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On MMORPG Franchise Fundamentals

Thanks to MMORPGDot for its editorial discussing some of the most interesting franchises which are yet to be turned into MMO games. The author mentions: "Personally, I think a franchise game can be just as good as a game with an original world, if not better. It's all a question of what you do with the IP and if you make a fundamentally fun game out of what you've been given", before suggesting MMOs based on Star Trek ("The other great science fiction franchise is easily as deserving as Star Wars of it's own graphical massive game"), James Bond ("More of a realization that I'd like to play in a spy MMOG than anything else, I think a spy MMOG branded as a Bond game would get really good traction"), and Oz ("I think Oz would be an amazing vehicle for a MMOG centered on younger gamers.") Other suggestions?

111 comments

  1. Oz??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    A MMOG based on Oz, targetted at younger people? I hope that they leave out the shanking and anal sex.

    1. Re:Oz??? by pyrote · · Score: 1

      A MMOG based on Oz, targetted at younger people? I hope that they leave out the shanking and anal sex.

      Although it would be intresting to see how your charicter handles not dropping the soap.

      Hey mom I just got a job in OZ!!! smuggling cigarrettes into cyberspace!

      --
      THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!!!! eventually.
    2. Re:Oz??? by BobTheLawyer · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find they mean the Oz with wicked witches and emerald cities, rather than gang rape and suicides.

      Pity, really.

    3. Re:Oz??? by Arivia · · Score: 3, Funny

      Unless it's American McGee or Todd McFarlane's versions.

      --
      The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
    4. Re:Oz??? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Funny

      I love the way some people demonstrate that a lack of the brainpower to recognize a joke should be a capital offense.

      No, seriously.

      No, no, seriously.

      In any event, the other OZ would make a good MMORPG. I can't wait to get into all the Good Fairy costuming options.

      No. Wait. The Wicked Fairy costuming options. The garters, the fishnets, omg, it'll rule!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  2. Shadowrun by EvilIdler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The authow mentions Shadowrun, too. That's about the only one
    I'd be interested in. Star Trek could potentially be as messed up as SWG.
    I dunno about a spygame - doesn't Bond work alone most of the time?

    1. Re:Shadowrun by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Funny

      > Star Trek could potentially be as messed up as SWG.

      Or EQ or any other one out there. I can't wait: /kill SpaceStationRat

      Jhames Tibherihus Khirk 73 says, "Have at thee, kn4v3!"

      ** You attack a SpaceStationRat with your phaser

      You hit a SpaceStationRat for 2 points of stunning damage!

      ** A SpaceStationRat hits YOU for 7 points of damage!

      You hit a SpaceStationRat for 1 point of stunning damage!

      Jhames Tibherihus Khirk 73 says, "WTF"

      (clicks phaser adjustment on HUD)

      Majel Barret's Computer Voice says, "I'm sorry. Your Academy Level does not allow a phaser setting highter than '5 hits to stun a rat'. You need 3279 points of Ripped Shirt Experience to open up '2 hits to stun a rat, 5 hits to stun a Vulcan rat' level."

      Jhames Tibherihus Khirk 73 says, "F***"

      ** You hit a rat for 2 points of damage!

      Yes indeede doo! I can't wait!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Shadowrun by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      I play Star Wars Galaxies and a lot of folks who have left the game lamented the non-existence of a Shadowrun MMORPG. Shadowrun is all ready to go as a MMORPG from a plot/story backround, even taking place mostly in a single city, Seattle. Anyone who played the game can tell you that it had really good skill sets, and the Matrix system was awesomely well designed and would easily translate to a MMO. Also, although it has a heavy magic element, it takes place in a postmodern, urban society, with huge tech elements. There is a stunning lack of good Sci-Fi MMORPG's in development, and not everyone wants to hack and slash in their spare time. Some of us would rather use automatic weapons than two handed swords, chummer.

    3. Re:Shadowrun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been lead to believe that Anarchy Online is a pretty good Shadowrun MMORPG, without stepping on any copyright toes..

      I would be interested in seeing a Shadowrun game, though.. Interestingly, the licenses are probably held by Microsoft, along with the Battletech stuff (or perhaps Fanpro, but I'd guess MS). MS has recently cut back on its own MMORPG efforts...

    4. Re:Shadowrun by cluke · · Score: 1

      Hey, it wouldn't be rats, it would be TRIBBLES!

      (At least they would have a believable reason for infintely respawning.)

  3. Prison rape? by dmayle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oz as an MMO setting!? I'm not sure I could stomach the prison rape scenes necessary for levelling up... ;)

    1. Re:Prison rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The OZ series of books would actually be a cool setting

    2. Re:Prison rape? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hmm i didn't read the summary even :/

  4. Franchises MMORPGs by RogueyWon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Franchised MMORPGs are a risky venture. Get it right, and you can draw on an audience for your game which goes beyond the normal MMORPG-playing market, circumventing the argument that there are too many developers competing for too few customers. Get it wrong and you have an expensive mess on your hands which you then have to support for the next few years, while it damages the reputation of your franchise in the meantime.

    Success or failure depends on a large number of factors. Obviously, the biggest of these is how good the game mechanics are. A MMORPG lives or dies by these; players spend a lot of time in a MMORPG and a crummy interface, boring combat or a crippled economy will have them leaving in droves. However, the mechanics of a good MMORPG are a discussion for another comments thread. How a franchise can help a MMORPG succeed or fail is what's relevant here.

    To a large extent, I think the nature of the franchise is important. In particular, being tied too closely to a specific book or film is dangerous. I'll illustrate this by pointing out two recent franchised MMORPGs and how the franchises have hindered them.

    Final Fantasy XI (if you've read my posts elsewhere, you'll already know I love this game) has exactly the right kind of franchise. "Final Fantasy" is difficult to pin down; each of the games has its own characters, worlds, plot and game mechanics. The only commonalities between the games are a few core gameplay concepts, the names of a couple of characters and a few world-elements, such as airships and chocobos. Within those very, very few constraints, the developers were free to create whatever world they wanted. The result was a world which looked and felt like a Final Fantasy world, but which had been carefully balanced to work as a MMORPG. Sure, a lot of newbies wanted to be a summoner, because summons have been one of the cooler things about recent FF games, but there's no fundamental requirement of the game universe that Summoners be uber-characters (in fact, unless the player is willing to put a *lot* of time and effort into developing it, the Summoner's generally felt to be a weak class in most areas). For the most part, people accept this.

    By contrast, Star Wars Galaxies had a more unsuitable franchise and used it in a way that added further constraints. By setting the game during the time of the movies, when the Jedi were apparently nearly extinct and forced into hiding, the developers allowed the universe to constrain the game in a lot of ways. Let's face it, most of the players who tried out Galaxies wanted to be a Jedi. In the films, Jedi are uber-warriors, capable of all kinds of neat tricks. This already gave the devs a major problem, in that allowing a class like that, particularly in a game with PvP, is just not feasible in a MMORPG. So, the devs were forced to put Jedi in the world (upsetting those die-hard fans who dislike any deviation from the cannonical universe), make it extremely hard to become a Jedi (which upsets a lot of those who wanted to become a Jedi), and ensuring that the class wasn't actually all that powerful (upsetting those who put the time and effort into unlocking it). The result is pretty much the worst possible scenario. I think it would have been more sensible to set the game in an era more removed from the movies, as they did with KOTOR, to allow for a little more creative control, although it still wouldn't have solved some of the underlying problems.

    The Star Wars license also accentuated what was missing from the game when it released. Space combat is such a huge part of the Star Wars universe that it's understandable that people were so upset it wasn't there from release. Had the airships been missing from Final Fantasy XI when it was released, it wouldn't have been anything like such a big deal.

    Ultimately, Galaxies hasn't failed miserably and still has a respectable player-base. However, the damage that has been done to the franchise's reputation is not trivial and will be hard to undo.

    1. Re:Franchises MMORPGs by PedanticSpellingTrol · · Score: 2

      The damage can easily be undone by distributing a free 2 week demo.. which they have. I'm actually rather shocked by how fun the game is. Certainly I'm having more fun playing my wookie industrialist than I ever did in EQ.

    2. Re:Franchises MMORPGs by Dark+Lord+Seth · · Score: 1
      Final Fantasy XI (if you've read my posts elsewhere, you'll already know I love this game) has exactly the right kind of franchise. "Final Fantasy" is difficult to pin down; each of the games has its own characters, worlds, plot and game mechanics. The only commonalities between the games are a few core gameplay concepts, the names of a couple of characters and a few world-elements, such as airships and chocobos. Within those very, very few constraints, the developers were free to create whatever world they wanted. The result was a world which looked and felt like a Final Fantasy world, but which had been carefully balanced to work as a MMORPG. Sure, a lot of newbies wanted to be a summoner, because summons have been one of the cooler things about recent FF games, but there's no fundamental requirement of the game universe that Summoners be uber-characters (in fact, unless the player is willing to put a *lot* of time and effort into developing it, the Summoner's generally felt to be a weak class in most areas). For the most part, people accept this.

      I don't know wether one should think of FF XI as a franchised product. The entire Final Fantasy series is stuffed with differences between all the installments; it can hardly be considered a single defined franchise. Summoners as a special character-bound class, for example, haven't been around since FF4, only to be re-used in some of the more recent FFs. The only things that all Final Fantasy games share are the chocobos, those fuzzy white dipshits and the mandatory stolen airship. I mean, a game can be built on a franchise based on a single FF installment. For example, one could make a game where you have a purple haired woman flying around naked in 16 bit glory ( FF6 ), a game where you have to stab girls with unwieldy long swords ( FF7 ) or maybe even a game where you can lead your own band of socially-inept elite mercenaries ( FF8 ). But a single "Final Fantasy" franchise would be hard, simply because there are so few consistent FF things one can use.

      Of course, SquareEnix used some magic again and got away by using common elements from the latest batch of FFs, slapping it together under a FF (x+1) name and thus effectively breaking or ignoring all rules about franchising. Instead they delivered an unrelated product based largely on a franchised trademark.

    3. Re:Franchises MMORPGs by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Dancing as a career and being a Jedi are the only two cool new things about it. Crafting is not. Trading is not, not even as a career.

      And since I'll never unlock Jedi as I am not a college or high school student with 8+ hours per day of free time...and since I've been a dancer for 9 months, and it's starting to get boring...

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:Franchises MMORPGs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the crafting system is one of the most complex ive ever seen, and is certainly the most rewarding.

      it could take a few weeks to become a "master chef" but it could take months to discover what the best selling foods are, the certain situations where each food or drink "comes into its own", and not to mention the wealth of detail placed in the various berries and grains that inhabit the planets.

      for example, no one ever thought "parawan nutricake" would be a good or worthwhile food, as it just makes people run slightly faster for a longer time. the majority of cross country travel takes place on speeder bike, so what good would that do?

      well, as it turns out, when hunting jedi, its nearly impossibly to keep up with their force running abilities. by munching on parawan nutricake, you can maintain pace with them, and your window for scoring that critical "posture change down" or "knockdown" attack is dramatically lengthened.

      i started this game as a bounty hunter, and i played "tanks" in other mmorpgs, and i never thought surveying for "uber" fruit, placin harvesters, collecting things from the hopper, making schematics, puting the schmatic in the factory to make food, and running a restaurant (complete with decorating vendors and giving them little scripts to say when people walk inside) would be so fun.

    5. Re:Franchises MMORPGs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want a cops and robbers style MMORPG. That is, one wher eyou can be a good guy or a bad guy in a realistic real-world environment (as opposed to the future or some fantasy-realm).

      Specifically, I'm thinking of one where if you're the good guy, you have to prevent crime and solve crimes. If you're a bad guy, you commit horrendous crimes. Theft, robeery, burglary, rape, murder - even sadistic serial killings with your own twists. And certain factors in the game could drive you to be merely pathological or alternately totally insane and whacko and unable to control certain aspects of your own character and his decisions.

      I think it could be pretty entertaining and intense.

  5. The Forgotten Realms. by Arivia · · Score: 4, Insightful

    (Even though it's a D&D setting, a properly done FR MMORPG would be much different from D&D Online.)
    The Realms is the most detailed, largest fantasy setting there is. It has an insane variety to it-games ranging from Chondathan caravan runs to Tuigan hunting excursions to searching for Netherese artifacts in Anauroch would all be possible. It lends itself equally to instanced events and random encounters. It would already have a large promised user base. User guilds are encouraged by the setting, and already have many existing parallels. It comes with an established rules system already in place. In short, it has endless possiblities as an MMORPG-if done properly, by a group paying attention to the 2e design philosophy and hopefully with a designer watching them carefully. There is a problem, however:

    Due to the layout of Faerun, a team would either have to cover a huge area or create arbitrary barriers to movement.

    --
    The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
    1. Re:The Forgotten Realms. by Talrias · · Score: 0

      There's a persistent world for Neverwinter Nights which is trying to recreate the entire of the Forgotten Realms - it's called A Land Far Away (ALFA).

      Chris

      --
      aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
    2. Re:The Forgotten Realms. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am curious has any one done a Planescape based MMO? I think Sigil would make a pretty good place to explore etc.

  6. Disney mmorpg by fabio · · Score: 4, Informative

    Disney have entered the mmorpg market with their cartoony game aimed at children, its a pretty simple game

    http://www.toontown.com/

    (doesnt support other browsers than IE)

    --
    *resistance is futile, or fuzzy, i dunno*
  7. Site doesn't work with a forged User Agent.. by Arivia · · Score: 1

    coughs when checking for Flash. Then it told me I should let it run ActiveX code. In short, avoid if CommonSense>1.

    --
    The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
  8. Munchkin rape? by bretharder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even in the Oz they're refering to, The Wizard of Oz, according to a friend who read Frank Baum's books the Wicked Witch is green because her mother was raped by a munchkin.

    1. Re:Munchkin rape? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      So tiny + human = green? Hmmmm, that doesn't compute on my basic Gregor Mendel dominant/recessive 4-square diagram.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Munchkin rape? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1, Funny

      In fact, that whole story sounds suspect, like the guy who was turned into a newt and "got bettuh".

      (baby is born)

      "He's GREEN! You bitch! You were with a Munchkin!"

      "Uhh, honey, wait. He, uhhh, he, uhhh, Mini-me raped me. Yeah, that's the ticket!"

      Dumb Husband: Oh, ok.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  9. Say no to franchises by BlightThePower · · Score: 3, Interesting

    By and large the franchised single-player game stinks. And always has done, going back to ET on the Atari 2600 and the numerous 1980s 8-bit attempts from Ocean and the like.

    Franchises are worse news still for MMORPG.

    When we see a film or read a book, by and large we want to read about exceptional people who are (in scifi & fantasy anyway) usually heroic. A world of heroes just doesn't work. We can't ALL be off killing Darth Vader. We can't ALL be "the one" spoken of in prophesy. The scifi/fantasy genres don't lend themselves to being about the average man in the street (and lets face it, thats who we play every hour of every day in real life anyway).

    Some argue that existing in the universe of X is fun enough. But if we look at SWG as a testcase, many said they were happy to be a humble citizen (say, a crafter or small time hunter, what have you) but it hasn't worked out that way ultimately. Every other person (before I left) was a level-grinding Jedi wannabe. And from what I've seen since, every other person just about is now actually a Jedi. Good intentions came to nought as SOE pushed the Jedi class in order to ramp up interested in putative subscribers (never mind alienating their existing player base, but thats another rant).

    In the end the best MMORPGs will not be based on franchises. In a genre supposely all about imagination and open horizons we don't need or want a roadmap.

    --
    Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
    1. Re:Say no to franchises by elfkicker · · Score: 1
      A world of heroes just doesn't work. We can't ALL be off killing Darth Vader.

      This franchise would probably disagree with you.
    2. Re:Say no to franchises by will_die · · Score: 1

      However franchises can bring a huge amount of people to the game. Look at SWG if it did not have the Star wars name would anyone have even looked at?
      However they do need to just ignore the big name, famouse people from the franchise and focus on presenting a game based around the world, aka knight of the old reblic.
      If will be interesting if middle earth online does any better. They have decided that they will have the various game area set after the ring bearer and after major events have already happened. THen I guess they are going to go off thier own direction as need be.

    3. Re:Say no to franchises by BlightThePower · · Score: 1

      Well we'll never know is SWG would have gotten off the ground without the big name. Obviously it helps from a marketing point of view. I can't think of many other space MMORPGS, but I know the downfall of Neocron wasn't because it didn't have a big name license but because of game play and balance issues. EveOnline is still going (see FP story about it currently here on slashdot) but in my view it was inordinately time consuming and frankly a little dull (spend money to play with a graphical version of Excel...hmm).

      My personal feeling is that the long term survival of games is predicated on their design and gameplay. Certainly most MMORPG players I know havg moved around quite a bit when the limitations of their current game become painfully apparent. The reason everyone is looking forward to World of Warcraft is to do with the Warcraft name. But this is not because of the setting but because we know that the Warcraft 'label' (and Blizzard in general) tend to deliver good quality and well designed games.

      Frankly I don't care what licenses SOE get from this point, I would be very skeptical about touching anything they bring out (exception: Evangelion, but what are the chances of that. I think I'm safe.)

      --
      Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
  10. Bow down before... by krymsin01 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Pong MMORPG. Be the ball. Be the paddle. Be the line in the middle of the screen!

    --
    stuff
    1. Re:Bow down before... by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      I think that live action role playing Pong would be more fun than online Pong. Pong just isn't the same without the impact of the ball against your bar.

    2. Re:Bow down before... by servognome · · Score: 1

      I quit, the level grind to get my "center line" char up to 50 so I could be a complete line and not just a dotted one took too long. And the nasty lag made it too difficult for me to play the twitch based paddle. I'm also tired of all the 1337 players making a "ball" character just to take advantage of the bottom of screen warp bug. When are the devs going to wake up and realize there is an issue when 75% of players are playing "Ball" chars. Please fix the bug or nerf them!

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    3. Re:Bow down before... by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      Chess MMO. Nuff said.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
  11. The greatest of all... by zarthrag · · Score: 1

    In my opinion would be a translation of the 80s table top RPG "Rifts". I still GM a game myself, and it's quite fun. Some years back me and some friends begun drafting an engine that could support a universe of unlimited size (macro infinite), with a real sense of scale on individual planets, particually earth. We even came up with a way to effectively simulate other "dimensions" - populated by tons of unique and varied AI that reminds you of KOTOR or GTA at first glance. The idea was to space out players and their respective parties enough to make PvP ok, even likely. (BTW, this is an engine meant for hardcore players with organized parties.)

    We had grand ideas for playing out the "magic versus technology" theme, technowizards, men of arms, magic users, "Megadamage"...even psionics were planned for inclusion in the engine.

    We started developing some 3D models using the books, I still have my glitterboy "blueprint" where a friend and I managed to draft a sideview and create a nice textured 3D model.

    I failed to contact Palladium books however, so the project has since been scrapped. We've taken many of the themes and have since started a much different RPG that offers more creative control than we would have to accept from Palladium and their lawyers. If I were to ever be contacted by one of them, I'd surely strike up a dialog. But until then I'm going to sit back and work on the engine with my buddies. The alternate game won't be done (done = mmog ready) for some time anyway - after the MMO craze has subsided a bit. Until then I'll try my hand at and rpg or two, possibly an RTS also. I'd write an FPS, but god knows there are too many of those for PC also.

    --
    Why can't all fpga/microcontroller manufacturers just release free optimizing compilers???
  12. Xanth by offerk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think Xanth would make a great "magic MMORPG". Everyone could choose to have a unique magical talent that would be weak to begin with, but unlike the books, with experience you could "level up", and make your talent stronger or different. The game software could keep track of assigned talents and make sure no two are exactly the same (one of the base assumptions of Xanth).
    Imagine- fighting the Gap Dragon or dueling with another player who can create holes under your feet. Way cool :-)

    --
    I learn from all my mistakes, I intend to be a genius at the end of my life.
    1. Re:Xanth by Talrias · · Score: 0

      I know it's not Xanth, but Dragon Empires by Codemasters is set in a world created by Piers Anthony, the author of Xanth.

      Chris

      --
      aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
    2. Re:Xanth by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      As a huge fan of the Xanth series, I would love to play this game. However, I don't think anybody could pull it off successfully. Why?

      Simple. The talents would be too difficult to make unique. On top of that, part of the coolness of the series was to see how creatively people could use their talents (which often times relied on puns). Computers really aren't capable of handling that kind of reasoning yet. Another reason it would flop is that part of what created the world and drove it was the fact that people were stuck with the power they got, for better or worse. Magicians WERE more powerful than everybody else, and there really wasn't anything the others could do about it. That element just doesn't translate well into a computer game. I think it'd make a rockin pen and paper game though.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:Xanth by offerk · · Score: 1

      Dear Lord,
      (Sorry, couldn't resist :-))
      The talents would be too difficult to make unique
      I think I mentioned in my post that a game software (server) would make sure that talents are unique. Surly that would be fairly easy to program into the game?
      As for your other points, I agree it would not be easy to get people to be creative with their talents, but I think it is not impossible- not every MMORPG involves killing monsters and amassing gold. Some are about building communities, buildings, trade, etc. I think such a game, in the Xanth setting, would appeal to a lot of people. Even the puns :-)
      Your third point, about the Xanth world being one where people are stuck with the power they have, and changing that would make the game flop - all I can say to that is, I know changing this aspect would change the nature of "Xanth Online" vs. "Fantasy Xanth", but I do not agree that changing it would cause the game to flop. On the contrary.
      Not changing this would cause the game to flop. In a book, the writer can advance the plot. But in a game, where the players need to advance the game, if their characters do not advance (always stay the same), the players will have no motivation to advance the game, and it will stagnate. Just as when a book is transformed into a movie, the script is allowed, even expected, to be different than the book, so I think when a book is transformed into a game it should be expected to change to fit the new medium.
      I agree Xanth would make a rockin pen and paper game :-) I also think an enterprising, forward thinking game publisher with a fun look at games could make Xanth into a great game with unusual elements. Not every game has to be like Everquest to be successful - just look at City of Heroes for n example.

      --
      I learn from all my mistakes, I intend to be a genius at the end of my life.
    4. Re:Xanth by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      "I think I mentioned in my post that a game software (server) would make sure that talents are unique. Surly that would be fairly easy to program into the game?

      I'm sorry, but I don't know why you think the fact that a server will make it somehow magically easier to implement. Part of the problem is the insane difficulty of coding something that unique, and part of it is todays computers not being powerful enough to handle the detailed interaction with the world necessary to make the talents actually workable.

      I never said that changing the power levels over the course of the game WOULD make it flop, what I meant was that if you had if peoples powers leveled up, it would not be Xanth as we know it, and if they didn't, it wouldn't be playable.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  13. Snowcrash by lllama · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Deliver pizza, be a Kourier, practice your sword fighting, stake your claim in the Metaverse, buy your own Rat-thing, live in Mr Lee's Greater Hong Kong, work for the Feds, tool up with goo guns, ride your bike, design an avatar, be a rock star.

    Or declare yourself a nuclear state and hi-jack a submarine.

  14. Stargate by theCoder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was actually thinking about this the other day, and realized that Stargate would make a very interesting MMORPG. Lots of different worlds and races, and a lot of conflict to induce fights. The biggest disadvantage is that there aren't a lot of classes (fighter, medic, scientist, anything else?) and no real magic system (though varying levels of technology could be considered magic).

    --
    "Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs" -- author unknown
    1. Re:Stargate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, that's actually a pretty good idea. Problem: what about player housing? Maybe add colonies? A colonist class?

      Just don't make "ascended" an unlockable class :p

    2. Re:Stargate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jaffa Kree!

  15. Wonderland? by Draeven · · Score: 1

    What about Alice in Wonderland?

    Wouldn't it be interesting to have an MMORPG where there isn't a focus on leveling or combat, but to see just how weird the place can be?

  16. Not a franchise by BlightThePower · · Score: 1

    Thats why it works and really it illustrates my point.

    Imagine if it was Marvel Superheroes. Half a dozen spidermen and a twenty Captain Americas all of whom have killed their ninth Dr Doom of the day. Bit silly.

    --
    Plays violent online games as: Nerfherder76
    1. Re:Not a franchise by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Not to mention how silly it is either of those two could kill Dr. Doom...

      Witness:

      ** Spiderman3764, who can lift a bus, punches a rat for 3 points of damage.

      ** A rat bites YOU for 8 points of damage!

      ** Hulk4885, who throws a 60 ton tank a mile, punches a rat for 4 points of damage.

      ** Hulk enrages!

      ** Hulk punches a rat for 5 points of damage.

      etc.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Not a franchise by Zoshnell · · Score: 1

      /Dr Doom

      You fools! Dr. Doom cannot die! He is so mighty that you merely lull him into a (painful) sleep! /end Dr. Doom

      --
      "Do you suppose that's why God lives in the Heavens? Because he lives in fear of His creations?" - Steve Buscemi
  17. How bout one based on /. by foidulus · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can already hear it now, "damnit, my level 15 cowboy neal was slain by a level 13 Commander Taco, now I gotta get enough karma to revive him!"

    1. Re:How bout one based on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, many would complain about the "modding up" grind.

  18. Babylon 5 by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Personally, I think Babylon 5 would make for a far more compelling MMOG than Star Trek would. Star Trek's sense of conflict was always generated by large-scale disagreements which disturbed a utopian balance - in essence, there were a few major characters (Federation, Romulans, Cardassians...) duking it out. But B5 brought that sense of conflict down to a personal level, where individuals had conflict with one another because they lived in an imperfect society - one wrapped up in a spinning tin can, to boot.

    You could *have* space combat, if you wanted. But you wouldn't *need* space combat in B5 - there's enough potential for plot material right there on the station. Star Trek would be hard-pressed to do the same, since generally everybody on board any ship or space station was already on the same side.

  19. meh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about one based off of the Road Warrior movies.... search for gas, parts to fix up your car while trying to lose npc or pc gangs of thugs.

    But then again what the whole entertainment industry needs is something NEW not the same rehashed stuff we've been fed for the last 30 years. ....And a way to afford playing multiple MMOG's at once. Too many of those damn things.

    1. Re:meh... by glowimperial · · Score: 1

      There is at least one post apocalptic MMO in the early stages of development, but I remember reading that it probably wasn't gonna make it to market. And of course Interplay still is sitting on the online rights to Fallout, so that would be the license of choice for a post apocalptic RPG.

  20. Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    mmmmmmmmmm Shai-Hulud!!

    1. Re:Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I claim dibs on Muad'Dib!

  21. Harry Potter by Optical+Voodoo+Man · · Score: 1
    If you were really trying for the Oz crowd (scarecrows and ruby slippers not shankings and rapes), the Harry Potter machine might be a more profitable choice. Lots of possibilities, and a very large and loyal fan base.

    And if they did want the other Oz, they could always hang out in the Azkaban section of the game.

    1. Re:Harry Potter by Calmiche · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You know, when I first read this one, I didn't think much of it. Then, when I started thinking about it, it got better and better.

      I mean, you pretty much have the entire world to explore! Start off a new character and use Hogwarts as a base to learn basic spells and skills, as well as a healing location. Have a room with limited storage for you character and hundreds of low level quests based around the castle.

      You can integrate the sorting hat into character creation, specalize in whatever class you want at the school, etc..

      When you graduate, the entire world opens up. Solve magical quests, play professional quidditch, run a magic shop. Raise a family, interact with Muggles, etc. Heck, be a professor at the college and teach newbies.

      If you want to be evil, start in Slytherin so you aren't persecuted for being compleatly evil, but when you get a couple levels, you can leave the school and be an evil witch/wizard with a good foundation of spells and skills.

      You have an established but open mythology and a HUGE fanbase. It would be a pretty good game.

      (My girlfriend just told me "That would be an onling game I'd actually play", so it passes that test.)

      Calmiche

  22. Mechwarrior/Battletech? by glowimperial · · Score: 1

    I can't believe that Mechwarrior or Battletech isn't on this list. Engines alerady exist for online Mech Combat (instanced battles). All that is needed is to fill in the details of FASA's gritty "outside the mech" world. I would love to build a full Mercenary company and fight bad ass coordinated Mech Battles. The only problem I would see is lag, lag, lag.

    1. Re:Mechwarrior/Battletech? by Samthan · · Score: 1

      The Battletech/Mechwarrior universe is a great choice for a MMOG. I myself am amazed it has not been announced yet. I have talked with a number of MMO gamers, and almost all of them were drooling at the though of a game being based on that franchise. It has content that is just asking to be in a game of that scale. It is expandable to the limits of what the game developer can physical build. It can have both rpg elements, and fps combat. Mech combat including all elements of the BT universe. SOE's Planetside has already proved vehicle combat of the scale needed for a BT/MW based game is possible. The Franchise rights are owned by Microsoft, who would be more then capable to build the game. I guess this game should only be a matter of time.

    2. Re:Mechwarrior/Battletech? by Moonshadow · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Remember Battletech 2035? I played the beta for a few weeks, and it was a lot of fun. Not quite an MMORPG in the traditional sense, but it was an MMO game nonetheless.

      Pity it was canceled.

  23. Ender's Game by QEDog · · Score: 1
    Ender's Game battle school. The gang tension inside battle school. Minigames with their computers. Battles. As you progress, you gain command of other students and maybe even your own army. And then the obvious Bug-war expansion.

    --
    "There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
  24. Scared Straight... by Big+Sean+O · · Score: 1

    Young un's forced to play 1 hour/day will be so averse to prison that they'll be good IRL.

    Also can you imagine the avatar names: Chuckles Manson, Mr. Goatse...

    --
    My father is a blogger.
  25. At least I'm not the only one by zangdesign · · Score: 4, Funny

    who thought "gee, prison rape doesn't sound like a good MMORPG to me" before I remembered the Wizard and the Flying Monkey thing. Of course, I also thought Australia before I thought L. Frank Baum, so that shows you how long it's been since I read the books.

    Australia would make kind of a cool MMORPG for those of us who haven't been there. Being a 10th level croc-botherer ("OY! I'm gonna move this here croc from this bit'o mud to that bit'o mud") or a barbie-wrangler ("Ay! Lemme go get some shrimps, mate!") has it's attractions when you're only half-awake. Plus there's that bit about gravity reversal since they're on the bottom of the world.

    Man, I really need to start drinking coffee instead of gin when I wake up ...

    --
    To celebrate the occasion of my 1000th post, I will post no more forever on Slashdot. Goodbye.
    1. Re:At least I'm not the only one by kapella · · Score: 1

      Gin? I thought you'd just been playing too much KoL.

  26. The problem with MMOs isn't lack of good ideas... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...it's the players. Or rather, the general vacuum of etiquette, intelligence and propriety.

    That's the problem with pay-to-play... anyone who can pay, can play, regardless of their social deficiencies. For a game genre whose major component is social this is a quite an oversight... but the alternative - turning away money - is worse than having a festering, rotten community to every MMO publisher.

    I'm sick of the "Bob's Dance Club" MMOGs, regardless of what license-of-the-month they're bearing. Where are the "Studio 54" MMOGs who'll separate the wheat from the chaff to cultivate atmosphere at the possible expense of income?

  27. Pick one. by JoeD · · Score: 1

    There are LOTS of franchises out there that could be used.

    The Matrix (set before the movies). You could play a human or an AI.

    Zelazny's Amber books would be very cool, but hard to get right. Items that are powerful in one universe could be useless in another, etc.

    Lovecraft. "Hey, let's go raid R'Lyeh and gank Cthulhu!"

    Niven's Known Space. Lots of interesting races to play. As a subset, it could be limited to Ringworld.

    Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, but it'd have to be set before the books.

    The Thomas Covenant books.

    Brin's Uplift books. Instead of a single character, you could take charge of an entire species and try to increase your influence.

    Iain Banks' Culture universe. This could be very very cool.

    Gor. Adult only.

    Planet of the Apes. Play a human, or a damned dirty ape.

    1. Re:Pick one. by mo^ · · Score: 1

      Fitting right in there would also be Julian Mays Pliocene Epoch Earth...

      --
      bah!*@%!
    2. Re:Pick one. by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      Gor. Adult only.

      This one seems to be invading most of the social MMOGs. It's definitely been spotted in SecondLife and The Sims Online, and I suspect there's a Gorean group in There.

      Anyone know about Disney's Toontown?

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    3. Re:Pick one. by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      The Matrix (set before the movies). You could play a human or an AI.

      Uh, you know it's coming out this year, right?.

      And it's set after the movies, which doesn't matter, since the events of the films changed NOTHING... (Incidently, the game's timeframe was announced before Matrix Revolutions came out, which was a spoiler)

      Lovecraft. "Hey, let's go raid R'Lyeh and gank Cthulhu!"

      Better if you play as alien monsters... manifest temporary physical forms on earth to hunt mortals, seeking to devour either flesh or mere sanity. MMORPG players like to be powerful and immortal, and to be outnumbered by slow, weak opponents. So Lovecraft entities would be perfect player classes.

  28. Shadowrun pls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The one game universe that could make it so easily, it's also been the most neglected in terms of ANY type of gaming release since the genesis / snes days.

    WRU Shadowrun games?!

  29. Fallout/MadMax by SKorvus · · Score: 1

    To me, the obvious next MMO is based on either the Fallout series of single player RPGs, or the Mad Max movies: either way, a post apocalyptic desert-world where inhabitants must scrounge weapons and resources and survive in a harsh environment.

    Closely related would be a massively multiplayer version of Car Wars/AutoDuel, in which the scenario is the same, but the gameplay focuses on your vehicle. Sort of like Eve Online translated to the wasteland.

    Finally, Frank Herbert's Dune novels present a rich world of possibilities to draw on: players could be Fremen, Harkonen, or any of the other major houses, Bene Gesserit, Ixians, Bene Tleilax, or members of the Navigators Guild. Build a trading empire, or fight for control of the Spice. Preferably, the game creators would pretend that the Brian H./Kevin J. Anderson novels never existed. Ugh.

    --
    Live simply, that others may simply live. -Gandhi
    1. Re:Fallout/MadMax by thesuperav · · Score: 1
      a post apocalyptic desert-world
      Or alternatively something based on Waterworld.
    2. Re:Fallout/MadMax by john_prog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "massively multiplayer version of Car Wars/AutoDuel, in which the scenario is the same, but the gameplay focuses on your vehicle" You may want to check this out: http://www.autoassault.com/ It's still in development phase but it looks promising.

    3. Re:Fallout/MadMax by SKorvus · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking of... thanks for the link!

      --
      Live simply, that others may simply live. -Gandhi
  30. Ok, I'll bite: by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

    Why a 2e design philosophy?

    Granted, there was a lot more Realms material released under 2e, much of it good, but in terms of the rules themselves... ugh... why would you want to go back to that kind of retarded brokenness? Or am I just misunderstanding what you mean?

  31. The Man-Kzin wars by stimpy · · Score: 1

    Or War World. Or the Sopranos. *heh* Or Shannara. World of Tiers. Well World. Retief. There's tons of good worlds to exploit.

    Brian

  32. Problems by Hamled · · Score: 1

    There are a couple of problems with certain types of franchises. Several have been mentioned previously, but I noticed that the James Bond MMOG franchise idea wasn't brought up much. Creating an MMOG based on a franchise that is character based (which is true to the extreme in the case of James Bond), is a very bad game design decision. With an MMOG, you have to consider the number of players involved. A James Bond MMOG simply wouldn't work because you can't have 10,000 James Bonds. And someone who's playing a James Bond game, because they're a fan of James Bond, is not going to want to play Joe Bond, James' unknown-spy brother. If you don't allow people to play James Bond, a massive amount of the audience will leave, or perhaps never even pick up the game. If you let everyone be James Bond, no one will feel like an individual. One must also factor in the content of that franchise. James Bond style gameplay really won't benefit from having other players around. Obviously you wouldn't want to be doing a mission and have 20 other James Bonds already in there doing that mission. Instead the game would use Instancing to create a new mission context for every player, but then you're just going to spend 99% of your time in a mission alone. Why not have a single player game, where you possibly pay to download new content once in a while? Concerning items and economy, James Bond doesn't normally buy his own items for the missions, so I'm not entirely sure if there would be any benefit to having an economy where you could trade with other players. Lastly, MMOGs based on James Bond and Oz are simply too niche, in my view, to work out. There just won't be enough people willing to pay 10 or 15 dollars a month to play James Bond, or to have thier children play around in the world of Oz once or twice a month.

  33. Actually, that would be sort of cool... by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing a Rifts game period.

    I always thought the world and story to Rifts was cool. However, although I tried playing in a few different campaigns of it, I ultimately decided I couldn't stand it -- the game mechanics in general and the combat in specific just bogged down WAY too slow for me. It wasn't unusual for a decent sized combat to suck up an entire night by itself.

    A computer, on the other hand, could crunch those numbers and make all of those parry/dodge/roll/etc. rolls instantly, taking out the part of the game that I hated and leaving most of what I thought was cool.

    1. Re:Actually, that would be sort of cool... by servognome · · Score: 1

      I agree, the depth of the Rifts universe was awesome. The universe well beautifully detailed in the books, but like you said, the combat mechanics were slow. Unlike D&D where you could get somewhere in a couple hours, Rifts always bogged down in combat that would get stretched over a few days.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
  34. This is not redundant. by BTS_WRKNG · · Score: 1

    I recommend Oz.

  35. There are tonnes of great MMO ideas. by Inoshiro · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Harry Potter's got to be the most obvious one, overlooked by EA in their lust for shitty game design.

    Seriously, with the books and movies being so good, why would you want to rehash the action again in a game? Wouldn't it be more fun to make your own character's story in the HP universe? I'd love to see a virtual hogwarts, filled with thousands of other subscribers who are enjoying making their own way in the magical world. They could have their own groups and alliances, explore different sections of the grounds (perhaps using something like instancing so that more people can go in the same areas without choking them ;)), learn magical powers, etc. Carving one's own story is always more interesting than rehashing an oft-retold one.

    Whenever a book comes out, EA wouldn't have to wai for the movie to come out, too. They could just add the characters and areas as a small expansion. There's plenty of source material already, and I know a lot of people (such as people who also frequent HOL) would love to be involved in that kind of fun game.

    I hope someone ballsy enough to do this gets the licence at some point. It's so great an idea for an MMO :)

    --
    --
    Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
  36. *waves talisman of 2e warding* by Arivia · · Score: 1

    I don't mean the rules at all. Rather, I was referring to the switch of the content in Realms sourcebooks(amongst other problems due to the almost-script k1dd13 group WotC is currently trying to appeal to) from usable content detailing the Realms to rules that lazy DMs can rip off(as they think their market share is people wanting to rip the Realms off for their homebrewed groups). In short, compare the 3e version of Lords of Darkness and Cloak and Dagger-which one's a better product? I could write an essay about this, but there's no point here.

    --
    The role of the writer is not to say what we can all say, but what we are unable to say. -Anais Nin
  37. Harry Potter, Battletech, etc. by SirBruce · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Harry Potter Online has been worked on by EA for years. The first one was cancelled at the same time they cancelled UO2 (OWO:O) and Privateer Online. I've heard the second attempt was cancelled, too. The current version under development is called "Hogwarts Online" which gives you an idea of where they are headed with it. Battletech 3025 was also developed previously by EA, and cancelled. The Matrix Online is coming out this fall. There are several other IP franchises that are worth considering: Traveller, Stargate, Battlestar Galactica, Mad Max, Terminator, etc. Bruce

  38. MS Email for Shadowrun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    shadowru@microsoft.com - is where to send the mail asking for something to come of all this!

  39. Oz for younger gamers? by lune+tns · · Score: 1

    Do we really need more MMOGs targeted for younger demographics?

    We've already seen how an MMOG can ruin the lives of fully-grown, critically-thinking adults. Setting up an addictive game targeted to those who haven't yet developed the responsibility structure and critical thinking skills necessary to protect themselves from addiction can't be a good idea.

  40. real life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think the best mmorpg would be based on real life.
    No weird ass magic, no weird ass weapons.

    set in some realistic looking city.
    just you, weapons that really exist and your wits, and societies lack of morals,

    Wanna be a crime boss. go for it.
    Wanna fight crime. go for it.
    Wanna be a corporate bigwig go for it.
    there would be lots more.
    psycho killer, grifter, medical, shop keeper, maufacture of needed items.

  41. Real Life has been done. by SKorvus · · Score: 3, Funny

    Real Life was released ages ago.

    Check out GameSpot's review of the RealLife(TM) MMORPG.

    --
    Live simply, that others may simply live. -Gandhi
    1. Re:Real Life has been done. by cluke · · Score: 1

      Yeah, well I've been playing that for ages, and I really hate the grind.
      Also, if I die, there is no respawn!

  42. Stargate fits current MMORG tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stargate would be interesting, and the instancing issues would work with the gate/dialing genre. New worlds are easily added also, withough needing to add backstory or continuity; you really only need the primary backstory.

  43. Monster of All Franchises by superpixel2000 · · Score: 1

    People. Longest running sci-fi series EVER! Dr. Who. While you might not get to be a Time Lord, you could be a Dalek (Nations estate willing), Cyberman, Auton, hell, there's too many to consider here... But yeah, being a Time Lord would kick a$$.

    BBC? You listening?

    How about Hitchhiker's Guide?

    There's a gazillion comic book franchises... But those are truly character-driven and yes, I know it's being done already...

    Seems like all the old school RPG's would be ripe as well. I've always wondered why Steve Jackson doesn't get into it. Illuminati would be scads of fun, and GURPS would be great as a framework for creating your own MMORPG.

    And what about Ghostbusters? Animal House?

    Since some people would like to filter wheat from chaff (in the players), how about "Flatland"? Heck, you could even play it on a cell phone!

    --
    did you win a free ipod? build a case for it here
  44. Some thoughts by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    The reason the Bond type games won't work is because everybody wants to be a star, and that just doesn't work. Period. Level grinding to become one of the few top people sucks, plain and simple.

    Personally, if I had to pick a franchise, it might be the World of Darkness. PLENTY of customization options, and whole different realms of gameplay as often times vampires, werewolves, mages, etc don't interact with each other as much as they interact with members within their "game". The potential for that world is huge, and already translates somewhat well into videogame form.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    1. Re:Some thoughts by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1
      whole different realms of gameplay as often times vampires, werewolves, mages,

      The traditional powers/vulnerabilities of vampires and werewolves would create a specific game design challenge: Just what would the day/night cycle be?

      Vampires shouldn't be able to go outside in daylight, but an MMORPG won't survive if 50% of the time its subscribers can't log in and walk around.

      Possible solutions:
      1. Make vampires immune to sunlight. But this removes dark, gothy style.
      2. Eternal darkness. For some magic reason, it's always night. A little goofy, but better than vampires strolling the beach
      3. Map design. Build the world so that it's all city, and convenient sewer-openings exist on every other block.
      4. Parasols, ponchos, and SPF500 potions.

      Generally, #3 would be the best choice. If the day-night period is 5-15 minutes long, then it can produce complex tactical effects: a monster which the hunts the vampire PCs in daytime could become an easy victim at night.
  45. 78 comments, and they miss the obvious answer. by Incoherent07 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Think about it. What current, wildly popular game series has a huge young fanbase, and is based on the idea of striking out on your own to seek fame, fortune, and power?

    Pokemon. You know... "I want to be the very best, like no one ever was"?

    Actually, the Pokemon series is fairly deep, and was fairly innovative the first time around. Given that the gameplay already revolves around PvM (fighting and capturing wild Pokemon) and the occasional PvP (fighting other trainers), it'd be way too easy. Plus... I for one would actually play a 3D Pokemon MMORPG.

    --
    This is my sig. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
  46. I'll wait for the expansion... by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    that lets you play as the score board.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  47. look at the MUDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just look at what MUDs and MUSHes are most popular:

    Dragonball Z
    LotR
    Discworld
    Pokemon
    Harry Potter

  48. I'm of two minds on this. by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

    To a certain extent, I'm inclined to agree with you. I go back to the release of the original 1st edition boxed set with the campaign, and there was a lot of great FR stuff put out in 2nd edition.

    There was a lot of bad or weak stuff put out in that era, too, though. And the concept of tacking rules material onto story material to sell the latter certainly didn't start in 3e, though it seems to have become more the rule. In 2e, it was things like new spells, specialty priest types, kits, and magic items. In 3e, it's spells, domains, prestige classes, feats, and magic items. God knows I knew enough 2e powergamers who would only buy the supplements that included new rules information -- those people really haven't gone away.

    What's different, if anything, is that TSR was sold to WotC and in turn to Hasbro. I gather that Hasbro bought WotC because of the likes of the Pokemon card game and couldn't give a rat's ass about D&D. To be able to keep putting out Realms stuff with a corporate parent like that, I imagine WotC needs to be able to show a certain profit margin on it, and the books without rules material don't do it. Silver Marches was heavy on background and light on rules, and I'm told it sold abysmally. That was probably the death knell for a book of that type.

    Aside: What I miss the most is the publishing of Realms adventures. As far as I know City of the Spider Queen is the only they've put out for FR in 3e, and I can't help but think of it as a poor man's Night Below.

    I don't think rules information in the books is a purely bad thing. In an awful lot of the Realms campaigns I've played in over the years, the DM had a great grasp of the Realms and the imagination to take it further story-wise, but fell down badly whenever they needed extend or modify the rules -- in the sense that midway through the campaign it becomes apparent that they've inadvertantly overpowered one or more of the PCs in a way not easily correctable. These are people I wouldn't consider bad DMs, but probably people that could use help on the rules end. It's not a terrible thing that there are books that provide them assistance on that end as well as assistance to DMs who need help with story ideas.

    All that said, I think the 3e FRCS is a pretty great book, and I'm getting an enormous amount of use out of Unapproachable East for the campaign I'm running right now. Granted, I still supplement it with 2e material about the region as necessary, but it's a pretty good book.

  49. Another way... by Viking+Coder · · Score: 1

    anyone who can pay, can play, regardless of their social deficiencies

    I have another way to describe your sentiment:

    The problem with online games is that you, and everybody else online, are a jerk.

    I can complain about how bad everyone online is, but then I realize that honestly, I'm doing the same stuff. I slowly started to realize that it's the games, it's not just me. The games require just enough twitch to make socializing difficult. You have to type the key to swing your axe at the spider at the same time that you're trying to type "Help! A spider is attacking me!" So, everyone macros the things that they need most often like "Help!" and "Incoming!" and "Add!" and "RUN!" Well a single-player game could easily emulate that kind of behavior.

    I keep thinking that the games need to have a queue for commands, much like The Sims. I can tell the program, "attack, parry, dodge, thrust, heal self," and then I can type "Aaah! I'm getting attacked over here!"

    I guess fundamentally, roleplaying, graphics, and typing don't mix very well.

    --
    Education is the silver bullet.
    1. Re:Another way... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the problem of rotten community can be solved really easily: eliminate pseudo-anonymity.

      People only act like jerks in online games because there aren't any of the consequences associated with that behavior irl.

      (Okay, so that's ironic coming from an AC, but let's not drop context.)

    2. Re:Another way... by Minna+Kirai · · Score: 1

      The games require just enough twitch to make socializing difficult.

      On the other hand, are you really supposed to be socializing, or playing a game? Some online games which don't require constant button-pushing evolve to be "a chatroom with monsters", where players discuss completely irrelevant topics as they play. Anyone who chats too much about the game is branded a newbie (because if you think you need to discuss something, it demonstrates that you haven't played it enough to already know what everyone needs to do)

      I keep thinking that the games need to have a queue for commands, much like The Sims. I can tell the program, "attack, parry, dodge, thrust, heal self,"

      You might like queueing, but the game developers intentionally disallow it. Some of them will ban you for using 3rd-party software allowing macroing of commands.

      You see, queueing commands reveals to the player how uninvolving the game actually is. Forcing you to click on the monster again for each new axe-swing keeps your attention on the game, creating the impression of "playing". Allowing the character to go on autopilot as you sit back and type chat commands would also give him the freedom to get a sandwich or read slashdot... or even find something else more fun to do. The profit-minded game company can't risk you slipping away if the losen the chains.

      Diablo is a good example of this.

    3. Re:Another way... by Viking+Coder · · Score: 1

      No, you make an interesting point. The problem is that simply being on the internet gives people that illusion of anonymity. Meaning, even if I had to use my real name in a game - who the hell knows me? Nobody. So - I can kind of do what I want to, because even though my avatar's T-shirt says my name, I'm still just a random face in the crowd...

      Now, if you played a game with your peers, maybe that would be different...

      --
      Education is the silver bullet.
    4. Re:Another way... by Viking+Coder · · Score: 1

      Well, really, online games have me doing my best performance of attack, while the monster does their best performance of attack. I will switch tactics only if something goes radically off script, like if I've lost too many hit-points, or if a friend starts running away, or if another monster starts hitting me with a wet noodle. But those events are fairly rare - they happen maybe 1 in 10 - more likely 1 in 30 combats, in most of the games I've played. That's because non-suicidal players are very careful to control the fighting environment as much as possible, to arrange for success. They attack monsters that they can pull back to a safer fighting position, and are cautious and aware of randomly aggressive monsters in the area, and typically games are designed to not be too hard. (Hard meaning, you have a 90% chance of surviving a good experience-awarding combat, not a 50% chance.)

      So, my point is that, if I'm essentially just playing typing tutor, it sucks that I can't just type a little faster to queue up my never-changing performance, so that I can then socialize when things are changing. Like when we go off script, because I've lost too many hitpoints, someone runs away, or another monster starts hitting me with a loaf of bread. Get it?

      So, I guess what I'm really saying is that I wish that MMO games were "interesting" enough that combat can't be totally scripted, but designed such that socializing about those dramatic events wasn't either impossible or totally boring. {Hit 4 for "Help", Hit 5 for "Run", etc.)

      'Course, I'm just thinking out-loud here.

      --
      Education is the silver bullet.
  50. Zelazny: not Amber but Lord of Light by bbingham · · Score: 1

    Arguably his best work, Lord of Light postulates human refugees who fled from a devasted Earth to land on a planet dominated by beings who gave up their physical forms to become energy, based on "Universal Fire". Once the humans land, they realize they want bodies - human bodies.

    Using high-tech cloning and other methods, the colonists begin to develop strange talents and powers (Attributes and Aspects) based on the deep mythological patterns of their past plus cold-blooded calculation. They battle against the demons to carve a place for themselves. The mightiest minds become avatars of the ancient Hindu deities.

    I can't think of a setting with more potential for an MMPORG than Lord of Light. It already has most of the cliches built right in: reincarnation, magic and technology, random combat with an infinite supply of enemies, leveling to godhood, PvP, and all of human mythology to choose from. Zelanzy focused on the Hindu ship, but I think he hints there were others - it's a big planet.

  51. Three Obvious Words by Golias · · Score: 1

    Leisure Suit Larry

    'Nuff said.

    --

    Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  52. No, but how about Jack of Shadows by Colazar · · Score: 1
    Zelazny is my favorite author. Lord of Light is my favorite novel of his. (Though I maintain that his natural length is novella.) But I'd have to say it's wrong for a MMORPG.

    Part of the thing with the Attributes/Aspects is that they were so rare. Maybe if you set it earlier in the timeline, when there were fewer people and so more of them had powers, but it still seems clumsy to me. Plus, I don't think you could safely run a MMORPG where the subject matter was so closely tied to real-world religion. (Particularly given how badly Christianity fared in that world.) Can't you just imagine the hate tells?

    Now that you mention it though, I think Lord of Light would make a really good turn-based strategy game--kind of a cross between Alpha Centauri and Dominions.

    I think a better Zelazny world would be the one in Jack of Shadows. It's got a generic-ish fantasy setup which allows for a wide variety of characters and powers, but with a cool twist (the light side/dark side split), reincarnation (with a set respawn point, even), and you could even probably do something cool with the required service you have to do on the satellites. And I think its Zelazny's 2nd most popular book, after the Amber stuff, so it's got more of a fanbase. Much better for a MMORPG, I would think.

    I also think the Dilvish the Damned/Changing Land world would work perfectly well, but to be honest, I don't remember anything that would particularly distinguish it from a generic world.

    --
    He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
  53. Brust's Dragaera by Colazar · · Score: 1
    Dragaera would make a great MMORPG setting. You've got a couple of different time periods they could choose from to set it in. Two different magic systems. The different Houses for factions, all of which already have built in ranking systems (which could be different for different houses if they wished.

    Only problem I can see is that you'd end up with too many Jhereg, Dragons, and Easterners, and not nearly enough Teckla, but that's going to be a problem with any world. Not sure how popular Brust is still, though--ten years ago this would have been a no-brainer.

    --
    He decided to just watch the government, and kind of scale it down to size, and run his life that way. --Laurie Anderson
    1. Re:Brust's Dragaera by stimpy · · Score: 1

      3 types of magic. Don't forget Pre-Empire sorcery. I just finished reading Phoenix again yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind.

      Brian

  54. Pokemon. by ChronoZ · · Score: 1

    Seriously. I remember some people on a gaming forum talking about what it would be like if there were a Pokemon MMORPG. It definitely has the potential for being one at least..

  55. Fast And Furious or NFS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Personally i distest the entire street racing idea myself, but with games like NFS: Underground and the like i really think a MMO that allowed 16 year old white skinny losers to put decals on civic's and drive them around would go over incredibily well. Make a giant virtual city and allow them to drive around and pretend to speed. Obviously it would need more work then just added decals to civic's but i think it was designed well it could work.

  56. Tabletop RPGs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...are probably the best candidates for transition to MMOs. But for some reason, developers avoid them like the plague.

    Anyone else find it bizarre that MMO development was entirely separate from tabletop development until WotC started planning for Ebberon?