Everquest 2 vs. World of Warcraft Comparison

GinoMGG writes "My Guy Games has an interesting EverQuest II vs. World of Warcraft series that includes an interview with a level 50 EQII player and a level 60 WoW character. The series also has a side by side shootout between the two biggest MMORPG releases in November."

Comments

Not Exactly the "Casual Gamer", then

[nijk]

level 50 EQII player and a level 60 WoW character

I dunno if I trust his opinion if he plays MMORPGs that much, sheesh.

Re:Not Exactly the "Casual Gamer", then

[Moonshadow]

I can't speak for EQ2, but levelling in WoW is pretty fast. There are people who have made it to 60 in 2 weeks real-world time (hardest of the hardcore, obviously) - the first 10 levels can be done in an evening. Blizzard has designed it so that even casual gamers can get to 60, and can experience the high-end content.

No Contest

[XxtraLarGe]

Since I've got a Mac, It'll definitely be WoW. Everquest 2 isn't available, and Everquest support for the Mac version was very poor.

Re:No Contest

[loquacious d]

I'd find a way to try it on your machine before you buy it if you haven't yet. WoW beta performance on my PBG4 1.5/15" (with 128 megs of VRAM, nonetheless) is wretched. I can't even quite reach 30fps indoors, at 800x600 (lowest supported resolution), with graphics turned all the way down.

The odd thing: none of the graphics settings (aside from the fog distance, which I have to keep low all the time, making the vistas much less scenic on my machine) even seem to affect the framerate by more than few per second, so I usually play at max graphics at 1280x854. I get 20-25fps inside buildings, 10-15 running around in the world, 5-10 when lots of characters are around. (I was completely useless yesterday when the bastard Alliance raided the undead city of Brill on realm 23. Death to all level 20 gnome mages who take me down in two hits!)

It's definitely playable (and fun, oh God how fun), but just be sure never to look over the shoulder of a PC-using friend or you will be overcome with framerate envy. (Not to mention the nice graphical touches that don't seem to be implemented at all in the Mac version.) Anyway, I am sick to death of game companies and their lazy, underperforming Mac ports. I retain hope that Blizzard will address Mac performance issues by the time the final is released, but not much.

Oh well. Macs just aren't gaming machines. This, combined with Counter-Strike Source and Myst IV not running on portable graphics cards (WTFWTFWTF, Cyan??) are making me consider building a cheap PC gaming rig. I think one of those, a Powerbook 12", and a nice big-ish LCD to share between them would make for just about the ultimate computing setup.

Re:No Contest

[k_187]

I think that's a problem with the mac client in general. I'm running on a 800 g3 ibook and its playable, but not really. if there isn't too much stuff going on its ok, but if there's a ton of people and/or mobs around it starts grinding. Of course, I also think some of those performace things are server side too. Have to wait until retail to find out really.

Re:No Contest

[NaugaHunter]

I'm running on a 800 g3 ibook and its playable, but not really.

You can try adding memory, but it isn't going to get better. From Requirements:

933 MHz or higher G4 or G5 processor.
512 MB RAM or higher. DDR RAM recommended.

I think it's playable with slightly less, but they are essentially covering their butts. I've been playing since April on a 1Ghz Powerbook with 512MB, and the performance is a lot better now. It still bogs down in certain areas, but is pretty good overall.

Re:No Contest

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a lot of issues with the OpenGL drivers on the Mac, as well. Blizzard ran into all kinds of crashes and incorrect results with pixel and vertex shaders, and had to disable them. Although those sound like eyecandy features, they also boost performance because the scene can be rendered in fewer passes and use hardware-accelerated skeletal animation.

Apple rolled some of the fixes into the latest 10.3.whatever update, but not enough to make a difference yet. Or that's the official Blizzard line, anyway.

Re:No Contest

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't be trying to play games on a Mac, period. Dicking around with Photoshop and rubbing your ipod in your crotch, yes, but games, no.

Re:No Contest

[k_187]

I've maxed the ram in here, so yeah it ain't going to get better, that's why I'm not planning on buying it. I've really enjoyed it, but it doesn't play well enough to be really enjoyable.

My take

[shaka999]

Well so far I think I like WOW better.

I'm in the open beta for WOW and bought EQII. At level 9 I'm already feeling like EQII is a bit of a grind. WOW just seems to flow better.

That said, I'll be playing EQ2 until WOW is released and who knows. Maybe something will change my mind.

Re:My take

[Naikrovek]

its possible to make eq2 feel like a grind. I found myself doing that just yesterday.

what I did was go around looking for things to do for people. Before long I had dozens of quests to do, and while I am aware that i'm actually changing nothing, helping the various NPCs has been quite enjoyable.

What I'm trying to say is that wandering aimlessly trying to get to the next level is much less fulfilling than doing favors for NPCs. You don't level as fast, but that was the whole point. you get decent rewards and have a feeling of accomplishment.

I'm going to stop levelling as a mage and start working on crafting for a while. It will be nice to make my own spells.

A laid-back attitude, foregoing the daily grind, the rush of life, and just doing what is interesting and helpful is the way to do it to have fun i think.

Re:My take

[realdpk]

Too bad quests don't have any impact on the world. Man, I would love to play a MMOG that incorporated that.

It's always so disappointing to complete a quest, realizing that everyone else before you already got the guy his "4 flasks of water" or whatever.

Re:My take

[AuMatar]

Then you ought to play WoW. All leveling in WoW is done through questing. I have yet to go to a random area to kill monsters- I'm always off on a quest of some sort. The quests all give xp rewards, which usually equal or dwarf the xp you make killing to finish the quest. Oh, and you can do crafting with mob drops and items you gather while doing all this.

Re:My take

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations on your purchase of Quests MMORPG! Because you got the game an hour after the first person did, all the quests have already been completed! Please enjoy killing some rabbits in the countryside.

Re:My take

[realdpk]

Heh, I'm not suggesting it'd be easy. But they could at least write the quests so it doesn't make it sound like you are some critical component to their tasks.

Then they could have some major, significant, unique quests. Have writers busy writing them all the time. Nobody would ever have a walkthrough to follow because the quest would only ever work once. If multiple people are on their way towards completing it, perhaps they could write up custom "secondary" prizes to handle that.

Man, that'd be slick. :)

Re:My take

[Harlockjds]

> Too bad quests don't have any impact on the world. Man, I would love to play a MMOG that incorporated that.

you mean something like a quest to unlock a new playable race? EQ2's got that.

Re:My take

[Chriscim]

The only way quests could have an impact on the world is if they designed GM sponsored events that did this. Can't think of any good examples at the moment, but I think I'm on the right track.

Re:My take

[Anonymous Coward]

They did something like this in FFXI once. There was a server-wide quest to kill large treants in many zones, with the reward being that everyone could use a teleport service.

Of course in typical Square-Enix fashion, the teleport service it granted you was totally worthless. But it was mildly fun while it lasted.

slashdotted

[Anonymous Coward]

The article link appears to be slashdotted. If anyone is somehow able to load it, please post the text.

sorry but..

[Turn-X Alphonse]

I have to say I don't care either way. I adore RPGs (a good 75% of my 1000+ game collection are RPGs). But I hate online RPGs, they are always full of people with the best equipment being jerks to everyone else. It's just no fun to play when you can tag along with some level 100 character who owns everything while you sit there going "...wow he's strong... I wish I had a super mega go go power rangers sword!"

Google Cache

[Sux2BU]

Here's Google's text only cache of the downed site.

I play both..

[Pengo]

And I find that both can have a place on a gamers shelf. One can't really be compared to the other, as they are both MASSIVELY different in scope and design.

WoW: Great game, fast paced, very simple to understand and navigate. My only grief with the game is that the character development can be quite cookie cutter. The talents are pretty liner, and there seems to be preferred path for PVP performance. WoW does at least have a plan for PVP. Though, it's not all implemented, it looks like it's going to be a lot of fun.

EQ2: MASSIVE world. Your put right in the middle of an epic-sized story that makes me feel as if I am a key part of the shaping of the world. The character development is quite profound, almost to the degree of Marrowind type games (though, not quite so flexible). I love this and it makes me feel that I am in control of my character and I can make something unique and interesting as I like him. The world is beautiful and I find it a pleasure to walk around and explore. I find that the death penalty is a bit rougher than WoW, and solo play is getting harder and harder at 13-14+. EQ2 has a really neat web-based character report. You can see almost all aspects of your character from the web site.

Here is mine:
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplay er.vm?c haracterId=111621109

All in all, I find them both a pleasure to play. I have spent the last few years playing another not-so-unpopular game with a very Realm-versus-Realm oriented aspect of endgame. I have found both of these games a huge upgrade over what I hvae been playing, and my wife might even play WoW with me which would be great. The barrier to entry to play previous MOG's where too great for her to feel like she was having fun.

I don't believe that casual or hardcore gamer types will be disappointed with either. Both of which would definitely give you the $50 retail value if only played for the 30 free days.

I will likely have accounts open on both of the games and try to divide my free time between them. I will let the game that has the best customer support, interesting game play and a company that cares about the long term playability of their game and not looking to make a short dollar today.

differences

[Ghent99]

Having been in the beta for both, I would have to say that there are particular things about both that I like and dislike:

World of Warcraft
* Like: Graphics, they are bubbly and cartoony and match all the predecessors perfectly.
* Like: Gameplay, as always, Blizzard has reduced the normal 'level-grinding' down to almost nothing.
* Like: Mobs are rated accurately. Finally a game where if the mob is rated as "even" to me, it doesn't actually kick my butt.
* Like: Raiding! PvP and raiding with a group of people who actually listen and pay attention can be extremely fun!
* Like: Guilds, they're easy to create and control.
* Like: Instancing.
* Dislike: Method of selling crafts. Currently, as far as I know, there's only 1 auction house on each continent, and no method for players to 'display' their wares.
* Dislike: The auction house. While it is pretty and easy to use, it's barely adequate for doing any real amounts of selling. Auction times are not displayed, no history of items, or how much they sold for, etc etc, all make it hard to determine what the 'going rate' is.
* Dislike: Lack of control over raid groups. At least give the ability for the raid leader to mute /moderate the damn raid chat channel!

Everquest II
* Like: Graphics, very sharp looking game, especially when you turn up the juice in the settings.
* Like: Crafting, crafting, crafting. I love the crafting in this game. You actually have to pay attention and it is worthwhile to do it!
* Like: Class subsets. I really enjoyed knowing that I could reach major leveling milestones and still have choices about the development of my character beyond the original class choice.
* Like: Boat travel, I loved being able to go to a lot of different places via boat, instanteously.
* Dislike: Flying travel. The griffons, when they were working, looked terrible, had terrible clipping, and seemed slow.
* Dislike: Inventory control. I know you need to get bags for inventory space, but sheesh.
* Dislike: NPC hunting. WoW has this too, but somehow it wasn't so bad in WoW for me. In EQII, it really annoyed me.

There's a few a put together. Ultimately, being a long time Blizzardite, I'll play WoW. I'm a big time crafter, so the decision was actually hard, but ultimately I have more fun playing WoW, and I've been waiting a long time to play it. Plus the extras in the collector's edition are going to be a real treat!

Re:differences

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG, Neeeeerrrrrrrrd!

Re:differences

[bconway]

You know the guards will tell you where an NPC is located if they're in the same quarter of the zone as the guard, right?

Re:differences

[Ghent99]

I'll assume you're speaking about the NPC hunting in EQ2. In the beta, they guards didn't know where anyone was (specifically quest-related NPC's). I understand that was to be their functionality eventually. I assume they do it now in the retail.

Re:differences

[BgJonson79]

Sentinals/ guards/ whatever in WoW tell you where useful NPCs are in town, too.

Re:differences

[Ghent99]

Yep :) As I stated earlier, I specifically mean quest NPC's. Not vendors, trainers, etc.

WoW

[Austerity Empowers]

I'm got in the WoW open beta, only level 15 so far, but it seems WoW is superior to every other MMOG I've played.

To start, it's actually fun. Like levelling up, that tedium in EQ you had to go through to get to where the real content is? Well it's like fun and stuff. Get this, you do quests, and most don't suck. You level up as a side effect of quests. Unlike CoH, you can actually (so far at least) solo all of the quests. There are tons of them, I have not run out (currently have 11 quests active). There are rumors of "elite" quests that require groups, but the one I had I was able to solo. I prefer to level up and quest alone, saving groups/raids for big events or RvR stuff.

Last night someone from the horde tried to attack us little night elves. I think it was a draw, they had levels on their side, but we had numbers. It was fun regardless. We're on a non-PVP server, which means it's totally optional whether to get involved with that or not, which I like. I didn't like the griefing and other crap in DAOC that you get from xp'ing in RvR zones. The PvP servers exist for people who like that, but I suspect that the non-PvP servers will be the more popular choice. If it's done right, the high level quests will lead you to want to kill the opposing faction NPCs, and draw you in to PvP. The bulk of the high level game will probably center around this. That seems like the way to go, and where I'd at least want to group/guild and spend time. It's a guess, but it sounds like it'd be fun.

The graphics are of course great, but so are CoH and EQ2. I think WoW has them beat in mechanics and artistry, but it's a judgement call. I think CoH landscape/pathing may be a bit better, but WoW complexity is much higher. I still play EQ for raids, and I have never been unsatisfied with EQ graphics so...

The tradeskill system seems decent. The system is similar but improved in mechanics from Horizons. You can't exclusively tradeskill, but to my mind that's not a rational plan for a fantasy/adventure game. It is TBD whether it is functional in terms of actually being useful to the game. No game has yet hit the mark on tradeskills except perhaps EVE, but EVE is a different type of game.

Raiding is still TBD. EQ in my mind is wearing the crown, it's unclear if it will be dethroned. If open beta ran longer, I'd probably be high enough to raid by early december (playing 3 hours a day mind you, in EQ it takes a year to do that). I suspect EQ mechanics will be better for a while, I think they'll end up having to tune WoW. It's supposition but I'm guessing that'll happen. Blizzard seems to have an eye on EQ for that judging by the competition going on, we'll see.

Anyway after EQ and the total disaster that was SWG, plus my limited but disgusted experience with EQ2...I'm giving that a miss. At this point I think I will be buying WoW. The most important criteria I have is that it seems well thought out, and the developers want the game to be fun above all. Most MMOGs miss that completely, or have only one or two elements that are fun (like say, raiding or RvR), while the bulk of the game is boring.

$.02

Re:WoW

[Quikah]

Just curious, but what elite quest did you solo and what class/lvl were you? The 2 I tried (human bandit and dwarf wendigo both around lvl 11) I was trashed pretty quickly. I couldn't imagine being able to solo those unless you were several levels above the level the quest was intended for.

Re:WoW

[Achoi77]

There are tons of them, I have not run out (currently have 11 quests active). There are rumors of "elite" quests that require groups, but the one I had I was able to solo. I prefer to level up and quest alone, saving groups/raids for big events or RvR stuff.

They aren't rumors. I've gotten my first 2 elite quests this past weekend. You can tell the difference because in the quest log it'll actaully say "elite" in the entry. The ones that I've gotten so far were from 'linked' quests which I've completed to recieve these quests. Incidentally, the two elite quests I got involve the same location, however one takes place at night only, the other takes place during the day. So I will not be able to finish both quests in one sitting. I've been to the area before when I was exploring, and my party and another got rocked. We can tell it's not going to be easy. But the end items look attractive enough for me to try untll we succeed. :-)

Re:WoW

[Austerity Empowers]

I'm a Night Elf Priest, the quest was in Tendrassil (sp?). You're correct, I was several levels above the quest.

The quest is described here:
http://www.thottbot.com/?q=2933

I was level 11 when I did it, which is well above the level most people would find it (probably level 6-7). At level 10 I gained a number of new offensive spells, which is undoubtedly why I was able to win. I was about to move out of newbie land, and was just intentionally trying to find missed quests. It was a real hard fight and I barely won. I was not sufficiently overpowered that the xp/loot reward was useless tho =)

My feeling is elite quests should not be soloable (for the intended level), but all non-elite quests should be. I have found only one regular quest that can't be soloed at the intended level so far (http://www.thottbot.com/?q=6614) as there are simply too many bad guys around the target and I can't kill them all before the respawn. I haven't retried since level 13, but I suspect when I reach level 16 I will be able to finish it.

So far though that's the exception rather than the rule.

Re:WoW

[PedanticSpellingTrol]

The first one human characters, and maybe some adventurous gnomes & dwarves that head south, will run across is most like Hogger. He's an 11 Giant Knoll along the border of Elwynn Forest and Westfall, you can get the quest from the wanted poster in front of the tower by the bridge. He was still fairly tough for my group, which was a 14 Mage and 12 Paladin

Re:WoW

[MachDelta]

Last night someone from the horde tried to attack us little night elves.

OK, either this is a really small world, or a very large coincidence. Last night I (my Orc Huntress) was involved in a Horde raid on Alliance territory. It was retallation after a Night Elf somehow managed to sneak into our newb zone. Server was Test29 (MTN zone), so either that was the same raid... or lots of good greenskins all over the world had the same idea that night!


PS: I love this game. Never actually bought an MMO- before, despite beta & stress testing a whole ton of them... but WoW has me fucking hooked like a heroin addicted prostitute to her sugar-daddy.
Blizzard > Me.

Re:WoW

[Austerity Empowers]

Coincidence I'm afraid.

Test 36 EST. I don't exactly know what prompted the battle, all I know is I was trying to keep up with some morlock respawn so i could inspect some washed up carcass, and then all kinds of people ran by me killing each other. Shortly thereafter 3. - Local Defense became active with "strategies".

"Strategies" included getting everyone 11-23 (our highest level I guess) to the druid grove. Dying shortly thereafter to one of the aforementioned morlocks, I had the occasion to wisp back to my body and examine a huge number of dead people near the druid grove =)

After that I joined up, but this conflict was like the initial RvR conflicts in DAOC. Massive zergism, no strategy, and no goal but fun for what it was.

I hope to see later on a real goal in attacking opposing faction NPCs, and a similar goal in protecting them. Otherwise PvP will probably never truly be anything other than an oddity.

The interviews would have been valuable

[Dusabre]

if the interviewees were capable of making coherent replies to the questions asked. I was expecting them to switch to 1337 at any moment. The WoW interview was the more painful, a sentence would contradict the one before and after it.

This is not a flame or troll, RTFA. There's valuable information in the interviews but these gamers lack the ability to express themselves and transmit the information...

Re:The interviews would have been valuable

[Rocky1138]

So which was it: Were the interviews were valuable or no? knyuk knyuk

Fools, all of them

[The-Bus]

What? I won't stand this unfounded adulation towards these "Dark Elf Shadowknights" and what have you. Let them match their worthless warriors against DocutronXP, my level 48 Hunter Strangler, hailing from the Land of Enchantment & Good Prices on Leather Sofas. You have never met a more brave and stunning Enchanted Motorcycle. Foes cower at my Level XXXVIII Clever Fellow. Those not vanquished by my level XXII Lockjaw will succumb to the one-two punch of my level XIX Animate Nightstnad and/or a Rabbit Punch from my +25 Custom Studded Titanium Gauntlets.

Re:Fools, all of them

[grammar fascist]

Come to Spoltog, wuss. My Demicanadian bastard lunatic will...do...something...nasty, I suppose...with his level CXXXII Slime Finger. You will cower as he curses your family (level V), and tremble with fear as you go under the knife for a tonsilectomy (level III)!

I love this game.

Re:Fools, all of them

[werelord]

You two are both wusses.. I mean, seriously.. Level 48, 56?? What, have you been making progress for only a month?? My Dung-Elf Tickle Mimic would wipe the floor with both of you, and then have enough time to do her nails with your lifeblood.. Her Seasick MMCCLXII will make you wish you stayed on shore, for sure!!

And not to mention that our guild Golden Rat Killers is one of the best around.. We are fast outdistancing all competition in the Bands list.. Roofed, I say, Roofed!!

WoW: soloing IS possible

[realdpk]

OK, I'll have to give it a shot now.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy playing with other players, but I got extremely turned off by EQ 1's group requirement for later levels because I spent literally days (multiple 1 hour periods totalling probably >70-100 hours) "LFG" (announcing and flagged).

Re:WoW: soloing IS possible

[Maserati]

My experience in the betas of WoW are that finding an ad hoc group for one tough boss or instanced dungeon is very easy. Now, finding GOOD players, like for Ragefire Chasm (go Horde !), isn't so easy. But if you can't find a group in short order either it's 4am in the server's local timezone or you've been a jerk on the channels.

Re:WoW: soloing IS possible

[will_die]

Would back that up, that finding a group is not a problem. Usally just go to where the quest starts and you can find a group of people you can join.
Not sure how this will work out come retail and people are more spread out in levels, could be a little harder then if you are not in the level range of the majority of players.
Also one other thing is that groups tend to just stay for the quest needed then they break up and everyone is out soloing again. A few times groups have stayed around but that was only because some of us had more of the same quests.

EQII For Me

[GinoMGG]

I'm not sure I want to watch a cartoon for hours on end and am going to go with EverQuest II's more realistic viewpoint on the RPG world. WoW looks sharp, but EQII takes everything the original did, and improves upon it. Both will be a hit, but EQII gets my nod.

Re:EQII For Me

[Anonymous Coward]

going to go with EverQuest II's more realistic viewpoint on the RPG world

Sadly, you probably don't even understand why that's funny.

Re:EQII For Me

[GinoMGG]

I know the choice of words add some comedy to it. In the end though, I would rather have realistic grpahics, than the cartoon flavor WoW offers. There is no realistic view of the RPG world aside from the one in your head.

expansion

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that the EQ player is fine with waiting for expansions to come out to "finish" the conntent that isn't there yet means I will not be playing. WoW for me.

Blizzards ex employees are the superior ones

[kc78]

I downloaded the beta completely excited about playing and was soon disapointed. Their ex employees over at arena.net are doing a much better job with guildwars than they are with WoW. This was a little side by side I wrote for a message board I post on. Game Client size: WoW over 2 and a half gigs GW 65kb Advantage: GW Client Download times WoW 32 hours GW 15 seconds Advantage: GW Graphics: WoW Decent graphics but nothing to write home about GW I'm amazed every time I look at them, all the way down to the tiniest details Advantage: GW Storyline: WoW so far the only story I've discovered is killing innocent mining kobolds GW not amazing but a pretty detailed story to follow Advantage: a slight nod to GW Sounds: WoW beautiful music, good voice acting GW beautiful music, no voice acting Advantage a slight nod to WoW but only due to voice acting Gameplay: WoW lag out the wazoo. If you looted something, you couldn't attack another mob for about 2 minutes, combat seemed boring, just a point run up to attack and watch the battle unfold GW strategy based skill system, fast paced tough battles Advantage: GW Stability: WoW I've already mentioned the horrible lag problems and as we speak the servers are currently down and have been for about 4 hours now with no eta of when they'll be back up. GW some lag problems and I've seen the servers go down once, but they were back up within minutes. Advantage: No contest, GW kicks ass here. Funness factor: WoW: I was bored and have no plans to even really go back except possibly during the beta hoping it'll get funner. GW: I'm addicted, I can't wait for the next beta weekend Advantage: GW Price: WoW monthly fee GW no monthly fee Advantage: GW As you can see, there's no way I'd ever pay a monthly fee for a game that's probably the best traditional mmorpg out there right now when GW is so much better and cheaper. GW is tons more stable and more fun and they're months from launch. WoW launches in about a week.

Re:Blizzards ex employees are the superior ones

[Austerity Empowers]

It seems your post has the bias of someone paying unduly close attention to Blizzard/GW politics.

GW and WoW/EQ2 are very different games. GW is more like Diablo 2, WoW is more like EverQuest. It would be like comparing Madden 200x to Mortal Kombat. At lease this is my take based only on beta-weekend and my experiences there.

I played GW only during beta weekend and had not heard of it before. It looks promising, my wife loves it, but it's certainly not ready for prime time. Let's give it a chance to brew for a while and forget about which developers left which company for reasons that none of us will ever know for sure. None of that is relevant.

Re:Blizzards ex employees are the superior ones

[Alban]

65 Kb, dude they really fooled you! Once you launch that small executable, then the real binaries are downloaded. And content is streamed as you zone. So, 65 Kb.... ummmm, not really.

How's the modification on client side?

[antdude]

In World of Warcraft, you can use CosmosUI to customize your GUI in game. It's very handy and can be overwhelming!

Can EQ2 do this modifications? I would love to check out the game without subscribing. I am hoping Sony will do a free trial, without credit card requirement, like SW:G trial.

Resisting the urge

[silux]

My name is Matt and I'm an evercrack addict. Yeah well thats pretty much what it came down to when one day I realized I had had 4 hours of sleep in the last two days and ate the last 6 meals in front of the computer. Then looking around the room at old pizza boxes and fast food wrappers my own odor bagan to bother me. This was the point where I decided I should probably stop playing everquest.

Now Everquest2 is out and I have to resist the urge, and not slip into my old habits.

WoW = Bass Avenger

[slaker]

I played techie-guru for a LAN party over the weekend, where five or six of the players were playing WoW (as a group, in the same room, which should have been really cool).

On the one hand it looked pretty OK graphically, but then I heard someone explain crafting, and how many X-random-pieces-of-crap he needed to find to make some baseline piece of armor. And the whole group was wandering around killing IIRC rabbits (like rats in every other MMO, I guess. Maybe they were Monty Python Vorpal Bunnies or something but everyone was attacking 'em).

And then... fishing.

At one point all six of these players were standing around a virtual lake throwing in their virtual lines and attempting to fish. And because they were newbies with no fishing skill, none of them could catch anything.

Pretty soon the other folks at the LAN party started calling the game "Bass Avenger", asking why the WoW players didn't just go buy Cabela's Varmint Hunter 4, and whether they'd really play a game that required them to stand around NOT CATCHING FISH. They pretty much had a better time with making fun of WoW and its players than playing CS:Source.

And I thought, "Man, that game looks really, really bad."

I don't play many games in general (I was at the LAN as a tech not a player - didn't even bring a PC of my own), but in talking to the folks who were "playing" I saw just how right City of Heroes seems to have gotten things: the guys who were playing were highly annoyed with the crafting and non-combat skill aspects of WoW, especially with the fact that for whatever reason they had to stand around fishing instead of fighting bad guys. Some people say CoH is shallow since fighting is about all you can do, but everyone I talked to said they'd rather be killing stuff than repairing their weapons or learning to mine.

I don't know what kind of person WANTS to wander all over Dwarf-Land looking for +2 Balls of Twine but from talking to the Diablo and Warcraft fans I met at that LAN party, it doesn't seem like much of Blizzard's fan base is going to appreciate the final WoW product.

Re:WoW = Bass Avenger

[Anonymous Coward]

You totally missed hte opportunity to kill squirrels, toads and sickly deer (you know, the ones that are walking but look like they were already hit by that semi-truck).

But fishing? That was kinda neat i think. Throw out your line, stare at the bob for a minute, wait for it to splash, and then click on it. Voila fish...sometimes. I thought that part was actually a step above EQ fishing.

Re:WoW = Bass Avenger

[NaugaHunter]

I've been in since April, and I can't think of anything the rabbits would drop that crafting requires. And if you weren't catching any fish, I'm guessing you were fishing in to high of an area for your skill level. It levels pretty smoothly in the right area. Though there are NO crafts that require fishing to level up with, so I have no idea why everyone felt they had to fish instead of trying to buy it from the auction house and didn't just go out and kill things.

I don't know what kind of person WANTS to wander all over Dwarf-Land looking for +2 Balls of Twine but from talking to the Diablo and Warcraft fans I met at that LAN party, it doesn't seem like much of Blizzard's fan base is going to appreciate the final WoW product.

Firstly, all crafting is voluntary and for fun. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it - there isn't anything crafting gets you that is required to progress that you couldn't buy off someone willing to spend the time. Secondly, the servers being overloaded from 500,000 trying to constantly play suggest you may have a very small sampling of Blizzard's fan base that doesn't scale to do projections very well.

The fact remains that MMORPG's are not for everyone, including some fans of previous Blizzard games. The general rule of thumb is if you wouldn't want to play a regular paper & pencil RPG, you probably won't like a Massive Online version either. It definitely sounds like the group you were watching is not the target audience, and the is nothing wrong with that on either side.

Re:WoW = Bass Avenger

[Edgewize]

Um, yeah. No quests are required, you don't have to learn fishing (let alone use it exclusively for long periods of time), and there is no quest that I know of that asks you to kill rabbits.

If you're not trolling, then the guys who were playing were either messing with you - or just total idiots. If some guy gives you a quest to fetch a ball of twine, nobody says you have to accept it. You can go on killing monsters and just do your own thing.

Crafting and non-combat skills are entirely optional, period. A lot of people like them. Some people like them /more/ than combat, so they are a prominent feature in the game. There are a few quests geared towards non-combat skills. There are also plenty of quests that ask you to kill things.

I don't know anyone who wants to wander all over Dwarf-Land looking for +2 Balls of Twine, either. A game that's like that sure would suck. It's a good thing that World of Warcraft isn't.

Re:WoW = Bass Avenger

[Pugio]

I have to disagree with you on all counts. Blizzard has a huge sense of humor and put fishing in the game for FUN!!! I have a friend who spends all his time fishing, not because you have to, but because it's cool. Fishing, by the way, is NOT just for fish, but for cool items as well. My friend just fished out a nice pair of boots worth good money on the auctions.

Another point is the crafting - it's fun and is a great way to break up the monotony of most MMO's; in which one spends the whole time camping a single location endlessly beating up on the same mobs that spawn time and again. In fact, the crafting system is the coolest part of WoW! Crafting is not just a way to get better l00t, it is an interesting pastime in and of itself. There are many quests to get rare and valuable items specifically for a craft skill.

As an example, with the Engineering/Mining skills you can make: Dynamite, Guns, Ammo, Defibrillator (for bringing people back to life), Land Mines, Bombs, and pet mechanical squirrels.

This game is amazing!!!

Level 50 EQII character?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuse me, but how the HELL has he managed to get a level 50 EQII character? Unless it was a beta character, and it's changed since then.

*wanders off to RTFA*

WoW is *so* slow

[Kris_J]

I played WoW from the beginning of fileplanet's most recent stress test and I finally gave it up two days ago. Everything in the game is designed to slow you down, to the point where you spend more time travelling over the same areas again and again than actually achieving anything. In fact I found no sense of achievement after probably 60 hours of gameplay. This might be a small amount of time for a MMOG, but it's a huge amount of time to burn in a few weeks if you already have a full-time job.

Re:WoW is *so* slow

[Snowpony]

It is slow if you are walking everywhere and don't plan things a little. There are various forms of transport available in the game which will help you get around all those quests a little faster and with a bit of scouting when you enter each new town you can usually find two or three quests that are after components/materials/monsters from the same area.

WoW is not an intensely complicated system. Blizzard has kept it simple which is perfect for the casual to moderately addicted MMORG player.

The most important key to remember is - there is more than just one class and race here; bored playing that 30lvl paladin dwarf? Go run around as a Tauran shaman for awhile. Sick of mining? Go do some leatherwork. Any game will get boring with constant repetition. There are plenty of other things to do apart from just bashing critters and raiding chests after all.

Re:WoW is *so* slow

[Kris_J]

There aren't enough choices for race, class and skills. Just when you think you've put together an interesting troll shaman with skinning and leatherworking, one of your friends rocks up with a better troll shaman with skinning and leatherworking. The character development is so linear that I am frequently reminded that I'm one of many people all mindlessly doing basically the same thing. There's no way I've found to do anything truly unique and interesting. This basically just turns the game into a race to see who can become the most powerful the quickest.

"You must go on a deeply spiritual quest to a hidden cave, just follow the trail of other players going to the same cave."

WoW = "Playable if you want to still have a life"

[dporowski]

In the open beta, liking it quite a lot so far.

I'll be honest and say I've avoided MMORPGs until now. Frankly, I don't WANT to spend all weekend staring at a computer screen waiting for some bit of loot to drop.

Probably... Oh, 18, 20 hours of play in. Maybe less. And I'm at level 13, and haven't noticed the grind effect, and am making progress in the game without having to give up things like "girls" and "job" and "bathing".

It's just fun, and I don't have to make a second job out of it, or start dating it.

(Though I will note that those nice Blizzard boys really do need to get out a little more. Those night elf female characters... Er... That ain't right.)

Fanboi much?

[pat_trick]

You're compararing apples and oranges here. Guild Wars is meant to be a very light client that streams updates to the user's computer. World of Warcraft is supposed to be purchased from a store and installed from a CD/DVD drive (depending on version purchased), not downloaded from the internet. The key thing here is that WoW is in a BETA. Your after-beta mileage may vary.

The lag was particularly bad this past weekend because they took down a large chunk of the WoW servers to do maintenance, as you mentioned. Once again, I state that this is a BETA. The one time that I was able to play in the Guild Wars stress test during E3, it was lagged to hell and back again also, but I didn't judge the game by it, because it was a BETA.

I could go on. Perhaps the only solid point you have is that WoW has a monthly fee, whereas GW will not. It's hard to make sound judgements on a game until it is actually out the door.

Advantage: I'm going to play both and enjoy them regardless, because each game is unique and brings something to the table that I'm going to enjoy.

Re:Fanboi much?

[will_die]

The key thing here is that WoW is in a BETA.
So is guild wars, and it will probably not be released until feb of next year. WoW will be playable by this up coming weekend, not much is going to change between now and then(1 major patch) so if you don't like WoW now not much chance it is going to change.
Also GW will ship on CD, that is how they are going to make money. They are going to be releaseing a few expansion packs a year on the basis that they will make thier money selling thoses instead of the monthly fee.

Re:Fanboi much?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Actually, WoW won't be playable this weekend as it doesn't launch until Nov 23.

Blizzard announced this weekend that the open beta is not just an opportunity for players to play free (which many seem to think it's all about) but an opportunity for Blizzard to continue stress testing their servers. They are intentionally running the servers with twice as many players as they will have post launch. Lag will most likely be bad on launch day (but it is for *every* MMORPG on launch/patch day) and will be gone within a day or two.

Re:Fanboi much?

[will_die]

While the official date is the 23, boxes are already shipping to resellers.
Have not seen anything on when the open marketing is going to stop and they are going to take down the servers, wipe them and put them back up.(I presume they are still planning to do a wipe of characters for retail) However based on other MMORPGs that will usally happen on Thursday or Friday, and the servers will be up and running by Sunday.
What happens is that stores "accidently" sell copies to friends, store employees, in addition to friends of the game devs,etc. before the actual release and they start to play. So come the offical release date you can expect to see a bunch of level 20+ characters already on the servers.
I don't see them doing any different with WoW, however they could be the different one if you go by what happened with half-life 2, but thier was alot of politics with that so I don't think VU will do the same with WoW.

Re:Fanboi much?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

Opening the servers prematurely to a select few would be a PR disaster. People may not be able to get the guild name they want because someone who knows someone who's brother knows a guy got them in early, etc.

From everything I've seen in or about WoW so far, I can't believe Blizzard would allow that to happen.

Just like with Half Life 2, you might be able to buy a box early, but until the magic server genie says you can play, it's just a box with pretty pictures on it, not a game.

I am more interested in....

[space_jake]

Whatever Blizzard's next project is. I'm praying that it is Starcraft 2 but with Ghost in the works I have a feeling that it isn't. Perhaps an exciting new franchise.... In any event I think I'm going to sit this round out. Played EvE online last summer and that pretty much did me in for MMORPGs. Great game with tons of combat and non-combat options just the grind is too much.

Fishing can be useful

[AHumbleOpinion]

Fishing can be done as a diversion, a gag/joke/etc, but I have also found it to be useful for feeding "pets". Feeding your pet improves its morale/loyalty and this significantly increases its fighting abilities. It originally took about 10-15 minutes to get the fishing skill to the point where I can reliably catch fish anywhere I have tried.

Your post is simply an example of the blind leading the blind, assuming it is not a troll. Now there is nothing wrong with not being an expert in the game and your appraisal of yourself as someone who doesn't play many games is probably a healthy and wise attitude. However you may want to keep a more open mind when you are ill-informed. I've found many of my own initial ill-informed opinions to be wrong and had a great time learning how wrong I was. Good luck with whatever games/hobbies/diversions you choose to try.

Good article, but I thought I'd add some stuff

[OnyxRaven]

My Article on EQII.com goes over a few points I would like to discuss further about the MyGuyGames article - I know I may be a little biased towards EQII, but I think I give a fair bit of merit to WoW, which is a great game in its own right.

I'd love to see the same type of article from a WoW enthusiast if there are issues I misstated or the article misstated. I think these types of articles are pretty interesting, even if they're ultimately just excersizes in preaching to the choir... Its easy to get locked into one of these games and think everything else is crap, and I think its only fair to give all the games their due attention.

Neither

[Lord_Dweomer]

I am a MMORPG vet, having been a MUD vet way before that. I have beta tested almost all of the current mainstream offerings and played a few of them after they went retail.

Now before I begin, let me say I absolutely love Blizzard, and have nothing but good things to say about them, and had pinned all my MMORPG hopes on them for WoW. I had become jaded from the "skinner box" gameplay of pretty much EVERY SINGLE MMORPG out there.

What did I discover? That WoW was that same skinner box model, with gameplay reminiscent of EQ1, just at a faster pace. I honestly wasn't that impressed. And its funny because when I ask people how WoW is different from EQ, all they can usually muster is "but....but...its in the World of Warcraft!"

I am enjoying the WoW beta test, but I will never drop money for that game. If I buy any of the new MMORPGs, it will probably be Guildwars since I hear you don't need to pay a monthly fee, plus the gameplay was even faster paced than WoW. Almost no travel time (even within cities), absolutely BEAUTIFUL world, and their instanced adventure system was fun. Plus the gladiator arena was a blast.

I dunno, WoW just kind of reminded me of that painting someone did once where they interviewed people on what they'd most like to see in a painting, took the average of the results, and painted that. Problem was nobody liked it because it was too normal/boring. WoW took all the best elements from everything out there and did the exact same thing. Nicely put together, but nothing out of the ordinary in any way whatsoever.

Slow is relative.

[MachDelta]

Trying to powerlevel is missing the point of WoW, IMO. I know I got stuck in the "this sucks, im just doing what everyone else is doing" mood too, with my first character. So I started a second one, determined NOT to do what everyone else was doing. So instead of going to random caves in search of random quest items, I just go wherever the hell I want to. If that means wandering 10 miles off into the distance because I saw a really cool looking cliff, then i'll do it. I'll temporarilly abandon a quest in mid hunt, just to swim up a river and see where it comes from. I'll chase critters around the plains and skin their hides simply because I can. I'll jump off waterfalls for fun, swim along the coast until I find the perfect peacful fishing spot. I ran around a forest the other day for hours on end solely because I wanted a bear for a pet (and I found one too). I'll randomly group up with people just to do whatever they're doing for quests (as opposed to what I "should" be doing). I'm just exploring and soaking up the universe now. And let me tell you, the game is SO much more fun that way. Rather than trying to "win" the game, i'm just basking in it. Its the freakin World of Warcraft after all! I've wanted to run around in it since I played Warcraft 1! Why treat it like some ordinary hack'n'slash when there is SO much to see and do? Its not a game of numbers - its a work of art. Thats the beauty of WoW IMO. And thats why i'll be subscribing. :)

Re:Slow is relative.

[Kris_J]

The problem with wandering off is that if you get attacked (particularly if something spawns behind you) you're dead. No matter how picturesque an area is, if it has level ?? monsters, don't even bother walking through it, unless you're curious as to how it looks in black and white.

If characters could speak

[Gamelore]

"My Guy Games has an interesting EverQuest II vs. World of Warcraft series that includes an interview with a level 50 EQII player and a level 60 WoW character..."

Interesting indeed...

part of the article

[Anonymous Coward]

EQII vs. WoW Part I: Level 50 EQII Beta Interview
Monday, November 08 2004 @ 12:05 AM - Mike Mikucki
With EverQuest II being released today and World of Warcraft coming out on the 23rd, it's a tough decision for many people on which MMORPG to devote to. We decided to chat with high level players from both games to see which one will be more appealing in the end-game. In our first part of this series, we sit down with EverQuest II player, Wrytched, a level 50 Dark Elf Shadowknight from the Beta 1 server.

EQII vs. WoW
Part I: Level 50 EQII Interview
Part II: Level 60 WoW Interview
Part III: EQII & WoW Comparison
Part IV: EQII & WoW Final Comparison

MGG: What was it like building your character? Did you feel like it was a grind?

Wrytched: Different stages of the game are definitely a grind. There's really no way to avoid it. You have to kill countless creatures to gain the experience necessary to level. Early on in the game you move quickly. They want you to be acclimated to the basics of your class/subclass. After about level 25, the game seems to slow to a much more natural pace. You continue to grow and learn and discover new aspects of the class you play. The largest part of the experience comes from the interaction of the players around you. This is in no way, a solo player's game.

MGG: Tell us about the coolest thing you have seen or done in the game thus far?

Wrytched: The coolest thing... I would have to say the discovery. Beta is an exceptional time. Working closely with developers to make a game better, and to see that your input really does make a difference. It doesn't get any better. Most games are spoiled very early on by websites, game magazines, etc. Right now everything is fresh and exciting. As you make your way through the game, you can't help but lose yourself in the surroundings. The game is gorgeous, at all levels. Anyone who foolishly races through the levels will regret doing so. In short, the graphics are absolutely astounding.

MGG: What is your favorite area in the game? What quest or dungeon did you enjoy doing most?

Wrytched: It's very difficult to choose a favorite part of the game. Isle of Refuge is an incredible introduction. As you make your way through the commons (as an evil race), there's the initial feeling of fear and excitement you had in EQ1. When you venture out to zones far from home, you feel like you're really on an adventure. Passing through Nektulos Forest and Thundering Steppes, there's incredible zones like Stormhold and Varsoons. Everfrost is amazing; the snow squalls can be blinding at times. But each zone i've explored has both graphic beauty and rich content.

Some of the access and heritage quests are incredible though. To gain access to the Enchanted Lands, you need to battle several waves of creatures aboard a ship.

MGG: Any dragon raids yet?

Wrytched: I missed the Vox raid.

MGG: What was the worst part to gaining the highest level (50)?

Wrytched: I can't answer that really. It wasn't long ago that the game changed so dramatically. Within the last two weeks, so many skills and abilities were redone. I would be lying if I said I got to 50 on my own.

MGG: Do you play any other MMORPGs, and if so, how do they compare to EverQuest II?

Wrytched: I only played EQ1.

MGG: Is EQII a big improvement over EQ1?

Wrytched: They're vastly different. There's enough in the game to remind you of the old world. I think it's an incredible improvement.

MGG: Are you planning on playing the retail version of the game, or is most of the thrill gone?

Wrytched: I will play. I'm sure there will be a lot of surprises when the game goes live.

MGG: Do you plan on playing another Shadowknight in retail? If not, what do you plan on playing?

Wrytched: I do, though I am extremely disappointed with them in their current state. It seems that once again Warriors (in this case, Guardians) are the only desired tan

WoW is evolution, not creation

[Jaeph]

If you're expecting WoW to be radically new and different, don't bother. It's not.

WoW takes parts from many established games and incorporates them into this one. You can read other reviews for the details, but just two minor examples are FFXI's auction house and object links in chat like AO.

One more subtle item that distinguishes WoW. though, is more complete characters. Most games make it a point to cripple their classes so they almost have to group together to progress. In WoW, most classes fill a role yet somehow don't feel crippled. For example, you can play a warrior who's supposed to take damager, but he also can do damage, limited CC, and heal (with first-aid) so soloing isn't that bad.

-Jeff

P.S. Numerous reviews of EQ2 that I've read say that soloing becomes effectively impossible after 20 or so. I won't play a game where logging in for an hour and doing something useful is not an option.