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iPod: Your Portable Corporate Hellraiser

MrAndrews writes "In an article on ZDNet UK, a Gartner says that "Companies should consider banning portable storage devices such as Apple's iPod from corporate networks as they can be used to introduce malware or steal corporate data" I recently came into contact with a similar policy at a consulting firm that was concerned that top-secret information might escape through my USB watch, and made me leave it at the front desk every day. In that case, I know it was absurd overkill ... but is this concern a legitimate concern? No more music on the way into the office?"

80 of 679 comments (clear)

  1. Not so "absurd" by MoxCamel · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I recently came into contact with a similar policy at a consulting firm that was concerned that top-secret information might escape through my USB watch, and made me leave it at the front desk every day. In that case, I know it was absurd overkill ... but is this concern a legitimate concern?

    Not to skirt the question, but is this really "absurd overkill?" I'm sure that USB pens/watches/etc have been a boon to corporate espionage. With a USB storage device, you don't have to worry about burning CDs or emailing your stolen information off-site.

    Having said that, I do think that some companies need to quit treating their employees like potential criminals. But if you work for a company like mine, where the data is the company's life-blood I can completely understand why they'd want to keep your USB and other storage devices (like iPods) out of their space. (thin clients would have gone a long way towards solving this problem, but that's another discussion)

    1. Re:Not so "absurd" by Seth+Finklestein · · Score: 3, Funny

      Guns don't kill people. iPods kill people.

      Sincerely,
      Tom Ridge
      Homeland Security Chief and Microsoft beneficiary

      --
      I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
    2. Re:Not so "absurd" by therblig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To use a tired cliche, a security policy is as "strong as its weakest link." If people have access to web mail, CD burners, or other simple means of transferring data, then the policy is absurd. However, if strong security measures have been taken elsewhere, then this is perfectly reasonable, too.

      --

      I struggled for days and days and all I got was this lousy sig.

    3. Re:Not so "absurd" by palutke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      True, but that's not the entire purpose.

      Where I work (a DOD contractor) we can carry just about anything (except a camera). We are, however, required to register it with the security manager. In order to register it, you must give them permission to read the contents on the way into or out of the building. That allows them to maintain their illusion of safety while allowing employees to carry their preferred gadgets.

      I don't know of anyone actually being searched, however . . .

      --
      'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
    4. Re:Not so "absurd" by Enigma_Man · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that's the perfect solution. In the name of security, your stuff can be looked through. In the name of convenience, we won't look through it every time, and you can still keep it.

      -Jesse

      --
      Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
    5. Re:Not so "absurd" by networkBoy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We have a similar policy at my work. I even take my computer home with me (IBM T40) but some documents can not be opened without a decryption key from a keyserver (Authentica system). Makes working at home a pain, but hey. I can take my jukebox into work with me no problem (essentially a usb2 20gig hdd). But if I dare to bring my camera phone into the Lab areas (cube farm no problem) it's instant reprimand. 2nd offence is suspension w/o pay and third is term. (never heard of anyone being terminated though).

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    6. Re:Not so "absurd" by akaina · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's all good and well, but there are these things that have been used for years to facilitate corporate espionage, they're called floppy disks.

      Also, what's the point of taking a watch? Unless they do a strip search, you'll always be able to get information out of the building.

      --
      Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose.
    7. Re:Not so "absurd" by SilentChris · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you're missing the point. It's a deterant. They're basically saying "You bring that in here, we'll be watching you." Coupled with security cameras throughout the building (which a company like this would likely have) the average thief would think twice.

      It's similar to those guys with automatic weapons at airports. Do you think they'd ever fire one off in a crowd? No. But it's a deterant to bombers and the like, because it's basically saying "we'll shoot you before you get to your mission". Ditto on the X-ray scans and other crazy security measures in place. Thiefs/criminals like to stay hidden, not be put in the spotlight.

    8. Re:Not so "absurd" by ch-chuck · · Score: 5, Interesting

      (except a camera)

      True story: a former supervisor took a Sony Mavica (uses a dos fmt floppy disk) onboard a ship with Soviet missles where he should not have and took pictures of them. When the rent-a-cop spotted this he asked that the pictures be deleted. My super handed me the disk and we did the old dos 'undelete' trick with Norton Utilitues and got the pictures back, no problem ;) This was after '96.

      --
      try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
    9. Re:Not so "absurd" by tfb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the saboteurs you should be worrying about (or rather, you should be worrying, but this won't stop them), it's the fools. The people who think it's fine to take something home and put it on their machine, which is sitting on a DSL line without much security. Your corporate firewall is now as weak as the security on this machine.

    10. Re:Not so "absurd" by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I could steal the source to all my company's software and related documentation on my USB key. Of course, I could upload it to my home computer or some other site with no USB key. Who could tell the difference with SSH? Instead, they trust me. I signed the NDA and I honor it.

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
    11. Re:Not so "absurd" by Yewbert · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Not to skirt the question, but is this really "absurd overkill?" I'm sure that USB pens/watches/etc have been a boon to corporate espionage.

      I'm not yet sure if it's going to fall into the category of "absurd overkill," but at my workplace (a large FDA-regulated manufacturing and research facility), we've just disabled USB support entirely on the machines comprising our HVAC distributed control system. The reasons behind this are partly due to, first, questionable processes of vendor-support technicians using their USB thumb-drives to move system configuration files around from one network instance to another (which is perfectly reasonable and needed sometimes, it's just that they're doing it ad hoc without supervision and, under FDA regs, this raises the questions of 'how much control do we really have over our system?' and 'has the system's "validated" state been disturbed by this laxness?'), and second, as far as we've been able to tell, the anti-virus software we use doesn't automatically scan, say, thumb-drives when they mount (though it really seems that it should, and I still need to do some investigation there in my copious free time).

      On the side of the argument calling it all "absurd overkill" - this clamp-down just makes it that much more inconvenient for people using the system to do their job, while not really tightening security up that much, since most people who have access to the system in the first place can figure out plenty of work-arounds. (Hell, part of my job is figuring out those work-arounds - it's why they pay me the Big Bucks(TM), (yeah, right).)

    12. Re:Not so "absurd" by dasmegabyte · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Word. I've noticed a lot of people seem to think that corporate IT policy is a chance to get everyone to comply to their extreme viewpoints or get out of dodge; basically, to create a set of rules everybody will have to circumvent to get their jobs done, all in the hopes of being able to wag a finger and punish when things don't work out perfectly.

      I've got a big problem with this. For one, it's an overstepping of power...this may not be "my network," but it sure as shit isn't yours, either. Does the janitor own the toilets he cleans out? Do I own the spaghetti code I have to wade through? Hell no. They're all part of a bigger organization: the company. And if you're alienating the rest of the company on a regular basis, you're going to discover some hefty resistance to your policies -- which is asking for trouble.

      Want the perfect network policy? "Only you can prevent forest fires." Keep your users happy, keep them informed, don't make a mountain out of a molehill, admit your mistakes, ask for help and make strong suggestions. People watching people of their own free will is a much better way to prevent viruses, spyware and espionage then indemnifying yourself while the rest of the company is smugglying MuVos in their underpants.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    13. Re:Not so "absurd" by smart+elik · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yea that's a good idea about the camera. Intel thought they had the most secure system in the world. No removable media. Only one workstation contained the data. And it wasn't networked. On top of that it was in a secure location. So the thief on the inside brought in his camera and took a picture of the screen....hit page down....take a picture...hit page down.... Low tech but it smuggled all the designs for the Pentium chip out and over to China.

    14. Re:Not so "absurd" by Octagon+Most · · Score: 5, Funny

      "What's to stop you simply encrypting the data, then wrapping it up or tagging it on the end of valid MP3 songs?"

      Honesty. Dislike of prison. Attachment to receiving a paycheck. Fear of John Ashcroft.

      Any number of things.

    15. Re:Not so "absurd" by MORTAR_COMBAT! · · Score: 3, Funny

      Me: Gun Nerd.

      Gee, with a name like grassy knoll I would never have guessed...

      --
      MORTAR COMBAT!
    16. Re:Not so "absurd" by kelzer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And in the mean time, the actual thieves simply carry in their USB storage device hidden away in their pocket, without registering it, and leave without any search.

      This is just another example of a stupid law or policy that does nothing to prevent theft, but inconveniences the honest people.

      --

      ---------------------------------------------
      SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    17. Re:Not so "absurd" by maximilln · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We are, however, required to register it with the security manager

      I could tuck one of the USB sticks in my tie and no one would ever notice. Half the women in the place could have one in their purse next to the lipstick.

      Wake me up when policy starts taking reality into account.

      --
      +++ATHZ 99:5:80
    18. Re:Not so "absurd" by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There have been no publically known hijackings since 9/11/01.

      The biggest change in air security since 9/11/01 hasn't come from the (sometimes asinine) so-called security rules. It's been from a change in passenger attitude. Passengers are now being responsible for the safety of their aircraft and crew. Before the Twin Tower Trashing, passengers considered stewardess bashing a spectator sport. When the hijackers slit the throats of the cabin crew, the passengers just ummed and awwwed all the way into the other side of the building. No more.

      Nowadays, if somebody slaps a stewardess, he'll have half a dozen passengers on his back with another 20 standing by as backup. The shoe bomber was tackeled by fellow passengers not a sky marshall.

      Speaking of sky marshalls: I wouldn't want to be one, because if anybody sitting near me pulled a gun in the middle of a fracas on an aircraft, I'd be looking for limbs to dislocate and break long before (s)he had much of a chance to identify him/her self.

      As for smuggling weapons: I'd presumed, when I first heard of the Sept 11 hijackings, that they'd smuggled the weapons in as parts of a modified laptp or something similar. Something like that is still mind-numbingly easy to do. The only way you're going to prevent a determined hijacker from finding a way to smuggle a weapon onto an aircraft would be to force passengers to strip and wear those disposable paper suits on board -- even then, you'd need to do cavity searches.

      But it really doesn't matter because, even if you did manage to pull a gun out of your ass, the passenger next to you would just as likely toss you out the emergency exit as sit by with big eyes watching things unfold.

      --
      Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
    19. Re:Not so "absurd" by peg0cjs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is lawyers getting in the way of common sense again. While it's true that it inconveniences the innocent and doesn't affect the guilty, it does give the company legal weight behind prosecution/persecution if they can point at the policy and say "You broke the corporate policy so you're fired." In this way, they can attack people for breaking the policy instead of stealing data, cuz that's much harder to prove.

      IMHO, a USB storage device is no different than a photocopier on every floor, except for the capacity. How many times is your briefcase searched at the door to ensure you haven't photocopied/printed sensitive info? A much better approach is to secure the data in the first place to ensure that untrustworthy people don't have access to it at all. Now all we need is a retina scanner that can differentiate between the untrustworthy and the everyday masses.

      --
      Karma: Excellent (Mainly due to Bill & Ted's Karma Adventure)
  2. Funny you think that way. by Gannoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In that case, I know it was absurd overkill ... but is this concern a legitimate concern? No more music on the way into the office?"

    No, its just a matter of scale. There are no real legitimate concerns, but every company will balance employee happiness vs the 1 in 10000 chance something will go horribly wrong with a USB watch, and just ban everything outright.

  3. A valid concern by slusich · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I work for a casino, and we don't allow our employees to bring in such devices either. I'm sure it still happens, but such policies are important when your customer database is vital to your income.

  4. Common Policy by hypnotik · · Score: 4, Informative

    My father works in the Aerospace industry. He is required to leave his iPAQ at the front door every day.

    Is this overkill? Perhaps. But sometimes such heavyhanded policies make sense, especially when it comes to making war.

    --
    (I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
    1. Re:Common Policy by halowolf · · Score: 5, Interesting
      In my former full time job, I got to visit a company that specialised in tempest shielding and the like. After I finished the job I was doing there, they showed me around, showing how they could read a remote monitor, tv, cable, all sorts of things. They even jammed my mobile phone for me, so I could see how such things worked in action.

      That day I wanted a tin foil hat lol.

    2. Re:Common Policy by jrexilius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      hehehe.. yeah, I remember my counter-intel classes going over that stuff. It gives you an idea of just how unsecure things are if smart people with resources decide to make things otherwise.

      MASINT was another really cool area if you are interested in exploring the uses of technology.

  5. just the reverse here.. by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    corperate just recently issued 1GB thumb drives to all employees. we find it's easier for the users to back up their own crap and transfer it that way.

    teaching a user about network storage or even using the IRDA file transfer was unsucessful... yet these dolts took to using the thumb drives like it was second nature.

    so now usb storage devices are required and issued to users.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  6. Not so new by Scutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to work at a government defense contractor and this type of policy was standard there. No CD players, no radios, nothing with any type electronics could be brought in just in case they could somehow be used as a transmitter or to steal data or something. Oddly enough, floppies could be used. Go figure.

    --

    "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
  7. Come again? by TopShelf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recently came into contact with a similar policy at a consulting firm that was concerned that top-secret information might escape through my USB watch, and made me leave it at the front desk every day. In that case, I know it was absurd overkill ...

    How is that overkill? Sounds like a common-sense move for a firm that wants to take steps so that sensitive information doesn't just walk out the door. It's not that much different than walking in with a USB CD burner under your arm.

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  8. Second step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Seems to me the first step should be to disable USB on machines which do not need it in the BIOS then lock the BIOS....

    1. Re:Second step? by scrytch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Disable removable storage, disable addition of new devices by normal users. Presto. Now they can't tunnel their secrets out to their cell phone with a usb bluetooth adaptor either. However, wherever there is the ability to transmit information -- that's information in the theory sense, as in a single bit corresponding to agreed upon relevant data -- you're going to have covert channels. Short of sticking folks onto standalone computers in a faraday cage (i.e. SCI) you're going to have covert channels. Heck, even then if you personally trust the guy leaking the secrets, that info is carried out in the brain. Just that "take my word for it" isn't usually considered good intel (unless you're George W. Bush looking for WMD's)

      --
      I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
    2. Re:Second step? by dasmegabyte · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Typical heavy handed IT lunacy. You're making it harder to use a possibly essential device on a machine you didn't know might need it, creating more work for yourself while gaining little to no security, as potential theives would just go to a machine that didn't have USB disabled.

      I've been subverting this type of network policy since second grade, and it's easy because it lulls you into a false sense of security. "I don't have to worry about X machine, I've locked it down!" Meanwhile, us grade school kids are running video games through the shell in WordPerfect.

      Want a secure network? Stop with the locks and start with the spies. Befriend your users and make them your eyes and ears. Remind them not to trust anybody and help them identify suspicious activities. Most of all, make them care. That's tough to do. But unlike being an asshole, it actually works.

      --
      Hey freaks: now you're ju
    3. Re:Second step? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Seems to me the first step should be to disable USB on machines which do not need it in the BIOS then lock the BIOS....

      Sounds like a good idea. This should keep those crum-bums from stealing data from my workstation with their USB dri- hey, why did my mouse stop working???

  9. This isn't overreacting. by PhxBlue · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recently came into contact with a similar policy at a consulting firm that was concerned that top-secret information might escape through my USB watch, and made me leave it at the front desk every day.

    That's actually pretty generous if you're actually serious about the information the consultant handled being Top Secret. Even if it isn't, that's a much better alternative (for you) than being "let go" because you continued to wear a prohibited device after being told not to.

    --
    !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
  10. Re:Old fashioned iPod... by Gannoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Cute.

    Makes me thankful for my original iPod with it's Firewire connectivity only, there's no firewire ports in this office.


    Yes, like you're going to win that arguement at the security door/HR rep/etc. "But my ipod only has a firewire interface, unable to connect to the computers here!"

    To them, that sounds like technical nonsense that makes you even more suspecious. "He mentioned fire!"

  11. Legitimate complaint,obvious alternates by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, that's a pretty legitimate complaint, especially if you work in a secure building. You can't just be coming in and out with a portable hard drive and copying mechanism every day if you have secret clearance and work on DOD stuff, so it makes sense that other companies would follow suit. Besides, it's not like CD players, tape players, mp3 cd players, radios, live365.com, etc. don't exist! Just like checking your guns before entering a saloon makes sense, so does this. Sure, you might not use it, but if you did, people would sue.

    --
    stuff |
  12. Are Those Corporate Secrets in Your Pocket? by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...or are you just glad to see me?

    Seriously, the barn door's been open and the horse halfway to Topeka on this one for a while. Who needs an iPod? I've been carrying around virtually my entire business on one of these things for over a year. Sure, take away my music player, phone, key chain, watch, whatever, I'm a big boy and you pay me enough to play along, but at what point short of a strip search and replacing the pink-haired receptionist with a Brinks guard to watch over the stash does this policy become a smidge unwieldy?

    (However, I do throw my whole-hearted support behind any policy which confiscates iPods (or sunglasses, for that matter) from any too-cool-for-the-room tool who doesn't stow them shortly after he enters the building...)

    1. Re:Are Those Corporate Secrets in Your Pocket? by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 3, Funny

      Congrats; you've successfully identified yourself as a style-hating, youth-jealous, stodgy old man.

      Where've you been? I established that here years ago.

      You self-absorbed kids need to pay better attention...

  13. Not "absurd" by Eagle7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Banning personal portable storage devices (iPods, USB, powerful calculators w/ a computer connection, etc) is pretty much standard (and smart!) pratice when either government or industry classified/proprietary information is available. The risks are simply too great... the chance of soldiers dying due to a security violation or a company going under due to industrial espionage greatly trumps your desire to have a silly USB watch on your wrist all the time. If you don't like that reality, then don't take jobs that put you in contact with that sort of information in the first place.

    --
    _sig_ is away
  14. German c't magazine showed how to disable USB... by flowerp · · Score: 5, Informative

    The German c't magazine recently had a short article about disabling the USB storage driver for non-administrator users on Windows 2000 and XP - effectively eliminating the security risk. This policy could be enforced by any system administrator on all desktops. Similar things could be done for Firewire ports and storage devices that attach to it. Basically it works by making the driver non-readable and non-executable for the average Joe Schmoe user logging into the system.

    Bring your own USB sticks? No problem. Can't use em anymore ;)

    Christian

    --
    --- Eat my sig.
  15. Mod this guy up ... by YankeeInExile · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That is interesting (that your users were confused by using a network file share, but found the thumb drives intuitive.)

    Is it the fact that there is a physical artifact that makes the idea of "your files are going here" easier to map into their worldview? UI Designers Take Note. This might be on the test.

    --
    How does the Slashdot Effect happen given that no slashdotters ever RTFA?
    1. Re:Mod this guy up ... by haystor · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That would be my guess. After supporting a customer service system as a programmer and trying to pull troubleshooting information out of them for a while I learned that they think in terms of location.

      They would say things like, "This data isn't in this program." They thought of the data as being in a specific program. If all their programs stopped retreiving data at once they would tell me that all the programs were broken rather than the database was down. No amount of explanation could convince them the data was in the database. For their purposes their view of things was perfectly appropriate I suppose, but it didn't help troubleshooting.

      --
      t
    2. Re:Mod this guy up ... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A cheaper, and more secure, alternative would be to use a floppy disk as an ID device. They put it in, their network map shows up, they copy the data. They remove the device, their network map disappears, and they go home.

      It has several advantages...first, they don't have to remember to "disconnect" the flash drive. Less chance of losing data. Second, you still have that mental association between the data and the floppy. Third, the data is on a central server, where backups are made regularly. Fourth...the floppy could be formatted to only, say, 512 bytes of data. (I'm sure you can tweak superformat's settings to do that...) Nowhere near enough space to remove sensitive data from the premisis, let alone a normal filesystem.)

      And if the user loses his floppy, issue him a new "key" and his old data. If you want, add some sort of CRC to the numerical key on the floppy, so that data corruption is less of a risk. Or put a backup of your only sector on the other side of the disk.

  16. Easy to bypass riduculous security precautions by mirio · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know, I could bypass such security precautions very easily with a USB keyfob and tightly squeezed buttocks....

    1. Re:Easy to bypass riduculous security precautions by SilentScream · · Score: 3, Funny

      So you're saying to be a good data thief it helps to be anal retentive?

  17. At the very large financial corporation I work at by M-2 · · Score: 5, Funny

    At one point the corporate machine-support staff tried to set up the following:

    • All laptops in the building must be formatted to the corporate image (personal or not, connected to the network or not)
    • All PDAs had to be hard-reset before leaving the building unless your manager approved it
    • Any other device with a USB port had to be opened and checked by the desktop support group

    The sneaky bastards kept trying to steal my laptop, my PDA and my Nomad Jukebox to do this. I kept catching them and throwing them out of my cube (at one point, literally, as he refused to leave until he had formatted my laptop's hard drive and I had to roll him out in my chair and overturn it in the corridor).

    Finally, they stopped that after they did this to an senior VP and erased the powerpoint presentation he had on his laptop. Heads rolled for THAT little debacle. The funny part was that his machine was already work-provided, he just didn't work in our building, so they didn't know him...

  18. Depends on strictness by jawtheshark · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I work as a contractor at a bank. Now, they are extremely paranoid about data being carried out of the bank. The only thing is: they aren't consequent. Yeah, they locked down the internet. Nobody can access it unless, you go on a second network that has internet access. No PC here has a CD drive (so no importing of your favourite games, screensavers and other crap and warez)

    But they do allow diskettes (friggin diskettes! Do you know how much customer data you can put on a diskette?). Then I also found out that the "internet-network" (which only internals have access to with a NT username/password) operates simply on DHCP, no MAC address checking: the only "security-check" is the NT-Domain login. Why did I find this out? Simple: these morons allow contractors to have laptops, so I once just plugged it in that network. Worked instantly. Now there is a security concern in my eyes! For crying out loud, I have a Mac, I don't even need a crosscable to pump over data from my work-PC to my Mac. Imagine what kind of data I could take away with that! Nobody evere stopped me at the entrance/exit with my laptop bag. Nobody.

    You see, if you want security, you need to ban every device that can be networked somehow. It's that simple. Yes, this includes your iPod. So, I supect that this is only a great concern in governmental instituation (top-secret clearance), but in the "highly sensitive environment" of banking they don't get it at all.

    Hey, I pointed out their flaws and I was told to shut up.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  19. weighing the benefits by bodrell · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Yes, iPods and USB watches are security concerns for many companies. But if an employee wants to do their employer damage, an iPod is not required. I think it's more dangerous to treat employees with distrust, because it makes them much more likely to scheme of more malicious ways to cause trouble.

    Those in charge of company security should remember that these same employees bringing in iPods are the ones who were issued key cards to get into the building. Companies have no choice but to give their workers the benefit of the doubt.

    --
    Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a soportar Si la vida me da palo, yo la voy a espabilar
  20. Employee concerns... by Luckboy · · Score: 5, Funny

    You know, if your employees actually CARE about hooking up their iPods or other MP3 players at work, you should be more concerned about what your employees are actually DOING, as opposed to what data could be stolen. My iPod's Library is managed by my home machine, not my work machine, and the only reason I bring it inside is to keep it out of my hot car during the day. I don't even bring a cable that would be compatible.

    I'll just burn the site licensed software to CD and take it home that way...

  21. Re:From the Fascist Department by doktorstop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    nonsense... I run a pretty secure net here (secondary school, HUGE threat from any teenager who just happen to think he is a XaxooR)... we got everything so locked down that we didnt have a single major incident for the last year =) And still, yes, portable USB devices are a threat... can't telnet from the school due to policies? just bring Putty on a memory stick... et voila! Therefore, it is not so much about network security, but what you allow people to do on the network... with the saaumption that any memory stick can contain software you DONT WANT inside your net.

    --
    http://www.automatiq.se
  22. This is a legitimate concern by thewiz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Most military bases have banned PDAs, USB Flash drives, iPods (and variants), cell phones, and any other device that can be connected to a computer and can store data. Some have even gone as far as removing diskette drives and banning CD-RW and DVD-RW drives on new systems. I have seen incidents where people decided to put classified military data on a flash drive or floppy to take it home to work on it. This happened even after people sign an agreement and go through repeated training sessions where they spell out what will happen if they do something like this.

    Corporations are having to deal with this same problem as portable devices can now be used to store data or take pictures that could compromise sensitive data. However, this has always been an issue. A systems administrator could walk out of work with and 4mm or 8mm tape full of sensitive/classified data and no one would know. It boils down to a matter of trust and integrity; do you trust the people who use/administer your systems? Have they shown the integrity in other matters that would indicate they can be trusted with more sensitive matters?

    Unfortunately, it only takes one person in a sensitive position to screw it up for everyone else.

    --
    If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
  23. Re:From the Fascist Department by Kenja · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please explain how to secure a network so that hte users dont have access to data but can still do their job.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  24. iPod as theft/espionage device is well established by phearlez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not in some movie - Cringley wrote about seeing a man walk into CompUSA, plug his 1st gen iPod into a mac there and drag the MS Office folders onto it. The article claimed (I have no idea how true it is/was) that Office will re-establish the system folder items necessary so this amounted to a perfect and complete copy of the software.

    That said, certainly the benign uses outnumber the malicious ones. The question is, if you have other data control policies, do you need to CYA by having this ban so you can respond to suspicious activities decisively? I also think comparisons to more easily concealed USB key devices isn't reasonable - I can't fit a large ACT! database of contacts on one of those but I can on a 40g devices.

    --
    Bad management trumps ideology - Show the world you want better leadership. http://www.timefornewmanagement.com
  25. What about other methods of stealing secrets? by HappyFunnyFoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Do corporations outlaw email because someone could smuggle an important corporate document through a simple email attachment? You can put a heck of a lot of info on a single freemail attachment in a text file, and / or use a corporate POP3 mailserver too. Do corporations also outlaw CD-Rs because they could be used to copy important data? Do corporations outlaw floppy discs? And, above all, do corporations give their employees a darned internet connection to begin with? What about the internet itself? If someone is truly paranoid about security, it'd be more effective to plug already existing giant holes in security, and completely strip their employees of all the fundamental tools of the information age. It's hard to prevent the exchange of information on the computer: after all, a computer is a device specifically designed for just that purpose, anyways. If someone goes through all the trouble to smuggle files on an iPod when he could simply PGP encrypt them over email, it would be an act of stupidity anyways. Conclusively, it's a bad idea banning the iPods from offices. -Foo

  26. It's a realistic threat by lachlan76 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because you can't always just assume that a hacker is stealing information every time, it's realistic to assume that someone in your organisation would give away information for the right price.

    The malware aspect though, from my viewpoint though is FUD, because (as far as I know), iPods and flash memory sticks don't run software when you plug them in. I could be wrong though. But I know people who have had 200+ spyware apps, and it's never happened to them. 200 isn't that much compared to some, but I've known him a few years, and being the only Open source guy he knows should give me some influence. Just remember, the weakest link is always the people.

    And, for the record, my friend now had dumped IE, and moved to Firefox. It's offtopic I know, but I spent an hour browsing Secunia tonight, and set up a couple of the exploits (IE is vulnerable to all the ones I tried), so I know how easy it is to bring Malware onto a windows box. In short, I'm scared shitless, and anyone who brings in data from a source which hasn't been checked is just asking for trouble. Perhaps if the networks moved to a platform that was less truoblesome ;)

    It's my opinion though, that you can either trust an employee, or you can't. If you trust someone with the data, you should not worry about their iPod, or not trust them in the first place.

  27. Instead of banning the devices outright... by petard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Companies should consider hiring trusted professionals. If you hire quality, professional employees and explain the policy against putting corporate data on personal devices, this should not be a problem.

    Believe it or not, most professionals want to do a good job and take pride in their work. If you set reasonable policies and explain them clearly, most will want to follow them.

    Do you want to grant someone enough access to your data that they could copy it onto an iPod if you don't trust them to abide by your policies? If they have that kind of access to the data, copying it to an iPod is far from the only or best way to get it out, and you're just adding an inconvenience to your employees' lives without meaningfully increasing your own security. If you believe that banning these devices would help, your problems run much deeper and you should rethink the way you're doing business.

    --
    .sig: file not found
    1. Re:Instead of banning the devices outright... by pknoll · · Score: 3, Informative
      It's a tough problem to solve, that's for sure. I'll bet close to every single corporate spy on the planet is the very model of a high-quality, professional employee.

      I'm certain all of them will gaze with a steady stare and nod gravely when you explain the corporate policy against data on personal devices.

      And I'm convinced if you have a policy against bringing such devices to the workplace, you'll never ever see one carrying one.

      The "solution" of banning the devices is the wrong one, I'll grant you, but the companies here probably just can't think of anything else to do that's as easy as the stroke of a pen in the rulebook. Hiring employees you can trust is done exactly how? How do you know you can trust them? How long does someone have to work for you before you -know- they're not going to burn you?

      There were Soviet spies who lived as "normal" Americans for decades before becoming active. With all the money in corporate espionage at stake, I'm sure you could find a few poeple who would work to become trusted for years, until they could strike, possibly gaining access to more data the entire time.

  28. More at the movies by randomErr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Remember last year, the movie 'The Recruit'? One of its big premises was that a CIA agent was smuggling out data; but they couldn't figure out who was stealing the information, and how. The smuggling device turned out to a common USB flash drive hidden under a coffee thermos's seal. The USB drive didn't come up in the CIA scans because the drive wasn't active; the inactive drive wasn't giving off any EM for them to detect.

    I think USB, IR, and now 802.11 devices and Bluetooth enabled cell phones could be a real concern for data centric firms.

    As a side thought, companies may begin to ban cell phones as well. Late last year SlashDot had an article about a cell phone detection device made in Israel. People were leaving modified cell phone in planters. The modified phones would transmit the conversation of anyone in the room for about a week. Thus making a cheap spy toy.

    --
    You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
  29. Yay, another social problem "solved" by a ban! by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In much the same way as the demise of Napster brought about the end of filesharing, banning iPods from work will wipe out corporate secret stealing. Nobody will ever think to tunnel data through SSH, copy data onto floppies, USB keychain storage devices, portable laptops, or magnetic tape. Surely, nobody will upload information to their Palm or Windows CE handheld devices; nobody will print out data and take it home; nobody will call someone on the telephone and read them data over the phone.

    Man, they've sure got all their bases covered!

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  30. A company I'm working for... by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ...has "tighented" security by, among other things, setting the Windows policy so that shares can't be created.

    The result? Now everyone walks around with a USB drive to move files around, or they email them to and from gmail, etc. (OR they use their iPods/Dell Pods, SonyPods)

    So the system, overall, is a LOT less secure because all the company's assets are kicking around in email and USB thumb drives. But the folks in IT can cluck their tounges and think they did something useful.

  31. Re:From the Fascist Department by eraser.cpp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The employees at companies using this policy likey have access to confidential information. Copying that to the usb storage device and walking out the door is very possible, and the only way to secure the network against this is to actually ban the devices from entry. It's absurd to just declare that a company enforcing this policy does not "run a secure network", because banning people from read access to information necessary for their job is not going to work.

  32. Re:From the Fascist Department by ldspartan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    can't telnet from the school due to policies? just bring Putty on a memory stick ... I'm confused, wouldn't this be better addressed with a packet filter instead of removing the telnet binary? What happens if a kid brings a laptop in?

    --
    lds

  33. Re:Just to get this out of the way... by ThatDamnMurphyGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just one more. What about printers? Oh yeah, pens and paper?

  34. Ways your employer can keep you from stealing... by jea6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My company works with the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (the folks who print the bills). The Bureau issues transparent vinyl purses and packs for employees to carry their lunch and belongings. This makes it easier to see whether somebody is walking off with sheets of un-cut currency.

    We also worked with the US Mint (the folks who mint the coinage). They told a story about metal detectors tied to biometrics that were so sensitive that when a woman became pregnant, the changes in the metal chemistry of her blood (increased iron, etc...) were enough to have to retake the biometric scan. That one always seemed apocryphal to me (but a very cool concept nonetheless).

    --

    sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.
  35. Completely backwards. by baadfood · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For better or worse, personal storage is going to increase. Cellphones, watches, ipods, all these things are becomming increasingly necessary to remain competativly productive in the modern world. Companies that dont figure out how to allow employees to use PDAs or cellphones or USB thumbdrives are going to find themselves at a disadvantage relative to companies that allow their employees to discover new ways to increase their productivity.

  36. Re:From the Fascist Department by SilentChris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wow. Whoever marked this as "insightful" needs to take off their Bondi Blue glasses.

    You guys do know that the minute an employee enters a "secure" network, they're pretty much clear to do whatever they want, right? The security is on the perimeter: getting in is the hard part. If employees needed to type a password for every keystroke, they're be a mass-exodus of white-collar workers.

    I'm not saying conditions like that don't exist. I'm sure the computers that run missles and the like have multiple passwords that have to be entered all the time, but the average worker isn't going to be subjected to something like this.

    Now, disable USB drives from being connected hardware-wise: that's an idea. Not sure if there's a way to do that in software, but I'm sure there's a way in the BIOS.

  37. Re:From the Fascist Department by joebok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not everybody is a criminal or has criminal intentions. If you don't trust an employee with an iPod, please explain why you would trust them to have access to the data in order to do their job?

    A policy against iPods and other USB or other portable devices applied blindly is illusionary security at best. There are countless ways for a dishonest employee to steal data - the only mitigating factor is going to be how secure the network is - that should be the primary focus of any system administrator.

  38. some solutions by ciryon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Storage devices are security threats that should be taken seriously. The best way is not to refuse employees listening to music but rather

    * hide computers away or lock them up so they can't be physically accessed. This should be combined with tight firewalls for outgoing traffic.

    or

    * make limitations in the software so USB storage devices or firefire disks simply won't work. Of course users can't have administrative rights.

    or

    * disallow sensitive information from reaching employees computers. Store things on secure servers.

    I'm right now sitting at work on one of the largest corporations in the telecom business and we sure as hell don't have enough security.

    Ciryon

  39. Friend of a friend story... by SnapShot · · Score: 3, Funny

    A friend of a friend mentioned that when the iPod first came out he saw a student "jammin'" to some tunes while checking out the new Macintosh computers at the University Bookstore.

    A closer look revealed that the student had the firewire cable attached to the demo mac and was busily downloading all of the applications on the mac.

    Pretty clever though I would never condone such behavior.

    --
    Waltz, nymph, for quick jigs vex Bud.
  40. can't stop me by ch-chuck · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's why I got the subdermal implant with 16mb flash and bluetooth. Just copy data to my stomach and walk out, search all you want.

    --
    try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
  41. Its fair and often REQUIRED for business by mritunjai · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hey

    I work in India in a major software park. The company in the oppposite quadrant is a typicall BPO company and they have a LARGE poster stuck outside the entrace - "Please get checked and declare all your belongings at security". Several friends too told of similar rules in their companies.

    In short, for BPO firms, the data of their clients is of utmost importance. Even CEO of the company is required to go through the mandatory check! Internet access is locked down. No CDROM/CDRW/Floppy/USB/Firewire ! Even printer access is restricted and fully logged and accounted for!

    You can get fired for trying to access an irrelevent site (eg Yahoo briefcase), forget about bringing in that 40GB iPod or your favorite USB key.

    Oh yeah, did I tell you that even cameras are forbidden and you'd be handed over to police if you're seen taking a "group picture" with your team mates in the office! A camera phone can send you in for good.

    Folks, its sometimes business *requirement* not to allow such kind of things. You want to listen to music ? Fine, bring along a vanilla walkman/discman/portable MP3 CD player whatever... just leave the fancy gadgets behind and you'll be fine.

    Fortunately I work in a company that has fairly open policies and our data is our own, so the rules are less stringent... no CDRW/USB drive, but still very open policies.

    --
    - mritunjai
  42. Pulp fiction: the USB pendrive. by supergiovane · · Score: 3, Funny
    The Pen Drive
    written by Quentin Tarantino & Roger Avary

    Captain Koons: Hello, little man. Boy, I sure heard a bunch about you. See, I was a good friend of your dad's. We were in that .com pit of hell together over five years. Hopefully...you'll never have to experience this yourself, but when two men are in a situation like me and your Dad were, for as long as we were, you take on certain responsibilities of the other. If it had been me who had not made it, Major Coolidge would be talkin' right now to my son Jim. But the way it turned out is I'm talkin' to you, Butch. I got somethin' for you.
    (The Captain sits down and pulls a USB flash drive from his pocket)
    This pendrive I got here was first purchased by your great-grandfather during the first .com boom. It was bought in a little general store in Knoxville, Tennessee. Made by the first company to ever make USB drives. Up till then people just carried loads of floppies. It was bought by private Doughboy Erine Coolidge on the day he set sail for Paris. It was your great-grandfather's job drive and he wore it everyday he was in that job. When he had done his duty, he went home to your great-grandmother, took the pendrive off, put it an old coffee can, and in that can it stayed 'til your granddad Dane Coolidge was called upon by his country to go overseas and fight Microsoft once again. This time they called it Browser War II. Your great-grandfather gave this pendrive to your granddad for good luck. Unfortunately, Dane's luck wasn't as good as his old man's. Dane was a Java programmer and he was fired -- along with the other programmers at the battle of .NET. Your granddad was facing death, he knew it. None of those boys had any illusions about ever leavin' that job alive. So three days before Microsoft took the market, your granddad asked an Unix sysadmin of Winocki, a man he had never met before in his life, to deliver to his infant son, who he'd never seen in the flesh, his USB pendrive. Three days later, your granddad was dead. But Winocki kept his word. After the war was over, he paid a visit to your grandmother, delivering to your infant father, his Dad's pendrive. This pendrive. (holds it up, long pause) This drive was on your Daddy's pocket when he was caught near Redmond. He was captured, put in a Microsoft campus. He knew if the gooks ever saw the pendrive it'd be confiscated, taken away. The way your Dad looked at it, that pendrive was your birthright. He'd be damned if any slopes were gonna put their greasy yella hands on his boy's birthright. So he hid it in the one place he knew he could hide something. His ass. Five long years, he wore this pendrive up his ass. Then he died of dysentery, he gave me the drive. I hid this uncomfortable hunk of silicon up my ass two years. Then, after seven years, I was sent home to my family. And now, little man, I give the pendrive to you.

    --
    Signatures are for stupids.
  43. Another too little too late attempt... by derfla8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Corporate espionage is something that is feared; however, all this really does in inconvenience those who are using these devices legitimately. I would trust that in an organization who has a real security concern, that they would have appropriate ACLs in place so that data theft would be limited to what the user that already has security clearance.

    Now if you have already cleared someone to be viewing and working with such data, you have much bigger problems than fearing them stealing it with a USB device. It's like trusting your employees with your business in their day to day operations but keeping office supplies under lock and key. It just doesn't make sense. If someone is intent on ripping you off, they would't go for the small stuff. Similiarly, if your business depends on these people who have access to such "crown jewel" data you'd better hope that you have a good hiring process and that you are keeping your employees happy.

    A side rant: so you're all concerned about people with USB devices; yet, you're fine with shipping your data off to some foreign land for outsourcing. Hmmm... If only the world were based on logic!

  44. Re:German c't magazine showed how to disable USB.. by data64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does not prevent someone from booting up with a Knoppix CD and accessing the network and a USB key.

  45. New "Briefcase" Threatens Industry Security by jackrd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Alert! A new device, known as a "Briefcase" has been increasing in popularity in the workplace. While useful for ordinary business it brings with it some sinister baggage. This nefarious device serves to conceal a large amount of objects, such as sensitive data and staplers, in a small space, enabling employee theft and espionage. While it's true that file folders have been commonplace in corporate environments for years, this new product threatens to bring unforeseen and catastrophic results. Ban it before your company falls apart and you have to spend the rest of your life living in the street trying to support your starving family.

    I do think it makes sense for companies that already employ policies like searching employee belongings and metal detectors to add USB storage devices (and any data storage medium for that matter) to the list of things they check for. If you really needed to bring one in, you could have some sort of approval/checking process. As far as most companies go, I think it makes sense to judge based on whether they seem to be causing problems in the workplace, and if so, banning them or finding some other way to fix the problems. I think it would be a good idea to do virus-checking on insertion of any removeable media.

    I thought this was a particularly interesting quote:
    "Another potential danger is that the devices -- that typically make use of USB and FireWire -- could be used to steal large amounts of company data as they are faster to download to than CDs."
    I think they've been watching too many movies. I highly doubt that most downloading of corporate data happens in a down-to-the-second race against corporate security. I think it's much more likely that most data is stolen by those with official access and all the time in the world. And I may be naive, but I think a corporate spy would be able to think of a better way to export data than an iPod.

  46. Re:you're in the US, yes? by Entropy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The same Charleton Heston that said he didn't like AK-47s? That guns like that made him "nervous"?

    Charleton Heston is the President of the NRA, but the NRA is by no means the steadfast defender of guns and gun rights that the media tries to portray him as.

    Check out www.nrawol.com for more info on this.

    --
    The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
  47. Storage and Security by BStorm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The barn door has always been open. Same old problem just a different set of devices. What has changed is the ease, speed and volume of information that can be copied. Think of the fear that was generated in paranoid organizations after the wholesale adoption of photocopiers.

    A organization can best deal with the issue by treating their workers with a sense of respect. It will not prevent the employees with criminal intent from stealing information but innoculate honest workers from feeling a sense of entitlement.

    A possible technological fix is to ensure that copying data to/from a removable device is logged. This does not prevent the employee from taking work home but does allow for a system administrator to track where the data is going. However this means nothing unless the logs are reviewed. It is essentially a file-nanny.

    It does require that a security policy that is appropiate for the organizational goals and for departmental specifica goals.

    --
    Research is what I doing when I don't know what I am doing - Werner von Braun
  48. Re:you're in the US, yes? by Entropy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes I read the post.

    "even Charleton Heston would balk at this"

    That implies that Mr Heston is the "peachiest pie in the sky" when it comes to defending RKBA ... he is not. He is, like the NRA, weak and ready to compromise rights away at a moments notice.

    --
    The sea changes color, but the sea does not change.
  49. How about my cell phone? by qazwart · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you can't bring in your USB watch, how about my bluetooth cell phone? Okay, bluetooth technology isn't as common as USB, but my phone can hold a gigabyte of data. Plus, it has a camera, so I can take pictures of secured areas.

    How can your office stop someone from bringing in their cell phone? Or a USB key on their keychain? Or their PDA?

    I'd hate to be responsible for corporate data security now with all of these devices floating around. Someone could discretely download a lot of data onto their key chain. Heck, it is even easier with my bluetooth phone. I don't even need a wired connection, just be with in 15 feet of my PC. I don't even have to be near my PC in order to download data.

    A few years ago, I worked for a large financial corporation when someone stole the HR database and sold it to idenity thieves. Hundreds of us "highly compensated" employees suddently discovered that someone was using our identity to buy electronic hardware, get bank loans, etc.

    It took me five months to clean up the mess, and I was lucky. I found out about it the very day it happened because one of the stores that gave this guy instant credit called me to verify if I had just applied for credit.

    Still, in a twelve hour period, that person went to over 3 dozen different stores from Atlantic City to Philidelphia getting instant credit and buying over $200,000 of goodies. I could literally figure out which roads he took by looking at the various times he hit the stores and applied for credit.

    Other people weren't so lucky because they didn't find out about it until either a collection agent called, or they were denied credit because of this attack.

    And who was the person who gave the information to the thief? Heck, it could have been almost any lowly paid clerk in HR. If you're only making $30,000 per year, someone offers you $100K or so for this kind of information, and you know the likelyhood of you getting caught is almost nill, what would you do?

    Millions of employees with access to valuable data, and hundreds of ways to get around corporate security. Maybe 99.99% of your employees are dedicated, hardworking, and honest, but it's the other .01 percent that will destroy you.

  50. Depends on the Employer by Blic · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is probably expected at any sort of secure military or defense contracting site.

    I remember helping my father burn a CD full of MP3s once so he'd have something to listen to in the secure section where he worked. No portable radios or music players were allowed, no PDAs, no portable storage devices, nothing. The systems didn't have floppy drives or recordable CD drives and (obviously) weren't on the internet. I think that's just standard operating procedure.

    For the private sector, depends on the paranoia level I guess. You could fit a lot of data on a 40GB iPod... =)

  51. Re:They /are/ similar by decepty · · Score: 3, Informative

    You, sir, have watched Goldfinger one too many times... A single errant shot is not near big enough to depressurize a cabin. See here or here or here or... you get the point. Thanks for playing, try again.

    --
    Be careful! Bears shouldn't consume large furry dogs.