MGM Purchase Gives Sony An Edge In Disc Format War

Grump writes "The New York Times reports: 'The purchase of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer by a group led by Sony will not only give the company an enormous film library but also considerable power in its fight to set the format for the next generation of digital video discs.' The article goes on to suggest that Sony is gearing up for another Betamax-style failure."

Comments

Bad news

[mirko]

I do not like the way all of these studios suddenly get aggregated by huge multinational companies...
If they decide to prevent a movie from reaching the theaters, it begins easier and easier...

Would "Clerks" still make a success in 2004 ?
In 10 years, will Fahrenheit 911 sequels ever reach the public ?

Re:Bad news

[Nos.]

Yes, it would. Independat film producers making it to the "big screen" is becoming more common, yes they are using the bigger companies like Tristar, Fox, etc for distribution, but these companies are trying to make money. If they see a movie with lots of potential from an independant (Farenheit 911, The Passion of The Christ) they are not going to turn it down. Controversy for something like a movie just makes it more popular.
Remeber that old movie, Exit to Eden? It was banned for a while here in Saskatchewan. It just made the movie more popular. It never hit the theatres, but when the ban was lifted and it came to video stores, it was impossible to keep it in stock, and it wasn't a great movie.

Re:Bad news

[Chess_the_cat]

I'd be very surprised to learn that movies are still distributed on a physical format in 10 years. Once all media is distributed over networks you won't have to worry about distributors and studios. If the movie is made it'll reach the public somehow.

Re:Bad news

[oneiron]

Certainly the infrastructure to do that will be in place, but getting the movie industry to make a complete shift is going to take a little bit longer than 10 years, I think....

Re:Bad news

[Portigui]

Crap like this wouldn't happen under a Democratic President.

You're right, major mergers would never happen under a Democratic president. In case those four don't fit your build because they are not entertainment driven, try this one.

These happen regardless of the president in the office at the time.

Re:Bad news

[syrinx]

(Superbabies: Baby Geniuses 2). I can see the fucking dollar signs in their eyes for ones that actually made money because people wanted to go see the original!

Heh... "Moore Bullshit: Fahrenheit 912"

Re:Bad news

[shotfeel]

I'd be very surprised to learn that movies are still distributed on a physical format in 10 years.

I wouldn't. Considering that broadband use just passed dialup use in the U.S., and IIRC the majority of homes don't have internet access at all (while virtually all have a TV/VCR), I'd be very surprised if physical media isn't still the dominant method of delivery. OTOH the people with the most disposable income to buy movies are most likely to have a broadband connection.

more and more

[sosuke]

it seems like these format wars between companies will end up making the cu lose out, haveing to buy more players, does anyone else think that dvds are just fine? HD content would be nice, but i dont think that its fair to the cu for all of us to have to buy two players, mabye they will make dual format players, and then no one will win or finalize anything, grr

Re:more and more

[BlueTooth]

First you say that DVDs are fine. Then you say you want HD. Of course you do. We all know how this works, the tech keeps marching on.

Format wars are a result of incremental progress. DVDs were so long overdue (i.e. soo much better than VHS) that the battles all occured pre-consumer (and there were many battles, just not much in the way of products produced before these things were resolved). CD audio saw a similar success (DAT doesn't count, its a pro format, which, incidentaly, Betamax has become (or stayed, really))

Then there was DVD-A vs. SACD...why the format war? Because the industry wasn't dying for an upgrade. Sometimes it makes sense for everyone to just shut up and agree on something rather than trying to get the best possible result. In the case of the next digital video format, there isn't much of a percieved need to improvment. People are buying DVDs in droves. All a studio needs to do to generate some extra cash is release a 30 year old TV show on $50 / season box sets. Early adopters are used to format wars, it comes with the teritory.

You also mention that we could end up with two standards both of which are supported by all players (a.la DVD(+|-)R[W] ). If that is the final result, who cares? If one studio releases everything on a 16 layered red-laser disc and another releases their stuff on a 2 layered blue-laser disc, but the player you got in your box of Cherios can play both happily, who really gives a crap?

Sony vs Microsoft

[frankthechicken]

With Microsoft supporting the NEC and Toshiba blue ray format. And Sony, with its huge movie, and technology back up, who is more likely to win the war of the formats?

Hopefully, the consumers.

Never mind that, what about The Hobbit?

[FunWithHeadlines]

The sale of MGM was of interest to fans of LOTR since if Time Warner had bought MGM it would have meant a fast track for filming of The Hobbit with Peter Jackson et al. MGM has the filming rights for the story, and New Line (owned by Time Warner) has been trying to negotiate to get the rights to do the film. Had TW bought MGM, presumably this would have smoothed the way for the film to proceed. Now with Sony owning, what is going to happen next? Will they negotiate with TW to work something out that should be quite a lucrative venture? Or will they dig in their heels?

Geeks everywhere want to know!

Says Who?

[justkarl]

"It further tips scales that were already tipped toward Blu-ray," said Ross Rubin, a consumer electronics analyst at the NPD Group.

I don't know about all of you, but I certainly don't favor expensive new technology to proven successes. DVD may skip a frame now and then, and yes, there's still the chance that the disc may scratch, but for the most part, it's more than value-priced technology. That is, the price is fair given the failure rate.

Re:Says Who?

[hrm]

Yes, but the capacity on current DVDs is simply not sufficient for HD signals. And HD is where we're headed...

This is also the reason I favour the Blu-Ray format; it has 25 GB where HD-DVD offers 15 (I think both numbers are per layer, could be wrong).

Going from 4.5 to 15 per layer does not seem worth the effort, from 4.5 to 25 just might be. Also, I think the HD-DVD camp is making the very common mistake of overestimating *practical* video compression technology. Theoretically 15 GB might just be enough for 3 hours HD movie at 1920x1080i. However, the current DVD market shows most studios can't tell their arse from a good mpeg encoder.

Video compression is a bit like compiler technology; when Intel launches a new pentium it's like "well it won't work faster than the old one right away, but with a smart compiler it'll really fly"... however, that new compiler never materializes, or simply isn't used by your software vendor. So your shiny new processer won't fly after all.

Therefore, in CPUs and DVD storage capacity alike, over-engineer where you can! Vote blu-ray.

Once bitten, twice shy

[tod_miller]

Oh Sony, first betamax, and your memory stick (ok it is cute).

I wrote you a haiku to make you feel better

lets buy MGM
why not it'll be fun, come on
hail our new disc format

ok it isn't that good but whatever.

I can imagine a new Blu-ray player with memory stick input and built in ps3! :-0

In fact, will PS3 use the new disc format? or PS4?

I say good luck to em. As long as I can write my XVid movies to 'em :-) :-) :-)

*come on that is the real need here!*

Sony PlayStation Portable

[tepples]

I guess this merger also means we'll see more films than just Columbia Tristar Home Video's limited selection on the UMD format used in Sony's PlayStation Portable handheld system.

Re:should that be...

[sifi]

DVD officially stands for nothing.

From wikipedia

"DVD" was originally an acronym for "digital versatile disc"; some members of the DVD Forum believe that it should stand for "digital video disc", due to the fact that most members of the public believe that DVD does stand for that. Toshiba, which maintains the official DVD Forum site, adheres to the interpretation of "digital versatile disc." The DVD Forum never reached a consensus on the matter, however, and so today the official name of the format is simply "DVD"; the letters do not 'officially' stand for anything.

So now we know...

Well...

[iamdrscience]

I don't see any reason why this format would be a betamax failure. It seems pretty solid. But yeah, given Sony's record of unsuccessful and barely successful formats, this is probably right.

Betamax, minidisk, memory stick, atrac3. Arguably SACD as well.

Nothing Compelling

[Mr. Arbusto]

Seriously, people just bought DVD's. Heck, most of my collection is in DVD format. Which is as good as I need and probably as good as it gets for the next 20 years. From DVD there is no real compelling reason for the consumer to upgrade. It is already high digtial, the market already enjoys the Value Added features. Making a release in another format would be like Sony Max all over again.

suddenly?

[wiredog]

MGM bought UA in the 80's. Time bought Warner Brothers a while back too. Nothing sudden about media consolidation.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

far from a failure

[Lumpy]

The article goes on to suggest that Sony is gearing up for another Betamax-style failure.

Betamax was far from a failure. it was better than VHS, a overall better design from the beginning and is still pretty much near the standard today in broadcast (betacam is very much like betamax.)

They failed because of two tiny points.

Tape size - not fricking long enough.. they fixed that with a larger format but by that time the damage was done.

Adoption - VHS was far cheaper to license, so the porn industry latched onto it and ran, thus solidifying the VHS format as the defacto standard.

Re:should that be...

[strictfoo]

DVD officially stands for nothing.
It officially stands for DVD. It really does stand for digital versatile disc. I'm sure the members of the DVD Forum that wanted Video were those only concerned with Video. Therefore, their opinions do not matter.

From wikipedia
Wikipedia is not authoritative.
"WIKIPEDIA MAKES NO GUARANTEE OF VALIDITY."
"Therefore, please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by professionals who are knowledgeable in the particular areas of expertise necessary to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information about any subject in Wikipedia"

So now we (don't) know...

End of line.

The succeeding standard will be...

[Anonymous Writer]

... the first one used to distribute porn! The adult industry has a much greater influence on technology than the industry cares to admit.

If only Sony didn't have such a bad track record

[BlueTooth]

Betamax
Mini Disc
Memory Stick
Blu-ray?

Who cares

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

Both formats will probably have a ton of DRM in it anyways. It's all just a money making ploy to get us to buy new "special edition" disc sets... "Now with 15 seconds of additional footage and some interview with one of the extras!" That and new players of course.

And isn't DVD already in 480p?

Not betamax

[samberdoo]

Sony is in a much better position now than they were during the beta/VHS wars. They lost that one because they were much smaller and alone. They now have allies, the playstation is around and Sony owns more music and movies than they did. People are now are used to multiformat players and recorders. I think the trend will continue. Remember beta was a different size and shape, we are dealing with basically the same media with a different format. That being said, I agree that some of these monopolistic trends are bad for the industry. I wonder what format Microsoft will choose for the Xbox 2.

Sony MGM park?

[pavo]

What does this mean to the Disney MGM park? Is Mickey Mouse going to have to carry a walkman now?

I assume they are going to keep the MGM branding, but has anyone heard anything else about this?

What bad track record?

[tepples]

PlayStation. PlayStation 2. Compact Disc itself, co-developed with Philips.

True, Betamax the format is dead, but Betacam the format and Betamax the copyright precedent live on for now.

the problem with sony..

[Suppafly]

.. is that no one wants them to become the standard in any format war.

Sony would like to set themselves up to be the microsoft of the entertainment world. They consistantly ignore market demands and instead produce devices they want people to have instead of devices that people want to have.

Honestly, how many people would want a portable music player that plays some format other than mp3? and takes a higher priced, sony only memory card?

Next Generation of DRM

[nurb432]

This is what its really about, the control ..

Remember this is sony we are talking about..

The Format of the Future

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there really should only be one 'format':
The file. We should be moving to a future where all our music and films live on media with a filesystem.

So many DVD players today read CD/DVD-ROMs with MP3 files and there are even some now that can read DivX files.

Of course it won't happen because the big companies want us to keep buying our films and music again and again in new formats. But a file created today can be with us forever. I actually think that's the main reason behind DRM. Not to prevent illegal copying but to wring revenue far into the future by licencing the decoder to hardware manufacturers.

Sony will win the format war

[bludstone]

Because the ps3 will have blue-ray.

Assuming the ps3 follows the popularity of the ps1 and the ps2, a high percentage of households will already have a blue-ray player. (over 50 million ps2s have been sold)

Frankly, I dont see much advantage of these disks over DVDs, and Ive _got_ an hdtv.

Dear Poor Eyesight

[DumbSwede]

Anyone that thinks DVD is "good enough" is terribly short sighted.

I would estimate DVD quality to be about 3x VHS (about 2x more pixels, and a much better color space).

HDTV has 6x as many pixels as DVD, at 2 Mega pixels.

From my experience with a 10-foot wide projection system (NEC LX135 QXGA) I have at home, anything below DVD is almost unwatchable. DVD looks glorious until you pump a true HDTV signal into the system and then what you have is in many ways better than going to the theater (at least the crappy cineplexes in this town).

Now you might carp who the hell has 10' wide projection systems to really enjoy this kind of experience. The percentage is small today, but I predict that DLP will cause hi-res projection prices to plummet in the next 2-3 years. Mostly because DLP will experience the same kind of Moore's law improvement as any other type of chip type process, while other methods rely more on bulk size improvements.

In fact while it has been long to make it out of the Labs, Hi-Res displays will probably be common and affordable in Ultra-HD resolutions in 5 to 10 years time. (over 8 mega pixels) in large sizes.

I suspect U-HD will be overkill for home, and in most ways exceeds 35mm film quality when you factor in film speed (grainer for faster) and editing and reprocessing (loosing quality at each step). Sure, theoretically 35mm film has 16 Meg pixel, but in practice it is more like 3-6 (not much more than HD). And that's only if you can find a theater that knows how to keep a critical focus, and whose machines don't jitter uncontrollably because they are trying to squeeze the last penny out the damn things before going digital, which they desperately want to avoid as long a possible because first generation equipment is expensive and will suck compared to equipment available in 2-3 years time.

Even without 10' screens, in 2 or 3 years, WUXGA screens (1920-1200) will be common and affordable in laptops with Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD built in. The near photographic look will motivate people to upgrade their home viewing experience. One of the biggest reasons for HDTV slow acceptance has been the failure of early systems to actually display the full quality that the standard supports (most systems today advertised as HDTV still don't). That and of course the lack of actual HDTV content to be viewed.

I suspect I will be one of the ones to say HD is good enough once we really get there. My father has trouble seeing the detail of DVD. So many people don't have the visually acuity to really appreciate the difference. Beyond HD I suspect the majority of people won't really be able to see much of a difference. I'm speaking of REAL HD. 1080p at 60 frames a second is really sweet, but over the air stops just short of this with p at only 24 and 30 fps. My prediction is that eventually 1080p at 60fps will become a standard, one that holds for a couple of decades or more, but we could get stuck at 1080i or 720p, which is a shame because the difference is quite noticeable up to this. Digital photography might still motivate people to buy U-HD projection systems for displaying stills.

As for me -- GIVE ME BLU-RAY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!
(while the CRTs hold out on my current system)