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Human Powered Helicopter

marcopo writes "In response to a 24 year old prize challenge from the American Helicopter Society, a number of engineering students at the University of British Columbia have designed a human powered helicopter. The prize requirements are 3 minutes flight at 3 meters, with only human power, and the team, led by UBC's Mike Georgallis, plans a test flight next Tuesday. The Vancouver Sun also has the story."

58 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. The Fred Flintstone Chopper by mfh · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yaba-Daba-Dooooo!!!!! ~~~~~*Sppppppplat*

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:The Fred Flintstone Chopper by plover · · Score: 5, Funny
      More like the Fred Flintstone web server.

      "Pedal faster, Barney, we're getting slashdotted!"

      "Uh, gee, Fred, I don't think we should pedal any faster in this thing..."

      "Just shut up and pedal, Barney, we'll be -- "

      "FRED FLINTSTONE! YOU COME DOWN FROM THERE RIGHT THIS INSTANT!!"

      "But Wilma, the slashdotters want to see our pictures."

      "THIS INSTANT!"

      "Yes, Wilma."

      [ mechanical sproink sound ]

      "Aww, gee, Fred, I told you this thing wouldn't last."

      --
      John
  2. How much? by agraupe · · Score: 2

    If it's $1000, and you don't need a helicopter pilot's license, I'll buy one. If it works, that is.

    1. Re:How much? by c_oflynn · · Score: 2, Informative

      What is this? The linked page had a section CLEARLY TITLED "Project Cost"? Oh but no one would read that...

      Well it says about $29000 Canadian.

    2. Re:How much? by agraupe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, project cost is ambigous, as it may include research and things like that. The cost to produce another might be less.

    3. Re:How much? by op00to · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's actually over $70k unless you have some hookups at Boeing to give you the composite material for free...

    4. Re:How much? by JPriest · · Score: 2, Insightful
      They spent 30 grand for a device that will stay off the ground for 3 minutes with a pilot that probably is no doubt, more capable running this thing than most of us.

      This was only a concept flight, you would be better off saving money with cheaper heavier material and adding an engine.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    5. Re:How much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      $29,000 Canadian, so yeah, that's about what, $1000 US?

  3. Wait by Quasar1999 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can they use a battery? As in charge the battery using human power and then run the motor off the battery power???

    --

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    1. Re:Wait by KillerCow · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can they use a battery? As in charge the battery using human power and then run the motor off the battery power???

      From the rules:

      4.1.4 No devices for storing energy either for takeoff or for use in flight shall be permitted. Rotating aerodynamic components, such as rotor blades, used for lift and/or control are exempt from consideration as energy storing devices.,

  4. Interesting FAQ Question by danratherfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    12.) WILL IT FLY? The machine is heavier than originally designed... The unknown at the moment is whether the machine will break up prior to lift off. Whether or not any system will break up becomes all the more relevant when it involves humans and rotating blades.

  5. Bah, fraternities have had this for a long time by xsupergr0verx · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instruction manual:
    1. Place helmet on head. Take a swig from your hip flask. Decide you don't need the helmet.
    2. Spread arms parallel to ground.
    3. Hum 'whirrrr' as you spin yourself to speed.
    4. Upon striking your head on the floor on the way down, remark how free you feel in the open air.

    --

    Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
    1. Re:Bah, fraternities have had this for a long time by NewNole2001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why would you want a human powered helicopter?

      Uhm, because... Sometimes, you just do something for the sake of doing it.
      Seriously. How is it a waste of time or money? The people who are doing this probably have no medical knowledge that could help cure cancer.
      Speaking of a waste of time, back to reading more inane comments on /.

  6. OH NO! by schnits0r · · Score: 4, Funny

    First the machines use us to power helecopers! Soon they will have us power all their functions after we scortch the sun! Who is with me? We must stop this to save Zion!

  7. Do corpses burn hot enough for a steam engine? by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 5, Funny

    That's the only real question. They should be more careful wording the requirement.

    1. Re:Do corpses burn hot enough for a steam engine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      Yes of course corpses burn, here's a quote from an expert
      I shall only say that the fuel they use for the locomotive is composed of mummies three thousand years old, purchased by the ton or by the graveyard for that purpose, and that sometimes one hears the profane engineer call out
      pettishly, "D--n these plebeians, they don't burn worth a cent--pass out a King;"

      Mark Twain
      I am willing to believe it. An AC can believe any thing.
    2. Re:Do corpses burn hot enough for a steam engine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
      From the rules:
      4.2.2 No member of the crew shall be permitted to leave or enter the aircraft at any time during takeoff or flight.
      Drifting away as smoke and ash is probably included ...
    3. Re:Do corpses burn hot enough for a steam engine? by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now that's what I call thinking outside the box!

      To the AC that also responded: Just capture the smoke and ash with a filter, so it stays onboard.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  8. Long way. by Malicious · · Score: 5, Interesting

    3 Meters is a pretty high distance to fall from, even without being surrounded by fast moving metal, cogs, and chains. Considering that they'll want to optimize the weight of the machine, there will almost certainly be no safety cage or equipment.
    I sure as hell wouldn't want to pilot it.

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    01101001001000000110000101101101001000000110001001 10000101110100011011010110000101101110
    1. Re:Long way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I sure as hell wouldn't want to pilot it.

      That's why you're posting on Slashdot and not doing anything useful. Same with me.

    2. Re:Long way. by lommer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First of all, three meters isn't all that much, it's roughly 10 feet. Second, you're not surrounded by that much metal cogs and chains. As you pointed out they want to reduce weight, so almost the entire thing is built of composites. Further, if you read about the design, they are favouring larger, slower-moving rotors and associated equipment over faster smaller ones. Thirdly, any engineer worth his salt would take time to make sure that if the machine DID fall from 3 meters, the supports for the person/seat could be constructed to collapse and absorb the shock.

      Finally, as with most under-powered helicopters, the most likely mode of failure is only being able to hop a couple feet off the ground, if they can lift off at all. Read up some helicopter flying books sometime, it's pretty inderesting how much more the ground effect affects them than fixed wing aircraft. This post is much longer than inteded, so I'll cut here with the conclusion that I if I could fly helicopters, I'd jump on this opportunity in seconds. That said, flying a helicopter is probably one of the hardest things I've ever tried to do (I'm a fixed-wing pilot).

    3. Re:Long way. by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the machine breaks apart, then yes, you are probably in trouble. But if all that happens is a chain slips, pilot get tired, etc, then the craft will autogyro in. That is the spinning blades will allow the pilot down much easier.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Long way. by ergo98 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Lets put you in a chair and drop you straight down, see how well you fare.

      If the occupant instantly lost absolutely all lift, they'd hit the ground at about 27 km/h - fairly hard, but certainly not fatal or serious on most surfaces (I'd presume they'd do this over grass or the like). Of course in reality it's highly unlikely that absolutely all lift would disappear (the thing would have to get itself up to 3 meters - if it lost lift, it'd more likely be a gradual reduction), so the much more likely scenario is a signficantly slower impact. Maybe someone will twist an ankle or pull a joint, but it's hardly life threatening.

  9. Why bother? by foidulus · · Score: 3, Funny

    You already have the world's best human helicopter in Inspector Gadget.

  10. TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT! by Snover · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh man, their project is named Thunderbird. Quick, Mozilla Foundation! Send our your legions of lawyers! We must stop this blatant misuse of your trademarks!!

    --

    [insert witty comment here]
    1. Re:TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT! by devilspgd · · Score: 2, Funny

      Damnit, now we have to get FireSomething ported into ThunderSomething.

      --
      Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
  11. impossible? by nbert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    afaik it's quite hard to build a human powered plane (yes, someone made it from France to England many years ago). A helicopter is much trickier, because the pilot must run two rotors at the same time. It's not easy to transfer human energy to two places without adding much weight. I'm not an expert in helicopters, but it's kinda obvious to me that the pilot would have to use extraordinary effort to stay above the ground for 3 minutes.

    1. Re:impossible? by nbert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it will indeed spin around like mad if the little rotor existant. I already stated that I'm not into helicopters, but isn't it quite obvious that a helicopter can't fly if most of the energy is used for spinning the cockpit? Even if it would work it would be quite unlikely that the pilot could take it.

    2. Re:impossible? by Jason+Zaman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      hmm ... i must admit that i did not think about the wasted energy for the spinning cockpit. and it took a while to find this:

      4.1.2 [...] and at least one member of the crew shall be non-rotating.

      which makes the whole idea stupid, except maybe for a roller-coaster replacment :)

  12. The next bicycle? by Savet+Hegar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could something like this eventually be as common as the bicycle? I, for one, think it would be pretty cool to fly to work everyday.

    Reminds me of watching the Jetsons as a kid LOL

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    Mod points are pointless when you browse at -1.
  13. The George Jetson Chopper by Joey+Patterson · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Jane, get me off this crazy thing! JAAAAANE!!!" ~~~~~~~~ *Spppppplat*

  14. more efficient by prockcore · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wouldn't it be more efficient to just burn humans for fuel?

  15. Re:JPEG noobs by nbert · · Score: 2
    However, some of us aren't still stuck with 14.4 modems, so feel free to use less compression next time you make a site.
    some of us still use 14.4's. Apart from that I prefer whacky logos when it comes to slashdotted sites. They apparently care more about helicopters than a fancy presentation. I don't know what's wrong about that.
  16. recumbent postion by frankmu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i wonder why they went with the recombent position rather than a upright postion. i would imagine you get a little extra power upright. you're not worried about airdynamics when hovering also.

    --
    Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    1. Re:recumbent postion by stienman · · Score: 3, Informative

      The only reason you might get more power upright than recumbent is if you depend on gravity to force your body down so your legs have something (your weight) to react against.

      However, to generate 500 watts of power you need more than just your weight to push against. The pilot will likely be strapped into place, or at least have some sort of harness or surface to push their shoulders against, and someplace to put their hands.

      It's also possible, though not likely, that in a recumbent position the pilot could exert more energy with abdominal and arm muscles, since the torso would not necessarily be fixed on a seat.

      Imagine 5 100W light bulbs. Now imagine converting that light and heat into enough physical force to lift 200 pounds of stuff off the ground. Very interesting challenge.

      -Adam

    2. Re:recumbent postion by blancolioni · · Score: 3, Informative
      According to TFA:

      Results also show that for pilots tested in both vertical and recumbent positions, power output was very close. Recumbent position then is a benefit since it takes advantage of In Ground Effect (lower support structure).

  17. Re:JPEG noobs by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I get a whole 28.8 (somtimes just 26.4).
    Seriously though, most don't have broadband. So do you do a website for the small percentage who do, or for everyone?

    Mycroft
    (and no, I can't get a better connection without HUGE expense)

    --
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  18. Alex Kidd already invented this! by GnomeAttic · · Score: 2, Funny

    Everyone knows Alex Kidd invented the pedicopter in 1983.

  19. Re:Wings by KillerCow · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those wings have a huge volume, you should be able to get pretty good lift if you filled them with helium. Of course I don't know what the rules would say.

    From the rules:

    4.1.1 The machine shall be a heavier-than-air machine. The use of lighter-than- air gases shall be prohibited.

  20. 500 Watts by pHatidic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In case anyone here doesnt know about generating watts, 500 sustained for over 3 minutes is quite a task. I have been rowing for 7 years and this year our team had physiological testing where we started at 200 watts and increased by 50 every 2 minutes. I last about 8 minutes and managed to hit about 400 watts but couldnt hold it long enough to be allowed to continue to 450. We increased in this manner in order to find our VO2 maxes, and certainly had I started at 500 watts I could have held it for a while, maybe a minute and a half. But 3 minutes is just sick. Especially since this was on the rowing machine which uses all muscles and this guy is only uses his legs, no back and arms. This 3 minute test will generate enough lactic acid to kill the average 60 year old man, and will certainly leave him in excruciating pain if he is able to do it at all.

    1. Re:500 Watts by emeitner · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, the competition seems to require alot of the pilots. From the FAQ:
      We have built our own test rig that measures power output of a pilot over a minute duration. We have plotted the results of numerous potential pilots against their weight. A successful candidate is one that falls above a power requirement curve (power vs. weight). ... We have had people vomit after these one-minute tests. In similar tests in the United States they have had one person have a mild heart attack.

      Vomit AND rotating blades, nice.

      --
      Guru Meditation #6d416769.21610a21
    2. Re:500 Watts by the+pickle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The students on the team, according to the Vancouver Sun article, underwent extensive testing to see if any of them were up to it. The test pilot says he's been doing a LOT of cycling over the last five years as conditioning and practise.

      Even if he can't, I'll bet money that Lance Armstrong or a similarly well-conditioned pro cyclist can hold this thing off the ground easily.

      p

    3. Re:500 Watts by Zooka · · Score: 5, Informative
      Even if he can't, I'll bet money that Lance Armstrong or a similarly well-conditioned pro cyclist can hold this thing off the ground easily.
      I bet it will indeed take an exceptional athlete such as Armstrong to measure up to the task.
      Example:
      "Data from several researchers shows that professional cyclists produce power outputs of between 320 and 450 watts during time trials ranging from 5 to 70 km in major tours."
      "Dr. Alejandro Lucia, Universidad Europea de Madrid, Spain, has predicted that Lance Armstrong on his ascent of the Alpe D¹Huez (a 14 km climb of 8% mean gradient) in the 2001 Tour de France produced one of the greatest performances in the history of cycling: 38 minutes of near-maximal to maximal effort at an estimated mean power output as high as 475-500 watts! His average speed was 22 kilometers/hour, which he reached at a mean cadence of about 100-rpm using a 39 x 23 gear. Lance would have been averaging about 7 watts/kg."
      http://www.polarusa.com/consumer/powerkit/Article2 .asp
    4. Re:500 Watts by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another way to look at it is that 500 watts is almost exactly 2/3 horsepower.

  21. Call me when it WINS by angrist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    BAH, we have one of these teams at my school too (University of Michigan).

    Although i will admit i didn't RTFA, it's not news unless it actually FLIES. This has been tried and failed many many times already.

  22. Simple! by enginuitor · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just put the human(s), bald and naked, into liquid-filled pods and wire 'em up for electrical power! Then build some hovering tentacled robots to do maintenance. Then... ...Or you could do it the boring way -- you know, pedals and the like...

  23. Re:Wings by LauraScudder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The technique usually used for this I understand is conformal mapping. There's a little spiel and animation about it here. The calculation itself isn't really that fun, at least from what I remember from my homework assignments, but its pretty cool that it can be done systematically for all these airfoils.

    If you are into the details, from the the Riemann theorem quoted in the wikipedia link, any simply connected subset of the complex plane can be mapped onto a disk, and since it's easy to conformally map from a disk to the complex plane minus that disk - like in the figure on the second linked page - then once you know that first mapping for whatever shape your airfoil is (the hard part) you can figure out all the fluid flows around that shape. Of course, this entire technique only works for infinitely long airfoils, since the complex plane just represents a cross-section. If you dislike math and want the actual figure you can just stick it into an air-tunnel and skip the calculation. But you get the idea.

  24. you're a terrible writer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Aside from that, let me attack your points.

    I consider 10 feet or 3 meters to be high enough to cause significant injury to a simple terran.

    The gears and chains are made out of metal if you look at the pictures. Have you ever heard of such things being made of composites? That would be quite bizarre.

    Ground effect is the only decent bit of info you mention. For those who aren't aware, ground effect is the phenomenon by which a helicopter rests on a cushion of air bounded by the ground and the rotor disc. The area in which it is useful exists roughly at an altitude equal to the diameter of the rotor disc. It's essential for all low-powered flight, especially an emergency autorotation landing in something over than an autogyro.

    "Helicopter flying books?" I assume you mean rotary-wing aerodynamics books. I've read some; they're quite good.

    1. Re:you're a terrible writer by caswelmo · · Score: 2, Funny

      You've got to remember it's a college. Heck, give a guy enough beer and he/she will definitely pedal their butt off for a while a 3 meters. Heck, I was subjected to much worse than a 3-meter, gyro-slowed decent in college. I survived. Although many brian cells unfortunately did not.

    2. Re:you're a terrible writer by BostonPilot · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "ground effect... essential for... especially an emergency autorotation landing in something [other] than an autogyro".

      Not sure why you think this. During an autorotation in a helicopter or an autogyro, airflow is upward through the rotor. Even during the flare phase, airflow is upward, and thus ground effect does not apply. During the landing phase (hovering autorotation) the airflow is briefly downward, but I doubt that ground effect has much effect - this phase only lasts 2-5 seconds. I've never seen any studies, but I doubt you get much of a vortex going in that amount of time. Besides which - you usually have enough forward airspeed to be in translational lift, even at touchdown.

      Experience: helicopter CFI/CFII for the last 25 years...

      Check out my website sometime if you are interested in helicopters. www.copters.com.

      Paul

  25. I'll Wait. by the+pickle · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...for a motorised version.

    Whilst there's something undeniably cool about what basically amounts to an airborne bicycle, I'd settle for an airborne moped. Using a small (~1-2 bhp) moped engine would make for only a minor weight increase, and it would surely make for less sweat ;)

    I'm a certificated pilot (fixed-wing) who's flown helicopters (a Robinson R22 Beta) once, and that was so incredibly fun that I'd hop in an ultralight homebuilt chopper in a second. Just let me know where to buy the kit.

    p

  26. slashdotted by nanojath · · Score: 2, Funny

    maybe they need to have a contest where college kids build a webserver that can stand up to a slashdot link for more than 5 minutes...

    --

    It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries

  27. Re:Wow... by grolschie · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Well I just flew in from Atlanta, and boy my arms^H^H^H^Hlegs are tired" /insert drum fill here/

  28. RTFA already would you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    where does everyone come up with this 3 minute hover stuff?

    if you had read the rules of the contest, or the story from the paper (which i read IN the paper), you dorks would have seen its a 1 minute hover requirement, not 3.

    why bother even putting links to the info if no one is going to read it?

    oh, i forgot, i am new here, and this is slashdot. idiots.

  29. Re:Wings by eingram · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm not sure what the average weight of vaccums are, but looking at my hand-me-down, just one would add an easy 50 pounds.

  30. If the UBC engineers have any sense of history... by Hamster+Lover · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...the end result would like a cross between a beer bong and Volkswagen Bug with rotors.

    While a human powered helicopter is impressive, I have a feeling the UBC engineers won't feel accomplished until they hang the thing underneath some bridge.

  31. Age of pilot; age of contest by westendgirl · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Both the pilot and the contest are 24. I suspect UBC's genetic engineering program started on the engineer when the contest was first announced....It has nothing to do with the chopper design and everything to do with the pilot. ;-)

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    -- SYS 64738 --

  32. Technical Journal paper by scattol · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's a link to a SAMPE journal paper describing the project in details.