RIM's New Blackberry Ditches Thumboard

Eric Giguere writes "Research In Motion's newest BlackBerry, the 7100t, aka 'Charm,' has a more conventional phone form factor. It does this by ditching the thumb keyboard for an extended keypad with predictive text input. It also adds Bluetooth. The changes are mostly physical, the device is still running the same basic software -- existing Java apps should run with only minor changes. More details at the BlackBerry.com website." xRelisH supplies this link to a review of the device from MSNBC.

Comments

Predictive entry sounds better than others

[chrisbw]

I'm really used to the current BlackBerry keyboard, but I'm really interested in seeing how they implemented their predictive text entry. I read another article this morning about it, and apparently it "learns" as you go, and dynamically adjusts its recognition list. This is much better than what my Sony-Ericsson mobile can do with SMS messages.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[name773]

how Blackberry devices differentiate themselves
i'm guessing they use the chain rule

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[foo12]

I had some bad luck with predictive entry on my T68 once. I was living in the Philippines, sharing a house with one of my coworkers. Texted him something similar to the following:

Cant find jews. Jews on table by door/tv? Plz find jews, bring to work.

jews = 5397 = keys.

Re:Predictive entry sounds better than others

[nolife]

I have negative thoughts about removing the the keyboard. I always thought that was a huge plus. Remember, a majority of Blackberry users are the suits who could care less about the technology and just want to do nothing more then send and recieve their corporate email and have the ability to read attachments. Many of these people can not even understand the difference between "GSM", "gprs" and the "GPRS" signals and what they are for. Any learning from the predictive input better be stored on the sim card so when they get a new BB, they do not have to start all over again. Although there will be an interest in smaller, there will always be a nice sized crowd that would rather have a largeer screen and full KB also. I turned down a 7210 which has a color screen in favor of the monochrome 6710 because it had a larger screen.

Fewer keys = fewer moving parts = less breakage
I agree in theory but the only thing I've ever seen break on any of the BB's are the thumbwheel and the screen.

exist?

[BoldAC]

existing Java apps should run with only minor changes

It's freaking java. Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!

The platform is going to do better if there is more software available.

Re:exist?

[lseltzer]

You're being too soft on Java. This is inherent in the dishonesty of Java marketing. Write once run anywhere my ass.

Re:exist?

[doodlelogic]

Why do all of these device makers continue to change small things that make all of the previous software libraries not work!

You could also ask:

Who are device makers' principal direct customers?

How do these customers, whether retailers or network providers, afford to sell their phones at below cost price?

Can an industry sustain the sale of loss leaders if it does not lock its customers into buying aftersales upgrades, additional features and ported programs?


My ten pound phone device thingy has been pricier than even the natural sceptic that I am likes to admit.

Re:exist?

[austad]

That's BS. Most midlets developed for the Nokia phones will not run on Sony-ericsson phones, and vice versa. I've tried it.

Re:exist?

[Trejkaz]

Then they're not standard. Is it so hard to understand that when you use a class that isn't in the Profile you're supposed to be developing for, that it won't work on other devices?

I thought the full...

[ObjectiveGiant]

... keyboard was what made these things so attractive. I txt on my cell phone quite frequently and I'm not crazy about T9 input. It's a bit of a pain to check behind yourself to make sure the correct word was selected. Obviously it's better than pounding one button 3x to get the right letter you want but isn't this a downgrade for this type of device?

Predictive text

[scowling]

I'd be very surprised if the predictive text system works as well as the reviewer appears to indicate, unless the only words you use are common ones (or if you're willing to use up virtually all of your storage on your custom dictionary entries).

Every predictive text system I've used in the past has been slower (due to dictionary-adding, backspacing, and so on) than it would have been by using more 'traditional' input methods like thumb-texting.

Maybe it's just me, but I doubt it.

Re:Predictive text

[yaroslavvb]

An unrelated question I was pondering -- do any thumb-texting predictive text devices use predictive method more advanced than Markov chain? (essentially just looking at list of words that start with already typed prefix) That's how it seems to work on all the cell phones I tried. There's enough research out there to make a more advanced system. For instance, a word level Markov chain that offer words that are likely to follow first. Or an approach that would allow better generalization, such as decision tree predictor.

Whoops

[darth_MALL]

I accidentally just dropped my BB 6280 and it broke into 12 peices! Whatever will I do? Hey boss! I have an idea for a replacement!

The keyboard was their main feature

[stripmarkup]

So far, the Blackberry is the only mobile device that I've found useful for web browsing and emailing. The qwerty keyboard is the main reason, it's much better than, say, the one in the Treo 600. The new Blackberry looks like any other cellphone. I know that I'll never be able to compose email or search Google nearly as fast with the predictive input, no matter how good it might be.

Re:The keyboard was their main feature

[Digital11]

Then you should try the Danger Hiptop. Blackberry's email interface is better (because it handles folders, etc in a better way) but everything else about the hiptop SMOKES the Blackberry.

And on the subject of predictive text input. Screw that, I can type 50+ WPM EASILY on my Hiptop.

And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Jakhel]

"Boo hoo, why can't I have a phone that just makes calls. I have 20 other devices that I carry on my batman like utility belt that do each_function_separately."

I personally am happy to see a phone like this hit the states. When the new ericsson phones release we'll really see something interesting.

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[dasmegabyte]

Some of us don't feel the need to check our email whilst walking, or listen to mp3s on a phone. Some of us believe in that tireless old adage "The right tool for the right job." Still others of us don't have a lot of devices to carry...for me it's keys, ipod, wallet, phone stays in the car or on the desk or in my jacket pocket. I don't carry a palmtop because the input methods are invariably shite, don't carry a camera unless I intend to take pictures of things (and let's face it, camera phones take shitty pictures anyway, why waste the money) and I don't need retarded games or ringtones.

Am I anti-convergence? Fuck no, it's good to see people creating shitty devices that do too much, because it makes them appreciate the simple things in life. Like a phone that's just a phone, or a notebook that doesn't erase everything you're doing if your brother text messages you. Convergent devices are good things, they're just nothing I would ever want to own. I like to be able to USE the things I own.

Re:And cue the anti-convergence zombies..

[Quattro Vezina]

I personally am happy to see a phone like this hit the states.

The only problem with combination phone/PDA devices is that it can never be the right size. A phone is supposed to be small and compact. A PDA is supposed to have a larger screen so you can actually do stuff on it. If you combine the devices into one, it's never going to be adequately sized.

OTOH, that's the only combination I dislike. Combine other things, sure. Thanks to my cellphone, I save money not buying a watch. If I had the money to buy that Zaurus I've been drooling over, I'd use it as a combination PDA/music player/whatever else I can think of.

Predictive Text =/= T9

[ARRRLovin]

From the looks of the 20 key keypad, it looks like it's going to use a form of predictive text that would help the "QWERTY" users more than the traditional T9 SMS user. I hope they hit the T-Mo stores soon so I can take it for a test drive.

The price

[halo1982]

At $199 I would buy this phone in a second. With the current Blackberries being $349+ and being kind of awkward to dial out/talk on, this is exactly what I want. And Bluetooth is an added bonus.

Re:The price

[generic-man]

Sorry to interrupt your rant, but the new Blackberry really does cost $199.

If you had bothered to read the article before cursing up a storm, you could have seen the sentences: "Now, the best part of the equation. T-Mobile, the only cellular carrier to sell the 7100t, has priced the device at a mind-boggling $199."

Utter genius.

[Moofie]

They have gotten rid of the second-most-odious text input method (a thumb keyboard) and gone straight to the most odious.

I hate my Blackberry

[DevilM]

I hate my Blackberry for the following reasons:

• Talking on it without the earpiece sucks
• The natural place where you hold the device is also the button to end a call
• It is too easy to answer a call and put the person on hold
• If I am using any PDA functionality and a call comes in my work is lost
• Sometimes people can't hear me when I answer the phone
• Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input
• Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox
• It has trouble telling the difference between the same number with and without a 1 (long distance)
• It thinks all 10 digit calls nees a 1
• The keypad letters are wrong for the number pad, which makes it highly annoying to dial a number by name (1-800-get-a-clue)
• When adding a number to the addressbook it assumes the number is a work number

Give me time, I will think of more.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[Net0ps]

I'm not completely sold on mine either, but some quick off-the-cuff responses to (some of) your complaints:

# Talking on it without the earpiece sucks
Agreed. A good earpiece makes a big difference with it.

# The natural place where you hold the device is also the button to end a call
True, although you have to hold that button down in order to end the call. I've found a loose grip and/or moving my thumb slightly to grab the housing rather than the button works fine for me, but obviously YM she is much V.

# It is too easy to answer a call and put the person on hold
True. If I have one complaint, it's the "push-to-select" function for the wheel, which invariably causes me to roll one option up or down while pushing in.

# If I am using any PDA functionality and a call comes in my work is lost
Have you tried Alt-Esc to switch functions? Frequently it looks like it lost stuff when in fact it has just switched applications. Alt-Esc works like Alt-Tab, but not so convenient (you then have to hold Esc while scrolling the wheel with your thumb-tip to select another application to open--very annoying).

# Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input
Setting a password on the device, as annoying as it can be sometimes (employer requires it) solved this--it now won't unlock without the password, which is pretty difficult to enter by random chance.

# Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox
This is, I think, just a sync setting: change the sync setting on your desktop manager (if you're using a BES) and deletions on one will be reflected on the other, or so I understand. For me, this is a feature--takes me five seconds to delete stuff that I've blown off the BB, and that means when I read it on the BB and don't need it, I can delete it without worry.

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[mildness]

How about...

• I get work email when I am not at work

I told my PHB "No way man".

Re:I hate my Blackberry

[camusflage]

Talking on it without the earpiece sucks

Fair enough.. It's like talking into a pop-tart.

Sometimes the keyboard lock unlocks without my input

Try a password. This will guarantee it won't unlock itself. "lock on holstering" is also your friend as well.

Deleting email on the Blackberry doesn't delete it in my mailbox

wireless sync, wireless reconcile, delete on handheld and mailbox. This will automatically delete items in both places when deleted in either.

It thinks all 10 digit calls nees a 1

I dial with only ten digits all the time.

The keypad letters are wrong for the number pad, which makes it highly annoying to dial a number by name (1-800-get-a-clue)

Use the crescent/number key and hit the letter. Not only will it send the appropriate tone, but it will display the letter on the screen.

More reviews

[zaxios]

PC Mag and Forbes have reviews and InfoSync has a detailed news article. Forbes provides some perspective to the objective of integrating personal organizer with phone. PC Mag reads a bit like a spec list. I found the MSNBC review provided already more interesting, but you can look for yourself.

BlackBerry vs. phone and PDA

[zaxios]

I regret reposting so soon, but I've been reading the thread and I have to ask, Does BlackBerry succeed in actually being a good phone or a good PDA? MSNBC says it has "four hours talk time and eight hours standby". With battery life like that, how can this be a useful phone? If BlackBerry has adopted a "more conventional phone form factor", what's it like to use as a PDA? Really, does integrating phone and PDA really provide a better and more convenient experience or does it just implement the worst of both worlds - a smaller screen than a straight PDA and worst battery life than a non-smart phone? Wouldn't it just be better to buy two separate devices?

Problem with predictive texting

[m0RpHeus]

Is when the products are used on countries where the language is not supported by the device. This is my only frustration with predictive texting on my Sony Ericsson phone. I assume the same would be true with this new Blackberry. Yes, english is just fine, but when I need to text using our native language (that is not supported) predictive texting is useless. Also, predictive text is kind of useless if you're texting a lot of techinical jargons.

Tmobile URL -

[Blimbo]

http://www.getmoreblackberry.com/

From the web site
"Register now and you will be one of the first to know when the new BlackBerry 7100t is available for sale. Plus you'll be entered for a chance to win a Bluetooth wireless headset, the ultimate accessory for your new phone."

Stupid blackberry web support

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm currently developing a web application that must work on blackberries, and I am coming to abhor them. They don't render anything except the most basic html (that is, the few blackberries that even have a browser). The browser support is absolutely atrocious. Form filling is insane, and scrolling to the next page makes no sense at all.

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[cft_128]

RTFA, it doesn't use T9, it has 20 keys. Not what you are expecting. I have used a beta Sidekick II, it is pretty nice, a little cartoony though.

Predictive Text Better then Expected

[Embedded2004]

I had the opportunity to test one of these out, what surprised me was how good the predictive text actually was. I am going to be ditching my current BB for one of these as soon as I can manage.

This is the first one I think that I actually like the look for, I just hope with that nice LCD there is some good games for it.

This is awful for a simple reason.

[piecewise]

One of the reasons Blackberries have become so popular is because of their professional look. Lawyers, politicians, consultants, everyone else in DC and in other parts of the country love the Blackberry. And we love keeping it on our belts as a status symbol.

This new Blackberry looks like a toy and like every other phone. There's nothing so appealing about it. I think RIM has really given up that professional tone and they'll be upsetting quite a few customers.

Re:This is awful for a simple reason.

[DAldredge]

Why? Is the one currently on your belt going to go puff and disappear in a puff of red smoke?

Re:Cool!Now there are no competitors for the sidek

[cft_128]

Have you tried it? And not to be an ass, but 20 - 12 is 8, not 6. I would also have to say that having 67% more keys probably makes a large difference.

missing option

[austad]

The thing that I find sorely missing from every "business-class" phone is the ability to use 2 SIM's in it at once. Nearly everyone has a personal phone, and nearly every company provides a phone for their employees. Who wants to carry around 2 phones? Not me. I find myself forwarding the company phone to my personal one and eating the cost of the minutes.

If it won't fit in my pocket, it's not going with me. I don't want a bat belt full of crap.

I've seen SIM adapters that allow you to put 2 SIM's in the phone, but it asks you on power-up which one you want to use. I want to be able to use both of them at once. A 2-line GSM phone. That would be killer.

Um, read it again

[nanotech]

Battery life is 4hr talk and 8 DAYS standby. Reviewer claimed he got 4 days out of it with moderate use.

Losing the full keyboard? I think not

[Anonymous Coward]

Did ViewSonic stop selling CRTs when LCDs came out?

So, what makes you think that RIM is going to stop selling BlackBerrys without the full keyboard. If you don't like it ... don't buy it ... buy a one with a full keyboard.

shit time to look for another phone

[codepunk]

The best part about the blackberry is the damn keyboard, what a bunch of tards. I use mine to ssh the boxes at work all the time. I am sure this adaptive bullshit is going to really work with vi commands.