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Secret Service Seeks Indymedia Logs
sunbird writes "The Justice Department has issued a subpoena seeking IP logs from Calyx, the ISP for nyc.indymedia.org, after individuals posted [1 | 2 | 3] the names, addresses, and phone numbers of some of the RNC delegates. The subpoena was issued as part of an ongoing investigation of voter intimidation. As reported earlier in this Slashdot article, the Justice Department tried this before. Calyx, represented by the ACLU, responded, claiming that '[t]he only intimidation taking place here is the Secret Service intimidating people who speak out against the government.' [Full text of the letter available here] Read more: Indymedia.org | NYT"
Seems to me like an obvious abuse of power. I mean, sure, it's an obvious privacy invasion to the delegates there, but they're public officials! Public officals can't and shouldn't expect alot of privacy simply because the people the represent need to be able to contact them.
Now on the other hand, things like this are probably the reason as to why many message boards (Slashdot included) only store logs for a day or two. You can suponea what doesn't exist anymore!
For exactly this reason.
You can listen to streams of the RNC protest news Here (Portland IMC) and Here (A-Noise)
As I write, hundreds of people from the war resistors league march are being arrested, without a dispersal order or any charges.
And you don't think the reps know this?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1) What is the Justice Department doing about the harrassment of Black Voting Leagues in Florida? If the answer (which I suspect it is) is "nothing" than this a clear case of government being used in a partisan and heavy-handed manner. It's also racist and classist. 2) I don't know about your state, but the Georgia GOP's website already lists already lists their delegates as well as the alternates for all to see. Just plug the name into Switchboard and you can get their addresses. Conclusion? This is a disingenuous, partisan, racist, classist abuse of the Justice Department. Someone else want to argue that point?
Back in the old days Americans was free and liberated; nowadays it seems we Europeans are a little freer as in beer.
The government is controlled by the people for the people in the spirit of democracy.
USA is on the way to become more like a totalitarian state where the people are controlled by there government - the fusion of all intelligence department services would indeed speed this up.
I however do trust that the legal systems will protect the individual citizens from being gagged all the time.
In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.
These people aren't representing anyone other than people who CHOOSE to be in Republican Party. There's no requirement for anyone to be represented by them. If I start writing posts on Slashdot representing the views of my friends, should I have my information published?
the information that was posted is publicly available
I don't think the Secret Service is interested in the fact that information was made easily available, but rather, the intent of the people for which the information ws made easily available.
If it's public knowledge that the sole intent was to harrass and intimidate those who's information was posted, then the secret service (or whomever) should try to track those rabblerousers down.
Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
I wouldn't put it past the Republicans to release their own information anonymously and then blame the Democrats for "hacking".
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Well if a bunch of republicans got a bunch of addresses and phone numbers and names of African-American voters posted them on the internet then recommended that people go and taunt and protest and make angry phone calls all to stop these people from voting i think i would be very angry as well as most of the county..
but this is all "legal" in terms of freedom and political speach....i am on the wall on this. I am a member of the aclu but I am not so sure they should be supporting this attack on the gop deligates.
stendec@gmail.com
...the crybabies in the stupid party love to have all sorts of lists THEMSELVES, but when THEY wind up on a list, they cry foul. This is THE most repressive, restrictive, scary administration I can remember going back to eisenhower, JFK clearer for me. Makes noxon and his crew of scumbags look like amateur stick up artists. Makes the last crew of crooked texans around LBJ look like choir boys, and those were some crooked mofos. You got people right now in that party and their media spokesweasels like michael savage and on their online activist forums openly calling for concentration camps and federal charges for "protesters" and calling for outright genocide against all islamic people. You got ashcroft actually pushing for the camps, and I can tell you, at least a few of them already exist, and we got more coming. Ye GADS the patriot act 1 and 2 are signed into law reality and we actually have a thing called DAS HOMELAND security. what more of a clue do you need? And if they don't get their way, they are gonna pull another bigtime phony terror attack like the one they pulled on 9-11, but this time it will be hardcore, not fooling around. These are dangerous, insane, megalomaniacal feudalists, this is the big push, all the way, hardball, going for the gold for them. They and their policies are the height of hypocrisy. At lower levels then federal, it's a different ballgame, they still got a lot of decent people, but even there, way more party loyalty than NATION loyalty, and believe me, if you ain't with them, you are a terrorist, they even said it out loud. At the top leadership levels and in the federal party level, nope, mostly fascists, and they are actively pursuing an ever increasing fascistics government. This is NO JOKE. These people are right this second getting away with mega scam 9-11, they are killing people all over the planet, co opting our own guys, disappearing people, running freeking death squads, and they got a bunch more wars planned, just waiting for an opportune time to start them. The one in iran will start once they provoke the iraninans enough to attack them "first". They are waiting until after the election to restart up the draft, and they ARE going to do it. They are blatantly, clearly, and with zero scientific evidence to the contrary using WMD in the form of DU rounds and spreading it all over the middle east, and got factories on triple time building more. They are deploying the planets most sophisticated "anti riot" alleged "less than lethal" weapons, designed for controlling masses of civilians. They have been running house to house training in gun confiscation. They have more or less taken over vast numbers of local police stations with dual badged cops. You got the head goofball who's family has clear and distinct business ties to bin laden and tangentially with saddam with monkey brains cabinet goofs, and the controlled media refuses to address this. We had a fresh zogby poll released yesterday that shows the majority of new yorkers think 9-11 was a scam,and that the whitewash commission was a joke and it needs to be reinvestigated by someone other than the fed perps who pulled it off, and you ain't seeing that poll on any of the mass media outlets, it's only on some websites and on the shortwave shows.
This is a big dangerous reichstagg fire type scam, those folks thinking this is some normal "open and honest" election coming with diebold machines or that these are normal times are just not paying attention, this is freeking germany circa mid 30's, heading for the home stretch.
It is my wish that all Republicans and all Democrats should eat some bad ham and die tomorrow.
Then I could get some work done in peace and quiet without poorly educated and badly misinformed idiots clamoring that they are right.
If you can't accept that NO party has all the answers, then here's a sandwich!
Of all that you posted, this is the only one I disagree with:
p. 2 #18: "We oppose the Endangered Species Act."
That's enough to kill my vote for Bush. It's also enough to kill my vote for Kerry. (For those of you who haven't been paying attention, BOTH Bush and Kerry are pro-hunters/sportsmen.)
It's a sad day when one's only choice is to vote "no confidence", and even that has to be a write-in.
RTFP!
They didn't just steel delgates info they stole personal information about citizens who support Bush.
And guess what? Your NOT fair game! I do NOT have the right to harass you. I do NOT have the right to publish your personal info and suggest to others to harass you. I do NOT have the right to endorse, encourage, or enable those who wish to harass you. Otherwise I would go to jail!
So if "They're just as fair game as [you]", then they are NOT fair game.
PS. Don't sweat the bill of rights. It's difficult to amend the constitution for a reason.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Two critical differences between this and the Nuremberg Files:
1. The doctors information that was being posted in the Nuremberg case are private citizens, the RNC delegates are public citizens with their information registered and available with the state (and hey, pictures and diaries on their website!).
2. The Nuremberg information was put up with explicit incitement to murder, bomb and kill the doctors and their place of work, that is not how these things were published - they were published with the instructions that this is where people are going to be if you want to protest them.
The ACLU won the case against the abortion crackpots in the Nuremburg case, they are working on this case as well, I think they know exactly what they are doing and how this is different.
It's been said before, and I really don't care.. But here's the obligatory:
Where are GWB's service records? Medicals? Flight logs? Why can't anyone be found that served in the same unit as him?
When people call him a 'deserter' it isn't because they think he joined the Guard to dodge the draft, they say it because they believe he joined the Guard, skipped a physical because he was snorting coke and went AWOL. Now, I don't have jack-shit to back those accusations, but that's what I've seen thrown around for a *LONG* time now.
In any case, the aforementioned 'missing' records would quiet a lot of screaming howls from the rabid-left.
Perhaps not welcomed by the city residents. But the website was intended to reach people all over the country, if not all the world, inviting them to go to NYC and create trouble for the delegates.
And since a quick glance at IndyMedia's website shows nothing about the beating of the cop yesterday, I can only assume they are giving the perps tacit approval. Of course, if the situation were turned around, and a Christian Coalition member were the would-be cop-killer, IndyMedia would immediately demand that the GOP, the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Catholic Church disavow these horrible tactics.
And what's so unfortunate about the pro-gun voting block? I happen to be one of them.
I apologize for the slant of that comment. I did not mean to speak derisively of people that are pro-guns. I am pro-guns. I think it's unfortunate that it's a strong voting block because, as I was mentioning, I think the gun issue is used to manipulate voters. I think the Democratic threat to guns is exagerrated by the Republicans. I have friends who are liberal wackos and very rarely do they talk about how they want to see guns banned. That seems to be at the absolute bottom of the 'liberal agenda' from what I can tell. But for many Republicans, defense of the second ammendment seems to be at the top of their agenda. It would be great if the two groups could get together and recognize they aren't as divided as they thought on this issue. From there, they could unite to campaign on more important issues like protecting our forests and wetlands which are enjoyed by both groups in different ways.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
As for the accusations about Kerry in Vietnam, if he would talk about a reason to elect him OTHER than the 4 months he spent there, then maybe other people would dwell less on it as well.
If there wasn't a vicious attack on his record by people who have all been revealed as liars, he wouldn't have to.
Given that his opponent was a deserter, it shows McCain's lack of integrity in supporting Bush.
Your respect was probably going to last only as long as McCain ripped on his own party. Somehow, I don't think he's weeping for the loss of your endorsement.
Where do you get this crazy horseshit. You seem to think party loyalty is some kind of absolute as well.
Other than in the last election, I have never voted for a Republican *or* for a Democrat. The parties are the major problem as evidenced by McCain.
I respected him because he did serve his country with honor. I respected him because I think he really was trying to clean up with his finance reform act.
I respected him because he seemed to work with people to achieve valid goals regardless of their party.
By the way, here's a standards check: do you also respect Zell Miller or Ed Koch or Ron Silver, liberals all, for going against their party because their convictions tell them to?
I respect any elected official who is working for the best of the people of this country. I respect them when they stand up for freedom (not Bush's Orwellian vision of it). I respect them when they stand on the side of We the People and against corporate interests. I have no problem with corporations in general, but when it comes to a choice between my rights and a corporations, I have no respect for anybody who sells me and my country out regardless of which party they are a member of or which one they vote with on a given issue.
I support the second amendment so I must be a Republican.
But I support the separation of church and state since this country was founded in part by Christians who were fleeing oppression by other fucking christians. Then of course they started burning innocent people alive. So it is quite obviously essential that religion can have no voice in the government of a free society.
So I absolutely can't be a Republican since they are the party who wants religious rule.
I know that government has no business of any sort legislating what happens inside my or anybody else's body, so the Republicans are far worse since they desperately want to shove their noses right up everybody's ass.
Both parties are fucked on drug policy.
I believe that some amount of government is necessary to stop some of these crazy fuckers and to prevent corporations from absolutely raping us, so Libertarianism is out too.
So I respect anybody who makes it into office who actually wants to work for freedom, which in this day and age seems to mean they have to work against both of the major parties.
My money says you're calling them sellouts. I'd be willing to bet "respect" and "conviction" is a one way street for you
Again with the accusations when you don't know a damn thing about me.
You are dead wrong.
Again.
Did you ever consider that maybe he thinks his party is the best one for the country? I mean, he's a REPUBLICAN Senator for a reason.
Not for one second. He knows he would make a far better president. Given this administration's record, nobody with a scrap of patriotism could support them. They have fought tooth and nail against everything this country claims to stand for.
And the current administration has nothing in common with the Republican platform.
They pay lip service to "small government", while they are increasing it to an incredible degree mortgaging our children's income while driving future income for any but the wealthiest down.
Creating police state agencies led by some of the worst criminals in our nation's history (Poindexter, Rumsfeld et al)
Tearing down our terrorism inv
Of course we all know about G.W.Bush and the patriot act and all kinds of other bad stuff. No need to beat a dead horse on that, as most Slashdotters hate Bush already. We all agree that Bush is a bad, bad man.
But why the mindless cheerleading for those on the left?
It was the left who pushed the government to crack down on protests as a way to silence anti-choice protestors, and those same laws are now being used to crack down on protests of Bush.
It is the left that supported terrible censorship in the way of political correctness.
Leftists always scream bloody murder when the FBI wants to be able to access private information on demand in order to catch terrorists, but will support without question the right of the IRS to access private information on demand in order to tax people.
The left complains that the media is being controlled by a handfull of powerful corporations... their solution: put the media under the control of a handfull of powerful politicians.
The left always tell us about the need for the government to strongly regulate the economy. But when the government does enforce regulation like the DMCA, they suddenly change their tune.
The left protests when the U.S. government bombs children in other countries (and rightfuly so), but when the U.S. bombs children in Waco Texas U.S.A, they wholehearted support it.
The lefists complain about Republicans cheating the elections... and then use every dirty trick in the book to exclude candidates of other parties (Libertarians, Green Party).
I hate G. W. Bush and everything he stands for... but, come on, these people protesting are just as bad as G.W. Bush. Are people really so cought up in their political jingoism that they can't see how they are just as facist in action, and probably even more so in idiology, as G.W.Bush?
Can I get some linkage on that? Or is it BS? (Specifically the .30-.30 WInchester part)
g i?position=all&page=S1633&dbname=2004_reco rd
Sorry, I meant to post a link to that and got in a hurry. First, the exact quote from Kennedy for those who don't feel like reading the Congressional Record which I will link to at the bottom:
"Another rifle caliber, the 30.30 caliber, was responsible for penetrating three officers' armor and killing them in 1993, 1996, and 2002. This ammunition is also capable of puncturing light-armored vehicles, ballistic or armored glass, armored limousines, even a 600-pound safe with 600 pounds of safe armor plating.
"It is outrageous and unconscionable that such ammunition continues to be sold in the United States of America. Armor-piercing ammunition for rifles and assault weapons is virtually unregulated in the United States. A Federal license is not required to sell such ammunition unless firearms are sold as well. Anyone over the age of 18 may purchase this ammunition without a background check. There is no Federal minimum age of possession. Purchases may be made over the counter, by mail order, by fax, by Internet, and there is no Federal requirement that dealers retain sales records."
--- Senator Edward Kennedy, New York (February 26, 2004, Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, Congressional Record, (Pp. S1634-5)
This bill would have essentially given the Attorney General the power to ban any ammunition that was capable of penetrating police soft body armor. (For those unfamiliar with the 30-30 caliber it is a popular deer rifle cartridge.) (Presidential candidate, John Kerry, was one of the votes in favor of this bill.)
Link to the Government Printing Office's site listing the relevant section of the Congressional Record:
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.c
PS - I had problems getting that to show up properly in Mozilla. IE worked fine.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
When it's time for the "3rd American Revolution", if the bulk of the military isn't on your side, _your_ little pop-guns aren't gonna do diddly-squat except annoy a few soldiers.
The real means of preventing military dictatorships are making sure that the military is more connected to the general populace than it is to its "leaders" so that when the "leaders" try to takeover, the military shoots _them_ instead of their friends & family.
The polarization is making it difficult to talk about any remotely political topics in a balanced way to find solutions or even common ground. Take, for example, education (soul-sucking registration required).
I just got back from a brief excursion into Manhattan...saw a protest march in progress going down 6th Avenue.
The first thing I saw were the 40 or so police on scooters, then I noticed about 80 on foot, in ranks 2-deep (might have had riot-gear, couldn't see).
"Buried" within this sea of blue were about 30 or so protesters - the one at the front was holding a sign that said something like "Keep Our Earth Green."
So basically peaceful evironmentalists were outnumbered 4-1 by Police Officers.
In short, the Right to Peacably Assemble is alive and well. Horray!
According to the ACLU reply, the ISP doesn't keep the data that the government is looking for. Do ISP's have a legal obligation to keep records as to who does what and when on their systems? If not, it seems that ISP's could save themselves a lot of trouble by deliberately NOT logging such data.
All theory is gray
"If you didn't know, trap-shooting, while a fun sport, tends to be overrun with what could be termed the aristocratic snobs of the so-called "gun culture.""
Bzzt! Thanks for playing!
I used to live next door to a gun shop in rural Vermont. In fact, I used to set trap for trap shooters to make pocket money when I was 12 years old.
The people who were shooting trap were people who (a) liked to shoot trap because it's a fun challenge or (b) liked to shoot trap as practice for hunting.
Sorry, but there were no aristocratic snobs there. At the time, there wasn't much for aristrocratic snobs in Vermont, period. (How the times have changed)
My advice is that you keep your trap shut and stop spouting stereotypical cliches.
I sort of like the strike throughs, they remind us to change the parts that aren't right, add the parts we need. I'ts not a static document, it is a wiki of sorts, you just need lots of karma to post. Every wiki needs a revision history.
-anonymity is not cowardace.