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Xbox Users Too Impatient for Class Action

Posted by Zonk on from the website-with-a-message dept.

Danilo Campos writes "I got a little irritated when Microsoft wanted me to pony up $80 to repair my out-of-warranty Xbox for a hardware failure that is very, very well-known. Slashdot recently reported a class action aimed at solving this very problem. That will take too long and cost everyone too much. The only ones who'll be better off are the lawyers. I have instead organized a polite, respectful request by Xbox owners that Microsoft repair or replace any afflicted systems at their own expense. Join the call, won't you?"

55 comments

  1. Re: Join the call, won't you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Na. I'll join the call after PS2 owners get Sony to fix their PS2s free of charge.

  2. hate to say it... by 0x20 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    maybe RTFWarranty next time?

    you know, tough luck and all, but you had every chance to know the extent and coverage of the warranty when you bought the thing. i've owned a lot of electronic stuff that failed not long after the warranties ran out, too. do i expect the manufacturers to pay for all the repairs? no.

    to top it off, $80 is really not an unreasonable amount of money to pay for a repair on a high-tech electronic device, regardless of the simplicity of the repair or how much the device costs new. you can expect to pay more than that to have a crappy VHS deck adjusted.

    no offense, but this all seems a little whiny to me.

    1. Re:hate to say it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Isnt the warranty inside the box? How can you read it if it is inside the box and you have to buy the item to read the warranty? This issue wich you seem to take the 'you had a choice' bullshit reasoning stance-used mostly by people brainwashed by the right wing- on is not as simple as you make it out to be. In fact in my contracts class in law school we spent over a week talking about this using some gateway cases. Unlike with software the UCC applies to this since it can be considered a 'good' so you should look up the UCC sometime and see what it says about warranties. Also if the issue is a deffect in the product that the company knows of it gets even more complicated. So thanks for your brain-dead comment. People can enter into contracts but if the contract goes against the law it isnt going to be valid in court. so instead of talking shit educate yourself.

    2. Re:hate to say it... by GrimSean · · Score: 3, Insightful
      $80 is really not an unreasonable amount of money to pay for a repair on a high-tech electronic device, regardless of the simplicity of the repair or how much the device costs new. you can expect to pay more than that to have a crappy VHS deck adjusted.

      Yeah, sounds unreasonable, but maybe you should RTFA - it's $80 American plus shipping. Have you ever picked up an XBOX? They're the heaviest console ever made, which means it costs more to ship the damn things. Microsoft needs to do something about this - Nintendo has authorized repair shops across the country (and they give a 1 year warranty on all new systems), and Sony will fix Playstations for $120 CAN, including shipping, which is expensive, but guarantees you a working system even if yours can't be fixed.

      --
      I don't need to be made to look evil. I can do that on my own. - Christopher Walken
    3. Re:hate to say it... by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1

      Sony repairs theirs for free.

      I'm simply playing devils advocate here, I love my Xbox, but this is rather stupid of Microsoft to refuse to replace defective drives for a well known defect like their compeditors are doing.

      Of course, if you know what you're doing, you can replace the DVD drive yourself.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    4. Re:hate to say it... by Weeb · · Score: 1
      Unlike with software the UCC applies to this since it can be considered a 'good' so you should look up the UCC sometime and see what it says about warranties. Also if the issue is a deffect in the product that the company knows of it gets even more complicated.


      Well-said. I think the crux of any legal finding would be that Microsoft knew that the issue existed (even if after release) but persisted in selling the Xbox.

      It's not uncommon for a manufacturer to stand firmly beside their product, despite its out-of-warranty status. We see at least one or two times a year a Slashdot story about Apple issuing free repairs for their out-of-warranty laptops when it becomes clear that some poor engineering is leaving people with expensive paper weights.

      There's no excuse for the numbers we're seeing. It's so bad that it was one of three issues specifically mentioned at Bungie.net when people couldn't play Halo 2 -- they blamed the hardware, too.
    5. Re:hate to say it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, if you replace the drive yourself you will get banned from Xbox Live since they classify the replacement as a modification. Honestly, if your drive goes DOA your choice is to either send it to Microsoft to replace it, so you can avoid getting banned when you try to connect to Live. Or simply pony up for a new one which is what I wound up doing when I was told that the drive replacement would total to $100 with shipping.

    6. Re:hate to say it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We see at least one or two times a year a Slashdot story about Apple issuing free repairs for their out-of-warranty laptops when it becomes clear that some poor engineering is leaving people with expensive paper weights."

      Yeah, look at how they handled the iPod's battery. Oh wait ...

    7. Re:hate to say it... by TheHonestTruth · · Score: 1
      Huh? How does the UCC not apply to software you buy at a store?? It's a moveable good.

      As for your whole argument about the warranty being inside a box, why don't you read ProCD v. Zeidenberg a case we read in MY contracts class. Though it deals with EULAs instead of warranties, it held that software manufacturers do not have to place the terms on the outside of the box because it would effectively replace any advertising on the box.

      "But why would Wisconsin fetter the parties' choice in this way? Vendors can put the entire terms of a contract on the outside of a box only by using microscopic type, removing other information that buyers might find more useful (such as what the software does, and on which computers it works), or both." ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg, 86 F.3D 1447 (7th Cir., June 20, 1996)

      Maybe you should educate yourself, and pay more attention in class.

      -truth

      --

      I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...

    8. Re:hate to say it... by celith · · Score: 1
      Uh, I hate to point this out, but Nintendo only offers a 90 day warranty on new systems. That means both the Gamecube and GBA SP (and I assume the DS will be the same way).

      Several years ago, yeah, the big N did one year warranties, but now they're just like Microsoft and Sony (at least in this respect).

    9. Re:hate to say it... by GrimSean · · Score: 1, Informative
      No, sorry, Nintendo offers a one year warranty on new systems - it's the best in the industry, and their customer service reps are really good. The games only get 90 days, but that's still better than the thirty days given by Sony and Microsoft.

      Want some proof? Go here. As I tell the kids that come into where I work, never argue with the guy who sells the stuff for a living.

      --
      I don't need to be made to look evil. I can do that on my own. - Christopher Walken
    10. Re:hate to say it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, sounds unreasonable, but maybe you should RTFA - it's $80 American plus shipping. Have you ever picked up an XBOX? They're the heaviest console ever made, which means it costs more to ship the damn things. Microsoft needs to do something about this - Nintendo has authorized repair shops across the country (and they give a 1 year warranty on all new systems), and Sony will fix Playstations for $120 CAN, including shipping, which is expensive, but guarantees you a working system even if yours can't be fixed.

      Microsoft is the third-place-of-three game company in every country, has not mass manufactured popular electronics before on the scale of either competitor and does not have a 3 decade retail network or chain of repair shops. You basically explained this - but you're wondering what the problem is and why Microsoft can't afford to get things done the same way Sony and Nintendo can?

      If it costs more to ship and repair an Xbox than it does to buy a new one, why don't you go buy a new one? Buy a used one and everyone wins! Why does Microsoft have to buy a new Xbox for you, outside the warranty period? And why should they responsible for the shipping charges imposed by other companies? I own many things that would cost more to ship than they did to purchase, but I don't expect the manufacturers to be responsible for that - especially outside the warranty period.

      Gotta agree with the OP: There isn't much of a just complaint here.

    11. Re:hate to say it... by Examancer2 · · Score: 1

      If your drive is DOA (Dead on Arrival), then you don't have to pay microsoft to repair it OR get a new one, because its still under the WARRANTY, so the repairs would be free. However, if your drive dies after 90 days (maybe you were thinking MIA, missing in action?), then yes, those are the two options unfortunately.

    12. Re:hate to say it... by Curtman · · Score: 2, Funny

      never argue with the guy who sells the stuff for a living

      Hahahaha! Thats the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Take a trip down to Best Buy, have a chat with a salesman there and then say that with a straight face. Bet you can't.

  3. 2 pronged attack by BortQ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be cool if sony offered a competitive xbox upgrade? "Send us your broken XBOX and we'll send you a PS2 for the same price Microsoft wants to charge you to fix it!"

    --

    A Multiplayer Strategy Game for Mac OS X, Windows, and Linux
    1. Re:2 pronged attack by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      That wouldn't work well since the games libraries are incompatible.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:2 pronged attack by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can buy a used PS2 for what it costs to get your Xbox fixed. Or, you can buy a used Xbox. This is a non-solution (besides, as a sibling comment says, they don't play one another's games, so the idea is still more worthless.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. MS to everyone joining this call: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  5. Wish you well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but I'm taking the don'ts.

  6. Sony WILL repair your PS2s free of charge... by Kelmenson · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm not sure if you were trying to be ironic or funny, but Sony will actually repair broken DVD drives free of charge, as the result of a class action lawsuit.

    Check out GameFaqs for how to get yours repaired...

    1. Re:Sony WILL repair your PS2s free of charge... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sony should have to repair any of their optical drives free of charge. They're all horrendously unreliable. Why it is that Sony, inventor of the portable compact disc player, cannot make a reliable CD-reading laser assembly, I'll never know.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Why pay $80 by lordtenchi · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why pay $80 when you can just return it to WalMart for free. All you have to do is buy a new XBox use a blow drier to remove the seal and put the old XBox in the box and return it.

    1. Re:Why pay $80 by Detritus · · Score: 1

      That's also a criminal act.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    2. Re:Why pay $80 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amid all the indignant yammering this is the first useful advice i've seen.

  8. This is different. by Omni+Magnus · · Score: 5, Informative

    The original XBOX DVD drives have a very short lifespan. This is because M$ wanted them to ONLY read DVD-ROMs and CD-ROMs (probably to stop piracy with the system). That just wasnt possible, but they were able to suceed in not getting them to read almost all CD-R's and most DVD-R's. Now, because this laser is so finely tuned to read ONLY those types of media, when it goes through a few months of normal use that wouldn't phase a normal drive, the XBOX drive is no longer able to read data. I think this decision will cost Microsoft dearly. All those XBOX owners with faulty drives arent going to want an XBOX2 as unreliable as the first one.

    1. Re:This is different. by Locky · · Score: 1

      Doubtful, There is no such thing as consumer backlash in the Videogame market. If there was, Nintendo would would hold the top spot, as both Sony and MS have had a very large share of problems with their consoles, whereas Nintendo have only had isolated incidents of hardware failure.

    2. Re:This is different. by akwash79 · · Score: 1

      You must have forgotten the early nintendo days.

      Blow in the cartridge, not seat the cartridge all the way in the nintendo, blow again, put another cartridge on top of the catridge and leave the lid open. Ring a bell? Of course this was probably due more to the medium itself than the actual system hardware. But on my old nintendo I would have to do that to new games too. Everyone that owned a nintendo in the 80's had this same problem and it was real irritating. It was so common it was almost an expected procedure in order to have to play a game.

    3. Re:This is different. by akwash79 · · Score: 1

      Some PS2's have the problem of not reading any discs after a while. It may void the warranty but there is a home fix to that problem that is easier than changing spark plugs.

    4. Re:This is different. by jimi+the+hippie · · Score: 1

      Or, you call up Sony, pay $10-15 to ship it to them, and they fix it for free.

    5. Re:This is different. by Fizzl · · Score: 1

      Wait... Microsoft manufactures cheapo consoles out of commondity parts, only to tinker each damn dvd drive to only accept certain types of discs?
      Is this a fact? I think it would me more plausible to assume they just cut one too many corner on the way and got a batch of lousy drives.

      --
      Bot Assisted Blogging
    6. Re:This is different. by nathanh · · Score: 1
      Wait... Microsoft manufactures cheapo consoles out of commondity parts, only to tinker each damn dvd drive to only accept certain types of discs? Is this a fact? I think it would me more plausible to assume they just cut one too many corner on the way and got a batch of lousy drives.

      I don't know if it's fact but I do know an acceptable fix for a broken Xbox DVDROM is to open the case, find the little potentiometer that controls the laser strength, and give it a quarter turn clockwise. Works like a charm after that.

    7. Re:This is different. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the same "acceptable fix" that people were using to get Dreamcasts to read CD-RWs. And it was acceptable, until the laser just burnt out completely and you were stuck with a dead console.

    8. Re:This is different. by PedanticSpellingTrol · · Score: 1

      It's a direct result of the crappy ZIF socket they used in the first-gen design. The top loading model is much more reliable. If you're feeling ambitious you might try taking your nes apart and bending the contacts out further with a long screwdriver or something so they grab the edge connector in the game pak better.

  9. Re: Join the call, won't you? by jimi+the+hippie · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I just got my PS2 back on Friday. It has been broken for more than a year. I bought it on launch day (>4 years ago). The DVD drive went bad, and they fixed it for free.

  10. I get the "failed to load map" in Halo 2 by gss · · Score: 1
    I'm pissed that I've hardly even used my xbox and now that Halo 2 is out and I want to play I end up having to reboot my xbox every other game.

    Why don't they put the hard drive to use and copy the maps to disk? This would also have the advantage of faster startup times.

    1. Re:I get the "failed to load map" in Halo 2 by Quarters · · Score: 1

      It's against the XBox dev agreement to use the HD as an installation location. To be approved by Microsoft an XBox game has to run from the DVD. The HD is used only for downloadable content, save games, and streaming media.

    2. Re:I get the "failed to load map" in Halo 2 by gss · · Score: 1

      Considering Microsoft owns Bungie and Halo 2 is the flagship game for xbox, I think it would be smart to make an exception in this case. It wouldn't have to copy the complete DVD, just the maps. The game itself could and should still load from the DVD.

    3. Re:I get the "failed to load map" in Halo 2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were to 'mod' you box, you could copy the game to the drive yourself and play it from their. This GREATLY improves the load times...

  11. Microsoft is Reasonable by Tina+Russell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A class-action suit is unreasonable, as Microsoft has quite a history listening to consumer demands.

    Also, the common swine has special, winged appendages to assist in aviation.

    (I'm not saying the polite request isn't a good idea; I'm just not saying it's worth taking the class-action suit off the table as the author advises.)

  12. Riiight. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ahaha, yeah, that'll work.

  13. polite, respectful way is the future! by tasinet · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who's in to start polite, respectful requests for everything Microsoft has done wrong?
    Visit my polite, respectful requests for Microsoft web list:
    http://www.couldyoupleasemakewindowsopensou rceandu ndergpl.com
    http://www.pleasedontovertakethemusic marketandkill theipodforbulkyshittyplayersthatcrash.com
    http:// www.maywehavesomestabilityonourcomputerskin dsir.com
    http://www.......
    this is like a christmas list.

    Well, get real. There are more chances that Santa Claus is answering this one than Santa Billy.

  14. Request Denied by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They'll never do it...not until the court case is over. if they volutarily fix your dvd drive without charge before the case is over, it will be used in the case as an admission of guilt and they will loose the case. Keep dreaming.

  15. Don't Knock the Class Action Suit by buxton2k · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't want to knock your plan, but I had a comment regarding your view of class action lawsuits.

    The real function of a class action suit in our society is less to get specific remedies or compensation for the class of people wronged, than it is to increase the cost of harming people for the company.

    In other words, yes, the lawyers will be the biggest winner out of the trial itself. But the overall cost to Microsoft will be very large - that is, legal fees, bad publicity, and the cost of whatever the punishment (assuming they lose). Since they have to bear a big cost, they will be less likely to engage in similar practices in the future (theoretically), and thus consumers overall will be better off (even though you, specifically, may not be fully compensated).

    I know it's popular to bash attorneys (I am not a lawyer, nor a law student, nor employed in the legal field), and they will make out like bandits - but overall, they will increase the cost of treating customers badly, thus serving the public in the long run.

    1. Re:Don't Knock the Class Action Suit by Derkec · · Score: 1

      I agree with you to some extent. But to play devil's advocate here, others would suggest that a CA lawsuit of this type will merely raise the price of the next XBox and Nintendo and Sony will also have to figure in this kind of risk when they price the US versions of their products as well. MS might just accept this as the cost of doing business and raise prices.

    2. Re:Don't Knock the Class Action Suit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the pricing of the video-game system itself is the product of a competitive market. They NEED to sell for a certain low amount, else most people will buy the competing system. (Most people =, for the most part, non-Halo players.)

      Rather than lose sales, wouldn't they just spend the extra $1/box for the non-crashing DVD-rom?

  16. I'm much more impatient... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm buying a new Xbox at the end of the month to rid myself of this problem. Hopefully I'll get my free repair through the work of this site or the class action lawsuit.

    1. Re:I'm much more impatient... by Weeb · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the site will only work if you follow its instructions to call Microsoft and then file the BBB complaint.

  17. fixed my gamecube by madygoosey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I bought f-zero, the game kept randomly crashing, so I called nintendo and they said it was a known problem with a certain batch of systems. It was like a year after I bought it too, but they fixed it for free, I don't even know if it was under warranty. They just fixed it, fed-ex shipping and everything, it was awesome.

  18. Link to Sony Class Action Lawsuit Page by ShawnMcCool42 · · Score: 0

    http://www.geocities.com/techboi88/index2.html

  19. Extended warranty anyone? by Carch · · Score: 1
    See, people call me crazy, but this is why I *always* pony up for the extended warranty on electronics items like this. My first-generation xbox had this exact problem, and it cost me exactly $0 (well, $40 if you count the cost of the original 2 year extended warranty) to get a brand-spankin new one last year.

    Buyer's lack of foresight is not Microsoft's problem. Heck, EB had a trade-in deal last year where they'd give you $75 or $80 for your old box... that makes the cost of a brand new xbox less than the repair price, too.

    You have lots of options. Think ahead or think creatively!

    --
    _/\ - Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crud.
  20. Old skool suggestion... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

    A consumer action which, in a P2P network fashion, encourages other people not to buy a seller's products, no lawsuit required. Word rhymes with "roykott"...

    --

    Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
  21. Missing moderator option by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 1

    Why can't I label the post[er] "Jackass"?