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Linux Desktop Guide
codergeek42 writes "The International Open-Source Network has created a desktop manual aimed at end-users with little or no prior knowledge of PCs. This manual goes through using The Fedora Project to do things from file-management to using the internet (as in browsing the WWW and using email), how to use the OpenOffice.org office suite, and even a basic intro to using the shell. This is definitely a step in the right direction for GNU/Linux, and the Free Software and Open-Source Software movements. And the cool part is that the entire thing is under an attributions-required OSI-approved Creative Common license, and is available in .sxw (OpenOffice.org Writer) or PDF formats."
For a first-time user?
Hey, this is great, you've got your first Linux system. Whoops! Time's up. If you want security updates, it's time to wipe and reinstall!
the entire thing is [...] available in .sxw (OpenOffice.org Writer) or PDF formats.
That's one way of ensuring the user has broadband and a large enough hard drive...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Wouldn't something like Mandrake or SuSe be better for beginners?
I think this is a step in the right direction. Now i'm not for dumbing down linux, but I think there should be a user-friendly (ouch) option on some of the major distrobustions so that people who know little about and will not learn about computer systems will use linux. If more common people use linux than more governments and institutions will, meaning more donations for projects, more press, and better defence against the Microsofts and SCOs out there.
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
Not bit torrent, but it'll have to do...
Google Cache
-jim
...please invest in a link checker. You can't be trusted to get them right.
http://www.openoffce.org/
http://www.openoffice.org/
I wonder if manual/guide is the solution to the 'problems' in desktop territory.
Will grandma get such guide and follow through step by step command lines to achieve something?
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
This kind of stuff is a great step in the right direction, but lots of people in the target demographic would still prefer a dead-tree version. I'd really like to see a couple of those big, glossy, step-by-step picture books put out for Linux. There's a bunch for Win/Mac already, so I'm sure it'll just be a matter of time.
Been using Windows XP Home for 3 years, and never looked back.
Not enough time to look back between security updates, and A/V, anti-spyware and personal firewall software installations I guess...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Does Linux have top home marketshare? No.
Does Linux have top education marketshare? No.
So is the chance that people's very first system will be Linux high? No.
Does this make this whole thing pointless? Yes.
What do stores sell a new user if they don't know what they want? Windows. Therefore they will learn Windows. The only way they'll find out about this report is if they go online and find it, and then if they're not a techy user, they're not going to want to install something like an OS for themselves. This is a pointless exercise to make the open-source community hope for an influx of new users, when the fact is while stores still sell Windows machines, while mummy and daddy still have a Windows machine in the living room, while little Johnny's school uses Windows machines... Microsoft's monopoly is self-sustaining.
It doesn't matter how many guides you put out for Linux aimed at the 'new user', there are no users who've never used a computer before who are likely to run Linux - they're going to run what the store tells them to run, or what the computers in their house already run - Windows. The monopoly self-sustains. Unless all us nerds train our kids from birth to use *nix, and they all train their kids, etc, etc, etc, only Microsoft can destroy their own monopoly. Our only hope is that a catastrophic worm makes it impossible to ever use Windows, as other than that, reguardless of how many 'Linux for Total Newbies' PDFs people put out, those 'total newbies' will be reading it from a Windows machine, and the vast majority of them will be too scared or too stubborn to switch.
This will probably get modded troll, but that's the way it is - this is the wrong approach to be taking, and for all the people us few thousand nerds convert (very few), there's going to be a few thousand more kids growing up using mummy and daddy's Windows machine, perpetuating Microsoft's mindshare. We need to find a way to deal with it, and this is not it.
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
This is an admirable effort, however why Fedora for a beginner's distro? The problem I see is that Fedora is just getting it's feet wet and entire reinstalls are needed to update from core 1 -> 2. This harks back to my days with Red Hat 5 and Mdk 6. Without trying to start a flamewar, I really think a Debian based system with Synaptic setup for updating is the best solution. Lastly, I don't know if a beginner's guide should include the commandline, that will likely scare some off. Let them get completely comfy in the GUI, then let them start exploring off the path.
Still, efforts like this NEED to be undertaken, if it's one thing OSS projects often lack is documentation.
CV*)($#B
free ipod and free gmail!
And the cool part is that the entire thing is under an attributions-required OSI-approved Creative Common license, and is available in .sxw (OpenOffice.org Writer) or PDF formats.
.sxw or a PDF one would be very useful for someone new to PCs - they need some basic knowledge to even view it, and it would get incredibly confusing to try to use the computer and read instructions off it at the same time. The alternative is to get the manual printed by someone you know who already knows how to use a PC and has a lot of paper and ink to waste and... If you were learning a computer for the first time, what would be more convenient, this or a reasonably cheap, easy to find Dummies guide to PCs (which would refer to Windows)?
Neither a
I know we're into OSS evangelism here, but honestly, for someone new to PCs, it would be much better to choose the platform most common and hence easiest to find advice and help for, and that's Windows. As I've seen with my grandparents, learning PCs for the first time is hard enough as it is without the extra trouble of pursuing a minority desktop OS.
Would the average home user even be capable of knowing if his/her Linux box had been "0wned" ?
Mandrake and Suse would be better for ANY desktop user, and certainly better for the IOSN to promote since both distributions have long-term commitments to the desktop.
Step 1: Buy a Mac.
Step 2: Put Mac on desk; power up.
Step 3: There is no step 3!
While I commend them on their efforts, I don't think very many people are going to find this useful.
I would have chosen Mandrake over Fedora because Fedora is meant to be Red Hat's bleeding edge test bed. Mandrake is easy to set up and as long as don't care to tweak around with it much, it'll do you fine.
Computer use is getting so complex and most of us here don't even realize it. To explain the simplest tasks to someone who knows nothing about computers is not easy and I think it needs to be taught rather than dictated to in a book. And a book at that, a pdf is only useful if someone is going to print it out in lieu of teaching someone.
Nobody learns to drive a car by reading a manual, and no one should be expected to learn a computer by manual either.
After perusing it, I gave this one to my sisters and mother. It covers all the same things, but in print, with Figures:
Teach Yourself Red Hat Linux Fedora
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
Happy mandrake 10 user here. It just makes my life easier. Finally without a windows partition!!
I've been using mandrake for 2 years now... before that I was a windows fanboy.
Anyways... linux has been great. I am able to do everything I need to for my job in linux (CXOffice has been wonderful).
...Fedora is designed to be a more or less bleeding edge perpetual beta, even though they call it a release. Sorta like moz in a way. Call it a stable~beta, freebie community/developer/enthusiast edition. If you want "more" stable and more and longer support, you go to the redhat pay per view version, or stick to legacy Rh 7-9 as long as that lasts.
With that said I like fedora, it works fine,seems perfectly stable to me with only a few minor hiccups, no showe stoppers, and twice a year to plop a few Cds in isn't hard, and updating even on my old coal burner system and rural slow dialup is not hard either.
Basically, you can't have it both ways at the same time. If you want new and improved, well, the developers ain't lazy and come out with new and improved all the time, so there ya go. If you want to run a distro for a long time, then just run a distro for a long time. If it's gotta-haveit security updates, you might have to compile it in. thems the breaks. You can't have a 5 ton truck that gets 50 MPG, just ain't happening, some times ya got to make some compromises. I bet there's folks here still running RH6 probably, and similar vintage older various distros/OSes. Heck, I run new linux but I still crank up some old macs running 7.x and 8.x sometimes, and still got a laptop with win 95 on it that I (and who knows who else, heh) fool with occassionaly just for sport.
Plus, if it fails, it's the writer's time that is wasted, not yours.
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
Some of you guys may not suggest Fedora for a linux beginner, but wait, I have seen quite a few users hop on to linux, completely abandoning Windows right with Fedora Core 1, and they are actuallly happy with it!
Installing applications are not that hard unlike the earlier days. I recommend rpm.pbone.net to find your applications packaging for Fedora, I have been 99.99% successfull! And with the brand new Yum, staying upto date is always a breeze.
I also recommend adding Dag Wieers repository in your yum configuration and this particular one releases very useful applications/updates. Needless to stay, once you load fancy themes and eye-candy like gDesklets you really can grab the eyes of people around you while giving you a pleasurable user experience.
This is my sig. There are thousands more, but this one is mine.
I think this is a step in the right direction, but I think it would be even better if there is a distrobution aimed specifically at home linux users, with strong community support.
I have been using linux for about 5 years, and I have used most of the major distros for a while (Slackware, Red Hat, Debian, Mandrake, Gentoo). One of the things I find lacking is a friendly support group that doesn't just tell you to "RTFM, you n00b!".
I think Gentoo is definitely heading in the right direction, so far the gentoo folks have been more than helpful, and *very* friendly too, which is rare in my experience. But Gentoo is still too much a tech-savvy distro, if we could have something that's like Mandrake or Lindows, with a friendly cummunity, we may have something there.
I have been trying to convince some of my friends to switch over to Linux, the gamer types always complain about not being able to play their favorite games. I also have some people at work who are trying to switch over to Linux at home. They all have a common problem: when they are stuck, they don't know who/where to ask. Some of them got very discouraged by the responses they get on some of the forums, and went straight back to Windows. I spoke to some of these people and offered to help them, but one of them told me "you Linux users are a$$holes! I am stickign with Windows."
Again, I applaude those who have put great effort into this user guide, and for Linux to become a big desktop player, I think all of us need to be patient with the new-comers and do a little more hand-holding.
just my 2 cents.
Nice troll - these silly fudsters would sound almost believable to someone who doesn't know better...
While I use suse, not fedora, I have installed fedora on several computers, and had no trouble whatsoever with the install or setup.
The nvidia issue is like a newbie 101 type question, - the fudster tripped up a few times, one of them was in the nvidia driver install. No, you don't recompile the kernel. You simply install the nvidia driver (without the GUI running), edit 1 line in the X config file, and restart X. Actually, this is all clearly spelled out in the readme at nvidia.com.
With suse, the nvidia driver is even easier. You just check the box in yast that says "install nvidia drivers". that's it.
Well, I could point out his other howlers, but my time is worth something too.
I did mention that that is exactly what I did, didn't I? I'll give more detail. I edited the one line in the X config file, that didn't work. I added a few different things from their installation tutorial. That didn't work. I tried simply changing it through X itself, that didn't work.
I'm sorry I insulted Linux, sir, I take it back.
Hrg, all you need is a decent 3rd party software firewall, a different browser to ie and a little common sense to completly avoid all spyware, viruses etc. What's that, like 6 megs of downloads? Admittedly you'll have to get the firewall from another already protected computer, but it's really not that hard to keep a windows box secure.
This is a joke. I am joking. Joke joke joke.
how is Linux supposed to be usable for someone new to Linux such as myself
when your new 9800 PRO isn't supported by X?
I'd like to add something with a bit less of a rant to it, since that's basically what my original post was.
What a distro is going to have to do to get the desktop user:
First, get every available driver they can get their hands on and test to make sure it all works out of box. This may mean living with the fact there is something inside that isn't "free", and then working out any licensing issues (even if it means shelling out some cash or doing some fancy legal work).
On top of that, it needs to crash "nicer". Any time I reboot and have a problem coming back up with a linux computer, if I don't mash on the I key and make sure it doesn't run whatever it is causing the problem, it usually just halts there without letting me proceed further. And when I do bypass it? Good luck getting a GUI. I've got to solve my problem manually. No common desktop user wants to deal with this. That means it will require an -easily accessible- "safe mode" of some sort. Load basic drivers and a GUI, and, if possible, point them in the right direction. Don't make them go look for their Fedora Boot CD to run rescue. And then see a command prompt.
Knoppix. Include directions for installing to hard drive and setting up Debian. It still needs a bit more polish, but it could be killer.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
This manual goes through ... how to use the OpenOffice.org office suite ... and is available in .sxw (OpenOffice.org Writer) ... formats.
Erm... This reminds me, I have to go watch that videotape that'll show me how to use my VCR.
Ok, here's a torrent for parts 1-4. Make sure you right click and choose "save as". I didn't have a chance to reconfigure Apache. The sooner everyone stops their downloads and uses the torrent, the sooner I can get the rest of the files in a torrent.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Since SuSE Linux is the only distro I have extensive experience with, I use it as an example. Installation is as easy as booting off your DVD, selecting your language, accepting a few default options for partitioning and package selection, choosing your username and passwords, and waiting about half an hour for the system to install. And off you go surfing the net and writing letters with OpenOffice! The last time I ran into serious difficulties with a SuSE install was more than a few years ago.
A Windows install? The first few steps are quite similar, but once the system is installed the fun begins: insert manufacturer disk to install custom drivers; insert MS Office CDs to install word processor; hop on the web to download Acrobat Reader; install IM client, jukebox, IE replacement, firewall, and whatnot. With Linux all the stuff a beginner needs is already there; no need to hunt around for programs. And no need to reinstall every few months because a worm messed up the system.
Granted, with Linux you have to pay attention what hardware you choose, especially concerning printers and modems. But the time where you have to touch the command line in order to get Linux to run has passed quite some time ago.
By this logic, the GNU project never should have been started at all and neither should have the Linux kernel. Even by the narrow dictates of popularity, in order to make something popular one first must make something. This particular work is licensed to allow sharing, improvement, and commercial distribution which strikes me as being remarkably generous. We can't afford to believe that we must sequence our steps of progress because if we do we'll never accomplish anything.
I think it would be far healthier to continue to let a thousand flowers bloom.
Digital Citizen
Though slashdotted, if you actually get through you'd see
Linux has many distributions and sometimes the programs or tools used to perform a certain function can vary from distribution to distribution. This guide tries to be as generic as possible in the description of the features and functionalities. However, in some cases, especially some of the GUI desktop configuration tools, there is no really independent generic tool that can be used and each distribution has its own tool. In such cases, we have tried to illustrate their usage using Fedora Linux
This guide was written on a Fedora Linux system and as such many of the screen shots reflect this. However, this should not be construed as an endorsement of this distribution of Linux over the others on the part of the authors.
Fedora's desktop is used for screenshots and examples, but it isn't a guide to Fedora.
I haven't read the PDF yet but I suspect its not directly aimed at Joe User. It is aimed at US(Linux user ITs or geeks) to GIVE to Joe User with a copy of Fedora or Mandrake. Yes you are correct that the stores will sell you windows but the end users are getting frustrated with Windows enough to be looking for solutions. This is one. They aren't likely to know about Linux but they may know about you. So get off your duff and show them the better way.
Slashdot, home of supporters of free software, free music, and free speech.Except for Moderators that disagree with you.
This is exactly what holds Slashdot back. Arrogant people spouting the same old stuff labeled as 'insightful.'
The original poster complained about some stuff. The reply pointed out some places where his complaints are inconsistant with reality (i.e. you don't need to recompile the kernel for nVidia drivers).
This person is not necessarily representative of the Linux community. Yes, he came off elitist. However, we're also reading Slashdot, where every elitist nerd comes to post his tripe. There are plenty of friendly people in the Linux community ready to help out newbies. Slashdot is not the place they hang out to do tech support, though.
Also, the "not worthy of my time" type comment was aimed at pointing out the other arguments the original poster made that aren't consistant with reality, not with providing tech support.
But, posting "blah blah Linux elitism blah blah will never succeed," is guaranteed to be modded insightful, even though it's bullshit. You think there aren't elitist Windows or Mac users? If you do, you're deluding yourself.
I've come for the woman, and your head.
...having a graphical explanation for a graphical user interface. Seems a natural anyway.
Long time ago, not sure which version, 95 maybe, a friend of mine had a VCR tape he got mailorder that walked you through a lot of windows stuff, it was quite good really, as you could set up your machine next to the Tv and play along with it.
Seriously. Mandrake is easy to install, has excellent hardware detection, and passed the "my-non-techie-mother can use it" test. Once you set up the urpmi system (a lot like apt-get for Debian, and has a graphical front-end for it as well), updating and upgrading is straightforward and simple.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
My company uses Mandrake for some of the servers, and all of our desktops. The problem we are running into now is that, Mandrake has officially stopped supporting some of the older versions (prior to 9.0). We have a few servers that were still stuck on 8.1, and we were forced to go through a rather painful upgrade (no, it's not as easy as putting in a newer MDK CD, that actually broke the system).
:)
And we are getting ready now because 9.0 will soon be discontinued as well (or has it been discontinued already?)
This would not have been a problem if the upgrade option actually works. When upgrading one of our 9.0 machines to 9.2 (by putting in a MDK 9.2 CD), glibc broke and we couldn't figure out why... so we had to do it again, build a 9.2 machine, and copy data from the 9.0 ones. this sucks. big time.
I have had better luck with upgrading on Debian, and I wish my boss could agree with me... he loves that i586 extension on Mandrake, and seeing i386 makes him nervous.
I run Gentoo at home, and upgrading is *VERY* easy
# emerge world
done.
I think this guide is a fantastic idea for people like my uncle. The guy absolutely hates Microsoft, for a variety of reasons that will be familiar to most Slashdot readers. But he has never switched to anything else because he's too afraid of losing compatibility, not being able to use MS Office, etc. I should say he *was* afraid, because I recently gave him an old G3/500 iBook running Mac OSX, and he loves it.
Now he is ready to take his old Wintel box and put Linux on it. This manual will be perfect. I can pass it his way, have him give it a read-through, and then I'll go over to his place and we'll run through a Linux installation together.
There are a variety of folks out there who have a strong dislike for Microsoft products, but have no real experience with anything but Microsoft. They know that many pundits say OS X is a better user experience. They know that Linux is out there too. But they need all the help they can get in pushing past the extremely strong inertia that Microsoft has created.
You are quite right in saying that "the vast majority of them will be too scared or too stubborn to switch," but I believe that if there are multiple avenues (in the true *NIX tradition) for people to take in their quest to find alternatives to Microsoft, so much the better. Linux has never been about "The One True Way" and I think it's a bit much to expect that we will ever find "a way to deal with it." Why not present multiple paths?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
You may be suffering from selective memory. I recently bought a copy of VMWare, so to play around with it I dug copies of Win3.1, NT3.51 and NT4 out of the basement.
When I installed them, all of my suppressed memories of configuration hell came flooding back. Arbitrary restrictions on partition sizes and filesystem types. Dismal driver support for the early NT versions (I was basically stuck in 640x480x4bit video modes). Painful networking setup. All sorts of other miscellaneous gotchas that I had long forgotten. (Back in the day, it would have been worse than that because I would have had to be pulling out adapter cards and moving jumpers around to get everything working right.) And after all that effort, I was faced with a stark ghetto of an OS that had zero useful apps or utilities preinstalled.
It's funny how these desktop OSes were able to generate billions of dollars of revenue in their day, but now people think that OSes which are lightyears beyond that level still aren't "ready for the desktop".
I've looked through it, and I still have no idea how to use the three shells.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Bullshit. I am a longtime computer user with a goodly amount of grey hair. You were probably in diapers when Windows 3.11 came out. Windows 3.11 came with exactly jack and shit functional. It had Solitaire, but that's about it. Need TCP/IP? Download Trumpet Winsock. Then download Mosaic and Pegasus Mail. Oh yeah, install all your apps...maybe Word, maybe Word Perfect, maybe Lotus, maybe any number of other stuff. Windows95 was a little better. You got TCP/IP networking, you got The Microsoft Network (remember when MS was chasing AOHell and Prodigy?) and you got Wordpad. Oh yeah, and Solitaire. w00t. 2K gave you Internet Exploder and Outhouse Excess, and also a pinball game to go along with your Solitaire and Minesweeper.
OK, now what do you get with your average distribution of Linux? A lot more, eh? Fully fledged office suites, all the internet apps you want and some you don't, lots of cute little timesink games, a full development environment, educational software, multimedia software, and almost all the drivers you need. Including the NVidia drivers if you back away from the Fedora and try perhaps SuSE or Mandrake. Or even Linspire, which you can set up with a non-root user account and even use apt-get to update into glorious Debian-ness.
If you value your time, buy a machine that's preloaded. There's a lot more out there preloaded with Linux then there used to be.
If you are truly interested in getting free of Windows, there are tons of resources out there for it. And even if you stick with Windows, there's a lot of F/OSS out there to try while you make the transition.
HTH HAND
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
ATI provides a 9800 pro driver. I've installed it myself. The reason X distro's don't include it is because they are proprietary (non-free). However, their generic radeon driver runs just fine as long as you aren't doing any 3d acceleration. Funny, thats the same way it is with windows...built-in driver works but for 3d accel you need the ATI version.
Linux is NOT ready for non-technically inclined users to use as their desktop.
I see you've managed to completely ignore the posts about Suse and how easier to install than either Win2000 or WinXP. If the non-technically inclined can click on a few buttons, do the standard installation, and be surfing the web in a half hour or so, then I'd say that Suse is pretty fucking ready for them.
The only thing easier is having it pre-installed.
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
You've missed my point entirely. I'm not talking about the install process. If the install process was hard, and that was the entire problem, they'd get their techy friend to help.
I'm talking about daily use and administration. How easy is it to change software settings, install new software, view the word file their friend sent without having its format screw up, and edit that picture.
Yes there free apps out there, but they're often esoteric. Yes the install process is much better than the days of the old text install, but when you want to change something its harder.
For all its problems its still usually a few clicks to install windows applications, the settings are more often than not in the menus with a nice dialog box set up for picking between them, and even administering the computer can be done graphically without resorting to hand editing anything?
How many Linux users do you know that don't have to hand edit config files?
How many Windows users do you know that hand edit ini files or the registry?
THAT is my point.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I'm surprised that I haven't seen any jokes about /.'ing the UN, WMDs or other such jokes yet. A little background about that little server you guys are turning into molten plasma:
:)
/.'ing is over, do visit the site again later and see what the UN is doing with regards to FOSS. There are a few interesting projects underway, including FAQs for policy makers, localization toolkits and much more. The training materials are just the beginning of what the IOSN has in store.
The International Open Source Network is part of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). The IOSN's purpose is to promote Free and open source software to developing nations, particularly in the Asia-Pacific. The desktop training materials are part of that, as many governments have expressed a need for human capacity building materials. I'd link to the joint declaration for FOSS by 20 countries, but it's sitting on that same smoking server.
The IOSN server currently sits in the UNDP country office representing Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore. With a single link, Slashdot has DDOSed the UN representatives of 3 different countries! Sharing that internet link is the national website of Niue (www.niuegov.com) plus a number of websites for regional UN programs. Way to go guys. Expect UN weapons inspectors on your doors soon.
When the
"!" after a command in vi usually means "do the operation without prompting", or, to put it another way, forcibly do the operation, even though you may lose information (e.g., ":w!" will overwrite a file that you have opened read-only (i.e., with "view"), or that you indicated was read-only with the ":se readonly" command).
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I believe there are two things that linux desktop needs YESTERDAY:
/proc tree to be world-readable.. impossible to change without either a) lowering security level as a whole or b) edit the "default settings" config file in some hard-to-find location.
* Crash proof GUI's
Even in the latest distros, I've been able to crash almost all kinds of configuration "centers" and most GUI apps)
* Configuration GUIs that can do *almost everything*.
I am sick of Linux config GUIs with big emty white spaces and one textfield where you can write "yes" "no" or some obscure string like "eth2". For example, the firewall configuration should have an advanced button where you can do all kinds of portmapping, redirecting etc.
Another example is the Mandrake security center... it has several "uneditable" settings. For example I need the
And don't tell me to write it myself... I'm already working on a comprehensive iptables & Shorewall editor.
Now *THERE'S* a good idea. Put it in a proprietary format that *possibly* (current compatibility features accepted) won't be displayed properly on a GNU/Linux system, so that once they get on there and start trying to read the manuals and work their way around, they might not be able to read the manual properly. I would imagine that one of the requirements of the manual is that people are able to read them on a GNU/Linux system, so that they can actually try out the things they are learning.
And how do you suggest that they display screenshots in a text file? Being that the manual is for beginners, and they added as many screenshots as possible to aid understanding, having a text-only document would utterly defeat the purpose of the manual.
If you're going to rag on the format, at least suggest SENSIBLE (and preferably open) formats, such as PDF (which they already provide; most systems have a PDF viewer so this is not a problem) or HTML.
And to take a Free Software view for a moment, I think if you want a Free (as in speech) document about a Free system converted into a proprietary format, you aren't going to appreciate the philosophy of GNU/Linux.
I know from personal experience as an IT guy dealing with many users every day that most of them don't want a manual and don't even want to know any more than they absolutely need in order to get by.
Computers simply have not evolved to the Star-Trek like devices that only require some vague verbal commands, yet understand exactly what you want. Until that happens, most people will be 'afraid' of them and only use them in a 'black box' way to do something cool or necessary. Think of folks using their PC to fire up IE and read Hotmail, or using a computer that's packaged up as an ATM. [Yes, I'm a Mozilla user, but IE is still what most people unconsciously use as their browser!]
_KJH
Whoever Has the Most Toys Wins!
> Going all the way back to Windows 3.1, even
> my worst Windows installs always end up with
> more things functioning than with the best
> Linux installs.
So the only program you use is Solitaire and Calculator, must be because there weren't any other programs installed.
> I don't know what went wrong, but it absolutely
> refuses to accept my disc 3's.
So you skipped the 'check cd test' and got bitten by a badly burned disc 3....
> Immediately upon loading Gnome, it tells me I have
> some updates to download. 166 of them.
And how is this any different to booting win2000. First you have to install IE6, then SP4 (129 mb) and then 42 other security related updates, having to reboot 7 times in the process. Oh and if you're not behind a hardware firewall 2 or 3 worms install themselves before you have updated to IE6.
> Oh, you say Fedora Core 2 doesn't work with Nvidia
> graphic cards by default, unless you change a few
> settings and recompile the kernel?
Hmm, strange I'm using FC 2 right now with a nVidia graphics card, without changing any settings, and without recompiling the kernel.
I've set up a mirror at http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguide /.
e /print.html.
e /linux-userguide-sxw.torrent for OpenOffice files ande /linux-userguide-pdf.torrent for PDFs.
The original page with links is http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
Files are still being downloaded, you can see how many are present from the first link.
Torrents will be available when downloads are complete at:
http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
http://ftp.ftlight.net/pub/mirrors/linux-userguid
Now go around your office and find out which Windows Luser ever read the manual...none. That is how many will read this one. 90% of all users got their sorry little knowledge by routinely watching as their admins were forced to hold their little hands. Laziness, not ignorance, is what stands in the way of switching platforms.
As for me, I'm familiar with all (up to M$AS2003) not only 95/98. Has clippy maybe gone away. Ok, now you have to enable it.
.Net doesn't mean more security. Otherwise Java would be most secure until now. It's just runtime controlled software, nothing else. Controlled software is just as secure as environment and runtime engine is.
;)
The truth is that anyone who follows the advice of Windows and their ISP can be secure with a minimum of effort
ISP can never secure your box. ISP has to be defaulted to be open at least for it's internal network, which is often large. And can't block too much, because ISP could loose customers. Most of ISP's don't know shit about securing your box, because common ISP technical support mostly isn't qualified for that. I must admit that I was surprised once, when I talked to a guy on a level. It just turned out that he was from other department and temporally filling the gap in support.
With Service Pack 2, where Windows enforces it and doesn't just suggest it, it's even easier. The Linux community is out-of-touch...
1. Linux doesn't suggest firewall, it is enabled by default
2. So, having firewall that works in both directions is out-of-touch? Windows fw blocks only outside traffic, inside is not checked.
The fact is that Windows XP is actually a really good operating system...
Every fool has it's own horse! me? I got Linux
it's faster than Linux
Yeah, Windows starts Office faster, otherwise everything is dog slow
it's stable
Me and you obviously live on different planet. On our planet Windows is like a magnet to viruses, spyware and other malware.
it's a hell of a lot easier to use
Not for my needs. I agree that everyone without a clue what to do with his computer or someone who just wants to play games it is easier. But then again I have a clue and I have PS2.
it has a better security model than Linux.
Better security model as in....???? Windows hasn't got even real multi user environment. Two or three months ago M$ posted article how to write software for multiuser environment. To get a clue what I'm talking about. Start photoshop, Swithch user, Start another photoshop. Photoshop preferences blow, Ctrl-Alt-Shift become your friends (either that or that's $35 for Adobe support). This is the same tragedy as in most of Windows software.
Firewall-Like-One-Way-Toy was introduced with SP2???
So much talked-about
Windows is just getting with security where Linux was 5 years ago. For your information. Linux is moving away again with SELinux to be enabled by default.
And now the obligatory: "But of course this post opposed the Slashbot groupthink and will be modded down."
No, your comment is just stupid, that's all
(I think people say that because those posts always get modded up.)
Your comment is too stupid to be modded up, even if you beg as you do.
Signature Pro version 1.13.2-3 release 83.5 beta3try7 after-breakfast edition
Actually, after following steps 1,2,3,5 and 6, my Dad's laptop still:
-didn't have a working modem
-didn't have a working wireless card
-didn't have working bluetooth
-displayed at 640x460 in 256 colours
Software I then had installed amounted to:
-notepad
-wordpad
-paint
-windows media player
-internet explorer
-outlook express
After installing Mandrake 10.0 on it:
-modem didn't work (winmodem, par for the course)
-wireless didn't work (Intel Pro Wireless 2200)
-displayed at 1600x1200 instead of 1680x1050 (so you had to scroll the screen to see the whole desktop).
-bluetooth did work (after installing kdebluetooth from the CDs it was immediately useable)
Software I had installed amounted to:
-Full office suite
-development environment (my dad develops a bit of software in C++/OpenGL)
-Full Tex editing environment
-Choice of better internet browsers
-Choice of better mail client with built-in spam detection
-mathematical software (Octave etc)
-choices of multimedia software
-
To get all devices working under Windows XP I had to load all the driver CDs HP shipped with the machine.
To get the remaining hardware working under linux I had to download a driver for the wireless card and adjust the screen resolution.
So, it looks like linux actually wins with your instructions (and this is pretty recent hardware).
Now, my Dad is technically inclined, but doesn't really have much Linux experience.
My mom's machine is next.
Actually, after following steps 1,2,3,5 and 6, my Dad's laptop still:
-didn't have a working modem
-didn't have a working wireless card
-didn't have working bluetooth
-displayed at 640x460 in 256 colours
Software I then had installed amounted to:
-notepad
-wordpad
-paint
-windows media player
-internet explorer
-outlook express
After installing Mandrake 10.0 on it:
-modem didn't work (winmodem, par for the course - he doesn't need it now so I haven't installed the vendor's linmodem driver yet but it does work onmy laptop of similar model)
-wireless didn't work (Intel Pro Wireless 2200)
-displayed at 1600x1200 instead of 1680x1050 (so you had to scroll the screen to see the whole desktop).
-bluetooth did work (after installing kdebluetooth from the CDs it was immediately useable)
Software I had installed amounted to:
-Full office suite
-development environment (my dad develops a bit of software in C++/OpenGL)
-Full Tex editing environment
-Choice of better internet browsers
-Choice of better mail client with built-in spam detection
-mathematical software (Octave etc)
-choices of multimedia software
-
To get all devices working under Windows XP I had to load all the driver CDs HP shipped with the machine.
To get the remaining hardware working under linux I had to download a driver for the wireless card and adjust the screen resolution.
So, it looks like linux actually wins with your instructions (and this is pretty recent hardware).
Now, my Dad is technically inclined, but doesn't really have much Linux experience.
My mom's machine is next.
Of hearing the arguments on slashdot, regarding how ready or not linux is for the desktop. While there are a few rough edges here and there. My experience has told me that my retired parents can use Linux (MDK10) (after a successful trial with knoppix) and they rarely need my help. My dad is 70 and my mum in her mid 60's. They use it through choice , its a dual boot system and 99% of the time they choose linux of their own accord. On the rare occaisions my mother boots into windows I often hear her cussing about how she hates windows (this brings a smile to my face!)
There is more to that story but its proof enough to me that non-technical people can happily use it. And although I am around the house to help if things go awry. My assistance is rarely needed to fix things. When they used windows I would often get frustrated with the constant problems I had to fix for them.
My point is if you are non-technical windows can be just as annoying. if not worse than a properly set-up linux box. If you are an experienced linux user and are fed up of fixing friends or families windows boxes belonging to non-techies. In my experience once they are up and running those problems seem to dissappear, your life and theirs just got better.
The only confusing thing for new linux users is breaking the habit of buying off the shelf software. In addition their is the issue of Windows games not running. If they are a hardcore gamer chances are they are fairly technical anyway. My PS2 does just fine for me.
Anyway the point of this post was not really to post "yet another example of how linux can work well for non-techies" but actually to ask this question...
Does anyone know of a website containing l success stories and examples of non-techies who have found the joy linux has brought into their computing lives? Because if one does not exist, I'd like to consider setting one up. Anyone interested or with similar stories please post here.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
It's just difficult to setup.
The Linux desktop (ala KDE, GNOME) is very easy to use. I've read stories where people are saying that their mom and dad use it and their whole family uses it, and I beleive it. Yes it is true the new Linux desktops are easy to use.
But that is not the point. The point is that although it is easy to use, it is extremely difficult for the average user to setup correctly because the fact is that the Linux desktops have failed to shield the average user from the underlying mechanics of Unix. The only desktop to have done that successfully so far is Mac's Aqua interface.
To prove my point. just ask that same mom or dad or aunt and uncle to install a printer. Then we see a different story. Just ask them to install a digital camera or a scanner or compile an email client. Thats were the ease of use of Linux ends and the Windows logo begins.
So the problem here isn't one of ease of use. Helk, KDE is cake to use once everything is installed and working. But unless your're a Unix guru just try to get everything installed and working!