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Area 51 Hackers Map Buried Surveillance Network
advair writes "There's a story on SecurityFocus about a pair of Area 51 'hackers' who discovered a buried network of wireless motion sensors on the public land surrounding the "operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada." Using a frequency counter and a GPS receiver, they tracked down and logged 30 - 40 of the sensors, before the FBI and Air Force raided one of them, and questioned the other. Now one of the guys has been charged with a federal crime for allegedly removing one of the devices that was protecting a base that doesn't officially exist."
My bet is area 51 is just a deco, think about you set up a "base" you plant a few "good" stories for the conspiracy theorist to love, you play the whole thing up. you have a real base some where else. Every one will flock to area 51, then you do your real work at area 52 (or what ever they might call it) I also doubt there are any extra terrestrial research going on in the government, think about it you need the best of the best to even think of starting it, and the government well its the government what other insult do I need to lob at it.
Area 51 is probably just a few buildings there to keep the amount of people to perpetuate the image that area 51 is real.
This people probably have fallen for it, and the government might have just planted the motion sensors to keep them busy, they the person steal one I don't know, but either way the government sorta unofficial clams it, and the conspiracy theorists will go wild.
Nowhere does it mention that one of these things was seized from the guy. What happened to assumed to be innocent until proven guilty? For all they know the thing could have broken, batteries run flat, someone drove over it, etc. Or for the conspiracy nuts - they removed it themselves just to accuse the guy.
Yes, there IS another base located somewhere else. There are several bases from which the Aurora is flown, for example.
But it's not smart to play with these people. You could disappear and no one would ever see you again, alive or dead. Trust me, I know what I am speaking of.
Do NOT fuck with these people, if you care about your future.
Yes, Area 51 has always been a "real base", just a military base (secretive like most military bases out there).
My guess is that they're conducting experiments and tests on areas they don't want the public to see (WMDs, biological/chemical warfare, etc.) Conspiracy theorists take the tight security and wrap it around inplausable stories, which the government probably doesn't mind (better having the crackpots think they know what's going on than important people ACTUALLY knowing what's going on).
Bob is still around and doing physics privately. He still insists when asked that what we worked was true. Personally I beleive him. When a person comes out and says stuff like he did fully knowing that his life wil be ruined and never asks for a dime then he deverses some kind of respect or admiration?
There's no such thing as "public land" -- the government owns every single bit of land in the country that's not owned privately (and even then -- there's property tax)
It also doesn't matter if the DOD name was on it or not, it doesn't belong to you, so why take it? Basic theft.
During the Clinton era it was acknowledged that Area 51 (Dreamland, Groom Lake, etc) existed. This was about the same time that Area 51 buffs reported a dramatic decrease in activity at and around the base. It was acknowledged in a very generic manner, but was acknowledged none the less.
Supposedly, the reason for the abandoning of the base was because the radiation from atomic tests wasn't going the "China Syndrome" way, back into the earth, but coming back up (area 51 was the 51st grid on a map used for nuke testing).
I haven't followed it for a while, but last I heard, the experts were pointing at Arizona and New Mexico as the new locations for many, mini, Area 51s.
END OF LINE.
Why should any government decide what I am allowed to know?
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
There was a television special recently about this. What I found even more interesting was a different security compromise.
A private investigator was hired to watch the airport in Las Vegas and he observed which cars came and went on a frequent basis. He was eventually able to deduce which cars' owner were spending the day at Area 51.
At that point, it became a simple matter of just following the cars to a plush neighborhood. When he went to knock on the door and asked about Area 51, they said "no comment" and shut the door in his face. One would think that just mentioning Area 51 would be enough to inspire curosity from the non-involved.
An once-insider agreed to secretly meet with them doing the whole inside-a-hotel with blured-face and altered-voice routine. He examined maps and photos and said they were accurate. He also said that there were no UFOs at Area 51, and that the big secret was the abusive politics and unsafe worker conditions.
Guess Area 51 scooby gang missed the television special on S4, where the anti-gravity from borrowed UFOs go on.
There is no such thing as "The Government"
In this country, you and I are the government.
If the government owns something, you and I own it.
Too many ppl have fallen for the ignorant notion that there is a discrete entity named "the government" that can help or hinder them.
In this post on the Area 51 site linked to from the article, Joerg Arnu (one of the "hackers" in the article) claims that Poulsen lured him into the interview under false pretenses, then refused his requests not to use the interview, hung up on him, and didn't return any further messages. I haven't read much of Poulsen's stuff, but is this typical of him?
Juiced? Or Not?
No offense, but go back to basic civics.
The government is not "owned" by the people. The representatives in government are elected by the populace, all save the President, who is elected by the Electoral College, and only the Electoral College (the popular vote, in the long run, means dick in the Presidential election).
The government owns its own property, the government owns its own buildings. I'm sure that in a communal sense, sure, since our tax dollars paid for it, we may own some small part of it, but effectively? No.
RTFA? How about you RTWC (read the whole comment), he says exactly that a few lines down.
Public, means accessible and for the public good, not for YOUR good alone. For instance, a community park has a fence surrounding a dangerous sink hole. You are NOT allowed to go in and remove a section of the fence just because it is on public land even if you intended to go back in and replace the section.
For several years, whoever happens to be President of the US at the time has made an annual Presidential Determination to prevent "disclosure to unauthorized persons of classified information concerning that operating location." Here is Bush's Determination from last year :
0 030916-4.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/09/2
I know a girl took a week long trip around area 51 for her honeymoon. Weird, huh? Stayed at all the tourist trap hotels around there. At one point, she and her husband had a picnic in "Area 51" about 100 yards into the desert past a "no trespassing" sign. 20 minutes into their picnic a jeep pulled up and a guy told them to get the hell out of there. *Something* is there, something worth having the surveillance and personnel to protect to that level.
Vonnegut was right: Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are, "It might have been."
While I know that often plea deals are important in order to garner testimony about organized crime or other criminal activities this sort of case illustrates (or at least might illustrate since I don't actually know who is telling the truth) the potential dangers. Bizarelly I find myself in agreement with Ashcroft, plea bargains should be *only* be offered in return for becoming an informant, it should be banned (legally and not just by the AGs rules) otherwise.
For instance in this case the government has *every* encouragment to file suit against this guy even if they have no evidence. The threat of prison time is scary enough that any normal person will take a plea agreement accomplishing what the government really wants, stopping them from investigating area 51 (it would not surprise me at all if part of his probhation is not to even passively map the sensors, or even go close to area 51). The plea bargain allows the government to exercise considerable power by the threat of legal action without any real chance of court review.
Moreover, as far as I'm concerned giving someone a deal for pleading guilty should be a violation of the 5th ammendment. After all a plea bargain is a reduced sentence in return for not insisting on your innocence. Or put another way in the presence of a plea offer there is a penalty for insisting on your innocence. Sure it isn't technically punishing someone for refusing to incriminate themselves but this is certainly within the spirit of the ammendment, if the implicit privacy argument is considered a valid constitutional principle than this sort of broad interpratation of the 5th is perfectly reasonable as well. I really can't see any pragmatic difference between a law which penalizes someone for not testifying to their guilt (which presumably could only apply if the individual was convicted) and a general practice of giving significantly reduced sentences in return for the admisson of guilt.
Some people will protest that my position would rob the judicial system of discretion. Not at all, judges would still have plenty of discretion to give a light sentence. The change would just stop penalizing individuals for insisting on innocence. I also think it is only because upper class white kids always recieve plea bargains in drug cases (while poor black ones often don't) that the public is willing to stand for things like mandatory minimums and extreme drug sentences. I doubt most of the prosecutors are overtly racist but many people's gut reaction to seeing a well dressed white kid busted for drugs is a good kid who screwed up while a black kid in baggy pants and so forth is far more likely to be thought of as a bad person. Sure, the problem will still exist in sentencing but at least the system will be a little better and more open (it is easier to see that a judge is racially biased in his deciscions because everything is public record while often the surrounding facts to a plea bargain aren't so publicly accesible).
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
Using the latitude and longitude garnered from wikipedia, and terraserver, we can clearly see that this place is an airport. Area 51
Apparently if a base doesn't exist, it is free from abiding by EPA regulations.
Actually, whether a base officially exists or not, it is usually exempt from EPA regulations. That's one of the problems that some cities (San Antonio, Austin, etc...) are having redeveloping old military bases into high-tech centers, airports, and whatnot. After the military closes the base, and the civilians go in to redevlop, there's all sorts of nasty crap left over in the ground because the military is exempt from many EPA regulations.
But don't blame the military, blame your representatives in Congress. They love exemptions, and have even exempted themselves from many federal laws, like labor laws, ADA, and others.
World's tallest building rises in the desert
I would have been pissed if some yahoo started messing with them, too. After all, they are there to ensure that no one vandalizes the equipment or gets fried by the 21,500 volts that exist across the base insulator of the antenna. We were most afraid of some BASE jumper getting killed while trying to climb the tower. In LORAN the whole tower is "hot" instead of a small radiator at the top.
And if they broke one, I'd have to fix it.
The problem with the USPS is that they use their government-granted monopoly on US domestic mail to subsidize their international shipping division. It makes it hard for companies like DHL, FedEx and UPS to compete internationally.
But they still make sure that they run the whole thing at a loss, that way they can go to congress to get more funding whenever they want. They can also increase domestic postage whenever they want. The whole thing is a big scam.
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
The problem with area 51 is that it's become notoriously cliche to suspect something 'spooky' is going on. Mention aliens in full seriousness to anyone, and chances are they'll laugh in your face. It's a myth, and a mighty good one, and perfect to mislead every ol' shmuck. Guys with trucks and such are probably employed only for the purpose of keeping myth alive just to give the people something to care about. Kinda like an amusement park with AK-47's. Besides, if everyone's eyes are focused on this red herring, then the real stuff is still flying under the radar.
They were messing with stuff that doesn't belong to them. It eve said right on it that it was government property. Just because you find something on public land, doesn't mean it's yours to mess with. I work on public land (state university) and thousands of cars are parked here every day. Doesn't give you the right to go in any of them and mess with them, you'll be arrested and/or beaten up if you do. They are still the property of the person that holds the title, despite being parked on public land.
The funny thing is how much businesses come to believe that FedEx can do no wrong. Mostly they're excellent, but there are some areas of the country where they're NOT the best, and some businesses refuse to listen to you when you tell them what the "conditions on the ground" are.
I had a friend who was a pharmacist at a hospital in northern Michigan (UP, Keweenaw area). He ordered some medical supplies from a place, and said "ship them UPS overnight. *DO* *NOT* ship them FedEx." Well, they shipped them FedEx overnight.
About 5 days later the boxes were still not there. He called them and said "You shipped them FedEx, didn't you?" They had, and (as he knew) FedEx in that area is not guaranteed. They weren't going to drive 180 miles round trip from the depot to deliver one stinkin' package. They put all the boxes on a pallet, and when there's enough to bother, then they send out a truck.
UPS, OTOH, has a local depot, and plenty of packages come into the area, so they have no problems delivering overnight (though there is a cutoff line, way out on the peninsula, where they don't guarantee 10:30 delivery anymore).
This was 20 years ago, I'm betting FedEx has a local presence now, but I know there are still parts of the country where there are better choices than FedEx.
This story always comes to mind when I'm watching the commercials where the guy didn't use FedEx, so the package is delayed.
I live about 100 miles north of Groom Lake. They test all kinds of things like microwave weapons to knock out communications. Once or twice a month my cell phone squelches worse than any CB you've ever heard. This lasts for a few hours. I've also seen unmanned vehicles flying in the area, some going almost faster than the eye can track them.
It is reasonable to assume that military science is extremely advanced in many more areas than simply aerospace. Indeed, with even the slightest use of reasonable thought, it is perfectly logical to assume that almost all of the technology which Slashdotters and the public at large consider 'New' and get all excited over, is really stone-age by comparison to what could be available if only it were allowed. --That in fact, the reality we all live in is a total farce -which for some reason- nearly everybody seems happy enough to play along with.
.
.
"Oooh. Digital paper." "Oooh. Bigger hard drives." "Oooh. Internal combustion."
This stuff is only impressive in the way that withheld candies are impressive to children. To pretend that we are actually pushing the boundaries of human knowledge and capability with any of this crap is nothing short of willfully stupid.
"Yeah? So what?" --Some might ask. "We know this is how it is, but there's national security to consider."
Er. . . Well, no, that's a very thin excuse. This goes far beyond secret planes which fly faster. Technological advance has happened in areas and directions which go amazingly far beyond a simple question of keeping the better airplanes out of the hands of the commies. (Which in itself is an incredibly stupid concept which again, everybody on the planet plays along with.)
The war in Iraq is an excellent example.
Saddam and his forces could have been removed with very few soldiers with much greater efficiency and cleanliness than was done. The kind of technology available and in use today makes it possible to shut down a city or a stronghold, walk in and murder or abduct the people you want to murder or abduct with ease and simplicity. The only reason to commit giant forces with archaic weapons and broken, (and some would say, nonexistent) tactics to a giant overseas ground war is this. .
To create a huge, infernal endless war designed to kill millions of people and absorb billions of dollars in goods. --There is a LOT of money and power to be had from big messy wars. Understanding how this is true and where the power comes from and goes to, who it benefits and why, is the first step to grasping how the real world works.
Consider this. .
One of the other directions military research has gone in has been toward that of mind control and mood altering. In fact, this could easily be considered the holy grail of military science; when you can control a population, then the need for guns and tanks is instantly nullified. --And anybody who has any level of competency in research, and who has the courage to look at frightening possibilities rather than seek comfort in ridiculing others while avoiding the pain of being ridiculed themselves, (and geeks have strong sore spots regarding this given their experiences through life; and isn't it curious that those most able to see through the veil are also those targeted with some of the most deliberate and cruel social programming?) --Anybody who knows how to question and has the balls to do so, knows that the holy grail of mind control was discovered long ago, and is widely implemented today across all strata of society in many different forms.
Secret planes that go fast?
The military industrial complex, (to use an old but accurate term), has more than secret planes in its bat belt!
The 'other' effects of cell phones upon the human brain and cognitive function were not only well understood, but were deliberately designed and were the primary reason for the proliferation of the wireless technology. --And population control through EM is only one way; combined with chemicals in our food, the direct psychological programming in advertising, music, television and movies -through all strata of media- combine to provide a means of near total control of humanity.
Many of you laugh. Would it be mind control if you feel that knee-jerk desire?
At $2.45 a gallon and 3 hours of driving I just find a different company to order from instead of fooling with FedX.
They do have a deal though that you can sign up for a preauthorized drop point, either at your house or another location that can solve my problem of them wanting a signature, but I haven't gotten around to doing it yet.
Use this phrase, I've found it useful:
"If you ship FedEx, the package will be refused."
Oh, I don't like UPS, in fact I prefer FedEx over UPS. But if I have my choice, I'll pick USPS, or Airborne Express. I've had the least amount of trouble with them. USPS handled almost all my 150 or so eBay sales shipments a few years ago when I was cleaning out, and no package was reported damaged. One of the five that I sent UPS (buyer's choice) was damaged. Every package I get via USPS looks like it was just picked up at the shipper, carried by hand 20 feet and placed in my box.
But as has been mentioned, I'm sure there are depots where they are understaffed and underpaid, and stuff gets abused. Probably true of all companies.