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Delta Air Invests $25 Million in RFID for Luggage
securitas writes "The New York Times' Barnaby Feder reports on Delta Air Lines' plans to invest $25 million in RFID luggage tracking hardware and software over the next two years. This sounds very similar to the Jacksonville Airport RFID plan. McCarran International Airport in Las Vegas and Hong Kong International Airport have also announced plans to use RFID technology in their operations. More at the Cincinnati Enquirer and the Boston Globe."
The ones that go along with any mention of RFID, and drown out legitimate concerns.
I heard yesterday that people were now forced to label their cases while travelling using the French Railways, will it be possible that in a near future, they will be given RFIDs when purchasing train tickets ?
What about the Swiss who have the "Abonnement General" ?
Will they have to pre-order these ?
Trolling using another account since 2005.
well that and the cool little keyfobs we use at work. A while ago, I took the chip out of mine, and replanted it into my pen, confuses people when your opening the door with an inkpen. Seems like a good case for "the pen is mightier" quote
Within the arms of tragedy, there is little comfort in being right.
do i let them know where my _oh-so-private_ luggage is?
or do i prefer not having it lost every third flight across the atlantic and taking no responsibility for it?
hmm...
is useless. There needs to be a standard definied AND there has to be a mapping back to the current barcode standard so that luggage can still be handled at airports that haven't yet upgraded.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Put the RFID chips in their tags, so I can remove them when the flight is over, why should this be a big deal. They already use barcodes on the tags.
What hilarity could ensue if I packed my own RFID tags? Of course, this would assume that I had the capability to encode them, knew Delta's encoding scheme, and wasn't scared by the thought of losing either my luggage or my personal freedom, but hey, what a hack, right?
DELTITE #1: "Uhh, Dave, the system shows 1,337 bags just came off that DC-9. I'm taking my lunch break now, let me know how that turns out."
DELTITE #2: "!"
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Spyware gets under your skin. RFID *IS* under your skin.
Ask me about my vow of silence!
The new airbus A380 will be capable of holding over 800 passengers in full economy mode. Knowing the general vicinity of your bag out of 1200 (assuming 1.5 bags stowed per psgnr) is still only limiting it to a pile of 800.
think of the implications for the privacy of luggage? Suitcases have rights...feelings..emotions too, you know!
I imagine Tin Foil hats are not allowed on aircraft. Something to do with interfering with radar / comms / etc
WTF? Airlines MUST track your luggage. I want them to track it. Hell, this is common sense. I don't have any need for spyware to track me so it is completely different.
...oh wait, you mean they can use it to find my luggage when it gets lost or shipped on the wrong flight?
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
I, just as anyone else here, is worried over the potential abuse of this system, but there can be improvements as well.
I dont know whether its such an issue here, but outside US, anyone or anything can walk in to a baggage terminal and walk off with someone else's bag with out being stopped. And Usually this happens when the owner of the baggage hasnt gotten to the baggage terminal from the gate. What if Delta has a counter where travellers once they collect their baggage and on their way out, can scan their RFID's, verify they were the rightful owner of the bag and then remove the RFID to go their own merry way? Someone trying to steal the baggage could get flagged since his RFID will still be in place when he attempts to leave..
This might lead to long lines again in the baggage terminal and can cost the airline more, but does this make sense?
Rapid Nirvana
I don't care if they know where my suitcase is, just as long as they don't know there is a dead hooker in it.
remember, what happens in vegas, stays in vegas.
- Barcodes
- Credit Cards
- Drivers Licenses
- Grocery discount cards
- License Plates
- Cookies
Free Mac Mini
This is an important point! My tinfoil hats in my luggage may interfere with the RFID tracking! This means I'll lose my hats, the government wil be able to spy on me, and I'll lose my luggage!
Do these people not think the issues through?
"But, I'm in New York and I leave for California tomorrow."
"No, problem. We can give you realtime tracking information as your baggage follows you around the country."
Good point...and, down the road, I'm sure there will be real-world Spybots and Ad-Awares that will scan your clothes and other items looking for RFID items that you can them remove/disable. Remember, there were radar guns and then radar detectors. The marketplace will always respond.
Don't be a looter...and yes, I know that it's spelled with an "A" instead of an "E".
damn annoying.. they have to find the suitcase and offload it.. I'm sure this will make that a whole damn lot faster..
I often wonder what makes a person miss the flight at that point.... it's gotta be sex...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
In other news, slashdotters spend 25 million on tinfoil.
Nah, that's just a cover story to prevent people from guarding themselves against the intense psychotronic programming they do to air travellers in planes.
(Yes, I'm being silly. They can't do it in planes. That's what check-in lounges are for.)
many years ago (before elevated security) my uncle had a dog in the dog-safe cargo area of an airplane..... in short they lost the dog and it somehow got diverted to a wharehouse. he was pretty much told there was no easy way to find the dog if someone didn't hear it bark by chance. after much yelling they let him search a wharehouse. by the time he found the dog it had been there for over 2 days with no water. in the end the dog recovered 100%, but i am sure this kind of situation would make you think they are not so bad. if the RFID tags are slapped on like the current barcodes, is it a big deal? you rip it off at baggage claim. it's not like your bag get's a permanant tag on it that will track its traveling history.
it has to suck if a passenger ends up getting bumped from a flight last minute and Todd the baggage handler has to find that one passenger's bags. Actually last night my brother's flight was super delayed because some guy in first class threw a hissy fit about something and was ejected from the plane. it was while first class was still boarding so well in advance of the plane being loaded. theys till had to go in and find his luggage and pull it out. that has to be a lot of digging......
"- Cookies"
;)
With all those other physical objects, you need to specify what kind of cookies you're talking about. After all the extremely paranoid comments I've seen today, a comment like that just might put Oreo out of business.
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution recently asked some "what if"-type questions in response to speculation that Delta might file for a Chapter 11 reorg by the end of the year. I thought it kind of interesting when juxtaposed against their $25M proposal for RFID-bagtag thing.
Considering what Delta charges Cincinnatians (the most expensive airport (or #2) in the nation) they should be able to afford a BUTLER to carry each piece of luggage.
Of course, the rest of the time, the airlines all whine about being broke and ask congress for a big bailout.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
$25 million doesn't seem like all that large an investment, IMO. What does a single plane cost, after all? My guess is that they'll save $25 million over a few years just in terms of saved labor.
It's not "misplaced luggage" that's the problem, the industry is being coy and cute, it's more like stolen luggage, or luggage broken into, then purposely "lost" to hide evidence of the theft. Happens all the time, been a dodge they been underplaying for years now. Over the years in the US, you are more likely to have your luggage stolen and broken into by airport employees than from random people just taking luggage. Here's a recent example of some of the trusted "homeland security personnel" in action.
Before RFID:
Baggage Claim Desk: Your luggage was diverted.
Me: oh no to where?
Baggage Claim Desk: Bulgaria.
After RFID:
Baggage Claim Desk: Your luggage was diverted.
Me: oh no to where?
Baggage Claim Desk: Bulgaria.
We all get along together like tornadoes and trailer parks.
This, in a round about way, reminds me of something I learned in class the over day (the part about losing the dog). In the 727 there's a switch affectionately refered to as "the puppy snuffer". It closes a valve in the cargo hold the allows air out of the plane. If it's closed, no fresh air can get down there, nor can the area be heated since no air is circulating.
On a side note about the RFID tags. Purdue's Aviation Technology department has been doing research into this with United Airlines at their Denver base to help prevent theft of the luggage, it's apparently a huge problem there. Most of the RFID work is being done in the baggage sorting facility, not actually getting the baggage to the passengers. The airlines can save a huge amount of money by speeding up the movement of baggage through the terminal since less bags misrouted means less money spent on fixing the problem. The tags also speed up an airplane's turnaround time by getting the luggage to and from it faster.
You might want to try understanding what people are complaining about before you assume the argument will be made here.
Most of the concerns I've read about the use of RFID tags have been about:
1) Persistence - the tags last as long as you have the item they are attached to and can be difficult to find or remove. Not an issue here. The article states in the very first sentence that the tags are disposable. They are also likely to be mounted in a clearly visible manner.
2) Surreptitious - the tags can be read without the knowledge of the person holding them. Not really an issue here because the tags are attached to baggage that the customer is not going to be carrying with him.
Do try to understand the issues before you discount them as "tinfoil-hat ideas".
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
As of about ten years ago, air travelers in the US were informed that we were to leave our privacy behind at the security checkpoint. After presenting proof of id, submitting all bags for inspection, and stepping through a detector, the traveler knew that the "authorities" had a record of who they were, where they were going, and what they were (and weren't) carrying.
Face it. If you want privacy in your travel, you have two choices: avoid airports, or develop a very good false identity.
Given that I've left my privacy behind at the security checkpoint, anything that makes it easier for the airlines/airports to handle and transport my bags back to me at my final destination can't be seen as anything but a positive development.
The cure for cancer is coming: Reovirus
RFID tags are passive, meaning they only emit radiation when probed by a scanner. So, no interference with the plane electronics.
This comment does not exist.
Slashdot is to RFID as Greenpeace is to:
A) Puppies
B) Trombones
C) Nuclear power generation
D) Trees
Let's get this straight people - RFID tags are not the devil. They are a technology with the potential to be VERY useful. Do we really have to see EVERY story about EVERY use of RFID tags in the world? Why don't you guys hold off until someone, somewhere actually does something Orwellian with the technology before you spurt the hackneyed, luddite, anti-RFID propaganda?
Oh and just because you disagree doesn't mean I'm trolling. Fuck, that concept is tired too. Where's my coffee?
In other words, they still lose your luggage, but somtimes find it. Sorry sir your luggage was rerouted to Antarctica, we know where it is, but a polar bear is hoarding all of the luggage from light 456 at this moment. ***I know, there are no polar bears in antarctica, but you get the picture.
I think that any such complaints would be unfounded.
The article makes it clear that Delta is looking into RFID as replacement technology for (or maybe companion technology to) Barcodes for Airline-supplied luggage tracking systems. Every piece of luggage that leaves the check-in desk has a luggage tag on it supplied by the carrier / airport. This is not new. There is no increased erosion of privacy here.
I think it is safe to assume that such tags are as temporary as the current Paper ones that they attach to luggage or boxes.
Now (putting on his tinfoil hat) when the Government mandates that all luggage travelling on planes require special 'government-approved' Travel tags that are pre-verified by some government or police authority, then I'll start getting concerned!!
Don't get me wrong, this is great for the current system of taking 2 hrs to get people through security checkpoints, loaded onto the plane, along with tons of luggage, and then offloading them.
I just took a flight to boston from Philadelphia. The entire trip from parking at philadelphia to landing at boston took close to 3 hrs. It's probably 6 hours drive to boston. I'm not really saving much time here. Fortunately my company paid for it, but it was amazingly expensive because it was booked last minute for a customer.
What I want to see is the Air Taxi system that NASA and the FAA were working on. This was an overhaul in the Air Traffic control system which would open up new options in air travel. An Air Taxi could simply be a small prop or smaller jet plane that would be cheaper to fly and maintain, and it would be a lot easier to get on and off... like a taxi!
Or how about some MagLev trains? A 300+ Mph train on a safe and easy to maintain elevated track. If we could just find a way to create the infrastructure, we could make transportation more affordable and easier.
As it stands, our current system is old and antiquated and inconvenient... and expensive! We need some disruptive technologies to get a foothold. Changing the nature of travel will solve more problems than trying to put patches on the current system. I consider this RF solution a patch on a much larger problem.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
They've been using barcoded tags for years to sort luggage. This would save the trouble of having to use a reader on a specific target. It's already been pointed out, tear off the tags when you retrieve your bags and you're anonymous again.
I work in a library, and RFID has been trying to make its way in for years. The tags for this type of use have a range of only a few feet. The applications range from inventory by just passing a reader down the rows of items while they're still on the shelf, to security gates that tell you what item(s) someone just walked off with, instead of just sending off an alarm and starting the guessing games, or checking in a half dozen items at a time by placing a stack on a reader.
RFID is not always the beast...
I guess what it's going to come down to is this: which is more annoying, losing your luggage, or losing your privacy?
Considering how LITTLE privacy we have in airports these days anyway, I'd rather take a little assurance that my drawers will make it on the plane after the security guards are done sniffing them.
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Suppose my luggage wants to go on an unplanned excursion and get away from all the hussle and bussle of the airport luggage system. Suppose it wants to take a more scenic route. Lord knows is has before.
I think it is safe to assume that such tags are as temporary as the current Paper ones that they attach to luggage or boxes.
I do, too - but we're hoping for the best. Other posts wrongly ASSume that all RFID tags within consumer goods will be as easily removed...
The potential for abuse is obviously greater than barcodes, which are (duh) visible. Many, many fears about this technology would be alleviated if the presence of RFID tags was not surrepitious. Instead of treating all customers like dolts, let's see our corporate overloads bend over backwards to inform us and dispel the misinformation... or (sigh) perhaps they should be forced to disclose this - at least in the case of soft goods such as deodorant and sweaters! - as display some prudence and respect for their prey.
when the Government mandates that all luggage travelling on planes require special 'government-approved' Travel tags
The way airlines are bending over for the Government in matters of data "sharing" - which perhaps they must, or should - and then proceed to lie about it in some cases, the transition from corporate overlord tag to Government tag may get blurrier before we know it...
As another poster sagely said, "The more you rely on a system like this, the more it can hurt when a wrinkle comes along." There have been some pretty disheartening cases this year where Gov'mint officials refused to doubt the accuracy of their databases.
It's disappointing to see geeks ridicule other geeks for even attempting to acknowledge the Law of Intended Consequences. The faith of some in the benevolence of corporations and bureaucracies - future ones as well, building on the things we tolerate today - is vast and, well, stupefying.
<grrr>