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Administering a PC in a Vacation Rental Home?

mrn121 asks: "Some relatives of mine are preparing their beach house for rental, and they have asked me to assist in setting up some of the on-site technology. One of my ideas was to add a computer with high-speed internet access to the house, but security issues may be overwhelming. I have administered campus computing labs in the past, so I am familiar with locking systems down, but I am curious about what level of security readers might suggest, and how to go about achieving an appropriate balance between security and usability for such an application. On one hand, I don't want renters to clutter the computer with software and useless bookmarks, but on the other hand, I don't want the system to be utterly useless. One major difference between this computer and a lab computer is that I will not have access to the machine for the entire summer, while the house is being rented."

97 comments

  1. Don't bother locking it down by mcgroarty · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I say don't bother to lock it down. They're on vacation -- let them use it however they like. And without physically securing the thing, there's not much you can do about some bored kid's hostile pranks for the next guest. What I'd do is to get one of those cheap $30 IDE removable hard drive kits and a second drive, then use Norton Ghost or even a Linux install with a script using "dd" to make an image of the normal drive's install on the removable drive.

    If you make the removable drive have boot priority, you can even make it an automated process, where the vacationers or the rental agent are told they can restore the computer to "fresh state" themselves by sliding the drive in, turning the key, powering up, waiting for it to do the copy, then shutting down, unlocking the drive bay, and putting the drive away again.

    Aside from that, set up Windows update to install automatically, use a DSL/cable router box that blocks pretty much everything inbound, and hope for the best.

    1. Re:Don't bother locking it down by BigBir3d · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All fine, until that removable drive removes itself from the house.

    2. Re:Don't bother locking it down by mcgroarty · · Score: 1

      Hey, if they want that coming out of their deposit at the leaser's choice of price, it's all good.

    3. Re:Don't bother locking it down by Vaevictis666 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Better than a removable drive would be a "hidden" hard drive partition. Get Windows (or whatever) installed onto partition 1, and have partition 2 non-visible from windows. Then boot into either Dos or a live cd (I highly recommend Bart's PE Builder for a live win xp cd) and take a ghost image of partition 1 and save the image on the hidden partition 2. Then as backup maybe make a CD set or something.

      You shouldn't be worrying about what goes on while they're there, but after the rental ends just pop over with the live cd, restore the disk image, and it's fresh for the next rental.

    4. Re:Don't bother locking it down by Darth_Burrito · · Score: 1

      Me too. I took one of those it training courses where you go off and attend a class for a week and pretend to learn things instead of actually working. Anyways, all the students needed high level access on the PC and some access on the domain. The training center administrators just had everything set up so they could reimage everything for each new class. It worked nicely.

      Let your customers do whatever they want, then just reimage the pc for the next guys.

    5. Re:Don't bother locking it down by BigBir3d · · Score: 1

      Still a royal PITA to have to get back to the house (I presume it is not local to this person) with a duplicate.

    6. Re:Don't bother locking it down by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      A better idea might be a bootable DVD with said automated "dd" script. You'd probably want to have at least a combo drive in the thing anyway. I doubt the fresh install state would take up more than a few GB, plus when your image disk "mysteriously disappears" you're not out much, and you can easily fedex a new copy. Heck, you might even be able to fit it on a single CD if you're careful.

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
    7. Re:Don't bother locking it down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of that, just ghost the PC to your laptop. If the PC breaks, 1 x-over cable and 15 minutes later, you're back in business.

  2. WWW???? by bluethundr · · Score: 1

    As to the first 'W'...What OS? As to the second 'w' WHO???? Since it's likely you won't know who the hell your renting to, security of the type you seek is nearly impossible to determine. If the name on the rental agreement. is "Bea, Aunt", you might be a-okay. If the name is "Kevin, Mitnick", you might some larger issues. Also, you don't mention what, if any screening process you may want to enact. Even there, screening might not be enough. If it's the name on the renter's agreement is "Average, Joe", but joe doesn't list that he was the BOFH of a large University you are hosed. NT or Linux. If it's NOT some BOFH, but just some dude who knows how to download ebcd froma .ru site or how to throw vmlinuz onto a floppy...hosed again.

    Sorry, but you simply don't list enough specifics for any of us to help you with 'w' #1 and 'w' #2. 'w' # 3 matters not in any case. How the heck did this one get by the editors???

    --
    Quod scripsi, scripsi.
    1. Re:WWW???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it is fairly safe to assume that it being a vacation rental, presumably not in a resort community for programmers, that choices #1-5 will be windows 9x+, #6 might be mac OS X, with linux battling it out at #7 with windows 3.1. I am not trying to be all anti-linux here, but this is a vacation setting, you want to keep people as happy and comfortable as possible, not completely shatter some average guy's self perception of computer literacy.

      As for protecting what damage the computer can do to the rest of the world, there are also easy OS agnostic solutions you did not realize- mainly a firewall. blocking all outgoing/ingoing ports except port 80 should keep anyone protected. Unless someone needs VPN access to their job, it is reasonable to only restrict them to the web. Yeah if someone knowledgable really wants to get around the system, they can... but who really rents a vacation house when they can go to a library. Its all about being reasonable- He probably has no idea who he is going to be renting to either... There is a threat of an axe murderer renting it and burying bodies in the basement, does that mean you recommend putting video surveilence down there?

      Your idea of screening tenants to see what computer background they have is silly. hes renting a vacation house with a computer, not a computer with a vacation house.

      It is posts like this that really make me want a (-1, stick up ass) moderation.

    2. Re:WWW???? by mrn121 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth... It saved me from having to type that exact same response.

    3. Re:WWW???? by BigFlirt · · Score: 1

      ...and who the heck is this "Kevin, Mitnick" guy you're talking about... Mr. Mitnick Kevin probably catches a lot of grief at airports and in hotels for having a similar name to an infamous character... ^_^

    4. Re:WWW???? by bluethundr · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I think it is fairly safe to assume that it being a vacation rental, presumably not in a resort community for programmers,

      NEWSFLASH: programmers are as likely to take a vacation as much as anyone. You don't need to be a programmer to get admin access to a box you have physical access to. Any dumbass teenager with a book and an interest in computers can compromise your system. The point is, you can't assume who's going to be there. Security through obscurity ain't the answer, genius!

      that choices #1-5 will be windows 9x+, #6 might be mac OS X, with linux battling it out at #7 with windows 3.1. I am not trying to be all anti-linux here, but this is a vacation setting, you want to keep people as happy and comfortable as possible, not completely shatter some average guy's self perception of computer literacy.

      Good point. You don't want anyone to feel down on themselves cause they can't use linux. But, again, the point is you don't know whose going to be using the box. And linux is fine for cruising the web and using email (which is what any average user does anyway. GNOME, AQUA, XP...pheh! Whatever. If there's physical access+knowledge it doesn't take a genius to crack it.

      As for protecting what damage the computer can do to the rest of the world, there are also easy OS agnostic solutions you did not realize- mainly a firewall. blocking all outgoing/ingoing ports except port 80 should keep anyone protected.

      . If it's a linksys, just make sure paperclips are safely locked away and buy up all the local office supply stores of their stash.

      And you never mentioned your ISP. If they don't block port 25, and you're tennents are visiting from .ru I'd lay dollars to donuts they could get get a mad spam relay station going for their russian bride business!

      Unless someone needs VPN access to their job, it is reasonable to only restrict them to the web.

      Yup. VPN would break your security measures too. So first you assume that the people using the vacation box are know-nothing ninnehammers and all of sudden they know how to use VPN? Make up y'r mind!

      Yeah if someone knowledgable really wants to get around the system, they can... but who really rents a vacation house when they can go to a library.

      Another newsflash: geeks like the beach as much as anyone. I used to live 500 feet from a gorgeous NJ beach. Loved it. hacking, videogames, getting blasted, cruising the boards and bodysurfing. Twas the life.

      There is a threat of an axe murderer renting it and burying bodies in the basement, does that mean you recommend putting video surveilence down there?

      No, but if your ISP is dumb enough to have smtp relay turned off, you may want to bring an axe the next time you visit these tennants. Depending on whether of course, they are in fact using your station for spam relay.

      Your idea of screening tenants to see what computer background they have is silly. hes renting a vacation house with a computer, not a computer with a vacation house.

      Missed the point entirely. That wasn't where I was coming from, sparky. Point I was making is that you simply don't know. You read way too much Ionesco.

      It is posts like this that really make me want a (-1, stick up ass) moderation.

      I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was addressing a 12 year old. If I did, I would've coddled you more and thrown a few more "power rangers" references in to make you feel more at home. The entire point of what I wrote is that, without providing ANY specifics, how can anyone give you serious help? By the way, I know your sarcasm detector is way off...I was kidding about the paperclips. Just keep the linksys under lock and key. Even that won't stop Joe Uberh4xor on vaycay...

      --
      Quod scripsi, scripsi.
    5. Re:WWW???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, programmers are just as likely to take vacations as anyone else. But like I said this is all about being reasonable. I do not believe that someone renting out a house to hack its or someone else's computer is a reasonable assumption to make, just like someone renting out with the purpose of murdering someone isnt. Security through obscurity is not an answer, but building a steel vault around the machine isnt either, and even then that is still just "security through obscurity" since you could always saw the thing open. He didnt say he wanted to make it 100% hack proof. He said he wanted to make it secure. You may think they mean the same thing, but you probably "secure" your house by locking your door, but unless you live in a steal vault, I do not think that you would call it burglar proof.

      My point about the library, though I did not state it well, was that who would rent a vacation house with the intent of hacking a computer when it is easily traceable back to you, when you could go to a public terminal or net cafe and be much more anonymous?

      And as for VPN's... they are quite common now. I know several not so bright people that use a vpn to remote desktop into their office. Most companies have documents that explain in little words with lots of diagrams how to set up their vpn. I for one know my boss is alot more willing to let me get a day off if he knows that I have the ability to VPN in from wherever I am if need be.

      Making assumptions is a part of life. If a teenage girl says she wants to buy her first car, and asks what do you recommend? Do you yell at her for not telling you if she plans on hauling hazardous materials over state lines? I am guessing that you would be more apt to recommend a civic or an eclipse, or some other cheap "first" type car. I really dont feel that there was much of a stretch here in figuring out what he was trying to achieve. And if not, you can always go with a general "what would I want if I was in his situation."

  3. Windows XP by Nasarius · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you're going to do it with Windows, use XP and let everyone create their own limited account. All the "clutter" goes into their personal storage, not the whole system.

    --
    LOAD "SIG",8,1
    1. Re:Windows XP by Coke+in+a+Can · · Score: 1

      Why does it have to be XP? Any version of NT (including 2000 and XP) can do that, along with every other modern operating system.

    2. Re:Windows XP by Nasarius · · Score: 1

      XP makes it easy. So do a lot of Linux distros, though.

      --
      LOAD "SIG",8,1
  4. Knoppix by Col.+Klink+(retired) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd leave it completely diskless and put a Knoppix CD in.

    --

    -- Don't Tase me, bro!

    1. Re:Knoppix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with that suggestion, too. But "Bee, Aunt" might just have one very bad time using the rental computer.

      I think a Knoppix install would be fine for a single application, perhaps running a revised or highly customized shell.

      But I have to say for "Average, Joe" Linux is still a bit unfamiliar.

    2. Re:Knoppix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >>Leave a Knoppix CDROM in the computer

      And get a case with a locking front so they can't remove the Knoppix CD.

  5. Why bother with a PC? by TrebleJunkie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I were you, I'd go *only* as far as supplying a broadband connection, a cable/DSL router (which should block *most* crap by default) with DHCP enabled, a hub/switch (if necessary) in a closet somewhere. Then, in plain view, ethernet wall jack and a one-page sheet of instructions on how to make it work with *their* computer. Maybe a spare ethernet cable or two.

    The way I figger it, if they can afford to rent a beach house, they can probably afford their own laptop if they wanna get some work done. And the most you'll have to do to service it *should* be to tell them to recycle the power on the router or cable modem, and you don't have to worry about the PC.

    --

    Ed R.Zahurak

    You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.

    1. Re:Why bother with a PC? by KhanAFur · · Score: 1

      This past Christmas my family and I rented a house in Florida, while they didn't have a nice router set up or anything they did have a broadband connection available. All of my family brought their laptops and I brought a wireless router and we were all happly online.

      I will definately second leaving instructions behind, the people we rented from didn't leave directions and I ended up calling the ISP to get everything set up (ended up having to use a static IP and such). In the long run I left instructions behind in the house for the next renters.

      Anyway you could probably get away with just having a jack that goes directly in to the cable modem, etc if you were feeling cheep.

      In all honisty I'd probably just unplug the provided computer and plug my own in.

    2. Re:Why bother with a PC? by Bourbon+Man · · Score: 1

      I agree. Give them the pipe and let them use their own computer. You did not say what country this house is in, but if it is in the USA you would be protecting yourself from a potential lawsuit that way. IANAL, but the way the courts work these days I wouldn't be suprised if you couldn't be sued on the grounds that your hardware is to blame for all that kiddie porn/mp3s/etc/wrote a virus/failed to pay 10 million Nigerian dollars/etc/etc/etc.

  6. Locked-tight Linux distrib by kalidasa · · Score: 1

    Just give them enough permissions to open mozilla and vncviewer and mount and burn a cd. It's a vacation house - what else would they need?

    1. Re:Locked-tight Linux distrib by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Media player. You know, for music, or pr0n, if the spouse is in on that. My girlfriend shocked the hell out of me last time we went on vacation. Giggity-giggity-giggity-giggity-gig! And make sure there's a DVD-ROM drive in the box, atleast.

    2. Re:Locked-tight Linux distrib by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 1

      Office or OpenOffice.org, for writing a vacation diary.
      Dig cam access software to empty the camera disk (and then burn to CD)
      A few games for rainy days

  7. Lock the main computer in a closet by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Along with a good Wifi firewall, and rent the place out as "WiFi enabled high speed internet access". That way, you can just give the WAP passwords to the rental agent, and people are responsible for their own machines.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  8. Image the Machine... by carpediem55 · · Score: 1

    You should use some sort of Image program, such as Acronis, ghost, etc. You should be able to set it up to image the system upon boot. That way, whatever the renters do, the system will be imaged, and all will be well.

    --
    Sig!
  9. Norton Ghost by GregChant · · Score: 1

    If it's a Windows PC, I suggest using Symantec Norton Ghost. They can do whatever they like to the computer, but when it reboots, it goes back to its original condition. It's perfect for applications like these.

    1. Re:Norton Ghost by kevin7kal · · Score: 1

      Ok, here goes.
      Use ghost or a similar product? No, don't.
      A decent image is going to take the system 15 minutes to boot everytime. If it's sysprepped, it will take 30 minutes.
      If a person is doing work and the power blinks, there goes all of their work. Oh, of course you can tell them to use a floppy disk or USB key, but that's making to too complicated.

      Also, if you are using XP and you restore from a syspreped ghost, you will have to reactivate the system within 60 days or suffer the consequences, and you can only do this 3 times per license.

      Here is what I would do with a windows machine.
      Set up your system to run as a kiosk. Autologon to some user account. When they do log off or reboot, have i.e. erase it's history, empty the trash, and erase document history.

      Set it up w/ a vnc server and a script that e-mails you it's ip everytime the ip changes. (Google search for HOWTO do this or check usenet groups or whatever other sources you are familier with) so that you can do remote administration, or use rdesktop, or if you are using XP, leave instructions on how the user can request remote assistance from you.

      Once you have the system locked up tight, meaning: what I mentioned above, plus user has no power to change the desktop icons or the desktop, whatever else you can think of) Do make a ghost image and supply the property manager w/ instructions on how to use the bootable CD that will read the image from that other partion and restore your system)

      So the main tools you need are tweakui and gpedit.msc.

      If this is too much, use a knoppix CD(as mentioned by someone else) and leave instructions on what the web browser and aim clients are. And leave some extra copies w/ the property manager.

  10. Multiple options by notsoclever · · Score: 2, Informative
    You could just provide the pipe and an 802.11 access point and have it up to the renters to just bring their own laptop or whatever. Then you also don't have to worry about the hardware getting messed up (since you could just lock the access point and modem up in the crawlspace or whatever).

    Or, you could do as another poster suggested and just make an install image for periodic recovery using Ghost.

    Or, you could just figure that any renters who *need* a computer will be able to provide for themselves.

    --
    There are 10 kinds of people: ones who understand ternary, ones who don't, and ones who think this joke is about binary
    1. Re:Multiple options by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree w/ this guy...

      802.11a/g router locked in a closet... run a physical port to the family room in case they don't have wireless...

      Include a 1-2 page "Here's how you configure your wireless account to work with us", laminate and leave it on a desk somewhere.

      Use WEP, or don't, if you do, keep it simple and change it when they leave, just re-write it out on a card or something that is stapled to the other booklet.

      I wouldn't provide an actual PC for the people, it's bound to come out nasty...

      Let's say the PC physically breaks? What if they say they didn't do it? Or what if a stick of RAM disappears, etc?

      A TV, telephone, etc, those are all rugged and fairly durable... PCs tend to need TLC often...

  11. No security. And Ghost the fucker. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Configure it with a largeish partition for ghost files. Install Windows on the other partition and configure it however much or little security you'd like. Enable the firewall. Install automated spyware & virus protection. Do windows update.

    Ghost the machine as it is, properly configured, to the ghost partition. Later, after they've fucked everything up, you can restore from the ghost file.

    Isn't that how you ran your labs?

    --

    There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    1. Re:No security. And Ghost the fucker. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1
      Ghost the machine as it is, properly configured, to the ghost partition. Later, after they've fucked everything up, you can restore from the ghost file.

      From the article:
      One major difference between this computer and a lab computer is that I will not have access to the machine for the entire summer, while the house is being rented.
      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:No security. And Ghost the fucker. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 2

      So, restore from the ghost file at the end of the summer.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
    3. Re:No security. And Ghost the fucker. by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > Isn't that how you ran your labs?

      Ack, I should certainly home not!

      Sure, restoring a disk image occasionally might work okay for a single PC in
      a rental situation, but it would be a maintenance nightmare in a lab. With
      multiple PCs in the room and multiple people using each one per day (and on
      occasion multiple people per hour), you could end up hiring two or three
      full-time restore-monkeys just to reghost the suckers.

      No, for a lab situation you want diskless thin clients that boot off the
      network thin client server, which is physically locked up and configured so
      that the clients don't have write access to the boot image at the host
      operating system level. (If you want them to be able to save settings and
      stuff, you give them home or user directories on a separate network file
      server and set up the client OS to mount those. And you set up quotas.)

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  12. Why not just a guest account? by beeplet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe I'm missing something, but the obvious solution to me is just to create a guest accout without admin priviledges. Let the renters know when they move in that if they want to install any special programs (if they want to use the computer to play some game, for example) that they have to let you know at the beginning of the summer so you can install it. As long as it's clear in advance what they can and can't use the computer for I don't see a problem. Also, if you aren't going to be around to administer the computer make sure they know that - preferably in writing, since if they come with the expectation of being able to use the computer for work, and something goes wrong, they will be looking for someone to blame.

  13. Buy a mac and follow these instructions: by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    http://www.macosxlabs.org/presentations/other/Harv ard_SIG_Part_2.pdf

    You do what for a living?

  14. If you're stuck on windows... by DaveJay · · Score: 1

    If you're going to be stuck using a Windows box, use software like SiteKiosk (www.sitekiosk.com), which is designed to lock Windows boxes used in public places.

  15. "Securing" a public access terminal. by dinodrac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My prefered method of securing a computer in this situation would be a Boot ROM that quickly restores the system to a pristine state every time its rebooted. Look at some of the solutions offered by Rembo, such as BpBatch.

    Properly set up, the loader in the boot rom can validate the user-accessible partition against a reference copy on a hidden partition, then syncronize it rapidly in a manner similar to that of rsync. The renter has nearly unrestricted use of the system, but the second they reboot, its a clean system. If you want to be less anal, you could configure it so the wipe is only performed "on demand", or performed at the request of an off-premises master server, allowing the renter to store files while they are there, and have them wiped when they leave.

  16. Dyndns.org, yiPost, VNC, and hidden ghostpartition by skermit · · Score: 2

    By using all of these (including a BIOS scheduled powerup at 5am), you can have control over when you wish to wipe the main partition. You could schedule a weekly image dump, or whenever they called with a problem VNC in(the image dump and reboot shouldn't take more than an hour), and you could give them free reign over the system otherwise, so they could install their own games, or download all the spyware/virii they wish.

    --
    -Christopher Wu
    http://www.christopherwu.net/
  17. How the professionals do it. by Spudley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    An internet cafe I know achieves this very simply: Every night after they close, they just restore every PC to it's original state from a backup on a hidden partition.

    Takes them practically zero time or effort -- all they have to do is open the admin program, enter a password, and click 'Okay'. No disks or tapes to insert, and users can do anything the like to the machine during the day. (well... it might be awkward if they managed to delete the backup program, but I don't think that's happened yet.. and anyway, they keep proper backups too, just in case)

    --
    (Spudley Strikes Again!)
    1. Re:How the professionals do it. by Space_Nerd · · Score: 1

      Do you any open source/freeware solution to do just that?

      --
      Everybody has a purpose in life, maybe mine is to lurk in slashdot.
    2. Re:How the professionals do it. by big+daddy+kane · · Score: 1

      uhh wouldn't you need to *be* at the computer to do that? i dunno if you can vnc that

  18. Let's ask the metaquestion by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Who rents a beach house so that they can use the computer? When my family rents a beach house, spending time in front of a computer is the last thing on my mind.

    From your point of view, putting a computer in a beach house could be a headache anyway, for physical reasons. Everything in a rental property takes a beating. I'd just get a wireless router, hide it in a locked closet, and maybe put a few ethernet jacks where your guests can find them. Let them bring their laptops if they're geeky enough.

    You might also make them sign something saying that they're responsible for whatever gets downloaded during the time they're in the house. That way, if you have a guest who downloads something that attracts the wrong sort of attention, maybe they'll get in trouble instead of you.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Who rents a beach house so that they can use the computer? When my family rents a beach house, spending time in front of a computer is the last thing on my mind.

      To check the weather forecast, the tides, to figure out what that sandpiper-ish bird with a hooked bill is, to order new books from Amazon, to view pr0n when you can't get anywhere with the girls on the beach, to get a recipe for tom yam gai when you left your cookbooks at home...

    2. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who rents a beach house so they can use the computer? Probably nobody. But if it rains, a computer and/or internet connection is a major perk. Nobody rents a hotel room/house for the TV, either, but a lot of people use them while they're there.

    3. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by alwayslurking · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When preparing a property in Tobago, between the beach and the golf course on a tropical paradise, for holiday rentals, a friend was required by the letting agents to supply a television for each bedroom and the lounge. Four rooms, four separate televisions. Apparently American holidaymakers can't do without. After that blow to my faith in humanity, one computer doesn't sound so bad.

    4. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by warpSpeed · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Who rents a beach house so that they can use the computer? When my family rents a beach house, spending time in front of a computer is the last thing on my mind

      I Do.

      I run my own buisness, so I never really get a vacation from email. Also the whole family loves going to the beach, except me. What can I do? I bring my laptop and tons of books magazines, etc. In the past I have used dialup while at the beach (oh the horrors!). DSL access in the beach house would simply be "heaven". Wireless access would be a real bonus (but I can bring my own WAP) I can hang out during the day reading and responding to email and drinking beer.

      Now that is a vacation.

    5. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by pedantic+bore · · Score: 4, Insightful
      To check the weather forecast... radio

      the tides... paper, radio. Or just ask your neighbor with the boat.

      to figure out what that sandpiper-ish bird with a hooked bill is.. It's a sandpiper. If you need more detail than that, go get a book about birds.

      to order new books from Amazon You're on vacation! Go to the book store! It's fun and you don't have to wait for delivery.

      to view pr0n when you can't get anywhere with the girls on the beach... Never a problem for me. My wife and I always bring home two girls, one for each of us. (Of course, it's the same two girls we brought to the beach, but that just makes it even better.)

      to get a recipe for tom yam gai when you left your cookbooks at home... Go to the book store. Call a friend. Recreate the recipe from memory.

      I guess different people have different ideas of what they like to do when they're on vacation. For me, it means getting away from the normal routine and not being such a geek for a few days. To each his own.
      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    6. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Why not just stay home then?

    7. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by warpSpeed · · Score: 1
      Why not just stay home then?

      Yeah right! Are you married? Something about maintaining domestic bliss, which is far more important then a sunburn.

    8. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by CGP314 · · Score: 1

      In the past I have used dialup while at the beach (oh the horrors!)

      That must have been one long telephone cord.

    9. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      So you don't do the beach, but sit at the PC and drink beer, and this is okay with the wife, yet staying home is not?

    10. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by op00to · · Score: 1

      While it's obvious that you live under a bridge, it is also obvious that you have never been in a serious relationship with a woman. If you had, you would realize that women are not exactly rational about everything.

    11. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by kentborg · · Score: 1

      So you want to get away from the rat race of modern life when on vacation? Rent a vacation house without electricity. Without bug screens. Without running water. Hell, camp. Without any plastic or synthetic gear. Go back to the simple life. And don't forget to leave your watch at home.

      What? You actually want some of those modern impositions? Which ones? .... NO, you are wrong, you don't want those items, you want the ones I say you want, because *I* know what is a correct vacation.

      Oh, wait, I take it back, I am not the one saying how you should spend your vacation, you are the one saying how others should spend their vacations. Are you so insecure that you can't stand the thought of someone else using a computer on vacation? What kind of busy body are you?

      -kb, the Kent who knows a particularly nice French jazz radio station that goes particularly well with a vacation, but, except when he is in the right part of France, an internet connection is the only way to get it.

    12. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by pedantic+bore · · Score: 1
      I am not the one saying how you should spend your vacation, you are the one saying how others should spend their vacations.

      I merely offer my advice, as a reknowned expert on such matters. You are free to ignore it. Slashdot postings impose no binding obligations; just because you read my words does not mean that you are required or even expected to agree.

      If you really know of a good French jazz station, please post its frequency (and URL).

      --
      Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    13. Re:Let's ask the metaquestion by kentborg · · Score: 1

      > If you really know of a good French jazz
      > station, please post its frequency (and URL).

      La Radio TSF: 89.9, Paris. http://tsfjazz.com

      -kb

  19. What kind of admin ARE you.. by E_elven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What do you mean you 'won't have access' to it for the summer. Just use one of the remote desktop systems if it's a Windows box or -better yet- if you set it up as a Linux box you can just SSH into it. If the dynamic IP is an issue, register a free dynamic hostname at (for example) dyndns.org and install the IP auto-updater. That way you can just ssh to 'beach-house.dyndns.org'.

    As others have suggested, create limited user accounts. Make sure they've got all they need for web surfing, movie watching, music and so on, and lock everything else down, and just leave them a limited-space directory to save stuff into. If you're afraid they may need more software, just create a crap e-mail account for 'support requests' and use the remote desktop/ssh with admin privileges to install new software if you deem it to be ok.

    --
    Marxist evolution is just N generations away!
    1. Re:What kind of admin ARE you.. by miyako · · Score: 1

      Hmm, this gives me an idea, though I am not sure if the non-geeks of the world would find this so neat.
      If you were going to use dyndns.org (they are great, I use 'em and recommend them to everyone), or a similar service for remote admin anyway, what about enabling apache, and hacking up a simple frontend to gphoto2 or something with a php site, or even just a simple frontend to ftp back to a server you controll, so that visiters can effortlessly create a web blog of their vacation with photos for all their family.

      --
      Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
  20. Deep Freeze by atomic-penguin · · Score: 1

    One copy of deep freeze will set you back $25. What it does, is basically gives you 1 gig of "Thawspace" and "Freeze" the rest of the system. When frozen, you reboot the system and everything is restored to the original configuration (last time it was frozen.
    You can then basically map your thawspace to My Documents, and give the tenants a place to store their downloads. The only drawback I have seen is signficant slowdown on older machines.

    --
    /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
  21. Whay will they really be doing? by jbarr · · Score: 1

    The question is what will they really be using it for? I don't see anything wrong with providing "just the basics" on a system that's pretty locked down..

    For example, you should be able to install Windows XP Pro and create a user acocunt with very limited rights. Give them access to Internet Explorer, Word (or AbiWord), and some other basics. Other than that, keep pretty much everything else locked down.

    Also, leverage XP's Remote Desktop so you can connect as Administrator to tweak or fix things.

    No, they won't be able to install new stuff, and they will be very limited to what they have at their disposal, but really, this is a vacation house. If they want full functionmality, they can bring their own laptop and jack in.

    --
    My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
  22. Forget the computer... by Hank+Reardon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't bother putting a computer up. Get a decent, cheap 802.11g wireless router, and perhaps hook up a couple of jacks for hardwire LAN access.

    If somebody wants a computer on their vacation, let them bring their own.

    --
    There's so little difference between politics and jihad lately...
  23. Recovery methods... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    In a really hostile environment, focus on recovery not limitations. People will spend time on working around what you do...so don't put up barriers.

    One simple method I can think of uses two hard disks;

    Boot disk with backup image (read-only)

    Basic OS with a few apps (no login)

    That way, the cleaning crew or the management company can repair the computer after the renters leave by selecting "Wipe clean and restore computer".

    The hard part (for you): Check the pinouts on the IDE cable to the read-only drive. After everything works properly, "nip" the wire that performs the write function. Check online for what to cut.

    Alternately, a backup/restore CD could be used, though this is another thing to get lost and dammaged.

  24. Sounds like... by chromaphobic · · Score: 1

    ...a can of worms best left unopened.

    Renter starts computer. Renter logs onto Kazaa. Renter shares thousands of files off his/her iPod. RIAA traces back the IP. You get sued/extorted by the RIAA.

    Just one of far too many potentially nasty scenarios. A quick mental benefit/risk analysis says, to me at least, it just isn't worth it.

  25. You're on vacation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    1. Remove the harddrive
    2. Put the following BASIC program on a boot floppy

    10 PRINT "TURN OFF THE COMPUTER AND GO OUTSIDE YOU LAZY SHIT"
    20 GOTO 10

    1. Re:You're on vacation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 REPLY "It's raining you inconsiderate asshat!"
      20 GOTO 10

  26. This may be more work than you want.... by g1zmo · · Score: 2, Informative

    ....but how about leaving an ssh server running and remotely add a new user every time it's rented and delete that user when they're done. With a nicely set up /etc/skel it should pretty seamless.

    --
    I have found there are just two ways to go.
    It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow.
    -REK, Jr.
  27. Just preload with pr0n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fill it up like 99% full with pr0n, there won't be room to download anything else, and they probably wouldn't go online then anyway.

  28. Some ideas... by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

    1. Ghosting drives and locking down user accounts are okay ideas.

    2. Only providing net access is a much, much better idea. People who want a computer at the lake will probably have their own machine, and will just want access.

    Provide cable/DSL and wireless or wall jacks, and instructions for configuring a PC/Mac to use the network. Physically lock the network equipment (router/switch/firewall) up.

    3. Have the owner include a lease clause about network access rules and responsibilities. You're in essense becoming a small ISP for the renter, and should enact an AUP (in the lease terms).

    4. Eat the cost (or cover it with rent) of a business class Internet account. IANAL, but I'm guessing that it would be easier to prove in court that a business account is an internet service provided to renters with full contractual (lease) terms covering civil and criminal liability--and your lack thereof--regarding its use.

    From a purely technical perspective, a business account would also ease remote access problems caused by dynamic addresses.

    5. Firewall this network. Get a Fortigate 50. It does IDS, AV, stateful firewalling, and even web content-filtering, in hardware at wirespeed, for $300 bucks. I love mine. This, and your lease terms, will prevent the, "I hooked up my computer and picked up 2 virii, 3 bots, other spyware and now it bluescreens every time I try to boot," lawsuits.

    6. Screw the net access. Buy a widescreen TV and a home-theater-in-a-box, some cheap DVDs, and, "Presto!" ultra-cool rainy-day entertainment you don't have to worry about. You can get this combo for under $2K too.

  29. Web terminal by bobthemuse · · Score: 1

    Get one of those net appliances with small solid state storage, and the ability to lock down the configuration with a password, then bold the whole thing to the wall.

    Since you won't have access to it for the summer, this is really the only way to guarantee people can't break it. Also, lessen the chance some jerk will give you an imprompty 'downgrade'.

  30. Environmental concerns by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    UPS. Depending on where this is, beach houses suffer from enough storms and power outages to make this a necessity.
    Sand and water. This is at the beach. Little Jimmy will start pecking away with sandy fingers. A weatherproof keyboard, at the very least. Sealed cabinet for the case, maybe.

    Personally, I'd just give them access, and not the actual PC.

  31. WebTV by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Can't use it for much, but hey...at least they can't screw anything up with it.

  32. I've rented a lot of beach houses... by Otto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... and never did they have a computer in them. If I wanted a computer, I brought my laptop.

    Anybody really wanting to access the internet on their beach vacation has the equipment to do so anyway. Seriously, laptops are common among business travellers, and all netheads have them or something like them.

    If you want to advertise high speed internet access, few people will be expecting there to be an actual computer there. An ethernet jack hooked to a cable modem (out of sight.. like in a closet or wall or other locked area) is good enough. If you want to provide wireless, drop an access point back there hooked to the cable modem as well. Beyond that, I wouldn't put in one single bit of equipment. No computer, no monitor, nothing. Maybe a power protector on the cable modem/access point, but that's it.

    Leave an instruction sheet on how to hook up their ethernet or 802.11b wireless (use a 802.11b access point, as the cable modem is slower than 11 mbits and b is cheaper/more compatible) and wash your hands of it. Nobody expects an entire configured system to be there, realistically. If you go to a nice hotel with connectivity, you don't get a computer in the room, you get a place to hook up your computer and that's it. That's expected. Leaving a whole system there just invites people to rewire the thing to hook up *their* system.

    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
    1. Re:I've rented a lot of beach houses... by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Also - connect the router/WAP to an electronic time switch that will cycle the power at say 3am. Most of the consumer routers/WAPs need rebooting every so often, usually because of nasty peer-peer software.

  33. Addendum: by Otto · · Score: 1

    If your cable modem company or other ISP does "lock in", where they give out addresses via DHCP by taking your MAC Address and putting it into their system, then you'll need to add a cable/DSL router into the picture. Get one with the built in 802.11b wireless, like many of the Linksys models. This way, the cable company sees only the router, your guests get their address via DHCP from the router and don't have to call you when it fails to work.

    You can easily test if your high speed ISP does lock in.. Have them hook it up, and later, once it's working, plug a different computer in to see if it can get an IP via DHCP. If it can't put a router in there. You can change the MAC on the WAN side of the router to be the one the cable company is expecting. All of the cheap home routers have this feature. That way it gets an IP from the ISP and you give out local IPs like 192.168.1.100 or some such.

    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  34. Well by The-Bus · · Score: 1

    We're forgetting the fact that the computer may make the house a lot more markeatable. I would have a main computer with a dummy client in the kitchen. Maybe a smallish LCD screen, a keyboard, and mouse. Make it obvious that this is for checking email, etc. Get remote access to the main computer so you can create accounts for each new renter ("The Johnsons"). Keep backups, maybe in a partition. Casual users can use the small PC for email, news, weather (Important for a beach house!). Power users can bring in their own hardware.

    --

    Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.

  35. If you by mattboston · · Score: 1

    have broadband access, make sure it's locked down with a firewall, but open up ports for VNC, and configure it to work with SSH. Then use something like DYNDNS.org and give it a name my mycottage.homeip.net so you always have access to it. Simple.

  36. Knoppix by David+Muir+Sharnoff · · Score: 1

    Put the hard drive in a removable IDE enclosure. Take it with you. Leave a Knoppix CDROM in the computer. Provide a DSL/Cable router with DHCP. An 802.11[abg] access point would also be a plus.

  37. two steps by Matthew+Weigel · · Score: 1

    Ghost the disk between renters.

    Get a simple firewall that blocks ports both ways; restrict what can come and go. Use your judgement, try to allow games and anything that might be helpful if some poor worker has a business emergency on vacation, but not much else.

    --
    --Matthew
  38. Probably the easiest way... by chrispyman · · Score: 3, Informative

    If it's a Windows machine, I'd suggest putting DeepFreeze on it. It basically resets the computer back to its original state whenever you reboot the box. I've used this on many student workstations and it works like a charm. Unfortunately it won't stop some smartypants from booting off a cd and installing Linux or something like that ;-)

  39. Xandros by sammy_cda · · Score: 1

    Just install Xandros 2.0, give them user access and let them have at it. It is as easy to use as Windows XP and I doubt they can break it.

  40. Totally insecure. by Game+Genie · · Score: 1

    If a person has unfettered physical access to a machine there is NO security. I would suggest locking down the computer just as you would in a lab, but that alone is not enough. You would need to re-image the machine on a regular basis. It also couldn't hurt to physically lock the case shut.

    It would be a lot less trouble to just offer a ethernet and WiFi hookup and let guests use their own laptop.

  41. Deep Freeze and locks. Lots of locks with cables. by yo5oy · · Score: 1

    use Deep Freeze on the comp. setup a schedules to reboot every morning and to defrag in the background. have a remote access like remote admin or tightvnc to fix or update the computer.

    --
    a slut did tulsa
  42. Hardware Solution by Shougeki · · Score: 1

    For about 50 quid (dont know in dollars, but reckon these should be available over there) you can get a little card that goes in the PCI slot.


    It can be set up to reload the partition every reboot, every day, or on scheduled times. It has a "flash" version that saves up to 1G of changes to the OS/Partition or you can just have a complete backup on the same drive that it copies over.


    The ones ive used are:
    http://www.lodestar.co.uk/.

    Site looks a bit outdated, but they work fine. I have a couple of them in different places, including a youth hostel and it means i VERY rarely get called to fix up the computers.

  43. you're still screwed by RMH101 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...if they use that connection to do anything illegal or nasty. your name'll be on the ISP's billing system...

    1. Re:you're still screwed by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Transparently proxy everything, and block newsgroups. Then you've got the time & date of whatever illegality and nastiness took place, and the person's signature on the rental agreement.

  44. Every rental addition helps by bruce+RedHead · · Score: 1

    A good friend of mine has a nice beach rental in N.C. - If you have a nice house with a nice deposit and a healthy rental fee, people take care of things fairly well.

    Another aspect is that most improvements increase the rental value. I helped them finish an addition to the kitchen which made it possible for 8 people to eat dinner at the same table. Rental fees are higher, and the renters are HAPPIER!

    I just don't get people who insist that since THEY don't want a computer on vacation, NOBODY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO!! If you want to install a computer with high speed access, that probably will attract a new set of customers that realize you want them taken care of in every way!

    As for the backup restore - my OPINION is to not start fresh on every boot. Especially if you're using Windoze. I would be REALLY annoyed if the stuff I wrote up last night (since the kids were playing on my laptop) is TOAST!!

    When the cleaning person comes in after the renters leave, one of their duties could be to log in to an ADMIN account and double click the icon that says "RESTORE".

    It would be nice of you to install LINUX with a guest account and leave a Knoppix CD for them to take home.

    ANOTHER OPTION:
    Remove all furniture and carpet, put in 3 keg fridges, make the bathroom into another bedroom and rent a Port-A-Potty. That way those lousy worthless renters can't hurt much, and they can drink all the beer they want. Just turn the fire sprinklers on high at the end of the week.

    But that's only if you don't repect others...

  45. here's an idea by mattyrobinson69 · · Score: 1

    install linux

    lock it down

    give each resident their own user account so activities can be traced.

    mount /home with noexec

    use one of those net anomynisers (a proxy hosted somewhere else, so if they do anything bad, you wont get done for it.

    install gnome or KDE and give them nice desktop icons so its not too different from windows (like "check email" for whatever mail app you choose, etc)

  46. Just make sure you get a deposit by acomj · · Score: 1

    And make sure the deposit is enough to cover whatever a RIAA/MPAA lawsuit cost you.

    And hope they don't do anything worse..

  47. Do not provide a PC by lorcha · · Score: 1

    Just provide a live ethernet port. Let your guests hook up their laptops.

    --
    "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
  48. Don't give 'em a PC, just a pipe by rkhalloran · · Score: 1

    If they want to have a PC at the beach, odds are they have their own laptop. Just get a pipe into the place (cable/DSL), put in a hub/access point (insert Your Prefered Vendor here - Linksys, Netgear, SMC, etc.), configure it fairly tight, wire up a coupla wall jacks and leave instructions. Given it's a beach house in summer, put a good surge protector on it; the units sold for DSS users will protect both power, phone and coax lines. The folks suggesting a commercial account for liability protection are probably a little too paranoid, though; if your renters download enough stuff to bring the MPAA/RIAA down on you, the type of account you set up with is unlikely to matter to the Overpriced Suits across from you in the courtroom.

  49. Knoppix on a write protected CF card w/ USB key by monopole · · Score: 1

    Boot the system off of a write protected CF card version of Knoppix, and provide a USB key for configuration and storage which the guest can keep afterwards (incorporate the cost in the price of the rental).
    The added benefit is that each member of party renting the house can get their own key and have their own configuration and files.

  50. Glutton for Punishment by PingPongBoy · · Score: 1

    Unless you know the users well you can open yourself to a world of hurt. The Internet is wide open to people downloading and uploading things. You don't want to waste your life explaining it wasn't you

    You can spend quite a lot of time creating legal paperwork to cover your ass beforehand but unless you are/will be an ISP/hotel it's not really worth it businesswise.

    --
    Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
  51. Lock it down - physically by yuri+benjamin · · Score: 1

    Here's what I would do.

    Have a firwall/gateway PC in a locked cupboard with a UPS.
    Have RJ45 sockets throughout the house for tenants to plug their own laptops into.

    You could make a diskless (boot-from-LAN) LTSP client available for tenants who don't bring their own computer. Once they get past the xdm(or kdm or gdm) login screen (guest login username and password supplied when they pick up the keys for the house) they will get a customised desktop with an icon labeled "Surf the web" - anyone who has used any modern gui will be able to work out what to do next.

    --
    You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
  52. If you won't be there, you'll need more automation by digital+photo · · Score: 1

    Well, here's the thing:

    Knoppix and other CD boot distro's basically take a long time to boot. If for some reason the CD fouls due to condensation or something else, the system just won't boot.

    The people will also not be able to download PDF files/etc if they are bigger than the temp space available from memory.

    With a boot CD, you are basically going to want/need more ram and a fast CD drive to make it bearable.

    The same issues of boot times and downloadables applies to Ghost/disk state keepers. If people are going to be there for a few days, it is unreasonable to wipe the system if it needs to boot or to boot it in the middle of the night since the guests might still be using it.

    Before you look at the software, you have to look at the needs of the guests.

    We're talking about vacationing guests, right? So what do people who are visiting do with a computer?

    • Check Email (web based or SSH/TELNET)
    • Surf the web for fun/shopping (web based)
    • Getting directions (web based)
    • Maybe look at their pictures on their camera or wanting to upload to their webpage, etc.

    So you basically need to provide a locked down system with a good web browser, a SSH client, and maybe some tools like openoffice/etc.

    Okay, how would I do it?

    1) Use Linux. You have more options as to how to setup and restrict the system. Since you are connected to the internet, even if you lock down your box, you could be hit by a virus. Since you aren't there during the summer, this is a big issue. Use Linux. (A mac would be cost prohibitive, in my mind.)

    2) Have Linux boot and make just about everything read-only. The only thing which should be possible to write to would by the guest home account and /tmp.

    3) Have the machine be hard to mess with:

    • Lock out the BIOS
    • Setup boot from HD only. Don't allow boots from CD. (unless you have the computer in another room)
    • Keep the computer in a locked case, preforably in another room with a cable for the monitor, keyboard, and mouse in the guest room.

    4) Have a recovery CD handy which can rebuild the entire system just by booting from the CD.

    5) Put the machine behind a firewall. Yes, it's Linux, but put it behind a firewall. Even a cheap $50 firewall/switch/hub will work. That way, the Linux box won't have a real IP address, but will be NAT'ing to the outside world.

    6) Have a laminated howto cheat sheet near the computer terminal for people to use.

    7) Wipe the system only AFTER guests have checked out, if at all. This should only involve wiping and rebuilding the guest account to prevent web caches, keys, and passwords from being seen by the next guest.

    Why Linux? Because you can get a cheapo X86 box with good performance and put Linux on it by downloading it off of the web. You can customize and lock it down to a good level and script almost all of the "clean system", "rebuild system", etc functions you need. You will have little to worry about in the case of virii and you will have a relatively low-zero maintenance system once it has been simplified.

    I'd steer clear of booting the OS from a CD because it is slow and the system is less responsive. Use the CD option for "fixing" the linux box when it goes down with a "boot to rebuild" CD. Hard disks are cheap, fast, and offer more storage than a CD can. That means more software options and even internal backup images of the working system.

    In either case, good luck! ^_^