.
In that vein, before you do anything, speak to my lawyer first. *PERIOD*
If it appears as though you mean no harm, then I'll think about co-operating. More likely, you'll get exactly what the constitution allows and absolutly nothing more.
There are many who are in prison innocently who had their crime pinned on them by police who simply wanted a conviction rather than a conviction of the *right* person. Refusing the be questioned without an attorney, refusing searches and siezures without a properly executed warrant etc are the first steps to protecting yourself against these problems.
Sure, you're right, it's probably not the most polite and best approach, but when my freedom and reputation are at stake and I'm not sure of the character of those on the other side, that is just the way it must be to afford me the protection I require.
Just by 0.02 cents.
Cheers,
Greg
This is correct, but the standard is very broad. This action is in Federal Court, and is therefore governed by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP). FRCP Rule 26(b)(1) provides:
FRCP Rule 26(b)(1) (emphasis added). The portion of FRCP 26(b)(1) emphasized above is very important. The requested information need not be admissible; it only has to be "reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence."
Further, under Rule 401 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, "relevant evidence" is defined very broadly as follows:
FRE Rule 401 (emphasis added).
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Here in Greece it is illegal for the IRS (the Greek version obviously) to even *touch* your computer, let alone take it.
They alway tell someone "show us this" and "Show us that".
this is because you can claim that they tampered it, in an effort to harm/collect more/frame you/whatever.
I know this because both my sisters are acocuntants and they've been taught this at the University.
I do not know what the situation is with the police, however, but i assume that similar reasoning would apply.
Slashdot Sig. version 0.1alpha. Use at your own risk.
Regardless of what kind of image SCO tried to paint in their press releases, the lawsuit against AutoZone appeared to be about AutoZone using other software actually belonging to SCO on a Linux host, not about AutoZone using Linux. If so, the outcome in the IBM case will have no effect on the AutoZone case, although SCO may decide to drop also the AutoZone lawsuit for other reasons (such as lack of sustained funding combined with losing the media campaign).
I spent quite a bit of time in Ireland, for example. The reason why European countries tend to have fewer civil liberties is because their citizens honestly believe they don't need them.
...being less anal in exercising them. The purpose of rights isn't to stop the police in solving crimes and being an ass, it's to stop harrasment and fishing expeditions. As long as I feel that they're doing their job, I don't mind cooperating above and beyond what I'm required by law. In the US, there seems to be an innate hostility towards authority. If it's not required by law, it's almost "forbidden" to accomodate them anyway. The world will not end, your rights will not cease to exist, 1984 will not become true if you do.
Besides, the Patriot Act and the whole Guantanamo Bay thing makes me doubt your rights are that good, should you try to exercise them. Of course, rights don't apply to people that we suspect the rights don't apply to. Try figuring that one out. And after seeing the recent events in Iraq, ths US should shut the fuck up about their civil liberties(*). Or maybe you really don't understand how that looks to the rest of the world?
(*) not applicable to Iraqis, foreigners in general, allies, non-US citizens, muslims, suspected terrorists et al. Any more you want to piss off?
In the Cold War, we needed the US. 9/11 could have brought us together. But I dare say that I don't think the US and Europe has ever stood further apart since WWII. On a political level, it hasn't come about yet. Ask the people.
Ask them about how they feel about the US, about going to war over WMDs that don't exist (The EU thought so too, but we didn't start a war over a belief). Ask the people of your allies if they're proud to have helped you conquer Iraq so you can torture your prisoners like Saddam did.
The US is coming across as a "holier than thou" nation, that in the end is just another thug (admittingly, like most other nations...) Keep it up, and you'll come off looking as the bitch in "Cruel Intentions". I haven't seen a fraction of the humility I'd expect after getting caught with your pants down.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Do you honestly believe any governmental system can be much different?
Do you honestly believe all governmental systems are the same?
So you are saying that all governmental systems are the same? So the US and its poodles have replaced one "shady", "perhaps amoral" government in IRAQ with another one, that's no better?
Next you'll be saying that the torture and rape perpetrated by Sadam's thugs is being continued by the US.
You'll be saying that the US govt is the same as the Nazis with it's concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay - come on get with it, concentration camps are so last century.- ok I'm making your point here.
BUT just because the US is run by xenophobic, oil funded, religious extremists, doesn't mean the whole world is.
There are better forms of government than the system that the US (+poodles) is trying to force on the rest of the world. Many European democracies are more democratic and less ruled by money than the Land of the Free. Our governments still lie and we do have the odd bent copper, but in general we live in far less of a police state than the US.
I've had several dealings with the police and they've always been very friendly and polite even when I've been unloading computers from the back of a car at 3am. This is in stark contrast to what I hear about the US police who seem to aggressively harass people for such subversive activities as walking. Jay walking, wtf is that? If I want to cross the street and it looks safe I cross, seriously I don't understand. I've even heard of several accounts of Europeans being harassed by US police for walking on pavements in residential areas - you need a permit or a car or something.
So yes I do believe governmental systems can be different and furthermore they should be different.