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Does Your Employer Own Your Thoughts?

MJ writes "Evan Brown has finally lost his 7 year court battle over ownership of thoughts in his brain. Judge Henderson of the 219th District Court in Collin County, Texas granted DSC Communications Corporation, Inc (now Alcatel, USA) a Final Judgement granting DSC ownership of Mr. Brown's idea of a reverse compiler that Mr. Brown claims to have begun formulating twelve years before his employment at DSC and during his off-time while at DSC. Mr. Brown has received media coverage in print, televion and on the Internet: The John Marshall Journal of Computer & Information Law, Wired, Computerworld. This rings similar to previous Slashdot articles on employer/employee IP rights."

79 of 758 comments (clear)

  1. You Know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd tell you what I think, but you're gonna have to ask my employer first.

  2. Help protest this ruling... by Radon+Knight · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...by refusing to think at work!

    1. Re:Help protest this ruling... by nEoN+nOoDlE · · Score: 4, Funny

      I've been protesting for years

      --
      Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
    2. Re:Help protest this ruling... by wkitchen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You may be joking, but it's not far fetched. Because of a contract that I had to sign in order to get my current job (such are required for just about any technical job), I have put off any further development of my prior ideas, and leave all new ones dormant except for those that are actually within the function of my job, and trivial hobby stuff. Perhaps in some better future time, when either I am no longer dependent on an employer, or if someday the citizenry can gain some kind of legal protection against this kind of robbery and oppression, I'll be free to create again.

    3. Re:Help protest this ruling... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Because of a contract that I had to sign in order to get my current job (such are required for just about any technical job), I have put off any further development of my prior ideas, and leave all new ones dormant except for those that are actually within the function of my job, and trivial hobby stuff.

      You give up too much without a fight. My contract has a clause in it specifically stating that the company has no claim on anything I do that doesn't use any company time or company resources. I made them show me the full text of the contract they were going to ask me to sign on day one, not just the quick summary they sent when they offered the job, precisely to check that such a clause was there, and to request one otherwise.

      In fact, I gather than in quite a few jurisdictions, such contractual terms are likely to be unenforceable anyway. And even if not, don't sell yourself short; look at the contract before signing up for a job, question the absence of such a clause (or why there's a "we own everything" clause) by presenting something that's clearly your own work and asking whether the employer feels they have a right to it, and embarrass them into changing the contract.

      Morally they don't have a leg to stand on, and as long as you politely but firmly require them to acknowledge this before you start working for them, they won't have one legally either. No sane employer is going to go all the way through a recruitment process, pick someone they like, offer them the job, and then retract the offer in the face of a clearly reasonable request regarding the contractual terms. If a potential employer of yours does, just walk away; you now know exactly what kind of attitude they have towards their staff, and you can certainly do better elsewhere.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    4. Re:Help protest this ruling... by 0x0d0a · · Score: 4, Informative

      California prevents employers from appropriating IP produced by workers in off hours.

      Pennsylvania lacks such worker protection.

      Some employers (such as my last one) require you to list all the works that you claim rights to when you *come to work* there. Theoretically, you're giving them rights to everything else you've produced.

      It's absolutely asinine.

  3. They stole his ideas? by duckandcoveranduck · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's what happens when you don't wear your tinfoil hat.

  4. Say it isn't so by Donoho · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just because it's the law doesn't mean it's fair. Why is it a company can own my ideas, but I can't own their software? How about leasing our ideas?

    1. Re:Say it isn't so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is the exact reason I subtly screwed up a job offer by talking about all the stuff I worked on at home. The company that made the offer presented me with a huge contract to sign, with provisions that anything I worked on AT ANY TIME while employed by them was automatically owned by them. On top of that, I would be legally prevented from taking a job with any of their clients or their competitors for two years after leaving the company, if that were to ever happen. From their explaination, they said it was to prevent people from stealing their code. I thought this was ridiculess, and began asking more about it before signing. Then I started talking about creating my own company with the project that I did in school. Surprise surprise...they took the contract away from me and said that I could sign it another day. The next day when I called back, they suddenly had no need to hire anyone else at the time, so my offer was no longer on the table. Darn...

    2. Re:Say it isn't so by Markmarkmark · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sorry, that point of view is just wrong. As the founder of a software company, let me assure you that a reasonable proprietary rights agreement signed by all the developers at the company is essential. Without it companies could not get investors (they want to know what they are buying a piece of). Investors are where the paychecks come from. Nor could we deliver to our employee/shareholders an IPO or acquisition that will hopefully make them wealthy. Without clearly defining what the company owns, no acquirer or underwriter would ever give us the time of day.

      The company is paying cash money to the employee to do 'work-for-hire'. Unless otherwise arranged, the company should own the resulting work. The company is taking all the risk. The product may be worthless, there may be no market, but the employee has already taken his/her cash money to the bank. Yes, it's less than a owning part of the product if it's a hit but no risk/no reward.

      As for an idea that's completely unrelated to the field that the company is paying the employee to think about, and the employee had the idea on their own time and only developed it after they left the company (without using any company-related ideas or proprietary information) then that idea should belong to the employee.

    3. Re:Say it isn't so by kisielk · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's why you should keep a log, preferably a dated lab note book of any kind of research or work you do. If he had such a book that contained the history of his ideas and went back to before his employment at Alcatel, he would likely have been able to win this court case.

    4. Re:Say it isn't so by Kenja · · Score: 3, Informative

      Every place I've worked that had a "we own your thoughts" clause also had a place to list prior work that was excluded from the contract. If he realy had this idea prior to signing he should have listed it as an exception.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    5. Re:Say it isn't so by matdavis · · Score: 5, Informative
      This section I read from the judgment sounds to me as if his idea was exactly what he was supposed to be working on (thanks to Google's cache, and the bold is mine):


      B. The Status of the Solution

      Brown repeatedly claims there is a fact issue that the Solution was not an invention, or even a conception falling under the terms of the employment agreement. However, he claimed in his April 1996 memo to management, I have developed a method of converting machine executable binary code into high level source code form using logic and data abstractions. . . . Brown has not presented any other credible evidence to contradict this assertion.

      Brown also claims Alcatel was not in the business of designing software, but was in the telecommunications business. Thus, the employment agreement is not applicable to the Solution. However, the evidence in the record establishes that Brown managed the group at Alcatel charged with maintaining and developing automated conversion tools for converting high-level code to low- level code. The record further shows that one of Brown's job functions was to manually convert Alcatel's existing low-level code to high-level code. The evidence shows Alcatel twice investigated automated conversion tools in 1993 and 1995. In addition, in 1993, Brown managed the employee charged with investigating the low-level to high-level automated code conversion process and received a status report on his research on October 18, 1993.

      We do not believe the court below erred in concluding Alcatel, pursuant to the employment agreement, owns full legal right, title and interest to the process and/or method that is known as the Solution. We overrule Brown's first issue in its entirety.


    6. Re:Say it isn't so by AndyChrist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "As the founder of a software company...Investors are where the paychecks come from."

      Is this company still in business? I mean, I thought CUSTOMERS were where the paychecks were supposed to ultimately come from...or are there still some lessons of the internet bubble that haven't sunk in?

    7. Re:Say it isn't so by Facekhan · · Score: 4, Informative

      A non-compete agreement has to be limited in scope and reasonable and include some kind of consideration for it to be valid. In many cases overly broad NC agreements were limited by the judge deciding the case or in some cases thrown out altogether. Depending on what state you live in Non-compete agreements may be harder to enforce. In Maryland where I live, it is pretty much impossible to enforce them since it is the position of the state that you cannot be prevented from earning a living in your chosen profession. Now client poaching from your employer is somewhat unethical but not illegal. There is also nothing wrong with leaving your job to work directly for a client of theirs since that it just using the contacts you built up at your other job which is how people find good jobs. If you work for Oracle in and later you get a job as the IT purchasing manager or Database manager with a big client of theirs, Oracle is a fool if they cry foul about it.

      For a non-compete to be valid it generally must be limited. It can't stop you from working in your field forever and anywhere. It has to specify a region of non-competition like the city the employer is in or the county. It also has to be for a limited and reasonable amount of time. And there has to be some consideration (ie money) coming to you in exchange for agreeing to this.

      Remember there is no such thing as a "standard contract" in anything and if you don't like something in a contract ask them about it. If you have a specific project you don't want them to own then make them exclude that in the contract.

      A lot of times companies barely look at their "standard contracts" and often there are some strange provisions that don't really match to the job. I got an intership and they gave me a contract that included ownership of inventions and an agreement to not hold any other job. Obviously a 3 day a week intership does not need such provisions. So I said they needed to change those things and they gave me a different contract.

    8. Re:Say it isn't so by stienman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why is it a company can own my ideas...?

      When you are a salaried employee, in most states, then you do not 'clock in' and 'clock out' of work - you may be thinking about a work problem in the shower, and the company still benefits.

      This has the implication that any work you do within the scope of your job description, possibly within the scope of the employer's products or internal services, and possibly anything you think about at all, belongs to the company.

      This is what a salaried employee is in most states.

      I've talked to some people who work as consultants on the side in addition to full time employment. Most make certian their employer is aware of their side business. One provided a CD of all the generic code and libraries they'd developed over the years, and wrote on the contract that anything developed before employment did not belong to the company. It takes some time to go through this sort of process, and some employers may balk at it, but it may be the only way to overcome this 'problem'.

      -Adam

    9. Re:Say it isn't so by macdaddy · · Score: 4, Informative

      My standard response when given any sort of contract is that I'll get back with them in a week after my attorney and I have had time to review the contract further. If they ask you why simply tell them that you are an IT professional, not a legal professional and want to cover your bases. You would be surprised how often that small assertion of your rights will benefit you in the long run. Don't bother signing a contract with any company that insists you sign it then and there or tries to dissuade you from having a lawyer refer the contract before signing it. Odds are they have something to hide. Also ask for copies of all paperwork that you need to sign for the employment in advance and take it with your contract to your lawyer. Companies tend to keep contractual clauses and restrictive policies separate from employment contracts. On average having an lawyer spend a hour with me to review my contract over lunch costs me about $50 plus lunch. I wouldn't consider doing it any other way.

    10. Re:Say it isn't so by hotbutteredhtml · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's more like tattoo it on your ass. Then you can claim that they agreed to it when they hired you and that they could have read it at any time. You could even offer to show it to the court if need be.

      --
      how 'bout I give you the finger....and you give me my phone call.
  5. Good thing... by rd_syringe · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...I do no thinking at work, or I'd be worried by this judgment.

  6. Sadly, yes... by dhakbar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Where I work (a well-known PC gaming company) employees must sign a document that basically states that any concepts and technology are developed while employed here are property of the company.

    In some ways, corporate America really treats employees like slaves.

    1. Re:Sadly, yes... by 1shooter · · Score: 5, Funny
      In some ways, corporate America really treats employees like slave.


      Maybe you should tell your boss how you are enslaved working there and perhaps you will be freed.
      --
      6F 9E A9 1E 96 9F 74 27 ED B8 81 6D 0C 4E 1E 78
      My other Sig is a 229.
    2. Re:Sadly, yes... by sploxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wonder if all these documents and provisions of the companies are overall economically efficient....

      For the particular company, it's a plus to extort it's employees in such a way. But now, with such a known case of lawful "mind-owning", maybe some people will be more careful about what ideas they'll give to their employer... thus hampering the free flow of ideas which mainly drives the economy.

      The same happens IMHO with quick hiring and firing of people. Noone thinks that it is wortwhile to work more than is neccessary for not getting fired. And noone gives more of his/her ideas than what is neccessary to keep the job.

      Maybe someone with knowledge of both economy and social sciences can defeat or confirm this argument?

    3. Re:Sadly, yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In some ways, corporate America really treats employees like slaves.

      Or do American employees let corporations treat them like slaves? Nobody forced you to sign that document and work for that company. You could have refused and looked for another employer. I've done exactly that a few times: I was presented with employment "contracts" that had abusive clauses in them, I said no thanks and went looking for better companies. In a couple of cases, I refused the contract even when I was unemployed at that time.

      The only reason companies make you sign these documents is because most engineers will sign anything (NOTE: this is not related directly to the present article). If most of us refused to sign abusive contracts, or better yet we presented the employers with a standard fair contract and said "take it or leave it," then companies would stop trying to make us slaves.

      The root of the problem is that most computer-related colleges and universities forget to teach their students about employment and contract laws, business, patents, copyrights, etc.

    4. Re:Sadly, yes... by Otter · · Score: 5, Insightful
      With all /. articles, but particularly in the YRO section, it's worth reading beyond the always skewed, frequently wrong summaries.

      According to the court's ruling, the guy was hired in 1987 and signed a perfectly ordinary waiver requiring that he disclose any inventions relevant to the subject of his work. He disclosed this reverse compiler idea in 1996. In my experience, when you sign those IP waivers you have the opportunity to decalre any existing work and it's extremely worth your while to give your brain a good wracking to make sure you get anything worthwhile on that paper.

    5. Re:Sadly, yes... by peacefinder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So quit.

      No, seriously, leave. Get out. If you feel like you are being treated like a slave, get out while you can. We are citizens, not serfs, and we don't have to put up with that crap. Your dignity is worth a great deal of money. Find a way to leave.

      For the rest of you, read the pre-employment contracts that your prospective employers ask you to sign. If you don't like something in it, cross it out and initial it, then point out the struck section for the hiring manager to initial as well before you sign. If they initial it, keep a copy forever. If they refuse to initial it, refuse to sign the contract. Sure, that may mean you don't get the job... is that really so bad?

      (IANAL, of course, so my method may be insufficient. If you're really worried about it, then by all means seek proper legal advice.)

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    6. Re:Sadly, yes... by geek · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Sure, that may mean you don't get the job... is that really so bad?"

      It's been 3 years since I could find a decent paying job that paid the bills. So yes, it's really that bad. If it was one or two companies doing this then you could just not sign and move on, however it's now industry standard and unavoidable anywhere within this country.

      If there was some revolt where people didn't sign anymore, guess what, that's what off shoring is. I was replaced by an Indian at my last good paying job. I got stuck working at a grocery store and was again recently fired and replaced with an illegal Mexican. It's a problem.

    7. Re:Sadly, yes... by Aadain2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, pride and "doing the right thing" don't put food on the table or clothes on the kids' backs. Employees need employers MUCH more than employers need employees. And the fact that everyone does this kind of contract means you will have to leave the field of technology completely to stand up for your rights. I doubt we can get enough people to give up their jobs at nice tech companies to go flip burgers and pump gas just to make a point to all the employers of the world.

      --
      Space for rent, inquire within
    8. Re:Sadly, yes... by peacefinder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obviously, sometimes it is that bad. I strongly suspected I'd get at least one reply like yours. I really do empathize with your plight.

      But not everyone is in that position. Some people are in a much stronger position to negotiate, and accept unreasonable terms of employment simply because they are careless. This hurts us all.

      This trend you note came to be when unscrupulous managers discovered that employees just signed whatever was put in front of them. Why not ask to own them? We have only two ways to stop it: legislate against it, or incite all of us to stop meekly complying with employers' unfair demands.

      I can't legislate, but I sure can try to incite disobedience. ;-)

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
    9. Re:Sadly, yes... by peacefinder · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bottom line...once you sign that contract, they own your ass.

      I entirely agree. So don't sign the contract!!

      A contract is an enforceable agreement between two parties. A contract proposal is nothing but a piece of paper with some ink on it. There's nothing magical or mysterious about a proposed contract that should prevent you from altering it to suit you better. (Think of it as legal source code.) If you don't like what it says or don't understand it, for heaven's sake don't sign until you do!

      If you are presented with a pre-employment contract, you have nothing to lose by striking out sections you don't like and asking them to initial it. If they really don't like your proposed changes, I'm sure they'll be able to dig up a fresh copy while you re-consider the seriousness of your objections. (If they're willing to show you the door over one set of photocopies, after all the expense of interviewing you, I'm thinking it's not such a good place to work anyway.)

      Maybe you need the job so bad you're willing to bear the burdens the contract imposes. Maybe they were just trying to see what they could get, and won't object to an altered agreement. There's only one way to find out... try it.

      What have you got to lose, besides your freedom?

      --
      With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
  7. I feel we're not getting the whole story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Maybe it's just me, but this reporting seems so onesided. Perhaps it all boiled down to a non-compete clause that specifically forbade the guy from personally developing products similar to and based upon products sold by the company?

  8. Re:BIG BROTHER ALCATEL by jmccay · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ideas can be owned if they are talked about AND you sign a paper that says they own you.

    --
    At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
  9. Uh... by Rinikusu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but doesn't it say he's appealing the ruling and that the appellate court said that the Judge did not meet the requirements for a final judgement and have sent the case back down to the same Judge? ???

    yes, the judge made a ruling, but judge's rulings get overturned all the time. Talk to me when it gets to the Supreme Court, mkay?

    --
    If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
  10. He shouldn't have signed the contract. by bretharder · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the article @ wired he signed a contract:

    "The company said it owned Brown's idea because of a signed employment agreement requiring him to disclose any inventions he conceived of or developed while at the company."

    Sadly right/wrong doesn't matter if it's legal...

  11. Re:BIG BROTHER ALCATEL by kfg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Tell it to the patent office.

    KFG

  12. I tried that, it didn't work by Pac · · Score: 4, Funny

    They refused to promote me to management.

  13. Shop Around, Read the Fine Print by MooseByte · · Score: 4, Insightful


    There are plenty of employers out there with reasonable IP agreements to be had. Be sure to read the fine print, shop around for a company that's fair.

    Frankly I think it's reasonable for a company to "own" my thoughts as related to the core business of that company, and any development activities that pertain to it.

    However if my employer pays me for insurance database work and I'm writing a game in my spare time though, hell no, it's mine. And I won't sign on with any company that disagrees.

    One large company I worked for asked me to declare any and all previous projects I wanted to claim as mine before I joined them. I just made it one long list, several existing and a dozen or two "someday" projects just in case. Cheap insurance. ;-)

    Read carefully and work it to your advantage.

    1. Re:Shop Around, Read the Fine Print by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Frankly I think it's reasonable for a company to "own" my thoughts as related to the core business of that company, and any development activities that pertain to it.

      You're right. It may sound silly and unfair at first, but think about the alternative:

      Let's say you own a software company, and you hire a software engineer to solve a particularly complex problem. You give this new hire some training, provides him with experience and resources, and then pay him to work on the problem all day. Finally, after months of working on the problem, he comes up with some terrific solution. You tell him to go ahead and implement it, at which point he turns around and claims "Oh, no. I thought of that on my off-time. In fact, the idea comes from earlier ideas I had from before I worked here (which many ideas do). So, well, if you want to use it, you need to license it from me. If you don't pay me enough, I'll sell it to your competitors."

      This situation is what this agreements and their legal enforcements are intended to prevent. That there is potential for abuse is not necessarily grounds to tear up the whole system. Besides, I've never heard of a case of one of these agreements being used successfully to seize IP clearly unrelated to what the employee was working on. I'd bet it's rare.
  14. Final proof the corporations have more rights by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    than citizens. I personally hope this gets appealed to SCOTUS- and then I say if they uphold corporate rights over citzenry, we take that as a sign that it's time for a new revolution.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Final proof the corporations have more rights by Jason+Earl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whatever. I had similar wording in my employment contract. I asked to have it reworded and it was reworded. The contract that I ended up signing stated specifically that I owned everything that I developed on my own time that wasn't related to the development I did at work. I even got permission to contribute to Free Software projects that I *did* use at work.

      Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware. If you don't read your employment contract you can't expect someone else to do it for you.

      As someone who has been both an employer (with my own business) and an employee I can tell you that this has far less to do with "corporate rights" and far more to do with employment contracts. Employment contracts specify what the employer expects in return for a wage. You can't hardly blame your employer for trying to get the best of the bargain. After all, you are trying to get the best deal you can get from your employer as well.

  15. Su Do Nym by freeio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because I have a corporate past, some of my works must be published under a pseudonym. The honorable history of the "nom de plume" descends from this and other crazy rulings.

    Does the record label own all the works of "Joe Skunk?" Fine, release your nest record as "Joseph Weasel" and they will never know.

    Does your employer prohibit your publications without prior review, and rejects everything you say? Fine, publish under another name.

    Does anyone remember the Ada language books by "Do While Jones?" They were published under a false name for just this sort of reason. (And, no, I am not Do While Jones.)

    Moral? Say what you please, release what you will, but misdirect them as to who was saying it. Sometimes freedom comes with a strange price.

    --
    Soli Deo Gloria
  16. Re:Want it fixed? Get rid of the judges! by black+mariah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yeah, that fucker of a judge ruled that a legally binding contract was legally binding. What a bastard, going around upholding laws like that. Someone should fire him.

    For the slow amongst you, yes that was sarcasm.

    --
    'Standards' in computing only impress those who are impressed by things like 'standards'.
  17. rather simple to protect yourself. by Greg@RageNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So you have the oportunity to avoid this when you sign up for employment with a new company that 'owns your thoughts' (or doesn't want you walking away from the company with an idea you derived as part of your job duties at the company). Whenever they have that clause it's common for them to have you identify your past inventions. Anything you think you may productize or is a work in your brain you should list here. If your item is on this list and your contract is like most your employer cannot lay claim to these 'previous inventions'.

    And folks, FOLKS, don't sign anything you haven't read and don't understand. And if you don't like provisions in it, cross them out and initial it then sign it. There's nothing that says you have to accept their employment contract verbatim. Most HR folks won't bother to chase you down or make a big fuss if it's just 'fluff' wording anyway. Read your contract, sign it, and then accept the terms you have agreed to in writing.

    We don't need more 'laws' to protect the 'poor workers' from their 'corporate enslavers', folks need to just not be f**kn p*****s when they accept a job somewhere. If the terms of employment are acceptable then take it, if not ask for different terms or look for a different employer. A job aint a handout, it's an arrangement with mutual benefit to BOTH employer and employee.

    -- Greg

    --
    Slashdot, would a spell-checker for posting be too much to ask? It's not rocket science!
  18. Be careful what you sign! by jfmerryman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I was hired by my current employer, they asked me to sign the same sort of agreement - stating that they owned anything that I developed before employment (if not named), and anything I developed during my employment. I balked and they quickly produced an alternate employment agreement which granted me rights to anything I developed on my own time and without using company equipment.

    I suspect that this is fairly common practice. If you don't ask, they certainly won't offer (except in California, where I believe this is the law)

  19. Re:Depends on his Contract by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Upon his hire, he was required to sign an employment agreement, pledging to provide the company with all information concerning any discoveries or inventions he made or conceived while in its employ which related to the nature of the company's business."
    Note, of course, that this isn't the same as "owning the employees thoughts," which is just the traditional Slashdot Headline Troll.
    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. Google's employees by usefool · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Google encourages employees to use 1 day per week on their own hobby/project, does that mean...?

    --
    Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
  22. Re:Depends on his Contract by Veridium · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well IMO, when companies start claiming the rights to thoughts you have that aren't related to work you're doing for them, it's gone too far, regardless of what contract you signed.

    This is bad precedent. I mean, once this is allowed to stand, then "thought police" become not only conceivable, but neccesary. That's too damned far. If the law is going to push us in this direction, then the law has outgrown its usefulness to a free people.

    If Texans truly value their freedom, they have to revolt against this on some level. I'm not advocating armed revolt here either...

    --
    Think for yourself, destroy your television.
  23. There is a certain irony in this... by wintermute42 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From a quick read of Evan Brown's web site it appears that the "unique idea" he claims is a decompiler. That is, a program that will take compiled binary code and convert it into some kind of source code. As an idea this does not seem to be terribly unique or profound. What is difficult is implementing this idea in working software.

    Evan Brown claims that the company he has been in litigation with offered him $2 million for the rights to his "idea". Apparently he turned them down. According to the web site they then sued Mr. Brown claiming to own the idea anyway.

    What I find ironic is that as an "idea" a decompiler is certainly not worth much. An actual implementation, that can be easily retargeted, might be worth $2 million, but it is not clear that this is what Mr. Brown had, or that he was capable of creating this kind of software. The guy was working as tester and debugger, not a compiler developer. His skills seem to have been hacking an existing software base, not creating new, complex software.

    While I am sympathetic with Mr. Brown's David vs. Goliath fight, it does seem that his difficulties lie in being difficult. It seems like there must have been a way out of this other than years of litigation.

    The case also seems to turn on Texas law. While I am tempted to make nasty comments about the state that elected G.W. Bush governor, I'll resist. After all he might be "elected" president and I would not want an all expense paid trip to the US resort in Cuba.

    I will note that at least in California work that you do on your own time that is not related to your employers work belongs to you. And given the history of startup companies here, it also appears that in many cases you can use related work as long as you quit first.

    Oh, and by the way, I have a compiler development background. I'd be happy to deliver a decompiler for $2 million...

    1. Re:There is a certain irony in this... by eric76 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      it is not clear that this is what Mr. Brown had, or that he was capable of creating this kind of software

      Actually, Evan is one of the most capable and impressive software developers I've ever known.

      If most people had made the statements that Evan made, I would not have believed them. But considering the source, if Evan claimed he could do it, I am quite confident that he could do it.

  24. Not true for California by dananderson · · Score: 4, Insightful
    IANAL. I don't know about Texas, but in California an employer does NOT own your invention rights. This is true even if you signed your invention rights away in some agreement with your employer.

    There's one big exception though. If you developed any of your invention rights on company time or used company resources (even if allowed), your employer has rights if you signed one of those agreements.

  25. Re:Damn lawyers by DaveJay · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know, I always took that aspect of Ayn Rand's books (esp. Atlas Shrugged) to be great in theory, but not directly applicable to the real world.

    Then I was fighting someone at work who had put us into a really awkward and inappropriate situation, not by mistake or sheer incompetence, but because he knew we'd make it work no matter what.

    When I pointed out what he'd done, and that while we COULD fix it, we SHOULDN'T, he said "You're being theoretical. You need to deal in practical reality."

    That phrase is a common one in those books, and one I always felt was over-the-top and would never be uttered in the real world. Surprise!

    This is only relevant because so many of her characters did just what the previous poster suggests -- stop thinking and working for those who would make it harder to work and think, even while profiting from the fruits of that thought and labor.

    Or, as Scott Adams said in one of his books (paraphrasing) -- what if a coworker jumped out a high window, not because he was suicidal, but because he thought it was a great shortcut to the parking lot. Do you catch him, thus affirming his decision (and thus ensuring he will repeat it), or do you let him drop and suffer the consequences of your inaction?

  26. Credit card applications... by Bull999999 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This reminds me of the credit card applications. People sign them without reading the fine print and act suprised when they get raped with various fees and high interest rate.

    While I'm not condoning this type of behavior, we need to start thinking about the rights that we sign away everyday for the mighty dollar.

    --
    1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
  27. Sucks but look at it from the other side. by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most development processes tend to be continuous and interwoven. You have an idea about a problem at work while your'e about to fall asleep at home. The next day you start the implementation at the office. While your'e at the office on hold you have an idea about a pet project and you do work at home. If your'e bored on a train or a plain to a customer you may go further.

    From the companies viewpoint they are gambling. Their engineers may come up with little more than microsoft style innovations, or they may come up with blockbusters. Either way the engineers are usually getting paid a decent salary with benefits while they are there.

    Its very difficult to draw the line at what a brain is doing and when. If someone comes up with product directly related to the companies business and what the employee is working on, they have a certain right to be suspicious of assertions that it was done on my own time.

    From a civil rights perspective, and a social perspective, this may be something that should not be legal or at least regulated. You can't sell your vote, you can't be forced into contracts under duress, you can't be forced to give away right via a shrinkwrap agreement (though alot of people have done a good job of convincing people they can). Should an employer have the right to force their employees give up the fruits of their creative endeavors as a condition of employment. Employment is a tangible need for most people and forcing employees to agree to such contracts may constitute a form of coercion or duress.

    There is of course the consequences to tilting this playing field either way. Tilting it to the employer can cause people to either just give away their work or not reveal it. Tilting things to the employee could cause the employer to shift hiring to a local where things are more in their favor.

    Its not a simple issue. In this case there was almost certainly a few greedy assholes in the company, but they seem to turn up everywhere.

  28. Bull by geekoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What ahppens when every company has a contract that says they own everything you think of, even before employment? Are we all suppose to starve, because thats what it comes down to, go hungry, or let the 'Corp' own everything.
    It seems to me that shouldn'e be allowed and WE do need government intervention to maitain a balance.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  29. Chilling effect ? by elpapacito · · Score: 3, Funny

    Let's make some safe assumption shall we :

    1. The majority of companies that operate in your field of work choose to apply the "I own your inventions" provision as standard in contracts.

    2. But you oppose it, on the reasonable grounds that

    a)being employed in one company doesn't imply that the company helped develop/conceive the
    idea even if the product is sold in the same market.

    b)the burden of proof of misappropriation should be on the company, there shouldn't be a burden on inventor who patented the idea, as he's potentially disclosing the idea to the world by patenting it.

    3. Therefore, you find yourself out of 80-100% of your job's market and are indirectly forced to get another job, at least until you find some better company in your field (which may never happen)

    I can't think of anything more chilling to innovation and invention then a provision that says "everything you haven't disclosed to us before is likely to be ours" ; who in his right mind would ever -think- about inventing something in his field of works, knowing that a previous employer may sue the hell out of him and win, only because of the amount of money they have and the amount you don't ?

  30. The problem is... by fpga_guy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The problem is that in working with any reasonable tech company, you are going to be exposed to ideas that will co-mingle with any existing or new "private" ideas of your own.

    It's the nature of human creativity, and it's almost impossible (and meaningless) to disentangle the two.

    Clearly, blanket assignment of all "IP" (I hate that term) to the employer is not fair, but nor is it reasonable to argue that his private stuff is completely seperate.

    A reasonable reward scheme for new ideas generated by employees would be the best idea - isn't that what IBM (and recently Microsoft) does? Basically you assign the patent to the company, but you are listed as the inventor and get a license income stream plus "invention bonus"...

  31. Corporations win the rat race. by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Corporations have won their war against *the people*, on behalf of *some people*. Now they own your body while you're on the clock, and your mind while under contract. Only the 14th Amendment prevents them from owning your body off the clock, but drug tests carve out their niche in that protected realm, despite the 5th Amendment.

    America was a political colony of an over-extended European monarch. We kicked him, and his antiquated system, out, but less than a century later, we created his corporate successor. Within a century of that evolution, we are now back where we started, but with a new, less beatable decentralized master. Where in the world are the new revolutionaries? Farthest from the centers of corporate power, most under its control, and therefore most aware of its tyranny; the most independent of those people will reach a threshold where they escape corporatism's hold, and establish a new order. Who are they?

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  32. Illinois law protects the worker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I just signed on with Accenture in Illinois, and the contract I had to sign specifically stated anything I make on my own time withount using company resources is mine.

    Apparently it's a state law. The lesson to be learned is don't work for IT in Texas.

    On the other hand, this guy turned down $2 million for his idea. This isn't joe shmoe getting shafted, this is somebody being greedy and his company is playing hardball.

  33. It all boils down to this: by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Use your eyeballs and your brain and RTFP (paperwork) before you accept a job. If you don't like what it says, DON'T TAKE THE JOB. It's that simple. I turned down two job offers because they had all-encompassing IP rights clauses in their policies. I finally found a great job with a great employer whose policy is "If we pay you to do it, it's ours. If it's related to the business unit that employs you, it's ours. Otherwise, we could give a flip."

    We're even allowed to use company resources (computers, labs, etc) for personal projects so long as we ask our manager beforehand and get approval. I guess there are some good things about working for a huge company that has bigger things to worry about than the little widget you're coming up with in your dreams.

  34. Read this if you've ever had a thought of your own by 955301 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you plan to work on anything related to your career outside of the company, create a corporation and work through it!! Companies don't write subcontract agreements that encroach on the sub's intellectual property, which is what you have! They write employment agreements that do.

    If you plan on doing something with your ideas, then commit! Start an S-Corp, get some liability insurance, and have your "employer" pay you by invoice instead, and sub out your own payroll. You will NEVER be asked to give up your company's intellectual property by any business you truly want to work with.

    Sure the opportunities are more slim, but hey, you're coming up with stuff on your own time, so put your money where your mouth is.

    I did this and my client started with a subcontractor agreement that explicitly stated that my IP was my IP and their IP was theirs. It was refreshing.

    Yes, Virginia, the laws are made to benefit the corporation. So Incorporate!

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  35. This is why you negotiate your contract by achurch · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I changed jobs recently, this was one of the top things on my mind. So I negotiated with the company to get the following clause into my contract (translated from Japanese):

    1. All rights to inventions, technology, software, etc. ("IP") developed by Employee as a direct result of work for Employer ("Work-Related IP") belong to Employer.
    2. All rights to IP developed by Employee not as a direct result of work for Employer ("Personal IP") belong to Employee.
    3. Rights to Work-Related IP derived from or otherwise containing Personal IP are to be decided in discussions between Employer and Employee.
    4. Employer and Employee agree to execute any documents, assignations, etc. necessary to confirm IP rights.
    5. Employer agrees to pay Employee a portion of any profits made from Employee's Work-Related IP based on Employee's amount of contribution to said profits.

    Admittedly, I had the advantage that the company I work for now called me instead of me applying for a job, which gave me a fairly good bargaining position. But at least for smaller companies, where the company isn't too strangled in rules and standard procedures, something like the above shouldn't be too hard to work out--if you try.

  36. Cross it out by baughdw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I always cross out the unfair statements in any work agreement. Stop being sheep and do what you know is right. Your employer knows it's right too.

  37. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If you plan to work on anything related to your career outside of the company, create a corporation and work through it!

    Nothing personal, your advice is great, but this drives me nuts. Why are corps so much better off then people? Kill a few dozen people, you get the death penalty. Lie about your product and kill a huge number of people, no problem keep selling tobacco.

    The whole thing seems like a shell game rich people can play that people who can't afford lawyers can get burn if they try.

    Sorry. Rant off.

  38. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Corporations are more important because they have more money.

  39. If they do, they should be charged with indeceny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    The company I work for should only own my thoughts if they want to move from software into porn.

  40. Re:BIG BROTHER ALCATEL by Catbeller · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Some things cannot be contracted away. The classic example is the right not to be owned, ie be a slave.

    This has not been strictly enforced over the years. For instance, Scientology's "Sea Org" (the navy/management/lifers) requires their services for this life and I believe a billion years of subsequent lives. I don't know how this contract'd be enforced, tho.

    I am getting a little more frightened about the rightward ho-ing of the judiciary. Being pro-business is one thing, but letting them own our thoughts?

    What happens when, sometime in the next 100 years, it will be technologically possible to monitor human thoughts? Will we be scanned at work to see if we are thinking anything worth owning? This is not reducing the concept to its absurd conclusion. I'm serious here.

    The right to be secure in our person and possessions should be extended to add security from intrusion of our own damned heads! Screw property rights. Our minds are the only thing they can't own - today - but brick by brick they are prepping a truly unbreakable prison.

  41. Just Goes To Show . . . by White+Roses · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It doesn't pay to think at work.

    --
    Do not touch -Willie
  42. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Funny

    In the future, all property will be owned by corporations, as their rights, and freedom from liability, dwarf that of humans. So everyone should have at least one corporation. Preferably multinational.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  43. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by Grax · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Personally I am in favor of the death penalty for corporations convicted of murder.

    It is possible to incorporate without a lawyer. All you need to do is fill out some paperwork and file it with the government. Whether or not you use a lawyer I would still recommend doing your homework so you know what you are getting into.

  44. Should have lived in Germany ... by quarkscat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    where an employee's personal inventions are
    ALWAYS owned by the employee, NEVER by the
    employer.

    In the USA, the employer basically OWNS the
    employee (and any useful employee thoughts.)

    If I weren't such a dummy with the German
    language (written & spoken), I might have
    emigrated there long ago. Personal freedom
    in the USA is rapidly slipping away, especially
    with the "corporate national socialist" regime
    in power today.

  45. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by 955301 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I disagree. In fact, what your company does is the exact reason a company hires you to provide services to them.

    It's like this. You are a software developer. You write communication and telephone equipment software. You are hired by AT&T as a subcontractor to, what? Write telephone equipment software. You are not obligated to have them as your only client. You are also not obligated to give them everything your company creates.

    Agreed that it's a different landscape of companies and services which you work with and perform. But then my response assumed the parent poster wasn't bs'ing about wanting to do something with stuff he created on the side.

    At some point, if you have original ideas, you must create a company to sell them, if they are to go anywhere.

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  46. Understand what you are agreeing to by alien_blueprint · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... and be prepared to negotiate.

    When changing jobs recently, I was offered an onerous IP agreement. I manage to get it amended without too much hassle - and not just for me, but (I'm told) for all future employees. Having been through this a couple of times before, it seems to me that the authors of such agreements grab everything they can by default, and will just fall over at the least sign of resistance.

    You do have to be prepared to walk away. If you're not able to decline (for financial reasons, for example) and sign the thing anyway you really have no right to complain later. At the very least you should be aware of what you're agreeing to, so at least then you can choose not to develop particularly valuable IP in your own time and with your own resources. I was amazed by the number of people working for my new employer that didn't even know what they had signed.

  47. NIETZCHE - THE GAY SCIENCE BK I -APHORISM 40 by benzapp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On the lack of noble manners. - Soldiers and leaders still have far better relationships with each other than workers and employers. So far at least, culture that rests on a military basis still towers above all so-called industrial culture: the latter in its present shape is altogether the most vulgar form of existence that has yet exisxted. Here one is at the mercy of brute need; one wants to live and has to sell oneself, but one despises those who exploit this need and buy the worker. Oddly, suibmission to powerful, frightening, even terrible persons, like tyrants and generals, is not experienced as nearly so painful as is the submission to unknown and uninteresting persons, which is what all the luminaries of industry are. What the workers see in the employer is usualy only a cunning, bloodsucking dog of a man who speculates on all misery; and the employer's name, shape, manner, and reputation are a mater of complete indifference to them. The manufacterers and entrepreneuers of business probably have been too deficient so far in all those forms and signs of a higher race that alone makes a person interesting. If the nobility of birth showed in their eyes and gestures, there might not be any socialism of the masses. For at bottom, the masses are wiling to submit to slavery of any kind, if only the higherups constantly legitimize themselves as higher, as born to commad - by having noble manners. The most common man feels that nobility cannot be improvised and that one has to honor in it the fruit of long periods of time. But the lack of higher manners and the notorious vulgarity of the manufacturers with their ruddy, fat hands give him the idea that it is only accident and luck that has elevated one person above another. Well then, he reasons: let us try accident and luck! Let us throw the dice! And thus socialism is born.

    --
    I don't read or respond to AC posts
  48. Be careful! you may get what you ask for . . . by werdna · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some of my brothers here have suggested, in many cases eloquently, that the law should not permit someone to divest their inventions as part of an employment agreement, or even to propertize their inventions at all in order to protect employees from overreaching employers.

    This cuts both ways. Many of us would love to have jobs where we are hired to do nothing, but think, dream and invent. Such a law precludes the job from existing? Who would pay to have you think, dream and invent, if they weren't entitled to the benefit of that bargain?

    Some have observed that for those of us who invent, we need merely refuse to sign these agreements and refrain from taking the jobs. Others responded that this is nice, in theory, but a practical impossibility for those who want to work -- You have to sign to get the jobs. . And of course, there is always the entrepreneurial route of inventing, finding investors and trying to make it on your own. The truth, of course, is somewhere inbetween.

    But if we legislate against alienation of invention, then those of us who invent won't even have the option to refuse to sign the agreements -- the only thing we can do is to go the entrepreneurial route, and then only if we permit the inventor to assign the rights to his invention to the company (how else to raise capital?)

    So, at the end of the day, it may well be that maintaining the right to assign the invention GIVES MORE OPTIONS, at least in theory, than laws that preclude it. For those of us who prefer not to take risks and to work for invention mills, the inability to alienate deprives us from exchanging large upside of our inventions for a regular paycheck and the ability to work in fun labs with smart people. For those of us who want to be risk-takers and innovators, we are free under both regimes, unless you go all the way and deprive me of a property right to my inventions and the ability to assign it.

    In fact, markets shift. Sometime, smart people are in great demand -- as we were during the bubble. Other times, anybody with technical chops will do. We can call our shots when in demand, and not when we are not. Those of us who are not as good have fewer options. But I am not sure how employment law gives any of us any more options.

    That said, I think statutory protections assuring retention of demonstrable previous inventions not previously assigned and perhaps demonstrable previous inventions not related to the business --except for people who are hired to be pure R&D types-- and not made using company resources is not a bad idea. But taking it any further than that is very dangerous, and ultimately bad for us in my view.

  49. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by Analogy+Man · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I think it is a matter of insulating the business world from your soul...a corporate entity in itself has no soul/emotion/angst/id whatever. If there is money to be had the dispassionate corporation will do so regardless of right or wrong, but within the law (hopefully).

    So if you are an inventor and that gives you joy, protect your ability to invent.

    If you enjoy golf. Golf...and leave your cell phone at home.

    If you value your family, and your job demands you unduly shortchange them, find a new job or resist the temptation to be consumed by the one you are in.

    In a nutshell, look out for whatever is important to you. Your employer, boss, government certainly won't.

    --
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
  50. Re:Read this if you've ever had a thought of your by jsebrech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are corps so much better off then people?

    Many reasons.

    The first reason is because they can't die. Even bankrupcy doesn't necessarily mean death to the corporation, and certainly doesn't mean death to its assets.

    Corporations can outwait humans. If a human has something a corporations wants, all they have to do is wait a few decades. It's like with getting themselves declared a person. The very idea is ridiculous, but by asking for it decade after decade eventually the new humans got so used to hearing the demand their entire lives that they thought it was a reasonable one to make.

    Also, corporations can more easily merge their assets. If you can do good woodwork, and a friend knows how to market woodworking products, you can't merge with that friend and become one person who knows how to market the woodwork products he made. A corporation can.

    And another reason is that corporations are not slowed down by a conscience, a soul or any kind of morality. A corporation is an amoral godless soulless psychopath, and because it does not care about anything but maximizing profit it can be radically effective at what it does. Individual humans within the corporation who obstruct the aim of maximizing profit because of morality or some other silly human reason get weeded out over time. The list of CEO's who have explained that they have to make evil decisions or they get fired is long. Shareholders are generally the only ones who could enforce morality, but corporations own most of the shares, and when you trace them back to humans the humans tend to not be involved with the running of the business much, and instead just want return on investment.

    In essence, the way corporations operate naturally makes them more powerful than humans. The task of government is to compensate for this and give preference to humans over corporations. But government has done the reverse, which is why the world is owned and operated by corporations.

    We did it to ourselves. We designed corporations so that they would rule us. Ofcourse, we can, and will, undo this. But it will require more people to become aware of the need to radically redefine what a corporation is and does.

  51. You can blame the Supreme Court by Hoi+Polloi · · Score: 3, Informative
    It all started with some rulings in the late 1800's.

    Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886)
    The substance of this case (a tax dispute) is of little significance, but several resources linked above detail how this fateful case subsequently was cited as precedent for granting corporations constitutional rights.

    Noble v. Union River Logging Railroad Company (1893)
    A corporation first successfully claims Bill of Rights protection (5th Amendment)

    "Corporate Personhood"

    --
    It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
  52. As a matter of trust by maximilln · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Many centuries ago employee agreements were not a problem. There was a natural feedback loop in the freedom of man to live indigenously. There were abundant natural resources which could be acquired through work and devotion.

    Society has evolved long past that. There is almost no free land anywhere. There are almost no free resources. Even if there were there is no free transportation to get there from here. In today's world a person must prove their usefulness to a company in order to earn the commonly accepted form of currency which they trade for the basic necessities of life.

    At the time of the industrial revolution there was little need for an employee agreement. The common shop workers weren't paid enough to have the opportunity to strike out on their own and set up a competing business. Shop managers were typically compensated fairly enough but still had little possibility of putting together the type of funding that it would take to make use of their knowledge to create a competing business. Those who were wealthy enough to be able to make use of their knowledge were also compensated well enough to keep them from having any desire to compete. In many cases this simple business approach still applies today.

    Why, then, has there been an evolution of employee agreements. As industry has become more powerful politically it has grown less efficient. In some instances the business bloat was so great that an enterprising employee was able to use what they learned on the job, working within an oppressive and stagnant atmosphere, and set up a company built on a "better way". Enter the need for an employee agreement.

    Still, though, there are still environments where the _goal_ is to create employees who can use what they've learned and strike out on their own. These are most commonly seen in skilled trades: the path from apprentice, to journeyman, to master craftsman. The very existence of skilled trades exemplifies that an industry can function, often fruitfully, without the need for employee agreements.

    What then is the real need for an employee agreement? It is greed and preservations of social divisions. Many trolls will abuse posters with,"If you don't like it then leave and start your own business." In truth many people in society have. But what of those of us who cannot start our own business because we're not financially priveleged? For the most part we're ridiculed and dismissed. Now what of those of us who cannot start our own business because it would be a contractual violation of a former employee agreement? Certainly this hasn't stopped people from leaving a bad employer to start their own business. What the employee agreement does is ensure that anyone who does start their own business does so with the blessing of the established players in the field. It is a system of nepotism that preserves power in the hands of those who already hold it. Any real competitors would be sued out of existence by a former employer long before they could get any real business started.

    Apparently Evan Brown tried to start his own business without the blessing of his employer. The real question here is: why wasn't the employer able to retain Mr. Brown? Could they not give him a raise or enough vacation to make him happy or is it that his management was composed of such intolerable selfishness that Mr. Brown did what any sane human would do?

    Employee agreements are a company's way of taking away the last chip that we, as intellectual workers, have: the ability to pack up and leave if the system has become intolerable. Anyone who is a proponent of these agreements is A) naive, B) pampered, C) blind. If the court had sided with Mr. Brown it would have sent a clear message to corporations: treat your employees fairly.

    --
    +++ATHZ 99:5:80
  53. Judgement Summary by ekoffler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well after reading the court's judgement the following paragraph seems to say a lot.

    Brown also claims Alcatel was not in the business of designing software, but was in the telecommunications business. Thus, the employment agreement is not applicable to the Solution. However, the evidence in the record establishes that Brown managed the group at Alcatel charged with maintaining and developing automated conversion tools for converting high-level code to low- level code. The record further shows that one of Brown's job functions was to manually convert Alcatel's existing low-level code to high-level code. The evidence shows Alcatel twice investigated automated conversion tools in 1993 and 1995. In addition, in 1993, Brown managed the employee charged with investigating the low-level to high-level automated code conversion process and received a status report on his research on October 18, 1993.
    We do not believe the court below erred in concluding Alcatel, pursuant to the employment agreement, "owns full legal right, title and interest to the process and/or method" that is known as the Solution. We overrule Brown's first issue in its entirety.

    So it seems he did create something related to work and not just a game or php code during his off-time.