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Seattle Wireless TV Releases June 2004 Show

drewzhrodague writes "Seattle Wireless TV just released their June 2004 Show, containing a segment by (me) Drew from WiFiMaps, called 'Booze and Wi-Fi,' which is an interview with Doug Luce from Telarama (the world's third ISP). Doug talks about their successful ultra-low-cost hotspot setup, and shows us how they are being deployed. Also, Jason Levitt of Less Networks presents 'How Less Networks and Austin City Wireless Project beat T-Mobile,' a presentation on why every day should be a free Wi-Fi day, how a $100 press release with a good message is worth more than a million-dollar ad campaign, and about their AP/captive-portal setup. Check it out for Realplayer, Windows Media, or MPEG torrent."

64 comments

  1. Anyone else concerned about... by dotslashconfig · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The spread of free WiFi and possible security breaches by cyber criminals? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have easy access to information of my coffee break. But what is to prevent a person from using wireless access, which probably isn't as closely monitored (user by user), to avoid restrictions/restraints on their personal access? It seems like until we have methods for identifying criminals on a wireless network, and locking down security, free access is extended to even those who would abuse it.

    Is there anyone who is better versed on this matter who can enlighten me as to security procedures in these "hot-spots" that the article praises?

    1. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by Siva · · Score: 3, Interesting

      what's to stop that same person from going into a public library and using a public access terminal?

      --

      Keyboard not found.
      Press F1 to continue.
    2. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by nick0909 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am semi-concerned, but there are so many places to get free access already. The library, schools, universities, internet cafe. Some even let you bring your own computer and just plug into their Cat 5 (thats the way we do it at my school if you don't have WiFi). So, it might make it easier, but its not already impossible.

    3. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      If we let the criminals use the streets and highways then they can get away faster! Untill we have some sort of road regulation we are letting the criminals drive too.

    4. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by 3terrabyte · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The spread of pay phones and possible security breaches by terminal criminals? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have easy access to calling people on my coffee break. But what is to prevent a person from using a pay phone, which probably isn't as closely monitored (user by user), to avoid restrictions/restraints on their personal dialing? It seems like until we have methods for identifying criminals on a pay phone, and locking down security, public access is extended to even those who would abuse it.

      Is there anyone 2 year old who is better versed on this matter who can enlighten my dumb ass as to security procedures in these "pay phones" that the article praises?

      --

      Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?

    5. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by 3terrabyte · · Score: 2, Funny
      Sadly, I have recently found out that at my library, we now have to type in our library card number to log on to their very, very secured computers to access the internet.

      Never thought I'd have to steal a peak at someone else's library card before...

      --

      Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?

    6. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Never thought I'd have to steal a peak at someone else's library card before..."

      Neither has anyone else, so I doubt they'd treat it securely.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    7. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We are talking about ease of hacking and launching viri to the wild anonymously. Not simple phone phreaking or cussing up a storm to someone via crankcall.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    8. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So, to paraphrase what you're saying:

      The spread of curdled milk and possible security breaches by curd-lovers? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have easy access to all that curdled goodness on my coffee break. But what is to prevent a person from using curdled dairy products for devious activities during their personal use? It seems like until we have methods for identifying criminals that hold these curdled dairy containers, and locking down security, public curd consumption is extended to even those who would abuse it. ... in other words, you use a completely inadequate analogy. While phone networks are similar to data networks, and are actually mostly digital themselves nowadays, it misses the requirements of being a proper analogy; that is, having critical similarities that make it analogous.

      The simple fact is that data networks are much more vulnerable in general to use activities than a phone network, and have more known vulnerabilities to boot. A person (or a group of persons) could theoretically take down large amounts of connectivity (DNS, gateway routers, etc.), destroy financial information (bank security, etc.), or what have you with -relative- ease. There are a lot more tools, and a lot more tools for making tools, available on the Internet. Phone networks are significantly less versatile.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    9. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      We are talking about ease of hacking and launching viri to the wild anonymously. Not simple phone phreaking or cussing up a storm to someone via crankcall.
      I'll play paraphrase.
      We are talking about ease of using public phones to set up murders/credit card fraud/drug deals anonymously. Not simple data loss by people too stupid or ignorant to secure their own system.

    10. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't you ever heard of an Acoustic Coupler, or millennium public phones with built in data jacks?

    11. Re:Anyone else concerned about... by 3terrabyte · · Score: 1

      You're thinking about the networks. I'm talking about being anonymous while doing certain activities. Like using a pay phone to order a hit.

      --

      Why are there only 19 people folding@home for slashdot?

  2. links by Chr1s-Cr0ss · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that this story has 8 different links in it? I dont have that much time man! I've got things to do... uh... people to....
    Ah, who'm I kidding?

    [begins clicking]

    --

    68.3% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
  3. World's 3rd ISP ? by gorim · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, I went to their web page to read up on the story, and they say they were founded in 1991 as the world's first ISP.

    I question this big time. Tons of the huge ISP's existed before 1991. So, in what way are they claiming to be 3rd ? Context is everything, if there is to be any amount of truth to a statement, assuming there is any truth.

    On the other hand, at least they don't have the balls to say they are 1st or 2nd.

    1. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by nacturation · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, well my company is uh... FOURTH! Right! Telerama beat me to the registration office by a minute, so they got the prestige of being third. Want another unverifiable fact? Bill Gates and Steve Jobs both made private anonymous investments in my company!

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... or Third World ISP

    3. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by sjalex · · Score: 1

      Sure, AOL, the well, mindspring, all those and others were "online providers" way back when, but there weren't really any ISPs so early on: AOL didn't even have internet access until the mid-nineties. It wasn't a lot more than a big bloated BBS. Ten years ago the Internet was mostly educational, experimental, and government sites. more .edu's than .com's that's for sure.

    4. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is true -- at that time, you could not just call Earthlink, and order dialup Internet. SLIP was a new thing, and unless you were a university student, or invaded their computer clusters, you could not get Internet. Nobody heard of this stuff. People were using Compuserve, and dialing into BBSs.

      I used to dial-in to one of Doug's multiline chat-thing experiments, as well as some of the other BBSs in the Pittsburgh area. Unless you had a unix account at CMU or Pitt, there was no way to get Internet. Telerama was one of the first.

      Wonder when good ol' Ed DeHart started Pittsburgh OnLine, I never asked him.

      --
      Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    5. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ISP = Internet Service Provider

      In 1991 there weren't very many companies out there providing dial-up
      Internet access meant for personal users. For years, Telerama was the
      only way I knew for one to affordably do email, news, and ftp without
      being affiliated with a university, government entity, or technology
      company. Remember, at the time the Internet (big "I") wasn't even
      "commercial", so they were definitely pushing the envelope.

    6. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the day, telerama was the bomb. I have fond memories of using my old shell account, IRCing with my green text all hours of the night, meeting all kinds of great people (including my first girlfriend when I was 15) on #telerama. Those were the days..

  4. Re:World's 3rd ISP ? [oops[ by gorim · · Score: 1

    ...as the world's first ISP....

    Oops sorry, meant to say "third". I should have previewed a 3rd time myself.

  5. Have the site work ... by soul_on_fire2001 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Check it out for Realplayer, Windows Media, or MPEG torrent."

    Checked it out. Does not work. Wish they made their site work before they do anything enterprising.

    1. Re:Have the site work ... by djkoolaide · · Score: 0, Redundant

      uh, yes it does work... i'm downloading through bittorrent right now

    2. Re:Have the site work ... by peter-swntv · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Just checked the Windows Media, Real and BitTorrent links, they work just fine.

    3. Re:Have the site work ... by rasz · · Score: 2, Informative

      torrent works fine, but OMFG a 900MB file !! Thats going to fill up my monthly quota :/ (lame 5gb for a 10$ a month).
      And now i read they didnt edited the video, just great. I'm a little pissed. I want to see it, but i definitelly dont want to see someone figuring out the remote for a 200mb of the movie :(.

      16 hours do download, I just love those 128kBit DLS lines :P.

    4. Re:Have the site work ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you complain on Slashdot and assume the rest of us care that you're too cheap to pay for a real ISP?

    5. Re:Have the site work ... by rasz · · Score: 1

      _offtopic_
      Well, thats the ONLY ISP in Polands capital city (thats not even funny). They got three plans. 128, 320 and 640 kbit, all two times more expensive than France Telecom counterparts. My ISP is owned by France Telecom. France Telecom has some serious cash flow problems .. so they charge 2x in Poland. Thats very kind of them. I simply LOVE my provider. Overpriced, offering silly 128/96 DSL for $13 a month, being virtually a monopoly in the capital city LOL.
      _/offtopic_

      Besides I was'nt ranting only at my provider, but at the files length. I recently downloaded a movie taken at our univeristy WiFi meeting, it was 42minutes and 120MB (320x240@25). Quality was poor, but the content is important, not the eye candy. They also gave ppt presentation with it so I could watch it in my own pace. Half of this movie is about the powerpoint presentation .. taken on a DV camera and produced using MPEG1 compression, thats ehrm not too smart to say at least.

  6. editing? by drivers · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was just watching the video which includes someone giving a powerpoint-esqe presentation. Right now they are trying to figure out why the remote control doesn't advance the slide. How about some video editing? I don't really need to relive the entire experience.

  7. 700MB would be nice, too :) by timothy · · Score: 2, Funny

    There's some rough editing, as you say, but the more annoying thing is that the MPEG version of the show (whether in the editing process or the compression phase) isn't boiled down to a nice CD-R size like 700MB. 900+ makes it too large for a single disk, and a fair chunk of my hard drive :)

    timothy

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
  8. T-Moble? by JessLeah · · Score: 1, Informative

    ...What the heck is T-Moble? ;) Could you mean T-Mobile?

    1. Re:T-Moble? by whiteranger99x · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Probably...much like how some knockoff appliances sell themselves as Sornys, Fridgeadoors, Panaphonics, or Magnetboxes.

      --
      Join the TWIT army now!
    2. Re:T-Moble? by peter-swntv · · Score: 1

      Good catch, fixed it on the site.

  9. Less Networks = Bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Less Networks is simply a commercial scam making use of free software, their stuff runs on top of free software which anyone can get, and the only benefit of running their software as a AP provider is that its a centralized login server, which in theory is nice, but in reality is just a scam to collect information on users. I would seriously recommend people look at alternatives over LessNetworks and never trust Richard McKinneon, as he's a spin doctor who only has interest in making money off it in the end.

    -C-

  10. Doug Luce is a good guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    before u all go ape shit questioning Doug Luce and Telerama being third....

    Telerama has been around since way back... probably at the point where most of you still were living at home and getting allowance and using your parents computer.

    If Telerama wasn't third they were damn close.

    Prior to the Telerama ISP, Doug ran some pretty nifty home brewed multi-line chat system that was used a lot by the locals here in Pittsburgh.

    Over the years Doug has taken his geekiness and crafted both a sustainable business and tried his hand at supporting all sorts of cool things like this. He's a real genuine guy and not some office suit bore.

    Even his employees are a different kind of folk. Liberal open minded and unix focused.

    -p

    1. Re:Doug Luce is a good guy by gorim · · Score: 1


      Sorry, but in 1991 I spent half my day on the internet on a Sun workstation that someone else paid for.

      Doesn't matter how nifty or nice they are. I will take you at your word they are basically decent and good folk.

      But someone who has the balls to claim they were 3rd, in 1991, when the internet had already existed for years as a combination of various tcp/ip service providers, oughta provide a bit more context for that claim, or use appropriate qualifiers, such as, "when they opened up the internet for little guys who could sell access to folx at home, we were 3rd" or something like that. I can at least see that possibility, but anything else without qualifiers or context is intentional stretching of the truth .

    2. Re:Doug Luce is a good guy by drewzhrodague · · Score: 2, Informative

      So, I guess I could have posted that they were the third "public" ISP, since universities mostly made up the Internet at the time.

      Universities are not really Internet Service Providers, they're Universities. Companies like Telerama were into providing Internet, as opposed to creating the Internet.

      --
      Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  11. "Wireless" TV? by Blaede · · Score: 5, Funny

    What a breakthrough! And all these years I'd been thinking, "if someone could just come up with a way to deliver content that didn't require my TV to be tethered to a cable, they'd make millions!" Can you imagine the possibilites? One could take a small portable TV, plug it into a power connection, turn it on and start watching! Heck you could watch it in the middle of nowhere, and no longer depend on your local cable company for programming. Why didn't they think of this sooner?

    1. Re:"Wireless" TV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Why didn't they think of this sooner?

      They did... it's called UHF. There is a documentary on the subject staring Mr. Yankavic.

    2. Re:"Wireless" TV? by ColaMan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't laugh - see the Sony Wireless TV.

      I saw that and thought WTF?!? They're marketing a wireless TV? This is THE BEGINNING OF THE END of marketing!

      "Yeah, this TV it's, er, wireless - it's the new hotness. Only cost me 3 grand!"
      "Wait, you mean wireless, like all TV's have been since their orginal release in the 1930's?"
      "Er... Go away now."

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    3. Re:"Wireless" TV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh...Sony != Sharp.

      Get yer links right sunshine!

      Zep--

  12. Content is the key by Alice_Pleasance_Lidd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wireless media distribution is great, but even harder to search and find what you're looking for than text. If anyone can broadcast, the people who co-operate to create something creative and engaging will come out on top. If you create something worth seeing, it ought to make it onto a conventional TV network, though they seem to have lost the concept of "worth seeing."

  13. i knew it by vena · · Score: 1

    sooner or later, i knew they'd find a way to make computers run on gasoline too.

    damn oil barrons!

    1. Re:i knew it by JessLeah · · Score: 1

      That's "barons", you fucking retard.

    2. Re:i knew it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh no, a misspelling on the interweb! call the cops!

      you poor, lonely child.

  14. Free the webservers! by nfsilkey · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Naughty submitter for asking the slashdotters to _stream media_ from his/her/its website. Everyone should do seattlewireless the favor and nab the ~900mb mpeg1 version of the show via bittorrent here.

  15. Brilliant idea. by dj245 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    how a $100 press release with a good message is worth more than a million-dollar ad campaign,

    This is a great idea. If only these press releases could be posted to a major news site that hundreds of thousands of nerds read every day, think of the exposure! Hey, wait a minute....

    --
    Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  16. Experimenter's relay board by fantasmicmickey · · Score: 1

    Does anyone know any details about their custom relay board that does the remote reboot of the devices??? Can I build this myself and what linux software are they using to control it? I would love to find a low cost solution do this to reboot devices and PC's remotely.

    1. Re:Experimenter's relay board by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm not going to download that boring 900 meg sucker, but describe what you're talking about and I can come up with a workable design. If they're rebooting computers by dialing or networking to another computer, then no sweat. Simple app (I've written one, many others exist) to control the pins on the parallel port, and basically a few optoisolators and either relays to cut and restore power to devices without reset buttons, or a transistor to the reset pins on a computer. Suppose you could even have the control computer (wouldn't need to be a real fast one) periodically test each device over the network and reboot it if it didn't respond. A couple of shell scripts and some cron jobs is all it takes.

  17. WORST WIFI PROMO EVER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    the guys in the video are your sterotypical planet zyclon nerds, and the guy who has the most time is a yutz. why would he not implement/mention the hostap driver for linux and save more more? advanced filtering and thottling i would've mentioned, and he keeps comparing himself to t-mobile but doens't have a single graph from an anual report or any figures. he also seems stoned, but that could be me.

    i thought these seatlewireless.com people were cooler than this. BLARG

  18. I met with the FBI again last week. by drewzhrodague · · Score: 2, Informative

    I met with the FBI again last week, and that was one of their concerns -- "bad guys", as they call 'em, can hop onto wireless networks rather anonymously, and perform computer crimes. It's hard to track them down, unlike a those using a wired connection. Phishing, spamming, warez, the whole lot.

    However, what they're seeing is NOT a flood of computer crimes using wireless technologies. Couple isolated incidents here and there, but mostly from people who don't think first (and get caught).

    So, while the security issues are definately a concern, it doesn't seem to be any additional concern, especially for the FBI. Check out the ncfta for more information.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  19. Third Segment for SWNTV by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    This is my third segment for Seattle Wireless TV. I learned quite a bit by way of journalism-by-fire. I had fun interviewing Doug, he's used to the media exposure, and -- as you see -- went right through it.

    Of course, Doug treated me to a 7 course sashimi meal at Umi in Shadyside, as well as a couple of drinks downstairs at my favorite place, Soba (espresso martini was a good idea, the irish car bomb was not).

    Since there aren't any other Wi-Fi related TV shows, tips and suggestions are always welcome, as well as submissions of video content.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  20. Good Lord.. by cybrchld · · Score: 1

    I just watched the segment with the lessnetworks guy promoting the free wireless access in Austin. Besides being the worst presentation I've ever seen .The first thing that comes to mind is why complicate things they aren't making any profit they obviously don't have a business model and aren't interested. Wouldn't it be simpler for the owner of any establishment that wants to offer free WIFI to get a DSL line and pop in a wireless router like a leave it open.