Waterproof MP3 Player Uses Bone Conduction

An anonymous reader writes "Aquatic training product manufacturer Finis has just released a waterproof digital music portable for swimmers and surfers that claims to solve a problem with such devices in the water. Regular earphones don't work well because they need an uninterrupted air channel to function. What makes the SwiMP3 unique is that it uses bone conduction to stimulate the inner ear and deliver sound."

Comments

The only painful bit.

[Amiga Lover]

The only painful bit is getting the 3.5mm jack inserted into the back of your skull.

Re:The only painful bit.

[Beyond_GoodandEvil]

Wouldn't a better spot be behind the ear or somewhere along the jaw line?

Re:The only painful bit.

[FlopEJoe]

How does this affect the radio wave blocking abilities of my tin foil hat?

Re:The only painful bit.

[jdray]

Plenty of storage space available, I'm guessing? :^)

[/troll]

Re:The only painful bit.

[EvilTwinSkippy]

The problem isn't how to pipe data directly to the brain. Hell, an electrode will do that just fine. The real technological feat will be delivering a signal to that part of the brain that can actually do something with it.

Until then, we will have to be satisfied with tricking the senses.

Re:The only painful bit.

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Ask Bush!

That's how his "radio hump" worked withhout an earpiece...

But how deep?

[se2schul]

Cool, but how deep will it go? Can I bring it on a 300' deep scuba dive to entertain me during hours of long decompression stops?

Re:But how deep?

[RangerRick98]

Gizmodo pointed out that they didn't mention any depth information in their press release, so it probably isn't designed for diving.

Re:But how deep?

[se2schul]

Perhaps they just haven't considered the possibiliies that the bone conductive technology offers them. A scuba diver shouldn't put headphones in the ear, since the water pressure could force them into the ear causing damage (much the same reason a diver can't use ear plugs). With this bone conductive technology you could eliminate that problem. I'd imagine that all that would have to be done is to put the player in a pressure vessel, much like the underwater housings used for video cameras.

Re:But how deep?

[EvilTwinSkippy]

There is not limitation to depth. The damn thing will go to the bottom of the ocean!

Oh. You wanted it to continue to function...

(If you are seriously diving 300', just put the sucker in your dry suit.)

Re:But how deep?

[over_exposed]

This would be more useful for swimmers. Either people doings laps or even better, synchronized swimmers. Now they can hear the music they're flailing around to.

Not new

[WhatsAProGingrass]

This may be new to the MP3 world, but this method is nothingnew.

"The BAHA is a surgically implantable system for treatment of hearing loss that works through direct bone conduction. It has been used since 1977, and was cleared by the FDA in 1996 as a treatment for conductive and mixed hearing losses in the United States. In 2002, the FDA approved its use for the treatment of unilateral sensorineural hearing loss." from here

Re:Not new

[cyberlotnet]

It's a new use of technologies
It a mp3 player viable where it never was before
It doesnt invovle implanting
So while it may not be "new tech" it is "New and innovating use of that tech in an area it has never been used before"
Next thing you know your going to say parents shouldn't get excited about having a baby because millions of people have them every day, its just another lifeform in the world nothing else.

Re:Not new

[cmcguffin]

Ahhh, shades of the Bone Fone!

Remember, kids, it's a "new concept in sound technology that may revolutionize the way we listen to stero music"!

Today's marketing wonks have nothing on their late-70s brethren.

Great distraction!

[grub]

Oh to be a shark. The meat is much more tender without fear-induced adrenaline pumped into it.

Re:Great distraction!

[Negatyfus]

Great! Now I can finally experience a shark attack with the Jaws theme playing in the background!

I'm sorry...

[Short Circuit]

But the mental picture of an iPod sitting in a fish tank conducting an orchestra with a bone is just...odd.

Frequency response?

[ByteSlicer]

Does anybody here know the frequency response of cheek bone? I would expect it to filter high frequencies.

Re:Frequency response?

[RealProgrammer]

African or European?

Re:Frequency response?

[warpSpeed]

African or European?

With or with out cocoanuts?

Re:Frequency response?

[Gaewyn L Knight]

You have obviously never had a root canal and crown put on.

*cringes*

It looks weird, but

[Megaweapon]

I wonder if it would also work in generally loud (and not underwater) areas where you don't want to block some sounds with regular earphones.

Re:It looks weird, but

[Big Nothing]

Police and military units have used bone conducting equipment for quite some time for this particular reason; it doesn't block external sound, it works in noisy environments and it prevents eavesdropping.

This particular product, however, seems (from the pictures in TFA) to be placed in front of the ears, and would therefore block external sounds. It might meet the two other criterion, though.

Re:It looks weird, but

[tindur]

And does listening to this harm your ear like normal earphones or would this be a better alternative for those who like to listen to loud music?

How does it sound

[OglinTatas]

How does it deal with the accoustics of bone instead of air? In my head, my voice sounds like a sexy baritone, but when I hear my voice in voicemail, it sounds tinny and whiney. My point is that sounds coming through the air sound a whole lot different than sounds that resonate in your head.

Re:How does it sound

[VivianC]

In my head, my voice sounds like a sexy baritone, but when I hear my voice in voicemail, it sounds tinny and whiney.

Maybe you need a better voicemail system...

Re:How does it sound

[infinite9]

Back in 1983, I went on a guided tour of a panasonic site in japan. One of the things they demonstrated for me was a radio that used bone conduction. The cool thing was that you could place it anywhere on your skull and it sounded the same. I sounded at least as good as the walkmans at the time I was listening to. So it may not be able to do highs and lows very well, but neither can a lot of portable headphones. As a side benefit, it didn't leak sound the way most headphones do.

Creepy sounds in my head!

[RocketRainbow]

No really, I'm serious! This is why speakers are so much more popular than headphones: the sound appears to be coming from somewhere! With good headphones, you can still get a reasonable effect (My sennheisers make it seem like the music is right there at the outside of my ears, which is just where I like it) but with direct stimulation it's just not pleasant to have directionless noise coming from outta nowhere!

Re:Creepy sounds in my head!

[drinkypoo]

Nice try, but speakers are more popular than headphones for two reasons, and neither of them are that sound seems to come from somewhere. The first is that in-ear headphones tend to make the ear sore (unless you have expensive custom molded headphones) and headphones can only be two or at most three of the following things: Wireless, inexpensive, lightweight, or good quality. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to get decent quality speakers, as long as you're not looking for the super loud type, which are fairly small (Cambridge soundworks, anyone? though they're not so useful since they were acquired by creative) and inexpensive. Headphones are annoying in any form. People spend a lot of money to get immersive sound, they want the sound to be all around them. Headphones do provide that, but they're annoying. Personally, I'm looking forward to cochlear implants with an encrypted digital connection :P

Re:Creepy sounds in my head!

[olclops]

While true, the bigger reason that loudspeakers sound better than headphones is that your brain is used to processing sound with both ears. In other words, sound from loudspeakers sounds more natural because your right hear hears sound from both the left and right speakers, only it hears the right speaker louder and slightly sooner. (And, obviously, the reverse is true for the left ear). That's what creates the "stereo" effect. This isn't true with headphones - your right ear only hears the right channel. So for the vast majority of recorded material, when you listen in headphones, your brain interprets the sound as slightly wrong somehow.

Some manufacturers of headphone amplifiers (http://headroom.headphone.com/) include a simple processor that feeds some of the left channel to the right headphone with the appropriate attenuation and delay, and vica versa. I use one of these and love it. The concious effect is subtle, but you find that you can listen to headphones for a much, much longer time before you get that "Aaaagh! Gotta take these off!" effect.

Bonephone radio reprise

[AndroidCat]

The Bonephone idea seems to pop up every few years (back to the 70s at least) and never seems to catch on.

I can't see listening to music in the pool being a killer-app for it, but maybe the RIAA lawyers won't want to get their suits wet coming in after you.

Better yet

[vanourek]

I am holding out for the lotion-proof OGG player. It's got to support that bone thingy too.

Old news, used to be "swim-band"

[Anonymous Coward]

And it was done in the 80's. For awhile they were hocked on uhf channels before dissapearing completely from the marketplace, about a decade ago. There was a "design" patent on file for the thing, though it may well have expired by now. And yes, it was cool to listen to music underwater.

I wonder what the sharks like best?

[nels_tomlinson]

... a waterproof digital music portable for swimmers and surfers ...

I wonder what sort of music the sharks prefer with dinner? Maybe the theme from a lawyer show like LA Law?

This is just another example of...

[igrp]

... military technology eventually being used in civilian applications. The SEALs have used bone conduction for a while now. And according to the Navy Wire Service this technology has already been transfered to other fields, namely, to be used by emergency response personell. So this is just the next step...

Bone conduction is actually a pretty good idea: the ear drum is too close to the density of the water to stop any sound wave when in immersion. The bones are hard enough to stop the fast sound waves though. Basically the bones from the neck and skull resonate and carry the vibrations.

All the Tri-Geeks will have one of these...

[RobL3]

I belong to a very rare subset of Geek known as the Tri-Geek. Guide to spotting the Tri-Geek - bike on car cost more than car, Wetsuit hanging in cube, funny tan lines, %10 body fat, empty Gu packs lying around instead of coffie cups and... an obsesive compulsive need to have the best, coolest, newest equipment available. I WILL have one of these! I don't care if it only holds 16 megs, they're going to sell a ton to people just like me. Now I'm off to find the credit card I hid from myself...

Re:All the Tri-Geeks will have one of these...

[Powercntrl]

I belong to a very rare subset of Geek known as the Tri-Geek.

I'm a more common type of geek. I sit on my fat ass in a nice air conditioned car listening to my non-waterproof iPod. If it has wheels and can seat a passenger, it must have an engine or I will not own it. I won't be buying this MP3 player.

Different target markets, I guess.

This is NOT unique!

[Systems Curmudgeon]

A product that was poorly marketed in the late 1970's was called the "Bone Phone." It was a walkman-style audio player intended for runners, and you heard the music through your bones (no earpiece). I believe it was invented by a Princetonian. If any patents are claimed on this, there is prior art! - systems curmudgeon, AKA: The Precision Blogger http://precision-blogging.blogspot.com

IDEA NOT NEW

[gp310ad]

Bone Fone is a 70's example employing acoustic conduction through the body as opposed to the evolutionary air to ear route.

WW-II AT&T 'throat microphone' also made use of 'conductued' sound and it was common for early (20's) radio operators to place their headphones on skull or jaw behind ears rather than over ears. This afforded some degree of 'automatic volume control', protected them from loud static crashes, and made it easier to discern a weak signal when near a strong one.

Back when I swam a lot we puT speakers inside plastic bags and hung them ver the side of the pool. It was OK when both ears were under water but not practical for listening while swimming. Combined with speakers above the water it wasn't much better. Swimming is pretty noisy and indoor pool acoustics generally suck.

Music in my head?

[palad1]

I'll first have to ask Frank if he doesn't mind the company in there.

Also could be good for certain types of hearing lo

[rickthewizkid]

This could also be useful for folks with certain types of conductive hearing loss, such as Treacher collins syndrome, which generally results in small, or no external ear structures, and other similar conditions.

This technology has been used in some types of hearing aids for years - again, for people who have small or missing external ear canals.

Just my winamp-in-a-headset's worth.
RickTheWizKid

Not unique or new...

[olympus_coder]

The H2Audio underwater mp3 system as been out for scuba diving for a while (a year?) and uses a hydrophone I beleive. They sit on the outside of the ear (you can't put anything in the ear as changing pressure might force it into the ear).

Oceanic Scuba Equipment

Return of the Bonephone

[litac]

Yeah, yeah - others have mentioned it, but my first thought when I saw the headline was - someone else is trying to bring back 70's tech. I remember first seeing ads for the Bonephone in Omni Magazine. They were marketed as the geek's alternative to the uber-cool Walkman. The version I recall was a long flat unit that you wore around your neck, with the sound emitters resting one your collar bone. I also seem to recall that it was pulled from the market because people were experiencing bone damage (spontaneously breaking collar bones, etc), but that might be urban myth.

MGS

[accelleron]

Colonel: Snake! Can you hear me?
Snake: I tried so hard... in the end... doesn't really matter...
Colonel: Snake?
Snake: I had to fall... lose it all...
Colonel: Who the f**k gave him an MP3 player?!
Naomi: err...

Re:Why bother?

[jstave]

I'm missing something here. Is someone being forced to do this? I used to work next to a guy who would play his music so loud that I could hear his earphones from the next cube over. I'd have loved it if he used bone conduction so that I could work in silence.

Limited Functionality

[Opalima]

Only 30 songs? How many laps of the wading pool is that exactly? I find it unusual that the unit holds such a limited number of songs.

Re:Limited Functionality

[igrp]

Well, at least in theory, you could use low-bitrate mono MP3s without any loosing any quality. With bone conduction, there is only a single source of transmission and not two (ie. your ears).

A MP3 played on this player will sound like it's "all around you", coming from all directions. It's omniphonic sound. That's why there's not really a point in having stereo MP3s. You could convert them to mono and squeeze in more songs.

possibilities for hearing impaired?

[CrudPuppy]

I wonder about the possibilities of this technology for certain types of hearing impairment.

my bone-conduction hearing is far better than my air-conduction hearing in tests. they could be onto something here...

Re:possibilities for hearing impaired?

[Mattcelt]

If the cochlear bones are damaged, then even bone-conduction won't help with hearing, because it is those three bones that do the actual conversion of air pressure to electrical signals that the brain can decode as sound. Without those specific bones to do the conversion, doing bone conduction is no more useful than, say, holding your fingers up to a person's throat while they're speaking and feeling the vibrations they're making. While it's a useful thing in certain circumstances (and therefore an idea not totally without merit), it's nowhere near the same as true hearing.

Sorry to burst your bubble! Rest assured that it took me a looong time when I was young to understand that my grandmother (whose was deaf from birth) could feel sound, but couldn't hear it.

medical issues?

[ifnkovhgroghprm]

I've seen a bunch of devices lately that transmit signals through the body in various ways. This one uses your bones to transmit audio. I'm wondering if they've done enough analysis to see what kinds of medical problems might pop up after prolonged use of this device. I wouldn't want rapid onset of osteoporosis to occur because of an MP3 player...

Re:medical issues?

[greg_barton]

I'm wondering if they've done enough analysis to see what kinds of medical problems might pop up...

Here, you can test this yourself:

Stick your fingers in your ears and hum.

Dead yet? Keep tryin'...

Ah, a modern version of the 'bone phone'

[nurb432]

Though most of you here are too young to reemember it, there was a product that used 'bone conduction' back in the early 80's..

Sold by DAK and later ( i think ) sharperimage..

It was a radio.. And it fit over your neck like a towel.. And rather expensive from what i remember, but cool

Underwater Speaker

[alatesystems]

I think it would be more fun to have an underwater speaker that uses the water to conduct the sound. I remember I was in a pool once and someone at the other end of the pool heard my hour chime under water. It seems that water carries sound much better than air, but IANAP(physicist).

It would be neat to blast music to people underwater, and when you came out of the water you wouldn't be able to hear it at all.

I'm sure I'll get modded off-topic, but it still seems like a good idea.

Re:Why not?

[pomakis]

Some acoustic physicist please explain to me: Why wouldn't earphones work better underwater? AFAIK sound is propagated through compression waves, so it should work fine underwater as the density is greater. Am I missing something?

I'm guessing that they would work better underwater if there was an uninturrupted water channel. But I'm guessing the problem is that when you go swimming, especially if you're wearing earphones or earbuds, there's bound to be a lot of trapped air in your ears along with the water that gets in. It's probably that composite environment that causes the problem.

Re:Why bother?

[TheFlyingGoat]

Most of us have a choice whether or not we want music on at work. At home you have the ability to turn your TV or radio off. In the car you can easily turn off your stereo. You have the choice whether or not you want to listen to music in the pool.

And many of us don't listen to "mindless music"... many listen to classical, jazz, or even audio books (I'd love to get through an extra book a week during my swimming time).

I sure hope you were trolling, cause otherwise you need to think about things a little more before you write them.

Still not new

[poptones]

Twenty years ago a company that ran ads in all the gadget magazines offered a "bone fone." It was marketed most directly to skiers as a means of listening to their music while skiing without having to muck with earphones and cables.

Even ignoring the potential problems for folks with inner ear troubles who want to dive (the music via bone conduction could contribute further toward disorientation and dizziness from such problems) the sound via this method sucked then, I suspect it will still suck now. There's a great step from "Wow I was deaf and now am able to hear!" to "...and I want to pay money to listen to lo-fi music through this thing while I'm diving (or any other time) because...?"

I have a pretty messed up right ear and I am a terrible swimmer, but even still I love the water. One of the things I love most is the difference in sound between out of the water and underwater. Why would anyone want to interrupt that rare peace with noise from the terrestrial world?

Re:Still not new

[FrankHaynes]

I couldn't agree more!

The sound perceived by bone conduction is typically lo-fidelity, mostly the lows and mid-range frequencies are heard, but the highs are basically non-existant.

Despite the fact that when most people say 'mp3' these days they expect us to think 'music' (or even 'pirated music'!), I see this as a potential boon to Masters swimming instructors. I will soon be joining a Masters swim team simply to improve my breathing technique and to learn how to turn, and from what I have seen it seems pretty silly to have the instructor screaming at the top of his lungs for the few milliseconds that a swimmer's ear is above the surface while taking a breath.

This device could allow the instructor to issue guidance and instructions pretty much full-time to an immersed swimmer. Now THAT would be a practical and useful application.

As for surfing (the REAL kind of surfing where you get wet, not sitting on your fat ass browsing web pages), I know that Craig, Topher, Buddy, Beaker, and Vax would miss my various renditions that I sing while we're out in the lineup waiting for a waves, so I'll pass on this device for that application. Besides, it's healthier to be able to hear the maladjusted sociopath who is threatening you for surfing "his break".

Re:Still not new

[jdray]

I would hope it would be good for surf-zone kayaking, too. Generally, people out kayaking don't want to be bothered with music, but communication is a huge issue. Those "waterproof" FRS radios don't work past your first wet exit, which is when you need them most.

Re:Still not new

[Daniel Boisvert]

One of the things I love most is the difference in sound between out of the water and underwater. Why would anyone want to interrupt that rare peace with noise from the terrestrial world?

You'd want to do so because lap-swimming is incredibly boring, and if you're at a practice or are swimming to work out, you're probably just hearing whatever music the lifeguard's got on, or noise from whomever's in the pool area. There's a huge transformation that takes place when you go from being a recreational swimmer to a competitive one. Largely, you don't tend to just "play" in the water anymore, because you're conditioned to get in and do laps. You tend to trade one sort of fun for another, but that generally comes during meets. Practice is still boring.

I used to swim competitively, and now do so just to stay in shape. I'd love one of these things, if the price came down a little and the sound was good. I find that stroke-stroke-stroke-flip gets boring after the first mile or so. ;)

RTFA?

[poptones]

You really should. This post was not "interesting" but the picture that answers your question (the one you see when you rtfa) is worth the click. Man does that thing look stupid. I mean, most swimgear looks pretty stupid, but this thing is remarkably stupid looking. They couldn't make it flatter and less conspicuous? The only way they could have made it stupider would have been to stick it in a fin... but even that would at least be stupid and funny.

Re:RTFA?

[nodnarb]

Perhaps building the player into the silly little cap that she's wearing in the picture (found here for anyone else who's not quite smart enough)

Re:Why bother?

[reedmon29]

Music has a sort of "soothing" effect I guess. I work best when I'm listening to my favorite genres. It may be mindless noise, but it helps me, and it releives boredom.

I don't swim, but I can't see swimming for 4 hours straight, lap by lap, to be extremely exciting.

And what do you mean you "can't even go swimming without having your mp3 collection zapped into your inner ear"? I still do. I go to classes without music. Listening to music for me at least is a choice.

Swimman waterproof player

[kfstark]

From the non-audiofile swimmer perspective, I just want something to listen to and don't care about the difference in sound quality as long as it sound decent.

I just received my waterproof MP3 player from swimman and it is a nice little unit that can clip to your goggle strap. I haven't had a chance to try it in the pool because of the rain, but I am looking forward to it.

My only complaint is that I would like to listen to audiobooks from iTunes, but they are in the wrong format for the device and hymn doesn't handle large audiobook files well.

--Keith

Re:gmail invites

[MBraynard]

fyi - these are not gmail invites. Do not view them.