Slashdot Mirror
A Plea To Game Makers To Act Responsibly?
Thanks to AVault for its editorial discussing the responsibility videogame makers have to use their powers for 'good'. The author expresses concern about games' influence on the young: "My love of digital maiming is tempered by the fact that, at this stage of my life, I can tell right from wrong. I have a fully developed set of ethics. I wouldn't say my nine-year-old nephew has quite had the time to develop these tools." The article ends with the exhortation: "Developers and publishers, hear my plea: start injecting a strong sense of right and wrong into your stories. I don't want you to pull back on the gibs, I don't want anything more than a stronger sense of ethics and perhaps a small dose of moral fiber. Take into account the fact that kids are playing, no matter that they shouldn't be."
I'm sorry, but unless the kid is retarded or something, he knows the difference between right and wrong, at least when it comes to blowing people up and stuff.
Gee, maybe your 9 year old shouldn't be playing Grand Theft Auto. It's more the parent/guardian's responsiblity to ensure that their kids aren't playing violent games than it is the game makers.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
... Gamer finds god
So, should Quentin Tarantino take into account that kids are watching "Kill Bill", and Playboy similarly tailor itself to be kid-friendly? I don't think so.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
The author expresses concern about games' influence on the young
What the hell are the parents doing?!
Don't we get at least 2 of this type of article on this site per week? It seems like I am always reading the:
"It is the parents' job to teach their kids wrong and right, not the video games."
All these articles are good for is getting gamers upset. Call it Flamebait or a Troll or whatever, but these articles are getting Redundant.
http://www.tomandemily.com
Right and Wrong are abstract concepts.. leave the video game developers alone and plea with parents to control thier damn kids...
You don't let your 9 year old nephew watch porn.. and you shouldn't let him play Manhunt or GTA: Vice City..
EOF
There's always going to be violent video games. The problem is not that there aren't video games that have morality...look at the Ultima games...or the Star Wars ones. The problem is that kids are naturally curious about the games that are BAD. It doesn't matter how many good video games there are out there....kids are always going to find the one game that's evil. Really, there are only three solutions:
1) Forbid all video games that do not impose "correct" morality
2) Raise your children in an isolated bubble, never exposing them to anything that espouses "bad" morality
3) Let your children experience what they want, within limits, so long as you teach them what is right and wrong
You can let a kid play all the violent video games he wants; so long as he has a caring mother and father, he'll turn out OK....and if he doesn't have caring parents, if it's not GTA teaching him how to be a criminal, it'll just be something else. In short, bad parenting creates bad kids who have independent, unrelated desires to play "bad" video games and do "bad" things. Good parenting creates "good" kids who have the same desire to play "bad" video games but less chance of a desire to do "bad" things.
To all of the parents who are always whining "the video games are controlling my childen" I say: you have a thousand times more influence than any video game ever will...if your kids are turning out poorly it's because you're a shitty parent....stop trying to blame everyone else.
I don't understand why the author's article is so upset at this kid playing GTA. If his mom is raising him correctly, he should be able to cap grandmas all day long and still be a well-adjusted kid. If she's not, well, then he's got bigger things to worry about than a video game. Everyone just wants to bitch about the video game to show that they are MORALLY OFFENDED! You know what offends my morals? Watching a mother just dump her kid off in day care for the first 6 years of his life so she can drive a nicer car. I'd rather raise my kid on GTA than put him through that.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
That said, I really don't have a problem with developers and publishers making violent games. Similarly, I don't have a problem with publishers who distribute violent books. I don't shun museums for displaying various garish incarnations of St. Sebastian on their walls. I am one of the vast majority of people--young and old alike--who can distinguish fantasy from reality, and are able to appreciate that the character being crushed by a tank on the game screen is not a real person.
You'll find no lack of people here on Slashdot who played games like Smash TV, N.A.R.C., and Doom as a kid. Staggeringly enough, the vast majority of us are perfectly well aware of the fact that in the Real World, one does not drive a Ferrari at 100 mph on a bridge whilst mowing down junkies, firing rocket launchers, and gathering cash and drugs.
I'm tiring of those who advocate solving the problems of the few by restricting the options of the whole. Let us use our own judgement, for Pete's sake.
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Then the international corporations.
Then we might start childing games manufacturers.
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
Maybe it's me, but every time somebody comes out and wants the entertainment industry to use their powers to do something "good", I get this cold, cold feeling. These people would have wanted to keep Doom off of our computers (violence, blood, gore) and "Buffy" off of our screens (redhead lesbian Jewish witches as main characters, sex with vampires, S&M jokes). In fact, some of the worst parts of "Buffy" were when they tried to transport conservative morals: Remember when Buffy was in high school, sex somehow always had bad consequences? And don't even get me started on "Beer bad"...
There has to be room for adults and adult pastimes in the world. In the end, it is up to parents (which includes myself) to take responsibility for their children. The problem is not that his nephew wants to play the game -- that's only natural -- but that somebody's parents are letting his friends play it. Great. Do his friends get to read Playboy, too?
Stick the blame where it belongs and stop thinking about ways how you can reduce my choices as an adult.
Games are where the traditional fairytale style very straightforward plots have excelled in for years(actually, that's an insult against most classic fairytales, most of them have more depth than your basic game plot about a guy in a combat suit rescuing his girl).
games aimed at adults.. well, most of them have very basic plot settings aboug good versus evil as well. sometimes it's just the evil that triumphs over the 'good', but that's just reversed roles of stereotypes(basically what it is most of the time is that it's just a matter of skinning, wether the guys trying to slow the player down are cops or mafia).
personally, I'd hope there to be more character in the characters in games and not always be so black and white, THE WORLD ISN'T JUST GOOD VS. BAD. most of the time the 'BAD' guys have solid motives for their actions as well as the good guys can and have 'bad' motives (imho best, or worst depending on if it's real life or not, tragedies stir from a setting like this. everyone is doing the 'right'/'necessary' thing from their viewpoint but the events lead to catastrophe anyways).
Ever read old fairytales in their original forms? the "bad" getting what's coming to it is usually chopping the head off or something similar(and heck, the 'good guys' play very, very dirty sometimes). public executions and all that jizz.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I'd be pissed if they started trying to encourage me to be ethical in my entertainment. Take Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR) for example. It lets you be a totally evil jackwad, at first you get people saying oh you are naughty blah blah blah, but as the game goes on you can get evil partners who incourage you to be naughty. In fact if you keep the good guys around long enough they start turning evil with you. KOTOR would totally suck if they didn't let you enjoy being evil. How much fun would GTA be if everybody was calling you an asshole and sinner throughout the whole game.
Trust Your Technolust
I really think Adrenaline Vault should change its name to Viagra Vault. It seems like all the staff lately have had children or some kind of mid life crisis, and seen the 'error of their ways' I'm way over 30, and have kids, but it hasn't turned me into the moral saviour of the planet. My kids know that if they misbehave I will take time off work to follow them around and publicly embarrass them in front of their friends - that has a greater influence than any game, and any law the government can pass.
"Take into account the fact that kids are playing, no matter that they shouldn't be."
Take into account the fact that kids are playing, since their parents are not interested in parenting.
This one gang kept wanting me to join cause I'm pretty good with a bo staff.
If you are responsible for raising a child, please teach them that they will one day be entirely responsible for their actions and no one will be there to help them when they screw up. Also, let them know that, currently, you are responsible for their actions, and if their actions should cause you harm, they will be punished, punished so that they will wish they hadn't engaged in said actions. Ie. if they do something really stupid like kill or maim someone, they will regret it for the rest of their life.
Here's a couple more items to instill in their young minds:
That's a start. American youth have many more common mental/social deficiencies that need correcting, but those are some of the major ones off the top of my head.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Don't try to control developers. Make a market for us, and we'll be more than happy to fill it. Beg the Veggie Tales folks for a game if that floats your boat, or get a huge petition going for a game based on a movie, book, or whatever that you feel strongly parallels the values you'd like to teach.
Game companies exist in a fiercely competitive space. To keep people employed and to keep shareholders happy, there's not much room for skipping past whatever the most marketable material may be.
"Parents, my plea to you...get involved with your kids. Watch what they're playing, regulate what comes in and out of your household. Get to know your childrens' friends, see how they interact, notice if they will be good or bad influences on them. Don't buy MA games and then be amazed when it disgusts you.
Game retailers, my plea to you...don't sell MA games to minors, id them first. Most kids have licenses by 16 and can't buy those games until they're 18 anyways. If in doubt, don't sell it to them...you're not losing that much money. And nobody will mistake a 13 year old for someone who's of age, so cut the 'I thought he was old enough' crap."
Like it's THAT hard...
--trb
He makes an excellent point. Why not criticize the parent who let it happen.
When you play GTA, and you kill people, the police mercilessly chase you down. When you play Crazy Taxi, pedestrians magically jump right out of the way of your car so you cannot ever hit them. At the end of the day, GTA teaches you to avoid hitting pedestrians, and Crazy Taxi teaches you to drive in a straight line anywhere you go. GTA isn't teaching you right and wrong?
"Derp de derp."
Personally, I'm with you:
I emphatically disagree with the editorial in question. I don't think content creators should care about 'acting responsibly'. I think they should tell their story, paint their picture, try to entertain. If they're so irresponsibly bad, the market will tell them so, and show them the door. Social responsibility for content is not something any creator in any media should be concerned with as a matter of course.
However, social responsibility for industry business practices is something that needs more attention and positive action.
The problem with your analogies are that the MPAA's rating system is well understood, and local legislation in the U.S. dictates that magazines like playboy be kept behind the counter. If a 9 year old asks his mother to see an R movie or buy him a magazine from behind the counter at 7-11, she knows (more or less) what to expect - regardless of how that 9 year old might want to convince her otherwise.
What gaming needs is precisely that same thing: an honest attempt at achieving consumer awareness of content rating. It needs a system that actually communicates the sort of content provided by the media, so parents can decide for themselves what they want their children to see and play.
Parents have no idea wtf an 'M' rating means, and the ESRB either can, or chooses to, do nothing against retailers who don't restrict the sales of 'M' titles to minors. Hell, the ESRB doesn't even require retailers to post an education poster that breaks down game ratings for consumers the way the MPAA still does.
If the ESRB is unwilling to even try to educate consumers, or enforce its policies upon retailers - at the very least they could lift the MPAA's system wholesale, replace 'M' with 'R', and let us move on with life.
What the ESRB should do, is take a nod from satellite and cable content ratings, and simply spell out all the themes in question.
If the game has cartoon violence, say so on the box.
If the game has graphic realistic violence, say so on the box.
If the game has brief nudity, say so on the box.
If the game has sexual themes, say so on the box.
If the game deals with substance abuse, say so on the box.
The problem is, game publishers don't want that. They don't want 'R', 'graphic violence', or 'sexual themes' slathered across video game shelves. But why not? Are they afraid that parents might actually parent? Are they intentionally leveraging ingorance to drive game sales? What logic can there be for intentionally obfuscating their rating scheme and doing nothing against those retailers who ignore it?
The longer the ESRB pussy-foots around the problem, the more they make such questionable policies and decisions, the more steam Senator Lieberman builds up - and the closer we come to legislative intervention. And no-one: not the industry, not the consumer, not Senator Lieberman himself - wants that.
All these pressures would evaporate overnight if the ESRB would be honest with its consumers.
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
I was rereading the Hugo Winners Vol II last night, and in the introduction to "Gonna Roll Dem Bones", Isaac Asimov related a coversation he had with Fritz Lieber... in short, Lieber pointed out to Asimov that his stories had people who opposed the hero, but that he never had any villans. Asimov reasoned that it was because he tended to write a more cerebral sort of stoy, more about the conflict of ideas than anything else; and in that case, the a good story demanded reasonable, intelligent villans who did not see themselves as bad/evil, and were capable of explaining themselves and their motives clearly. While they opposed the heros of the story, they had (at least, by their own thoughts) good reasons for doing so.
This reminded me a lot of the role that Magneto eventually grew into in the X-Men comic books - an intelligent opponent who had what he thought were very good reasons for his actions. IMHO, this leads to a much deeper, more satisfying type of story than things like Star Wars, where the villans are villans because... well, just because, you know, they're evil. You never get any background on why they're acting the way they are.
If Asimov had written the Star Wars scripts, he'd probably have set up a situation where Palpatine saw the existance of the Jedi leading to the eventual development of a hereditary ruling class, the destruction of the Trade Federation, and an interminable galaxy-wide dark age of stagnation. A few scenes, a little bit of exposition, and voila! - Palpatine goes from being evil to being a tragic figure, someone who initially desires good, but who finds himself seduced into thinking that the only way to save the Trade Federation from the Jedi is to forge an Empire strong enough to resist them if they were ever to rise again...
"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgement." Job 32:9
Being in a gang, crew, or mafia can get you killed WAY too easily.
If you break the law, and the cops don't get you, and the FBI doesn't get you, the military will bring in tanks and run over you.
Never play with grenades in an enclosed space.
Molotov cocktails may be fun, but if you're not careful you can catch on fire.
Hookers take your money.
Doing a double backflip with a barrel roll off a cliff is cool... until the end.
25 rounds of ammunition seems like alot of ammo until you have 26 opponents.
Don't try to snipe people while standing on the sidewalk. You'll never see the billy club coming.
Busses are too slow to out run cop cars. Sports cars aren't heavy enough to run through cop cars.
You can't fly a plane without wings. At least not for very long.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
Things I remember from growing up:
Superman comics were going to make children tie bed sheets around our necks and jump off the garage roof. The A-Team was going to make children turn violent. Rock music was going to turn us into Satanists. Sweet alcoholic drinks were going to turn the young into alcoholics. The ice-cream man was really a slipping LSD into their ice-cream to turn them into addicts, but only if the punch given to them at Halloween didn't do it instead, and don't forget about all the pedophiles that were just waiting for children in every chat room.
In other words everything that is even remotely popular is somehow going to absolutely destroy the lives of children everywhere.
Articles like this are good for quiet news weeks. In a year or 2 they will be about something new that is also going to end life as we know it. (The evils of golf or something)
I would also hazard a guess that people who came from homes way too poor for them to have ever been exposed to DOOM, GTA etc, commit most of the violent crime.
Have you looked around at the game market recently? The problem isn't just as simple as "Well, don't let your kid play violent video games". The problem is that there's little ALTERNATIVE CHOICE. There are lots more violent games than non-violent ones and if you want your child to play video games you're limited to girl games (Barbie gets dressed up) or educational ones (Putt-putt goes to the moon).
:)
So it sorta makes it hard to find something for your kid to play.
Alternatively, he could just read a book or go outside and play. But do we really want to push this poor kid into sports?
You'll have to make PEOPLE ethical first and only. The artifacts we create are not unethical, it is people who are. Think about it.
On a side note, ethics does not equal "conforms with religious doctrine."
Please clean up your porn films, and use your porn powers for 'good'!
Take into account the fact that children are watching your porn films, no matter that they shouldn't be!
Won't you please think of the children!
There is one specific place this has to happen, and that is with the parents. However, there is something the parents need, and that is EDUCATION. And I place that squarely on the shoulders of not just the publishers but also those of the retailers.
Let's pick on Best Buy: Why is Eternal Darkness right next to F-Zero? Both are clearly rated... why are they together? Why are the Playboy specials in the "Special Interest" section of the DVD area there? And why are things like Lesbo Lickin' Vampires in the "Horror/Sci-Fi" DVD section? And why are all of these discs, in many cases, easily reachable by a three- or four-year-old?
I'm not saying the retailers need to create a beaded curtained back room where the "adult stuff" is at, but maybe the top shelf could be reserved for such things? Maybe flyers next to the games? Or, maybe, the publishers have to require that a ratings flyer be handed out with each and every video game sold.
I don't know. I know my kids will have their father watching over what they play at my house... I just worry about their future friends' families.
And, as an aside, maybe Nintendo should start pushing itself as the "kiddie" console and heavily hype that. There might be more money there, and capitalizing on a title they already have, than trying to get between MS and Sony...
Its up to the parents to do their job and there is nothing in the world that can resolve them of their responsibility. Frankly, I hate this "would someone please think of th children" crap we get to hear lately. Don't let your children play those games. Sue the vendors who sell them to your kids, but don't let every adult being in the country suffer by dumping down games to the "gooddoeers" vs "axis of evil" mentality.
Dear Mr President, hear my plea: start injecting a strong sense of right and wrong into your government.
I don't want anything less than the strongest sense of ethics and a massive dose of moral fiber.
Take into account the fact that kids are living here, no matter that they aren't making campaign contributions.
Anyway. GTA has an age restriction. Anyone under that age playing it is a criminal. No need to worry if the game will influence them the mere fact of them playing it makes them criminals. Lock them up and throw away the key.
Really what more can be done apart from age restrictions. Parenting? Wahahaaah. That would involve making sure parents know what that is. But if you got kids having kids and them wanting to be best buddies with their kids then parenting (stopping the child from doing stuff that is harmfull to them) is not going to happen.
Personally I don't like games like GTA because they are so goddamn unrealistic. Real criminals would be spending most of their money bribing everyone else to keep quiet while facing the real risk of each and every day either being bumped off by someone who thinks you are a threat or being arrested and spending the rest of your live in jail.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I'm making this plea to the porn industry to use their powers for good. Children are observing your product regardless if they should or not. You should include more examples of good and bad, right and wrong into your products. I would like to see a display of morals and use your products to teach our children. Does this example make it obvious enough how ignorant some of this stuff is getting? Some games are made for adults. Just because some get gets a hold of it, doesn't mean the creators should be "looking out for the children". It's not intended for their hands anyway. Blame the parents for not knowing what their children are doing or blame it on the fact that they are children and will do pretty much anything you tell them not to. It's not the game makers responsibility to censor their own creations because little Timmy might sneak off and play an M rated game.
Teach someone to use the net and they won't bother you for weeks; show them Slashdot and you may never see them again.
Almost all video games with a storyline are basic good vs. evil stories. A very small minority fit into the "being bad is good" catagory and those games are rated M by the ESRB and targeted for adults only. Why is a nine year-old being allowed to play such a game is the real question. And since when did Link defeating Gannon, the Avatar saving Britannia, Mario saving the Princess from Bowser and saving Black Mesa from an alien invasion become morally ambiguous?
Something like it exists in Star Wars Galaxies. There are perks for joining either side openly but the downside is you can now openly be attacked by the other side. So plenty of TKA (unarmed very though fighers) imperials and rebels but no doctors.
A good game with "evil" and "good" choices would not just make story choices but would make it really reflect in the game. A good character gets less money and loot (as he will ask for less or even wave a reward) but can sell it normal shops. An evil character gets more loot but has to sell it in places where he is not known or use a fence who as in real life offers far less.
A good character gets helped by the city militia, an evil character stands a good change of being arrested. A good character can't deal with shady characters (like buying stolen or illegal goods) an evil character can.
KOTOR did this really badly. It also didn't really reflect how hard it would be to be a true "good" jedi. One act of evil after all should be enough to make you a dark jedi. The most obvious was the trial of the murderer in the fish place. Very obvious dark and light choices yet no dark or light points awarded.
But your GTA comment tells it all, you want to act like a criminal without being treated like one. What next a formula 1 game without that whole nasty having to compete thing? A shooter where the enemy doesn't shoot back? A business simulation without money? A flightsim without crashes perhaps?
To me games like GTA would actually start to be fun if they included far more of the real effects of being a criminal. Where no one with an ounce of survival instinct would think of shooting at a cop. Dumb criminals do that. Smart ones know that 1 yr in the slammer is better then being known as a copkiller. You might not make it to jail.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Although many people are (quite rightly) pointing out that kids shouldn't be playing GTA3 and other mature-rated games, that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem.
It seems quite evident to me that many parents are still not aware of the age ratings in games, and that there is still a general perception that Games Are For Kids.
So taking that into account, I do think it's worth the industry as a whole doing a little more to ensure parents are better educated. Sure, it's not Rockstar/Take 2's fault that thousands of nine-year olds all over the world got GTA3 for their birthday, but they should be concerned, and they ought look at ways in which they can help, otherwise they'll end up with legislation forced onto them.
Please note that I am not suggesting that developers change their games, although that said I did wish that Rockstar had done a 12-certificate version of GTA - the basics of the game (nicking cars and driving about recklessly) were a lot of fun and generally suitable for children tens years and older. I don't think it would have lost a great deal if they'd toned down the violence just a little bit and taken out some of the more adult themes.
If they had made such a version, my kids wouldn't be barred from playing it...
Not sure if this is much better. Surely the right wing extremist might have a thing or two to say about it. Oh well in the mean time. Hmmmm Olsen Twins.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
A number of studies show that children understand the difference between fantasy and reality at a much younger age than most people seem to think. Sorry I don't have any handy, but they aren't that old. You can find it if you can wade through all the other ones that decry video game violence :)
But of course, it's the parent's job to teach the kid a sense of moral responsibility before they give them access to violent video games. I don't have kids but my brother has 4, and I know that before they get to the point of playing video games more controversial then "Reading with Froggy" or whatever, they have a strong understanding of right and wrong.
If this isn't the case, it's the parent's fault, not EA's.
That said, I defintely feel there is something wrong with the amount and vugarity of violence in games, especially when considering that this is an ongoing trend. Are we kidding ourselved that the same human instinct that drove the Romans to kill people for sport in an arena is not the same one which keeps me glued to the screen playing Far Cry?
Perhaps as a species we are cursed that whenever a society reaches a level where we no longer have to struggle, people turn to ugly and vicious pursuits.
The meek shall inherit the earth, in 3 by 6 plots. - Lazerus Long
It is not the job of EA Games etc., to bring up your nephew pal. It is the job of his parents and possibly yourself. A sense of personal responsibility all round please. Leave the rest of the world out of it.
I agree with you completely! Do you happen to have references to quotes concerning children from all those people you listed?
"Wendie Jo Sperber was the fat girl running down the highway with vaseline in her butt." - A.R.
Often, people can tell right from wrong and just don't care. I don't think it's computer games' responsibility to address the secondary issue of people who do wrong knowing it's wrong. These same people have no problem doing something wrong as long as they are not punished. Games often attempt to convey the sense that an action was wrong, but in those cases, it's usually just the wrong way to go about something because it doesn't help you achieve the game goal, or else you "die." If you do something morally wrong and the game rewards you, then you've succeeded.
The debate over "whose version of morality" would be interesting if games were more nuanced. As it is, most of the moral choices you face while playing a game are pretty simple.
I have a theory that because Christianity forbids judgement in favor of consequences, people have an idea that the moral good is determined by what happens to you when you do it. If nothing bad happens to you, then everything's OK and you're still a good person. I'm from a Hindu background, where the emphasis is the other way. If you do enough bad things, then you're a bad person. Evil. No way around it. Thus it's important to protect who you are by taking only right actions.
RaviWhen the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
First off let me say that in no way is it up to game developers to put this kind of content in their product if it doesn't call for it. The gaming industry isn't here to raise your child...that is the parents job.
... evil. But that is what makes it fun right? We can play this game and do things that we wouldn't dream of doing in real life. So, in a way this game clearly defines what *not* to do in real life. Isn't that educational in a slightly squewed sense? How hard is it to teach a child that that kind of thing is only ok in video games? It doesn't seem like that big of a leap to me. (not that I'm saying kids should play GTA...god no).
Now then, I don't necessarily agree with the author, but his article has sparked my interest. Not so much in the way of what content should be acceptable in games or that games need to have a clear set of what is right and what is wrong and focus on the 'right'. But in the way that the majority of games out there already *do* have this present...it's just subtle. They don't come straight out and say "This is good! Do this!", "This is bad! Don't do that!", but the elements are all there.
Take GTA... there is no doubt that what you do in this game is bad. It is unethical, it is unmoral, it is just
A better example might be Ninja Gaiden. You play Ryu, a *good* bad ass who is avenging the death of his family and putting a stop to evil in the world. Ultimately that is what is happening in the story. On some level does this not say: "Fight for what you believe in. Don't let bad things happen." Granted the way you carry this out in the game is purely fantasy...but can't the values be applied to life?
The trick is making the connection to what is already present in the games and applying it to real life situations. Let's think who would do this? The parent! If the parent is doing their job they will know the content of the games their child is playing. All it takes is sitting the kid down for 15 min to discuss what is being said / done in the game and why this is or is not acceptable in reality. Kids are smart, they'll understand.
With all that said, could game producers emphasise this more in their games? Absolutely. It would be wonderful to clearly define what is right and wrong. In an ideal world there would be no gray area.
Is it up to game producers to do this? Absolutely not! We don't see this in movies, or books, or TV...why should video games be different. It is the parents job to educate the child, not the rest of the world.
I apologize if my thoughts came out all broken, but I'm in a super hurry...
-Mark
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.
Notice I didn't say...watching a mother just dump her kid off in day care for the first 6 years of his life so she can afford to support him.
I was criticizing the parents who would rather forget about the kids and go after what makes them happy...and where I grew up, there were PLENTY of people like this, and you could tell from the way their kids came out. The point I'm making is that parents already have enormous influence over their children, and it's just plain stupid to watch people bitch and moan about the content of video games when they're not actually spending time with the kids.
I wasn't trying to criticize parents who are already under stress...the point is this: relying on television, daycare, and video games to do YOUR JOB as a parent is not going to produce healthy, well-adjusted kids, and no amount of censorship will ever change that.
But there is another kind of evil that we must fear most... and that is the indifference of good men.
Is known for its "family friendly" system...
Now name the PS/2 kid games.
The XBox kid games.
There's alot less there.
Like Uru and Myst? That's a market that I think will (or at least, should) replace it.
I loved Lemmings, though. None of the ports/freeware ripoffs I've seen even come close.
A normal kid does not derive ethical codes from conduct he sees in a video game. Period. If your kid is an exception, the solution lies in fixing your parenting, not in instigating sweeping reform in the video games industry.
Talk about a scapegoat... why was this editorial even posted?
And if you do a search on Teen, Mature and Adults Only titles you get:
474 titles for the PS2 (54%)
305 titles for the XBox (60%)
181 titles for the Gamecube (45%)
And if you use the following settings:
where ratings are like Early Childhood, Everyone, Kids to Adults, Teen, Mature, Adults Only; descriptors are not like Animated Blood, Blood, Blood and Gore, Cartoon Violence, Crude Humor, Drug Reference, Fantasy Violence, Intense Violence, Mature Humor, Mature Sexual Themes, Mild Animated Violence, Mild Cartoon Violence, Mild Fantasy Violence, Mild Language, Mild Lyrics, Mild Realistic Violence, Mild Violence, Nudity, Partial Nudity, Sexual Violence, Strong Language, Strong Lyrics, Strong Sexual Content, Suggestive Themes, Tobacco Reference, Use of Alcohol, Use of Drugs, Use of Tobacco, Use of Tobacco & Alcohol, Violence;
You get:
265 - PS2 (30%)
119 - XBox (23%)
115 - Gamecube (28%)
All children should know the difference from right and wrong and that what they see in in video games is not real. The same is true for movies. Any who think they are real has a serious problem
just declare children playing games illegal and start a war on them?
The whole "Beer bad" thing is hilarious, i pointed out durring DARE in 4th grade how riduculous some situation was. We were watching an episode of family matters and there was some rooftop party where this huge punch bowl got spiked with like a fifth of something, and after having two sips or so urkle was dancing precariously around the ledge of the building etc... You undermine your whole message when kids realize the real world isn't so cut and dried, especially when they see their friends, who aren't crazy bums on the street, or criminals, or bad people, socially smoking pot or drinking.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Some of the best games are morally vague for example Black and White. Thats not cool to have to make developers compromise their creative ideas just because kids are playing the games that are not rated for them. Its like asking Hollywood to make rated R movies less rated R simply because kids are sneaking in. I think there needs to be stricter enforcement of the game rating system. Its not the developer's fault if the store or parents are not doing their job.
Have fun, =Otto(matic)
I remember reading about Richard Garriott when he had just finished Ultima III. With a kind of shock he realised that people of all ages spent 100-200 hours each on the game. During that time the game designer has a definite influence on the gamer. He didn't mind most designers filling that time with mindless violence, but he wanted to do something more constructive with it. So he designed the set of ethics that became the foundation of Ultima IV. This made Ultima IV one of the most beloved games of all times. Actually, I am not in agreement with most of the ethics Garriott defined, but I do feel that the influence Ultima IV had on people was a lot more healthy than most other games offered.
I expect this same person to write an essay on how porn stars should act responsibly because he found his son masturbating. D'uh.
i do not know the nephew, but take a look around: most younger people grew up with realistic "violent" games: wolfenstein, doom, quake, just to name a few. older people grew up with unrealistic "violent" games like mario bros, turrican, mortal combat. and since the first computergame that involved "killing" (at least some pixels) saw the face of earth, this discussion goes on and on... so, we've got "violent" computer games for a long time now, and since a long time they are a very vital part of children's subculture. but did we notice any effect on the children playing these games? they're at least two generations of hardcore gamers around us now, the third playing pokemon. there are no such effects.
and please, do not refer to things like columbine or something, cos you do not have a clue why such single massacres happend, and if you believe marylin manson (or maniac mansion, i think nurse edna is much more frightening than marylin) and john carmack are the reason for several children beeing "evil", you should spend more time with your children and don't just shut em up with a tv set. btw, i can't remember bush playing quake or listening to manson (what's your frag count, georgy boy? i bet it's higher than mine, but i fragged just some mdl models).
beer as in "free beer"
saving Black Mesa from an alien invasion
no no, that was me. i dunno about this mario-princess business of yours, but at black mesa, that was me. i did it twice, just to be sure.
beer as in "free beer"
That's a pretty good list. But we all know that Christ had kids with Mary of Magdeline.
(Sponsored by cheeseSource for President 2012)
Another great game in that style was 'Marble Drop' . It might not appeal to your typical video gamer (Gamespot gave it a mediocre score), but I loved it...
I'm guessing it could have a comeback, if Maxis would release it with a level-maker, and a way to share levels online.
These days, software seems to be 'games' or 'educational', without that middle ground that we used to have. (When's the last time you saw a Broderbund product on the shelf that wasn't something like 'math for 4th graders' or similar.)
And that's not to say that you have to be non-violent for educational games -- the little hunting bit from Oregon Trail had more action than most games out in its day.
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.