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WiFi Lifeline For Nepal's Farmers
bahree writes "BBC is running a pretty interesting story on how yak farmers in the mountains of Nepal, where there are no phones or other means of communication, are using wireless Internet technology to keep in touch with their families, buy/sell livestock and exchange vetinerary tips."
This is something that ought to be used in more locales than just Nepal - imagine how this can be put to good use in any underdeveloped nation. Solar-powered WiFi networks and computers, teaching reading and math, and even more advanced topics. Using freely downloaded and distributed learning materials, or learning materials created by teachers.
--I am Sun Tzu of the Borg. Resistance is feudal.
First India, and now Nepal....makes us Americans feel we are in the stone age.
Not even smoke signals anymore?
Damnit! this "environmentally friendly" movement has gone too far!
-Grump
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
I wonder if they use IRC over their wireless so they can have a good "yak"...
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
how do these people get their electricity?
I wonder what they do for power for two days?
Sounds like these people are very remote. It makes me wonder how they are even getting power for their PCs and network gear. Solar? Generators?
It's amazing the good that has come out of the internet. This setup may even save someone's life at some point since these people can now "call" for help.
A common misconception is that farmers are low tech hillbillies. In the real world more the 70 percent of farms are "online". Farmers increasingly use databases of yeild / irrigation / fertilizer to optimize their operations. Same thing goes for ranchers, where the daily milk output of dairy cattle is tracked against the feed going in. When output drops over time, the cow is sold for prize beef (dairy cattle are held to a high standard).
I would even venture to say that there is a higher percentage of farms that are internet enabled then classical brick and mortar business
Just my 2 cents
Colin McNamara
Senior Network Engineer
Openwave Systems
"The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little longer"
Well, this is interesting. Here is some potentially sensitive equipment placed in a rural, relatively inaccessible region. Wonder what happens if something breaks, like, say the transmitter/ap they are using? Forgive me for the paranoid thoughts, but working in support for quite some time, i have learnt that the worst things happen to you when you least expect them.
...it isn't April 1st already, is it?
Honey, I shrunk the Cygwin
Uh-oh, my tinfoil hat is on and my gun is loaded and cocked. Four consecutive Slashdot stories without a single comment... what gives?
All your yak are belong to us.
Insert witty Slashdot sig here.
they could yak about yaks with voip!
yak about yaks with VOIP!
or how about yak cam 24/7 live feed!
mmmm yak
...yak driving?
Never argue with an idiot, he'll just lower you to his level and beat you with experience.
Why don't they just set them up with mobile phones? Cheaper, easier to use, etc. Of course, not as flashy and newsworthy as Internet.
If there are no phone lines or other infrastructure, where are they getting their electricity for all this WiFi from? Do they all have solar cells as well?
Obligatory Ren and Stimpy reference
I thought everything in the post was good, except the part about it being interesting.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
luckily now if anyone were to try to invade nepal, they could quickly mobilize their army...
He say 1 and 1 and 1 is 3, got to be good lookin' cause hes so hard to see...
Electricity in some of these areas is not easy to come by. The valley below Mt Everest shares a hydro electric generator via a community coop. The electricity amounted to slightly over one 60 watt lightbulb per house.
There are computers to be found. They do have Internet all the way to the Everest base camp now. But most of the people in the region are living very simple lives. Collecting yack dung to burn for heat and fertilizer.
Great people if you ever get a chance to visit.
aruge about who gets FP?
Oh yeah FP!
my father taught at a nepalese school as research for his thesis, and some of the comments from the students, about how long it takes to get to school, are astounding.
how about 1 weeks walk plus a 2 hour helicopter ride for one student, 3 day walk and 2 day bus ride for another. this is not just a handful of students either, very remote communities.
Many move to the school, and do not return home until completed years later, simply because it takes so long, by the time they got home they would have to return to school!
so, this has to be good for farmers in similar situations.
Few questions::
(1) How were the farmers 'educated' to use the technology?
(2) I can understand voice/video conferencing, but the article mentions they are able to send and receive 'email' messages. Are these messages localised? as in what language are they in and what about the interface to send/receive these messages?
Those guys may be dirt-poor according to our standards, but they sure use technology to better their lives, unlike us.
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Actually, we should give them condoms.
Seriously. Raising the food production only encourages the population to grow larger. Encouraging birth control decreases the number of hungry children.
omgwtfbbq................fsadfgadsfwaitwaitwait
...do you lose your WiFi Lifeline or your life? Lord knows that kind of shit happens in the filthy islam infested shithole known as the continent of asia and the middle east.
High-tech technology is exactly what will help out these places. Simple example. Before the advent of mobile phones in India, there was a waiting list of upto 4 years to get a landline. This bred lots of courruption and black-marketeering. Even once you got a landline, you were at the mercy of the local linesman, who would disconnect your line if you didn't pay him his additional monthly salary (usually a bottle of cheap, local rum/scotch). Further, everytime it would rain, your line would go dead. That meant another bribe. Then one day they decided to launch mobile phone service in India.
Average time to get a mobile phone connection: 24 hours
Major Network outages (affecting more than one telecom circle - one circle is roughly the size of a city): ZERO
Look on linesman's face when he realizes HE's going have to chase after YOU to sell his shitty landline connection: Priceless
That's one example, since I'm into feeding the Trolls, here's another:
Electronic Voting in India, which has already been covered in slashdot.
Technology helps everybody, especially the poor. No you can't feed a honeless person a microchip, but I can promise you that it helps ensure that food reaches that person cheaper and faster than before.
My Favourite Meme
GNU/yak
brent is an oaf. oafaltine. Oafeverdoes. Frodoaf.
1st anon tsop
postus firstionio
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait
made me the first, eh?
You're an idiot.
.. greatly improves the qualkity of life for these people.
..; people would kline up to use it .. now many have them and use it to talk to family (ask for money?), get medical help, and also get valuable information about supply demand .. as in you find out that someone is purchasing your crops and you take it directly to them ..saving you time/money/energy and reducing waste.
This solution is cheaper than farm equipment which also requires fuel (which is expensive).
This "hi-tech solution"
I am originally from a developing country and a lot of my family depend on farming. When the first cell phone was brought into the village
You have simply no idea how important improved communication is to quality of life.
can eye post now??
don't forget the pr0n
wtg?
The Whigs were a political party, folks.
Do they run their boxes on gas-powered generators?
Well I guess being that high getting line of sight is not a problem.
This is pretty cool/amazing: People on the top of mountains with WiFi equipment attached to pieces of trees can get high-speed (I assume it's high-speed since the article mentions video conferencing) Internet access. However, at the same time, it's kind of amazing how people in the United States can't even get high-speed Internet access when they're a couple hundred miles from a major city. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? I mean, it's great to see people making these kinds of advances, but this just goes to show you that maybe we need to take a serious jump on to the WiFi bandwagon, or we need to rework some of our existing technologies.
(P.S. "we" = United States -- Since I don't live anywhere else, I can't speak for anyone else.)
I really think there is a large market for WISPs in 3rd world / developing countries. I really want to get involved and learn more about mesh networking, and deploying large scale wireless, etc. Can anyone recommend any good reading on the subject? (I've seen some recent /. articles, but not much else).
Uh-huh
There have been no comments in several hours. Did I miss the apocalypse again?
Search first, ask questions later.
I'm a tipical British student with the standard pour education asosiated with such. How can the farmers comunicate with no line of site. There aer mountains in Nepal!!!1
Must use GNU! Anyway, I'm happy that WiFi is being so widely adopted however why do I get the feeling someone is doing this because they can? There is no phone and yet there is supposedly a stable source of power? Possible, yes, likely, no. ANd there people are supposed to be able to buy a computer.... heck, if memory serves me correctly, the Nepalese dollar is worse than Canada's...
Back in March there was a bit of discussion on the wireless-longhaul list regarding setup in Nepal.
0 4-March.txt.gz
http://openict.net/pipermail/wireless-longhaul/
The list-archive front end seems to eat much of the text, but it's all there in the gzipped archive:
http://openict.net/pipermail/wireless-longhaul/20
go!
Agreed that the terrain is not as demanding as in Nepal (flat plains vs. extremely hilly), but the goals look similar. They also have a pretty Coverage Map
The ranges they get out of wifi links are also pretty good - 5kms is on ordinary antennas, while with properly aimed parabolic antennae (antennas?) they get upto 40 kms (25 miles)
US is now divided as the "Red" and "blue" states. Red States = communist countries. Coincidence? I think not
... But somebody's going to have to explain to them that http://yakse.cx/ is *not* a veterinary resource.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
they have given india a break. take it away Nepal.
The best planning can be done after the project completes.
... btw, song credited to M&M (Martha and the Muffins).
So this part of Nepal is basically working like a bunch of AP's? That's pretty awesome. When will the United States or somewhere do something like this. If they can afford it in Nepal, how expensive could it be to set up something similar in at least every major city, or even most of populated US. This'd be the most useful thing since sliced bread.
It looks like this is being implemented by a local (Mahabir Pun). This is a Very Good Thing because people will not reject it automatically out of culture-shock, as a foreign attack on their culture.
Conversely, progress and changes implemented directly by Westerners are just temporary intrusions at best, alien-induced rifts into the local culture at worst. Changes must come from within to have good effect.
I can almost picture a neighboring yak herder perched just over the ridge, with an antenna made from a Pringles can, stealing bandwidth...
Yeah, high tech like metal knives. A friend of mine went to Nepal and was treated like a god because he brought Swiss Army Knives as gifts. Metal mining is considered unclean and miners defile the earth, so miners are an untouchable caste. It should come as no surprise there is virtually no metals industry in Nepal. So even metal knives are relatively rare in Nepal, they have to import them, which is also pretty rare.
SO, are you getting the picture here? We're talking about a country where goat-herding is a high-tech dream job people aspire to. These people don't need high tech crap like computers, they need high tech crap like metal knives, electric lights, indoor plumbing, refrigerators, vitamins, etc.
Its good to see wifi finally being used for something good, something useful. Something other than the ability to surf and drink your starbucks at the same time..
I wonder what their range on thoes things is?
snowulf.com
Now, if they can recieve internet to their village, I wonder how stable it is. If it is stable enough, wouldn't they be able to setup VOIP for the villagers to use phones? On the other hand, if the connection sucks, I wouldn't think they would want to rely on it for making phone calls. If they can afford computers, using voip would be cheaper than a landline phone anyways!
Yes, good examples of appropriate uses of technology in these sorts of places - but the OP has a point. 9 times out of 10, stories like this on slashdot ARE about complete wastes of money.
PersonalTelco has an excellen review on Open Source Wi-Fi software. Could be something for Nepal's farmers!
Actually, we should go back in time and get a plunger for your mom's vagina.
In the real world more the 70 percent of farms are "online"
With all due respect I'd beg to differ. This may be true of the "North" (USA, Europe, Australia, NZ), but if you mean '70% of the total number of farms / farmers in the world' , I'd guess to disagree. Sub-Saharan Africa, India, China...
Indeed many have problems gaining regular and guaranteed access to water.
Communication is great, as long as you know how to use it.
I think what the author of your parent message was getting at is that it is pointless to throw technology at people without teaching them how to use it. People that have never used laptops and Internet before wouldn't have a clue about what to do if something broken, or why you shouldn't open attachments from 5qh2iotigosd@aol.com as, even though they didn't order any prescription drugs, there's a really important document they have to read...
This "hi-tech solution" may greatly improve the quality of life for those people if they were given the means to learn how to do this themselves ("give them a well") instead of giving them technology ("give them a bucket of water").
--
The trouble with pedants is that they're always right.
Packet Shepherd! :)
Viva Nepal!! Viva Nepal!! and my dear brother Noompsi!
of what Hillary and Norgay think of this accomplishment
See also http://nepalwireless.net/ as indicated on the BBC page.
2004-05-25 12:06:46 Wi-fi lifeline for Nepal's farmers (articles,wireless) (rejected)
Great, now I can swap more Robin Sharma songs. His music is incredible. If you're looking for some Eastern tunes, without the "High Pitch" whining sound, then Robin is the man!
He's the 5th Sexiest Man in Nepal for his "his roving eyes, wet lips and flirtatious manners."
Solid.
lcr012157@yahoo.com
It needs to be said that this might not last long now. Communists who are ravaging our country have destroyed most of the communication infrastructure (telephone, radio, tv towers etc). I suppose it was ok while it was under the radar, but these people will now be targeted. The Maoists have a lot of support among college kids in the US (I am sure there are a few on slashdot as well). The fact that it was on the BBC, here and probably countless other sites does not help. While it is nice to talk about these things, the media should be careful when publicising some things particularly when dealing with the saftey of the people involved.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Not knocking the coolness and geek apeal of being able to surf the net in a remote location, but it seems if they needed to be able to communicate plain old voice radios would be cheaper (both in money and power) than computers, hubs, and wireless nodes.
. there used to be a sig here.....
I wouldnt be so sure about their need for knives - I have been trying to acquire a traditionally made Gurkha "Kukri" for my collection. The kukri, with its angled blade is a formidable multipurpose tool - serving much the same purposes as the machete in South America. Of course, it doesnt come with a flip-open screwdriver - I guess thats what made the swiss A-knives popular items!
See that long UID - that's what you get for lurking too long
...and exchange vetinerary tips.
What does lord Vetinary to do with WiFi?
i was born and raised in Nepal. 'khukuri', a machete like blade was made quite popular in WWII by 'Gurkhas'. (google 'British Gurkhas' or Gorkha depending on how you want to pronounce it..) so it's not like nepal has never seen a metal blade. they reason they were so excited to see the swiss knives was 1) it was a gift. they were being polite. 2) a swiss knife is a thing to be delighted over.
Metal mining is rare in nepal not because it's considered unclean but because if you look at the topography and size of nepal, you'll quickly notice that it goes from about before most people here get the idea that metals are a rarity in nepal, consider this: there is a car manufacturing plant in nepal that opened recently. engines and tranny are imported from china. i think the body and assambly is done in nepal. but again, i think the raw metal is imported because mining is a challenge in a country with a small and *extreamly* rugged topography.
to say that nepal is "a country where goat-herding is a high-tech dream job people aspire to" is, let's just say, slightly off the mark. a friend of mine is working on a beowulf cluster in his home. and not of yaks. ;) it's kinda like the equavalent of saying "oh, i went to the US and everyone there lives in trailer parks."
as far as being treated like a god, well, there is a saying in nepali that says guests are gods. you would get that treatment from any nepali even when not under a knifepoint.
i find it interesting that good hospitality is mistaken for glee over a metal blade. i guess given the rarity of hospatility in the western world, people have a hard time recognizing it.
A friend of mine went to Nepal and was treated like a god because he brought Swiss Army Knives
When did your friend go there? In the 1940s?
I think you are underestimating the quality of life improvement provided by internet porn.
It's almost like there is this whole group of luddites here that DO NOT WANT people to utilize our increased communication. Why?
Seriously, answer me this: why do you not want these poor areas of the world to get online and have the ability to communicate with the rest of the world? Does it hurt you somehow? I just don't get it.
I note your comments, but my friend was a wool importer and spent his time out in rural areas where they really DO herd goats. He described the people as living in "stone age conditions" and I have no reason to dispute his accounts, especially since he showed me photos. These were people who could not afford expensive luxuries like metal knives. Do you really think their lives would be improved by solar powered computers with wifi?
Is a vetinerary what you get when your veterinarian has an itinerary?
Do yaks run GNU?
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Well, the Republicans and war mongers start rioting every time you mention the name "Jane Fonda". What a bunch of politically correct losers.
Not that I want to make you feel old or anything, but WTF does a person who made workout videos have to do with the Republican party?
That being all I know about Jane Fonda. Truth.
to prefer thinking of the mountains of nepal as not needing this stuff?
isn't it possible to look at regions of the world not as potential markets, but also as places where people live (happily) without the baited hook of western consumerism dangled in their noses?
there are places where the music is folk music, and you can tell what region it's from. places where each village has its own recipes, over 1000 years old. places where a person need not work 50 hours a week just to support his mortgage, toys, wife's wardrobe and car, with its 20 gallons of arab blood in the tank. there are places where people are happier with less. there are places where most of a person's time is free time, where life is simple, and the stress of paying ten bills each month isn't enslaving the population. places where the divorce rate is almost zero, and advertising is so rare that it's an oddity.
who thinks the west has the right answer for them? wifi to the mountains of nepal.
God help us.
who knows, maybe there's no harm done.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
If my post identified the title of the song whose lyrics were posted without credit to the songwriter, that's offtopic? I think not, moron.
For Nepal WiFi is prefect with it's mountainous terrain a digital repeater would have huge coverage.
http://www.gobpl.com
MOD PARENT UP! >> find it interesting that good hospitality is mistaken for glee over a metal blade
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Sounds good to me being a Nepali, but I hope its not just another publicity stunt.
We had few such networks perviously, even upto the villages below Everest Base Camp, and some are still operational, but the general people are yet to take advantage of it. Only a handful of western tourists and mountaineers who pay about US$10~20 an hour have access to the Internet via those network but the poor people cant sustain the cost of the network (eg. running cost of VSAT connectivity). Nepal is one of the poorest country, and the people living in the Mountains are some of the poorest in Nepal. Just to sustain a months cost for VSAT bandwidth 100s of people have to spend their years of savings, let alone the cost of buying and air-lifting the equipments to the mountains. Most of such network are funded by donors. Such networks close soon after the donors get enough publicity and stop funding.
It has to be economic and self sustained. Which is very hard for anyone to do. Most of the people are illiterate and need assistant even to use a phone. You can imagine how much help would they need to use computer and internet for their benefit. And on top of all that, there a huge cost for running the network. It's just not economic to spend $1500 to sell a Yak costing $300?
I would be happy to see some real benefit for the people, and some self-sustainable economic framework so that such networks dont exist for the sake of donors' publicity, but stay there for real benefit of the general people.
High-tech technology
I am sorry, you want the Department of Redundancy Department. Go down the hall past the ICU Unit and the ED Department. When you get to the ATM machine, take a right - can't miss it!
Clues for the clueless:
High-tech technology = high technology technology.
ICU Unit = Intensive Care Unit Unit.
ED Department = Emergency Department Department.
ATM machine = Automatic Teller Machine machine.
Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
Equally, they may believe that your friend lived in polluted and decadent conditions disconnected from nature and that everyone in your friend's home country aspired to live under the same ungodly conditions because that was the best they could hope for and a cleaner and simpler way of life is not accessible to westerners.
A friend of mine visited Switzerland and bought me a Swiss Army knife. I was excited about it too because it's a Swiss Army knife. I can buy one at the mall down the street, not cheaply, but this was a gift, and it was cheaper to buy it in Switzerland than in the US, cheaper by 80%.
If I could live far from the city in a less environmentally polluted area with a slower pace of life, I would, but I can't afford it. I made a compromise. Nepalese may think we are less advanced for trading clean and healthy living for money. You apparently think the opposite.
My favourite:
PIN Number = Personal Identification Number Number
Linux before Windows, we can only hope.
The article says they are using NetMeeting. They are going low tech before they go high tech on the OS and software side.