DIY Cruise Missile Designer Turns Freelance

js7a writes "Bruce Simpson of New Zealand, the designer of a homebrew cruise missile as reported here, has been left destitute by hastily-imposed restrictions of his national authorities, and is now offering his services to any non-terrorist willing to provide room, board, travel, expenses, and a negotiated rate. There is no question that cruise missile, UAV, bio-warfare, chemical weapons technology, and probably nuclear technologies will all continue to fall in cost significantly for the foreseeable future."

Comments

Buh Bye

[mfh]

In other news, a New Zealand man, possibly Bruce Simpson, was found dead by neighbours this afternoon. Officials present stated that Mr. Simpson died from an apparent tooth brushing incident, rendering his neck severed due to an accidental slip/fall, caused when a shampoo bottle fell over and mixed with some dripped shower water on the floor. Sadly, Mr. Simpson's efforts to provide cruise missiles to Iran and North Korea are all but a distant memory. New Zealand investigating officials have ruled out any foul play, and have ruled it an accidental death. Iranian and North Korean officials had no comment.

Re:Buh Bye

[jabberjaw]

There is more truth to that than you know.

Re:Buh Bye

[Scrameustache]

In other news, a New Zealand man, possibly Bruce Simpson, was found dead by neighbours this afternoon.

There was this canadian in the 80's who had this obsession with building a giant cannon to cheaply launch satellites in orbit. It would obviously not do for humans because the initial acceleration would kill them, but for hardware, all you have to do is make sure everything is screwed tight. The economy on launch would be much greater than the extra cost in solidity. The added bonus is that you wouldn't have to launch from the tropics, it could work from as high up as canada, eh.

Well, he had the design, and some funding from the canadian military, he was building it. Then, the united states objected, and told its submissive neighbour to the north to stop it with the revolutionary launch technology: if canada wants to put stuff in orbit, all it has to do is ask and the states will let them hitch a ride from florida.

So the canadian military cut the guy's funding. He then fought like a madman trying to gain back the funds he needed to make his dream come true, but try as he may, nothing was enough. Until a certain wealthy dictator from the middle east agreed to fund his research. So our canadian swallowed his pride (and his ethic, he wanted to launch satellites, not make weapons) and headed off to Iraq to build his giant cannon. And build it he did.
he made a couple prototype, one of which was conspicuously pointed in the general direction of Israel. It wasn't working properly yet, when you make this go BOOM with this much force, it tends to take a bit of trial and error before nothing breaks when you do, but it was progressing.

Long story short, the guy was found dead in front of his hotel room, the keys in the lock, the very clean gun next to the body, with a single bullet in the back of the head.

The moral of the story: When the united state's military says you are not to build a giant cannon, you do not build a giant canon, be it by lack of funds or surplus of lead.

The end.

Re:Buh Bye

[timeOday]

The moral of the story: When the united state's military says you are not to build a giant cannon, you do not build a giant canon, be it by lack of funds or surplus of lead.

(Emphacis mine) Are you sure that wasn't Mossad?

Re:Buh Bye

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

Mossad, and Mr. Gerald Bull. Plenty of googlefodder if you're interested.

Re:Buh Bye

[Rei]

Good idea mentioning Bull, but a really, really bad description of his life.

Gerald Bull was a revolutionary ballistics designer; he was insturmental in pioneering such fields as sabot-launched projectiles (including the use of such projectiles for to replace hypersonic wind tunnel testing of objects). He also developed the concept of "base bleed" - in general,using a small rocket motor on the back of a projectile, not to provide thrust, but to fill the vaccum created as the projectile moves.

His first job after graduation was with CARDE, a Canadian research institution funded mostly by government projects. He worked on a few projects there, and due to his somewhat tactless nature (such as publicly questioning the intelligence of his funders at times), created his first enemies (in what was to become a long string of them).

While working at McGill University after CARDE, he got Pentagon and Canadian funding for the infamous HARP (High Altitude Research Project) (read Astronautix.com's summary of it - it's a very interesting read). HARP developed guns both in Barbados and Canada, with the Canadian guns used for testing, and the Barbados guns used for launches to take advantage of the Earth's rotation. The net goal of HARP was to get a projectile into orbit. Their main gun was a huge smoothbore made from two welded 16' naval guns, burning ungodly amounts of cordite; its fireball when it went off was huge ;) The cost of the project was tiny compared to most rocket programs, and they almost succeeded. Fascinating program, really.

A lot of stuff happened. Partly because of political differences over the Vietnam war, and partly because Bull had made several influential people in the Canadian government mad, funding got pulled. Their last dash to get a projectile into orbit failed, and the gun has been sitting idle ever since.

Bull took all of the tech that he could and founded his own company. While he wanted to keep pursuing what HARP was working on, he basically had little choice but to make artillery pieces if he wanted to stay afloat. Using base bleed, he created some of the world's longest range and most accurate artillery pieces of the time. The US allowed (some say encouraged) him to sell weapons to South Africa, which were funnelled into Angola. However, an (overzealous?) customs agent brought charges against him; he served a short term in prison, and was released, bitter.

He moved to Brussels and agreed to sell weapons to the highest bidder, anyone except the USSR. He sold several systems to countries such as China, before finding a sponsor in Saddam Hussein. However, to be allowed to implement the ballistic-launch concept, he agreed to work on several other projects, most notably the al-Hussein missiles (enhanced SCUDs).

The gun he worked on - often called the Babylon Supergun - wasn't much of a threat to anyone. It used the concept of slow combustion - basically, having your explosives move along the barrel with the projectile, limiting the force on the barrel at any given point. A smaller version was completed, and the larger version was under construction.

What got him into trouble, however, was the al-Hussein project. While some try and cast it into doubt, there is generally little doubt that his assasination was carried out by the Mossad. His family reported that several times, he had his apartment broken into, and furniture randomly rearranged as a warning. In the end, he was found dead outside his room, five bullets in the back of his neck.

Bull wasn't a well organized person, and both of his projects fell apart without him there. Sanctions against Iraq further led to the confiscation of parts to build the gun (which he had tried to disguise as pipe components). The supergun was finally destroyed after the Gulf War.

The real moral of the story is, if you're a ballistics expert, A) don't tick off your funders, B) don't tick off Israel, and C) learn to take a hint.

Re:Buh Bye

[identity0]

Nah, it'd go something like this, depending on what country did it:

Israel: "A local man was found dead this afternoon of an apparent shooting accident. Police speculate that Bruce Simpson was playing with his .22 pistol when he accidentally placed it at the back of his skull and shot himself."

CIA: "The U.S. Airforce has promised an inquiry into the recent incident where local resident Bruce Simpson was accidentally bombed in his house and killed. Officials believe the air force may have been ordered to "send Simpson one of thier new cruise missles for review" when a technician misinterpreted the orders and fired at the coordinates instead."

MI6: "A recent high-speed chase involving local police and a Aston-Martin fitted with rockets, machine guns and oil slicks ended in tragedy when Mr. Bruce Simpson of New Zealand was lasered in half by the driver, a man police say was dressed very well and ordered a martini shaken, not stirreed at a local club before going on the rampage."

New Zealand: "The New Zealand intelligence service has admitted to bludgeoning Mr. Bruce Simpson to death with sticks. New Zealanders have expressed shock that their country actually posseses an intelligence service."

Re:Buh Bye

[Saeger]

And in related news, a statistically "interesting" number of top scientists are ending up dead or missing in recent years.

--

Re:Buh Bye

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that Bull was working for Saddam before the first gulf war... If you recall, the Regan administration's appraisal of Saddam was somewhat different than the current one.

Re:Buh Bye

[Rei]

Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations Source: UPI / interviews with former Israeli intelligence agents and CIA agents.
Cite: " Gerald Bull, an Ontario-born U.S. citizen and designer of the Iraqi supergun -- a massive artillery system capable of launching satellites into orbit, and of delivering nuclear chemical or biological payloads from Baghdad to Israel -- was killed in Belgium in March 1990. The killing is still unsolved, but former CIA officials said a Mossad hit team is the most likely suspect."

New evidence of Mossad involvement in Belgium murder case Source: Haaretz Daily (an Israeli newspaper) / the Belgian government
Cite: "The Belgian State Prosecutor is considering reopening a probe into the murder of Canadian scientist Dr. Gerald Bull in Brussels 12 years ago, amid new suspicions that the Mossad was responsible. Belgian police say they have new information that the Mossad was directly involved in killing Bull."

Re:Buh Bye

[FrYGuY101]

In related news, it has been discovered that the assassins of Gerald Bull was not, in fact, Mossad, but rather the Fab Five.

Re:Buh Bye

[chimpo13]

Starting with your first paragraph: do you seriously not care that he was building a cannon for saddam hussein, a man who has used chemical weapons against his own citizens, launched wars at the drop of a hat and sworn to eliminate several of his neighbors?

The CIA has said that Saddam didn't gas the Kurds. It was done with blood agent chemicals (cyanide-based gas) that he didn't have. It was probably the Iranians.

Swearing to eliminate your neighbors happens all the friggin' time. How often do people whine about Canucks and the French? Even on something as technical and intelligent as slashdot, people are always saying crap like that. That's certainly helping our reputation world-wide.

Hell, the US is trying to overthrow the Venezuala government, and they're pretty much our neighbor. Cuba is 90 miles away from Florida and we aren't inviting them over for milk and cookies. And the US Army gave citizens, servicemen, and prisoners crap like malaria & syphilis, and sprayed them with mustard gas and biological weapons (thinking of San Francisco here) without telling them. So basically, your first sentence might as well be applied to the Good Ol' USA. The chemical agents American soldiers were exposed to in the first Gulf War were made in the USA.

The real moral is, don't do weapons research. Although I think that'll be mighty hard to apply world-wide. Maybe if we all agree to just disagree the world will be a better place. And weasels will shoot out of my ass.

Re:Buh Bye

[lovecult]

New Zealand: "The New Zealand intelligence service has admitted to bludgeoning Mr. Bruce Simpson to death with sticks. New Zealanders have expressed shock that their country actually posseses an intelligence service."

Joking aside, there is some good publically available information on NZ's intelligence services.
One NZ'ers investigation of the GCSB, ,published in the book Secret Power, revealed to the world the existence of the Echelon network.

Re:Buh Bye

[pipingguy]

smoothbore made from two welded 16' naval guns

I think you mean 16", as in the diameter.
Great post.

Re:Buh Bye

[Anonymous Coward]

"And weasels will shoot out of my ass."

Please video tape that for science, because the state of the art now is eels.

Re:Buh Bye

[Scrameustache]

If you break in and just rearrange all the furniture you're going to contribute to a general sense of paranoia and it's clear you weren't there to steal something.

Maybe it was just the feng-shui vigilante?

Just think its not the most threatning thing ever, redecorating, you know...

travel?

[mabu]

I won't charge you millions of dollars like the big-boys might. I won't question your politics or religious beliefs. I simply ask that you provide me with travel to your location plus safe, warm, comfortable accommodation for the duration of the project, and employ me at an agreed rate for my services.

Somehow I suspect this guy might have some trouble travelling anywhere now....unless he can ride on his cruise missile.

If this guy has trouble finding accommodations, maybe he can share rooms with all the agents that will be tailing him.

Re:travel?

[b0r0din]

Somehow I suspect this guy might have some trouble travelling anywhere now....unless he can ride on his cruise missile.

Maybe they should have entitled this article 'Dr. Simpson, or How I Learned to Love the Cruise Missile.'

"You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"

Re:travel?

[Rei]

I'm sure Vanunu was told the equivalent about the Israeli government.

Seriously, when you're doing things that tick incredibly powerful governments off like crazy... you pretty much have to expect sting operations against you.

I used to room with someone who used to work in army intelligence as a translator (she speaks fluent Russian and German, and bits of dozens of other languages; when the war in Afghanistan broke out, she lectured me on how to properly form plurals in Pashtu). The sort of devious things they used to do to get signal intercepts alone is enough to make one paranoid if they're doing something that will make a government mad at them.

Then there's the specific examples. For example, the one and only anti-Dudayev missile made from a modified HARM. The assasination of Yahya Ayyash via an exploding cell-phone (they could have simply killed him outright, but that had a much more profound psychological effect). Etc. And these are just some cases that involve death.

I'll reiterate. If you really tick off a government, you better expect a sting operation. If you don't, you're A) just plain dumb, and B) going to end up in jail or dead rather quickly.

Cost efficiency

[amliebsch]

Rather than having CIA pay a bunch of intelligence officers to monitor this guy, maybe the DoD should just hire him first.

Re:Cost efficiency

[Pantero Blanco]

...But he wouldn't really be building them if the NZ Government hired him, he'd be designing them, and maybe overseeing the construction of a few for the purpose of models or test subjects. Neighbors would only get shifty-eyed if you started mass-producing them. They don't see what goes on in your laboratories.

Also, if they'd hired him, they could have prevented all the hubbub. Their neighbors wouldn't know anything about him if it hadn't been made into a big deal.

Re:Cost efficiency

[Bitsy Boffin]

Doesn't matter how close of an ally New Zealand is.


NZ isn't that close of an ally to the US actually, we (New Zealand) won't let the US bring nuclear powered or armed vessels into our waters, and the US doesn't much like us for that.

Every now and then they try and "convince" us otherwise, like waving FTA's (free trade agreements) under our nose or making thinly veiled threats to take something away or not play ball on something.

And every time we give them the finger and tell them to go take thier toys and play somewhere else.

Where's the big boys?

[goatstuffer]

Surely this guy should be swimming in offers from the aerospace industry, or any related field. If he can hammer out a homegrown cruise missile, there must be some talent there.

Perhaps he doesn't want to work in such an environment and wants to go solo. Fair enough.

Re:Where's the big boys?

[hoppy]

Did Werner Von Braun got his security clearance ? This guy made Saturn V, he was in Gemini and Apollo projects, no problem for a talented engineer who made who also made V1 and V2 for Hitler.

IMHO Security clearance should not be the problem.

Re:Where's the big boys?

[Kirill Lokshin]

Of course, he began working for the US after he built the V1 and V2, which the US couldn't match at the time. Since the US already has cruise missiles, I suspect the reception will be rather cooler.

Re:Where's the big boys?

[Eric Smith]

What I don't get is why this guy doesn't use his skills to do something a little safer and more worthwhile.

Pulsejet research may not be the safest endeavor, but there's no particular reason to think that it's not generally worthwhile.

Re:Where's the big boys?

[pyrrhonist]

As somebody who is not an American citizen, he likely cannot get security clearance to work for the American miliatary aerospace industry...

Well, first of all, you don't always need a security clearance to work in the military aerospace industry. Different services of the U.S. military have different security requirements for contractors. Since everything is done on a, "need to know basis", sometimes even people with clearance aren't working with anything considered, "secret". It's also quite common to have people with no security clearance working on projects with others that require security clearance. The people without clearance, simply don't work on and don't know about the secret aspects of the system.

In fact, I remember a code review where the guy who wrote the code didn't have a security clearance, but the code reviewers did. Every time they had to discuss the secret aspects of the system, they would send him out of the room. That may seem weird, as he was the code's author, but it was his code's integration to the rest of the system they were discussing, not specific portions of his code.

Secondly, I worked with one guy who had a secret clearance even though his parents were Vietnamese nationals. Under strict interprtation of the law at that time, I think it would have been considered illegal for him to have any sort of contact with his parents. In other words, even in situations where it seems unlikely that a person would get a security clearance, they are still able to get one if the person's expertise is necessary for the contract.

and that's the only one that still exists, everyone else buys from the USA.

In this case, depending on the requirements of the contract with the foreign government, he might not need clearance.

Any Non-Terrorists....?

[sTalking_Goat]

So what? When he's goes to the Job interview do they show him their UN approved IANAT certificate?

Personally if I could design and build cruise missles I wouldn't want it well known. I don't need to give Al Qaeda reason to kidnap me my strap electrodes to my balls and lock me in an underground machine shop in the middle of the Tora Bora.

Re:Any Non-Terrorists....?

[isorox]

Personally if I could design and build cruise missles I wouldn't want it well known. I don't need to give Al Qaeda reason to kidnap me my strap electrodes to my balls and lock me in an underground machine shop in the middle of the Tora Bora.

You seem to be confusing "Al Qaeda" with "U.S. Army", do an s/Tora Bora/Abu-Ghurayb/.

He's probably just showboating

[subaquatique]

Royally screwed by the government, I think he's just trying to say "this is what I COULD do, think about it."

I just happens that having already built a cruise missile does add some weight to his comments.

Re:He's probably just showboating

[taniwha]

well in this case 'royally screwed' actually means 'couldn't pay a back tax bill' - since he was the guy who apparently didn't pay originally his taxes it's maybe more of a self-abuse ...

He claims that they called the tax bill due suddenly because of his 'cruise missile' activities .... and there may well be some truth to this (who knows?) .... but he got himself into this situation himself by not paying his taxes initially

Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[LostCluster]

Governments that are political friends of the USA have access to officially made missles... and any government that's not one is also usually not allowed to possess such missiles thanks to international embargos...

So, just who exactly is his target audience. Who, other than a terrorist organization or government able to order the official version would want a missile?

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[thorgil]

ehhh....., both india and pakistan already have long-range missiles capable of delivering nukes. /T

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[Flamingcheeze]

Isn't it possible for a country to NOT be an ally on the US and ALSO NOT be a terrorist country? Is that now the definition of a terrorist... "not an ally of the us?"

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[flamingnight]

Isn't it possible for a country to NOT be an ally on the US and ALSO NOT be a terrorist country? Is that now the definition of a terrorist... "not an ally of the us?"

Nope. Bush said it himself: "You are either with us or against us in the fight against terror."

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[WarMonkey]

Uhhh, yeahhhh. We all know how credible that source is.

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[Anonymous Coward]

In the weapons sales arena you buy from friendly US merchants of death or you are part of the axis of evil.

There are some disturbing exceptions. Israel buys weapons from the US and has sold them to straight up terrorists, nations itching to use the same weapons against it, but it appears to have done that at the US's request like during Iran-Contra.

Pakistan is supposedly part of the US coalition but has made huge sales of nuclear tech that were recently discovered.

If I were a terrorist I wouldn't want the US tech, it so such expensive and high maintenance "policing" equipment. The former USSR made all the free designs for AK-47s and RPGs and those have so much more bang for the buck it makes me wonder how the US ever hopes to win a war on terrorism when their military costs are so many orders of magnitude higher.

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[Sergeant Beavis]

Not every government (friend of foe) wants to spend $600,000 per missle for a Tomahawk. That price doesn't include the launch system for a Tomahawk. The other US built cruise missle is the Air Launched Cruise Missle (ALCM) that the Airforce launches off of B-52s and B-1Bs. That missle isn't used by any other country because they don't have a good bomber to use as a weapons platform. I'm not even sure if we even offer the ALCM for export. So far, the only other user of the Tomohawk is the British Royal Navy.

The Russians have cruise missles (both sea and air launched) and I'm sure they are cheaper but their accuracy is an unknown quantity. The French also have their Air-Sol Moyenne Portee (ASMP) cruise missile.

The point this guy makes is that he can make one that is reasonably accurate and MUCH cheaper.

Hypothetically, it wouldn't be a bad idea for a nation like Taiwan, who has a limited defense budget but a much larger adversary right across the straight, to come up with a medium range and cheap cruise missle that they could produce in large numbers. If they had a couple thousand of these, Bejing might think a second or two longer before coming after them.

Re:Non terrorist users of criuse missiles?

[mcpkaaos]

how the US ever hopes to win a war on terrorism when their military costs are so many orders of magnitude higher.

Well, when you run with a crowd that just prints more money when they run out, the world is really your oyster.

Sounds like he has lots of options to me

[Fiz Ocelot]

Indeed, I'm now effectively prohibited from using any of my key skills to support myself

Come on now, it sounds like this guy is a very capable engineer and he's saying this? Aren't there any firms in his country that can use someone smart enough to build these things?

I guess he can't build missiles there which is a bummer, but surely his skills can be applied to many things such as aerospace engineer. If anything, I bet he'd have better chances in Australia, which isn't too far away.

Re:Sounds like he has lots of options to me

[traskjd]

I live in NZ and the short answer is No.

We don't build anything like that - heck, it was a massive national debate because we brought 3 second hand frigates! The guy really does need more international exposure to get a job but I think if he didn't get the offers he wanted when it was on the news he ain't going to get them now.

zerg

[Lord Omlette]

Awesome, so I'll see this guy on this list real soon now, right?

no career choices?

[mabu]

Let me see if I can get this straight...

This guy can homebrew cruise missiles, embedded electronic guidances systems, program firmware, craft things out of blocks of wood and other materials, work with fiberglass, understands chemistry, electronics, metal fabrication and various other skills, and he's claiming that unless he can build MISSILES he can't provide for his family?

Re:no career choices?

[John Courtland]

I think that lack of skilled tradesmen is because you guys have such damn high immigration standards. Not knocking NZ or anything, but, couldn't you guys lax up a bit? It's like all you want there are movie stars and oil barons.

Re:GO BRUCE!

[traskjd]

Also as a Kiwi I have to say I love that photo of himself - very kiwi ("just built me a cruise missle in the backyard, yep" the overalls and gravel driveway really are a nice touch.

I agree though - go bruce! :D

On the next episode of "Pimp My Ride"...

[mabu]

While Jane's at work, her best friend takes her 1981 Toyota Camry and gets it a fresh flame job, 15" rims, and a cruise missile attached to the roof!

Consider the Russians

[bogaboga]

Yes, the Russians have been doing this for years. They undoubtedly have the best engineered and reliable systems in the world. The Americans now rely on Russian rockets. Their Buran (shuttle clone) landed withing 5 feet of its intended target...more accurate than anyone has ever achieved. They retired the MIR successfully with an accuracy of 0.5km when most western observers were worried that it would fall on them. They have the biggest and heaviest flying aircraft in the world. It will still dwarf the A-380. It once carried over 120 SUVs over Sudan to Entebbe when there was the great rally. I had the opportunity of seeing their ambitions on paper. The problem is funding. Best of all, they are darn cheap, dollar wise. Let hi team up with them.

Ah, lest you forget...

[mariox19]

Some people turn violently ill when it comes time to compose a resume!

Old News, Old Technology...

[norite]

Cruise missile technology is hardly new. Remember that the Nazis built their V1 Doodlebug (powered by the exact same pulse jet type engine) and the more powerful V2 ballistic missile over 60 years ago, complete with their own guidance systems - and they didn't have the luxury of GPS navigation back then... It's not exactly, erm, rocket science, is it? It's probably even easier today, with the aid of GPS.

It is probably more technologically challenging to build a nuclear device than it is to build a basic cruise missile, so those countries that posses nuclear weapons - Israel, Pakistan, India could quite easily build cruise missiles...

Re:Old News, Old Technology...

[Billy the Mountain]

Cruise missile technology is hardly new

Old != Useless as you seem to imply. Bruce's original stated goal was to alert the global community of the threat of cheaply built jet-powered missiles capable of traveling 400-500 M.P.H. Such a device would be very challenging to guard against. And let's not forget the incidents where Mathiast Rust landed a Cessna 172 in Moscow's Red Square or the other guy that landed the Cessna on the Whitehouse lawn.

Personally, I don't like Bruce. He's an asshole with a lot of gaul and he scammed me out of $45 U.S., but he's got a valid point.

BTM

Sympathy = Zero

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see how this is any different than prosecuting the author of a computer virus that finds its way into the public domain.

Just because you can build something doesn't mean you should. Unleashing something with the potential to destroy people and property carries the inherent moral obligation to have the resources and a commitment to control its end-use and distribution. You may not like the way NZ shut him down - but how can anyone argue with the necessity of it?

This guy's bitterness and bravado tells you everything you need to know about his personality. I hope the Israeli's, Yanks or Aussies take him out sometime real soon.

Re:Just A Thought

[Saeed al-Sahaf]

He doesn't have to job hunt in NZ alone.

True. And also, for him to say the NZ gov is preventing him from getting a job in his area of experise in NZ is just crap. NZ does not have any rocket / missle manufacturers.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Uses of cruise missiles?

[menscher]

Maybe I'm just not creative enough, but what would a non-terrorist organization want with a cruise missile?

Re:Uses of cruise missiles?

[akb]

Depends on what you mean by non-terrorist organization, do you count countries? Countries always want to have what the other big kids have, ala India, China, France, Russia, etc.

Re:Uses of cruise missiles?

[pkhuong]

France? Like, the country with the 2nd or 3rd largest military? Or "that other nuclear power"? France IS a big guy. Disregard propaganda. Do remember the fact that they were one of (if not the first) the first modern democratic countries, and have truly helped others (USA) become democratic. Sometimes, when a friend says "no", he's still a friend, not a whiny old bastard.

Re:Who buys 'em?

[mOoZik]

Uhh, wtf are you talking about? He's not build the cruise missile to sell to anyone, but rather, to prove to ignorant governments that anyone with enough money and expertise could do the very same. He is presenting a threat which has not yet surfaced, so we should be thanking him, because we will really be screwed if some terrorist or anti-U.S. group unleases a few dozen cruise missiles with many pounds of high explosives or bio/chem payloads on major U.S. cities or sporting events or whatever. He's trying to make a point, while nearly 99% of folks think he's doing this to sell to terrorists or show them how it's made.

Re: I love the technology curve!

[Fortran IV]

Yes, mustard gas was a nasty thing--a very nasty thing--to use in war.

But did you know that msutard gas was also the very first chemical used as a successful chemotherapy treatment for cancer?

Yes, I'd guess that the first use for an LCCM (and second, and third) might be terrorism. But you never can predict what horror of today will find a beneficial use tomorrow. Not every tech advance comes from NASA.

Only stupid people would want to do it

[radtea]

There's a novel by Donald Kingsbury, The Moon Goddess and the Son (IIRC) from the mid 80's that describes the construction of a DIY cruise missile. It was plausible then (albiet by renegade MIT students) and even moreso now.

The only curious thing is that no one has yet done it. The only reasonable conclusion is that everyone who can do it, except for this clown in New Zealand, has the good sense not to want to.

--Tom

How fast..

[segfault_0]

The fact of the matter is more likely that most people wouldnt want such a loose cannon working for their respectable firm. If you were an aerospace firm would you want the guy who just pissed the government off working for you, ensuring that you lose contracts etc.? Not likely. Perhaps he should of thought twice before he did something that would obviously piss off the powers that be (aka biting the hand that fed him), regardless of how right or wrong it may be (in the utopian fantasia where it doesnt matter if everyone can build a cruise missle).

Re:How fast..

[0x0d0a]

And yet, don't you find it frusterating that blunt honesty is so harshly repaid?

Re:Idiot

[Codebender]

His previous income was from aerospace projects in general, and he built a cruise missile to prove to his government that it could be done by a private party, when they would not listen to him. Now he's completely locked out of the aerospace industry in NZ, so he's given up on helping the gov. and looking to move out.

So you're saying he was an idiot for being patriotic and attempting to help secure his own country against terrorism? I'd say they are the idiots for not listeneing to him.

If he had a public e-mail address up, I would PayPal him a few bucks just because I think he got royally shafted. I'm going to try anyway, actually.

How about "he's an incompetent nutjob"?

[Noose For A Neck]

This guy is a computer hardware engineer. Anyone who thinks he could design and construct anything resembling a militarily-viable cruise missle by himself is either way out of their depth or just plain dumb.

Seeing as he hasn't actually constructed anything, but rather just released vague plans on the internet, I think that rather bolsters my case that this guy is just another net.kook.

Donations

[Codebender]

I've been following Bruce's story for a while, and I just wish I could afford to have him build me something. I don't have an (big, evil) S.U.V., but I'd love to have a missile on my car. Perhaps a jet-powered motorcycle...

Anyway, if you're like me and you can drop a few dollars without ever missing it, here's the donations page:

http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/donations.shtml

Re:For my part...

[aardvarkjoe]

After the way the NZ government screwed him, I hope they realize that they are largely to blame should anything bad come of this.

Yeah, those bastards -- expecting somebody to pay their taxes.

A word from Bruce Simpson

[NewtonsLaw]

I'm Bruce Simpson, the subject of this discussion and I'd like to address some of the comments and points that have been raised here.

Question: If I'm so damned clever, why don't I have a job?
Answer:
Well, I'm 50 years old, which (even here in NZ) is past the age when it becomes difficult to just walk into a any job because, regardless of your qualifications there's always someone younger who's standing in line ahead of you.

What's more, although I have a lot of experience in a wide number of a synergistic (from a missile building persective) nature, there are plenty of people around who know more and are better at these individual fields than I am.

If an employer is looking for a good programmer, a good electronics design engineer, a good airframe designer, or a good engineer, there are plenty better than me.

My strength is that I have sufficient depth of knowledge and skill in each area to bring a very broad perspective to bear on the particular problems associated with the job of designing and building a cheap cruise missile (or UAV). In effect, I can do the job of four or five people with more efficiency and insight than such a team might.

When I have an idea, I can bring all my different areas of competence to bear on it and produce a result in a fraction the time it takes for a team of several individuals to do the same.

The problem is, there are no companies in NZ looking for this synergy of skills.

Unfortunately, this country has little or no interest in things military -- hell, the first thing the current government did when it gained power was to pretty much gut our air force by disbanding its air-defense capabilies.

This saw all our best avionics engineers, Air Force pilots and maintenance people disappear to greener pastures.

In fact, our Air Force is so run down that even its transport aircraft now break down with regular monotony. Any government that believes that an air capability is an unimportant part of defense is crazy.

As a result of this "head in the sand" attitide, Australia and the USA are both pretty pissed off with New Zealand because it can no longer pull its full weight in ANZUS, the alliance between the three parties.

But back to jobs. The town I live in is a small rural center which is largely supported by a timber mill. In recent times there have been a number of lay-offs at that mill and unemployment levels are quite high here. The reality is that not only are their *no* jobs for hi-tech workers but I couldn't even get a job flipping burgers at McDonalds due to the queue of applicants ahead of me.

Question: why not move to a bigger city?
Answer:
Well that's pretty hard to do when you're living hand-to-mouth without any money to spare. Moving is an *expensive* operation and rents in the big cities are typically three or four times that of the smaller centers. It simply wouldn't be possible for me to move without having several thousand dollars in my pocket to cover the move, rent and other costs until that first pay check came in (assuming that I could even then find a job).

I could support myself however, if I were allowed to remain self-employed -- but that's not possible due to the restrictions placed on my activities by the government.

Question: won't I be killed by Mossad/CIA/whatever?
Answer:
I doubt it -- but if I am, at least my wife gets to claim on my life-insurance policy :-)

In the past few weeks, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong so there have been times when I have to admit that I simply wouldn't care if I became the target of some hitman -- yeah, it's really been that bad!

But seriously, I don't think anyone will try to rub me out (even though a couple of alleged Mossad members were arrested here in NZ for trying to fraudulently obtain an NZ passport).

Question: why don't I get a job with a big aerospace company?
Answer:

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[NewtonsLaw]

No, I didn't say that Israel was a terrorist nation, I simply said I wouldn't accept offers from that country.

I don't like the way Israel (or Palestians) have conducted themselves in that part of the world and would therefore not like to be party to that type of eye-for-an-eye kind of stupidity.

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[NewtonsLaw]

You say you are all that patriotic but you are bankrupt because you did not pay your taxes!

That is actually wrong.

I paid every cent of the tax I owed (in fact I over-paid). I was bankrupted over a huge sum of penalties and interest that (under NZ law, and as verified by an Ernst Young tax expert), should have been waived.

However, I was repaying even these penalties (I paid a lump sum of $20,000 just weeks before the bankruptcy) and if (like most other taxpayer) I'd been alowed to continue with these repayments, the debt would have been cleared completely within 9-12 months.

In effect, the government/tax-ma refusedto let me pay those interests and penalties -- why would they do that?

DO you realize that your work is going to kill thousands of innocent people

Where's your support for that argument?

And you seem to have a very short memory (or didn't attend history classes at school).

Just think back to August 6 and 9 of 1945.

As I said, there is probably no country on the face of the planet which hasn't engaged in some form of terrorism (defined as the killing of innocent men, women and children in the name of a cause).

As I've stated -- I'd much rather focus on civilian applications for RPV/UAV technologies and there are plenty of them. I'm hoping that if someone does want my services, this is what they'll be concentrating on.

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Have you considered seeking employment with one of the companies that is trying to commercialize small-scale space-flight? It sounds like your skills as a generalist in a relatively similar field would be very useful to such companies seeing as how they are mostly all small start-ups, the dotcoms of space-flight before the market took off. Such companies need people who can wear many different hats as well as keep "the big picture" in their head so as to identify unexpected interactions and possible synergies across fields.

There is probably lots of competition since the X-Prize has made them relatively famous recently, but you do have a little more street cred than most.

PS - Don't waste your time responding the people freaking about your views on terrorism, some people just can't stand it that someone might question their own passionately held beliefs and feel that they must make you look at their own personal trees to make you ignore the forest.

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[Anonymous Coward]

I apologize for going AC on this, but I need a clearance for my job, and am naturally concerned about retaliation for my views.

Israel is undoubtedly the lead cause of terrorism out there (they create terrorists far faster then they kill them). They are an nation kept in existance by the US in pursuit of fundamentalist Christian goals. They actually segment their populace based on what religion you are in, and it sure isn't seperate but equal. Is that your view of a modern, democratic state?

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[killjoe]

Define terrorism so that israel does not fit the definition.

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[NewtonsLaw]

If you're 50 years old, then you're old enough that you should have known better than to pull a stunt like this in the first place

Well excuse me for trying to bring a quite real threat to the public's attention.

I initially attempted to do this with this article but, although I received some feedback, it clearly wasn't reaching a large audience.

That article also produced a lot of people who claimed it couldn't be done and that I was full of hot air -- so the only way to prove my case and to properly inform the public of this threat was to go ahead and do what I said any terror group could do.

You call it a "stunt", I call it proving my case.

Read into this; now that you've pissed off the USA, which is providing a big chunk of your nation's security

But why are they pissed off?

Before I started the project I emailed the FBI and DARAP to tell them what I was planning and why. I also invited them to make any comments they might have and offered them full access to the results of my work.

What did I get in return -- an automated reply from the FBI thanking me for my email and nothing at all from DARPA.

Based on that response, it's pretty natural to think that those organizations in the US charged with the security of the nation didn't have a problem with my project. Surely they'd be smart enough to simply say "we'd really rather you didn't do this" -- but no such response was forthcoming.

Then, when the project serves its goal of raising public awareness, they get all snotty -- is that my fault?

Perhaps they're simply embarrassed now that it's clear they have no answer to such a threat -- which was the entire point of my argument. The only weapon against an LCCM is public awareness.

I hate to say this, but it sounds as if you really did this to yourself

Maybe I did -- but I'm not completely stupid and I have leared lessons from this:

1. Do not take a patriotic stance and contact the Secret Service when information possibly from a sponsor of terror comes into your possession.

2. Do not actively cooperate with the secret service and help them to obtain more information.

3. If the government gives you clearance to sell technology with a military application to a nation deemed to be a sponsor of terror, do not question this -- simply go ahead with the transanction.

4. Do not put the interests of your country (overseas investment, new jobs, export earnings, a valuable foothold in an explosive new industry) ahead of your own. Think only of your own bank balance in all transactions.

5. Do not turn down offers of money from the government as they will not thank you or even consider that by not accepting that money you are in effect in credit to that amount.

6. Do not trust the government to act ethically, moraly or even legally when they wish to achieve some end.

7. Do not work your ass off and sell your house to pay a tax debt while being fooled into believing that regular and reliable servicing such a debt to the point where it is almost completely repaid will stop the taxman from bankrupting you for no apparent reason.

Unfortunately I feel very sad that these are the lessons I have learned.

Sure, I'm not without fault -- I should have filed my returns and paid all my tax right on time.

But the overal lesson here is that it's pointless trying to remedy such a transgression -- if you ever find yourself behind in your taxes (and you've got a missile in your garage) simply sell all your assets, take a really good holiday then come back and file for bankruptcy.

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[che.kai-jei]

erm israel is terrorist state that assasinates so called militant leaders via rocket attacks in the street killing innocent bystanders and bulldozing the homes of civillians for land usurpers. you get a grip!

Re:A word from Bruce Simpson

[NoMaster]

Admittedly they're (NZ) de-militarizing and thus aiding terrorism...

You, my friend, have a very fucked-up view of this thing called "terrorism". Must come from that "you're either with us, or against us" crap your leader spouts all the time...

It's not something new, invented one September 11 a couple of years back, to scare Americans. In one form or another, it's been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. Most recently, well before 11/09/2001, it's been used in Great Britain, Ireland, Spain, Israel, Jordan, Indonesia, Russia, Egypt, Germany ... hell, you could even include the Rainbow Warrior sinking in Aukland, NZ, and the Hilton Hotel bombing in Sydney, Australia, in your list of terrorist incidents / actions.

Sit down, clear your mind, have a cuppa, and think about the word "terrorism", and how terrorism works. To get you started, I'll tell you this : it works by creating fear, aka "terror", out of all proportion to its actions.

Like killing just 3000 people, and getting a country of 220+ million so shit-scared that they're almost prepared to destroy everything they claim to stand for in order to protect themselves from what, so far, has proved to be a one-off event...

News/Curerent-affairs item on this

[NewtonsLaw]

This will probably kill my server (perhaps someone can throw it on bit-torrent or mirror it) but there's a video clip on my website from a news and current affairs program here in New Zealand that documented my case.

Re:News/Curerent-affairs item on this

[NewtonsLaw]

Dude, this will kill you before it kills your server. So dont worry. And no one is interested in mirroring your acts of terrorism, leading to the future deaths of many innocent people so that you can become famous rich bastard

Clearly you didn't watch the video. Which of my actions do you consider would lead ot the deaths of many innocent people?

1. Contacting the SIS (secret service) with information about suspicious offers made to me?

2. Not taking an offer worth US$100K to sell information to a state considered to be a sponsor of terrorism -- even though the NZ government gave me the okay to do so?

And if my goal was to become a "rich bastard", why did I turn down far more lucrative offers to strike a deal that meant far less money in my pocket but more jobs and export earnings for NZ?

By the way, the most frightening thing about your threats is the fact you can't even spell New Zealand properly :-)

Errrrr

[Sycraft-fu]

He wasn't royally screwed by the government. If you read the orignal article (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/09/20525 2&mode=thread&tid=137) you'll notice that the reason he lost all his money was due to having not paid his taxes on time and getting nailed for back taxes. Now, some might argue that the reason the government took an intrest in his back taxes was this project, but that's isn't relivant. He wasn't screwed over, he failed to pay taxes he owed, and the government came for them, plus penalties.

Happened to a firend of mine. He ran a bussiness that made sales, but overall lost money. Thing is, he didn't keep track of and write off expenses. So the IRS noticed the extra income, and nailed him with $2000 in back taxes. Kinda sucks, but ulitmately his fault. You are responsible for your taxes and if you can't figure them out, you need to pay someone to do it for you.

Also, trying to make a point like this to the government is STUPID. While NZ doesn't have much of an intelligence service, other nations who this threat would worry, like Israel, Russia and the US, DO. If they think he seriously will sell missles to terrorists, they'll deal with it, and that may involve a massive cerberal hemmorage induced by a bullet to the back of the head.

Really, I think he's being rather petulant. I understand he's pissed that his dream fell through but ultimately, it's his own fault. Even if you are on the best terms with the govenrment, you need to have your taxes in order. If you are doing something they aren't happy with, you REALLY need to have your taxes in order. Al Capone ultimately went down for tax evasion, not murder or anything like that.

If you shortchange the government, even unwittingly, don't be supprised when they come for their due. Pulling a stunt like this ISN'T the way to change that, it's just a way to get in further shit.

If he was smart, he'd try to find a company to go work for just generally in the areonautics industry. He obviously has skills, and someone would likely hire him. Maybe then he can get the money and facilities to restart his research.

oh, just brilliant

[ZorbaTHut]

"Boss, we've found a guy who's able to build a cruise missile out of parts he found in his backyard. What'll we do?"

"Tricky one. I say we throw him out of his house and force him into bankruptcy."

"But won't that just leave him willing to take a job from anyone, even our enemies?"

"BANKRUPTCY!"

"But wouldn't it be better if *we* hired -"

"BANKRUPTCY!"

"But how do we know he won't get hired by, say, Iraq -"

"BANKRUPTCY!"

"Okay, okay, bankruptcy it is."

"Glad you see it my way! You'll go far in this government."

"There's also this story about a little girl and her kitten -"

"BANKRUPTCY!"

----

With intelligence agencies like these, who needs enemies?

Re:Interesting yes, amazing, no

[NewtonsLaw]

From the looks of it, he's building a modern V-1, an dteh tech used is not vastly different from that used in model aircraft. larger scale perhaps, but even taht is questionable when you look at some of the large scale a/c (sucha sthe B-52) modellers have built

This is exactly the point I was trying to make when I embarked on the DIY Cruise Missile project.

It's not rocket science and almost anyone could do it if the set their minds to it.

Besides, why build a cruise missile, which requires you stayin in one place and buying a bunch of stuff taht may arouse the interest of teh authorities when you could steal a biz jet, deliver a larger payload, and do the planning in dispersed locations?

Actually, my other point was that you could build one of these things *without* attrating a lot of attention or rousing the interest of the authorities. There's nothing involved in the construction of an LCCM that would ring alarm bells anywhere.

And your chances of using a hijacked or hired business jet to deliver a payload would seem to be pretty limited if this story is any indicator.

With a flight time of less than 10 minutes to its target and a small radar signature, an LCCM would have a much higher probability of success without the need for martyrdom.

Not particularly.

[SvnLyrBrto]

> do you seriously not care that he was building a cannon for
> saddam hussein

Look up the name "Wernher Von Braun" sometime. Probably more than anyone else except JFK, he is responsible for man going to the moon, and much of the space program we take for granted. In fact, the US space program didn't really start to go south, until after we quit relying on Von Braun's rockets, and went with that air-force-addled clusterfuck that is the space shuttle.

Now, for the final Jeopardy answer:

Wernher Von Braun worked for him before moving to America.

cya,
john

Re:Not particularly.

[kamapuaa]

bull built weapons for saddam hussein. how exactly do you rationalize that?

Are you serious? Wernher Von Braun led the design of the V2 vengeance rockets for the Nazis.

At the time, Iraq was the republican government with US backing, pushing back fundamentalist Iran. Iran had declared an anti-US bias, declared a desire to spread their theological revolution against US puppet states across the Mid-East, and been associated with groups that made attacks against the US military.

In an ideal world, advanced weapon makers would be given a show trial, declared enemies of the people, and sent to work in rural Chinese re-education camps. But what he did isn't more terrible than what other weapon designers do.

Re:It's a TRAP!

[NewtonsLaw]

Actually, as you'll see if you watch the video, I *did* turn over suspicious communications to the SIS (the NZ Secret Service) and cooperated with them at their request.

However, since my support of them wasn't reciprocated I formally withdrew that support following the bankruptcy.

I'm buggered if I'm going to be an unpaid employee of a government that would do what they've done to my family.

My attitude now is that I'll simply ignore any communications that I discover to be associated with any potentially undesirable group.

If the SIS want my help, they can pay me for it.

you know..

[EvilStein]

"strap electrodes to my balls and lock me in an underground machine shop in the middle of the Tora Bora."

There are people that would probably pay to have that done.. and a whole other set that would pay to see it on the Internet. :P

CIA? Mossad?

[r_j_prahad]

CIA? Mossad? Same thing.

Re:Less Principles More Common Sense

[NewtonsLaw]

Made a point that according to NZ gov't you could sell away to the Iranians -- making them look stupid

So making the government look stupid is a crime punishable by impoverishment?

Took the proceeds from the $200K and didn't pay your tax debt, didn't set aside savings or investments for your family and spent the money building something you don't need and lots of people don't want

Not correct. Most of the $200K was spent repaying loans and other costs I'd incurred while building up 7am.com. Work it out -- $200K for 3-years of 18-hour days, 7 days a week with little income. You can build up a lot of debt during that time and $200K doesn't go far repaying it.

It's also worth noting that in the two years following the one in which I received payment for 7am.com, I paid $135K in tax on taxable income of $200K.

That sounds like an awful lot doesn't it?

That's because only a small percentage of that was actual *tax*, the rest was a mountain of interest and penalties that the tax department piled on with glee.

It's worth noting that (because there's no capital gains tax in New Zealand) there was little tax actually owing on the sale of the company. The penalty bill was many, many times the actual tax -- and at the time they bankrupted me, I'd paid the vast majority of that off.

Refused to go on the dole

Yes, like most people I'd rather work for a living than sponge off others. The only problem is that the government has effectively forbidden me from earning a living because there aren't really a whole lot of jobs going for missile designers here in NZ. That's why I'm looking further afield.

Hardly something to criticise is it?

Re:Less Principles More Common Sense

[NewtonsLaw]

Sorry to reply to my own post but exactly how long were you behind in taxes

In my case the IRD appear to have thrown their own rule book out the door so they felt happy to pile on enormous penalties and refuse to waive them even though they were in breach of the law.

When an Ernst Young tax accountant challenged them on this and requested a meeting as my appointed representitive, they refused to talk with him.

What's more, although I was punished for my own tardy record-keeping, the IRD directly ignored the order of the courts on a number of separate occasions when directed to fix errors in their records.

How bad were their errors?

Well they even got my name wrong and, despite being advised of this and ordered to correct it on THREE separate occasions, by two district court judges and one high-court judge, they still hadn't done so when they applied to bankrupt me.

In fact, the bankruptcy was issued in the wrong name! Yet, in an unprecedented move, the judgement of the High Court was apparently ammended by a clerk who simply changed the name after the event.

On an earlier occasion, the IRD were also harshly berated by the court for not properly accounting for a very large (over)payment I had been made but which not credited to my account.

In fact, their whole approach to this case was unprofessional and, even when I'd gotten all my filing up to date (a year before they filed the bankruptcy move) and paid all but a small amount of the money I was supposed to have owed, their records were still in a shambles.

It seems that nobody, not even the deputy PM or the Minister for Revenue cared about this minor fact -- which again leaves me believing that this was nothing to do with debt recovery and all about scuttling an embarrassing crusise missile project.

the so-called "war on terror" is just an excuse to

[jonwil]

restrict advances in many fields including Cryptography, Aerospace, Computing, Energy (electricity generation etc), biotech, nanotech, robotics and others.

A friend of mine swears thsi is a true story

[Unknown Poltroon]

Which means it isnt, but here it is:

During one of the little brushfire wars in africa, reporters were interviewing an airbase commander after his base and planes had been destroyed in a commando raid. When asked who he thought had done it, he replied, "THe americans"
WHen asked why, he said" WEll, if it had been the isralies, wed all be dead, and if it had been the british SAS we still wouldnt have known tehyd been here."

Re:Osama bin Laden is a brave Freedom Fighter

[Mr. Droopy Drawers]

Mr. Goldfish,

The Americans backed the mujahideen, not the Taliban. It was the mujahideen who were the "freedom fighters" in Afgahanistan. Seems that your bias is coming through.

You may want to read up on the taliban in Afganistan.

Your options

[cryptochrome]

Well, taxmen are the same everywhere: if they want to fuck you over they will, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Al Capone was tossed in jail over taxes.

Where could you go? Hmm... I'm hard pressed to think of any non-terrorist countries that are looking to build up their missle capability on the cheap and aren't under the USA's thumb. Nearly all the good candidates are. Pretty much all the former communist countries, but a big chunk of those got absorbed into the EU. They're being integrated economically, not militarily yet, so maybe they do have a market, but OTOH if you're part of the EU that means you weren't involved in any outstanding conflicts and you have very powerful and reliable allies. Turkey buys from the US. Egypt's still too close to the fire. Might be a South American country or two, but that's well within the US's sphere of influence and probably a combat zone. India might be interested, if you can muck your way through the beauracracy. And then there's Russia.

The weak point in the LCCM is that it's guided by GPS, which can be compromised - if they see it coming, which is probably not how the relatively short-range LCCM would be used.

Or you could just dump the whole cruise missle thing and focus on the pulsejet side, which would probably make your life a whole lot easier. I'd say you've proved your point, at least well enough to get a government or two trying to actively shut you down.

I've wondered before - couldn't a pulsejet engine be used as a rocket motor? Say once you get above the point where it can breath air effectively, you start injecting oxygen and you get an unpulsed burn? I realize the shape would have to be heavily redesigned to incorporate an efficient rocket combustion chamber/pulse chamber/nozzle (a variable augmentor perhaps?) and a sturdier design would be necessary. But for sure you could make a hybrid engine that would be lighter and simpler than any other option, if not as powerful or efficient. I suppose in that case you'd want to talk to the experts on rocket engines, the Russians.