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TiVo vs. Windows Media Center Edition

Posted by timothy on from the compare-contrast dept.

The Importance of writes "Two reviewers make head-to-head comparisons of TiVo and Windows Media Center Edition (here and here). TiVo still comes out ahead, but MCE is improving. Of course, some tout the flexibility of PC-based DVRs, while others question what this flexibility means when you have things like the broadcast flag and the INDUCE Act."

36 of 335 comments (clear)

  1. Guess what... by Last_Available_Usern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hey...guess what I've never had to reboot so far...my Tivo. I don't intend for that to change anytime soon either.

  2. Sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting
    But anyone who picks a PC based solution is someone with too much time on their hands, and needs to examine their lifestyle, perhaps.

    Computers are a hobby of mine, and *I* don't have the time or patience to set something like this up. $149 for a Tivo gave me dual tuners, snappy interface and recording of the original DirecTV data stream (no quality loss). $6 a month? If $6 a month is even an issue to you, again, take a magnifying lens to your life. Something isn't working correctly.

    1. Re:Sorry by timts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a tv tuner card on pc can do much better than tivo, not to mention you have the ability to burn them on CDR, or burn them to DVDR, even DVD( on DVDR) and archive them. :D

    2. Re:Sorry by BillFarber · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Computers are a hobby of yours, but you don't have the time or patience to install a video capture card and beyondTV from snapstream?

      You might want to think about a new hobby if doing either of those strains your time or patience.

    3. Re:Sorry by AuMatar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      6 dollars a month for the rest of your life. Even if you need to buy all new hardware, thats a payback time of 1-2 years. At worst the time to do it will add another year to that. Plus you'll never need to buy a new pc. If you want the latest cool feature, just update the software. Thats a much better deal than a Tivo IMO. Besides, I hate being nickle and dimed by recurring payments. And I don't want to pay for a lifetime contract, what if Tivo goes out of business?

      That stated- Microsoft would not be my software of choice. I'd go Myth TV or the like.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:Sorry by spronk · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Recording TV shows is just one small part of what an HTPC does. A Tivo can't even come close to what something like MythTV can do. People get so hung up on the PVR aspects of HTPCs that they miss the bigger picture.

      Using a computer to replace a Tivo *is* rather silly. Using a computer to replace a CD player, DVD player, and Tivo plus provide Newsfeeds weather maps, video conferencing, create DVDs of your favorite shows and more not to mention provide that content to any room in your home isn't.

    5. Re:Sorry by rs25com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Besides the hurdles involved, I think the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) plays a bigger part than we think about. I tried the TV on PC thing, and when it crashed in the middle of a show, or I had to use the computer and she wanted to watch something.... Yeah, I still use Tivo for TV and my PC for PC. ;)

    6. Re:Sorry by isorox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      6 dollars a month for the rest of your life. Even if you need to buy all new hardware, thats a payback time of 1-2 years.

      Wow, $144 for a new PVR-ready computer?

      Dont get me wrong, a MythTV setup is much more expansive then tivo, but you can get Tivo and 5 years listings for the price.

    7. Re:Sorry by marcop · · Score: 4, Informative

      If $6 a month is even an issue to you, again, take a magnifying lens to your life.

      Don't forget that a PC will consume a lot more electricity than a Tivo. I haven't figured it out but I wouldn't be surprised if it cost around $10 a month more to keep a PC running 24/7 compared to a Tivo.

    8. Re:Sorry by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It may work fine for me, but if the whole family has to use it, it had better work perfectly 99.95% of the time. Features are wonderful, but if it doesn't work when you wife presses the "do this" button on the remote twice in a three month period, you may as well have purchased a rock with flashing lights on it.

      MediaPCs are still for hobbiests interested in playing around, not for consumer use.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  3. TiVo vs. MythTV by gmplague · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I want to see a comparison of TiVo vs. MythTV vs. Freevo vs. Media Center. From my experience, MythTV should definitely come up on top. I've got a box running MythTV that acts as my tivo, fileserver, network audio device, and game console. Can tivo do all that?

    --
    __________________________________________
    Take comfort in your ignorance.
    Grandmaster Plague
    1. Re:TiVo vs. MythTV by kannibal_klown · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Throw "SnapStream" into there as well.

      While not free, it's pretty cheap ($30 USD).

      My main PC doubles as a DVR when I'm not using it. It's a breeze to setup (as simple as you could possibly get, actually), looks wonderful, and functions very well.

      Granted, it requires some flavor of Windows (that can run .Net libraries), but it's still great. And they set it up that if the company ever goes under, you can point Snapstream to the same kind of data that Myth uses.

      It's really a must-see-to-believe thing. I thought it was going to be some cheezy software, but it is really well put together.

      However, I think a "Tivo" is a better solution. You don't have to sit there and configure stuff, update stuff, bla bla bla. It's relatively cheap (even with the lifetime subsription it's not that bad), and does everything you need (with the exception of burning the vids onto CD's or DVD's).

  4. hackable tivos would be even more flexable. by ron_ivi · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If only tivo embraced being hacked, they'd be even more flexable than a TV.


    Personally I think hardware companies should encourage this practice. I picked my wireless router because if it's readily available

    third party linux-firmware


    If Tivo encouraged this practice, they'd have far more than media center very quickly.

    1. Re:hackable tivos would be even more flexable. by foidulus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How large of the purchasing population actually wants to hack their stuff though?
      If there is a sufficient business case then companies will go after the money, but I don't really think there is that much of a business case for hackable hardware...

    2. Re:hackable tivos would be even more flexable. by Monsieur+Canard · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well they are hackable, just not fully supported by Tivo Inc.

      --
      He took a duck to the face at 250 knots.
    3. Re:hackable tivos would be even more flexable. by nchip · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even if you don't want to hack them yourself, buying hackable hardware means you can probably install easily hacks done by others, which increases the value of the hardware a lot.

      That's why I payed a little bit more on my phone (to get a symbian based one which allows you to install your own software instead of just java midlets), and a linksys Access Point.

      Most people do not yet realize that the lifetime of hackable hardware is a lot longer than locked hardware.

      --
      signatures pending - ansa@kos.to - (dont mail there)
    4. Re:hackable tivos would be even more flexable. by thinksnow · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, it's a shame there's nothing like that...

  5. Re:Personally by bje2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    that's exactly what i was thinking...don't let your anti-MS stance blind you to what they're doing...what if MS stumbles upon a cure for cancer...you just gonna ignore it, because MS discovered it???

    --

    "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
  6. forget MCE by BitchAss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's been covered a million times here, but MythTV does more than MCE or Tivo.

    One day I gave MCE a try and found it to be a dreadfull experience. Sure, some of the widgets and transitions were nice - and the remote was pretty sexy (anyone wanna help me write a driver for Linux?), but it just left me wanting more.

    I have most of my media living on a different machine - MCE had a hard time dealing with that. I had to import my mp3s (not oggs - god forbid) into Media Player before MCE would recognize them.

    Large movies were a pain too - MCE wanted a nice screen shot of each movie - so a directory with 10-15 divxs was painful to browse.

    I have MythTV set up with a PVR-250 and it's the best thing ever. Automatic commercial flagging? check Windows? Not even. So much better.

    --
    Like sex? Read and write about it! Indecent Blogging
    1. Re:forget MCE by BRock97 · · Score: 5, Informative

      - and the remote was pretty sexy (anyone wanna help me write a driver for Linux?)

      Take a look at the LIRC 0.7.0 snapshots. The Microsoft remote has been in there for quite some time and works well. In fact, you can use the IR receiver that comes with it and quite a few compatible IR remotes.

      I have MythTV set up with a PVR-250 and it's the best thing ever.

      Hear hear! I have a Myth server running two Hauppauge PVR 250s and it is smooth. The guide is smart enough that I just select two shows to record and it handles the rest. The best part is that I have a Myth client running in the main TV room that is a stripped down Dell 4600c which I got refurbished for $360that fits perfectly into the entertainment center. All the advantages of the two tuners, but the quiet-ness of a small form factor PC. Awesome stuff AND two TVs can use the same recording repository!

      --

      Bryan R.
      The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
    2. Re:forget MCE by xplosiv · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a reason Microsoft does not sell MCE over the counter, it's to avoid experiences such as yours. In order to provide a good experience, Microsoft provides minimum requirements to the OEM's in order to have a very optimized machine.

      If you were truly interested in giving MCE a try, you would have found that some of the bigger sites dedicated to this OS have articles/posts telling you how to disable this movie preview and how to deal with some of the other issues. Since you had this problem, I assume you downloaded a copy yourself, and didn't actually buy/test an OEM machine with MCE preconfigured.

      Last time I checked (few months ago), MythTV didn't support the FM tuner in the PVR series cards, Linux didn't support the RCA output on my Radeon 7000 series card (plenty of people use these cards in windows machines, including myself, without any problems), the remote was really hard to configure due to the lack of drivers, and the machine could not run 24/7 for more than a few days without running into some sort of problems.

      MythTV is a great application (I will be building another MythTV machine once I have more hardware), but unlike MCE, it isn't meant for the average consumer (which obviously you aren't, as you like to tinker), who in the end will determine which DVR/PVR 'OS' will become the dominant platform.

  7. Apples and Oranges by WizzleWizzleWizzle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that there will always be two markets; device and PC-based. Even if MCE is a pre-packaged, Microsoft deal, it still involves a desktop computer which not everyone has, or even, *gulp*, wants!

    Some people will always like to be able to control what is going on and configure their own system. Others will want nothing to do with configuration of any kind and will simply want it to work. Until M$ spins the MCE off into a device or integrates it with X-Box or whatever, the PC'ness of it will remain its barrier of entry to the mainstream.

    I deal with computers all day long and when I get time to watch TV, the last thing I want to think about are computers.

    --
    "I'm a karate man. Karate mans bleed on the inside."
    1. Re:Apples and Oranges by tyler_larson · · Score: 4, Funny
      From the article: Part of the MCE experience issue is that it's still a PC. [...] You need to re-boot from time to time.

      Spoken like a true Windows user.


      Tivo's a PC too, you know, it just doesn't run Windows.

      --
      "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea...."
      RFC 1925
  8. Component interoperability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was reading a magazine article a couple of weeks ago that made the claim that Windows Media Center is the emerging standard for component interconnect and control. IE, in the future you aren't going to have a different remote control for each component in your home theater system, but instead everything is going to be simply controlled through a Windows Media Center PC-like device. The magazine claimed ~250 vendors had already signed on (including many big names).

    I found this rather disheartening: Microsoft taking over yet another market. Sigh...

    FWIW, I don't remember the name of the magazine, but it was some god-awful Home Theater magazine that is really just an excuse for advertising.

  9. Re:Personally by darth_MALL · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Even if eventually MCE became the better product? (god of technology forbid)"
    Wouldn't it be a good thing to see MS bring out a product worth supporting? It's an awful lot of energy wasted trying to dislike something. Maybe they could earn the #1 spot for a change.

  10. All the INDUCE Act is going to mean . . . by base3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    . . . even if it does pass, is that vendors are going to be very careful when describng a product to only include non-infringing uses in its marketing material. It would be instructional to go look at the old ads for the GoVideo dual deck VCR. They talked about its lawful purposes, while revealing enough that someone with two brain cells would think "Whoa! I could use this to copiez teh movies!"

    --
    One CPU cycle wasted on digital restrictions management is ONE TOO MANY.
  11. Main reason I (and others) use Tivo by SilentChris · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, not Linux. No, not even ease of use. Picture quality with DirecTV. DirecTV with Tivo is the only solution I've seen that captures the satellite's MPEG stream perfectly, while still providing a usable interface (hear me, Dish Network?)

    I'd seriously consider building my own set, but there is no solution out there that doesn't have some analog to digital conversion at some point. And yes, it matters. Particularly if you have a 40" HDTV. Digital cable/satellite compression is pretty visible as it is; adding an analog conversion makes it look hideous.

    In my idea world, I'd have a media PC that played DVDs, stored CDs, streamed direct digital television (like my Tivo) and (as a luxury) was wirelessly connected to the internet. All of these features exist as different pieces in other machines, but no one has them all together.

  12. Re:Personally by Kenja · · Score: 5, Funny
    "what if MS stumbles upon a cure for cancer...you just gonna ignore it, because MS discovered it?"

    We dont need no DRM enabled cancer cure. The GPLed treatment is almost as good. Granted you need to swap out about half of your body parts to be compatible with it.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  13. What about the A/V Vendors? by grunt107 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A few years back the major a/v mfgs (like Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer) were supposedly agreeing on a common interface to their components, which could also be controlled by outside (read: PC) components. Has any of this gone forward? I would prefer the sonic advantage of standalone components, but would love to have server access (and use a live web connect as another "component"). Then MythTV (or TiVo) could be just another component enhanced by the home theatre system.

  14. Oddly? by Mr_Silver · · Score: 4, Informative
    Oddly, all recordings defaulted to starting five minutes before the scheduled time.

    Not really. Back in the days when you had to manually enter the start and end time of a programme and set the clock by hand it was common for people to set the video to start 5 minutes before and let it run up to 15 minutes after.

    This was to ensure that if your clock was slow, you didn't miss the first minute or so and if it overran, you didn't miss the crucial last scenes.

    Even software such as Gemstars Video+ system puts 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after by default.

    Of course in this day and age of self correcting clocks, on screen programming and the special tag that tells you when a programme finishes this buffer probably makes less and less sense.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
  15. Canada as safe haven by antarctican · · Score: 4, Interesting

    See, if I had the time and money I'd setup a company here in Canada where we don't have these insane laws limited consumer rights. Yes, it's getting worse up here, but for now I see this as the near-by safe haven for developing PVR type products safe from being sued.

    Yes, importing could be restricted, but it's not stopping us from sending you guys cheaper drugs to get around that piece of insanity by your government - catering to all of big business' demands....

    So look north, let us develop your PVRs, it'll be good for us, you'll have more freedom, and I can only hope we're sane enough to never let our government pass such outrageous laws.... Move MythTV's code base off-shore or north.... such a great solution. :)

  16. my MCE experience by xplosiv · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As someone who built his own MCE 2004 based machine, I have to admit I am VERY impressed with this OS. There is no way I would buy a TIVO now as I can customize this machine with any codecs and plugins I want and do as I please. People who say that the PC doesn't belong in the living room will have to wake up, Microsoft has figured this out a long time ago and are on the right track (there is still lots of room for improvement of course).

    My MCE 2004 machine (which runs 24/7) is 100% stable (the OS is based on XP sp1), even when keeping up to date with all the patches out there. I ended up getting rid of my SA8000 DVR from time warner because it is so reliable. There are addons out there such as the plugin which provides a nice interface to the video library (you pick the movie by clicking the 'cover', and it will automatically mount the ISO), or the web based interface. Add the fact that you can listen to FM radio using a PVR250MCE or PVR350 series TV tuner card, and you have a very nice entertainment machine. The only thing which comes close to this setup is MythTV (which I do like), but has some reliability & configuration issues which aren't user friendly.

    Since MCE can't be bought legally (you can only download it when you have a MSDN license), I will be 'buying' a second MCE machine once the next release comes out, and network the 2 machines (and other custom PVR machines which can share video data) so I can watch my video/dvd/broadcast anywhere in the house.

    1. Re:my MCE experience by spagma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Say what you want about Tivo, but I dont have to worry about my tivo getting hacked because I did visit windows update on a regular basis.

      --
      If it won't boot, Fsck it!
  17. PC will be the clear winner... by MaestroSartori · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...for those of us in the UK, at least as long as there continues to be no new Tivo kit worth buying. There are some decent PVRs apparently, but I'm told they all fall short on various aspects...

    --
    Game dev and music blog
  18. TiVo is a Linux based PC. by foooo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    TiVo is a Linux based PC. It is hackable enough to do a *lot* of interesting things that you can't on a normal TiVo.

    The reason why TiVo corporation doesn't support this "hacking" actively is that they need to be legally insulated from lawsuits.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/

    ~foooo

  19. Full Service Entertainment by eltoyoboyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The MCE box is a general-purpose WIndows XP machine, so you can use it as a web browser, email terminal, and game machine. ... Of course, the downside of this is that you have to keep your MCE up to date on patches and fixes-- something that might be an unwanted hassle for people who don't live patch management every day.

    So as long as you keep it disconnected from the internet, you are better off until MS figures out how to deliver TCP/IP safety to the masses. The MCE is feature rich and aimed towards providing a full entertainment control center for audio components (AF/FM CD/TAPE/Record Player/Digital jukebox) as well as video components (PVR/Tuner/DVD Player/Digital jukebox). The internet connectivity or broadband cable/satellite are going to be part of the experience too. So Microsoft is going to have to address the security problems to make this fully marketable. It is not going to do well if it has a big sticker that says "Warning: do not connect to the Internet".

    --
    Have you Meta Moderated t