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Tivo and Netflix Partner For DVDs on Demand
Tonetheman writes "The details are not really there yet, but it looks like Tivo and Netflix are going to team up! This is great for those who watch a lot of DVD's. You will be able to order a DVD and have it appear sometime later on the Tivo. Blockbuster will not be far behind with your favorite cable company."
...hacked in 5...4..3...2..1...
I like the sound of it. One of my biggest complaints about Netflix was that you couldn't just say "Oh man, I really want to see !" and go get it to watch that night. Admittedly, their shipping service is fast, but it's still not the same when you have to wait a day or two to get it. But if I could download it (or at least get it streaming) instantly or within a couple of hours, that'd be pretty darn cool :)
Where do they plan on finding super-high bandwidth connections for home users? For me at least, it is and would remain much faster to to spend five minutes walking the two blocks to the video rental shop and just get one there, rather than waiting a couple hours for the movie to download.
"...Blockbuster will not be far behind with your favorite cable company."
Comcast already offers movies through their OnDemand service and I don't have to wait for them to download before I watch them. The service unblocks access to the movie I want for 24 hours so I can watch it anytime I want before the time's up.
Strangeberry software, codeveloped by one of the writers of Sun's Java programming language, allows users to plug a DSL or cable modem into the back of the TiVo device and draw digital content like music and movies off the Internet.
TiVo can already use your broadband connection to download their programming info. Does anyone know exactly what Strangeberry does? The TiVo press release just described it as "protocols and tools for delivery of broadband."
I'm also wondering if this is going to be an update to your existing TiVo software, or if it'll be another $100 add-on, like Home Media Option.
-bhj
or, you could switch to directv, and get the box for $40 and tivo service for $4 a month. at least here you could.
Hey, fix the damn al a carte system first! I don't want to order my cable with the existing packages, but would rather only pay for the channels (and services) I prefer. No damned shopping channels and such, just give me news channels, History channel, TLC, Discovery, BBC, Speedvision, ESPN, TCM and broadband cable, with the OPTION of being able to order specific movies or events ON DEMAND when I want them.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
As an avid Netflix subscriber and recent TiVo purchaser, this sounds great. Being able to add a movie to my queue and then watch it within hours, as opposed to ~2 days would be quite cool.
Of course I haven't R'dTFA, but I wonder what the disk space requirements are for this? The 40 hour units don't exactly have a ton of space.
I also wonder how the MPAA is going to agree to this; it's already fairly trivial to telnet or FTP to a TiVo, pull the programs off, and burn them to a DVD (or so I hear). You'd think that this thing will be h4xx0r3d pretty quick.
It's "no one," not "noone." Who the hell is noone anyway?
On it's last leg but it continues to try to find new ways to innovate while your cable company and satellite company continue to rip off their ideas? Maybe so but who's coming up with the good ideas and implementing them in such a way that it just works? Tivo created the DVR, you can bet they've got a few ideas up their sleaves yet... i for one will buy a tivo and a netflix account if this hits :)
My problem with directv was that you needed a phoneline to use their boxes, blah on that, tivo let's me use broadband which i don't mind running cat5 to my tv, but why should i run a flipping phoneline to my tv? doesn't make sense. comcast might have a similar option but ya know... i can't even get it in my area yet, or if i can i have to have the bastards bring out another box, who knows how long that'll take, they still haven't come and picked up their crappy cable modem that died on me that has been in it's box for a good year now.
I welcome this kind of service.. now hopefully it's cheaper for netflix to do this over the net than it is to send it in the mail and i don't have to pay $20/mo for this type of service.. which i think is kinda high for my own personal viewing habits.
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
I wonder if they are going to get in trouble, or if they have permission for such a plan. I could see them saying each TiVo copy is linked to a physical DVD - but MP3.com tried that long ago to disasterous effect by letting you listen to streamed music of a CD that you identified you owned.
It sounds great though and would be the thing that would finally have me buy a TiVo box. Plus, if you think about it, it could almost make the HDVD spec moot if you could download HD media to your TIVO from Netflix (perhaps in conjuction with HDNet as per the recent story, though they want to ship out physical drives to customers!).
Sounds like a great idea to keep both Netflix and TiVo ahead of rivals.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is an excellent move. I've got a netflix subscription, and I want to get a tivo. The idea of being able to get DVDs on demand over my Tivo (and watch x many times or y hours) is sweet. The only issue is bandwidth. I've got a 3mbit/s connection, and it would be nice to watch it in real time (a well compressed 3mbit/s strem can look nice - DirecTV's channels are a little less than 3mbit/s by comparison). Still, its wonderful to hear this.
About damn time.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Hey you know you could save some more money by just stealing the DVD-Rs as well!
Because without Tivo your cable company is going to go back to doing what it always does. Never innovate and always raise prices. It took Tivo to get them off of their butts and finally implement DVR. You still can't stream MP3s or anything else to your cable box (which is handy when your stereo is attached to your TV). I don't know about your area, but in mine the "video on demand" service is a joke, there are like 50 movies on it and they're all summer movie crap, and they're fairly expensive to rent. If the Tivo/Netflix partnership goes well, that service could be greatly improved (and reduced in price) while your local monopoly tries their hardest to squash their competition.
I read the internet for the articles.
To me it seems like blockbuster and netflix and the like are probably feeling the squeeze from all this tivo/dvr/video-on-demand and need to partner w/ these companies that get into the home each and every day.
When I worked with my local cable provider in tech support for the highspeed clients the cable provider was beta testing the inDemand features in new cable boxes. The employees who wanted to help were the beta testers. I enjoyed the sneak peek at the near future, but on to my main point...
One day i was helping the guy who was deploying the inDemand systems and I was asking him about the technical details and scaling the systems. At the end of the conversation he put it this way:
"They're basically gunning to put blockbuster out of business.."
that's not the exact quote but close... and of course it was only his opinion, but who knows... blockbuster will soon be at the knees of these cable companies with on-demand movies because they can get it to the home.
mod me down if u must
------ no thanks... I've quit
However, I don't see how TiVo is going to continue to compete with actual content providers. The Time Warner box in question (Scientific Atlanta 8000HD) can handle HDTV, something the cheap-ass $100 TiVo cannot. So now we're talking about a relatively expensive initial investment for the TiVo hardware.
I'm a hardware nerd, and totally happy to hack a TiVo to 320GB, but most people aren't. Remember that.
As for the $300 package, $300 would buy me five years worth of TWC DVR service. I find it highly unlikely anyone will *really* be using that 5 year old modded TiVo at that point. Maybe some people would, but I'm usually much faster on the electronics upgrade cycle than that.
As far as I can tell, the TiVo's widely-celebrated interface is the only advantage it has, and I'm afraid people aren't going to want to pay what is suddenly a VERY large price difference just for that. Especially people who have never USED both interfaces.
I would MUCH rather see a company like TiVo succeed, instead of Time Warner. But I have to admit TWC is getting my $5/mo, and Tivo isn't getting a dime. :(
HO
For the following reasons:
Don't try to search for an upcoming show by name -- you'll have to hit TVGuide.com for that -- definitely not an integrated experience!
You also won't be seeing any "TiVo suggestions", based on which shows you've given the "thumbs up" to.
You won't be able to modify that cable box, either. TiVo is Linux based, and a LOT of hacks exist, so that you can do more with your equipment. That cable box is NOT your equipment, so just sit back and relax, and hope that you don't ever want to do anything with all that content but watch it on your TV later.
You're missing out on a bit of functionality there -- but go ahead and enjoy your less expensive solution... while I enjoy knowing that what mine is mine, and not rented.
Oh yeah, I only pay $6.95 a month for TiVo service. Just call them up and threaten to leave -- they are more than willing to negotiate. You definitely can't say that for your cable company!
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
Don't get me wrong, I an all in favor of fair use copying. In particular, I find that making copies of movie titles for my Sony DVD changer yields far more preferable discs than the originals. When my two year old kid wants Winnie the Pooh, an FBI screen and mandatory menu are not what is called for.
All my previous sigs now look like this one, I wish they were permanetly recorded when used.
So how are they going to do this? Are they really going to deliver you the 6GB DVD stream of "Signs" or "Moulin Rouge?" I can see networks of DSLams from coast to coast grinding to a halt now. More likely it will be some shit quality rip made by machines in a "ripping factory" - if you have broadband you could ALREADY get anything they have to offer from usenet or bittorrent, in higher quality than they are likely to offer, and get it before these folks get around to "licensing" the content for broadcast from ho-town.
Jack had it wrong all along, and it's sad to see how his antiquated notions have crippled the potential of an entire industry. So long as Hollywood continues to deny broadcasters the ability to compete by offering high quality and convenience in one package, "piracy" is going to grow in the mainstream.
It's not about competing with free, Jack - it's about competing with quality.
- Broadband is presumably required
to download the DVD content
- This will likely be broadband over cable in most areas
- My provider, Comcast, offers a competing on-demand service
- Comcast is known to terminate service
for anyone who actually uses their unlimited broadband
- Sign up, start downloading
... then go begging to get your Internet restored?
I suspect that other large cable/broadband providers will do the same (terminate, interrupt, or otherwise impede service), perhaps regardless of whether they provide on-demand services that directly compete with this Tivo/Netflicks offering.Howard M. Lewis Ship -- Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant -- Creator, Apache Tapestry and HiveMind
with this one you don't have to wait, it's instant...
only thing is I believe there's only a limited selection but i'm not sure...
https://secure.shaw.ca/sod/home.asp/
The movie should immediately start playing on your TV. Sit back and enjoy the show! Remember that you can stop, pause, rewind or jump forward at any time using your remote control.
-judging another only defines yourself
The Matrix clocks in at 7.8GB.
At 1 Mb/s, that's close to a day.
Or by "DVD", maybe they mean a low quality copy of the movie you might rent on DVD, with none of the extras, bells or whistles.
Tivo will survive because it has a loyal fan base who love the unit, who can hack the unit to expand it, and now because of netflix.
Look at it this way. How many of slashdot's readers have netflix? I don't but if this were offered i'd get a subscription if it was "unlimited" still. It's really that simple. Your cable company as mentioned does not offer a very wide selection of movies and they're much more expensive. Tivo is going to have one hell of a service if they can provide this.
Tivo will likely remain a niche market device, while people who just kind of like the idea of DVR's and don't want all the fun little nifty things tivo does will pay the $5/mo for the mediocre service their cable/sat company provides them. Tivo's niche market is fairly large so i am pretty sure it'll sustain itself just fine, and once netflix customers start seeing they can get movies on demand from a tivo device you can bet that they'll be interested! This works both ways.
Kyle
http://www.unlogikal.net/
What's the difference between a network cable going to your TV and a phone cable going to your TV? I would assume that most people would have a phone (and therefore a phone line) in the same room as their TV but far fewer people would have a computer\router\switch etc. Mabey I'm missing the point, but that alone seems like a strange reason to choose one over the other, especially if the other costs substantially less.
--Do Not Write In This Space--
I have a computer, an xbox, a ps2 and maybe a tivo sometime in the future near my tv. All of those like having ethernet, especially the computer since I can stream from one computer in the house to the other.
The phone wire? well.. there's no phone wires in my house. In my parent's house we had phone jacks in three rooms.. kitchen, master bedroom and yes, the room with the tv.. but it was in a stupid spot. We were running cat5 already, easier to run that and infinitely more versatile. If I really needed it to be something special, then I'm sure there's adapters somewhere that'll only make use of 4 of the wires, so I could use the existing cable to do phone stuff. *shrug* never needed to even consider that before.
My favorite cable company? Hell, I've only got one choice and it's a bit of a stretch to call it my favorite...
TiVo's OS is Linux based, you can download the source code: http://tivo.com/linux/linux.asp
I'm not sure about all TiVo's but mine has a USB port in the back (and most of the new ones do) but there are several books and online guides (one book that i know of "Hacking the TiVo")
But you can pull the MPEG2's right off the TiVo and on to your hard drive, and then it's onto the DVD burner from there.
However, I don't know if this NetFlix thing is actually going to send the entire DVD to your TiVo (with the menus and deleted scenes and stuff) or if it's just going to be movies only.
I have DirecTV and TiVo, and they already have "Starz on demand" where you choose what movie you want.
If you order pay per view, or record something on Starz, you can record it onto a DVD, but it might not have the deleted scenes and stuff.
Also with a TiVo, there is something called the "showcase" and if you go into the "showcase" menu it has a few short video clips, (all junk like commercials and stuff)
But I'm not sure if this is real big news, there have been all kinds of movie services in the past. (Pay-Per-View, Starz, HBO, ShowTime, On-Demand) (KaZaA)
But if this new service is going to send the entire DVD, (deleted scenes and all), it will be pretty cool.
Probably only the movie. An entire DVD is typically 7-8GB. At 1.5mbit/s thats 11 hours for 8GB. Overnight is OK, but I'd hate to wait any longer than I had to.
The Doormat
If you're not outraged, then you're not paying attention.
Until the whole system gets hacked and you come home to 37 hours of gay midget porn all conveniently already billed to your account. =)
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
You will be able to order a DVD and have it appear sometime later on the Tivo.
I already enjoy this slow pseudo-VOD service with TV shows (and whatever DVDs people have stored on their RTVs) using ReplayTV and Poopli. It's like Napster for video.
Da Blog
Being able to download DVDs to my TiVo is something I'd probably do occasionally when the video shop a couple of blocks from my home doesn't have what I want. On the other hand, if I could download better-than-DVDs to my high-definition TiVo, I'd probably go to my TiVo first, and check the video store if TiVo couldn't get it.
Sounds pretty cool, but what about those movies with DTS sound and higher quality? Is all that stuff going to be lost in the download? Netflix for me takes about a day or two to get a new movie (return it Tuesday, it's received Wednesday, get new one on Thursday), and for certain movies I wouldn't be willing to sacrifice my sound or quality just to get it somewhat quicker.
First, they sell aggregate data, NOT data with your name attached to it.
Second, you can opt out of the data collection if you want. TiVo hackers have examined the data stream the TiVo sends before and after and confirmed that once you opt out, no data about your viewing habits is sent out.
Third, you don't have to pay a monthly fee in perpetuity. You can buy a subscription for the lifetime of the TiVo for $300-- which works out to paying the monthly fee for two years up front, after which the program listings are free.
It sounds nice in theory that you can download a
:)
:-\) :P)...
:)).
"DVD" to your TiVo and watch it, but there are
some serious cons to such a system (on TiVo
hardware)...
For one thing, TiVo doesn't have component
outputs, so you're stuck with SVIDEO. The DVD
video will be compressed even more than normal so
you lose picture quality even before the picture
goes over SVIDEO.
TiVo doesn't have S/PDIF out, so you can say
goodbye to Dolby Digital or DTS sound (most
importantly a discrete LFE channel). The audio
too, will be compressed more than normal. So even
without Dolby Digital or DTS you're still getting
much lower quality than the actual DVD.
And finally, nobody (I know anyway) has enough
free space on their TiVo to store these movies...
We're all too busy hoarding episodes of shows
we've been meaning to burn to DVD for months
ReplayTV's more suited to address the first two
issues (since they have S/PDIF and Component Video
outputs). Certain TiVo models have built-in DVD
burners, which only solves the 3rd problem...
Personally, if I wanted something on demand, I'd
use my cable company's VOD service. (Which DOES
have Dolby Digital soundtracks, but no DTS
and my cable box has component out. And there's
also HD VOD (something renting or owning the
actual DVD can't even offer
I'm equally surprised at the success of iTunes.
The music you download is noticably lossy, and
they don't offer lossless copies of anything you
buy (40+ Mb would be perfectly acceptable for this
audiophile
I suppose there are those who will always like
their thrills cheap and easy, making up the
majority of the customer base for online music
services right now. It remains unclear what will
happen to these service's customer bases once
HDTV sets and Dolby Digital / DTS home theatre
equipment becomes more mainstream.
TiVo would do much better if it were to upgrade
its "Home Media" option to allow PC -> TiVo video
x'fers and other services that ReplayTV offers.
I understand why they're hesitant to implement 1st
party video extraction. But injection of external
MPEG2 files would make a lot of people happy,
especially those folks with the DVD burner models.
I'd more willingly fork over a few extra bucks a
month for that than renting a DVD over TiVo.
For the majority of TiVo users this will not be equivilant to a DVD. It will be lower bitrate, 2-channel audio, interlaced, and S-Video output at best. It's a neat idea, but acutally renting or buying a DVD will still be better.
"This is a desperate move from a desperate company. Who cares about TiVo anymore? My Time Warner box gives me DVR functions for $5/mo and i don't have to buy any hardware. Remind me why I should buy a $300 box and THEN pay $12.95 per month?"
Why, because that Time Warner Cable DVR is a very poor substitute for a TIVO. With TIVO you can create wishlists based upon titles, actors, directors, keywords or categories and have them all recorded for you automatically. Say your son or daughter has a report to do on the civil war. With TIVO you can put in the keywords "civil war" and even specify that it should only record documentaries. I'd like to see your TWC DVR do that! TIVO also learns what type of programs you like and will auto-record suggestions for you (if you choose to). I also use wishlists to auto-record movies or other programs that I would like to see, but have no idea when they might be shown. We also have our TIVOs connected by a wireless network to a computer so we can play MP3s on the surround sound system in the living room.
Before we had TIVO we always complained that there was never anything on when we wanted to watch TV, even though we have over a hundred channels. Now TIVO always has more programming that we actually enjoy watching than we even have time to watch. The problem with having so many channels available is that it's necessary to provide better and more efficient ways to sort through that information. The programs most people want to see are there somewhere, you just have to get through all the junk to find it. That's the one thing cable companies still do not understand and TIVO has been the one to provide ways to do this.
In our house we don't even watch live TV anymore (or commercials). When we turn on the TV it's only watch the kind of programs we choose and network schedules are no longer something we even care about. That is what TIVO is about. It's about you controlling the TV, not the TV controlling you.
This is awesome if it comes to pass, but I wonder first, will I have to finally get a Series 2 or one of the Pioneer DVD-Rs? Also, how much bandwidth will it use? Hard drive space?
I have a Philips Series 1 with Turbonet and an extra hard drive (only 50 GB total, but that seems good enough for me.) However, I'm noticing there are image quallity problems, lots of stuff just isn't as sharp as live is. And I have it set to use Highest quality.
My setup: Tivo, DirecTV, 5.1 Koss DVD unit, 27" Sony Wega, using composite cables. Yeah, I know S-Video would be better (component even better) But I also use a selector box for my XBox, GameCube and PS2, which are all composite. But thats not problem. If I go direct from DirecTV to the Koss, it looks better.
So it makes me wonder how a movie is going to look. I have 8mbit DSL, so bandwidth isn't an issue for me, (unless this thing is going to do what TiVo does to TV input, watch it all the time...), but I figure they're going to need to compress the stream, maybe using an advanced mpeg4 codec (how about that new H.264 that Apple and DVD Forum is touting?
Mainly I've noticed the quality problems since I "inherited" the Wega from my Dad. Before I was using an older TV, so maybe its just that the Wega is so much crisper anyway that it brings out the flaws in the TiVo video codec?
Is there anything that can be done about that? Would a new TiVo box (either DirecTivo or DVD-R) have better quality? Do the newer boxes have better codecs?
Whats it going to be like with this Netflix over broadband to TiVo?