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IBM Introduces Biometric Thinkpad

An anonymous reader writes "IBM has added biometric security to its thinkpad notebooks. The next generation of T series thinkpads will have an integrated fingerprint scanner for added security. The latest machines will also include some pretty cool encryption software, that will keep your hard disk safe, but still let you backup and restore images. This guy managed to get his hands on an early prototype T42 with the new security features integrated."

195 comments

  1. swipe scan by dirvish · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "IBM has chosen to go with a swipe-scanner rather than a touch-scanner, for a number of reasons. First and foremost is that a swipe-scanner provides better security. Because you have to drag your fingertip across the scanner, there is no way to "lift" a fingerprint from the surface."

    That is a great idea. Such an elegant solution to what could have been a big problem.

    1. Re:swipe scan by saderax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ...except for the multitude of partial prints left all over the keyboard and the touchpad...

    2. Re:swipe scan by cynic10508 · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is a great idea. Such an elegant solution to what could have been a big problem.

      Actually, the swipe scanner is cheaper, consumes less power, and has a smaller footprint than the original designs. So it's really best suited for devices such as cell phones, PDAs, etc.

    3. Re:swipe scan by cynic10508 · · Score: 1

      ...except for the multitude of partial prints left all over the keyboard and the touchpad...

      Hmm. I guess the question then becomes: How accurate of a digital recreation can we make from partials? If it's enough to pass biometric verification then there's no need to waste money/time on a fingerprint scanner.

    4. Re:swipe scan by Dman33 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I love the swipe scanner that I have been using on my Ipaq H5450 for the past few years.

      (I always wondered why this was not common on laptops when it has been common on my PDA for so long...)

    5. Re:swipe scan by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That is a great idea. Such an elegant solution to what could have been a big problem.

      Or maybe not - what is wrong with a lock and key to open the laptop?

      Not only would it protect the data, it would prevent the HD and DVD combo from being stolen from the laptop while its sitting on the desk (happened to two colleagues lately).

      And stop the keyboard from being damaged by children and small animals.

      Given that the T series have titanium cases, a lot of force would be needed to open them and they would probably be wrecked if forced open (assuming a suitably strong lock.) This is the feature I want most next time I buy a T series (I have an IPaq with fingerprint recognition, and its great, but I would still prefer a lock and key for the laptop (I have a T series - they are great too).

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    6. Re:swipe scan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you retarded? I'm just asking, because I really like retards. Honest.

    7. Re:swipe scan by Mordaximus · · Score: 1
      except for the multitude of partial prints left all over the keyboard and the touchpad.

      Well, at least it's a little better than yellow sticky notes with 'passw0rd' written on them stuck to the monitor :)

    8. Re:swipe scan by MindStalker · · Score: 1

      Whatcha going to do with it then? The swip scanner is filled with a bunch of electrical points and measures resistance between those points as your finger runs across it, so its not really a fingerprint scanner, as it is scanning the changes in resistance due to the textured surface of your finger. Hard to duplicate

    9. Re:swipe scan by Oliver+Wendell+Jones · · Score: 1

      A lock and key is only good if you make it a point to lock it each and every time you get up from your desk. Your laptop can be just as easily stolen as you make a quick run to the restroom as it can be if you left it unattended overnight.

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing -- Emo Phillips
    10. Re:swipe scan by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      I suppose you could lift the pattern, create a mold, then create some sort of silicone version of the said finger, complete with grooves, and try to swipe that.

    11. Re:swipe scan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perfect recreation, and it's easy to do. It's been on Slashdot already twice. You can do it yourself with household equipment.

    12. Re:swipe scan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      ... and has a smaller footprint than ...

      I'm afraid you completely misunderstood the article. You are supposed to swipe your finger across the scanner, not your foot!

      I hope this helped!

    13. Re:swipe scan by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but an attacker would probably only find out after taking the laptop. And trust me, they normally won't bring them back after finding out. And you can always get the drive, DVD, battery and harddisk out after trashing the case.

    14. Re:swipe scan by crypto2600 · · Score: 1

      Time to see how well gummy finger prints work on capacitative fingerprint scanners.

      --
      Push to test, release to detonate...
  2. Remember your friends by lifeblender · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does this mean you can hack it to record your friends' (or co-workers') fingerprints? Sounds fun and scary.

    --
    Playing pornographics games during the day is evil! Play at night!
    1. Re:Remember your friends by tanguyr · · Score: 5, Informative

      Does this mean you can hack it to record your friends' (or co-workers') fingerprints? Sounds fun and scary.

      No, you can't. From the article:
      "Of course since the Power On security layer is something that occurs well before Windows has started up, the fingerprint data can't be stored in a Windows file or folder. Instead, the fingerprint scanner itself stores the fingerprint data and retrieves it when the Power On security request is made. You can store a total of 21 profiles in the scanner, which should be more than enough, unless you share one notebook between a score of users. If you're worried about someone extracting the fingerprint data from the scanner and breaking your security, dont be. The scanner only stores a tiny amount of data for each fingerprint, just enough to ensure an accurate match, and nowhere near enough to recreate a complete fingerprint."

      --
      #!/usr/bin/english
    2. Re:Remember your friends by adelord · · Score: 1, Redundant

      so there isn't a data file containing compleate fingerprints. great. you will just have to lift one off of the case or keys. esp with the added sense of security, other users in the office will be much more likely to let someone borrow the computer, and how much extra encryption do you the average user would use? none. with my skill set it would be much easier to make a fake finger from a lifted print than attemt to crack a password, and you can bet that most users will have the biometric reading take the place of a password.

      --
      Eugene Debs: "Money constitutes no proper basis of civilization"
    3. Re:Remember your friends by swordboy · · Score: 2, Funny

      A new definition for "hacking":

      Pronunciation: 'hak-ing
      Function: verb
      The process of removing someone's finger so that you can gain access to their Thinkpad.

      I'm just glad it isn't retina scanning. Ouch!

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    4. Re:Remember your friends by tanguyr · · Score: 1

      actually, it's very easy: if people are willing to let you borrow the computer, they will be willing to log you onto it (unless they're lending it to you to use as a doorstop or something) or even add your fingerprint to the list of authorized fingerprints.

      "...make a fake finger from a lifted print..." - don't make me laugh. You watch too much tv mate: the first thing to try when you want somebody's password is asking them for it.

      --
      #!/usr/bin/english
    5. Re:Remember your friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      You can store a total of 21 profiles in the scanner, which should be more than enough, unless you share one notebook between a score of users.


      I guess they don't realize a score is 20?

    6. Re:Remember your friends by accelleron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The scanner only stores a tiny amount of data for each fingerprint, just enough to ensure an accurate match"

      Unless I'm an idiot, this means that the amount of data the scanner stores is inversely proportional to its accuracy. For example, if one were to store a critical 20% of the data neccessary to recreate a fingerprint, with use of the partials on the keyboard and the top of the laptop, one should be able to recreate the print accurately enough using means like a laser (3d) printer, a bit of spare rubber, and anything with a curved surface. Since the scanner is not 100% accurate, it would confirm, anyway.

      Besides, this laptop defeats its own purpose. How difficuilt would it be for someone to make a 1:1 image of the hard drive and decrypt it. Or, if you were pressed on time for the encryption, simply to pop the hood,remove the box, and emulate a 'success' signal with use of a relatively simple circuit, something one could construct in an hour with a soldering iron and proper documentation.

      All in all, this is a fun toy, but oh so useless.

      --
      Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
    7. Re:Remember your friends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. But it must store enough information about the fingerprint to authenticate the user. It must be (at least theoretically) possible to extract that information from the NVRAM and recreate a good enough print.

      Or you could just lift the fingerprint off the enter-key. :)

  3. hal by TedCheshireAcad · · Score: 5, Funny

    I tried one of these laptops for a while, took me weeks to get the thing to stop calling me Dave.

    1. Re:hal by jpetts · · Score: 1

      For those fans of "Only Fools and Horses," does anybody else think that Trig must be a re-incarnation of HAL-9000, since he keeps on calling Rodney "Dave"?

      --
      Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
  4. Micron has biometric support by CyberSlugGump · · Score: 5, Informative


    Some models of Micron laptops have had this feature for a while.

    1. Re:Micron has biometric support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Then why didn't they post this on slashdot earlier? You are a shameless liar! If it's not on slashdot, it doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Micron has biometric support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's not on slashdot, it doesn't exist.

      And if it is on slashdot, it's a year out-of-date. Which brings us to the slashdot paradox: where are all the products during their first year?

  5. Bloomberg keyboards have had biometrics for a whil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Just saying IBM is fanot first to embed biometrics with their standard hardware.

  6. But... by Sensible+Clod · · Score: 5, Interesting

    will IBM include linux support?

    --

    The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
    1. Re:But... by wolftone · · Score: 1

      Seems likely given the bluecurve roots of the fingerprint software window. The proof is in the pudding (or, rather, the networking cards), though.

    2. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG u are teh funniez!!!!11

      Obviously flamebait as IBM is a major supporter of linux.

    3. Re:But... by temojen · · Score: 2, Informative
      Obviously flamebait as IBM is a major supporter of linux.

      And yet, the ThinkPad configurator (at least on their Canadian site) has options for Windows XP Home or Professional, but no Linux distributions (nor BSD) and no "no operating system" option.

    4. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      will IBM include linux support?


      I assume that this takes the place of the current power-up password. In that case linux/windows support is irrelevant.

      It simply pauses the hardware boot until the challenge is met and then goes on to boot whatever is in the boot sector of the default drive.

    5. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeat after me: IBM does not support Linux on the desktop. IBM does not support Linux on the desktop. IBM does not ...

    6. Re:But... by saintlupus · · Score: 1

      Probably not.

      We had a couple of IBM salesmen at work last week, and this was one of the cool upcoming features that they were crowing about. Another one was an embedded chip that stores a whole bunch of passwords and other "sensitive" data, sort of like a hardware version of the Keychain that Apple has built into their OSes for years.

      Also Windows only.

      Dammit.

      --saint

  7. IBM is pretty cool by zoloto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was just at their website configuring a laptop for a business purchace. While I have to say their range of laptops are pretty slick their UI designer should be shot.

    Back on topic now, this laptop is nifty in itself. EArlier on another /. article, the hordes were in an uproar about the data security module in laptops. After seeing one on the website and with technical information, both the prior articles mentioning and this new biometric feature are for the purpose of protecting the users data from theft and not for "corporations" protection against "us". It wasn't engineered that way. Maybe in a few years that will happen, but to appease the paranoid crowd here - this is _FOR_ us. not against.

    =) happy /.ing

  8. Safe... but from whom? by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If they designed it in such a way that the LEA backdoor is secure (say, it's got an LEA public key on it, and the private key is kept in the forensics labs), I'll buy one tomorrow. I don't have a need to defend against .gov adversaries - I just want to know that the data on my drives remains secure even after someone steals 'em to get his or her crack fix.

    If, however, they designed it in such a way that the backdoor is not secure (say, a default password stored in cleartext on a serial EEPROM), that's another story. I'll download the crack when it comes out next week, and my soldering iron and I will have an endless supply of cheap entertainment when the machines start showing up at the surplus stores in 2009.

    1. Re:Safe... but from whom? by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 1

      I'll download the crack when it comes out next week, and my soldering iron and I will have an endless supply of cheap entertainment when the machines start showing up at the surplus stores in 2009.br>
      Good thinking, you will need something to do in the evenings anyway...since Conan O Brien is taking the tonight show.

    2. Re:Safe... but from whom? by Iorek · · Score: 1
      ... I don't have a need to defend against .gov adversaries...

      That may be true, but, playing devil's advocate, just because information (e.g., keys) is stored on government information systems doesn't mean that the government is the only body who has access to it. You are implicitly relying on a specific department or agency to secure their information systems.

    3. Re:Safe... but from whom? by jcr · · Score: 1

      If they designed it in such a way that the LEA backdoor is secure

      If it's got an LEA backdoor, it's broken by definition.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  9. I feel sorry for... by cbw82 · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...John Doe from Se7en. If he buys one of these how in the world will he ever get past the added security?

    1. Re:I feel sorry for... by Stevyn · · Score: 1

      He'll just use someone else's hand.

  10. Yes, but... by ProudClod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can it be fooled simply and easily by a piece of jelly, like most fingerprint scanners on the market. Surely you can drag the jelly across.

    --
    Gamers Europe - Gaming News. Reviews.
    1. Re:Yes, but... by avalys · · Score: 1

      The difference though, is that you can't lift a fingerprint from a swipe scanner, like you can with an ordinary flat one.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Yes, but... by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      The weird thing is, this sort of fakery has been well-covered in fiction,[1,2] so one would think that manufacturers would be concerned with it.

      William

      [1] Steve Perry's Matador series has instances of people using fake palm prints to open doors secured by a palm lock --- for that matter, Frank Herbert's _Dune_ has the Bene Gesserit ``witch'' Jessica opening a palm lock w/o any tools / fake print.

      [2] more disturbingly, Timothy Zahn's _Blackcollar_ has mention of instances (in the past) where a person's head and hands are severed so as to allow access to an area secured by retinal and fingerprint scanners --- in the book, mention of said instances is used as a threat to force a captive's cooperation.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
    3. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the great game System Shock, the player needs to find a severed head that is in good shape in order to get past a retina scanner. Fun for the whole family.

      (Abe Ghiran's head on maintenance level is the usual one, but there's also another head hidden in a sort of cubbyhole on hospital level.)

    4. Re:Yes, but... by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2, Informative

      Probably not ... the I-paq one allegedy uses the thermal imprint and not optical, so you would need jelly with suitable infrastructure of arteries and veins.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:Yes, but... by HalfStarted · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even if it can... it is not totally useless. Strong authentication theory basically says for an authentication method to really be strong it has to be comprised of two parts: something you have, and something you know.

      Biometric measurements are attractive candidates for the "something you have" part because they are unique, in most cases easy to read and convenient... i.e. never left behind. On there own though they do not provide a strong authentication solution... but even then, a large bit-length key on a USB or serial device does not provide strong authentication on its own as the key can always be stolen or compromised.

      A finger print tied to a password on the other hand renders the entire system much, much more secure. It is up for debate if this is more secure in general than a key/password solution though... the trade off is something that is easier to use, more convenient for the user in hopes that it is used and used correctly vs a solution that is inherently stronger but more cumbersome for the user and more likely to be abused (leaving the key plugged in all the time for instance).


      Comparing fingerprints to a USB key as a solution to the "something you have" challenge in a security response:

      Fingerprint:

      + Impractical to steal
      + Always with you
      + Standard format
      - Relatively easy to forge for optical scanners
      - May change over time

      USB Key:

      + Hard to forge
      + Stable format
      - Not always on hand, could be left behind, lost, forgotten
      - Can be stolen
      - More difficult to provide a standard interface

      One of the reasons I personally favor keys, while they can be stolen the effort required to secure a key based token is much easier than the effort required to prevent leaving fingerprints around (unless you want to start wearing gloves all the time). Also if your key based token is stolen (or lost) you know it is gone, until you detect a break-in after the fact you will not know if a print has been forged... you would probably be aware if someone stole a print by removing a finger though ;)

      In my own (non-expert opinion) I would rank various authentication techniques as follows from most secure to least:


      Long bit-length token + Strong Password
      Strong Biometric measurement + Strong Password
      Weak Biometric measurement + Strong Password
      Long bit-length token
      Strong Biometric measurement
      Strong Password
      Weak Biometric measurement

      Not going even bother including weak passwords and not counting improper use/storage of tokens and devices (I consider weak passwords improper use btw). Weak Biometric measurements would be something like optical scanning, strong measurements are stuff like eye prints and thermal scanning/imaging.

      --


      Have you thought for yourself today?
    6. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      > The difference though, is that you can't lift a fingerprint from a swipe scanner

      It doesn't matter that a swpie scanner lacks a clean fingerprint when th keyboard, mount and care have many good fingerprints from which to form a swipable forgery!

    7. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah! That's right. No one uses a real finger behind the jelly. By the way, are you interested in this mighty fine bridge I have for sale?

    8. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is a fingerprint impractical to steal?

      Whoa! Pass the pipe, dude!

      You don't watch much TV, do you? Police "steal" fingerprints all the time.

    9. Re:Yes, but... by HalfStarted · · Score: 1

      Read my post again and actually think about it this time. I made a distinction between stealing a token and forging a token. The reason this distinction is important is that you are aware of a theft (missing finger or token) but may not be aware of a forgery because you still have yours and the person attempting to crack your system is using an illicit copy.

      The significance of this is that while it is hard/unlikely to physically take your fingerprint from you, while not trivial, it is not extremely difficult to forge a copy of your fingerprint. A cryptographically strong token is much harder to forge, but much easier to pick up and walk away with if not properly attended.

      Which leads to the engineering decision... which system is better? Is it harder to protect my fingerprint from being copied or is it harder to protect a physical token from being stolen. In the closing of my post I even state that I favor keys over fingerprints for just this very reason, I do believe it is easier to protect a key from theft than it is to protect my fingerprint from forgery.

      In your rush to post what you though was a witty comment must have missed all this. Try reading and understanding... then make a witty comment about the real issue, that I didn't make a point clearly. You won't come off as a big of a fool next time.

      Oh, and we all know that EVERYTHING we see in TV crime drama's are accurate portrayals of real life.

      --


      Have you thought for yourself today?
    10. Re:Yes, but... by Cuthalion · · Score: 1

      A finger print tied to a password on the other hand

      ... writing passwords on your hand I guess is a lot more secure than Post-It notes.

      --
      Trees can't go dancing
      So do them a big favor
      Pretend dancing stinks!
  11. Linux? by IroNuckles · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The model in this review is running WinXP. I wonder if the fingerprinting software is available for Linux?

  12. At last! by ratta · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Now i know where i can buy DRM'ed computer!!!

    --
    Wondering why i am doing so strange posts? I am trying to get a "+5,Flamebait" or "-1,Insightful" rating.
  13. Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can't wait to see all the support websites.

    "Cut my finger slicing tomoatoes, can't access my Thinkpad, HELP!!"

    1. Re:Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by jormurgandr · · Score: 4, Informative

      That would be the reason why it allows you to store multiple profiles, and actively encourages users to store more than one finger, and on more than one hand (just look at the screenshots).

    2. Re:Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by cynic10508 · · Score: 1

      and actively encourages users to store more than one finger

      This goes back to the same problem as strong passwords. You can encourage users to make strong passwords, but they (or a significant portion) won't unless you require them to.

    3. Re:Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by LordNimon · · Score: 1

      As a New Yorker, I have some great ideas for the profile that is accessed with my middle finger.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    4. Re:Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then I suppose we'll have the X-Files type case where someone stole his laptop and his right hand too. Sorta like car jacking.

    5. Re:Can't Access My Computer Please Help!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a step forward for dual-boot machines...

      index finger = Linux, middle finger = XP.

  14. But what happens... by DHalcyon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When I break my Finger? I need my files, you know...

    1. Re:But what happens... by mobby_6kl · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can set it up to use more than one finger, so if you break one you can use the one on the other hand, in case all fingers on the first hand are broken/cut off/missing.

    2. Re:But what happens... by dr_dank · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I break my Finger? I need my files, you know...

      Sounds like a good pretense for Social Engineering ones way into such a system.

      --
      Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
    3. Re:But what happens... by Tore+S+B · · Score: 1

      Hmmm - why do you call them fingers, when I've never seen them fing?

      --
      toresbe
  15. Interface like iPAQ by grunt107 · · Score: 1

    The fingerprint setup software looks identical to the iPAQ that has the bioscan feature. That was a PktPC app, tho, so the real issue is whether someone will develop a Linux bio-encrypter for this laptop.

    Otherwise it would remain a Win-only feature and useless to the converts.

  16. The Mafia loves it already! by Schreckgestalt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now the Mafia have finally got another reason to cut your fingers off! And they can shoot you before you talk, as you don't have to talk.

    1. Re:The Mafia loves it already! by JoeBuck · · Score: 1

      They don't need your finger, just your fingerprint, from any surface. Then they make a fake finger from your fingerprint, as described in this article.

    2. Re:The Mafia loves it already! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's one small problem with the paper you referenced. The method they use to create the gummy finger requires the live one to be pressed into a mold for 10 minutes. If you have that kind of access to the person you're better of cutting off his finger.

      That doesn't sound anymore insecure to me.
      Either they have your finger or they don't.

      Personally I like the idea of giving my machine the middle finger before each startup. It sets the modd for the entire session. ;-)

  17. A bit of false security. by grub · · Score: 1


    If Bad Guys really want your data, they'll take you along with your laptop and say "Unlock your machine or we'll cut off fingers until we find the one that works. Starting with your toes."

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:A bit of false security. by ggvaidya · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if your data is worth *that* much, I suppose you'll have a better way of protecting it, won't you? For most of the stuff on my computer, I'd just laugh and give them my password if it came to that ...

    2. Re:A bit of false security. by avalys · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Under threat of physical violence, most security systems that involve humans tend to break down.

      I'd give up my PGP private key to someone who put a gun to my head - that doesn't mean that PGP itself is insecure.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    3. Re:A bit of false security. by cakefool · · Score: 1

      I like your style - If i could, I'd hire you

  18. I realize IBM is a mainstream notebook company... by Infinite93 · · Score: 4, Informative
    But Motorola has sold a laptop with this for law enforcement for over a year now.

    http://ruggedpower.motorola.com/ Our local PD has them for detectives. Heavy, but nice feature set.

  19. Hype Factor 9 by cynic10508 · · Score: 4, Informative

    For an IT manager, biometric security will make life much easier. Gone will be all those phone calls from users who've forgotten their passwords. And there will be no more worries about insecure passwords, or even keystroke loggers, trapping passwords and passing them onto hackers and fraudsters.

    Gone may be phone calls for forgotten passwords but there'll be plenty of new calls as to why their fingerprints aren't scanning. The function of accuracy for fingerprint scanners varies according to things such as the skin's elasticity. This changes with age, humidity, cuts, etc. So biometrics aren't a 100% fix. There will always be "goats," the people for whom biometrics just doesn't work well, including the biometrics professor around here who's missing a fingertips (not due to any experiment mishap, mind you). I'd also worry about the security of your stored biometric data. Hopefully it'd be a hash and not the raw data, which could be harvested and used. Then again, I wonder what the incidence of collisions in a hash that uses biometric data is?

    1. Re:Hype Factor 9 by JimBobJoe · · Score: 1

      Well you beat me to revealing the PR hype. In addition, if the fingerprint suddenly stops working for some reason (let's say our employee was bricklaying the last weekend, or doing an intensive Vitamin C exfoliation) is there a way of getting the computer to boot? And if there is, what's the point? It's just expensive snake oil.

    2. Re:Hype Factor 9 by Slak · · Score: 1

      But an increase in calls to helpdesk along the lines of: "I forgot my fingerprint, could you reset it please?"

    3. Re:Hype Factor 9 by lesinator · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not only easier, but also more secure. A common username and password is only 1-factor authentication (they're both something you can know). Using a username and biometric is 2-factor authentication (in this case, someting you are and something you know). For 3 factor authentication you need to cover: something you know, something you have, and something you are.

      Biometrics stored for authentication are stored in a reduced, non-reversable format. Its designed to be searched and matched, but not extracted.

      L

    4. Re:Hype Factor 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > if the fingerprint suddenly stops working for some reason... is there a way of
      > getting the computer to boot?

      Knowing IBM - not easily, no.

    5. Re:Hype Factor 9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll believe anything a sales person says, won't you?

      A fingerprint is also something you know.

      Imprinting your own in gelatine is trivial, fools almost all detectors on the market all the time (including the "ooh we're so secure, we use thermometers and mindreading and and" type).

      You can lift them off just about any object the owner has touched with his bare hands recently.

  20. False security by GraWil · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This is nothing more than false security for pointy haired induhviduals. A clueful cracker with console access can usually get access to data. If the laptop is stolen, so is the data and no fingerprint widget will prevent it.
    But what makes SafeGuard Easy so special is that it works with IBM's own Rescue and Recovery utility. The problem with encrypted data is that when you try to restore an image of an encrypted hard drive, all the data, including the boot records just look like garbage to the restore program. But with SafeGuard Easy, you can keep the entire contents of your drive encrypted, and still be safe in the knowledge that should your hard disk crash, you can restore all your data to a new drive despite the fact that it's encrypted.
    Has anyone here used or admined IBM's lotus notes? I feel real good about trusting IBM with my encrypted HD.
    1. Re:False security by Kenja · · Score: 0
      "Has anyone here used or admined IBM's lotus notes? I feel real good about trusting IBM with my encrypted HD."

      <Lotus Domino Joke>It can only encrypt 64k of data.</Lotus Domino Joke>

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:False security by browncs · · Score: 3, Informative
      Has anyone here used or admined IBM's lotus notes? I feel real good about trusting IBM with my encrypted HD.

      Are you aware that:

      • Lotus Notes had the first commercial implementation of a Public Key Infrastructure (PKI), and it's still by far the largest commercial deployment of a PKI.
      • Lotus Notes has never had a security incident where a virus or worm successfully attacked it via Notes native interfaces or e-mail. (There have been some security patches required in the Internet-compatible interfaces.)
    3. Re:False security by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 1

      Lotus Notes has never had a security incident where a virus or worm successfully attacked it via Notes native interfaces or e-mail. (There have been some security patches required in the Internet-compatible interfaces.)

      Would that be because it runs on a popular OS that has a security model based on Swiss cheese, thus eliminating the need to crack the app? I am actually asking not trolling, I do not know what Notes runs on.

    4. Re:False security by darkwhite · · Score: 3, Informative

      A clueful cracker with console access can usually get access to data. If the laptop is stolen, so is the data

      RTFM.

      Do you know how password protection and data encryption works on laptops? No, you don't.

      There are several layers of security involved. First, the BIOS and the HDD both have password authentication mechanism. The BIOS stores its passwords on a custom chip which scrambles its I/O. Resetting the BIOS master password is possible, but it requires a highly modified chip programmator and a skillful person.

      The HDD stores its password on the platter and requires it before it will allow access to any data. To bypass this mechanism, you must engineer your own HDD controller chip which will skip the authentication and the PCB for it and transplant it in place of the one on the HDD. This is virtually impossible unless you have very good friends in the HDD manufacturer company.

      Finally, after the HDD allows access, the software encrypts selected files using strong encryption and stores the keys on the secure (TCPA) chip. The secure chip requires a passphrase before it will allow access to the keystore. It is virtually impossible to bypass this and retrieve the keys from the secure chip without knowing the passphrase.

      Therefore, to retrieve the data from the stolen laptop's HDD, you must first possess either extreme competence in electronics or extremely good illicit connections in the industry, and second, brute-force industrial-strength encryption on the files. Good luck.

      --

      [an error occurred while processing this directive]
    5. Re:False security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Err... Notes (and Domino - the server) runs on pretty much everything.

      Windows, Mac OS, UNIX, Linux, yaa yaa yaa

    6. Re:False security by lachlan76 · · Score: 1

      This is virtually impossible unless you have very good friends in the HDD manufacturer company.

      Until someone in some other country with a chip fab does it, and then starts selling the controller boards.

    7. Re:False security by browncs · · Score: 1
      Err... Notes (and Domino - the server) runs on pretty much everything. Windows, Mac OS, UNIX, Linux, yaa yaa yaa

      Actually, these days, the Notes client runs only on Windows and the Mac. You are correct that it used to run on Unix workstations, and also OS/2 -- but, not supported any more. However, IBM has a new series of collaborative software called IBM Lotus Workplace, which does support Linux workstations.

      The Domino server runs pretty much everywhere: Windows, Linux on x86, AIX, Solaris, the IBM iSeries, the IBM z/OS mainframe, and (remarkably) on Linux running on the IBM zSeries mainframe.

  21. Why is this useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    To stop the casual snooper? Screensaver passwords do that already.

    If the thief has physical access to the machine, nothing short of encryption is going to prevent him or her from getting at your data.

    1. Re:Why is this useful? by lamber45 · · Score: 1
      If the thief has physical access to the machine, nothing short of encryption is going to prevent him or her from getting at your data.

      If you had read the article, you would have seen that this device can protect the BIOS password, Windows passwords and a hard-drive encryption suite. It sounds like a substantial obstacle to the typical thief. Of course, you should probably still be careful with really-sensitive data; PGP and daily virus scanning would be a good idea...

    2. Re:Why is this useful? by temojen · · Score: 1
      ...nothing short of encryption...

      Which this laptop also has.

    3. Re:Why is this useful? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did read the article. I don't see how the bioscanner adds much in the way of security. Even if the BIOS doesn't allow me to start the laptop, I can always rip the harddrive out and put it in an enclosure. If you allow scenarious where the attacker has physical access to the machine, encryption is the only way to go.

      I'm sure there has to be some backdoor around the bioscanner built in also.

  22. Re:Biometric? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, IBM had to wait for MS to finish longhorn first...

  23. Re:yeah, but... by tindur · · Score: 1

    I would really like to know whether it will be possible to use fingerprint based encryption with Linux. TFA says it steps in before Windows.

  24. Notebook Nirvana... by NetJunkie · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I love my Thinkpad. I had a T30 before that stayed on 24/7 for over a year. The only time it was turned off was to/from vacation. The rest of the time it was a workhorse. Now I have a T42P and love it as much or more. Functional and VERY stable. Sure, it doesn't have some super new gizmos like others, but it works every time.

    Every time someone asks me about a notebook I recommend IBM. They go out to Best Buy and get some other brand with 20 other options they don't need and then get mad when it breaks or isn't stable. Thanks IBM!

  25. YOUR RIGHTS ONLINE - IBM is bad news by stratjakt · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Yesterday when mikey announced IBM would be shipping more computers with "trusted" technologies, you all cried and threw a fit about it.

    Now some of that hardware is reviewed and you can't get over how neato it is.

    What about "your rights online" people!?

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
  26. Are genitals unique? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Please push your scrotum on the biometric sensor to login."

    1. Re:Are genitals unique? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes genitals are unique.

      As a matter of fact, I have a vagina scanner right here. Who wants to step up for a test?

  27. Hmm...You Disappoint me.. by Ramsey-07 · · Score: 0

    I suppose then no one has considered the benefits of having an extra finger on each hand... One to login, and one to stick up infront of all the early posters... Where do I sign up! Only now when you get your laptop stolen, your fingerprint is still all over the laptop/screen/keyboard so theres no point!?!

  28. I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by CyberLord+Seven · · Score: 4, Interesting
    This is cool though. I like how IBM put the fingerprint ID tech in front of Windows. That means Linux based OSs can also take advantage of this when these machines are being sold as refurbished in a few years.

    I'm a little disappointed that the encryption stuff may not transfer well to non-Windows OSs.

    Now what happens when someones finger is damaged to due fire, electrical shock, or blunt trauma? I had this problem with an old Compaq laptop that had a system password at the BIOS level. It made the laptop permanently mine since I didn't want to disclose my password to anyone else.

    I know there's room for 21 different fingerprints, but I wonder how many end users are going to think to register more than one of their fingers...just in case.

    --
    We have always been at war with Eurasia!
    1. Re:I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by hng_rval · · Score: 1

      I would be very surprised if IBM didn't create a Linux version of this encryption software themselves . They are very Linux friendly and are always making strides to port their software for their hardware to Linux.

      --
      Thank you Mario! But our princess is in another castle!
    2. Re:I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by BeBoxer · · Score: 2, Funny

      I know there's room for 21 different fingerprints, but I wonder how many end users are going to think to register more than one of their fingers...just in case.

      21 fingerprint slots, eh? That's enough for all my fingers and all my toes with one leftover. What's the 21st one for?

    3. Re:I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by emorphien · · Score: 1

      your weener, if you've got one

      --


      Presently here, but not there.
    4. Re:I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by Sepodati · · Score: 1

      21 fingerprint slots, eh? That's enough for all my fingers and all my toes with one leftover. What's the 21st one for?

      People in West Virginia and Alabama?

      ---John Holmes...

    5. Re:I feel sorry for someone who loses a finger. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 21th one is for your dick. haha

  29. Re:yeah, but... by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 1

    Typically posed as a trollish question, this author may or may not have had trolling in mind. I for one would like to know if there are any plans for the T42 Biometric laptops to have Linux run on them.

  30. Ugh.. this could go wrong.. by trisight · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Am I the only one that sees where this can lead? How long will it take to condition people to use these things before they come mandatory in computers and have to be used.. most especially what if they become mandatory for internet connections.. I'm sure the RIAA and the MPAA would just love that..

    This is what happens.. they give you a wolf in sheeps clothing.. and for awhile that wolf stays dorment and you like it and you pet .. it's naughty.. it's a naughty little sheep.. and then all of a sudden .. oh my GOD WE'VE BEEN SUED.. WE'VE BEEN SUED AND THROWN INTO JAIL.. ahem.. maybe not.. but still.. I worry about companies doing things like this.

    --

    The Nomad
    "Men of lofty genius when they are doing the least work are most active."-da Vinci
  31. If you don't want an IBM... by IronChefMorimoto · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you don't want an IBM Thinkpad for the fingerprint scanner, the APC fingerprint scanner/biometric reader seems to work pretty well. I saw it for $29 or so at Fry's yesterday.

    My friend bought one a while back and used it rather successfully on his Dell D800 before he had to give the computer back to his employer. It was pretty accurate in scanning his fingerprint. He never got locked out of his machine.

    I can't remember if the machine would NOT allow a login without the reader or not. If it would, then that sort of defeats the purpose of the reader if you were able to steal the laptop without the reader attached.

    IronChefMorimoto

  32. Nice until... by DroopyStonx · · Score: 0

    ...you take the HD out and slap it into a Linux box and read the contents anyway, totally overstepping the added security.

    Makes it kinda pointless.

    --
    We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
    1. Re:Nice until... by Halo- · · Score: 1
      No, that's just the point. The encryption is done by the HD firmware, not the OS. It's just like the present IBM (now Fujitsu) drives which have a BIOS password. It doesn't matter where to install the drive, the chips that say: "move the head here" don't do anything until provided with the password. It used to be you had to do a platter transplant to get around this, but I think there is some way to recover now, but it still requires a factory tech and isn't something like a backdoor password.

      A linux box will get the same encrypted stuff as the windows box without the fingerprint. (Of course, I doubt their will be Linux drivers, so even with the fingerprint you may be hosed...)

    2. Re:Nice until... by Eccles · · Score: 1

      If you had read the article (I know, I make funny joke), you would know that the hard drive is also encrypted.

      --
      Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
    3. Re:Nice until... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh, but you forget that the HD is encrypted and let's not forget about the HD password.

  33. Good for security, annoying for everything else by dreadfire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In theory and from what I have read on the article, it will be a great device for security. But I don't think people will really realize how annoying this feature will become. If it gets damaged, no more using computer. If you get a nice little scare on the finger you choose to scan, no more using comptuer (unless of course you add more than one finger, but still). I guess this is one of those things that the government should use, I don't know how easy or useful it would be used for a personal use computer.

    1. Re:Good for security, annoying for everything else by xtermin8 · · Score: 1

      Of course IBM's major demographic is companies, not individuals. Your average consumer will go to Dell, or one of the many cheaper brands. IBM is able to sell at a premium to large corporations/companies because of the Brand and company reputation. I think the security focus is also different. The disgruntled person in the next cubicle may be more of a concern than an Expert Hacker decrypting large amounts of data from a stolen hard drive.

  34. All nice and good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    This guy managed to get his hands on an early prototype T42 with the new security features integrated."
    ... until someone manages to get your hand on your computer, not necessarily still attached to your body.
  35. OT: How good are Thinkpads? by ggvaidya · · Score: 1

    How good are Thinkpads when it comes to reliability? A friend of mine had a Toshiba, and got pissed when it broke down after three years. He's gotten an iBook now, after another friend convinced him they were much hardied. I've got a Toshiba; if it breaks down next year (three years!), should I go for a Thinkpad?

    1. Re:OT: How good are Thinkpads? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone in my office (about 15 people) has one of these (mostly T40s) and almost everyone has experienced a failure of some sort. On the other hand, IBM has been pretty good about fixing/replacing them.

    2. Re:OT: How good are Thinkpads? by kisielk · · Score: 1

      The company I work for is buying IBM T41's and now T42's (IBM is deprecating T41's). We've purchased several hundred of them, and apart from failed video adapters in the first batch of units they are great. The ones with bad video adapters well all fixed without any questions asked in a short period of time.

      I have to agree with most posters, the laptops are very well thought out and designed, and really easy to work on if you ever need to take anything apart.

    3. Re:OT: How good are Thinkpads? by file-exists-p · · Score: 1

      I Had a 570e for three years, and have a T41p since january. Both are great laptops which work with no glitch under Linux (except the 570e's winmodem). I carry my laptop all the time in a standard backpack and use it both at work and at home, in trains, public places, etc. It is thus under serious physical stress.

      The 570e had a screen failure when I was living in France, and despite I bought it in the US, and had lost all the related documents (I did not even remembered where I bought it), IBM accepted with no discussion to considere the factory date as a starting date for the warranty and applied the 3 years world-wide warranty I had (they were able to find that from the serial number).

      They picked it up in Paris and take it back 4 days later fixed for free. Technical point: they had no problem I removed the HD before giving them the PC to repair.

      Cheers.

  36. for the _appearance_ of security by PureFiction · · Score: 1

    fingerprint biometrics are notoriously spoofable. only 1 in 1000 even mention "liveness detection" with an adequate threat model.

    vascular scan biometrics are the only adequate security solution to date (with the possible exception of facial geometry). even iris scanners are susceptible to spoofing.

    vascual ! always = retinal scan; many foreign banks are using hand vascular scans for banking transactions. facial vascular scans can also be less intrusive than retinal scans.

  37. fingerprints are everywhere by porkface · · Score: 0, Troll

    If someone gets your laptop, odds are they'll have no trouble reproducing your fingerprints.

    Somebody please tell me how this isn't just a waste of time.

    1. Re:fingerprints are everywhere by over_exposed · · Score: 2, Informative

      How the hell does you mind work? ANYONE can steal a laptop. I've seen a 13 year old in an airport try to walk away with one and you're saying that a 13 year old kid could reproduce my fingerprint accurately enough for a scanner to read it? Shut up and read the articles. Maybe even google the technology in the article so you can comment on it intelligently...

      --
      "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
    2. Re:fingerprints are everywhere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell does you mind work? ANYONE can steal a laptop. I've seen a 13 year old in an airport try to walk away with one and you're saying that a 13 year old kid could reproduce my fingerprint accurately enough for a scanner to read it? Shut up and read the articles. Maybe even google the technology in the article so you can comment on it intelligently...

      1. Steal laptop
      2. Use super glue fumes to get fingerprints
      3. Make a spiffy glove with that patern on them
      4. If that fails, sell it on e-bay for parts
      5. Profit

  38. Since when are fingerprint scanners news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MPC laptops have had these for a while.

    Oh wait, it's a Thinkpad. I forgot that when Thinkpads change, its news because they're normally 2 years behind. How about that sleek design?

    1. Re:Since when are fingerprint scanners news? by HikeFanatic · · Score: 0

      Ditto. Micron has had these available in their laptops for at least 3 to 4 years that I can remember.

      IBM is just like Apple - all flash, no substance, 2 years behind the rest of the world. But hey, doesn't that new laptop design look cool?

  39. Rumor has it... by QuiK_ChaoS · · Score: 1

    Rumor has it that when an invalid finger print scan is detected, Windows Media Player goes into a full screen loop of old Care Bears episodes.

  40. Official Press Release by Oliver+Aaltonen · · Score: 1

    IBM Unveils First Biometric ThinkPad, Offering Security at Your Fingertips

    IBM Integrates Fingerprint Reader with Embedded Security Subsystem; Tougher ThinkVantage Technology Strengthens IBM Security Architecture

    RESEARCH TRIANGLE PARK, N.C. -- Oct. 4, 2004 -- IBM is taking computing security and data protection to the next level today with the introduction of the first ThinkPad with an integrated fingerprint reader. ThinkPad, already the industry's most secure notebook PC (1), now features a model that delivers simplified access to password-protected personal and financial information, web sites, documents and e-mail while offering an unmatched level of data protection through its new biometric capability and embedded security subsystem.

    "Today we raised the bar on security for the entire PC industry," said Fran O'Sullivan, general manager, IBM Personal Computing Division. "What was once considered science fiction is now available to all enterprises, large and small, in the notebook of choice for everyday business. The first biometric ThinkPad combines a fingerprint reader with an Embedded Security Subsystem, providing a layer of security that is built in, not bolted on. We take our customers' security into account in every aspect of our business solutions, from PCs to servers to middleware to wireless networks."

    The fingerprint reader is built into select models of the ThinkPad T42. With the new reader, located on the wrist rest below the arrow keys, users swipe their finger across a small horizontally oriented sensor to log-on to their systems, software applications, web sites, or databases. The scanning process takes only seconds, combining convenience with the strongest notebook security available as a standard feature. This type of fingerprint reader captures more data than a traditional "picture" capture window because it scans more of the fingertip's surface area, helping to prevent misidentification.

    "We place a huge priority on security and deployed IBM ThinkPad more than a year ago because they were the only notebooks to offer an integrated hardware and software security solution," said Shawn Nunley, director of technology development, NetScaler Inc., a networking systems company headquartered in Santa Clara, Calif. "IBM's new ThinkPad with integrated fingerprint reader offers yet another level of security for us that is easy to deploy."

    IBM On Demand Security Architecture and ThinkVantage Technologies
    IBM also enhanced its hardware- and software-based Embedded Security Subsystem by releasing a new level of Client Security Software, Version 5.4, with a secure Password Manager, simplified ease-of-use and installation, and available by preload for the first time. The new version allows fingerprint identification and complex passphrases to be used interchangeably or in combination. The new software and the embedded security chip are seamlessly integrated with the fingerprint reader, protecting vital security information, such as encryption keys, electronic credentials and passphrases, and guarding against unauthorized user access.

    The Embedded Security Subsystem is a key component of IBM ThinkVantage Technologies, a suite of tools that make ThinkPad notebooks and ThinkCentre desktops easier to deploy, connect, protect and support. The fingerprint reader represents only one level in a concentric set of IBM security solutions. They include servers, operating systems, identity management, middleware, web-based privacy, network access, storage, systems management and consulting solutions. These protect information in the face of external hacker threats, costly viruses and worms, e-mail spam, new wireless technologies, and the demands of government compliance.

    Additionally, IBM and Utimaco Safeware today announced that IBM is authorized to resell Utimaco software to give users the ability to fully encrypt their entire hard drive. This protects against unauthorized access, should a notebook get stolen or lost. Utimaco Safeguard Easy is the first full dr

  41. Is there a workaround to the fingerprint scanner? by peragropax · · Score: 1

    What happens if one injurs the finger he uses as his biometric passcode (such that his fingerprint is unreadable)? Perhaps one scans each of his fingers, figuring that the chances of injuring all ten digits is so low. Incidentally, does anyone know if small injuries, such as papercuts, throw off the fingerprint scanners?

  42. Passwords by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    Passwords won't be obsolete until people can't pick up your fingerprints from let's say a coffee mug, and then make a mold.

  43. what about women? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't have a scrotum you insensitive clod!

    1. Re:what about women? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      now you have a reason to cut off your boyfriends scrotum.

  44. the fujitsu lifebook P7010 already has fp scanner! by diffuson · · Score: 1
  45. keys by blackomegax · · Score: 0

    this is the sexiest thing ever. but they still havn't given it a FRELLING WINDOWS KEY.

    1. Re:keys by browncs · · Score: 0

      The ThinkPad comes with a key mapping utility... you can assign a key as the Windows key. I have the right Alt key assigned, works fine as I normally use the left Alt key when I really want an Alt key.

  46. Now, come on! by jellisky · · Score: 1

    IBM isn't THAT evil. That's what would happen if someone like Sun made those.

    IBM's would go into a full screen loop of George Carlin standup routines. Uncensored, of course. :-D

    -Jellisky

  47. In other news... by Hoplite3 · · Score: 1

    Changing your password just got a lot harder :)

    --
    Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
  48. If I lose a finger... by Ironsides · · Score: 1, Redundant

    So what happens if I get a papercut, lose a finger, lose a hand, somehow wind up with a scar over my finger or something? Is there any way to get at the data or is it lost forever unless I brute force the keys?

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    1. Re:If I lose a finger... by Terragen · · Score: 1

      You'd have to lose all 10 since it takes all your prints.. so I wouldn't worry.

      Also you should be able to set a master password incase the scanner breaks etc.

  49. Dear IBM by Letter · · Score: 0
    Dear IBM,

    I have enough trouble pressing Ctrl-Alt-Del already. Now this... :(

    Man With No Hands

  50. Student's Thesis makes this feature useless! by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    A la this article.

    I didn't RTFA, admittedly, but did IBM take her results into consideration before designing/implementing this feature?

  51. IBM - DRM? by mefus · · Score: 1

    Is it still possible to get IBM laptops without the DRM? I would like a new laptop, and I like the fact that IBM's are not Dells, but I don't want to fork out any cash for DRM harboring kit.

    --
    mefus
    In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
    1. Re:IBM - DRM? by browncs · · Score: 0

      IBM laptops do not have "DRM". They have a security chip. Quite a different thing -- though the conspiracy theory being painted here is "DRM is the next step". When you get the laptop, the security chip is not enabled by default. The customer chooses to enable it (or not). So you're safe from whatever harm you think it might cause! See here for more detail.

    2. Re:IBM - DRM? by mefus · · Score: 1

      thanks for the hint, and the link...

      --
      mefus
      In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
  52. For those not familiar w/ the term 'LEA'... by sczimme · · Score: 1


    If they designed it in such a way that the LEA backdoor is secure (say, it's got an LEA public key on it, and the private key is kept in the forensics labs), I'll buy one tomorrow. I don't have a need to defend against .gov adversaries

    LEA means Law Enforcement Access. Some crypto and other security tokens [as in hardware, not Kerberos] have what is called LEAF - the Law Enforcement Access Field. The tokens themselves can be referenced as 'non-LEAF' and 'LEAF-enabled'.

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  53. But but but... what about the Leenooks! by hacker · · Score: 1, Interesting
    Sure, thats all well and good, but is the API to the hardware scanner components exposed in such a way that allows Linux developers such as myself to poke at it, and write a compatible AES encryption layer to interface with it?

    Encrypting a Windows machine prior to login is nice, but in the rest of the world, the GUI is the last thing we run, not the first.

    In Windows, you run the GUI, and execute the shell.

    In Linux (and most Unixes), you run the shell, and execute the GUI. Its a very different paradigm.

    You need to encrypt the data (AND swap!) at the bootloader level, otherwise the whole point of it is irrelevant.

  54. Re:yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I for one...
    This sounds like an other trollish comment...

  55. Tech detail on Lotus Notes by browncs · · Score: 0

    Yes, Notes runs on Windows.

    Obviously, if you use Notes as your e-mail client, and someone sends you an e-mail that has an attachment which cracks Windows, and you open and run that attachment, your Windows system is infected. That has nothing to do with Notes per se, it would happen with any e-mail client.

    What I was saying was that Notes itself has APIs and security -- and that there's never been a worm/virus that successfully exploited those APIs (unlike Microsoft Outlook and Outlook Express, which have been exploited in the past).

    While we're on the subject, FYI, Lotus has a new collaborative infrastructure brand-named Workplace, which will work with a Linux client. This is completely separate from Lotus Notes.

    1. Re:Tech detail on Lotus Notes by mr_z_beeblebrox · · Score: 1

      What I was saying was that Notes itself has APIs and security

      I understand that. It is a good point, I just often wonder how many more apps would be shown as vulnerable if people didn't have the 'EZ Access' OS letting them in.

  56. Integration with Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm intrigued by the section that mentions that fingerprint authentication can also be used at Windows logon... I wonder how this is integrating with Windows? It would be cool if all of the user profiles on the active directory could get fingerprint data associated with them, but I suspect they're probably just submitting a stored password or something.

    We've been using Safeguard Easy on Thinkpad laptops in our office for some years now, and it really doesn't seem to affect performance much... certainly not for office use anyway. Takes a hell of a long time to initially encrypt though.

  57. Small improvements over passwords =$$$ by xtermin8 · · Score: 1

    The improved security only needs to be relative, not 100% fix. For many large companies the vast majority of the IT department's time is taken with forgotten passwords. Even a slight improvement over time spent recovering/creating new passwords would mean at least thousands of dollars saved for many large companies. Biometrics don't have to live up to hype, since the current security is so very inefficient, as well as not usually being particularly good.

  58. Limited Credential Revocation by Aumaden · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Never use biometrics to control access to critical data. Barring such silliness as using toeprints, biometrics allows you 10 credentials (or only 2 is using full palm prints).

    If your RSA key is compromised, you can just generate another. You can do this as often as necessary. However, if you fingerprint is compromised, all you can do is switch fingers. Nine compromises later, you're SOL.

    Now for ordinary folks who just use this to keep others from messing with their laptops, this isn't an issue. However, if security is critical, biometrics just won't cut it.

    And, yes it's fairly easy to fool a finger print scanner. All it takes is some Krazy glue and a Gummi bear.

  59. Re:swipe scan able to leap tall buildings... by xtermin8 · · Score: 1

    Wha? Swipe scans have all sorts of advantages, therefore its better suited for smaller consumer electronics? God knows how we need big, power consuming devices to keep laptops heavy and battery power low- it was like that in the old days...and we liked it that way.

  60. Made for Men Only? by mykepredko · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know it's lame, but the first thing that came to my mind when I read the number of prints that could be stored in the laptop was that women don't have the 21 "digits" that men do...

    Weird on a Monday,

    myke

  61. Re:Obviously you're not an IT manager by xtermin8 · · Score: 1

    The improved security only needs to be relative, not 100% fix. For many large companies the vast majority of the IT department's time is taken with forgotten passwords. Even a slight improvement over time spent recovering/creating new passwords would mean thousands of dollars saved. Biometrics don't have to live up to hype, since current password security is so very inefficient(and annoying), anyways.

  62. So many critics... by nunley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am the guy they quoted in the original press release. I have one of these babies in my hands and let me tell you... pretty cool stuff.

    My 2 cents...

    The fingerprint reader is of a type that has not been 'fooled' yet. Yes, contact readers are easy to fool. This is not a contact reader. It reads the capacitive properties of the ridges and valleys that make up your finger print. This is actually quite cool since a severed finger does not have the same capacitive properties, and the reading is of live tissue *under* the skin, not your dead skin at the surface. So, a minor injury isn't going to be a big deal and the mafia cannot cut your finger off and use it. Furthermore, the extra small footprint of the reader is nice because there is less opportunity to damage the reader with scratches.

    The idea is to register more than one finger and fingers from both hands. Of course, nothing is foolproof, but the idea here was to include a low cost yet effective way to provide biometric access control to the laptop. The embedded security system (ESS) protects a lot of things including a password vault. Password vaults have their drawbacks, the most obvious of which is if you have the 'master' password, you now have *all* of the passwords that user has stored in the vault. Average users tend to use simple master passwords, making the password vault a huge risk. This is a way to provide the functional equivalent of a strong password to unlock the vault without making the user have to remember a complicated password or some hardware key.

    I am very impressed with the entire package. I think it will make it much simpler for IT to deploy things like ESS without destroying all of the value in ESS because users choose crappy passwords. There are a number of add-ons that make it very appropriate for enterprise deployment, including centralized key storage and disaster recovery software.

    My biggest problem to date with this kind of software was it hasn't been real reliable in the recovery category. I could make it very secure, but God help me if I had a hard drive crash or an OS go belly up. The 'backups' of this data were often times 'too secure' to be recovered. This latest package of hardware/software has many of the previous holes filled in and I am happy to report success in all of the tests I have conducted so far.

    Of course, anybody can implement this poorly. However, IBM has done a stellar job with it this time. I feel privileged to get to play with stuff like this.

    -Shawn

    1. Re:So many critics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the capacitive properties of the ridges and valleys that make up your fingerprints change when the user is stressed or ill?

    2. Re:So many critics... by nunley · · Score: 1

      This type of reader has very good specifications regarding false-positives and false-negatives.

      The basis of the technology is that it constructs an image of the fingerprint based on variations in the electrical resistance over the surface of the living finger - please note the word "living." The exterior surface of your skin, including the finger, is dead. Strip off the upper few layers of dead skin cells and you find the first layer of living skin cells. These skin cells have specific qualities of electrical resistance. They also composed into specific shapes over the surface of the skin. The combination of specific electrical qualities in the cells and specifically how the cells are arranged results in measurable and unique variations of electrical resistance over the surface of the finger. That is what a capacitive fingerprint sensor does - it reads variations in the electrical resistance of the living surface of the finger and constructs a map of the finger that shows those variations.

      I don't think the variations caused by stress or illness would be enough to skew the reader to get a false-negative reading (user fails to login with correct finger). If you think about the fact that the user is dragging the finger across the reader at infinitely variable speeds (even though only a relatively small range of speeds will work), you'll realize that the mapping technology is pretty advanced, so the very slight variations introduced by stress or illness would not interfere.

  63. It have no Windows keys. I love you IBM! by julie-h · · Score: 0, Redundant

    It doesn't have Windows keys. What more can one ask for?

  64. copycat by oneishy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    . The latest machines will also include some pretty cool encryption software, that will keep your hard disk safe, but still let you backup and restore images.

    How is this different than apples FileVault feature in OSX which uses 128bit AES encription on your home directory?

    I have a powerbook and I must say that the FileVault works beautifully (and seamlessly)

    It used to be Microsoft copying Apple, but I guess IBM can do it to. Granted my powerbook doesn't use a fingerprint as the encryption key.. but still.

  65. A funny story about this... by sczimme · · Score: 2, Interesting


    There was an interview in Business 2.0 a couple years ago with an individual who claimed she had had a very similar problem: she had just finished a presentation for a conference; the weekend before the conference she had a mishap in the kitchen and burned her finger, so she couldn't use the biometric authentication mechanism on her laptop. Her solution? She got on a plane and went to see her twin sister in Florida. She actually claimed in the article that "twins have identical fingerprints" and her sister was able to log in to her laptop for her and save the day.

    The huge, glaring flaw in this scenario is that even identical twins will have fingerprints that look as much alike as the fingerprints of two random strangers on the street. The interview was good for a laugh, but sadly it does not appear to be available on the Business 2.0 site any more.

    The individual was Bondra Bchneider, where B==S. She also referred to binary 1010 as "ten-ten"...

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  66. no, it would probably work by MenTaLguY · · Score: 1

    So long as you put the jelly over your real finger (which is the normal mode of usage), those types of scanners do get fooled (if I remember the original paper correctly).

    Also, arteries and veins don't really show up on a thermal imprint, especially not the fine vessels you would see in fingertips. So it's not necessary to fake that level of detail.

    So, IR over optical shouldn't make that big a difference.

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
  67. er, fingerprints hard to steal? by MenTaLguY · · Score: 1

    I guess it depends on what you mean by "steal". Sure, your actual physical fingerprints might be a bit tricky to grab without you noticing...

    However, given that you leave thousands of impressions of them all over the place every day I wouldn't really call them that hard to steal.

    Do you plan on wearing cotton gloves everywhere?

    --

    DNA just wants to be free...
    1. Re:er, fingerprints hard to steal? by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 1
      Do you plan on wearing cotton gloves everywhere?

      There have been stranger fashions throughout history. If fingerprint identification became a big deal, then yes it's quite likely that one might wear gloves as a matter of course.

      It might even be a sign of trust to remove one's gloves in another's home.

  68. Hacked, stolen, ID fraud by Skiron · · Score: 1

    There is a big problem with all this.

    At the moment, with current levels of security, if anyone's account/CC/whatever gets hacked, you at least have the option to change password, account UID etc. etc.

    When it all comes down to biometrics, and the hacks come out to mimic finger prints, eye scans, pubic hair et al, what we all going to do? You can't like change your fingerprints/DNS overnight???

    Doh!

  69. I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. by jonhuang · · Score: 1
    Only because you asked for it. =)


    The "partial data" is almost certainly a checksum, that takes hundreds of datapoints and combines them into one non-reversible number. This is also done with text passwords.


    A xerox of a finger won't work, since this is not an optical scanner. it measures the capacitance between ridges. Any fake is going to need to be 3D, have the electrical properties of a human, and be swipeable (so perhaps not jello..)


    Finally, I doubt that the signal to the bios is as simple as a on-off circuit. To begin with, this is probably a single chip seated on a board, not tied with alligator clips and wire. More likely it uses the CPU to compare checksums.. in any case, I'm sure IBM employs intelligent people.

    1. Re:I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. by cHALiTO · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Both wrong. The data stored is usually some kind of array or matrix of the finger minutiae (relative position, direction, etc). No serious fingerprint identification system compares -images-. Te image of the fingerprint is analyzed, the minutiae are extracted, and that's used to perform the matching against the database. A single fingerprint can contain more than 50 minutiae, while 12 are enough to identify a person.

      --
      "Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
    2. Re:I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Correct. It's normally called a template of a finger in the computer security field.

    3. Re:I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. by accelleron · · Score: 1

      and I'm sure a good rubber fake printed by any decent 3d printer would defeat it. And given it's a laptop we're talking about, a good rubber fake is easy to obtain. Just about the only decent solution I can think of is using your thumb for the ID - most people don't use thumbs to type, except space... end even then it's sideways, so the face of the thumb should be difficult if not impossible to obtain from the surface.

      --
      Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped.
  70. In iPAQ 5000 series for almost two years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    .:

    This has been in iPAQ h5000 series Pocket PC for almost two years. It's in the hx2000 series also.

    :.

  71. useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fingerprint biometric authentication is (still) useless. Your fingerprint as your password may be very easy to use, but it offers low or no security. This is mainly because of three reasons:

    1. You leave copies of your 'password' on everything you touch. On the keyboard, glasses, door handles, everywhere. On the touch-pad-like scanners even on the scanner itself.
    2. It is bad practice to use the same password in different realms. If you have fingerprint authentication for both your work computer and your online banking, you basically give your employer (and his system administrator) access to your bank accounts.
    3. Once your fingerprint gets "stolen" (either by taking it off something you touched or sometimes by breaking into the authentication server) it is impossible to change. Well, you have ten fingers and ten toes so perhaps this is not a problem in the short run :) .

    No, this is crap. The sole purpose of it is to sell crappy equipment to PHBs and other people who get impressed with the SciFi-ness of it.

    There are lots of other good solutions to this. You can have a smartcard with an RSA engine on them. These are available both in credit card form factor (the GNUPG guy actually resells one) and USB tokens. Another good solution are the RSA SecureKey one time passwords with a small token on your key ring. Both of these are probably cheaper and are more secure.

  72. In iPAQ 5000 series Pocket PC for nearly two years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    .:

    This has been in iPAQ h5000 series Pocket PC for almost two years. It's in the hx2000 series also.

    :.

  73. The Ironing is Delicious. by jonhuang · · Score: 1

    As you and your modder point out, it's a good thing this laptop has hardware encrytion.

    1. Re:The Ironing is Delicious. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No kidding? It has encryption? OMFG!

      Look, shit-for-brains, the point is what use is the biometric scanner? A password login + encryption works just as well for almost all practical cases.

  74. Linux Thinkpads on sale in Germany by rxmd · · Score: 1

    There are several vendors over here in Germany that offer Thinkpads with Linux. It's an offer specifically targeted at students, you get comparatively large discounts. The devices are still too expensive, compared with US prices, though... (I hope one day we'll actually reap the benefits of the US trade balance ;))

    At present, however there's only an R51 model on sale... and even that is somewhat of a weird offer, it ships with XP preinstalled, and you get an install CD for a custom IBM version of SuSE 9.1 Professional that automatically configures itself into a Dual Boot configuration, preserving the hibernation files etc. and with Linux drivers preinstalled.

    --
    As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
    1. Re:Linux Thinkpads on sale in Germany by wehe · · Score: 1

      NoFoSt is not the only vendor of Linux laptops, there is a large and international survey of vendors, which ship pre-installed Linux laptops, notebooks and PDAs at TuxMobil. The main sponsor for TuxMobil is Xtops.DE. They are located in Berlin (Germany). They sell IBM ThinkPads pre-equipped with Linux as well as other brands. Some of them even without Microsoft-Tax.

  75. AC Introduces Readable Colors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  76. Insecure? by Kent+Recal · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This article from 2002 claims that most fingerprint readers available to joe user by that time were easy to fool. Easy as in: press a plastic bag filled with warm water on it to replay the last print.
    Are we looking at a new, better generation of readers today or are they still as insecure as they used to be?

  77. U.S.gov by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Sigh they are taking fingerprints of everyone entering your country.

    And face shots. Basically they are a bunch of assholes, I'll stick to passwords for the timebeing.

  78. Design by SuchiRu · · Score: 1

    Although IBM is a great company and makes great machines would it do much harm to get someone to actually design their computers. I mean honestly they look like shit even though the hardware is great. Gotta love'em though.

  79. Re:the fujitsu lifebook P7010 already has fp scann by praxis · · Score: 2, Informative

    Also, the Electrovaya Scribbler SC800 and Electrovaya Scribbler SC2100 have finger print scanners as well. [1] They've had them for years. I guess they are just becomming more mainstream.

    http://www.electrovaya.com/product/scribbler_pro du ct.html

  80. So? My gateway has it now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So IBM is behind the times? Why is this news?

    My gateway 450xl has built in fingerprint scanning just like they describe and I've had it since July. And this feature isn't even available in the IBMs yet?

  81. Limited Time Only? by mnewton32 · · Score: 1

    Hopefully since this is OS-independent they will support it for a little longer. IBM has this awful habit of making these proprietary pieces of hardware and then stopping support for them as soon as MS releases a new OS.
    I just tried setting up a TP with Windows XP, no more drivers for that internal modem! Had a SmartCard reader for another TP. No support past Windows 98! That cool mouse with an integrated trackpoint? No you'll have to stop using it in Windows 2000!
    I'm still a fan of their hardware though.

  82. Re:Design -- WIDESCREEN LAPTOP EVER? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HELLO?!?!? When in the world will they get with it and design a 15" WIDESCREEN laptop? I'm also curious why they are taking forever to release a "T" performance model with built-in DVD recording capabilities. Ugh.

  83. Linux users get partial benefits... by Future+Shock · · Score: 1

    Having used IBM ThinkPad extensively, and RTFA, I'd say that Linux users can look forward to getting at least part of the benefit of the new ThinkPad's multilayered security right out of the box. If we say that the new T42 has three layers:
    1) Fingerprint "PowerOn" Login
    2) Fingerprint OS Login
    3) Harddrive and removable data encryption

    It's pretty easy to see how 1) above will work seamlessly with Linux (or any OS) as it occurs before OS boot, but I highly doubt 2) and 3) will work as is. That's not to say such features can't be added, but right out of the box it looks dim.

    Still, even having PowerOn fingerprint verification will stop a large number of thieves, and traditional Linux login and filesystem security can be used as layers 2) and 3). So at the very least, a T42 with the new fingerprint ID has one extra layer on top of standard Linux security. And should you not want it, you can always disable it by disabling the "PowerOn" password in the boot menu...

    Thanks to the original reviewer - you just saved me, as I was getting ready to buy a T42 in the next two weeks...now I will just have to wait!

  84. Wait till your first Bios update .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..when your laptop autmatically uploads your fingerprint to IBM's database, and forwards it (along with your name, address and a notation that you are running a pirated copy of windows, and have over 5000 MP3's) to your friends at MS, RIAA etc.

  85. Re:Obviously you're not an IT manager by haruchai · · Score: 1

    Hey, we read your post fine the first time. No need to post it again ;) Seriously, though, my own experience with fingerprint scanning has been just awful. A friend and I were going to do a work-from-home call center gig which required that we purchase a fingerprint scanner which would be used to log us on to the customer database.
    On average, it took up to 15 min to get the fucking thing to work.
    We quickly ditched that company but ended up several
    hundred bucks in the red.

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  86. Re:I realize IBM is a mainstream notebook company. by tirnacopu · · Score: 1

    http://ruggedpower.motorola.com/ .. and that magnesium case super duper secure thingy sports a shiny Windows XP desktop in the ad.. why would anyone use a hammer, biometrics or even cryptography when them bloody files are http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb; en-us;308993&sd=tech just a few clicks away? The really cute and helpful part is - "Only the following people can decrypt an encrypted file: #4 Any user who has been granted access to the file". Yes, I know what this means, but please you try and explain to Joe Shmuck that his file is lost for good (hehehe, got beer?) when "but I did right click and said Susan can read it".