2004 Hugo Awards Presented at Noreascon

DragonMagic writes "The Hugo Awards for 2003 have been handed out at the WorldCon at Noreascon in Boston." The winners are below.

Best Novel: Paladin of Souls, Lois McMaster Bujold
Novella: The Cookie Monster, Vernor Vinge
Novellette: Legions in Time, Michael Swanwick
Short Story: A Study in Emerald, Neil Gaiman
Related Book: The Chesley Awards for Science
Fiction and Fantasy Art: A Retrospective, John Grant, Elizabeth L. Humphrey, and Pamela D. Scoville
Professional Editor: Gardner Dozois
Professional Artist: Bob Eggleton and Pamela D. Scoville
Dramatic Presentation, Long Form: Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Dramatic Presentation, Short Form: Gollum's Acceptance Speech at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards
Semiprozine: Locus
Fanzine: Emerald City
Fan Writer: Dave Langford
Fan Artist: Frank Wu
Campbell Award: Jay Lake
Special Noreascon Four Committee Award: Erwin Strauss, aka Filthy Pierre

Comments

Question

[Raul654]

Who won the 1953 retroactive award? The nominees included The Caves of Steel, Fahrenheit 451, and Childhood's End. Yeesh - what a hard call.

Re:Question

[mediabunny]

The 1953 Retrospective Hugo Award Winners
Best Novel - Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Best Novella - "A Case of Conscience" by James Blish
Best Novelette - "Earthman, Come Home" by James Blish
Best Short Story - "The Nine Billion Names of God" by Arthur C. Clarke
Best Related Book - Conquest of the Moon by Wernher von Braun, Fred L. Whipple & Willy Ley
Best Professional Editor - John W. Campbell, Jr.
Best Professional Artist - Chesley Bonestell
Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form - The War of the Worlds
Best Fanzine - Slant, Walter Willis, ed.; James White, art editor
Best Fan Writer - Bob Tucker

Re:Question

[aka-ed]

Jesus. Now I realize why I haven't read SF in so long. The names for 1953 are all giants. Does anyone believe that today's winners will be viewed similarly in 50 years?

I know this could be interpreted as a flame. But if anyone can convince me I'm missing a lot by not having read any of this year's winners, please proceed!

Re:Question

[Txiasaeia]

Although I'm not usually a fanboy, Neil Gaiman's work has typically been stellar - do yourself a favour and pick up Coraline, last year's winner (novella? novelette? not sure which), an absolutely fantastic story about a young girl who visits the "flip side" of existence. There's no way that I can explain it without it sounding cheezy. Anyway, if you would just read that one story, you'd see that the current state of SF is pretty good.

Although not quite as current, other works by British SF writers such as J.G. Ballard and Christopher Priest are still fairly recent but are absolutely fascinating, even when held up to giants such as Bradbury and Clarke, even going back to Mary Shelley. Yes, we will remember Ballard for a *very* long time, and I think that Neil Gaiman will outlast a lot of pulp SF being written today.

Re:Question

[So_Belecta]

No, I totally agree; my bookshelves are full of stuff like Clarke, Asimov, Heinlein, the Dune novels etc. The only thing that I see that even remotely falls under the category of modern would the HHGTTG. Modern science fiction I find, is more of the same-old same-old; although to an extent that's not rally the authors fault, even with new advances in the real science world everyday there are only so many scenarios they can come up with. And don't even start me on how Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson are butchering Dune (although I see Brian's biography of the late Frank Herbert won an award)

Re:Question

[Mac Degger]

Well, Vinge does quite a bit of intelligent writing, and Gaiman is decent too, although personally I don't think his novels have the depth of his comics (Sandman...the only comic I know of to have won a literary prize meant for books :)), even though his novels have some very intersting ideas in them.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

The names for 1953 are all giants. Does anyone believe that today's winners will be viewed similarly in 50 years?

I agree with you, that the genre has gone downhill. It also burns me up to see the result of the 1953 retrospective - I don't think that Fahrenheit 451 holds a candle to either Caves of Steel or Childhood's End as science fiction. The trouble is that influential publishers and critics are applying criteria extraneous to the genre. I cannot otherwise understand why the kind of fantasy that J.G. Ballard wrote, for example, ever got into science fiction anthologies at all.
Of the current writers, Vinge does good work, though. If he keeps it up he might well be remembered in 50 years.

Re:Question

[M1FCJ]

I was thinking of the same thing lately. I went to my local bookshoop and bought 5 books by some 'new' writers (post-1990). So far I can recommend only some guy called Jeff Noon but I don't think you'll find him in US, he is quite an UK man, almost all of his stories take place in Manchester city. I am completely satisfied. Out of five random writers, I managed to satisfy myself with a very pleasant evening, reading his book called "Vurt". So not all hope is lost.

Re:Question

[aka-ed]

I don't think of Ballard as being of the current crop; Priest I haven't read, but hasn't he been around quite a long while as well?

I've avoided Gaiman since I found his early comic work cloying; his characters seemed self-involved brats, designed to appeal to narcisistic youth obsessed by the tragedy of their own inevitable demise.

I don't know if this would apply to subsequent works, but my distaste for Gaiman was strong enough to prevent further exploration.

Re:Question

[imsabbel]

Well. I guess Venor Vinge would be a giant if he wrote JUST a LITTLE more novels.
Orson scott card will be remembered.
I guess Dan Simmons, too.
And Niven. A bit older, but still after 53...

The problem is that all those people regarded as "giants" have written their books over a very long time. You cant just say that there arent really great rookies around the last few years because they may need another 20 years to build their place in the world of SF

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Iain Banks? Communist utopian science fiction, not exactly a done-to-death theme...

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'd say anarcho-socialist more than communist. Other than Banks, there's LeGuin's "The Dispossessed", I guess, maybe, sorta. Nothing like the Culture in other respects, though.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes the 1953 winners are giants. I have all of the fiction winners for that year, and have reread them all. Blish holds up well, Clarke's OK, and I've never cared for Bradbury. I will grant that Farenheit 451 is my favorite of his work.

My shelves are also full of Bujold and Vinge. I enjoy Bujold's SF, but don't care for her fantasy. Vinge's work is highly entertaining.

I've reread Blish, Bujold, and Vinge this year. All were enjoyable. I read mostly novels now, as I find that I don't enjoy short stories as much as when I was a kid. The money (such as it was) was in short stories in the early years; now it's in novels and extended series. It calls for different skills.

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Banks rocks. Excession... yeah!

Re:Question

[Txiasaeia]

Priest is fairly recent, 90s and onwards, as far as I know. Gaiman's recent novels are *much* better IMHO than Sandman.

Re:Question

[Aussie]

Try some Allen Steele stuff, when I first read one of his books, I thought Heinlein was back. Good, hard science stories, especially his "Near Space" stuff.
He has a collection of short stories called "Rude Astronauts" which has has some great shorts like "The Return of Wierd Frank " a classic if ever I have read one.

Re:Question

[dsheeks]

Connie Willis is a very tallented writer, having written excellent novels as well as some incredible short stories.

Of course by the time the 2053 Hugo awards come out we'll know exactly who the "giants" were in 2003. It seems a bit silly to think that there aren't writers as good today as there were 50 years ago. We might not see a Shakespeare every generation but there are plenty of good stories and authors to write them.

Re:Question

[ppanon]

Since most of the shorter length stories are online, you might want to try reading the winners. I can't say enough good things about Vinge's The Cookie Monster. It's the most imaginative thing he's written in nearly two decades.

Re:Question

[Trister Keane]

William Gibson, Rudy Rucker Iain M. Banks, Steven Brust, Bruce Sterling, Robert Holdstock all amazing writers with a solid body of work behind them and arguably better writers then their compatriots of fifty years ago. Try reading "The City and the Stars" and "Player of Games" back to back and see what you think.

Re:Question

[BJH]

Bollocks. I remember reading Christopher Priest's "The Glamour" in the mid-80s, and if you take a look at his chronology, you'd see he's been published since the 60s.

Re:Question

[1u3hr]

Jesus. Now I realize why I haven't read SF in so long. The names for 1953 are all giants. Does anyone believe that today's winners will be viewed similarly in 50 years?

Well, these are being awarded 50 years afer the event, so naturally those today considered "giants" probably score higher than a contemporary award might have.

Re:Question

[1u3hr]

Priest is fairly recent, 90s and onwards, as far as I know.

He was writng in New Worlds in the 60s. His first novel was Indoctrinaire, 1970.

Re:Question

[Lisandro]

Can you recommend any good Priest books? I've only read "Inverted world" - a rather old book of his i brought second hand. The underlying idea was rather nice, but it didn't particularly impressed me.

Re:Question

[Lisandro]

Best Short Story - "The Nine Billion Names of God" by Arthur C. Clarke

I didn't knew this story ever won an Hugo! One of Clarke's best. But then again, every self-respecting sci-fi fan has readed this one.

Re:Question

[WuphonsReach]

Lois McMaster Bujold and C.J. Cherryh's stuff is almost *always* worth reading.

Bujold's best stuff is in the Vorkosigan universe (something like 10+ books). The high point of the series is probably Civil Campaign, which won't make sense unless you've read at least a few of the prior ones and understand the underpinnings.

Cherryh is very prolific. Best are the Faded Sun trilogy, and the 4 or 5 books in the Chanur universe. Or the Foreigner series (6 books now) which is a great book dealing with how humans and aliens get along (not well...). She also writes some good fantasy novels and series.

Re:Question

[aka-ed]

Ah...couldn't remember the title, but Sandman was it, pressed to my hand by a friend. Since you were able to single it out, perhaps his other works are worth a look...

Re:Question

[Txiasaeia]

Finished reading The Prestige a few months ago, which was a *terrific* book, although not the sort of SF you're probably expecting - sorta steampunk, but more low-tech than the Difference Engine. Well worth your time, though. As other people have mentioned, he's not exactly a new writer (shows you how much I know!) but he's still very interesting.

The Extremes is also an interesting book about virtual reality & worlds within worlds, but my favourite of the two is still the Prestige.

Hu?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, Hugo?

Would it be so hard to explain in one little sentence what those award are about?

Re:Hu?

[Raul654]

Would it be so hard to explain in one little sentence what those award are about?

One little sentence :)

Re:Hu?

[FuzzzyLogik]

You know....

Wikipedia != Authoritative

;)

Re:Hu?

[twenty-exty-six]

The Hugo Award is given every year for the best science fiction or fantasy stories of the previous year, and for related areas in fandom, art and dramatic presentation.

Re:Hu?

[Abberlaine]

They're, like, the Oscars of sci-fi. They're pretty popular; last year, I went out to my local Chapters branch to pick up a copy of Robert J. Sawyer's "Homonids", a recent Hugo Award winner. It turns out that a few days prior, some nutter had been to every major Chapters location in the city and had bought out their entire stock of the book. As the clerk helping me out sighed, "The Hugo Awards make people do strange things."

Re:Hu?

[DragonMagic]

That would be why it was linked in the story? I assumed people who didn't know would easily find info about all three areas of interest through the hyperlinks.

Re:Hu?

[samantha]

What, you are google-illiterate and expect to be spoon-fed everything?

Re:Hu?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're pretty popular

Maybe in comparison to a colonoscopy, but otherwise, not.

Re:Hu?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hugo Gernsback, who founded "Amazing Stories" in 1926, was arguably the most important Editor in Science Fiction History, although John Campbell is neck-and-neck with Hugo, and has his own award, which is co-presented with the Hugo at the same World Science Fiction Conventions. It's instructive to put The Hugo Awards in context with all the other awards given to Science Fiction, Fantasy, Horror and related books, stories, and films of 2003, and other years of the decade. See: Best Books of 2003 although that page loads slowly, as it reviews many nominated books, short fiction, films, TV and other things of our decade. It's embedded in a site that comes up in the Top 5 according to Google and Yahoo for keyword "science fiction."

Ceren wins award for hottest geek babe!

[Anonymous Coward]

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Please show your support for Ceren in this poll of Geek Babes!

Is it any wonder people think Linux users are a bunch of flaming homosexuals when its fronted by obviously gay losers like these?! BSD has a mascot who leaves us in no doubt that this is the OS for real men! If Linux had more hot chicks and gorgeous babes then maybe it would be able to compete with BSD! Hell this girl should be a model!

Linux is a joke as long as it continues to lack sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she excite you? I know this little hottie puts me in need of a cold shower! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little minx. Don't you wish the guy in this pic was you? Are you telling me you wouldn't like to get your hands on this ass?! Wouldn't this just make your Christmas?! Yes doctor, this uber babe definitely gets my pulse racing! Oh how I envy the lucky girl in this shot! Linux has nothing that can possibly compete. Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin or a gay looking goat! Wouldn't this be more liklely to influence your choice of OS?

With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you could have people queuing up to buy open source products. Could you really refuse to buy a copy of BSD if she told you to? Personally I know I would give my right arm to get this close to such a divine beauty!

Don't be a fag! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today!

$Id: ceren.html,v 9.0 2004/08/01 16:01:34 ceren_rocks Exp $

Please visit

[Anonymous Coward]

Spankeys
Admin there needs something to do this weekend. Plus their such idiots

2003 eh

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's do the timewarp again ...

I love my job

[W32.Klez.A]

I'm a lonely office worker at the fourth floor of the Hampton-Macy building in Burgess Square. Most of the time I just stare at documents with all manner of boring graphs, charts, line-items, and signatures. I can't even tell you what I do for a living.

My work is quite possibly my most favorite thing in the whole wide world. I'll tell you why.

Each day I bring with me to my place of employment a small bottle. This bottle is white and opaque and has slight graphite marks on it from being in my briefcase, next to my seven No. 2 pencils. Inside this bottle is a number of gelatin caps with various substances inside.

I always arrive at work early. This gives me the advantage of appearing to be a model employee. I always stay later than him, as well, shuffling along with my game of solitaire. Sometimes I bring him lunch, which is usually the Cold Cut Trio from Subway, or a box of Vegetable Lo Mein from the Asian place accross the street. My supervisor never even inspects my work.

It's about 7:30 AM and I make my way to the coffee maker to brew fresh coffee for the whole office. I also place a few capsules in the mass of coffee grounds in the filter. These capsules have various things like my own semen and feces in them. Dehydrated and concentrated, of course. Everyone loves my coffee.

I also place dilute amounts of bleach in the water cooler. Sometimes I put sugar in it, too.

It's very gratifying to watch these very boring people slowly take more sick days. I've started to take a few every now and then, as to not appear suspicious. Nobody completely suspects anything yet. I've been doing this off and on for the last nine months, as to keep them all in a constant state of sickness and poisoning. I keep detailed logs, when I can, of each and every one of their sick days. I create Excel spreadsheets and generate charts from them based on this data. I'm thinking about creating an internet website detailing these results, anonymously. I'm sure somebody would find this information useful. Perhaps to exceed my own scientific techniques and perform a more thorough study. When that day comes I will be pleased.

Maybe . . .

[ir0b0t]

Farenheit 451 should have been renominated this year. Half a century later, and it still resonates --- maybe moreso except that I was not alive in 1953 to compare.

Re:Maybe . . .

[gl4ss]

mods.. maybe you should read? couple of comments up

***********
The 1953 Retrospective Hugo Award Winners
*
Best Novel - Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
Best Novella - "A Case of Conscience" by James Blish
Best Novelette - "Earthman, Come Home" by James Blish
*

oh and to add something new.. the nominees for best novel:**Best Novel of 1953 (113 ballots)

* The Caves of Steel -- Isaac Asimov (Galaxy, Oct.-Dec. 1953)
* Fahrenheit 451 -- Ray Bradbury (Ballantine)
* Childhood's End -- Arthur C. Clarke (Ballantine)
* Mission of Gravity -- Hal Clement (Astounding, April-July 1953)
* More than Human -- Theodore Sturgeon (Ballantine)
***

Re:Maybe . . .

[pjay_dml]

What I found amazing in Fahrenheit451 was the prediction of soap operas. Remember those talking walls that shared stories and emotions, and that everyone became addicted to?

Re:Maybe . . .

[aka-ed]

Soap operas originated during the radio era; current soap The Guiding Light just celebrated its 52nd year on air.

Re:Maybe . . .

[CaptainAvatar]

Well then, looks like 1953 is the most recent year for which I've managed to read all the Hugo best novel nominees ... *sigh*

LOTR

[boijames]

Sigh.. Maybe I'm one in a millon, but chrikey, Why Wont LOTR Die Already?

Re:LOTR

[Limburgher]

See, it's got this ring, and while it's wearing it, it's damn near invincible.

Re:LOTR

[crashfrog]

Because it's good, maybe?

What are you asking for, exactly? Clearly the story has a resounding appeal to thousands of readers, if not more. I imagine it'd be nice for your ego if they all abandoned their own preferences and adopted yours, which, I'm sure are way more informed and well-reasoned to you.

You'll have to pardon the others, though, if they don't quite see it that way.

Re:LOTR

[Anonymous Coward]

So if he thinks LOTR sucks, that's automatically his "ego"? Gratuitous ad hominem...

Re:LOTR

[crashfrog]

So if he thinks LOTR sucks, that's automatically his "ego"?

Perhaps you didn't read my post closely enough. Certainly your response bears no relation to it.

He's free to think that LOTR sucks. Where the ego comes into it is, he obviously thinks we all should agree.

Well deserved recognition for Emerald City

[COBOLgrrl]

My first WorldCon was San Jose in 2002. I was lucky enough to have a friend there who could show me the ropes - Cheryl Morgan, editor of Emerald City. If you're not familiar with her work, check out www.emcit.com. Her reviews are honest (often brutally so) and entertaining.

Re:Well deserved recognition for Emerald City

[smaug195]

Cheryl is absolutely wonderful and one of the few reasons I go to BASFA meetings. In fact the best Fan Artist Frank Wu is also a regular attendee.

Re:Well deserved recognition for Emerald City

[MtViewGuy]

Oh wow! A person I know from BASFA actually winning a Hugo? Congratulations to Cheryl Morgan! (big thumbs up)

Singularity Sky

[BigHungryJoe]

I liked Singularity Sky (on the Best Novel list). Just good scifi reading. The endless descriptions of military procedure and protocol did get a bit tiring.

I'm looking forward to Iron Sunrise but not enough to buy it in hardcover.

Typo

[xIcemanx]

Shouldn't the link read "for 2004"?

Re:Typo - not

[cool_st_elizabeth]

No, these would be awards for books and stories published during calendar 2003. Then you have nominations, then voting and vote-counting, so it's September of the next year before the winners are announced.

Gardner DozoisGardner DozoisGardner Dozois

[UncleBiggims]

Gardner rules the Hugo Awards! How many does this make for him now? 15? 16? I wonder if his success encourages or discourages others in his field.

Re:Gardner DozoisGardner DozoisGardner Dozois

[Anonymous Coward]

This may no longer be an issue at next year's awards.
Earlier this year, Dozois stepped down as editor of Asimov's.
He will apparently continue editing the annual "Year's Best Science Fiction" compendium, however.

Re:Gardner DozoisGardner DozoisGardner Dozois

[Tony Towers]

Gardner has 13 Hugos, which is still somewhat short of Dave Langford's 21. Both of them must have enormously long mantelpices to fit all those rocket ships, though!

Re:Gardner DozoisGardner DozoisGardner Dozois

[Tony Towers]

OK, so I can't count. With this year's awards Gardner Dozois has 14, and Dave Langford 22. D'oh!

Last Night....

[Dr Reducto]

Last night some kid at the LAN party I was at came in at around 11 and was like: My dad won a Hugo!! And I asked him about it, and apparently his dad wrote Legions in Time, which is apparently about a man and woman who travel through the galaxy or alternate worlds or something. I guess good luck to that kids dad, and good luck to all those considered and those who won.

Re:Last Night....

[Frequency Domain]

Last night some kid at the LAN party I was at came in at around 11 and was like: My dad won a Hugo!!

Holy guacamole, this is mind boggling! Geeks can reproduce?!?!

Re:Last Night....

[the_weasel]

Only the successful ones.

Re:Last Night....

[Anonymous Coward]

Be sure to pass on Congratulations from those of us on Slashdot :)

You're one degree from a Hugo Award :)

(Now I am two degrees removed from a Hugo Award winner... could this be the next "Kevin Bacon/Six Degrees of Separation" game?)

Now all we need is for someone to karma whore for Informative and post a small world theory link...

the only thing....

[Anonymous Coward]

.... I find amusing about this article is the NVIDIA add.

On the nVIDIA web site, following the add's link:

"A test performed by NVIDIA computer security experts found that a PC was detected and hacked within 15 minutes of being connected to a standard high-speed DSL broadband Internet connection. Within 24 hours, hackers loaded over 1,000 songs files using the PC's hard disk space as a storage device. This test illustrates how quickly hackers can steal your passwords and gain access to sensitive information such as your bank account."

I bet'ya all the hackers in the world are running after DSL connected PCs to use their storage space and system as digital jukeboxes...

I should have thought of it before!! A great way to get MP3s and not risk being sued by the RIAA.

2003 or 2004

[Gerr]

The first sentence in the post mentions 2003, but the link leads to the 2004 awards (the title of the article says 2004, too). Could an editor fix the mistake?

Re:2003 or 2004

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a mistake. The awards each year honor works created the previous year, thus the 2004 Awards are for works published in 2003.

Re:2003 or 2004

[GodOfNothing]

Obviously not

Just found link for vernors story:

[imsabbel]

http://www.analogsf.com/0406/cookiemonster.shtml

Yeah. Finally a topic where my sig fits :)

Re:Just found link for vernors story:

[Stinking Pig]

sweet sig! I love that book.

For those who don't get it, it's from A Deepness In The Sky. Here's the Amazon.

Cory Doctorow?

[The Mentalist]

I find it amazing that Cory hasn't been able to nominate himself and win Hugo. That guy is a huge hack when it comes to writing (his writing resembles ads that you'd find on a paper tray insert at MacDonald's) but he's an amazing self-promoter. No one I have ever met can hype himself up like Cory! No one!

So, anyone know why he hasn't "won" it yet?

Re:Cory Doctorow?

[scanner_darkly]

I don't think you understand, that's the way of things when it comes to writing in genre. You see, you show up on the scene, and the person who starts being successful is the one who is the most aggressive about self-promoting. They may or may not have talent, but the self-promoting will likely ruffle a few feathers. Whether or not said aggressive self-promoter has talent, they will be labeled as not having any talent. Skip ten years. By now this self-promoter has been on the scene for a long time, and new people are starting to come in and be interested in the field. The new people don't have a point of reference, so they assume that when "everyone is talking about Author X because Author X is so talented" that a) everyone actually is talking about author X, and that author x is talented. Whether or not this author actually has any talent, the author in question will be understood now as being talented. And so it goes. There is a message in here, somewhere, and not just about Cory Doctorow or China Mievelle or any other 'hot new' writer recently. I just haven't been able to figure out what that message is.

Ilium.

[Visceral Monkey]

Ilium should have won. :(

Easily the best book of the year in IMHO. Fantasy books need their own award, I'm a tad tired of them showing up in the Hugo awards.

Re:Ilium.

[geek]

Illium was good but I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as Hyperion. The up coming Olympus might change my mind. My problem with Illium is that you just can't see exactly where it's going.

Re:Ilium.

[Hobbex]

My problem with Illium is that you just can't see exactly where it's going.

Yeah, I always hate that in a book!

Re:Ilium.

[geek]

A book needs direction. Surprise is great but when you have no character development to speak of, are off on another planet and in an incredibly different atmosphere a reader needs something to keep them interested. Illium contains no direction, no direction = no anticipation.

Re:Ilium.

[cmpalmer]

Illium is one of those books that tosses off ideas in a few pages that most authors would write entire books about. I, too, would like to have some idea where it is going, but I enjoyed more than just about anything I've read in a while.

Hyperion is one of my favorite books, despite the fact that I didn't really care for the series as a whole. Strangely enough, I think I would like Hyperion just fine by itself without the rest of the series, even though it doesn't "end".

Re:Ilium.

[geek]

Hyperion is one of my favorites also. I didn't like the rest of the series even though you don't find out what happens until the end of Fall of Hyperion.

Hyperion was amazing in that it's 8 stories in one. The seven pilgrims plus the main plot. I was just astounded by the priests story, took me by total surprise. The others were almost as good.

Re:Ilium.

[Anonymous Coward]

Was that a troll? You saw where Hyperion was going?

Comments

[Raul654]

(Full disclosure - I'm a wikipedia admin, and I'm the one who chooses the main page featured articles) -- The study that guy did was fishy - he had a very low sample size (5), a very short timeframe (1 week), and the articles he picked are very, very low traffic (several of them had =3 edits each).

Re:Comments

[FuzzzyLogik]

lol i was just joking around man :) i agree with you.. there's no real easy way to test that kind of information and all. i still use it as a good way to start a report or something ... i don't take a lot of slashdot articles to heart they tend to be fairly skewed one way or the other

Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[ta_relax]

From FAQ of Hugo awards:
"Aren't Hugos just for Science Fiction?
Have you ever tried to define science fiction? ..."It's all fantasy," he proclaimed. "Science fiction is fantasy you can convince yourself might happen. ...."

I like, for example, LoTR as much as anyone else and find it one of the best trilogies ever (as novels). But, what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science? If science or scientific methodology is not part of the story then why should it be eligible for this award? What happened to the heritage of Asimov, Lem, Dick, Heinlein, Clarke, and others?
Has popular themes of Star Wars and Star Trek reduced Sci-Fi to mere fantasy now?

As a scientist myself, I still believe that Sci-Fi is more than simple fantasy. It is -to me- exploration of possibilities for humanity's future (and past), scientific developments, and their effects. Believe me, in today's incredible speed of scientific progress we need Sci-Fi in this sense more than ever.

I am sure the winner is a wonderful novel but...

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[geek]

Its scifi OR fantasy according to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_award

So obviously LotR qualifies. What bothers me is the best selling books on Earth right now (HP series) aren't on the list.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Artifakt]

Part of this is a pragmatic attitude on the part of fandom, that has developed into a tradition, particulary with the film Hugos.
For many given years, particularly pre Starwars era, Hollywood didn't release any SF movies, not just any GOOD Sf, but any, period. So it quickly became a case of either giving the award to a fantasy film or nobody, or of picking between a good fantasy film and a lousy SF film. The earlier era was mostly "It's Fantasy or Nothing this year", while the post Starwars era was the "Do I choose Good Fantasy or Bad SF" era, and unfortunately often remains so to this day.
This is also a case of 50's era SF writers tending to also do fantasy, so they weren't opposed to broadening the awards (Heinlein's Glory Road and Magic, Inc., Poul Anderson's Operation Chaos, Azimov's Azaziel stories, and Blish's Black Easter all come to mind as possibly Hugo worthy in their time.).
Of the authors you cite, only Lem and Dick didn't openly call any of their own works fantasy in the sources I've seen so far, and a lot of people would argue for at least P K Dick being a fantasiast at times (Is valis SF?).

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[pk2000]

Hugo Award lost some of its credibility for me when Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J. K. Rowling won the Best Novel in 2001. *gringe*

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[gl4ss]

best term for explaining 'hard' scifi I've ran into is "speculative fiction".

(of course, this drops most of the really popular scifi right out of it..)

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Scrameustache]

I'm peeved at the blending that sci-fi and fantasy get too, but, they are linked, for good or ill.

I like, for example, LoTR as much as anyone else and find it one of the best trilogies ever (as novels). But, what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science?

Magic: Any technology, sufficiently advanced, yadiyadiyada.

Castles: Engineering is fun!

Dragons: When I read LOTR, the descriptions of the Dark Rider's flying mount was, to me, clearly the description of a mutated pterodactyl. The movie's image was an adaptation of a glorious illustration that, as artistically adept as it was, did not really follow the book's description. I was pissed at first, but seeing them move made me accept them with joy.
There is talk that our legends of giants and dragons might have their origins in prehistoric people discovering dinosaur fossils and drawing conclusions: There are/were huge monsters! From there you build up with some flourish as generations go by, and they become more and more fantastic.

I do wish that sci-fi and fantasy weren't all lumped in one big mess like that, but they are not completely independant of one another, so I can live with it.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Stinking Pig]

I love SciFi, but honestly, heritage? Asimov, Dick, Heinlein & Clarke were all hobbled by their inability to write as well as they thought. I haven't read Lem. The four I have read wrote some really interesting stories and have some very good ideas, but characterization and plotting are weak and their novels generally limp along. Fantasy on the other hand typically focuses more on the writing and less on the magic.

So what should the Hugo judge, science or fiction? I think a blend of both. Take Robert Forward for instance, he writes technically solid hard science books that absolutely stink, with characters that might as well be Barbie and Ken dolls (and plenty of Heinlein/Clarke style gratuitous sex). They sure do explore our scientific options, as do Clarke's, but they're painful to read. Flipside, Roger Zelazny's _Lord of Light_ is mostly characterization and plot, with the science barely considered at all. Which one is more fun and more inspiring to read? And is _Lord of Light_ even a scifi book, or more of a fantasy book? It certainly blurs the line.

Vernor Vinge wins a Hugo practically every time he turns around, because he can write well and think scientifically. I greatly prefer reading him and have reread most of his books because they're so damned good.

Just some thoughts, really. I don't think LoTR really deserves a Hugo either, as much as I like it, but it looks to me like it's WETA and Peter Jackson getting the awards here, not Tolkein.

Re: Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Black Parrot]

> But, what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science?

What do FTL travel and most of the other familiar trappings of SF have to do with science?

I suspect the biggest difference between SF and Fantasy is the window dressing. It's no accident that there's so much overlap in their respective sets of readers.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[harlows_monkeys]

Take Robert Forward for instance, he writes...

That should be "he wrote". He died Sept 21, 2002.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[jsebrech]

If science or scientific methodology is not part of the story then why should it be eligible for this award? What happened to the heritage of Asimov, Lem, Dick, Heinlein, Clarke, and others?

I guess we're approaching the singularity and are finally becoming aware that it exists, and therefore no longer assume the future will look like the present, only with higher tech, and so put much higher believability requirements on pure sci-fi.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Saeger]

But, what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science?

Beyond Arthur C. Clarks famous quote? Not much.

I love SciFi because it's a technological/societal projection of what MIGHT happen in the future within the confines of our laws of physics. All of it ultimately leading up to our nearing Singularity.

In order for me to suspend my disbelief of the "wizards, ogres, and elves, oh my!" in Fantasy, I have to tell myself that this too is possible ... albeit within a very good matrix-like VR simulation where we can write our own laws of physics.

--

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[mooingyak]

HP got a Hugo in 2001 (Goblet of Fire)

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[soyuz_2]

What happened to the heritage of Asimov...

this! That's right

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Anonymous Coward]

you cant enjoy a good fantasy story without the crutch of a matrix computer to back it up? that is just plain pathetic and i pity you nonexistant imagination

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Our Man In Redmond]

The Hugos are voted on by the attendees of that year's World Science Fiction Convention. So, if you don't like the nominees or winners, you can get in on changing the outcome by signing up for this year's Worldcon ("this year" in Worldcon terms being defined as "roughly from Labor Day to Labor Day"). Here is the link for more information.

Next year's Worldcon is being held in Glasgow. Joining costs £30 if you just want to vote, or £95 if you want to attend. Those prices are likely to go up as next year's Worldcon gets closer.

Keep in mind that the awards are geared toward science fiction rather than fantasy, and the awards for novel, novella, novelette and short story tend to bear that out. The Dramatic Presentation award is more of a mixed bag. Over the last few years LotR and episodes of Babylon-5 and Star Trek:TNG have shared the award with movies such as Contact, GalaxyGuest and, oddly enough, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Keep also in mind that real excellence in science fiction on the screen, large or small, is often hard to find.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[hoggoth]

> what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science?

I don't disagree with your point about classifying science-fiction, but here's an interesting thought:

Keep in mind that throughout history (especially recent history) we continually strive to INVENT those ideas that strike us as particularly interesting. For example, the Submarine (Jules Verne), Satellites, etc. I have no doubt that in the future we will continue to work to make our future resemble our fiction. Imagine now a distant future where nearly anything is possible through genetic engineering and molecular manipulation. Can you imagine that world WITHOUT fantasy-fanboys creating magic, dragons, and castles?

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Anonymous Coward]

The movie's image was an adaptation of a glorious illustration that, as artistically adept as it was, did not really follow the book's description. I was pissed at first, but seeing them move made me accept them with joy.

You think so? I thought the creatures in the movie were pretty much perfect - I always had the image of a dragon-like creature, a winged serpent.

In any case, the movie creature was most likely based off one of John Howe's paintings, of a Nazgul circling around the Barad-Dur. He and Alan Lee were heavily involved in the visual design of the film, so it's not surprising to see some of the scenes coming straight from their illustrations.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[nightweaver]

Fantasy is Sci-Fi though... they just replace every occurence of something which could be explained as science as 'magic'. What's so different about fantasy as compared to some of the more fantastic science fiction stories?

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Gumshoe]

I like, for example, LoTR as much as anyone else and find it one of the best trilogies ever (as novels). But, what has magic, dragons, castles etc. to do with science?

I'm prepared to accept fantasy under the SF umbrella if only to keep the peace but I have to ask what "Gollum's accaptance speech" has got to do with SF or Fantasy. Technically impressive I suppose but as far as I can remember it was just a foul-mouthed tirade intended to amuse the MTV audience. No new ideas or anything worth discussing, I'm left baffled as to why it was even nominated.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[GnarlyNome]

Agreed, but SF seems to have split. the Hard Stuff eg: Analog
and the soft stuff LoTR etc. There are good and bad examples of both

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[WuphonsReach]

So what should the Hugo judge, science or fiction?

And as numerous Hollywood "fizzles" have shown... all the special effects (or hard science in Sci-Fi) is useless if you don't have a good story (or tell it badly).

The best Sci-Fi in my book is stuff that puts the people ahead of the Sci-Fi. Where the science is merely a hook to draw you in and the futuristic universe is just a backdrop against which the tale plays out against.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I for one have no trouble at all enjoying a Robert Forward book, since they are so full of interesting scientific speculation and ideas. I can get characterization anywhere, but without the logical construction of amazing ideas, the right side of my brain gets bored.

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[IckySplat]

Wizards?

How about GM humans to give us
Dwarfs, elves, Ogre's /. Has already given us trolls :)

Hmmm... Not sure what you could use to build dragons or trents.

It is possible to build a Fantasy style future
using SF technology.
Didn't Ursula Le Guin do a series called 'Dragon rider' which ran along these lines.

David Brin did a book called 'The Practice Effect' which also mixed the SF & Fantasy genre quite well.

I wonder what other Fantasy creature a good
gene mechanic could build us?

Re:Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

[kastandlee]

I'm left baffled as to why it was even nominated.

Practically, speaking, because a bunch of members of the Worldcon liked it.

Kevin Standlee

Harry Potter OotP

[geek]

I know people will bash this but why wasn't OotP on the list? It was a great book, much better than the ones that won and it out sold them by like an order of magnittude.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Gallowsgod]

Not commenting on whether the latest Harry Potter book should have been on the list or not, I cannot see that sales figures should be a reason for giving a book an award.
High sales figures != quality

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[abb3w]

I know people will bash this but why wasn't OotP on the list?

Ummm... because the other books got more nominations? I'd also ask in what sense you think that "Order of the Phoenix" was "better". In sales? Largely irrelevant to whether or not the book is crap, as Ludlum has demonstrated for years. In particular, the character development of Paladin of Souls make it a much more interesting read for the adolescent-or-older audience, although it certainly wouldn't appeal to the youngest edge of Harry Potter's fans.

Have you actually read all of the nominees? I missed the Sawyer book, but caught the others... including the Potter you suggested. (Trust the librarian; the librarian is your freind.) I admit, while Lois Bujold's overtaking Heinlein for "Most Hugos for Best Novel" says more about how bad the competition is lately than how good she is, she is a good writer. OotP was (IMHO) not quite so stellar as some of the previous books in the series, and not up to the quality level of those nominated competitors that I read, so it's not too suprising it didn't get nominated.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Xoro]

OoTP was lame. It was pedantic, obvious and linear.

The earlier volumes were filled with switchbacks and cul-de-sacs, inviting the reader to explore a detailed and exciting world with his own intelligence. The latest was just a long harrangue about a mean teacher.

Oh, and it probably outsold the winner by far more than one order of magnitude.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[geek]

" I'd also ask in what sense you think that "Order of the Phoenix" was "better". In sales?"

It's popular for a reason. People don't generally buy crap, especially when the books sold for almost 30$ when released. Sales reflect quality in books, perhaps not in movies or computer operating systems, but in books, people buy what they like. Obviously when the sales don't reflect the nominations, the ones doing the nominating have a bias.

"Have you actually read all of the nominees?"

Most yes. I found them dull, hashed out versions of older novels. Illium was semi original but hardly award winning.

"OotP was (IMHO) not quite so stellar as some of the previous books in the series, and not up to the quality level of those nominated competitors that I read, so it's not too suprising it didn't get nominated."

Clearly subjective, however as an english major myself I found the writing and character development top notch. It's a fantastic book, part of a fantastic series. I have a hard time seeing how anyone could nominate, for instance, Illium over OotP. Perhaps J.K. is becoming a victim of her own success. There is a growing hatred towards the books by the envious.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Dr. Wu]

Yeah!!!

And why aren't movies like The Day After Tomorrow or Spiderman 2 ever nominated for an Oscar.

It's a conspiracy, I tell you.

Dr. Wu
"Too much style without substance, too much stuff without style"

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[shalla]

Sales reflect quality in books, perhaps not in movies or computer operating systems, but in books, people buy what they like. Obviously when the sales don't reflect the nominations, the ones doing the nominating have a bias.

Which explains why romance books sell so well. They're incredibly well written.

Once you've finished laughing over the above, you can drop the "What sells well is well written" logic. The Da Vinci Code sold well and was interesting, but frankly had a lot of plot and character problems. I firmly believe Robert Jordan's work is hideous, yet it still sells well. Like movies, quality is not necessarily about what's popular, but about plot, style, character development, mood, and much more.

Having read most of the nominated books and all the Harry Potter books, I would have voted for either Ilium or Paladin of Souls. The fifth Potter book was not as well written as previous ones in the series, and in fact the first 200 pages were rather like beating my head against a wall repeatedly. There's no way it deserved a nomination in this competition, no matter how much I like Rowlings' writing and the Potter series.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[geek]

"Which explains why romance books sell so well. They're incredibly well written."

Actually they don't sell well. One old lady buys it and passes it around to all her friends. I stand by my original statement despite your obviously uneducated and rather ignorant if not downright rude and trollish response.

I'll never understand why people like you bother posting here when all you do is name call and start shit with people. You contribute nothing.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Mycroft_VIII]

Sorry, but his post wasn't trollish. It simply pointed out the fallacy in the post above it through a form of reduction to absurdity and you took it as a personal attack and flamed.
Popularity does not equate to quality. It often equates to least offensive to largest group, or even best marketing. There is also the phenomenon of 'fad' or simular if two of your peers do somthing you do it also, then peer 4 sees this and so on.

Mycroft

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[WuphonsReach]

I know people will bash this but why wasn't OotP on the list? It was a great book, much better than the ones that won and it out sold them by like an order of magnittude.

Mmmm, I *like* the HP series, but OotP wasn't really that great of a story (book #4 was much better). It was rather stilted in places and pacing. Book #4 starts with the World Cup and builds up to a big climax at the end in the Cemetary. Just about *anything* would be tough to follow that and book #5 is more of a "putting the pieces in place for #6/#7".

(I was particular dissapointed with the death, because in book #5 they were not a nice character, always on edge, which killed off any nice feelings that I had gained towards them in book #4. Then it felt like it was just kind of shoved in there in the middle of the big fight at the end. Almost as if the author needed a bigger climax then book #4, and was out of ideas of how to top it.)

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Anonymous Coward]

I know people will bash this but why wasn't OotP on the list?

Honestly, having read the first book, I can't understand how grown-up people can possibly tolerate them. Didn't you even *notice* any of the stupid plot holes? The bad writing? The characters acting like retards for the entire length of the book?

It's simply a fad, end of story. And now the fad is ending. Get over it.

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Anonymous Coward]

People don't generally buy crap

And your degree in economics is from...?

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[shalla]

I stand by my original statement despite your obviously uneducated and rather ignorant if not downright rude and trollish response.

"More than 2,000 romance titles are released every year, and the genre generates more than half (55%) of all paperback fiction sales in America. Add hardbacks to the mix and romance still represents a third (35%) of all fiction. Take it one step farther to consider the entire bookstore -- non-fiction included -- and romance novels represent 18% of all books sold." Taken from the RWA Web site.

I do apologize if you felt my post was rude, but the information in it was good (as shown by the above statistics). I'm neither uneducated nor ignorant, and in fact I work as a librarian and have an excellent grasp of what books my patrons are requesting. And frankly, we get a LOT of requests for romances regardless of the socioeconomic class of patrons (though heavily read by women and not men).

If you're going to post something which says "Sales equates to quality in books," then expect people to refute that. I did use strong language, but I never made a personal attack or name called. I poked at your reasoning and suggested it was flawed, and I disagreed with your comment that OotP was a wonderful book. I'm sorry you took that as "starting shit" with you. It was intended more in the vein of jolting you into considering another point of view based on using an example that did not fit your statement.

So are we clear now?

Re:Harry Potter OotP

[Flamingo Montoya]

Hugo Voters have a long memory.

When "Goblet of Fire" won, neither Rowling or her publishers deemed the award important enough to warrant sending someone to accept it.

I believe the failure to nominate OotP can be traced to that perceived "snub."

Gollum MTV Acceptance Video

[thue]

For the lazy, here is a link to the video.

http://www.theonering.net/staticnews/1054890864.ht ml

Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[Animats]

Lois Bujold's best work is the Lord Vorkosigan series. She won a Hugo for one of those in 1992. But she has to pay the rent, so she cranks out those fantasy novels. The Vorkosigan series is too complex and unsettling for many readers.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[JakiChan]

I really doubt it is to "pay the rent". I think she just got tired of of the Vorkosigan universe and decided to try something else and it's been sucessful too. I happen to like the Chalion novels - I can't see how she could have a characters like Ista or Caz in the Vorkosigan novels...

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[pjay_dml]

Paying rent is the biggest problem a writer/artist will have. Especially if unknown and/or they produce, what could be regarded as progressive art.

It is only sad, that many fans don't seem able to understand this part.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[abb3w]

Lois Bujold's best work is the Lord Vorkosigan series. She won a Hugo for one of those in 1992.

The Vor Game, published 1991. Also, Barrayar, 1992; and Mirror Dance, 1995.

But she has to pay the rent, so she cranks out those fantasy novels.

Err... actually, it may also be a function of her having a nifty idea that just won't fit into the Vorkosigan series, such as the marriage ride from "Curse of Challion", inspired by an actual event in Spanish history. Her latest Vorkosigan book was also relatively weak (to praise with faint damns); she may just need some time to play with new toys for a bit, and let the inspiration build up.

The Vorkosigan series is too complex and unsettling for many readers.

I'll agree. When I first bought "Mirror Dance", I returned it to the bookstore. I explained it was good, but the scenes with Baron Ryoval were just a little too much for me at the time. Overall, though, the Vorkosigan series is excellent light space opera, with some deep social thought behind the scenery.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[DaRat]

Hardly wasting her time. As much as I like the Vorkosigan series, the series is getting a bit long in the tooth. I think that part of the reason that she is writing the fantasy novels is to avoid having to kill of Aral (which will happen one of these days).

In any case, she writes when someone contracts her to write a novel *or* she has enough saved up to take a chance (which is what happened with the first of the Chalion series).

I'm glad that she is writing in different worlds and bringing her gift for words to them.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[RickHunter]

Actually, from what she's said on her official mailing list, she can get more money from doing another Vorkosigan book. Yes, folks, not all fantasy writers are shills in it for the money. However, she can't see any direction to take it in that she wants to write, Miles and kids novels being very much out. She thinks Miles' story came to a natural end in Diplomatic Immunity, with the birth of his children, which is good. Then she got some ideas for the Five Gods universe and it wound up capturing her interest more.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[Anonymous Coward]

I love the Vorkosigan series. But I think that she's extracted all of the gold from that mine. I can fully understand the need to move on.

Her fantasy work doesn't do it for me. They don't keep my interest, so I find them difficult to finish. Perhaps I need more action and adventure than some of her other readers.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[hobit]

I don't know if you read the Paladin of Souls but I'd claim her two novels in that fantasy world are better than all but the best of the Vor stuff (of which I am a huge fan).

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[AndroidCat]

She's previously dipped into fantasy with The Spirit Ring. I don't think there's much danger of me not liking whatever she writes about.

Regardless of Aral, Mad Miles has a family now and can't go blasting off quite so randomly.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[Our Man In Redmond]

I submit to you that if her fantasy novels pay the rent, they aren't exactly wasting her time, especially if they give her the time and freedom to create the Vorkosigan series (one of my wife's favorites, by the way).

As an aside, we once met Bujold at a Worldcon. Very nice lady, as I recall.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[ppanon]

The Vor Game, published 1991. Also, Barrayar, 1992; and Mirror Dance, 1995.

You forgot her Hugo and Nebula for the Mountains of Mourning.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[cuz teahan]

I must admit that Curse of Chalion left me rolling my eyes until I just quit on it, but I thought that the Vorkosigan series had pretty well spun out. It was very much a character driven affair, and incredible as Memory was, it seemed to me that Miles' personal conflicts had been pretty much settled. A Civil Affair was just a Soap Opera in Space, and should not me mentioned again, but Diplomatic Immunity had a great scenario - at least one of four very important countries was about to be embarrased, and how Miles handled the situation determined who and how much. Great, tense reading. But the best part of the series was feeling some of Miles' pain and frustration as his life just seemed to get more and more stuck in awkward situations. Now Miles' home life and career are settled, so unless Bujold shakes things up in a major way (like offing the Emporor or starting a war with the Cetagandans) that Miles is just gonna get old and fat from here on out.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, Miles seems to have what he wants out of life, but I still badly want the "Ivan gets married" book.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[pledman]

"Cranks out" is hardly accurate. This Hugo is very well deserved. I am a fan of the Vorkosigan books and I find the Chalion series compares very well with her Vorkosigan work -- it is easy to demonstrate, in fact, that Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls have a significantly higher quality of prose and characterization than her earlier work. Fewer writer's tics, too (he caroled).

The fact is, she is simply maturing as a writer and addressing new themes and scenarios that interest her. I can see how the new stuff would be less appealing to readers who prefer space opera (the Vorkosigan books transcend space-opera anyway). But it is definitely unjust to call the later books inferior because they are not to your taste.

Personally I thought that she should have won a couple years back when Curse lost to American Gods -- her characterization and worldbuilding and riffs on history are of a higher order: Gaiman bit off a big project and accomplished much, but he fell short of his goals and I felt the novel was ultimately disappointing.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[BJH]

I've never read that series - what made you feel it was "too much"?

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[NBarnes]

Given the popularity and renown that Bujold's Vorkosigan series has won, I'd be stunned if she couldn't make significantly more money off another in that series than in anything else she could sign her name to.

[opinionated]If you didn't like A Civil Campaign, you have no romance in your soul.[/opinionated]

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[WuphonsReach]

I'll agree with that. Civil Campaign was a great mix of comedy and drama, probably the best in the series. However, the book that follows, Diplomatic Immunity was a bit of a let down, so maybe she needs to take break from that series.

(I can't put my finger on anything specific with DI, but the CC novel was just oodles of fun to read.)

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[abb3w]

You forgot her Hugo and Nebula for the Mountains of Mourning.

"I remember everything." -- Adept Havelock, from "The Mirror of Her Dreams", by Donaldson.

"Mountains of Mourning" was a novella, not a novel, and the Nebulas are a separate honor from the Hugos. (Hugos are given by amateurs; Nebulas are given by other SF professionals.) It was not forgotten, it was ignored.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[abb3w]

Only that particular book at the time was "too much"; the rest of the series is fine (aside from a very brief scene in "Shards of Honor" that is cut short before getting too nasty). There are some psychologically nasty torture scenes in "Mirror Dance"; nothing overly gory, but the brain games were too much for me at the time. I've since picked up another copy; I blame my ex-GF for having left me now jaded to psychological torture. I would recommend keeping that one away from the more sensitive adolescents. Otherwise, her stuff is fairly serviceable as juvies.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[fgc]

Yup, I spoke to her Friday night and she said pretty much the same thing. It's a damn shame, becuase I'd love to see more of the universe, but I can see her point.

I think that she also like the Five Gods stuff becuase the characters feel more like real people than Mile was becoming, iyswim.

Re:Bujold wasting her time on fantasy

[Tsu-na-mi]

I have to agree, A Civil Campaign is probably her best book. I feel like it showed a level of cohesiveness and pacing a head above the rest of her work. As much as I like the 'earlier' books, some of the later ones (CC and Memory) are just more solid. Diplomatic Immunity did leave the taste of being a book written to appease Vorkosigan fans (such as myself).

I think she has built such a lush world in the Vorkosigan universe. I absolutely love the combination of politics and intrigue, and that's what makes it interesting for me.

--
Dave

Retro Hugos for 1953

[dokhebi]

The Retro Hugos for 1953 are:

Best Novel: Farenheight 451 by Ray Bradbury
Best Novella: "A Case of Consience" by James Blish
Best Novellette: "Earthman, Come Home" by James Blish
Best Short Story : "The Nine Billion Names of God" by Arthur C. Clarke
Best Related Book: Conquest of the Moon by Wernher von Braun, Fred L. Whipple & Willy Ley
Best Professional Editor: John W. Campbell, Jr.
Best Profession Artist: Chesley Bonestell
Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form: The War of the Worlds
Best Fanzine: Slant, Walter Willis, ed.; James White, art editor
Best Fan Writer: Bob Tucker

oops.

[imsabbel]

I realize if you RTFA, there is the link as well...
And just for a moment i believed i was good at using google ;)

Re:Typo - not

[tanguyr]

That's ridiculous! This is science fiction, why can't they announce the winners of next year's competition?

Novella vs. Novelette

[myc_lykaon]

If I look up Novelette in Merriam Webster it links to the definition of Novella. Is this some way of the Hugo staff giving 2 awards for short stories or is it a sideways proof that Sci-Fi as a genre is more suited to 20-30 pages of prose and that when it hits the 300-400 page region it is less saleable to the general public?

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[Anonymous Coward]

"proof that Sci-Fi as a genre is more suited to 20-30 pages of prose and that when it hits the 300-400 page region it is less saleable to the general public?"

no it is the other way around....no one reads short stories anymore...sci-fi or otherwise....300-400 page sci-fi novels on the other hand sell like hotcakes....in fact they sell better then regular fiction....if the NY times actually included sci-fi, fantacy and romance in thier best seller list there would be no regular fiction on thier list.

stendec@gmail.com

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[CJ Hooknose]

myc_lykaon wrote: If I look up Novelette it links to the definition of Novella. Is this some way of the Hugo staff giving 2 awards for short stories?

Nope. I can't find an exact cite here, but in terms of length, short story < novelette < novella < novel.

or is it a sideways proof that Sci-Fi as a genre is more suited to 20-30 pages of prose and that when it hits the 300-400 page region it is less saleable to the general public?

Er, what? You're reaching, and reaching really hard. Novellas are, in general terms, less saleable than novels or short stories. When was the last time you saw a novella on the shelves of your local neighborhood MegaBookStore? If you want an interesting take on why that is, take a look at the afterword to Stephen King's Different Seasons, a collection of 4 novellas. (FWIW, the best 3 of those 4 were made into movies, and the best 2 of those movies ("The Shawshank Redemption" and "Stand By Me") made arseloads of money and got lots of critical and viewer acclaim.)

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[Kent Brewster]

Hugo rules have varied over the years; currently they use the same criteria for as do the Nebula Awards. According to the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, a short story is anything under 7500 words, a novelette is 7500 to 15000 words, a novella is 15000 to 40000 words, and a novel is anything longer than that.

Is there really a measurable difference in artistic impact between a 7499-word short story and a 7501-word novella? Not really. Authors and publishers like those multiple categories, however, since it increases the net number of available awards and therefore the possibility that they might win one.

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[WuphonsReach]

Is this some way of the Hugo staff giving 2 awards for short stories or is it a sideways proof that Sci-Fi as a genre is more suited to 20-30 pages of prose and that when it hits the 300-400 page region it is less saleable to the general public?

No, you're reaching.

The only 20-30 page short stories that I've ever read have either been in a monthly rag or in a book of short stories.

And they're not my preference by far. I much prefer trilogies / quads / decs... most of my bookshelf is filled with series sci-fi/fantasy with a mere armful of solitary books.

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[Finkbug]

"If I look up Novelette in Merriam Webster it links to the definition of Novella."

Better is to check the standards used for the specific award. These have changed over time but for the 2005 Worldcon they will be as follows:

Short Story: 40,000

"[Is this] proof that Sci-Fi as a genre is more suited to 20-30 pages of prose"

Arguably (I'd put the magic length at the long end of the novella) but this...

"and that when it hits the 300-400 page region it is less saleable to the general public?" ...is 100% incorrect. The paying short fiction market is on life support. Novels sell. Heck, series and trilogies are almost mandatory. Few people read for pleasure and most of those that do prefer to mindlessly inhale potato chip equivalents like endless Wheel of Time releases.

SF is effectively the only paying market for the short story and has been for some time. (OK, there's also a bit of mystery and, er, The New Yorker.) Writers most comfortable at the novella length (a past example would be Kate Wilhelm) are doomed: there is no market.

The way to make a living is to write fantasy trilogies. Better, to write movie and game tie-ins. Truly gifted writers like Terry Bisson ("Bears Discover Fire", Talking Man, Pirates of the Universe, www.terrybisson.com) pay the bills writing novelizations of Terminator 2 and The Fifth Element.

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[Anonymous Coward]

While the word count boundary is firmly defined, the meaning of "word" is not. What happens with hypehenated words? What happens with "words" like "a a a a argh...". In the days before word processors there were rules of thumb for counting words quickly. These days people tend to rely on Word to count words for them. No one agrees on what it "right". Thankfully, most of the time it doesn't matter, but note that Neil Gaiman's "A Study in Emerald" was a short story in the Hugos and a novelette in the Locus Awards.

Cheryl Morgan - not wishing to be anonymous but in too much of a hurry to create an account

Re:Novella vs. Novelette

[kastandlee]

Better is to check the standards used for the specific award. These have changed over time but for the 2005 Worldcon they will be as follows:

Either something got trimmed out of your message or it's not displaying on my system. Anyway, the category definitions for written fiction are:

Novel: over 40,000 words

Novella: 15,000 - 40,000 words

Novelette: 7,500 - 15,000 words

Short Story: under 7,500 words

There is also a leeway of 20% or 5,000 words (whichever is smaller) that allows the administrators to move works between categories and implicitly recognizes the difficulty of precisely definining "word" and that people are apt to nominate "borderline" works in either category.

There are four written fiction categories primarily because (IMO) authors want it that way. WSFS has swung back and forth between 2 and 4 written fiction categories, with a series of oscillations between 3 and 4 that happened before I started getting involved in 1984, and has been relatively stable at 4 since then. While it seems pretty easy to distinguish between short story and novel, I personally can't see a whole lot of difference between the two "middle length" categories. Nonetheless, I predict that any attempt to consolidate the two back down to a single category would be met by considerable protests. Many people who never go to WSFS Business Meetings would get up early so that they could appear to dennounce such a proposal. Want to see a bunch of angry authors? Submit a consolidation proposal to next year's WSFS Business Meeting.

The Hugo Awards are regulated by Article 3 of the WSFS Constitution, and while the version I've referenced is a couple years old, it's substantially correct. (I hope we'll have the most recent version online by the end of this year.)

Kevin Standlee

Dan Simmons - Ilium

[Anonymous Coward]

It is a complete travesty that Ilium didn't win. It was by far the most amazing book i've read to date. The only reason they may have overlooked him was because he had won the Huge previously (for Hyperion I believe) and they wanted to allow another author a chance. Ilium is a 550 page tour-de-force for Simmons and remains the most impressive book I've ever read.

[OT], three gmail invites

[Anonymous Coward]

Three replies with the best slogans to advertize/support Linux get a gmail invite. Leave email addy (duh).

Re:[OT], three gmail invites

[Anonymous Coward]

"Linux scares me" - william.gates.iii@microsoft.com

A Study in Emerald

[Bagels]

Neil Gaiman's winning short story is up on his site, if anyone cares to read it. It's quite good, particularly if you're a fan of Sherlock Holmes, Cthulu mythology, or both.

Some thoughts on 3 of the awards...

[CJ Hooknose]

3 of the stories mentioned were in a book called "The Best of Science Fiction 2003". I read that, so here are my tiny capsule reviews:

The Cookie Monster, Vernor Vinge: This is an interesting and technically complex story. It's plausible and well-told, but it really lacks character development IMHO. Guess the competition was thin in the "novella" category or the tech talk swayed the fans.

"Legions in Time", Michael Swanwick: This one rocked. The main characters were believable, the time travel was done well, the bad guys were really evil, and the resolution was... interesting. Only real faults are that the ending feels a bit too much like a Deus Ex Machina, and Nadine was never really explained. Read this one if you can.

"A Study in Emerald", Neil Gaiman: Hmm. Gaiman's a good storyteller, but he bit off more than he could chew here. It's difficult to write a good Sherlock Holmes pastiche, it's difficult to write a good H.P. Lovecraft pastiche, and it's even more difficult to write a story that combines elements of both. Plus, if you haven't read much Sir Arthur Conan Doyle or H.P. Lovecraft, you won't get all the references. Gaiman almost made it work.

yes, good luck to all the winners

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they let us know if it helps them win.

Cookie Monster

[Zorilla]

The Cookie Monster, Vernor Vinge: This is an interesting and technically complex story. It's plausible and well-told, but it really lacks character development IMHO. Guess the competition was thin in the "novella" category or the tech talk swayed the fans.

Yeah, the main character would have been more deeply depicted had he not been busy saying, "COOOOOKIIEE!! MMNOMMNOMMMMNOMMN!" This is even more justification for Nabisco to host his next intervention.

I agree with you

[Anonymous Coward]

Fantasy books need their own award, I'm a tad tired of them showing up in the Hugo awards.

A lot of us agree with you. Some of us have been saying that for 15 years or more. But the people who have influence don't seem to be able to tell the difference between science fiction and fantasy; in their arrogance, they conclude that nobody can tell the difference - that there is no difference.

I'm even more tired of fantasy stories showing up in science fiction anthologies I buy. There should be a warning on the cover. It puts me off buying science fiction anthologies at all.

Re:I agree with you

[Anonymous Coward]

But the people who have influence don't seem to be able to tell the difference between science fiction and fantasy; in their arrogance, they conclude that nobody can tell the difference - that there is no difference.

And what *is* the difference? What's the single feature that lets you say one thing is SF and another is Fantasy? Certainly they're different genres, but many stories have strong elements of both - how do you separate them? I remember reading something a while back that specifically combined the two, matching the SF viewpoint with magic and divine powers.

Alternative opinions

[Anonymous Coward]

The Cookie Monster, Vernor Vinge: This is an interesting and technically complex story. It's plausible and well-told, but it really lacks character development IMHO.

A novella can be good without much character development. Vinge succeeded at what he was trying to do. Good story.

"A Study in Emerald", Neil Gaiman:... if you haven't read much Sir Arthur Conan Doyle or H.P. Lovecraft, you won't get all the references.

I know the Sherlock Holmes canon very well, but haven't read any Lovecraft. I enjoyed the story very much. So missing the Lovecraft references didn't matter. (But you do need to know your Sherlock Holmes.)

I'm shocked!

[Anonymous Coward]

I would have guessed that the Master Storyteller book about how great a writer L. Ron Hubbard was would have placed much higher as fantasy novel of the year. I guess the plot was just too outlandish for most people.

The Cookie Monster

[ansible]

I found the link to 'The Cookie Monster' and read it just now.

Prof. Vinge is my favorite author, and here he delivers the goods again. Bravo! Good show!

I'm used to the idea that a good author (or band, or other artist) usually has just X number of good ideas, and sooner or later, they all run their course. In my experience, 'X' is about 2 novels, or 2 albums, YMMV.

Prof. Vinge, however, has yet to disappoint me. Perhaps that is because his output is relatively low compared to his SF peers. It has been hard to wait years between his novels. But I suppose it is better to do it this way, than to let your quality drop.

Re:The Cookie Monster

[gbnewby]

Yes, Vinge is great! Two required novels (read them in order) are Deepness in the Sky, and A Fire upon the Deep. He is also one of the original cyberpunks, with "True Names." All three are SciFi 101, good for anyone looking for the best of the best.

And I'm not just saying this because he makes liberal use of references to "newbys" in the first book (that was way back when I first heard the term "network newby." Read my username if you don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, that's my name.)

an acceptance speech won????

[Anonymous Coward]

Gollum's Acceptance Speech at the 2003 MTV Movie Awards

Wow, talk about an anti-joss whedon backlash. What did he do to piss them off? If a britney spears video had been nominated instead of gollum it probably would have won. What's the real story behind this?

Besides, that "short form" film was LAME. It was nothing more than a fankwank.

Ok, give us a definition that always works!

[Xtifr]

It's easy to show that fantasy and SF are distinct if you cherry-pick your examples (LoTR), but can you give us a definition of one genre or the other that can be applied to any arbitrary work to decide whether it fits into one or the other categories? I contend you can't.

My standard example is two Zelazny novels: _Lord of Light_ and _Creatures of Light and Darkness_. Both are tales of wars between gods of ancient pantheons (Hindu in the former, Egyptian in the latter). However, in the first, the "gods" are explained as being psychically gifted humans who have managed to take over a lost colony, and who vigorously suppress all use of technology among the colonists, and reserve it for themselves, so they can appear more godlike to their subjects. Their technology is not particularly advanced (airplanes, lasers, telephones) except for the mind-transfer machine that they use to provide "reincarnation" for themselves and the more favored of their subjects. By contrast, in the latter novel, no attempt is made at all to explain these "gods", but the story is full of standard SF elements - spaceships and interstellar travel, computers, cyborgs, etc. I've seen people argue for hours about whether and how either of these books should be categorized.

Magic, Dragons and Castles? How about Psionics, Dragons and Castles? How about Anne McAffrey's Pern series, where the dragons are actually alien creatures native to the planet, and the humans live in castles because they've lost the technology they used to come to the planet? Scientific Methodology? How about Randall Garrett's stories of Lord D'Arcy, whose research magicians are bound by laws as rigorous and scientific as anything propounded by Newton or Einstein, even though they don't happen to apply in our universe.

Asimov, Lem, Dick, Heinlein, Clarke? Aside from Lem (who I'm not too familiar with) and perhaps Dick (whose stuff was considered so outrageous that some people questioned whether any of it could be called SF), there isn't a writer there who hasn't written both SF and Fantasy, and occasionally, the hard-to-classify story on the boundaries between the genres (e.g. Clarke's The Nine Billion Names of God).

By the 1950s, it was clear that the writers were going to treat any attempt to define the boundaries between SF and Fantasy as a challenge. You're fighting a battle that was lost half a century ago, and citing as authorities the very people who carried the other side to victory. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistiguishable from magic" -- A. Clarke.

Myself, like you, I generally prefer SF, insofar as I can distinguish it, but beyond that, I also prefer the rigorous logic and internal consistency of a Lord D'Arcy fantasy over the psuedo-scientific babble of most Hollywood SF. Anyway, Bujold is primarily a science fiction writer, so I find it hard to complain too much when her fantasy novel wins the Hugo. :)

Re:Ok, give us a definition that always works!

[ta_relax]

First, I am not against fantasy genre. Classifying art is a difficult challange which I find unnecessary anyway, unless there is a good reason. An author can write whatever he likes SF, fantasy, poems, and he does not even need to classify his own work.

The reason of my post was this: Once you give this years Hugo award to a fantasy book, then you do not give it to a SF book. There is a hidden opportunity cost involved. Hence, it may be necessary to take the unpleasant task of separating the two genres for the sake of the award. This is also due to the fact that SF should open minds by promoting science and scientific thinking. This is the defining characteristic of the genre (to me at least). It cannot be done if one talks about magicians. Not that anything is wrong with magicians.

I belive, it is possible to distinguish the two genres although both use limitless human imagination.
Any novel which relates/justifies its content to/with science (or scientific method as we know it) or technology should be considered SF. If something is in between (authors use tons of plot devices as they please) then one can look at the majority of the content. Note that,
A. Clarke said "Any sufficiently advanced TECHNOLOGY is indistinguishable from magic".
Bottomline is they do it in all major awards it can be done here, too. There should be a separate award for fantasy.

I am happy that Bujold is primarily a science fiction writer. Congratulations to her for her success!

Re:Ok, give us a definition that always works!

[Xtifr]

"SF should open minds by promoting science and scientific thinking [...] It cannot be done if one talks about magicians."

SF should do all that, but mostly it doesn't (Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything, roughly speaking, is crap). But the point you seem to be missing is that it can be done by talking about magicians! All you need for science is a universe with a consistent, logical, and testable set of rules. They don't have to be the rules of our universe; they just have to be rules that can be inferred with the scientific method, and then you've got a basis for science.

In fact, rigorous scientific fantasy (as opposed to sheer fantasy with SF trappings like Star Wars) has two benefits: it shows that science is a general purpose tool, not just a set of rules we've uncovered about our own universe, and it exposes people to scientific thinking who would ordinarily turn up their noses at science fiction.

That aside, I have to confess that it does bug me a little when a pure fantasy story (e.g. Harry Potter) wins the Hugo. Still, I think it's years too late to change the rules at this point, so I'm just hoping that a science fiction novel will win the World Fantasy Award one of these days[*]! :)

In the mean time, I think the Locus Awards are better awards overall. The Hugo may be better known, but the Hugo voters seem to be a weird and insular crowd. The Locus awards seem to have a much broader base of voters, and best of all, have separate categories for Best SF and Best Fantasy! :)

[*] In fact, the World Fantasy Award in 1981 was given to Gene Wolfe's _Shadow of the Torturer_, which did turn out to be SF, although it wasn't completely clear until its sequels appeared.

Re:Fantasy

[coastwalker]

I'm tired of fantasy showing up in SF bookshops, In fact I'm tired of backward looking costume drama altogether - unless its well researched biography.

I am wondering though, is this fascinaton for "fantasy" all because of generation X or what? Science fiction used to be about possible futures, but in its most popular current form - fantasy - its all about rehashing bad relationships first recorded in Greek plays, mediated through a miasma of fondly remembered mediaeval feudal society. Admittidly I can cope with minor hits from the 80's being recycled by rap artists because rap is the fashion of the times. But if you want a recycled Greek play then Shakespeare and Walt Disney between them have done most of the variations possible in our four dimensional universe. (true there may be space for a few more if the string theory people turn out to be correct about the eleven dimensions swirling round my blinking cursor at this very momment.)

I am forced to conclude however that we hate our current societies so much that the only interesting future we want to read about is mediaeval feudalism. This may go some way to explaining why people can behave so badly these days, sacking cities and burning the inhabitants to death was standard practise a thousand years ago when you wanted to raise an issue.

Either we have regressed a thousand years since 1953, or, and this is a less appealing idea, or civilisation has not advanced a gnats whisker for the last thousand years.

Seeing as the Egyptians, despite building the largest and most long lasting structures on the planet, wore the same kind of sandles for four thousand years (yes that is twice the length of time between Christ and us). I have my suspicions that a couple of hundred years of advancing technology since the industrial revolution have counted for nothing.

Most of us are designed to be and want to be mediaeval surfs.

Re:Fantasy

[soyuz_2]

I want to be a spaceship pilot. I was designed for zero G :)

Re:Fantasy

[coastwalker]

In what way is your design suited to zero gravity? Possibly with your moniker you favour low pressure trousers as made fashionable by the inhabitants of Mir?

What? No Firefly?

[Udo Schmitz]

I call conspiracy.

Re:Some thoughts on 3 of the awards...[spoiler]

[davidbarton]

I agree with the assessment that The Cookie Monster was plausible and well told. I would not have thought that the character development was any worse than a normal story of similar length. Any lack of character development is because the characters didn't need it to carry the story and the short length of the story didn't allow it.

The story had a fantastic concept and explored it well and in a way it was easy to relate to. In this case, the concept and plot are the key points that carry the story. I thought the comment that the competition was thin degrades a fine story.

Legions in Time felt like a homage to 30s & 40s pulp SF. A lot of superscience, action, and Flash Gorden-esque superbeings. I enjoyed reading it but found the constant context shifts very jarring, and I wouldn't have said that the character development was anything beyond the functional level required for the story.

I thought the story would have been more enjoyable at 2-3x the actual length so that each of the different scenarios could be more fully detailed. As it was, it felt very rushed.

I think Nadine was quite clearly explained as a kind of temporal loop-back of the main character, Ellie. However she had advanced into a superbeing herself through her travels. I think that is as close as you want to look at time travel physics!!! (possibly not on /.)

Re:Typo - not

[Anonymous Coward]

This is SF not fantasy. Until you prove that someone can predict the future, I won't believe you. I mean, why don't you ever hear "psychic wins lottery"?

(I'll accept ESP in SF, 'cause that is caused by the matrix.)

Lem

[urbaer]

Am pretty certain that Lem hasn't written any fantasy... from what I've read it's all SF (although I'm not sure where Imaginary Magnitude and A Perfect Vacuum would fit in). Posibly some of the stuff that hasn't been translated might be fantasy.
Anyhow check out Lem's site and poke around.

If you haven't checked out Lem before, do so... he's (IMO) the best SF novel writer.

Re:Fantasy

[1000StonedMonkeys]

Good fantasy novels and good sci-fi novels are actually very similar. They both take society, change part of it, explore the world that they've created, and in doing so illuminating aspects of human nature. The only real difference is the exact way they go about doing it. Sci-fi usually starts with our society as the basis and extrapolates into the future. Fantasy starts from scratch.

It's unfortunate that much of the fantasy genre tends to be a rehash of the lord of the rings, or "fondly remembered mediaeval feudal society" as you call it. If a novel looks to a future where much of human technology has been lost because of nuclear war and we've reverted to a feudal system of government, is that fantasy or sci-fi? What about Dune? For all intents and purposes, the society there is a completely new one, and a feudal one no less, yet the book is heralded as a classic of sci-fi (and rightly so). It's hard to tell, because at the core, what makes good sci-fi makes good fantasy.

Correction...

[Roger W Moore]

Farenheit 451 should have been renominated this year. Half a century later, and it still resonates

Don't you mean 50 years and 460 degrees later?

What horrible....

[jotaeleemeese]

"The main characters were believable"

Maybe you are gullible?

"the time travel was done well,"

You must be Dr Who I suppose.

"the bad guys were really evil"

No suprises there, as with most SF writing the characters are unidimensional.

Legions in Time at Asimovs

[mother]

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0406/legionsintime.s html/

Bujold Hugos

[ppanon]

Hey, a Hugo is a Hugo. Neither you nor your post's parent specified Hugos for novels.

I remember mentioning Lois McMaster Bujold to some self-important fan at a Worldcon in the mid-90s (or maybe the Atlanta NASFic). He dismissingly said something like "I've never heard of her". "Oh no? She has won a couple of Hugos" deflated him pretty fast. :-)

Hugo Awards

[kastandlee]

You know.... Wikipedia != Authoritative

However, in the case cited, the entry is pretty good.

Kevin Standlee (Hugo Awards Administrator, 1993, 1994, 2002)