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E-bike E-xperiences?
Jakedata writes "I am in the process of building my first e-bike. I intend to use it to commute to work a couple times a week, weather permitting. I can only assume that many members of the /. crowd are already riding e-bikes and would be only too happy to share their experiences. I am looking at a very affordable e-bike conversion kit from Golden Island Machinery. They offer a 36 volt lead-acid battery pack for it, but I am concerned that it will be too heavy. Rabbit tool has a selection of components and power options but they are pretty pricy. So, is Golden Motor's kit any good? Is lead acid OK to start off with? Does someone want to donate a direct-conversion methanol fuel cell to the project?"
This thing has a top speed of 36km/h and 50km distance. I'd say it would come in handy to complement your peddling when the wind is not in your favor.
Though I would have liked to have seen it hooked up to the derailleur as the motor specs says it has 'high torque'.
I can usually maintain 35km/h effortlessly, but with this beast 45km/h could be the crusing speed if peddling and motoring can go hand in hand.
Wouldn't go any faster on a pedal bike, leave that to the stunt people.
Candle burns its brightest in the dark
Something like a Trek or Cannondale.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
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when I was employed (oh so long ago...) I biked to work 2-3 times a week, about 12 miles each way. Screw the e-bike, get the real thing. Peddling your ass that distance will get you in great shape. On top of that, I find cycling a lot less stressful than driving, it's relaxing really.
Once I was riding my bike to high-school and some jerk dumped their coke on me as they drove by. True Story. Had I been riding an e-bike, I might have been electrocuted.
TODO: come up with a clever sig
When I was a young geek of 9, I got my ham radio license.
I tricked my bike out with an old 2M radio bolted to the handlebars, 6V golf cart battery under the seat, and a whip antenna attached to the frame, down by the rear axle, running up like one of those flags
More than doubled the bike's weight. I was, however, the kid with a real mobile rig.
I only really talked to my parents with it, but it was still cool. And ultra-geeky.
Hehe
Do you really mean 35km/h on average? For how long? That is almost as good as a professional cyclist can get...
I've been riding a GoMotorboard 1500X that I got refurbished for $150 (down from $300 retail). It really does go 15MPH for about 10-15mi on flat, paved streets on a charge. Small hills (30 degrees) slow it to a crawl and eat the battery, but it keeps chugging, though the rises in Manhattan and most of Brooklyn are no problem. And the regenerative braking seems to work, albeit at much less than 100% efficiency. I've had some battery charging problems, but I got a couple replacements that I can now carry charged, extending its roundtrip charge life to up to 45mi or so. Best of all, it snaps down into a 25lb package over my shoulder, so 10 minute walks from subways are now 3-5 minutes. And it's really fun whizzing around nearly silently. But I wish it had inflatable (less efficient) tires, because the ride over any roughness, including sidewalk seams, can be too much. And quits immediately if the drivewheel gets even a little wet. Worth it.
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make install -not war
If it were me, I'd dump the lead-acid cells and use Li-Poly (Lithium Polymer).
Sure they're more expensive but they're much, much lighter due to their greater power density (hence a lot easier to pedal when you're not using the batteries).
Just make sure you use a real Li-Poly charger otherwise they could go bang.
I use a Velomobile to get to work and back (http://www.velomobiel.nl/). It is fast and wether proof. (and there is a lot of nasty wheter over here in the Netherlands.
Nyh
Why don't you help this guy instead of giving him advice he's not asking for?
I can't believe how pessimistic this slashdot crowd can be. Some guy wants to work on a new project to replace his car and all anyone can do is call him a fat ass.
What do you know about the kit that was linked in the article? It seems that this kit powers your front wheel, while you power the back with a stadard pedal arrangement. That's something I haven't seen in an ebike before. Would you be limited to going the fastest that the motor/gearbox in the front wheel can move, or would you be able to add your pedal power and the electric motor to move at a greater pace? I obviously see the potential for greater acceleration and easier to maintain speed while going uphill, etc, but I'd like to be able cruise at a high speed for longish distances. Or, alternatively, add a little extra speed to my cruising for long durations.
The battery, I agree looks pretty hefty, I'll be interested to see what the /. crowd comes up with on that. Does the "power braker" = a regenerative braking system, or is it some sort of power assited brake to help you slow down at higher speeds and with the extra weight?
I'm not sure why on the fuel cell, but from racing I can tell you a few things.
You can't (not as a fuel) buy ethanol, you can buy e-95 (95% ethanol, 5% methanol) Drinking ethanol (100% ethanol) is strictly taxed. They use e-80 and the like a lot in brazil instead of fossel-fuels. e-95 got a bad name as of late becouse it can be used in explosives with ease. Methanol works better as a fuel becouse it absorbs less water from the air (but is still really bad about it) and its cheaper. Also, it smells really good when its burning, but if you drink it, it will pickle your liver. In world war II the us used methonal in torpeados, some people still call it torpeado juice. Also methanol has a higher octain rating (really high, like 130 or something like that) and it can cool your manifold better then gas.
But that burns fossile fuels!!!!
Unlike the coal power plan that makes the electricity that charges your E-Bike...............
Friedmud
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If you can shower at work, it's easier, but it's also very possible to take it a little easy on the way in to work and not show up smelling. Then you get the option of hammering it on the way home or just taking it easy. :)
Good luck with whichever way you decide to get to work -- far better than hauling a 3000lb steel beast to and fro every day!
The poor guy asks for advice building an e-bike, and 50% of the +3 comments are "Why don't you just peddle (you lazy f*ck)?" Because I'm sure that thought NEVER CROSSED HIS MIND. Ever.
i dont know how many comments ive see that say something like "why dont you just peddle the bike and forget about the e-bike stuff"
..."
making jokes about being Tubby and this and that..
this is a common (but unfortunate) attitude i often find in the OSS community at large (bad pun, i know)
the question is NOT "what do you think about e-bikes" or "do you like the idea of
the question is about how to build one regardless of your opinion on the matter.
i often encounter this attitude in IRC aswell somebody asks a question about how to use a program and people say things like "what you are trying to do is stupid, you shouldnt be doing that at all, instead you should " rather than helping the person do what it is they are asking about in the first place.
point is: if you dont have something constructive to say that helps the person asking the question they are posing to you, butt out and let people who are actually interested in the specific topic in question to help add productive comments to the thread.
I thought he was talking about making a bike that
distributed WiFi... like this:
http://www.magicbike.net/
I read half the discussions about being a fat ass before
I realized what the hell was going on...
that'll teach me not to follow the links.
It's more predictably sunny here, so people can bike or walk more, I guess.
I live in the Netherlands, the weather sucks all the time, it's either raining and/or cold, or it's too warm/humid (happens a few days each year, rest of the time it's cold and raining), still we have more bicycles than people here, and no one wears a helmet. ofcourse, it's as flat as a pancake out here, so no crazy downhill speeds.
I think the reason bikes are so popular down here is that it's just too crowded for cars, and the distances are relatively short.
It's also probably the only country where it's perfectly normal to pick up your date on a bike.
After getting into BattleBots years ago, I decided to reduce my commute to college (before I graduated) by building an electric scooter out of "spare" parts. It's not an e-bike from the standpoint that I didn't want to have to input any energy into the system myself (i.e. the motors had to do all the work). For cost and simplicity reasons, I chose to go with SLA (sealed lead acid) batteries and a couple of overvolted motors. With the proper timing, I achieved a flat speed of 16.5 MPH on two 1HP motors. With 64Ah (@12V) of Pb-acid chemistry onboard (this weighed a whopping 50 pounds), I had a maximum range (tested on all terrain including large hills) of just over 12 miles.
:-)
That's what I did and perhaps you can learn from what I would have done differently. First off, I would have used NiMh batteries. This would have cut the weight in more than half and also would have allowed me to customize the pack more both in shape and capacity (I only needed to go 9 miles in a day). The only downside to this was the charge time. SLA batteries are pretty indestructible and I could charge the full 64Ah in around an hour. With NiMh, you're talking about several hours or less if you don't mind compromising lifespan (with the right charger you could charge the same capacity in NiMh in the same time if you didn't mind getting only ~100 charges out of your packs). If I had the cash, I would probably use the high capacity, high discharge Li-Ion batteries from PowerStream (http://www.powerstream.com/LL.htm) as they would be incredibly light (~10 pounds for the same capacity).
As far as the motors went, I was fairly satisfied with the power output, but would have liked more. If you compare it to a car (~100HP for ~2000 pounds), you should have ~10-15HP available for the same performance. Now with electric motors, due to their differing torque curves (in comparison to internal combustion engines), you can achieve similar results from significantly less overall horsepower, but I still would have preferred having 3-6HP on my project.
Of course, if you go with high output motors, you need a speed controller capable of handling the current. And if you go with the Li-Ion batts, you need a fairly expensive charger.
You can take a look at some basic pics of my scooter at:
http://sloviper.com/hobbies/scooter/index.html
A good place for parts is:
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/
Cheap Ni-Mh batteries can be found at:
http://www.batteryspace.com/
I have used them in BattleBots before and they hold up decently, almost as well as the "expensive" ones from http://www.battlepack.com/
If you have any specific questions, feel free to contact me. I love discussing this sort of thing and have had tons of experience.
In theory, theory always works in practice. In practice, theory rarely works. <><
I was coming down out of the mountains last year and got stuck behind some flatlander doing 35-40 mph around the curves. On that road it's all curves. The funny thing was, there was a bicycle behind him and the guy on the bike was tailgating the flatlander.
FYI, not all vehicles handle curves the same, nor do all tires. Also, many people don't want to feel the centrifugal force while going around the corner, or have everything in the back shift to the other side of the vehicle.
Is it the car commercials that creates the race-car mentality in most people? Is it the long commutes to work? What? Its amazing how irate people can become when you do "only" 5 mph over the speed limit. Or when you slow down on a curvy road so that your stopping distance is less then your field of vision. Speaking of stopping distance, its amazing how many people think that a 20 year old pickup, fully loaded, with trailer, will stop as quickly as a compact car. At least, that's what I'm assume they are thinking, why else would they pull out right in front of me?
Slow down.
I tricked my bike out with an old 2M radio bolted to the handlebars, 6V golf cart battery under the seat, and a whip antenna attached to the frame, down by the rear axle, running up like one of those flags
I have worked at three bike shops as a mechanic. One in the country, one in the city, and one in Sweden. At EACH AND EVERYONE, I have had at least one customer who had welded, screwed, or zip-tied a HAM or CB-type radio to their bicycle. I would like an explaination you sick HAM bastards! Why do you have to demand a better word for "weird"???
...there are already dozens of comments saying "Why don't you peddle your bike to work you lazy bastard".
It's PEDAL, not peddle! Peddling is marketing. Pedaling is using your feet on the pedals of a bicycle.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I was seduced by the idEa of an Ebike about 18 months ago.
I bought an Aprilia enjoy ebike.
This was not a Harley, but was certainly a fat and useless hog.
What a dog!!! about 4 (four!!!) km range going up and down hills here in Sydney.
So...I did what some other reader here suggested...bought myself a super duper light mountain bike, stuck some thin style phat boy kevlar tyres...pump'D them to 100 psi.
Man! You don't need a motor.
Float like a butterfly instead of riding the Hog.
Get a real bike. Should fuel cells...or flying cars ever emerge..then pigs too might fly.
Hi, I would avoid trying to deal with Golden Island Motor directly for ordering a single conversion kit, they don't do the english/communicating thing very well and the cost to wire transfer and ship just one hub motor will exceed the listed kit price considerably. You can get very similar value hub motors that are distributed locally through http://www.wildernessenergy.com/ and http://www.evsolutions.net/, a supplier of the http://www.crystalyte.com/. These are all direct drive motors, no gears to wear out and perfectly silent, but also fairly heavy for their power output.
I've also ordered reasonably cheap hub motors from http://www.elebike.com.tw/. They have an interesting selection including some internally geared models, and are quick to respond to queries.
Good Batteries continue to be the biggest hurdle for DIY e-bike experimenters because even though there are tons of asian companies that reportedly make them for cheap, there are simply no local suppliers. If you don't mind trying to import from China, some companies to check out:
1 http://www.peacebay.com/,
2 http://http//www.hyperbattery.com,
3 http://splendidbattery.com/,
4 http://www.gmbattery.com/,
5 http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/index.htm
Personally haven't ordered from 1 or 2 yet, 3 has very reasonably priced lithium polymer ($.82/watt-hour) and NiMH ($.40/w-hr) packs and will sell in individual qunatities. My favorite so far are the prismatic NiMH packs from 4, GMBattery, because you can access each individual cell and restack them easily. Finally there is the infamous thundersky who have lithium-ion batteries for less than most companies' NiMH. Their old 10Ah 36V setup had no protection circuitry and a few problems, but their new 20Ah 36V ebike pack looks a bit more reputable. Note that the 24V 4Ah NiMH packs from batteryspace.com that someone recomended are GARBAGE. Ours turned out to have only 2.6 Ah capacity and couldn't deliver more than about 5 amps. If you buy from batteryspace, be sure to get the 30Amp high rate pack.
Lead acid isn't really that bad if you're generally doing ~20km ish trips so you can get away with lower capacity pack. NiMH has about twice the energy density, and Lithium packs are 2-3 times better than NiMH.
I see a lot of people here have misconceptions about ebikes and exercise. I find I pedal as hard or harder riding an assisted bicycle than a regular bike. The difference is that I move at 42km/hr instead of 26, I don't slow down on the hills, and no matter how hard I work I don't get sweaty because the breeze at those speeds is so strong. This is a much overlooked fact of ebiking, the wind keeps you cool and dry.
Justin Lemire-ElmoreThis is a geek site. You're a geek, I'm a geek, we're all...
As a geek you need body activity because sitting behind the screen just doesn't get you any. So get yourself a regular/racing/mountain bike.
Within a couple of weeks you notice a better condition and an increasing average speed. And, if you really need to, you can add a cardio/speedometer to increase the geeky factor.
As a real geek you could also get into the details of bike training. The different body types and their specialties, the different goals in training (muscle building, endurance, agility, fat burning etc...), the food to take etc, etc...
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
I have been biking to work now for almost a year. I've long since gotten in shape, and I have no problems with hills or smelling at work (just change cloths, it takes 1 minuet).
But there are days I just don't feel upto it. Seriously. Sometimes I just didn't get enough sleep, sometimes I'm sick (though rarely thanx to all that regular exercise), and sometimes I'm bruised from falling off my bike. So some times I'm just not capable of putting out that much effort.
It would be nice to have something that could pick up the slack. "Help" pedal as it were so that I can still ride my bike, even when I don't have the energy. There may be days when I don't have the energy to ride, but there is never a day that I don't want to ride.
That and for longer inter-city trips, some kind help would also be good.
But batteries don't have any where near the power density for longer intercity trips. And the system ways so much that it's more of a burden than a help on daily commutes. (since most days you won't need it)
I know I'll get flaimed for it, but what about a small petrol/gas motor? Easy to refule, there often made light weight, and have the power to make a real difference in both scenarios.
I would rather be ashes than dust!
At ZVO, we tackled that series of problems and created an e-bike that's light (39 lb.), easy to pedal and uses whatever gearing is currently on the bike -- from derailleurs to hub transmissions. As a result, we have a bike that will do over 35 MPH and climb hills, as well, without pedaling, but encourages dual drive modality -- pedal with motor assist -- for the most daunting hills while you're training.
http://www.zvoinc.com/
We don't think powering a bike is sacrilegeous. Anything that gets more people out among other folks and encourages a sense of community is a good thing. Anything that relieves road congestion is a good thing. Anything that encourages excercising more than the right foot is a good thing.