Slashdot Mirror
Digital Generation, Analog Retro Chic
securitas writes "The New York Times' Juliet Chung writes about the latest technology trend: the growing popularity of analog technology with a generation that has grown up digital. 'Yesterday's technology designs are becoming popular among those in their teens and 20's eager to usher back a time they experienced only barely, if at all.' An MIT graduate student interviewed for the article, Ali Rahimi, was tired of the 'impersonal, unthinking' nature of modern technology, so he hacked an old telephone handset together with his mobile phone with the rationale, 'The handset has been going through about a hundred years of evolution in design and ... have the perfect shape.' According to Brown University technology historian Steven Lubar, 'When the available technology converges at a certain performance threshold ... consumers begin to base their choices on nontechnical considerations'. Chung also includes a sidebar that lists some of the new retro analog devices and interpretations, ranging from radio PC case mods to ancient clunker cell phones. Any other cool or interesting retro analog devices or hacks out there?" I've personally enjoyed owning tube amps on and off - the sound warmth, whether it be psychological or real, is definitely different then solid state amps.
Anyone else reminded of the Futurama episodes where Bender rebelled against technology ? And de-upgraded himself to wood ? I know you are. I really want one of those RX-1000 robot workers.
everyone i klnow wears an anolg watch.
now if i only someone would release Doom 3 for my fluid-dynamics-based analog computer.
lysergically yours
fact it, if you only know analog, your career as an EE is numbered. I fired my last analog EE last week - the guy was stark raving mad, mumbling about some type of sea-moss. Those analog only guys belong in an old folks home
People want something different, not something better. The handset of an old analog phone is by no means better or more ergonomic than a good cellphone, but it looks odd and you can't buy it, so it sets its owner apart.
And all of the ones I've built in the past 5 years have no cases - the tubes are exposed so you can see them. Real retro. Real power (400W/Ch). Real sound. Even makes 128kbps MP3s sound good!
Kenny P.
Visualize Whirled P.'s
And I want my cell phone with built in film camera!
It's all psychological. Or settings. I've heard a few people say they didn't care for their CD systems' sound. Turns out, they aren't using their equalizers for anything.
Turn up the bass, and poof, sounds warmer.
Analog clocks are the best, because they go "tick tick" to let you know when each second of your life expires.
Analog still rules the cell phone airwaves, because when you're out in the middle of the boonies(not on the interstate), you'll be glad your have a dual or tri band phone(US).
I preferred my "analog" carbuerator to fuel injection as well. It felt better to be able to actually look at what mixed my air and gas and be able to mess with it, even though I am car-ignorant.
Chris
Certainly there has been a resurgence of old lately, but you will find this trend among any time where there has been a mass revolution in the way things are. For instance, the whole arts and crafts (Gustav Stickly, Morris, Green and Green, etc....etc...etc...) movement which in some part was a reaction or rebelling against the industrial movement of the early 19th century and celebrated the individual craftsman, designer and artist.
Right now we certainly have a rebellion against the "digital world" in many senses with a resurgence of what is warm and old including the use of tubes in stereo equipment and musical instruments to growing popularity of "old phone styles", to automobile designs borrowed from older elements and Hollywood has been borrowing every theme and idea from movies in the past for many of its current releases in an effort to come up with something successful.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
it's really hard to believe that old trends are coming back! It's never ever been fashionable to wear/use items that existed before you could remember them.
No one wore bell bottoms before the late 1990s. No one wore sweat shirts cut strange so they would hang off one shoulder before 2004. No one wore Daisy Duke cutoffs before 2002!
Sadly, in this day and age everything that comes back into style isn't original. It's made by companies that are out looking to make a buck. So yeah, it's going to start out that trendsetters will make their own stuff for free but companies will pick up on it and resell "retro stuff" for the same amount as it costs to have something "modern".
Bah.
Since I was a little kid, I've always aspired to be a high stress, coke-snorting, morally-bankrupt NYC corporate pirate screaming into a giant bag phone, on the verge on an anneurism and a heart attack. Ah the 80's.... Good times. Good times.
I don't respond to AC's.
Or valves, as British people prefer saying, are making a comeback. Some people tend to prefer the warm sound produced by tubes. Of course, tubes were always there in the audio production end, however, tubes are increasingly being used on the playback end. Some manufacturers are still selling tube gear, and they appear to be quite popular.
Although not very cheap, I think that tubes look pretty cool.
Everyone knows that records sound better than CDs. Too bad they don't sell video content on records.
Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
Go to compusa or any computer store and try to find a dial control ( you know like the one used in games like Tempest or Pong ). I've been looking for years for a $20+ dial control that would allow me to navigate through horizontal menu's and play games like Breakout! and they don't exist unless you look from an old retro-fitted junk from ebay or some 200 Dlls over-kill X-Arcade control set.
Bring back the dial control.
Now I just counted to three and made my peace.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
"'When the available technology converges at a certain performance threshold ... consumers begin to base their choices on nontechnical considerations'"
Electrical engineering is OVER, folks, unless you enjoy spending your whole life in front of a computer trying to get that 0.01% edge over your competitor, until you lose your job to outsourcing and STILL have to pay the cult dues, errr student loans.
I keep hearing this statement about tube-amps being better than digital amps because of their warmer sound etc etc. Why doesn't someone do a spectral sound analysis for tube amps that outlines the differences with digital amps and settles the argument once and for all? Is there such an analysis somewhere out there already? I would do it myself except that I don't have access to either tube amps or spectral analyzers...
In a lot of cases, analog is better.
There are reel-to-reel tape recorders from the 60s that still sound better than a CD. And the best digital cameras are lightyears from the best optical ones.
Besides that, there's the matter of how the signals behave when being degraded, which is the best thing about analog.
Take analog TV.. You can have a ridiculously weak signal, and still have something watchable. The static manifests itself as white fuzz, but you can still see the image and hear the voices. I know because I watched plenty of New York TV when I lived in Toronto.
A digital signal just cuts out. You either recieve it or you dont. It's either stuttery sound, blocky movement or gone altogether.
I've had rabbit ears and DirecTV. I'll tell you, if there was some sort of catastrophic weather thing going on (tornados or hurricanes or typhoons, whatver), I know I'd have my rabbit ears hooked up to get my updates.
Same goes for radio. How well would XM come in when the skies pitch black from tornados?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
...the commoditization of so many high tech items (cell phones, PCs, etc.). We all want something a little different from the beige box or the grey flip-phone. Manufacturers (check out Nokia's new stuff, for example) try to hit us with "out there" styles, but retro is cool because, at least for a while, tech companies won't touch it. After all, we're not going to see a Pentium4 boxed up in an IBM PCjr box any time soon.
Don't be a looter...and yes, I know that it's spelled with an "A" instead of an "E".
I remember a section of the story from William Gibson's "Idoru" where one of the main characters has a retro styled computer made by "Harley Davidson". Ever since reading that book I have been waiting for a company to start designing electronics that doesn't look like another piece of hardware. Considering how much I use my MP3 player and digital camera, you would think more companies would have a range of styles. Basically I want "retro styling" to be a step towards be getting my mp3 player to look like my watch.
That would settle it once and for all! And you're the FIRST person to think of it!
Hurry, go apply for a patent!
It seems to me that in the digital bandwagon, many companies ignore the potential utility in analog. A lot of our technology is mere digital representations of an analog data.
I know I really miss the analog dials for quickly finding radio stations. With analog, it was just spin the dial quick to get to your station fast; with digital, click and hold, click and hold some more, tap, tap, tap. Though, I do tend to like digital tuning, analog tuning sometimes allows you to get that pesky hard-to-tune station where digital tuning would just skip it.
Also, I have heard that analog amplifiers have better sound quality than digital. They should, if you just look at the basic properties of sound. Maybe if companies spent some new research money on making a better analog amplifier, analog would turn out to be better overall.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
That's why I've resurrected my old ENIAC to play Doom 3.
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
Be sure to check out the analog computer museum, among others
And don't forget about relay logic
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Well, it's true you don't know me but I haven't worn a watch in about five years. I feel a lot less stressed without one, and I'm still able to keep track of time. I need to know when to leave the house - my ordinary clocks will tell me that (as will my body clock), I need to know what time it is at work - my computer will tell me that. I need to know what time it is to catch my train - the station clocks will tell me that. And, if it any moment I need to know the time I can look at my mobile phone, or simply ask someone if my phone isn't charged.
I imagine there'll always be someone for whom it's absolutely vital, but for the rest of you - try this for a while. Feels odd at firt, but you soon find it quite liberating not caring if you're running 1 minute 23 seconds late as compared to yesterday. Relaxation is sure to follow.
Cheers,
Ian
If those organizations like RIAA/MPAA/whatever keep pushing restrictions like rights managment systems on digital media, and corrupt goverments listen to them and pass shitty laws like DMCA/Super DMCA and such.
I was wondering this the other day when I read some random posting on the internet about a guy who cleaned out a 1930's era RCA radio and crammed a miniITX board inside. What happened to the radio? He threw it in the trash.
This worries me because that radio was created during a time when Analog sets were state-of-the-art and cost upwards of hundreds of dollars. The PC components he placed inside that wooden case probably cost the same, but will be obsolete in a few years due to the speed at which we are updating technology these days. The radio however, was probably in use for well over 20+ years until a tube burned out and the previous owner could no longer get a replacement.
20+ years Vs. 2-3 years. I prefer keeping vintage electronics whole and in one piece. There are tons of resources out there for people who would love to get their hands on old sets and get them working again. The PC in an RCA case will probably be forgotten and discarded not soon after it's internals are considered yesterdays news. Much like it was decades ago, only that much sooner.
There is no spork.
i strongly suspect this all goes back to the comfort things that people are seeking in our post 9-11 world.
I'm fed up of the phrase "post 9/11" being used to explain changes in fashion and taste. Frankly, it would be easy to 'explain' most trends in this way, and I believe it's impact in this area has been grossly overstated.
Fact is, digital watches have not been "cool" since sometime in the 1980s, and they are now coming back into fashion, this time as *retro*.
I don't accept that *this* is down to 9-11; it is more likely to be another retro trend. The early 80s were a *long* time ago now; too long ago to be passe' any more, so let's revive it, goes the reasoning.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
After my grandmother died, the only thing I wanted to inherit was her old standard-issue GPO rotary-dial telephone. My grandparent's house was built at the tail end of the 1960s, and the phone was installed new in that house. My grandmother died at the tail end of last year. Since I want to keep it original (it's a reminder of my grandparents every time I use it) I haven't even changed the little paper disc in the dial that has their phone number and the usual 'Emergency: Fire, Police, Ambulance: 999' bit at the top.
The phone is one of these and anyone who grew up in Britain in the 1970s and 1980s will remember them (and there's still quite a few around that have never been changed out for modern phones).
They are pretty much indestructable, having an electromechanical ringer and solidly-made mechanical parts (including the clockwork dial mechanism with generates the LD pulses). So as I didn't even have to change the wire that goes from the telephone to my modern RJ-45 jack - originally I had planned to just crimp on an RJ-45 plug to the cable - I managed to obtain an old GPO junction box from the same era. You just need to screw down the little connectors on the end of the telephone cable into one end, then crimp on some of those little fork-connectors to the free end of a piece of Cat5 with an RJ-45 at the other end, which you then screw down into the original junction box - then plug into the socket.
I'd also like an Ericofon, but I don't think without soldering resistors to the ringers of the phones to increase the impedance, the ringer current just won't make two phones with a real bell ring at the same time...and I don't want to modify the phones.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I bought one recently, in fact I'm using it now. Accept no substitutes as an iTunes control (volume, scrolling through lists, pausing etc.) or movie editor. And it's great for Tempest under MAME.
Cheers,
Ian
The good old desk phone handset was designed to fit the human hand and head. The contemporary cell phone is designed to be as small as they can make it, to win cool-points. But engineering will eventually triumph over decoration when people settle down and *use* these artifacts. I think that more people are beginning to realize that machines should first of all be fit for their function.
Some of the new stuff is much better than the old. I would never willingly go back to the old LC FM tuners now that I've used PLL types. But I want a radio that's big enough for my hands to operate, no matter what is inside. The use of pinheads masquerading as switch buttons is the opposite of engineering.
I love my old rotary phone. It funny to see someone try to figure out how to dial it. They keep pushing the "buttons" in the dial. Silly kids.
I do have to hit the mouth piece every so often to loosen up the carbon in the mic.
It's even more retro in that it's a Commodore phone that came with my VIC modem.
You could always use this: Vestax vrx-2000
There was the Kingston Dubplate cutter that was manufactured by the same guys who made Final Scratch which was another cutting aparatus which utilzed a PC, but I think they no longer sell it. Final Scratch is really an amazing product, but you can't beat the "feel" of real vinyl beaneath the needle.
There is no spork.
wait until 8-track mp3 players come into voouoouugggcliclclickclickclick
Anybody got a pencil? I've got to fish the tape out of the machine again.
Aopen released a hybrid tube audio-based motherboard back in... 2002? Perhaps it was 2001 even... My analog brain seems to have problems with old, non-important dates.
Also, it's worth pointing out that for most musicians, particularly guitarists, tube technology has never gone away. It may have gotten a little more scarce in the consumer world, but musicians have long known that tubes offer an element that while perceptive, often enhances any sound, digital, or analog-based.
It's also worth pointing out that many companies are now emulating tube sounds. For example, I sold my old Marshall stack a long time ago, and moved to an Line6 AX2 tube-modelling amp. It's very impressive, and allows me to achieve many natural sounding tones, without requiring multiple amps, or annual tube replacements.
T-Racks is a notable piece of software which can do wonders to your music tracks. Many of its functions are designed to emulate tube-based equipment.
So while it's nice to see that more people are re-discovering the magic of analog equipment, it's not like it's ever gone away.
Actually, solid-state does not equivocate to "digital"
;-)
*Sigh* I'm not normally a grammar nazi, but one of my pet peeves is people using 'bigger' words than necessary to sound more sophisticated... especially when it's the wrong word:
equivocate
Main Entry: equivocate
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -cated; -cating
1 : to use equivocal language especially with intent to deceive
2 : to avoid committing oneself in what one says
synonym: see LIE
Next time try:
'Actually, solid-state is not the same as "digital"'
or
'Actually, solid-state does not necessarily mean "digital"
or
'Actually, solid-state doesn't have to mean (or be) "digital"'
Your remark about politicians is ironic considering you seem to be trying to sound like one
-chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
But I still use good old fashioned records all the time, partly it's because it's the best way to DJ, but even outside of the clubs I'm a vinyl fan.
I've just been at my mother in law's this weekend digging through furniture, toys and other nik naks to stocky my new house. I found this ancient 'show n' tell' toy - basically a player for little 7" records and an associated slide show - usually kids stories or mini documentaries. I'm feeling a strange fascination towards this 1950's predecessor to 'Encarta' - at least the hardware doesn't blue screen (although I guess it needs a bulb replaced from time to time).
Anyway, the best find is a 1951 Sunbeam toaster, all automatic, drop the toast in and it lowers itself, toasts, and pops up slowly (and silently). Sure, most toasters these days aren't digital (except for that java driven weather forecast toaster) but this 'fully automated' device feels more high tech than many modern variations.
I've got a bunch of 50 year old vinyl (33 rpm 'microgroove') records that I can't wait to listen to when I get back, I wonder how many of my CD's will still be working 50 years after buying them.
According to Brown University technology historian Steven Lubar, 'When the available technology converges at a certain performance threshold ... consumers begin to base their choices on nontechnical considerations
This is one of the reasons Apple's products sell so well: The company puts an enormous amount of thought into the design. It's one of the reasons I have a Mac, the fact that the design, although not retro, is very smooth, the materials are top quality and Apple evens puts thought into the placment of screws. That and OSX, which exhibits the same processes, but in an OS.
It's using the tubes in a digital way.
I just recently bought a used Fender Twin Reverb II amp...all tube. The guitar tone is just fantastic. My home amp is a little, very price friendly, amp I got off the web. I got the SE84C and have been VERY happy with it. But, you gotta have extremely efficient speakers...I have Klipschorns which are pretty retro too...as that the design of these hasn't really changed since about 1940.
Also pretty cool...are the nixie clocks I've seen around...just trying to find one that is reasonably priced...and not made with tubes that are rapidly becoming unavailable.
But, if nothing else....electronics that 'glow' are cool...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
And I want my cell phone with built in film camera!
micro, 35mm, medium or large format?
On the other hand...at least back in the day, you COULD be a shadetree mechanic...and work on your own car. Today, with everything so computer controlled...you are often hard pressed to work on your own car without special equipment that is often either only available to dealers...or too expensive for the common man to attain.
I had one of the first year C5 vettes...WAY too much computer for me...ditched in 3rd year after 'electrical demons' started appearing. I'd put the key in...seats and mirrors would go to weird positions. Dash board and engine would go tits up on occasion with no reason...and dealer could never find the problems.
I'm much happier with my '86 911 Turbo...sure, it breaks down, but, you can always find a mechanical reason...and pretty easily fix it.
So, definitely a sword that cuts both ways...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Or a fuel cell and methonal tank that would run it for a year!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I've looked at the retro-styled phones (like you can find at Pottery Barn or whatnot), but they get the whole concept wrong (big surprise). I don't want a phone that has a keypad shaped like a rotary dial, I want a real rotary dial that has buttons beneath the dial (where the numbers are).
That way, I can retro-dial anywhere, but have the option of pressing a button when I have to. I'd make that "button" simply be touch-sensitive plastic that has a built-in delay (press and hold for a second). I'd be just as happy with a pure-rotary dial if I had some sort of switch that would allow the phone to send a touch-tone signal when I dialed a number ("Please dial '9' for more assistance.")
Even-order distortion usually comes from tube amps. Odd-order comes from solid-state amps. Both of these are analogue. In practice there's no such thing as a digital amp.
Very few amplifiers are actually completely digital. They are still in experimental stages, and none that I know of are produced commercially.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Is there such an analysis somewhere? Yes. In fact, there's about as many as you'd expect there to be. Here's a quick sampler:
Tubes vs. Transistors: Is There an Audible Difference? (From the Audio Engineering Society)
Tubes vs. Solid State
That's just the tip of the iceberg, my friend. I mean, that's just generally the difference. Once you start considering different design paradigms, there's all kinds of other stuff to get into. The analog vs. digital debate, as far as I'm concerned, is moot; analog and digital can (and do) peacefully coexist. Some people like the way certain things sound, and maybe that thing is a radio from 1938 with tubes, maybe it's your solid-state computer speakers playing digital source.
There is a lot of engineering that goes into making audio equipment and audiophiles aren't all rubbing bizarre cream over everything that enters their houses. Pick up an issue of Stereophile (although for actual reading, I'd suggest Listener) sometime. As much as you'll find it astounding what some do with their stereos, you'll also find it filled with graphs on everything from spectral decay to impedence to power to frequency response... There is a science to audio engineering; just because the results of that science may or may not appeal to you, doesn't mean they're not there.
...use both technologies. We go for tube amps or transistor amps with digital modelling of tube amp characteristics. Effects are also a mixture of both, with classic analog devices like tape echoes often replaced by digital simulators for lower cost, higher reliability, programmability and so on, but admittedly not for improved "tone". Our guitars are another story altogether: hardly anyone plays anything that isn't made of wood, despite more "practical" alternatives. In fact, there is more appreciation than ever of the qualities of fine tone woods. Finally, electric guitarists have been slow to adopt digital pickups, guitar synthesizer systems and so on. Give us our Gibson '59 PAFs and mic our acoustics!
Don't confuse the two. Just because the PC won't run today's software, doesn't mean it ceased to function. For all the tasks it was doing before, it is still just fine and can continue to do them for 20+ years. The difference is that the external standards the radio was designed to deal with (frequencies, modulation method) didn't change while the ones for the PC (software, perhaps network connection) did.
There are computers decades old still chugging along just fine doing what they were originally designed for.
... just raising the issue that "high quality and hand-made" doesn't always equate to "empty status symbol". That said, there are plenty who pay for the most over-the-top stuff in order to make a (tacky) statement.
I was responding mostly to the content where the poster mentioned that the trend of high priced watches was going on for a decade. That indicated a lack of perspective that I had to respond to.
However, overall, I agree with *you* 100%. All of my "luxury" items fall into the categories you listed. I have many of my garments hand tailored to ensure that they actually fit me (at 6'4" and 270lbs) and generally seek out high quality merchandise when I can afford it, but NEVER as a status symbol. It needs to work better, be built better, last longer or look MUCH better for me to be willing to pay the extra premium.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
I think we're getting to a point where technology is so complex that, as Arthur C. Clarke once noted, technology is indistinguishable from magic. Some people like magic, but many most certainly do not. It's not necessarily comforting to not know what is going on behind the scenes in technology.
This "rebellion against digital" is really an attempt to find technology that those people understand. Older technology provides a decent base from which they can understand the more complex technologies. This is the evolution of learning.
// file: mice.h
#include "frickin_lasers.h"
I recently pulled some of my old analog keyboards (Korg Poly 6, Roland JX3P) out of storage to compare them to emulated VST versions that have been released over the last year or so. What a difference... sure you can program the same patches on both versions, but there is no comparison from a sonic standpoint and nothing compares to a bank of knobs and switches that you can actually grab with your hands instead of tweaking with a mouse. Of course there are advantages like being able to save a patch with the track you are working on but I think one of the great things about the old synths was that they forced you to be spontaneous... they sounded different every time you turned them on!
For those interested in retro tech where music production is concerned tapeop.com is the best free magazine around.