Apple VP discusses iMac G5 Hardware Design

MrMiyagi writes "Apple VP of of Hardware Product Marketing, Greg Joswiak, discusses the new iMac G5's hardware design. Apparently it's light enough to carry around the house, and has special fans that run at low speeds making the cooling very quiet."

Comments

Oft-Overlooked Point

[the pickle]

In everyone's clamouring for a G5 PowerBook, a lot of people have said that this iMac proves a G5 PowerBook could be coming soon.

Joswiak does a great job of explaining exactly why that won't be happening:

There's still a luxury we have in two inches that we don't have in a fraction of an inch, if you think about how much space there really is in the bottom of a PowerBook... Certainly we were trying to learn from the iMac, but not like, "Oh, there's this breakthrough now, expect it next month.

I want a G5 PowerBook as bad as the next guy, but I'm a realist about it. If we see one by MWSF in January I'll be VERY impressed.

Fascinating interview overall. Anything that gives insight into Apple's collective thought process is worthwhile for the rest of the tech industry to keep an eye on.

p

Re:Oft-Overlooked Point

[Dot.Com.CEO]

I have the latest 12in AlBook and it's not that bad. I played around with an earlier model before settling on the 1.33MHz one. It really was getting too hot after a while, especially after playing a 3d game (neverwinter nights in my case). The 1.33 one gets warm and only gets moderately hot (ie not hotter than a comparable windows laptop) when playing games. The main inconvenience of that is that the tiny fan starts working full time and makes a hell of a noise (for a laptop, that is).

So, to sum it up, the faster G4 PBs run much, much cooler than the past generation.

It's very user serviceable

[Anonymous Coward]

From Apple's Site:

Think you need a new part? You can replace many of your iMac G5's parts yourself.

The iMac G5 is designed to make it easy for you to install replacement parts if you need to. The parts you can install yourself are:

AirPort Extreme Card

Memory - DDR 400 MHz (PC3200) SDRAM

Hard drive

Optical drive

Power supply

LCD display

Modem card

Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, NVIDIA graphics processor, and so forth).

The back supposedly has only three screws holding it on. Plus a optional wall mounting bracket is available from Apple. The keyboard can go under the computer to save desk space, fans are quiet too!

Team Mac OS X #1971 is going to love Folding@home with this new toy.

I love it and definably getting one!

Re:It's very user serviceable

[numark]

Hard drives are considered "user servicable parts" under AppleCare and therefore changing them doesn't void your warranty. In fact, virtually everything you could buy off the shelf and install into your G4 will be considered user servicable. The only things that could void your warranty would be, say, changing out the logic board or other devices that aren't readily available and must be procured from Apple.

Now, of course, if you go to install a hard drive, and you snap pins off of the IDE connector on the logic board, then yeah, you would void your warranty. This is no different from PCs. However, assuming that everything gets done correctly, AppleCare will continue to cover your computer regardless of what you've upgraded.

Re:It's very user serviceable

[Anonymous Coward]

you're comepletely wrong.

any part that is NOT listed as CIP (customer installable part) by apple for a particular model of Mac wiill VOID the warranty if removed or repaired by anyone other than an authorized service provider.

http://www.info.apple.com/usen/cip/index.html

how about doing some research next time, idiot?

Re:Smart Design

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that one of the most interesting parts of this new iMac is the fact that it has air holes in the top of it so that the hot air can rise out

I'd think that interesting too, maybe, but it's wrong. There are no air holes in the top of it.

There is an exhaust slit at the back.

Re:All fine and dandy

[Anonymous Coward]

Doubtful, though the G5 iMac comes close. The vertical design and vent placement allows for some degree of convection cooling, but the G5 produces too much heat (at least at times, based on my experience so far with my Power Mac G5) for convection alone to be sufficient even in a vertical case. Fan-assisted convection is about as good as it'll probably get from here on out.

Re:iMac G4 arm will be missed

[daviddennis]

When I've raised this issue in previous articles on the new iMac, I have been informed that it's apparently VESA compliant and there are VESA arms that you can buy.

Not as elegant a solution as the original iMac - in fact, I wish the redesigned displays had an arm - but it should work.

D

Re:Apple devotees a little miffed

[phillymjs]

Some people are complaining about it not being wall mountable

Some people don't read specs closely enough before bitching.

Apple will start selling a VESA mount adapter for the new iMac in October which opens up all kinds of mounting possibilities. The only thing that it can't do is hang flush against the wall, due to the power connection and ports (unless you modify the wall behind it to accommodate those).

~Philly

Re:Smart Design

[FuzzzyLogik]

i think the poster was pointing out that we don't typically see this in many mainstream computer manufacturer's designs.. when in fact we should see it. Why should PC's be so loud when apple can design a 2 inch thick computer that's virtually silent? given the amount of room in a typical pc case why should the 2 inch thick imac be so much quieter when compared to a larger pc? I think that's the point he was trying to make, not that it hasn't really been done before, but it should still be done regardless of how old the idea is. it's a clever design, why not use it? you sir need to chill and just oh.. i don't know, contribute but not be such an ass in the process? sounds good.. then again you are an AC so i guess your reasoning is pretty well explained.

Re:Apple devotees a little miffed

[Alan Hicks]

The original iMac, G4 cube and even the last iMac (to a certain extent) were elegant.

I can't say with any certainty about the cube or original iMac, but the previous iMac was an expensive beast to manufacture with that movable arm. Getting rid of it likely reduced a large chunk of the most to make an iMac.

Also, from a marketing standpoint, they completely missed the fall school schedule.

That's certainly something Apple regrets make no mistake about it, but it wasn't something they had a lot of choice over. The G5 iMac just couldn't be produced in large enough quantities for a release until IBM could get the G5 chips made. So this isn't really a marketing blunder, but a production blunder from a third party vendor. What are you gonna do?

Re:Apple devotees a little miffed

[aluminumcube]

There will be a wall mount available on the Apple Store for the G5 iMac in October. It complies with the VESA spec and will cost $30.

As to the cable issue, I don't see how it's going to matter that much- cables in the base or cables from the side, your still going to end up with a bunch of wires sticking out the back of your computer any way it goes. For $220, you can upgrade to the Bluetooth mouse+keyboard AND get an AirPort Express which includes a USB port so you can print wirelessly.

In a way though, having the plugs where they are makes perfect sense though- My mom's G4 iMac was tucked back into her desk and it was always a PITA to move everything off the desk to pull it out and get to the ports when necessary. With people plugging and unpluging devices often (which a lot of people do in my experience as the family tech support guru), it makes sense to place accessability over aesthetics.

Or let me put it to you another way- Apple is an exceedingly anal retentive company when it comes to design. I for one would trust that they explored every option on where to put the ports and they decided that the side was the best solution. That isn't to say they are right, but I am willing to bet money there were more then a few pound-the-table arguments about that issue.

Re:The All-in-One is cool,

[crackshoe]

educational implementations tend to use (and often prefer) the all-in-one. Its easier to move (mobile computer carts), harder to steal parts (its actually an issue - i promise). From the all-in-one g3 (with the clear plastic hood which led to the imac, if i don't misremember, which i might) to the emac (and, if you want to go farther back, the long line of apple all-in-one units).

Design is a regression, but a progression in cost

[adzoox]

One thing that was mentioned at Expo Paris that isn't mentioned in this article:

The design was carefully thought out to save weight. [and therefore shipping/distribution costs] The previous sunflower design was costing almost as much as an eMac (with a heavy CRT) to ship because the base needed to be counterweighted. This was a "design flaw" of the sunflower iMac.

I had proposed something like this to maintain the sunflower design - which I believe to be one of the most unique electronic designs of the decade.

What a lot of people don't understand about the new unit is that with the stand - this unit actually takes up a little more depth than the eMac and carries NO side to side rotation - like the swingarm from the previous design did. If you add in this element - it actually takes up 40% more deskspace. One must have all of that area clear on the desktop to turn the display. [new iMac is much more static]

Re:Smart Design

[fitten]

Hot air rises to the top because it is lighter.


Actually, it doesn't rise at all (haven't you seen *any* of the Professor Julius Sumner Miller videos?) "There ain't no Hindu levitation goin on here!" :)

Warm air is pushed up by cooler air below it because the warmer air is less dense than the cooler air.

Re:Smart Design and Smart Engineering

[ScottSpeaks!]

The iMac G5 is a full-blown workstation in its own right.

The low-end iMac G5 is - almost spec for spec - last year's low-end PowerMac G5. I should know: I have one (and paid nearly $1000 more for it).

Re:Apple devotees a little miffed

[kTag]

>Some people are complaining about it not being wall mountable

iMac product page. Next to the VESA logo, you can read:
"The iMac offers the smallest footprint ever, but you can make that zero with an optional VESA mount. Hang it from the wall or swing it around on your desk."
So, now the iMac has a high-end feature, cool!!

--
kTag

Re:iMac G4 arm will be missed

[OgGreeb]

Since the G5 iMac will support a VESA mount, you can mount it on any floating arm, wall-mount it, etc.
Take a look at Ergotron for instance. You could mount two iMacs side-by-side on the same mount, or mount the iMac on an arm with the keyboard floating underneath.

Re:Smart Design and Smart Engineering

[Jeremy Erwin]

but you can use firewire-800. You can also cram 4 gb into the PMG5. The bus is also faster.

Re:The All-in-One is cool,

[Malacon]

I'd love to see a system with the same stats, without the LCD being offered to the education and enterprise markets. That would kick up Apple's market share in a heartbeat.

They did that a few years back - it was called the G4 Cube and it did horribly.

It was too pricey to justify it not having a Monitor OR any expansion. I have a feeling that with the LCD iMacs they can save some of the cost of the Hardware in the mass produced screen. Take out the screen and its harder to do make a profit.

Search before posting

[SuperKendall]

Slashdot already had a story about the Airport Express being cracked - weeks ago. Here's a news article.

Or do a search for "Airport Express Linux" and you'll find the same thing.

Re:How many workstations have 256MB RAM?

[GigsVT]

He was talking about engineering workstations, not LAN party boxes. When you say bleeding-edge video, it seems to imply something like an ATI 9800 or higher, when that sort of card is of little use for an engineer of any type.

Re:Apple devotees a little miffed

[Anonymous Writer]

I know, I know, wireless keyboard and mouse -- but most people will be hooking a printer up to this thing

Rather than hooking up a printer to the unit, the printer could be hooked up to an AirPort Express.

This is the easiest iMac to access

[mr_rangr]

Of the three styles of iMacs, this one is by *far* the easiest to work on. Loosening three screws lets you remove the rear panel for full access to the entire system. Here is a diagram of its insides.

Re:Smart Design and Smart Engineering

[mattkime]

No its not. The frontside bus is half the speed. No Firewire 800. Half the total possible RAM.

Not to mention all the other goodies you get with the Powermac G5. PCI slots. Upgradable video. Two hard drive bays. Dual monitor support.

You may have paid nearly a grand more for it a year ago, but you still have more value than the current iMacs.

Re:eh...so its a laptop?

[jeephistorian]

Yep. I do carry one big heavy laptop around when I need one. Comes with doing heavy work (graphics).

Do you work for Apple? I build systems for clients that are made to be upgraded down the road because many non-profits (who my clients tend to be) can't pay for a brand new system every few years. When I think "desktop", I think about a computer that can be upgraded.

The new iMac is just a heavy laptop without an itegrated keyboard/mouse. There would seem to be a line beyond which it is no longer a desktop and it becomes a "portable desktop" as they have come to call the heavy hitter laptops.

Fritz
__________

Re:Smart Design

[.com b4 .storm]

Who would buy an iMac over a comparable laptop, and why?

Probably someone who...

1. Wants a G5 and/or doesn't want to spend $300+tax more for a laptop with an older, slower processor (1.3GHz G4 Powerbook), or
2. Doesn't want noisy laptop fans, or
3. Wants more hard drive space built-in, or
4. Wants a better GPU, or
5. Doesn't *need* a laptop, or
6. Any/all of the above

Then there's the screen size. As it stands now, a 17" PBook would cost $2800, and have a 1.5GHz G4 in it. For $1300, you get a 17" iMac with a 1.6GHz G5...

Re:Smart Design

[ThousandStars]

Now, how is this different and/or better than a laptop?

The base G5 iMac, for $1300, gets you more processing power and HD space than the most powerful $3000 Powerbook, as well as a higher-quality screen.

The iMac has more power, less money, and apparently it is somewhat user serviceable (contrary to your post).

Granted, in form factor is the number one priority and all others fall away in the distance, then there is little difference between a laptop and iMac. So when one does buy a laptop, one gives up both money and power. One gets other advantages, of course, and Apple makes various machines for the needs of different people.

Re:iLike it...

[Xxanmorph]

The Profile 4 isn't being made, that's because the Profile 5 series is around now. That would be a more useful comparison. That doesn't change your point (which I agree with) since the specs are nearly identical, just some info.

Re:Cool, out of my Amish lifestyle.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they are hot.

Re:eh...so its a laptop?

[BasilBrush]

The difference? A decent full travel keyboard, separate and therefore moveable in relation to the screen. A screen which is at a suitable height for viewing for full working days in front of it without damaging your health. But you already recognise that.
Add and remove parts? Standard HD, standard memory, both user upgradeable. Those are the common user upgrades. The only other common internal upgrade that isn't possible is changing a graphics card. Most other stuff is USB these days.
At one time people really used to care about having lots of slots in PCs to add internal upgrades. Those days are all but over.

Re:Smart Design and Smart Engineering

[xrissley]

Point noted, but let me direct you to Apple's onw site:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=868 12
which states precisely that user can herself service (so: replace and or upgrade) the following:
- AirPort Extreme Card
- Memory - DDR 400 MHz (PC3200) SDRAM
- Hard drive
- Optical drive
- Power supply
- LCD display
- Modem card
- Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, NVIDIA graphics processor, and so forth).

So true, graphic card still seems hard to upgrade, so seems CPU itself, but this is less of a stuck design here, nice improvement, not?

Of course, mirror only display makes a point for powermac form factor.
re drives, we have firewire (not 800, so pro will still look at the powermac line).

All in all, the comparison lots of people keep on making with Powermac prooves one thing: the iMac G5 seems to be a nice powerhorse.

Re:Cool, out of my Amish lifestyle.

[upsidedown_duck]

Actually, I think they allow people growing up Amish to experience technology at 18 years old.

Amish communities are intertwined with non-Amish communities, they work together, and they share community resources, like nice paved roads courtesy of the DOT. Many Amish people shop at modern grocery stores, work at modern restaurants, etc. In general, they completely co-exist with their more modern neighbors. Just drive through some of the small towns in Ohio north and east of Columbus, and you'll see this everywhere.

The Amish do keep to their traditions as much as they can, such as in their church services, using oxen to pull farming equipment, horses and buggies, etc., but they are faced with the challenges of whether to adopt more technology every single day of their lives.